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Author Topic: Saber combat tips - No Spin For-The-Win!  (Read 8404 times)

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Offline Daishi

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Saber combat tips - No Spin For-The-Win!
« on: March 20, 2010, 01:24:27 PM »
I made a blog for this so here is a link http://lightsaber-dueling.blogspot.com/ I decided to host it there just so its more search engine friendly and hopefully get more people into saber dueling ;p



For more Tips check out Jm419's Guide http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=23284.0
« Last Edit: April 03, 2010, 12:59:11 AM by Daishi »
Want  duel? Lets Roll some dice, anyone can win. ;p

Combat tips? See my Profile in the Website URL Area of my Profile. 
(or if you are lazy =D) http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=23280.0

Closest to RL Style: Jar'Kai with some of the principles of Soresu

Offline Dearth Breather

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Re: Saber combat tips - No Spin For-The-Win!
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2010, 01:56:50 PM »
*takes notes*  Many thanks. 8)

Offline Onli-Won Kanomi

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Re: Saber combat tips - No Spin For-The-Win!
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2010, 02:35:54 PM »
A couple of points:

1. Lightsabers are not [or rather, if they were real, would not be] swords. A lot of things sword users think about sword use WOULD NOT APPLY to lightsabers if they were real. For example "strike with the edge, parry with the flat" doesnt apply because lightsaber blades are omnidirectional cutting surfaces that have no flats, lightsabers blades don't have weight like sword blades, lightsabers do have a 'gyroscopic effect' that swords don't, lightsaber blades do 'lock' [rather their electromagnetic containment fields do] which sword blades do not [which is why lightsabers don't have nor need crossguards and swords do], lightsaber blades are essentially 'unbreakable' [rather self-renewing] which swords are not, lightsabers are essentially frictionless cutters in most materials even HARD material which swords are not [meaning that lightsaber cuts are almost always more damaging than 'giving point' many sword authorities incl R.F. Burton consider superior] etc etc etc

So when we see lightsaber use in the movies it should be remembered they are not swords nor because of that are they used like swords.

2. Lightsaber users are not [or rather, if they were real Jedi or Sith as seen in SW fiction, would not be] sword users. Even when they are nominally or near 'human' they are functionally SUPERHUMAN; specifically they are tactically-precognitive telekinetics. This explains WHY lightsabers would exist in the SW Universe in the first place; telekinetics can deflect the mass of matter weapons [or projectiles] so an energy or practically near-massless particle beam blade or projectile is necessary to hit them at all. It also explains why a lot of sword techniques would be useless when both combatants can 'foresee' simple direct strikes...'fancy' extended sequences of complex moves thus complicate the challenge of defending against them in the present while simultaneously foreseeing others in the future when both combatants have tactical precognition. Anyone who has experienced the more limited precognition that exists in our world and knows how CONFUSING seeing "two times at once" is can well imagine how confusing it would be to FIGHT in an advanced future form of such a prescient state, even with advanced perceptual/conceptual integration mental disciplines...Jedi/Sith TACTICS would be designed to exploit that potential for temporal-dynamics confusion of enemies anachronological or bichronological thought processing and thus be very different from human[oid, mostly] sword tactics in significant ways.

So when we see lightsaber USERS in the movies it should be remembered they are not [mere human] sword users nor that they would use sword technique like we would.

Combining these two factors accounts for why lightsaber use in the movies cannot be assumed to follow sword use 'rules' or principles.

IRL "no spins for the win" makes good sense...in SW lightsaber combat where one is trying to confuse a tactically-precognitive TK foe with many complex changes motion/orientation of an easily redirected weightless frictionless 360 degree cutting blade fancy spins may not be so useless eh?
« Last Edit: March 20, 2010, 02:58:42 PM by Onli-Won Kanomi »
To DREAM the IMPOSSIBLE DREAM. To FIGHT the unbeatable foe. To BEAR with unbearable sorrow. To RUN where the brave dare not go. To RIGHT the unrightable wrong. To LOVE, PURE AND CHASTE, FROM AFAR [-sigh-]. To TRY, when your arms are too weary; to REACH the unreachable Star!... This is my Quest; To follow that Star, no matter how hopeless, no matter how far...

