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Author Topic: What makes a sabersmith a sabersmith?  (Read 3965 times)

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Offline Darth Chasm

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What makes a sabersmith a sabersmith?
« on: April 07, 2018, 03:22:58 PM »
I’ll preface this with the following:

Please be civil, mature, and mind the forum rules. This should be an intelligent conversation.

———————-

Ok, now that that’s out of the way. We’ve seen a great influx of newcomers in the hobby over the past few years. Heck I was probably one of the ones in the first wave. The term “sabersmith” comes up a lot. Especially in FB groups. I think it’s used a little too loosely in my opinion. And people using it don’t really know the difference between a smith and non Smith.

So what are your thoughts? What makes a sabersmith a sabersmith? Can a non pro (hobbyist) be considered a smith? Or is that reserved for the pros (full-time job to feed the fam). Can a smith be an installer and not a fabricator or vice versa?

Let’s hear what you have to say. Remember keep it to discussion only. No flaming, bashing, arguing. If it’s starts to go astray,I’ll request the mods to lock faster than Rey learned how to use the Jedi mind trick.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 03:24:42 PM by Darth Chasm »

Offline Jediseth

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Re: What makes a sabersmith a sabersmith?
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2018, 05:10:41 PM »
I see this hasn’t been responded to and it’s been some time so I will.
 I feel like a real smith needs to produce his own hilts from raw tubing and sell his sabers. An installer is just that.  Solo’s Hold is a Smith. I won’t feel like a Smith until I get to that point. MHS builds, not really. I can see myself getting there and becoming a Smith.  This is only my seventh month playing with this stuff so I’m not there yet, but I will.  I guess the term is really up to interpretation, but that’s what I think.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 05:28:18 PM by Jediseth »

Offline jbkuma

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Re: What makes a sabersmith a sabersmith?
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2018, 05:34:31 PM »
There's arts and crafts and then there's art, and there may be a blurry line somewhere in there but in most case it's pretty clear. There's also nothing wrong with that. Everyone should enjoy the hobby to its fullest.

Ground floor is at least shaping metal and/or writing code.  Smithing implies a high level of artistry and craftsmanship. Volume isn't really a factor to me, bulk production is something else.

Offline Darth Chasm

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Re: What makes a sabersmith a sabersmith?
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2018, 06:17:20 PM »
I didn’t really say what I thought :)

I think originally it was a title given to those that proved themselves in several different aspects or sabering awesomeness including research, design, development, artistry, technique/craftsmanship, wiring, safety, customer service and so on.

In my mind that still holds true

 Let’s keep it going. Maybe some of the long timers can chime in with some education for us younglings.


Offline bombarta

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Re: What makes a sabersmith a sabersmith?
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2018, 06:22:33 PM »
What Aaron/SH does right now is manufacture in bulk as does Korbanth and a few others although Korbanth doesn't di the machining like Aaron. And Aaron would be the first to say that's not smithing, Aaron is a trained machinist who knows his CAD from his elbow, Smithing is what Aaron/SH did when he first become prominent and he moved away from it as it's so time consuming, but he's always beeen a machinist and will be even if he stops doing saber runs. Harp, RO, Greenie, and people that do one off sabers, they are Smith's as they create, although I would term Harp more like an artisan than a smith.
Installers are installers, just because you can drill a hole for a blade retention screw, tap a thread and use a 3D printed chassis designed by someone else and purchased from Shapeways doesn't make you a smith.
Designing, and making from scratch even if it is mhs is a smith, be that part time or taking commissions for it. And there's nothing wrong with using MHS either it's quality tubing and material, plus once you put it under a mill or on a lathe it then becomes custom and a one off plus you've saved a ton of time getting a perfect surface and boring it out, and saved a ton of electricity too.

This was a commission and a one off from scratch using MHS parts and took a lot of work by hand and on my lathe. So I'd say deffinatly smithed.

I don't know, i gotta bad feeling about this!
       

Offline K-2SO

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Re: What makes a sabersmith a sabersmith?
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2018, 06:30:59 PM »
Lecture time...

A “Sabersmith” is a person who is good at designing, creating and competently installing electronics into said designed hilt.

A Sabersmith DOES NOT NEED to be able to create something from raw material or tubes (I.e. need a lathe, mill, etc). Several excellent Sabersmiths have and may still use MHS stuff as their “base”, and that is perfectly fine. The fact that you may not recognize the pieces once the hilts are done are a testament to the individuals “artistry”..

Jbkuma is right that volume isn’t necessary to become a Sabersmith, I happen to know a few excellent Sabersmiths, who don’t build much, or build for profit, but have both won multiple awards and contests. People have seen their work and gawked appropriately (and yes, their works are posted here on the forums). However, one name is fairly well known, while the other is not (partially by choice). And I (and several others) also know who actually coined the term Sabersmith way back when.

