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Author Topic: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion  (Read 102681 times)

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Offline Goodman

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LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
« on: July 12, 2009, 09:51:02 PM »
Heh, I knew "15W" would attract some of you to read this :)

I'll post more info here including direct Luxeon-to-LedEngin photos as this thread evolves. In the meantime, here is a summary below.  Please feel free to add any questions, experience, tips, pictures, or general comments concerning LedEngin LEDs.


LedEngin LEDs

Recently there has been increasing discussion about LedEngin LEDs. Currently it isn't a widely used LED, but I think those who do use it would agree with me that in specific applications it certainly deserves your consideration when planning your next project.

LedEngin (available at www.mouser.com) produces a 5W LED that is mounted on a PCB star so is compatible with TCSS' lens/lens holders. The 5W's power requirements are similar to a Lux3 or Seoul P4, so most are "drop-in" compatible with sabers which use the popular MR/Hasbro soundboards. Despite using similar power setups, I have found the 5W green and 5W blue to be brighter than their Luxeon3/Seoul P4 counterparts.  I'll add pictures to this thread as it evolves and as always it is best to judge for yourself.

LedEngin also produces a 10W LED, which is comprised of four dies which can be wired separately, all still mounted on a standard PCB star. The 10W LEDs emit lots of light for their size (--on paper, up to 425 lumens for green...= to my eye in real life, VERY BRIGHT). There are many combinations possible for driving the 10W. All four dies in series with a buckpuck, 2-3 in series on a US with the other 1-2 on a buck, two in series on a CF and one on a clash/power extender, etc...




Pros of the 5W:

Reasonably priced ($7-10)
Mounted on a PCB star just like a Luxeon, so is compatible with TCSS lens holders, MHS blade holders, etc
Similar power requirements to Lux3/Seoul P4 LEDs (2.5-3.6V, 1000mA), so they're compatible with MR soundboards
Properly driven, the Green and Blues are brighter than their Lux3 or SeoulP4 counterparts
Available in green, red, blue, amber, etc
Stay away from the 5W red (the 10W is much better)

Downsides of the 5W:
Solder pads are very shallow and difficult to solder (better-than-good soldering iron is recommended)
Currently only available from www.mouser.com, and when they're out of stock, it takes 3-6 weeks to restock
A Lux3 Red at 1.5A is brighter


Pros of the 10W:
Bright and brighter!
700mA, can take 1A overdriven
The four dies can be wired separately (i.e., 5W off a CF w/ 5W clash, or 5W off a US w/ 5W buck puck constant)
RGGB available, for a fantastic purple
RGBA also available (perhaps a purple with amber clash)

Downsides and tips the 10W:
Same shallow solder pads as the 10W
Can get a rather pricey ($24-$40)
Require more power (9-14V depending on the LED), so more battery space is needed in your hilt
Accordingly, you need to split the dies in order to achieve sound, unless you don't mind having a very bright stunt saber (all four dies on a buckpuck)
The 10W are offered in two versions: one where all four dies are connected in series, and one where they are individual --make sure you buy the one you want for your specific goal)



Now, LedEngin DOES produce a 15W, but it is not mounted on a PCB star like what we're used to using. But don't worry, something is in the works... ;)
« Last Edit: July 13, 2009, 12:37:50 AM by Goodman »
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Offline Darth Matth

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Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2009, 10:19:09 AM »
Now, LedEngin DOES produce a 15W, but it is not mounted on a PCB star like what we're used to using. But don't worry, something is in the works... ;)
WHAOOOW Goodman, Good man!!!
Can't wait for what you have in store for us.



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Offline Onli-Won Kanomi

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Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2009, 10:38:00 AM »
*with single raised eyebrow*

Fascinating!

Looking forward to hearing more about "something is in the works" when you are ready.
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Offline wookieecrisp

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Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2009, 12:37:19 PM »
I'm excited for the 15w... ;D ;) ;)

Offline Jedi-relik

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Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2009, 03:46:29 PM »
Are you saying that the 5w are compatible with a hasbro economy board? Very interesting if they are because I have a few laying around and wasn't sold on the brightness they put out without using a puck or resistor...

