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Author Topic: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi  (Read 3535 times)

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Offline Psab Keel

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
« Reply #75 on: May 12, 2017, 08:13:02 PM »
As it stands now there HAVE to be multiple production companies to fund these kinds of films.  Just taking a look at the actor's salaries being in the tens of millions of dollars, no single production company could conceivably foot the bill for an entire movie.

That being said, whether we like it or not Star Wars has long abandoned being the vision of a rogue filmmaker.  In fact there are very few movies today that are.  Star Wars is a product.  It's a brand.  It's no longer art in the sense that it once was.  That's not to say that it's bad.  It's just different.

Could Star Wars be artful once more?  It's hard to say.  I have hope that it could be.  I sincerely believe that the people in charge of making these films genuinely love them.  Will they make some crappy ones?  Sure.  But they may just yet make some great ones.  I have to say though that I just shake my head in shame when I hear people say that Rogue One is the best Star Wars film ever made.  I honestly don't even recall half of it.  Even the prequels were more memorable.  Bad films but at least memorable.   

The Original Trilogy will ALWAYS be the pinnacle by which not only other Star Wars films are judged, but benchmarks by which ALL movies are judged.  They will always reign supreme and I am glad of it.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 08:15:41 PM by Psab Keel »

Offline anakin2000

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
« Reply #76 on: May 13, 2017, 06:46:20 PM »
As it stands now there HAVE to be multiple production companies to fund these kinds of films.  Just taking a look at the actor's salaries being in the tens of millions of dollars, no single production company could conceivably foot the bill for an entire movie.

That being said, whether we like it or not Star Wars has long abandoned being the vision of a rogue filmmaker.  In fact there are very few movies today that are.  Star Wars is a product.  It's a brand.  It's no longer art in the sense that it once was.  That's not to say that it's bad.  It's just different.

Could Star Wars be artful once more?  It's hard to say.  I have hope that it could be.  I sincerely believe that the people in charge of making these films genuinely love them.  Will they make some crappy ones?  Sure.  But they may just yet make some great ones.  I have to say though that I just shake my head in shame when I hear people say that Rogue One is the best Star Wars film ever made.  I honestly don't even recall half of it.  Even the prequels were more memorable.  Bad films but at least memorable.   

The Original Trilogy will ALWAYS be the pinnacle by which not only other Star Wars films are judged, but benchmarks by which ALL movies are judged.  They will always reign supreme and I am glad of it.
I was with you up till the last paragraph. all 6 movies which told georges original story are important..
and yeah, I hate to say but star wars now is almost just a brand. the new movies will be fine, sure, but they won't carry the passion or magical element that were in the original 6. thats why the movies are almost watered down-LFL doesn't even produce the movies anymore. I might get a lot of hate for saying it but I miss George

Offline Psab Keel

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
« Reply #77 on: May 13, 2017, 10:26:19 PM »
I think we are in agreement for the most part.  I concede that the prequels (though they are bad films) are definitely the work of Lucas's vision brought to life, which was uniquely his own.  I disliked most of his creative decisions on those, but I have to give the man credit for making the films the way HE wanted to.  Even if I didn't like them.

The Star Wars story group is just that.  A group.  That's not to say that they can't come up with some really great ideas.  It's just a different way of making films.  There are almost no directors like the ones that came out of the 70's and 80's who are true visionaries who make unique and distinctly different kinds of films.  98% of what gets released these days is just created by marketing heads for mega corporations that only care about the bottom line.  Movies are a business first and rarely an art these days. 

I know Disney fits that description, but I do think that if they give the greenlight to talented directors and writers Star Wars could be great.  TFA wasn't perfect but it was a step in the right direction as far as creating new characters that I could get behind. 

I'm hopeful that The Last Jedi will continue to move in the right direction.

Offline Grigoris

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
« Reply #78 on: May 29, 2017, 04:31:39 PM »
Could Star Wars be artful once more?  It's hard to say.  I have hope that it could be.  I sincerely believe that the people in charge of making these films genuinely love them.  Will they make some crappy ones?  Sure.  But they may just yet make some great ones.  I have to say though that I just shake my head in shame when I hear people say that Rogue One is the best Star Wars film ever made.  I honestly don't even recall half of it.  Even the prequels were more memorable.  Bad films but at least memorable.   

I liked Rogue One - wouldn't say its the best, but one of the best, yes. While it may not be artful, they did try some new things in RO, and the ending was taking a risk. They didn't have to end that way with the Sam Peckinpah ending. I think that's a big reason it did well. Looking forward to TLJ. 

Offline Psab Keel

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
« Reply #79 on: May 29, 2017, 06:14:54 PM »
I'm glad they made Rogue One and that they took chances on trying to do new things with the franchise.  I just didn't care about the characters at all.

