FX-Sabers.com
Outer Rim => Off Topic - Non SW => Topic started by: Silver Serpent on May 11, 2012, 09:57:16 AM
-
Looks like international shipments may start having issues if li-ion batteries are included.
http://about.usps.com/news/service-alerts/international-updates.htm
http://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2012/pb22336/html/updt_004.htm
Effective May 16, 2012 and expecting to last until January 2013.
OUTBOUND INTERNATIONAL MAILING OF LITHIUM BATTERIES
Until January 2013, the Postal Service will not be able to accept packages containing lithium batteries and electronic devices containing lithium batteries addressed to international destinations. This includes mail destined to, or from, APO (Army Post Office), FPO (Fleet Post Office) and DPO (Diplomatic Post Office) locations.
This change is required by the standards of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) and the Universal Postal Union (UPU), both of which currently prohibit lithium batteries in mail shipments that are carried on international commercial air transportation.
This change will not apply to packages containing lithium batteries and electronic devices containing lithium batteries when mailed within the United States on domestic commercial air or ground transportation.
International organizations apply different rules to the carriage of lithium batteries in mail shipments carried on commercial aircraft as compared to domestic requirements.
We anticipate that by January 2013, international aviation rules will be changed to allow mailing of lithium batteries when installed in the personal electronic devices they are intended to operate.
USPS is working with expert organizations to determine if any new exceptions can be developed prior to January 2013. Further announcements will be made should USPS be able to accept lithium batteries in certain types of mail shipments as soon as any new options become available.
We appreciate our customers’ business. We recognize this change will pose an inconvenience to our customers and we look forward to continuing to be their international shipping partner.
-
hmmm. That is going to be an issue.
136.1 Dangerous Goods
[Revise the introduction to 136.1 and insert a new item i and a new closing paragraph to read as follows:]
Except as provided in IMM 135, “dangerous goods” as defined by the United Nations Recommendations on the Transport of Dangerous Goods, Model Regulations, are prohibited in outbound international mail, regardless of mail class. Some examples of dangerous goods include the following:
* * * * *
i. Primary lithium metal or lithium alloy (non-rechargeable) cells and batteries, or secondary lithium-ion cells and batteries (rechargeable), regardless of quantity, size, or watt hours, and regardless of whether the cells or batteries are packed in the equipment they are intended to operate, with the equipment they are intended to operate, or without equipment (individual batteries). This standard applies to all APO, FPO, or DPO locations.
You still mail domestically
10.20.6 Secondary Lithium-ion (Rechargeable) Cells and Batteries
[Revise 10.20.6 as follows:]
Small consumer-type lithium-ion cells and batteries like those used to power cell phones and laptop computers are mailable domestically under the following conditions. Mailing batteries internationally, or to and from APO, FPO, or DPO destinations is prohibited regardless of mail class. See IMM 136 for details.
a. General. The following additional restrictions apply to the mailability of all secondary (rechargeable) lithium-ion cells and batteries:
1. The lithium content must not exceed 20 Wh (Watt-hour rating) per cell.
2. The total aggregate lithium content must not exceed 100 Wh per battery.
3. Each cell or battery must meet the requirements of each test in the UN Manual of Tests and Criteria, Part III, and subsection 38.3 as referenced in DOTs hazardous materials regulation at 49 CFR 171.7.
4. The mailpiece must not contain more than three batteries.
5. All outer packages must have a complete delivery and return address.
b. Installed In Equipment. The following additional restrictions apply to the mailing of secondary cells or batteries properly installed in equipment they operate:
1. The batteries installed in the equipment must be protected from damage and short circuit.
2. The equipment must be equipped with an effective means of preventing it from being turned on or activated.
3. The equipment must be cushioned to prevent movement or damage and be contained in a strong enough sealed package to prevent crushing of the package or exposure of the contents during normal handling in the mail. The shipment must be mailed in a strong outer package.
c. Mailed With Equipment. The following additional restrictions apply to the mailing of secondary cells or batteries shipped with (but not installed in) the device or equipment being mailed:
1. The shipment cannot contain more batteries than the number needed to operate the device, up to three batteries.
2. The secondary lithium cells and batteries must be packaged separately and cushioned to prevent movement or damage.
3. The shipment must be contained in a strong enough sealed package to prevent crushing of the package or exposure of the contents during normal handling in the mail.