An installer is basically someone who will put electronics into any of the myriad of empty hilts floating around out there like (Korbanth’s and others). Conversions also fall into this category in my view, because barring any major metalwork, it’s just a gut and re-install.

To echo what Bombarta said, Solos Hold is classified as a “machinist/manufacturer”. He basically machines empties and others do the installations, which is fine,

Yes, there are many people who crop up on FB and hang their shingle, because that is the easiest way to do it. But if someone is going to be serious, and wants to be taken seriously in this hobby, they have to put in the work, and Build their reputations.

What most don’t know, and/or probably don’t realize is that most of the OG Sabersmiths and a few others all know each other in real life and have for many years. We all watch, take notes, trade notes, etc. and periodically discuss people as necessary. The SABER GUILD here was established by several people to help establish standards or quality and conduct for future Sabersmiths to follow and aspire to. Membership to The Mining Colony is usually the first step on that road.

People think that because they hang their shingle up on FB, they’re just as good as anyone else, and that couldn’t be further from the truth. The saber community is a bit like a video game, there are several levels, INCLUDING some that fairly few know of. Those who really read and try to learn the hobby’s history may eventually stumble across clues to the levels of which I refer to. Like everything else, there are grey areas, and subtle differences but this is the general way of things.

I find your arguments vague and unconvincing.

Quiet! *Slap* And there’s a fresh one if you mouth off again.

Offline Jediseth

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Re: What makes a sabersmith a sabersmith?
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2018, 06:32:54 PM »
Well that’s why I’m a newbie. I guess I’m wrong, I’m a Smith.  😊 I do know one thing I’m an artist rather or not that pertains to sabers is debatable. 
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 06:37:20 PM by Jediseth »

Offline K-2SO

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Re: What makes a sabersmith a sabersmith?
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2018, 06:37:58 PM »
Well that’s why I’m a newbie. I guess I’m wrong I’m a Smith. 😊

Just taking stock part of the shelf and screwing them together doesn’t quite cut it. Good and interesting designs usually help you get there. “Newbie” and  “Sabersmith” also aren’t two words that tend to go together.

I see one of the Sabersmiths I mentioned is reading this, hopefully he’ll chime in with his pearls of wisdom.

I find your arguments vague and unconvincing.

Quiet! *Slap* And there’s a fresh one if you mouth off again.

Offline bombarta

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Re: What makes a sabersmith a sabersmith?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2018, 06:47:47 PM »
Well that’s why I’m a newbie. I guess I’m wrong I’m a Smith. 😊

Just taking stock part of the shelf and screwing them together doesn’t quite cut it. Good and interesting designs usually help you get there. “Newbie” and  “Sabersmith” also aren’t two words that tend to go together.

I see one of the Sabersmiths I mentioned is reading this, hopefully he’ll chime in with his pearls of wisdom.
Would that of been e57?
Don't see him much these days.
I don't know, i gotta bad feeling about this!
       

Offline K-2SO

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Re: What makes a sabersmith a sabersmith?
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2018, 06:49:23 PM »
Well that’s why I’m a newbie. I guess I’m wrong I’m a Smith. 😊

Just taking stock part of the shelf and screwing them together doesn’t quite cut it. Good and interesting designs usually help you get there. “Newbie” and  “Sabersmith” also aren’t two words that tend to go together.

I see one of the Sabersmiths I mentioned is reading this, hopefully he’ll chime in with his pearls of wisdom.
Would that of been e57?
Don't see him much these days.

Possibly  :angel:

I find your arguments vague and unconvincing.

Quiet! *Slap* And there’s a fresh one if you mouth off again.

Offline Darth Chasm

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Re: What makes a sabersmith a sabersmith?
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2018, 06:51:43 PM »
Lecture time...

A “Sabersmith” is a person who is good at designing, creating and competently installing electronics into said designed hilt.

A Sabersmith DOES NOT NEED to be able to create something from raw material or tubes (I.e. need a lathe, mill, etc). Several excellent Sabersmiths have and may still use MHS stuff as their “base”, and that is perfectly fine. The fact that you may not recognize the pieces once the hilts are done are a testament to the individuals “artistry”..

Jbkuma is right that volume isn’t necessary to become a Sabersmith, I happen to know a few excellent Sabersmiths, who don’t build much, or build for profit, but have both won multiple awards and contests. People have seen their work and gawked appropriately (and yes, their works are posted here on the forums). However, one name is fairly well known, while the other is not (partially by choice). And I (and several others) also know who actually coined the term Sabersmith way back when.