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Offline xwingband

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Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2009, 04:05:55 PM »
Are you saying that the 5w are compatible with a hasbro economy board? Very interesting if they are because I have a few laying around and wasn't sold on the brightness they put out without using a puck or resistor...

I don't see where he says that...

Even so, a wattage alone doesn't mean much.  Why it gives no indication of brightness.  A soldering iron is generally rated by watts but it's giving no light off.  Also you have to supply 15W of power.  No simple task.

A lumen per watt is a much better number.

Offline Jedi-relik

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Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2009, 04:18:13 PM »
My understanding was that Lux 3's were compatible with eco boards and wasn't sure if the MR/Hasbro included eco-boards. Just trying to find a good use for the ones I have, without having to wire more things than neccessary ;)

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Offline Goodman

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Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2009, 04:31:06 PM »
No, when I said "MR/Hasbro soundboards" I meant the FX-level soundboards that were used in Master Replicas FX sabers and now Hasbro's FX versions (nearly identical). I did not mean the hasbro economy board...frankly I haven't tested a LedEngin 5W on one of those boards myself because I've never had one on my bench yet, so I can't say definitively that it can or cannot work. Each LED's specifications are listed on www.mouser.com. 'Hope that helps you.


And to reiterate what I said at the top of this thread, the 5W LEDs have comparable power requirements (voltage and current) as LuxeonIII or Seoul P4 LEDs, and so, at least I think, deserve being considered for MR/Hasbro conversions --just ask Allaerra and FenderBender, that's used some and I think agree with me make a nice addition to their LED options.  

The 10Ws, as xwingband and I said, require lots of power and as such essentially require a hilt to be built around the LED. The reason why I mentioned the 10W is because they can still be wired into a saber (MadHatter did it in his famous saber CF) if planned out properly, and because I believe it is always good to push the envelope.

Remember when a Luxeon Star O was the brightest LED around?

Change is good.

 
« Last Edit: July 13, 2009, 04:33:24 PM by Goodman »
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Offline KI-ADI-MUNDI

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Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2009, 04:35:15 PM »
I think I'd like to try a 5 W green in my up coming Quigon project....
   
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Offline Jedi-relik

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Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2009, 04:46:36 PM »
Worth a shot for me I guess, if it doesn't work, I can still make a pretty bright stunt ;)

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Offline Onli-Won Kanomi

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Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2009, 05:08:45 PM »
Jedi Relik since you say you have a bunch of Hasbro econo cards you are looking to use up the Cree LEDs might be a good choice for that application...they are reasonably bright at lower milliamps.

As for the 10W LEDEngin...

Goodman am I correct in understanding that with the 4 individual wiring kind of 10W LEDEngin they could be wired up in a combination of series and parallel so that an Ultrasound running at 1500mA with a 7.2-8.4 li-ion battery solution could run all four each with 750milliamps of current?
To DREAM the IMPOSSIBLE DREAM. To FIGHT the unbeatable foe. To BEAR with unbearable sorrow. To RUN where the brave dare not go. To RIGHT the unrightable wrong. To LOVE, PURE AND CHASTE, FROM AFAR [-sigh-]. To TRY, when your arms are too weary; to REACH the unreachable Star!... This is my Quest; To follow that Star, no matter how hopeless, no matter how far...

Offline Jasher Kain

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Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2009, 05:44:25 PM »
Do they offer the same range of colors (different bin #'s) as Luxeon Star?

Offline Goodman

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Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2009, 03:58:44 PM »
Alright, friends. 'Finally got some time to snap a few comparison pics. To me, the most misleading thing about LED saber pictures (besides the overexposure issue) is spillover of light when two blades are put side by side. Particularly with blades of the same color, simply putting them next to each other doesn't give an accurate sense of their brightness, because the light mixes with each other. So, my VERY rudimentary setup I used was to evenly space the comparison blades across a towel, and then use spare empty blades to create a uniform "dividing wall" between each comparison blades to capture the light emanating from them without spilling into the path of their neighbors.