Offline Onli-Won Kanomi

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
« Reply #80 on: May 29, 2017, 07:51:36 PM »
I liked the ending of Rogue One and thought it did a nice job tying in to SW Ep.IV ANH. I agree with Psab that it was good they took some chances even though the R1 characters were not very memorable and also imo not nearly as interesting as the characters in Ep. VII TFA - I think Rey, Finn and Poe are worthy successors to the OT triumvirate and well acted even though the story in TFA was rather disappointing [and Ren is just not as menacing as Vader and imo never will be; they shouldnt have shown Ren's face in TFA at all that was a terrible error]. I can only hope that with Ep. VIII TLJ maybe oh please this once they will get good characterization AND good storytelling in a new SW movie done right. Well I can hope eh?
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Offline TheSaberCore

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
« Reply #81 on: May 30, 2017, 12:22:53 PM »
I disagree about Kylo Ren, I thought they did a great job with him. I think the writers of TFA knew they were never going to make a villain as intimidating or iconic as Darth Vader, so did the opposite: they went with the flawed, Vader wannabe that is Kylo Ren and gave him an unstable, makeshift lightsaber to match his fiery and uneven personality. Hopefully we get to see his further training in this movie, I think that would create a really cool dynamic seeing Rey and him grow stronger at the same time.
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Offline Psab Keel

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
« Reply #82 on: May 30, 2017, 03:14:26 PM »
It would be cool to see Kylo train with Snoke the way Luke trained with Yoda in Empire.  Just the Sith version.  That would be a really cool story reversal.

Offline Greenie

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
« Reply #83 on: May 31, 2017, 01:30:54 PM »
That would be cool but I'm imagining a training montage similar to RockyIV  :cheesy:
URL=http://s430.photobucket.com/user/Greenie5000/media/Full%20Reveal/image_zpsfborconb.jpeg.html][/URL]

Offline Onli-Won Kanomi

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
« Reply #84 on: May 31, 2017, 04:24:59 PM »
Kylo Ren's unstable lightsaber reflects his unstable personality? Hmmm that makes perfect sense form a character-creation point of view, so I'll give JJ and co props for that.

Yeah I'd like to see Snoke training him in TLJ too - we've never really seen what SITH training is like onscreen so that could be a really interesting addition to the mythos.

It could be interesting if they alternated between scenes of Luke training Rey and Snoke training Ren to highlight the similarities and differences...wouldnt have to necessarily be like the Rocky IV alternating Drago and Rocky training montage though that could be an option or they could alternate longer scenes but to contrast the probably brutal training methods of the Sith with those of the Jedi could be very dramatically valid and really ought to be done to distinguish Rey and Ren further before their inevitable final showdown whether in this or the next movie. 
To DREAM the IMPOSSIBLE DREAM. To FIGHT the unbeatable foe. To BEAR with unbearable sorrow. To RUN where the brave dare not go. To RIGHT the unrightable wrong. To LOVE, PURE AND CHASTE, FROM AFAR [-sigh-]. To TRY, when your arms are too weary; to REACH the unreachable Star!... This is my Quest; To follow that Star, no matter how hopeless, no matter how far...

Offline WEDGE ANTILLES

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
« Reply #85 on: June 10, 2017, 09:19:08 AM »
do we know for certain that Snoke is a "sith"?
"The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story.
Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned, and Luke doesn't get married..."
- George Lucas

Offline anakin2000

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
« Reply #86 on: June 10, 2017, 10:00:34 AM »
do we know for certain that Snoke is a "sith"?

no because JJ Abrams said that Snoke and Ren aren't sith

Offline WEDGE ANTILLES

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
« Reply #87 on: June 27, 2017, 01:39:26 PM »
somebody told me a synopsis of the aftermath books. apparently, Palpatine was hearing a voice in his head. other Sith heard it too.
the voice was telling him to go to an unexplored region of the galaxy beyond the outer rim. but he was too busy building death stars and getting himself killed.
so: when he died, the imperial fleet was instructed to go beyond the outer rim, and find the source of the voice in his head. without him.

 


it's clear to me now who snoke is. and what he wants.

 


snoke is the first 'dark side' force user, who has somehow managed to make himself Immortal.*   Rey is the first "light side" force user,  who is reincarnated-by-the-Force, over and over, in an effort to stop him.

in a previous life, she created the jedi order.. and many thousands of years ago, her Jedi Order managed to defeat this being. but he is immortal, so they couldn't kill him.  instead, they imprisoned him. and he has called out to Evil Force Users over the centuries, to come find him and rescue him.

what does he want? a new body. his old body is broken. obviously. (this is the ONLY thing we know about snoke; therefore it is a plot point) --- he has called out to Evil Force Users over the years, and he has tried to lure one of them to come to his location, to release him from his prison and BE his new host body.
 
