"Drop In" solution for LEDs.

[STARKILLER]

Its great to have representation from LuxeonStar here, and equally great that this little hobby of ours got your attention :D. Welcome!

The main problem faced with the multi-die rebels is the focusing lens. For solid colors the new set up seems to work ok, but honestly, they still aren't good at all for mixed colors. The way our blade technology currently works requires the LEDs and lens to fit in approximately 20mm of space. This so that the light can shine up a 7/8" ID blade (the most common) by 36" long. The blade has a wrap of about 4-6 ft of semi transparent film for diffusion and also helps to mix the colors from multi-die LEDs. This only works if the LED module/focusing lens are good to start with. The reason why LEDengins and other multi-die LEDs have become so popular is they have all the dice under one focusing dome which in turn, fits under a single lens. They are also quite powerful. All these things combined make for great color mixing ability. In the past with the Endors (love the name :D) and even the custom Tri-Rebels was that the lens solution was just not up to par with our needs. Even on the Tri-Rebels where the dice spacing was as close to center as you can get, it wasn't optimal for color mixing and on a standard length blade, the light either would not reach the end of the blade, or the colors would separate (on mixed colors)

If you can figure out a way to overcome these hurdles first, that would be great.

As far as cooling and heatsink design, as mentioned air flow/active style cooling methods, while they have been done (finger guns at Sunrider ;D) and are possible, are just not practical for the majority of our users. If you want the most sales numbers, I would definitely get with Tim at TCSS and work with him on getting a design that works with MHS. The MHS system is the most widely used system for custom sabers and if you can get a product that works with that, you're golden.

Again, welcome to the forum and we look forward to seeing more of you around!

[Gil Gamesh]

That would make them less efficient at dissipating heat.  i would rather they be harder to solder like now than easier but less effective at dissipating heat.

One more time  ;)

Keep saying it, still sounds silly.  Why make something HARDER to do if you don't need it to be?  Ledengines are hands down some of the toughest LED's we use for novices and beginers to solder, so why on earth make it HARDER when Quips here asking to HELP US OUT making something EASIER  ::)

Also, why would you want it easier but less effective at dissipating heat?  I want it easier and MORE EFFECTIVE at dissipating heat so my emitter doesn't get warm after an hour of runtime.   ::)

[ANAKIN SKYWALKER]

I meant leave it the way it is now rather than make it easier snd less efficient.

[Darth Smorgis]

Also, why would you want it easier but less effective at dissipating heat?

I think what he was trying to say is that he doesn't want it easier if it means that it is going to be less effective at dissipating heat.

But yes, Easier and More efficient would be best.

[Sunrider]

 Take a look at this thread that details a six amp led setup. http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=30652.0

 The high power setups I make are not typical. They require a lot of battery power and heat solutions. And as mentioned the optics are a major stumbling block in the more complex designs. A narrow beam pattern of about 10 degrees or less is needed.

[Quip]

Wow ! Thanks for the replies !

Again tho, we're only just playing with the idea at this point, perhaps in the future we'll get in touch with TCSH, but for now were just going to do some experimenting. We're pretty weary of the cooling, it may make the whole thing impractical, but it's worth toying with. The other problem would be that there are no lenses available, as it's a custom base... Is it practical to use a reflector as opposed to a lens ?

We had figured on some kind of forced air cooling, and found a small muffin fan that could be mounted below the heat-sink, but someone said that could be too much extra drain on the batteries ? I think we may be able to find a pretty low demand fan, but again, it's all up in the air.

I had a look at the MHS. Looks as though it could be something we could work with, maybe even use one of the module pieces as our main housing.

Anyway, the base is on order, so I'll post some images when it arrives.

[nartules]

I just dropped a led into a saber once. I had less than desirable results...it didn't light up. Never got any sound out of the speaker I just dropped in too. ;D

I suggest maybe mounting the led it to a large hex nut. I hear those are superior heatsinks.

Listen to shadeslinger you should not, attempt at being funny he was.  :)

Glad to see someone from the source taking an interest, if you can work out the kinks others have mentioned (Mace-Sunrider make some excellent points) it would be a product many on this forum would be interested in.

[Merana33]

Really what you're looking for is this: http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/MHS-new-style-Heat-Sink-P622.aspx

That provides heat sinking for 99% of the MHS sabers that are being constructed these days.