An installer is basically someone who will put electronics into any of the myriad of empty hilts floating around out there like (Korbanth’s and others). Conversions also fall into this category in my view, because barring any major metalwork, it’s just a gut and re-install.

To echo what Bombarta said, Solos Hold is classified as a “machinist/manufacturer”. He basically machines empties and others do the installations, which is fine,

Yes, there are many people who crop up on FB and hang their shingle, because that is the easiest way to do it. But if someone is going to be serious, and wants to be taken seriously in this hobby, they have to put in the work, and Build their reputations.

What most don’t know, and/or probably don’t realize is that most of the OG Sabersmiths and a few others all know each other in real life and have for many years. We all watch, take notes, trade notes, etc. and periodically discuss people as necessary. The SABER GUILD here was established by several people to help establish standards or quality and conduct for future Sabersmiths to follow and aspire to. Membership to The Mining Colony is usually the first step on that road.

People think that because they hang their shingle up on FB, they’re just as good as anyone else, and that couldn’t be further from the truth. The saber community is a bit like a video game, there are several levels, INCLUDING some that fairly few know of. Those who really read and try to learn the hobby’s history may eventually stumble across clues to the levels of which I refer to. Like everything else, there are grey areas, and subtle differences but this is the general way of things.

Well said. Best lecture I’ve had since 199... since college.

On the MHS thing, 100% agree. There is a fine line there however. Well maybe a few fine lines. And these are really just a retelling if what has been said already.

1. Getting MHS BH 2 pommel 7 emitter 18 body 5 some chassis parts and electronics and putting that together is one thing and that is not smithing. Smithing with MHS parts is another. Personally, my custom designs are all done by TCSS per my files that i design. I simply don’t have the accommodations for machines that can handle the size of exterior hilt parts or the operations that some of my design features require.

2. Let’s say you get the MHS parts I mentioned in #1 and cut a few grooves or paint a part and assemble it. That doesn’t necessarily make you a smith. It’s really a combination of some and maybe even all of the things I mentioned in my second post above. Wiring, engineering, design, safety, service. That all goes into what makes a smith.

I love doing one offs or maybe a few of one design. It’s a pretty great feeling to go from pencil and napkin to cad to real parts to oh crap now I gotta make it all work to holy crap it actually all works! :) such a great hobby. Sometimes it really does make you feel like you’re a real Jedi constructing your saber.

Offline Jediseth

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Re: What makes a sabersmith a sabersmith?
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2018, 06:54:45 PM »
Well that’s why I’m a newbie. I guess I’m wrong I’m a Smith. 😊

Just taking stock part of the shelf and screwing them together doesn’t quite cut it. Good and interesting designs usually help you get there. “Newbie” and  “Sabersmith” also aren’t two words that tend to go together.

I see one of the Sabersmiths I mentioned is reading this, hopefully he’ll chime in with his pearls of wisdom.

Ouch! Did you see my last build.  I guess I’ll just take the hit like a man. Lol

Offline Darth Chasm

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Re: What makes a sabersmith a sabersmith?
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2018, 06:55:00 PM »
Well that’s why I’m a newbie. I guess I’m wrong I’m a Smith. 😊

Just taking stock part of the shelf and screwing them together doesn’t quite cut it. Good and interesting designs usually help you get there. “Newbie” and  “Sabersmith” also aren’t two words that tend to go together.

I see one of the Sabersmiths I mentioned is reading this, hopefully he’ll chime in with his pearls of wisdom.
Would that of been e57?
Don't see him much these days.

Most definitely. He was and is still one of my sources of inspiration.

Offline K-2SO

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Re: What makes a sabersmith a sabersmith?
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2018, 06:56:45 PM »
And most of that is fine.

I’ve seen your work, and I’ve been watching Jediseth’s builds as well. You both seem to do good work from what I have seen so far. But like you pointed out, it’s more to it than just machining and installing a hilt there’s also the business side of things.

I find your arguments vague and unconvincing.

Quiet! *Slap* And there’s a fresh one if you mouth off again.

Offline K-2SO

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Re: What makes a sabersmith a sabersmith?
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2018, 06:57:45 PM »
Well that’s why I’m a newbie. I guess I’m wrong I’m a Smith. 😊

Just taking stock part of the shelf and screwing them together doesn’t quite cut it. Good and interesting designs usually help you get there. “Newbie” and  “Sabersmith” also aren’t two words that tend to go together.

I see one of the Sabersmiths I mentioned is reading this, hopefully he’ll chime in with his pearls of wisdom.

Ouch! Did you see my last build.  I guess I’ll just take the hit like a man. Lol

It’s a superficial flesh wound.... you’ll probably live.

I find your arguments vague and unconvincing.

Quiet! *Slap* And there’s a fresh one if you mouth off again.