4. The outside of the package must be marked on the address side “Package Contains Lithium-ion Batteries (no lithium metal).”
d. Mailed Without Equipment. The following additional restrictions apply to the mailing of secondary cells or batteries without equipment:
1. The secondary lithium cells and batteries must be mailed in “the originally sealed packaging” and no more than three batteries.
2. The sealed packages of batteries must be separated and cushioned to prevent short circuit, movement, or damage.
3. The shipment must be contained in a strong enough sealed package to prevent crushing of the package or exposure of the contents during normal handling in the mail.
4. The outside of the package must be marked on the address side “Package Contains Lithium-ion Batteries (no lithium metal).”
-
I heard this might be coming when I shipped the Obi sabers. It is because USPS sends mail on commercial (passenger) jets. I don't think UPS or FedEx are stopping shipment because they have their fleet of airplanes. You have to check their restrictions, but when I shipped the Obis, I was OK because of the size of the cells (there is a maximum lithium content and equations to figure it out).
-
Yeah, the funny thing about Li-ion batteries and the postal service is most employees at local post offices will tell you they cannot be mailed, period. I had to print the rules myself and take them to the post office and show them to he clerk before they would allow me to mail CS-38 to Japan.
-
I don't like the sound of this,being in Canada myself,didn't Dave316 have a problem recieving one of Wat's Obi's? I think i remember in his review that the customs people severed the wires to the switches,still not sure why they would do that other than just because they can.
-
Dave316's problem has nothing to do with the batteries. It was all customs' doing deciding that they needed to open the package, inspect the contents and unsrew the parts. Probably looking for hidden contraband.
I should note, Dave316's and the other saber damaged by customs were shipped via FedEx. Three other international packages shipped via FedEx were not damaged. The remaining (5 or 6, I think) international packages shipped USPS Global Express (which is handled by FedEx) were not damaged. It's a hit or miss type ballgame with customs. But I doubt they are opening packages looking for Li-ion cells.
As I mentioned, there are still shipping options available - it's just going to cost international buyers more to ship until USPS get's their act together.
-
Oy vei ::) just another way to make things more difficult for us :P
UPS and FED EX are usually much more expensive than USPS but if its just for a small box with batteries it shouldn't be to bad.
I'll most likely be recommending to my customers to source their batteries locally to them or simply order them separately
from lighthound.com
-
this is gonna be bad news for us international buyers what about sabers that come with the batterys built in like the upcomming VV/SC quigon and coran horn sabers?
are we well and truly screwed?
-
Oh no :( not the news I wanted to hear.
I mean, I use FedEx a lot...so are we sure that will still be okay? Same with UPS?
Any idea if this affects Rob and Canada Post with international orders?
Ugh, this sucks.
At my work, there is no issue me sending batteries on planes as long as they ARE li-ion batteries. So this all seems a little backwards to me :(
-
Oh no :( not the news I wanted to hear.
I mean, I use FedEx a lot...so are we sure that will still be okay? Same with UPS?
Any idea if this affects Rob and Canada Post with international orders?
Ugh, this sucks.
At my work, there is no issue me sending batteries on planes as long as they ARE li-ion batteries. So this all seems a little backwards to me :(
That's cos us Aussies ARE backwards hicks mate :P
-
so are we screwed? or can we simply use a different postage carrier?
also does this mean us international buyers cant buy batterys from the usa anymore?
-
You can use a different carrier.
You may have to get your LiIon batteries internationally until this is sorted, or choose a vendor who will ship FEDEX or UPS.
-
This is really horrible because the best batteries (AW, Panasonic, Tenergy) can only be source from the US. Those from China or Hong Kong are usually Trustfire or some no name brand.
-
This is really horrible because the best batteries (AW, Panasonic, Tenergy) can only be source from the US. Those from China or Hong Kong are usually Trustfire or some no name brand.
I buy my AW cells directly from AW in China. I bought some AW cells from Lighthound and they were not AW cells. They were advertised as AW 17500 unprotected on the Lighthound website but all 4 that I bought failed. I was going to buy from Lighthound for the Obi run but they didn't have enough stock - so I bought direct. A few months later, I need 4 more cells and order from Lighthound. The batteries were a different color and different manufacturer. I will only buy direct from AW from now on.