Palpatine heard the call. but Palpatine only sent his fleet; he didn't come in person --> so NOW: snoke has been released from his prison by the Imperial Fleet, but snoke STILL needs a new body, of a PURELY evil force-user, to be his new host.

so.. what does he want?

he wants Ben Solo, aka: Kylo Ren, to be his new host body --> Ben Solo is snoke's "dark-side" Chosen One, (as per: "snoke is using you") -- Ben has been "chosen" (by snoke), to embody the "spirit" of the original dark side force user -- as it transfers its consciousness, from one host to another. but Ben is not evil enough (as per:"there's still light in him"). so snoke can't use him for this purpose. yet.

* this is how the Original Dark Sider has kept himself alive all these centuries: he transfers himself into new bodies; meanwhile the Original Light Sider gets "reincarnated" over and over, to oppose him, and maintain Balance.
((he has been alive 'continuously', and she has been alive 'repeatedly', for thousands of years)).
 
 
 
^^ Luke knows all this. when snoke first came on the scene and corrupted Ben Solo, Luke recognized this was an Ancient Evil -- and he has no idea how to defeat it. he went in search of the Original Jedi Temple, so he could find out exactly how the Original JEdi Order managed to imprison this thing, a thousand years ago. and what he learned: it requires a "light-side" Chosen One: the being "chosen" by the Force, to be the reincarnation of the original Light Side User. this is the ONLY way to imprison snoke, all over again.

so he sat there.  and he waited. for Rey.  he waited for the original Light Side User (aka: light side Chosen One) to reveal herself in the flesh, "re-incarnated" -- and when it is finally revealed to him, that the child he left on jakku IS the reincarnation of the original light side force user .. he is gob-smacked.




Now Ben has 'passed the test' and killed his father Han, this means Ben is finally Evil Enough, that Snoke can finally train him to become snoke's replacement host. snoke is vulnerable at this moment, because he is trapped in a broken body.. but..  if he transfers his consciousness into Kylo, then there will be no stopping him
--> Rey convinces Luke, that the time to act is NOW.

- one of them will advocate killing Kylo, to prevent him from becoming a Host Body to the Ultimate Evil (probably Rey);
- the other will advocate turning Kylo back to the light side, as per: ROTJ Vader Redemption Motif (probably Luke).

in the end: the spirit-of-Snoke WILL enter Kylo's body -- then Rey & "Snoke-in-Kylo's-body" will fight a passionate lightsaber duel, as she fights for Ben's Very Soul -- and it will 'seem like' all hope is lost, now that Snoke has succeeded in his Ultimate Goal -- now that snoke has found a new host, and taken FULL control of Kylo's body...

...but Kylo is not FULLY evil -- "there is still light in him"[Carrie Fisher] --> Rey WILL turn Kylo back to the light side.. but only AFTER snoke has ALREADY used Kylo as his New Host.. only AFTER snoke's own broken body is dead.

(ie: once Snoke has "won", and accomplished his Goal of using Kylo Ren as his New Host -- once it seems like "all hope is lost" -- then Kylo will 'mentally' defeat the 'spirit of snoke', from within: that small bit of 'light' inside of him, will take control -- thus destroying the 'spirit of snoke', FOR GOOD).

this will break the cycle of 'dark vs light' , and Rey's Spirit will no longer be reincarnated EITHER, over and over again, to oppose an immortal snoke.

(ie: once the spirit of the "Original Dark Side User" is finally dead , then the spirit of the "Original Light Side User" will no longer be reincarnated over & over, by the force: this will break the cycle of Dark vs Light, and unify The Force into a SINGLE entity (no more "dark side" vs. "light side" anymore -- only just "the force" from now on); the "human" bodies of Rey and Ben will be 'Free' to live their lives (to fall in love?); and everyone lives happily ever after).








I called it
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 01:42:27 PM by WEDGE ANTILLES »
"The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story.
Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned, and Luke doesn't get married..."
- George Lucas

Offline oswaldkefo

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
« Reply #88 on: June 27, 2017, 10:24:41 PM »
somebody told me a synopsis of the aftermath books. apparently, Palpatine was hearing a voice in his head. other Sith heard it too.
the voice was telling him to go to an unexplored region of the galaxy beyond the outer rim. but he was too busy building death stars and getting himself killed.
so: when he died, the imperial fleet was instructed to go beyond the outer rim, and find the source of the voice in his head. without him.

 


it's clear to me now who snoke is. and what he wants.

 


snoke is the first 'dark side' force user, who has somehow managed to make himself Immortal.*   Rey is the first "light side" force user,  who is reincarnated-by-the-Force, over and over, in an effort to stop him.

in a previous life, she created the jedi order.. and many thousands of years ago, her Jedi Order managed to defeat this being. but he is immortal, so they couldn't kill him.  instead, they imprisoned him. and he has called out to Evil Force Users over the centuries, to come find him and rescue him.

what does he want? a new body. his old body is broken. obviously. (this is the ONLY thing we know about snoke; therefore it is a plot point) --- he has called out to Evil Force Users over the years, and he has tried to lure one of them to come to his location, to release him from his prison and BE his new host body.
 