Offline Jin Ke

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Re: Saber combat tips - No Spin For-The-Win!
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2010, 03:06:58 PM »
To follow on what OWK said, your points on "real life" swordsmanship are true....    These are lightsabers, a fictional weapon, that we collect for fun...  In most choreographed fights, the spins and flourishes are added for the perceived audiences amusement.   They want to see flashy moves with the "glowy sticks"   ;D  I wouldn't even attempt half the moves in a real fight...    The choreographers for the movies/shows understood this...    The way I look at it....  If you want to be serious, and have a no nonsense mode to your fight enjoyment,  go laarp/boffer....   

Offline Daishi

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Re: Saber combat tips - No Spin For-The-Win!
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2010, 03:25:26 PM »
@ Onli-won Kanomi

Your right, but again this is for IRL combat at cons or something. But I guess going around challenging people with light up swords sounds kind of silly on paper =p. (not to say I wouldn't do it =p)

Also this section on the forums dose it not say:

"Dueling with your Lightsaber
Want to learn how to duel with your lightsaber? Let the experts train you in the ways of proper (and safe) sword play!"
not that I would call myself an "Expert" but more someone who knows a tip or two that can maybe help someone out?

and its safe-ish since its a plasticy flexible-ish blade that you can hurt people with but won't if used properly

so I'll be fair and reply with the idea of an actual lightsaber and strategy.


IRL "no spins for the win" makes good sense...in SW lightsaber combat where one is trying to confuse a tactically precognitive foe with many complex changes motion/orientation of an easily redirected weightless frictionless 360 degree cutting blade spins may not be so useless eh?


First I want to thank you for acknowledging that this is out of RP.

Tactically trying to confuse a Foe with fancy is not by any means a new concept, and is something combatants should train against and learn to identify. (and eventually becomes a pointless strategy when you face more advanced people) the saber reacts as if hitting a solid object against another saber. Disrupting someone mid spin would still have similar effects as  if someone with a stick spins it and someone else hits it with another stick. That and spinning leaves a lot of openings in general, despite being a 360 degree blade. WITH THAT SAID! 360 degree blade would be a nice new advantage, (with the draw back on not being able to support your current blade with your other hand [yay dual wielding]) also as "light weight" as things get the lack of weight can be a disadvantage when spinning... its because of the force of impact and sudden recoil from nowhere after bouncing off another saber, a more weighted weapon would help with the knock back of the weapon if struck properly. Ultimately, I just feel in combat doing a lot of useless and fancy moves are redundant lightsaber or not. Maybe I'm wrong and it would actually not be such a horrible move. but other than a few new swings there is not much of a difference in the way it would be used, sure you can't parry with the flat or use the weight of the weapon against them but you can still parry with the side of whatever your current grip is, and can use the lack of weight against them.

"Eh?" Canadian perhaps? I am too <3~
« Last Edit: March 20, 2010, 03:40:51 PM by Daishi »
Want  duel? Lets Roll some dice, anyone can win. ;p

Combat tips? See my Profile in the Website URL Area of my Profile. 
(or if you are lazy =D) http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=23280.0

Closest to RL Style: Jar'Kai with some of the principles of Soresu

Offline Orakaa

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Re: Saber combat tips - No Spin For-The-Win!
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2010, 04:26:56 PM »
I think both viewpoints are interesting on this.

Indeed, if one were to perform a fight, you wouldn't spin you polycarbonate tubed lightsaber around but rather strike and hit, hard.
This is something I love in "Iaido" and the way samurai fight... but I would rather go for the fictional/flashy approach.
This is exactly the difference (in the duels) between the first and second trilogy. Although I still prefer the original trilogy as a whole, the lightsaber fights/choregraphy are more appealing to me in fights like ObiWan vs Anakin or Mace Windu vs Palpatine.

