fiduciary

Author Topic: Common issue with Prizm?  (Read 721 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline IceSaber

  • Experienced Force User
  • ****
  • Posts: 367
  • Midi-chlorians..
Common issue with Prizm?
« on: June 19, 2017, 07:36:17 AM »
Hi all, I'm posting here in the hopes of getting an informed reply. I've contacted Erv and he's not seen it yet and I've asked on a number of facebook groups with varying results.

Issue: when removing the kill key it briefly plays a electrical static noise before the boot sound. This also occurs when changing fonts. It's very brief but noticable.

Solutions advised:
1. Format SD card and use default files - Resulted in no change
2. Different speaker - Resulted in same issue
3. Kill key not wired correctly - I tried a separate external battery wired directly to the board with no change.
4. Re-wire board - I removed all wires except accent leds and speakers and it still makes the sound.
5. Use a resistor between the board and speaker - Tried a 1ohm resistor with no change.

So far the most informed reply has been from Shameem, who said that hes experienced this problem with almost all of his Prizm installs. I asked if there was a solution but I haven't heard anything back yet.

If this is a common issue, can I get a replacement board thats been tested or can this one be repaired? I'm in the UK. I'm curious why nobody else has said anything before and that would normally make me think its just a one off but Shameems comment makes me think twice on this.

Heres a clip
Prizm Issue - YouTube
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 07:38:58 AM by IceSaber »

Offline erv

  • Plecter Labs Inc. "Keeper of the Buttered Toast"
  • Manufacturer
  • Master Force User
  • *
  • Posts: 3869
  • Formerly known as Irvin PLECTER
    • Plecter Labs - Props Electronics
Re: Common issue with Prizm?
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2017, 09:03:47 AM »
what you hear is possibly the boot of the SD card itself, it is common if the wires of your speaker are passing over the board. We try to synchronize the start of the audio amp with the file load up process so that there's no wait time when the amp is ready to play the boot sound but this fine tuning varies on certain board version.

which version of prizm is this and what speaker and battery do you use ? is it the stock SD card ?

Offline IceSaber

  • Experienced Force User
  • ****
  • Posts: 367
  • Midi-chlorians..
Re: Common issue with Prizm?
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2017, 09:12:58 AM »
Thanks Erv, its a Prizm v4 with a Solos Hold 18650 internal but I've been testing it with a directly wired Panasonic NCR 18650. They're both good batteries. I haven't charged any of them beyond what they came with.

Speaker is a TCSS bass 28mm but I've also tested it with an external Railmaster Premium.

SD card is the one it came with and files are the standard ones too.

If we say the side of the board where the SD card goes is the 'top', then the speaker wires run 'under' the board, going across to the pads. When you say its common when speaker wires are passing over the board, it doesnt apply here since the test speaker was wired with the cables at the edge of the board instead.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 09:16:31 AM by IceSaber »

Offline erv

  • Plecter Labs Inc. "Keeper of the Buttered Toast"
  • Manufacturer
  • Master Force User
  • *
  • Posts: 3869
  • Formerly known as Irvin PLECTER
    • Plecter Labs - Props Electronics
Re: Common issue with Prizm?
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2017, 11:06:52 AM »
I confirm that I get that chirp on my test PRIZM v4 (but much lower than in your video). Also, it's been corrected already on the Prizm v5, the boot timings have been adjusted.

If you wish to have your boards flashed with a firmware correction it's possible. It's just sad that this goes randomly over FB without making me know (except that expecting me to magically step in all discussion) especially if it's been identified by some installers.

Offline CHEWBACCA

  • JEDI/ALLIANCE Master MODERATOR
  • Master Force User
  • **
  • Posts: 2018
  • Formerly known as MH
Re: Common issue with Prizm?
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2017, 12:14:07 PM »
If we say the side of the board where the SD card goes is the 'top', then the speaker wires run 'under' the board,

erv has already address the issue but I wanted to correct this.  The top of the board is NOT where the SD card is.  That is the bottom of the board.  So in your instance the wires are indeed running across the top of the board.  However as erv said it is more of a timing issue.


Offline IceSaber

  • Experienced Force User
  • ****
  • Posts: 367
  • Midi-chlorians..
Re: Common issue with Prizm?
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2017, 12:57:54 PM »
Thanks. Chewbacca, I used that as an example since I wasn't sure which was the top or the bottom but thanks for making it clear.

Erv, my first port of call was to check with other installers I know personally in private but they couldn't help so I posted in a fb group to see if anyone had come across it. The replies weren't very helpful so I tried another group and at this point I thought I'd also contact you because it's holding up this install. That was Saturday evening I believe. I hadn't heard from you on Sunday but I assumed you're probably having the weekend off and that's fine. This morning i remembered this isn't your main job so you might not reply so quickly either and as I said I wanted to get the install finished as soon as possible. I'm sorry you feel that it's sad it began on Facebook in saber groups but I'd given it ample consideration and decided not to come straight to you because I thought maybe it was just an issue of my wiring or a component problem (other than the board). I'm conscious of the fact you're a busy man and I wouldn't want to bother you unnecessarily so it is what it is. I only became confident that the board may be the problem when Shameem (who I view to be a very good installer) said he experiences the same problem. Until then I thought maybe it was something I was doing wrong.