Palpatine heard the call. but Palpatine only sent his fleet; he didn't come in person --> so NOW: snoke has been released from his prison by the Imperial Fleet, but snoke STILL needs a new body, of a PURELY evil force-user, to be his new host.

so.. what does he want?

he wants Ben Solo, aka: Kylo Ren, to be his new host body --> Ben Solo is snoke's "dark-side" Chosen One, (as per: "snoke is using you") -- Ben has been "chosen" (by snoke), to embody the "spirit" of the original dark side force user -- as it transfers its consciousness, from one host to another. but Ben is not evil enough (as per:"there's still light in him"). so snoke can't use him for this purpose. yet.

* this is how the Original Dark Sider has kept himself alive all these centuries: he transfers himself into new bodies; meanwhile the Original Light Sider gets "reincarnated" over and over, to oppose him, and maintain Balance.
((he has been alive 'continuously', and she has been alive 'repeatedly', for thousands of years)).
 
 
 
^^ Luke knows all this. when snoke first came on the scene and corrupted Ben Solo, Luke recognized this was an Ancient Evil -- and he has no idea how to defeat it. he went in search of the Original Jedi Temple, so he could find out exactly how the Original JEdi Order managed to imprison this thing, a thousand years ago. and what he learned: it requires a "light-side" Chosen One: the being "chosen" by the Force, to be the reincarnation of the original Light Side User. this is the ONLY way to imprison snoke, all over again.

so he sat there.  and he waited. for Rey.  he waited for the original Light Side User (aka: light side Chosen One) to reveal herself in the flesh, "re-incarnated" -- and when it is finally revealed to him, that the child he left on jakku IS the reincarnation of the original light side force user .. he is gob-smacked.




Now Ben has 'passed the test' and killed his father Han, this means Ben is finally Evil Enough, that Snoke can finally train him to become snoke's replacement host. snoke is vulnerable at this moment, because he is trapped in a broken body.. but..  if he transfers his consciousness into Kylo, then there will be no stopping him
--> Rey convinces Luke, that the time to act is NOW.

- one of them will advocate killing Kylo, to prevent him from becoming a Host Body to the Ultimate Evil (probably Rey);
- the other will advocate turning Kylo back to the light side, as per: ROTJ Vader Redemption Motif (probably Luke).

in the end: the spirit-of-Snoke WILL enter Kylo's body -- then Rey & "Snoke-in-Kylo's-body" will fight a passionate lightsaber duel, as she fights for Ben's Very Soul -- and it will 'seem like' all hope is lost, now that Snoke has succeeded in his Ultimate Goal -- now that snoke has found a new host, and taken FULL control of Kylo's body...

...but Kylo is not FULLY evil -- "there is still light in him"[Carrie Fisher] --> Rey WILL turn Kylo back to the light side.. but only AFTER snoke has ALREADY used Kylo as his New Host.. only AFTER snoke's own broken body is dead.

(ie: once Snoke has "won", and accomplished his Goal of using Kylo Ren as his New Host -- once it seems like "all hope is lost" -- then Kylo will 'mentally' defeat the 'spirit of snoke', from within: that small bit of 'light' inside of him, will take control -- thus destroying the 'spirit of snoke', FOR GOOD).

this will break the cycle of 'dark vs light' , and Rey's Spirit will no longer be reincarnated EITHER, over and over again, to oppose an immortal snoke.

(ie: once the spirit of the "Original Dark Side User" is finally dead , then the spirit of the "Original Light Side User" will no longer be reincarnated over & over, by the force: this will break the cycle of Dark vs Light, and unify The Force into a SINGLE entity (no more "dark side" vs. "light side" anymore -- only just "the force" from now on); the "human" bodies of Rey and Ben will be 'Free' to live their lives (to fall in love?); and everyone lives happily ever after).








I called it

That sounds pretty legit to me. It also helps tie in the weird immaculate conception of the prequels, which is nice. One less plot thread hanging in the breeze. Surely though Snoke wouldnt get defeated in VIII, that would be the fancy finale of IX.
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Offline TheSaberCore

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
« Reply #89 on: June 28, 2017, 05:36:02 AM »
I do really like this idea, and I think parts of it may be true, but the teaser seems to focus on the more grey area of the Force, the balance between the dark side and the light. The whole idea of "balance in the Force" has never really made sense, so it would be cool if this new film would she'd some light on what "balance" is, and obviously Luke doesn't have the same views of the Jedi as he did before.
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