There are always options, you just may have to look a little harder and pay a little more to get what you need.
-
Also, Tenergy is a Chinese Company so probably have offices outside the US. I would suggest contacting them directly. Panasonic batteries can be found elsewhere also, for example http://www.dealextreme.com/p/genuine-panasonic-18650-3100mah-rechargeable-battery-grey-pair-121452?item=8 .
-
Well isn't this rotten timing for us international saber builders since TCSS just started carrying a lot of cool new Li-ion battery options recently and I've only ever seen USPS shipping options when I check out there. :(
I hope my May The Fourth sale order from TCSS doesn't get hung up at the border since it contained Li-ion batteries I need for my contest saber entry and TCSS orders usually take 3 weeks to get here which would be past this new May 16th battery ban deadline. That would be my typical luck -sigh- :-\
-
I would think anything postmarked prior to the new regulations would be able to move through rather quickly. Good luck getting your stuff in time for the contest, I'd hate to see the new regulations forcing a contestant out of the running :(
-
So if i'm understanding everything here correct,international buyers can still recieve something with lithium batteries as long as it is shipped with FedX or UPS?Just not USPS untill they get things straitened out.
-
When exploring on the FEDEX site, I found the following. The new regulations that have gone into effect in the new IATA dangerous goods regulations seem to exclude small LiIon batteries in devices as long as packing instructions 967 are followed. It seems USPS is taking a conservative view until the aviation laws are modified in January, but FEDEX appears to be OK as long as the items are packed properly and have a reliable method of preventing accidental ignition (in our case, a kill key or kill switch could be such a method). Unsure about UPS. I have also found it is better to not ask because, as someone mentioned, they always tell you no ::).
-
I found this two month old thread while searching for my topic on mailing lithium batteries.
Basically I ordered a bunch of stuff from TCSS to be sent to me in Australia. The package was marked as shipped, but a few days later I got a note from Tim saying that USPS has returned the package as the li-ion batteries are no longer accepted. So he's removed them and refunded me on the batteries.
He's posted on his forum that USPS has now cracked down on battery shipping, and now on his website, all his batteries are marked as not available for international shipping. :'(
Reading Australia Post's website, their rules state that we cannot post batteries out internationally, but domestic is allowed but only by road. It's possible that Australia Post is not even accepting air carried batteries into the country, regardless of carrier. My guess is that since parcels arriving from overseas are via air, then this would not be allowed since the plane would be entering Australia.
-
I found this two month old thread while searching for my topic on mailing lithium batteries.
Basically I ordered a bunch of stuff from TCSS to be sent to me in Australia. The package was marked as shipped, but a few days later I got a note from Tim saying that USPS has returned the package as the li-ion batteries are no longer accepted. So he's removed them and refunded me on the batteries.
He's posted on his forum that USPS has now cracked down on battery shipping, and now on his website, all his batteries are marked as not available for international shipping. :'(
Reading Australia Post's website, their rules state that we cannot post batteries out internationally, but domestic is allowed but only by road. It's possible that Australia Post is not even accepting air carried batteries into the country, regardless of carrier. My guess is that since parcels arriving from overseas are via air, then this would not be allowed since the plane would be entering Australia.
This cannot be entirely true. I have received Li-Ion batteries twice in the last month from DealExtreme (which is from HK) via Air Mail. The package was clearly marked as batteries and had no issues arriving.
EDIT: I'm in Australia too, realized that wasn't obvious.
-
Deke, that's good to know. I did not know for certain, it was just a guess.
From Brisbane too ey?
EDIT: but it does pose a concern for anyone here in Aus needing to send a saber internationally.
-
Just dont mark them as lithium batteries.
-
I've received two sabers with installed batteries and haven't had any issues yet. However neither of those packages were identified as having LiIons installed ;) BTW, I live in Okinawa and the only packages I can get come through USPS.
-
That's true Scruffy, but we are all not marking the items as containing Li-Ion batteries. I think we are all hoping that we'll get away with it until the laws are modified in January and that when they are modified it will become a non-issues :-\.