This prizm came from France since it was being phased out for the v5. I'm in the UK and all prizms were unavailable at that time. I'd have waited for a v5 but i didn't know when it would land here. It's a shame the v5 has the issue fixed but some of the v4 ones went out with this issue. I'm surprised nobody has brought this to your attention sooner.

What would you like me to do in this case? Is it a case of a replacement or a repair, and how long will it take?

Thanks again
 
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 01:02:55 PM by IceSaber »

Offline erv

  • Plecter Labs Inc. "Keeper of the Buttered Toast"
  • Manufacturer
  • Master Force User
  • *
  • Posts: 3869
  • Formerly known as Irvin PLECTER
    • Plecter Labs - Props Electronics
Re: Common issue with Prizm?
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2017, 09:57:55 PM »
just to let you know I haven't received any contact info (email) regarding this issue, otherwise I would have addressed it immediately.

All the V4 work exactly the same, I almost cannot notice it on my setup and as Shammeem seemed to say, it's happening on some of his installs (only) reason why I know this is also partly due to the routing of the speaker wires and board even though the boot timing is a little early, which I simply changed in the V5 by looking at the code, not based on audio results.

There's no shame about the V5 upgrade, we don't touch firmware unless certain bugs or correction needs are brought up to us. When a new version is designed, it goes again into an extensive beta test and certain things evolve or are corrected. At the time you purchased the board(s), they were already at the retailers, not in my shop.

Like I've said above, there's no need of replacing or repairing but I'm offering to flash a corrective firmware to your board(s). Please contact me by email for shipping details. If you ship the boards *now* there's a chance I can address this before I leave in early July.

Offline IceSaber

  • Experienced Force User
  • ****
  • Posts: 367
  • Midi-chlorians..
Re: Common issue with Prizm?
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2017, 01:27:52 AM »
I've sent an email through your page.

I don't want to be a stick in the mud but I feel like you're blaming me for not contacting you in the manner you wanted me to. I really don't understand why you feel I'm supposed to know what to do in this situation regarding your process. I didn't know it was a board issue until you said so on this thread. You've only just asked me to contact you through your Web page and I have done.  I originally contacted you by Facebook because you've replied to be quickly on there before (youve not seen my messages). Just to be clear though, Shameem said it happens on nearly all of his prizm v4 installs. I sent you a screenshot on Facebook on Sunday to show the posts. Apologies if I any of that comes across badly but I'd hope you'd understand I did what made sense at the time.

In any case I await your email reply.

Thanks

Offline erv

  • Plecter Labs Inc. "Keeper of the Buttered Toast"
  • Manufacturer
  • Master Force User
  • *
  • Posts: 3869
  • Formerly known as Irvin PLECTER
    • Plecter Labs - Props Electronics
Re: Common issue with Prizm?
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2017, 01:58:02 AM »
I don't receive any notification from the FB messenger request I get from the plecter page, so everything you send there ends in the "filtered request", so I only see them here and there.

I have received your email from this morning as well. There's no blaming neither, it's just hard to understand who you are based on the fact you have 4 different identities between your handle here, your name, your email labeling and your FB messenger ID, it doesn't help connecting bits and bobs regarding your past contact.

Like your FB screen copy mentions, it seems to be happening at much lower volume for others as well (in my case too) as you couldn't hear it in other's video ?
Just to be clear, I'm addressing the issue, I'm just concerned that it's happening at a much larger volume than others, just like the mute mode on your CS.

I'll answer your email in a minute.


I've sent an email through your page.

I don't want to be a stick in the mud but I feel like you're blaming me for not contacting you in the manner you wanted me to. I really don't understand why you feel I'm supposed to know what to do in this situation regarding your process. I didn't know it was a board issue until you said so on this thread. You've only just asked me to contact you through your Web page and I have done.  I originally contacted you by Facebook because you've replied to be quickly on there before (youve not seen my messages). Just to be clear though, Shameem said it happens on nearly all of his prizm v4 installs. I sent you a screenshot on Facebook on Sunday to show the posts. Apologies if I any of that comes across badly but I'd hope you'd understand I did what made sense at the time.

In any case I await your email reply.

Thanks

Offline IceSaber

  • Experienced Force User
  • ****
  • Posts: 367
  • Midi-chlorians..
Re: Common issue with Prizm?
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2017, 02:08:06 AM »
The first video I made and posted on the group was simply me booting the saber. After someone mentioned they couldnt hear it I made a second (and sent that one to you and its the same one as in the link in this thread) where I isolated the crackle by twisting and untwisting the kill key before the boot.wav played. The screenshot I sent makes no mention of volume so I don't know who said that but the fact that your Prizm has the same issue but quieter is curious. I don't know what determines how loud it is but I noticed no change in volume when I had speaker wires coming off the edge of the board, rather than across. If you can test the board before sending it back to me that would be great.