I'm sure that with a little bit of looking around on the forum you can narrow the color choices down that we tend to gravitate towards. The most 'up and coming' LED choice these days has been the multi-die setups that LedEngin has come out with recently. A single chip RGBW or RGBA setup that color-mixes well in a compact package with a high lumen rating. These setups let us custom tune our blade color of choice, or with some of the newer sound boards even reconfigure the blade color on the fly.

These days we tend to lean to lenses as there aren't many reflector options on the market in the ~10degree beam angle range.

From an R&D perspective it might be worth the ~$100 or so to purchase an assembled blade and basic bladeholder from TCSS and see what we're working with. And if your R&D guys come up with something incredible, you'll already be set up to make us drool with pictures.  ;)

edit: Here's a link to a post I put up with some numbers regarding beam angles and theory. http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=31967.msg458558#msg458558

[The_Night]

It might be worth toying with using reflectors. There has been a bit debate within the community here for a long time about which is proper or better. FX does not allow discussion of Ultrasabers, but I feel it is not crossing the line to say they use reflector units in their sabers, and offer modules. Might be worth getting one to mess around with. You can find the units on their site.

[KI-ADI-MUNDI]

Another thing to think about... make sure your working with the right colors if your going to create a product for lightsabers... The red blue and green can't just be some random picks... blues that are to dark or greens that have to much yellow in them or reds with to much orange will not work... Rebels are notorious for greens that are a bit to much on the yellow end of the shift and blues that are not very bright... Other color options should be RRWW, GGWW, BBWW... I really don't think you need to build an LED with more then 4 die... and the fan idea you should just toss right now because it will never work the way that you think it would... there is no venting in 99% of custom saber builds...

[Obi-Shane]

Hi guys. I'm here on behalf of Luxeon Star LEDs (http://www.luxeonstar.com/)... We've been kicking around this idea of trying to make an LED module specifically for light-sabers. We've commissioned a base .750" in diameter with space for six Rebel LEDs. We would like to work a suitable cooling solution into the design, and sell the module complete, ready to use.

We were wondering what kind of space you have in the average light-saber hilt ? We figure we'll need a few inches to house the heatsink, but aren't positive about how much we've got to work with. Any help or suggestions are more then welcome ! I'll have some images in the near future which I'll post here.

Cheers !

Quip

Everyone so far has been doing a great job of adding to the list of things WE WANT in a LED. From a marketting perspective if you wanted to compete with LEdengin's, giving us a wider range of color combinations all under the same dome (that's important) would be ideal. With the addiction of FoC^tm , things became a lot more interesting, unfortunately with the choices we have now it is impossible to achieve certain color combinations in the brightness we desire, we typically use 2 dice to achieve a blade color,and the other 2 dice to achieve the FoC^tm.

C=cyan
B=blue
G=green
w=white
r=red

Some combinations I think we would like to see:

RRBB
BBWW
RRWW
GGWW
CCWW

Just chiming in,

           Shane

Edit: Mundi beat me to it as I was writing my post. I had a couple more combos, but you get the idea. What we need right now , more then anything, is more color combinations in a 4 dice/1 dome design.

[Satele Shan]

It might be worth toying with using reflectors. There has been a bit debate within the community here for a long time about which is proper or better. FX does not allow discussion of Ultrasabers, but I feel it is not crossing the line to say they use reflector units in their sabers, and offer modules. Might be worth getting one to mess around with. You can find the units on their site.

Yeah, I found some 20mm, 10-degree collimator/reflectors on eBay. If they work out well, I'll probably have a few extras I can sell. Bought a 10-pack.

[Onli-Won Kanomi]

Welcome to FXS and Thank You for coming to our little but growing section of the LED using community.

It would be great for our saber use to have available a 6 die option with RGBBWA where each emitter die could be wired individually [not prewired in series which would require battery voltage that the soundboard/LED drivers we use don't support] ...or alternatively a RRGGBB could also be great. Even '6-ups' [the correct term ending with -tuple would probably not get past the swear filter here lol] all the same colour could lead to significant saber brightness gains that could be a giant leap forward for our hobby.