All sabers were run with buckpucks @1A on fully charged batteries. Some tests were used with all UltraBlade thins, and some tests were used with all UltraEdges (to discern the actual color better). It must be noted that the Tri-Rebel used is a GGW...a GGG is even brighter. Also, the LedEngin 10W only has three of the four dies connected, so if it would be about 25% brighter than it already is if I were to wire up all four dies. I'll do that later when I get my powerextender and update the pics.


First up, the LEDs. From Upper Left to Bottom Right: Lux3, LuxV, Seoul P4, Tri-Rebel, LedEngin 5W B, LedEngin 5W G, LedEngin 10W RGBA, LedEngin 10W R.  Note how the Lux and Seoul LEDs have pretinned solder pads --these are easy to solder with a 2 second touch of your soldering iron. The LedEngins and Tri-Rebels, however, have very shallow solder pads so much care is needed when soldering. Note also the height and width increase of the 10Ws. Luckily, they still fit under a standard lens/holder with minor modification to the holder. Better lenses are coming soon... ;)



THE SETUP: Uniform distance and height to evenly capture the light spill from each blade.


UltraEdge BASE COMPARISON: LIGHTS ON  Top to Bottom: Luxeon 3, Seoul P4, LedEngin 5W. As stated earlier, the LedEngin is perfectly compatible with MR boards.


UltraBlade MED COMPARISON: LIGHTS ON
Top to Bottom: LuxV, MR L-ROTJ, Lux3, LedEngin 5W


ADVANCED COMPARISON: LIGHTS ON
Top to Bottom: MR L-ROTJ, LuxV, Tri-Rebel GGW, LedEngin 10W (only 3 of 4 dies connected) [**EDIT** the Tri-Rebel picture here is underpowered...look on my post on the next page to see the accurate comparison which shows it having equal brightness as the LuxV]


WALL SHOT: LIGHTS OFF This is one of my favorite shots. I put brand new E2 Lithium batteries in the MR L-ROTJ, and put it up against the LedEngin 10W, which only had 3 of 4 dies connected AND had nearly dead batteries.  Still, the LedEngin 10W is so bright that it casts a thick shadow against the MR. hahaha I thought that was neat :) With new batteries and all four dies connected, the 10W is so bright that it is impossible to tell if the MR next to it is even turned on or not!


« Last Edit: August 01, 2009, 05:42:59 PM by Goodman »
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Offline Darth Matth

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Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2009, 04:14:53 PM »
Wow Good man.
That looks VERRY clear.
I expected the tri-rebels to be MUCH brighter but they cannot compete against our old Lux V.
The LedEngine 10W, is there much difference between a Luxeon 10W or a LedEngine 10W in brightness and color, or is it the same?



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Offline Goodman

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Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2009, 04:23:57 PM »
Yeah, the Tri-Rebel GG actually looks closer to the LuxV's brightness in "real life", but the pics somehow show a larger difference. Though to be fair, the main reason why people buy the Tri-Rebels (besides color blending) isn't for max brightness, but for Clash Flash. If someone asked me to recommend a single color LED and had the pack to power it, the LuxV or 10W would be a better choice (this is more a function of the current optic setup with Tri-Rebels that doesn't allow for higher efficiency collection of light, as xwingband has stated). But as for an in-blade Clash Flash? ONLY the Tri-Rebel can do that, and trust me, the effect with a GGW looks amazing and is definitely worth the slightly lower initial brightness. Mind you, that "initial brightness" is still on par or better than a Seoul P4 Green, easily, so it's nothing to complain about since it's already bright.  ;) As with many things in life, different products for different objectives.

...and GGG would be brighter than the GGW pictured here (obviously).


Also, Luxeon doesn't make a 10W. Only LedEngin. The LedEngin 10W is the brightest LED I can cram into a saber so far, aside from the 15W I'm prototyping.



And before anyone asks, as time allows this month I'll be posting similar comparison spreads of Lux vs Seoul P4 vs LedEngin 5/10W using other colors, so sit tight. Red is next, then Blue, the RGB.




« Last Edit: August 01, 2009, 04:31:40 PM by Goodman »
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