I'll await yuour email

Offline erv

  • Plecter Labs Inc. "Keeper of the Buttered Toast"
  • Manufacturer
  • Master Force User
  • *
  • Posts: 3869
  • Formerly known as Irvin PLECTER
    • Plecter Labs - Props Electronics
Re: Common issue with Prizm?
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2017, 02:20:50 AM »
Above statement regards other's video, not yours. Not sure where you read it was about your video.
Quote from: erv
Like your FB screen copy mentions, it seems to be happening at much lower volume for others as well (in my case too) as you couldn't hear it in other's video ?


upload pictures

Obviously, validation of the firmware mod will be done on your board by hooking a speaker on it and field testing it. I would never blind-flash a board, that wouldn't make any sense.



The first video I made and posted on the group was simply me booting the saber. After someone mentioned they couldnt hear it I made a second (and sent that one to you and its the same one as in the link in this thread) where I isolated the crackle by twisting and untwisting the kill key before the boot.wav played. The screenshot I sent makes no mention of volume so I don't know who said that but the fact that your Prizm has the same issue but quieter is curious. I don't know what determines how loud it is but I noticed no change in volume when I had speaker wires coming off the edge of the board, rather than across. If you can test the board before sending it back to me that would be great.

I'll await yuour email

Offline IceSaber

  • Experienced Force User
  • ****
  • Posts: 367
  • Midi-chlorians..
Re: Common issue with Prizm?
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2017, 02:34:22 AM »
Ah I see where the confusion came from. The full screenshot begins with this:


I replied and mentioned that I couldn't hear it in ONE of his videos. It's the only video I could find that specifically mentioned installing a Prizm. The main reason I pointed his video out was because I thought maybe he fixed or adjusted something in the config to compensate but it could have just been the distance the mic was from the saber or something else.



« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 04:23:06 AM by IceSaber »

Offline erv

  • Plecter Labs Inc. "Keeper of the Buttered Toast"
  • Manufacturer
  • Master Force User
  • *
  • Posts: 3869
  • Formerly known as Irvin PLECTER
    • Plecter Labs - Props Electronics
Re: Common issue with Prizm?
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2017, 10:38:17 AM »
to echo to this (customer has sent his board for inspection) I came to a similar issue on a specific NBv4 today which had also a little "chirp" sound just before the boot, like what the customer complained on his prizm4.
Both NBv4 and Prizmv5 got their boot timing adjust but that particular board sounded different.

The difference was the SD card (!). We (with TCSS) are working together to source the best cards but it seems we got recently some mix and match, not a lot but enough to question it. I first noticed this while replicating the sd cards (custom, home made binary SD card replicator) and some cards, while "working" (ie, you can read them on the computer, copy files, format) would have a worse benchmark compared to top ones. Those cards are usually slower to format and to copy files on it, they have a slightly slower reading speed as well and they are "noisier".

We got the same situation back in the day (256 MB SD cards, CF4 era or something, welcome to the time machine) and when getting samples from a new supplier, the Sd cards we tested were generating a lot of noise when being accessed by the core MCU. They were also using 2 or 3 times the normal current, which could be part of the interferences we got.

Much later, I watched "Bunnies" (famous xbox hacker) talk about SD card clones and I came to realize we are probably all getting "clones" of SD cards at some point and it's hard to know where they have been manufactured for real (you can for sure trust the made in taiwan/japan/china that is engraved, or the Sandisk brand, and have santa claus butter your toast in the morning).

When selecting a manufacturer / retailer, we (with TCSS) always ask for samples to test the quality but along the river, it seems that we are sometimes getting what we are getting.
The "weird" ones I got recently aren't as bad as the 256 MB from the past, but they can be slow and a tad noisy compare to the ones that perform normally. They will work perfectly in a saber board, but as I've seen, their slower reading speed make the boot access not matching the expected timing and I got a chirp.

On the same NB, I used another SD card and the chirp was gone.

so, Icesaber, I just hope you sent your SD along with the PRIZM board, so that I can diagnose this as well. It is possible that you got one of those slow cards. If so, I will replace it as well.

Offline IceSaber

  • Experienced Force User
  • ****
  • Posts: 367
  • Midi-chlorians..
Re: Common issue with Prizm?
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2017, 02:58:55 AM »
Interesting. Yes i sent the sd card as well. I could have tried a different one before sending it off but it slipped my mind. I usually buy sd cards from amazon, directly sold by them. Simply because ive read about clones for years too. Maybe have a look into them supplying you in bulk?

I await your email once you get my board and card.

Offline erv

  • Plecter Labs Inc. "Keeper of the Buttered Toast"
  • Manufacturer
  • Master Force User
  • *
  • Posts: 3869
  • Formerly known as Irvin PLECTER
    • Plecter Labs - Props Electronics
Re: Common issue with Prizm?
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2017, 03:05:45 AM »
your board might be at the PO (we were out of town on saturday), I'll collect it tonight.
TCSS has already inquired to sandisk, but has been ignored so far


Interesting. Yes i sent the sd card as well. I could have tried a different one before sending it off but it slipped my mind. I usually buy sd cards from amazon, directly sold by them. Simply because ive read about clones for years too. Maybe have a look into them supplying you in bulk?

I await your email once you get my board and card.