Why RGBBWA? Well a lot of us like RGB colour mixing for purple sabers but find the red die overpowers the blue making resistoring the red down necessary. Adding a second blue die would help with that and also be popular with blue saber users who would appreciate the extra lumens...red and green are already reasonably bright. Having an amber would allow mixing with the red [and/or green] for some very nice bright oranges and yellows or for the yellowish "Flash On Clash" seen in some of the early Star Wars films. And adding a white would allow a white FOC seen in some other SW film scenes and also for colour mixing with blue [and possibly green] for the pale cyanish sky-blue seen in the first SW film when Obi-Wan gives Luke his fathers lightsaber and would thirdly be useful for mixing with green to produce the "silvery green" description of 'viridian' in the videogame Knights Of The Old Republic.

So imo a 6-up in RGBBWA would offer unprecedented flexibility for producing any colour mixing combination saber users might want...if a good NARROW focus colour mixing solution can be found.

Narrow collimating is KEY for our use; getting all that light up a 36" long 3/4" to 1" outside diameter hollow polycarbonate tube isn't easy eh? When the original 3-up Endor Star first became available we had high hopes [esp because of the name lol] but there were never optics available for it quite tight enough [5-10 degrees] to be ideal for our use.

But Colour mixing is also a very important challenge for us...when I first began in this hobby we sometimes used white LEDs with filters which being subtractive was suboptimal at best so we've mostly moved to additive RGB mixing but getting a nice even mix that doesnt separate up the blade tube is an important consideration as well as narrow focus.

The custom colour triple rebels that you have on Luxeonstar right now are very tempting but the ~18 degree 'narrow' optic you have for it isnt ideal for our use not only because it isnt quite narrow enough but because the wide spacing of the triple optics means that colour mixing isnt perfect for our need to have colours mix evenly down a long narrow tube. Of course that is less problematic with 3-ups all the same colour but ~18 degrees still isn't narrow enough for our needs...I can tell you that personally I would have bought several same-colour versions of your triples [particularly triple royal blues and triple ambers] already if only there had been a 10 degree optic for them. If you ever get that I will.

So I hope you see that if you can find a good method for narrow beam collimation and for good colour mixing we would be overjoyed [and likely beat a steady path to your door with open wallets lol]. Especially if you can make it compatible with the TCSS MHS bladeholders that are effectively 'standard' in this hobby. Master Qui Gon has suggested that TCSS might not be interested but the modules they already have are single-LED only so imo a 6-up you've suggested would not conflict with them and imo could be a great addition to TCSS offerings. I'd recommend talking it over with Tim the TCSS owner, those of us who have had him do custom work know he's a great guy to work with.

I'm not so sure that active cooling would be a game stopper as Master Ki suggests...yes it might not be retrofitable to most present sabers we've built but moving forward a drilled, vented, or mesh screened MHS airflow adapter section [perhaps based on the present double male crystal chamber slotted section?] might be possible or of course venting in custom machined hilts as Sunrider has done. Imo if active cooling solutions are going to be necessary someday as I think many of us foresee why not embrace the future and try to get ahead of it? Moving to an active cooled 6-up is a big step for this hobby but it could bring big rewards in brightness or colour options and I think its great that a major manufacturer wants to work with us on bringing that future closer.

Again thanks for your interest in our market niche Quip and as we Star Wars geeks like to say May The Force Be With You.

[nartules]

Welcome to FXS and Thank You for coming to our little but growing section of the LED using community.

So imo a 6-up in RGBBWA would offer unprecedented flexibility for producing any colour mixing combination saber users might want...if a good NARROW focus colour mixing solution can be found.

Again thanks for your interest in our market niche Quip and as we Star Wars geeks like to say May The Force Be With You.

+1 - I can imagine this light option in an Igniter powered saber...oooo the possibilities....

[vulcan fox]

having read through this thread a few times i picked up on most people steering well clear of  actual cooling fans, size and noise arnt that bad, 25mm and 30mm -5volt  models are available and only 10mm deep, i suppose presently extra drain on the battery solution is a problem BUT as this post proves people are looking constantly at moving this hobby forward with better light , sound and more advanced and powerful sound boards...as this thread concerns LED lighting heat sinks and all types of cooling and venting should be considered in conjuction,i personaly think that a couple of small venting grills on a saber would look great as a functional part of the design but obviously structural integrity would have to be considered in any dueling saber....  have i mentioned this is a brilliant hobby.  ? ;)