Also it looks more impressive when performed by "real" people. I'm no professional martial artist... but when I duelled versus my best man during my wedding party, I did some spinning and the illusion was perfect as the audience was just watching something that LOOKED impressive. If I had just fought as if we were wielding 2 wooden sticks to really hit each other, it would have been too static

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Offline Asazm

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Re: Saber combat tips - No Spin For-The-Win!
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2010, 04:50:31 PM »
Interestingly enough Daishi's points are pretty much in the instruction manual to form 3 (soresu) as far as i can tell
I have done some sword work myself and i agree that twirling around can be silly in a real fight, but it does look good on film.
Which is a lot of what star wars dueling is about i think.

Maybe that's why the only form i myself like is form 3. lol.

Hopefully this made sense... just got up fro 4 hours nap and spacy as xxx.

Offline Caine

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Re: Saber combat tips - No Spin For-The-Win!
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2010, 04:56:42 PM »
I almost want to say something...

But I am curious where this topic is going to go first.  ;)

Offline Daishi

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Re: Saber combat tips - No Spin For-The-Win!
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2010, 05:13:30 PM »
=p just say it, you might take it down yet another possible road ;p
Want  duel? Lets Roll some dice, anyone can win. ;p

Combat tips? See my Profile in the Website URL Area of my Profile. 
(or if you are lazy =D) http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=23280.0

Closest to RL Style: Jar'Kai with some of the principles of Soresu

Offline Jedi Knight Logan

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Re: Saber combat tips - No Spin For-The-Win!
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2010, 05:34:09 PM »
=p just say it, you might take it down yet another possible road ;p

Hello Daishi, which sword arts have you trained In?


"A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack..."

Offline Asazm

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Re: Saber combat tips - No Spin For-The-Win!
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2010, 05:37:35 PM »
thought about the "twirls" in the new trilogy... i am remembering something about a lot of those being things the actors (ewan mcgregor? specifically)  added in... NOT something that the choreographers planned?

anyone else know/remember something about this? how much twirling was SUPPOSED to be there vs how much was put in by the actors?


Offline Daishi

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Re: Saber combat tips - No Spin For-The-Win!
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2010, 05:45:00 PM »
Hello Daishi, which sword arts have you trained In?

I train in Kendo for my earlier years found it to much like a sport than an art. Than later on I did a bit of Iaido for a short but decent period of time, (mostly to learn to focus my breathing and my mind.) and now currently I'm doing Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu the art developed by Musashi Miyamoto, the person who trains us in our group trained directly under Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu's Soke. So I like to think what I've been learning is some what authentic =p and not just some club I randomly joined on the 2nd floor of some building downtown. With that said, I'm not that great or anything but I like to think I'm taking in some knowledge.

why did you quote me on my last post anyways? not that I mind just didn't think it was relevant to the question you asked.

and to Asazm I'm a Starwars fan but other than just watched the movies and thought about how cool a weapon a lightsaber is I don't know much about little facts like that.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2010, 09:58:03 AM by Daishi »
Want  duel? Lets Roll some dice, anyone can win. ;p

Combat tips? See my Profile in the Website URL Area of my Profile. 
(or if you are lazy =D) http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=23280.0

Closest to RL Style: Jar'Kai with some of the principles of Soresu

Offline Jedi Knight Logan

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Re: Saber combat tips - No Spin For-The-Win!
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2010, 05:59:44 PM »
Very nice, and as for the quote... I simply hit the quote button rather than reply. :)

Oh, and where are my manners... Welcome to the boards!
« Last Edit: March 20, 2010, 06:22:44 PM by Jedi Knight Logan »


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Offline LUMINARA UNDULI

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Re: Saber combat tips - No Spin For-The-Win!
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2010, 06:04:49 PM »
Hello Daishi, welcome to the forums by the way! ;D

FYI, we often use the quote button when replying so folks will know which post we are answering and sometimes it becomes habitual to quote the post we last read :)

Hope you are enjoying it here at FX-SABERS and thank you for your participation so far :D  Look forward to having you around :)
« Last Edit: March 20, 2010, 06:33:00 PM by LUMINARA UNDULI »



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Offline darth_call

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Re: Saber combat tips - No Spin For-The-Win!
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2010, 06:07:23 PM »
Very interesting read, well done.

Welcome to FX, Im sure you'll fit right in.