-
Arise, dead thread! I just read something interesting on ebay regarding this very issue:
http://announcements.ebay.com/2012/11/sellers-usps-once-again-allowing-international-shipments-of-items-with-lithium-ion-batteries/
In a reversal of an earlier ban, USPS® has announced it will once again allow specific quantities of lithium-ion batteries to be shipped internationally when installed in the items they’re intended to operate. This reinstatement, effective immediately, also includes APO, FPO, and DPO locations around the world.
With the holiday season fast approaching, this is great news for sellers who ship internationally that offer popular gift items like video cameras, walkie-talkies, GPS devices, radio-controlled toys, cameras, MP3 players, laptops, electric shavers, power drills, tablets/iPads, and portable DVD players.
It was posted on the 20th of November, so i'm a little slow on reading my messages there, apparently. This means the batteries must be installed in the device they intend to operate, and said device must be prevented from accidental activation while in shipment....so no extra packs in the package would be allowed, and kill keys/plugs a must on sabers.
I have yet to verify this on USPS.com, so I cannot guarantee the accuracy of ebay's statement yet.
EDIT:
Verified:
http://about.usps.com/news/national-releases/2012/pr12_ma1116.htm
MEDIA STATEMENT
On Nov. 15, the Postal Service updated international mailing standards concerning international mail shipments containing certain lithium batteries, see links: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2012-11-15/pdf/2012-27842.pdf and http://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2012/pb22350/pdf/pb22350.pdf.
Specific quantities of lithium batteries are now allowed to be mailed when installed in the equipment they are intended to operate. However, some countries may decide to prohibit the acceptance of mail shipments containing any lithium metal or lithium-ion batteries.
The postal operator of Germany has notified the Postal Service it will not accept packages containing lithium metal or lithium-ion batteries destined to addresses in Germany.
This does not apply to shipments to and from APO (Army Post Office), FPO (Fleet Post Office) and DPO (Diplomatic Post Office) locations in Germany.
Updates to the Individual Country Listings in the International Mail Manual will be issued with the next scheduled online update.
Postal employees will advise customers of this prohibition and will decline any shipments of electronic items containing lithium batteries addressed to Germany.
-
It's good to know that they will allow this.
Being stationed overseas. I have not run into this issue because
I have an FPO address. I've resived 3 li-ion packs in the last 4 months.
-
That's very good news for smiths who are shipping sabers with Li-ion batteriy packs already installed in them... :D
...though not so good - yet - for those of us outside of the USA who'd like to be able to buy the Li-ion packs from TCSS which aren't "installed" in the sabers we'd like to build with them...
...but at least it shows the USPS is willing to correct its mistakes partially so maybe there is still hope eh? lol
-
Oh thank GOD. :) You just made my day Qui-Gon.
-
I think this is a collective sigh of relief for the whole community. Thanks so much for finding this Master QUI!!!
-
I think this is a collective sigh of relief for the whole community. Thanks so much for finding this Master QUI!!!
True that! It's great not having to worry about that now :)
-
Jeez, just SHIP the lithiums and don't declare them. They'll never know!
-
O_o I tried that and they knew somehow! :(
-
Yeah, they would have found out eventually if you kept shipping packages. Anywho, that is great news!!! Thanks for sharing.
-
Jeez, just SHIP the lithiums and don't declare them. They'll never know!
Have you checked into the fines and JAIL TIME associated with what amounts to mail fraud? Look into it, and you'll change your tune. Beside that, the USPS ships parcels on commercial airliners that have 100's of people on board....if your package for some reason caught fire in the non-pressurized cargo hold of said aircraft, how would you feel knowing you caused the deaths of all the passengers and crew after the plane crashes in say, the middle of the Atlantic ocean? I personally would not want that on MY conscience. ::)
-
I think this is a collective sigh of relief for the whole community. Thanks so much for finding this Master QUI!!!
Agreed.
Jeez, just SHIP the lithiums and don't declare them. They'll never know!
This is a reckless statement. Reckless advice can cause injurious results. Please don't advise people to participate in illegal or prohibited activities. Whether or not we agree with the rules is not at issue. >:(
-
i agree GG this is why I lost a sale i think on my graflex for sale, the member said i got 2 sabers with LI-ion and didnt have to pay extra, I advised after that I will NOT lie on customs forms... oh well atleast it going to be fixed.
-
Wish I had known this a couple of weeks ago. Would have saved me from a big headache.
Good news for sure.
-
I personally did that, having NO idea at the time. They sent me a call, we chatted about it, and let's say it was a very roundabout answer when they could have just said that they prohibited Li-Ion batteries. X_X Dealing with customs and fraudulent mail is just too much of a hassle, and as a result, it loses potential buyers for me, but keeps me out of prison. I'll take my freedom. :)
-
Maybe because lithium is more highly reactive chemically and will basically burst into flame upon exposure to air eh?
Whatever you think of a "regulation for regulations sake" it is foolish to assume there is no good reason for it; rule-breakers and scofflaws eventually have to answer for that arrogance in one way or another, so to advocate such is irresponsible imo.
-
I am assuming that USPS at present, allows the shipping of LI-Ion batteries and the ban is no longer in effect, even after the holidays?
-
Haven't heard any new announcements from them, I'm assuming yes.
I am assuming that USPS at present, allows the shipping of LI-Ion batteries and the ban is no longer in effect, even after the holidays?
-
The short answer is yes they are able to be shipped. I recommend reading the USPS publications dealing with it to be familiar with the rules as there are certain caveats.
-
Yup, I got an affirmation from Luminara. Read it too.
Thanks!
-
http://about.usps.com/news/service-alerts/international-updates.htm (http://about.usps.com/news/service-alerts/international-updates.htm)
Here is specific quote .. Read carefully
Postal Service policies were changed Nov. 15, 2012, to allow specific quantities of lithium batteries — when installed in the equipment they are intended to operate — to be sent to many international destinations, including APO (Army Post Office), FPO (Fleet Post Office) and DPO (Diplomatic Post Office) locations when permitted by the destination or host country.
-
That was my specific concern. I'm sending in a hilt for repairs from Canada to the U.S. Thanks!
-
That was my specific concern. I'm sending in a hilt for repairs from Canada to the U.S. Thanks!
Make sure when you fill out the customs form, that you mark the package as being sent for repair, if you're able. I had two sabers delivered to me a couple of years ago for the very same reason, and also from Canada, and I was charged the import duty on them even though I did not purchase them.
-
holy thread revival batman but how is the postal service these days with the ol li-ion shipments to international destinations
-
holy thread revival batman but how is the postal service these days with the ol li-ion shipments to international destinations
Here are the guidelines. I only found these due to wanting to send a saber to be modified to Canada.
Small consumer-type lithium-ion cells and batteries like those used to power cell phones and laptop computers are mailable in a single shipment with the following restrictions:
The batteries must be installed in the equipment being shipped.
Each shipment may contain a maximum of four lithium-ion cells or two lithium-ion batteries.
The lithium content must not exceed 20 Watt-hour rating (Wh) per cell.
The total aggregate lithium content must not exceed 100 Wh per battery.
Each battery must bear the “Watt-hour†or “Wh†marking on the battery to determine if it is within the limits defined in items c and d.
The batteries installed in the equipment must be protected from damage and short circuit.
The equipment must be equipped with an effective means of preventing it from being turned on or activated.
The equipment must be contained in a strong sealed package and cushioned to prevent movement or damage.
-
so what is the wh rating on 14500 and 18650 as their the ones we use mostly
-
Bump!I believe this is still how it is handled by the USPS, and will try to verify it later tonight.
-
so what is the wh rating on 14500 and 18650 as their the ones we use mostly
This is a little late, but here is how to figure watt-hours courtesy of FEDEX: http://images.fedex.com/us/services/pdf/LithiumBattery_JobAid.pdf (http://images.fedex.com/us/services/pdf/LithiumBattery_JobAid.pdf)
For those with no pdf viewer, the formula is: Volts x ampere hour (Ah) = watt hours
Example: a single 3.7v, 3400mAh 18650 would be 3.7 x 3.4Ah = 12.58WH
To figure the lithium content, the formula is: Ah per cell x 0.3 gm x number of cells
Example: a single 3.7v, 3400mah 18650 would be 3.4 x 0.3 x 1 = 1.02 grams of lithium
Here is where you can find the information on the USPS site regarding shipment of hazardous materials: Publications (http://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2015/pb22408/html/updt_008.htm) This is publication 52, section 349.222 for domestic shipments of Li-ion batteries/cells, and section 652.52 for international shipping.