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Author Topic: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board  (Read 91642 times)

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Offline profezzorn

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Re: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board
« Reply #375 on: December 13, 2017, 08:09:11 PM »
BATT- is hooked up to pin 1 on the aviation connector.  Then pin 2 comes back to the GND on the saber.  I also have BATT- hooked up to BATT- on the saber.  I assume this is correct.

Sounds right (BATT- is hooked up to the power supply directly, without going through the blade connector, correct?)

If so, it's odd that the voltage would drop so much, because the teensy and teensysaber draws less than 100mA. Even at 1.5ohm, that's only a 0.15 volt drop, and that drop should be the same weather the blade is on or not.

If all else fails, you can try posting pictures of all your connections.
Oh, and check for shorts...



Offline KanyonKris

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Re: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board
« Reply #376 on: December 13, 2017, 11:46:49 PM »
After several nights of disastrous blunders with the V3 electronics, I'm thinking I may be better off going the route of buying as much pre-assembled electronics as I can. Would I be able to use the firmware with a Teensy 3.5 (has an SD card socket) and a Prop Shield? This is close to the V1 electronics.

Some questions:

Will the TeensySaber software be able to use an SD card on the Teensy 3.5? I saw a post on the PJRC forum (the thread profezzorn started) that got an SD card working with MTP on a Teensy 3.5/6.

Will I need a booster?  The Teensey Vin accepts 3.6 - 6 Volts. Can I run the Teensy (and Prop Shield) directly from an 18650? How much battery energy will I not use if the Teensy stops working at 3.6 V?

Must I use a FET if I only use a PL9823 string? The blade will be blue on power up until the Teensy boots up enough to to command the PL9823s to turn off, right?

Any other issues?

Offline profezzorn

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Re: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board
« Reply #377 on: December 14, 2017, 12:22:26 AM »
After several nights of disastrous blunders with the V3 electronics, I'm thinking I may be better off going the route of buying as much pre-assembled electronics as I can. Would I be able to use the firmware with a Teensy 3.5 (has an SD card socket) and a Prop Shield? This is close to the V1 electronics.

Some questions:

Will the TeensySaber software be able to use an SD card on the Teensy 3.5? I saw a post on the PJRC forum (the thread profezzorn started) that got an SD card working with MTP on a Teensy 3.5/6.

Will I need a booster?  The Teensey Vin accepts 3.6 - 6 Volts. Can I run the Teensy (and Prop Shield) directly from an 18650? How much battery energy will I not use if the Teensy stops working at 3.6 V?

Must I use a FET if I only use a PL9823 string? The blade will be blue on power up until the Teensy boots up enough to to command the PL9823s to turn off, right?

Any other issues?

Yes. a teensy 3.5 + prop shield should work. You will need to use a wire to hook up the audio, but it should be pretty easy.
I think you'll be ok without the booster, you'll loose some speaker volume, and some things may glitch when the battery is low, but I think it will work.
You can probably go without the FET, but a single FET really is pretty easy to put in.
The problem with not having a FET is that the LEDs draw a lot of power even when off, but you could work around that with a physical on/off button or a kill key.
And yes, the blade will be blue for a second or two while the teensy boots.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 12:26:39 AM by profezzorn »

Offline Fletch

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Re: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board
« Reply #378 on: December 14, 2017, 07:39:46 AM »
Do you have BATT- hooked up to the blade connector or to the power supply?

BATT- comes from the power supply and goes to the blade as well as the BATT- on the saber board.  Then due to the short on pin 1 and 2 of the blade the BATT- goes through the blade connector and then I hook it up to the GND on the V2 saber board.  I think that I misstyped the resistance I measured. It was more like 0.5ohms.

How much power can the power supply provide? A 3A power supply is not enough to power a blade....

My power supply will supply up to 5A.  At least that is what it says it will do.  I have never even seen it get to that level though but I will watch it again and maybe put something in line to measure the actual current.

Anyways, you need to keep measuring at different points, now measure at BATT+, BATT-, both sides of the blade connector and at the power supply. It sounds like the power drop is in the connector, but you should verify that. BATT- and GND are supposed to be close, so there shouldn't be much voltage difference there. BATT+ should have the battery voltage.

I will give this another look through but with the resistance being so low I am baffled at how there could be that much of a voltage drop.  I might try plugging in a battery instead of the power supply and see if that makes a difference (based on your power supply comments above).

Thanks!

Offline Fletch

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Re: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board
« Reply #379 on: December 14, 2017, 08:30:21 AM »
What are your thoughts on speakers?  I don't have time to try different speakers.  We got some 8ohm/2W speakers that were highly rated from the custom saber shop (the 28mm speaker).  We tried it on the bench and it sounded a little softer than we were expecting.  Would we be better to find a 4ohm speaker in the future?  In other words, would we get more ummmphhh out of a 4ohm speaker?

Offline profezzorn

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Re: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board
« Reply #380 on: December 14, 2017, 01:17:05 PM »
What are your thoughts on speakers?  I don't have time to try different speakers.  We got some 8ohm/2W speakers that were highly rated from the custom saber shop (the 28mm speaker).  We tried it on the bench and it sounded a little softer than we were expecting.  Would we be better to find a 4ohm speaker in the future?  In other words, would we get more ummmphhh out of a 4ohm speaker?

The short answer is yes, but finding a good 4 ohm speaker can be challenging. Of course, you could potentially make a 4-ohm speaker out of two 8-ohm speakers by hooking them up in parallel.

Before you go get a new speaker, try what it sounds like in your hilt. I have two sabers that use the "premium 28mm speaker" from TCSS, but my OWK is easily twice as loud as my Graflex because of differences in speaker placement. (Both use the same amplifier, so it's a pretty fair comparison.) On my test bench I use a small "2w 20mm speaker" from tcss, which doesn't sound like much at all until I rubber-banded it to a couple of inches of 7/8" blade stock. The point is that the space around the speaker, and the openings to that space are just as important as the speaker iself, maybe more.


Offline KanyonKris

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Re: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board
« Reply #381 on: December 15, 2017, 10:09:41 AM »
Yes. a teensy 3.5 + prop shield should work. You will need to use a wire to hook up the audio, but it should be pretty easy.
I think you'll be ok without the booster, you'll loose some speaker volume, and some things may glitch when the battery is low, but I think it will work.
You can probably go without the FET, but a single FET really is pretty easy to put in.
The problem with not having a FET is that the LEDs draw a lot of power even when off, but you could work around that with a physical on/off button or a kill key.
And yes, the blade will be blue for a second or two while the teensy boots.
Thank you for the reply.
I may try not using a booster just to see what happens, but according to these discharge curves (18650 battery test with capacity curves for many cells) the voltage will sag well below 3.6 V with only 200-500 mAh used when discharging 2 or 5 Amps, so looks like a booster is essentially required.
I agree, using a FET makes sense. I should be able to fit it in my saber hilt.
The parts will arrive in a few days then I'll see how it goes together.

Offline profezzorn

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Re: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board
« Reply #382 on: December 15, 2017, 11:50:15 AM »
Yes. a teensy 3.5 + prop shield should work. You will need to use a wire to hook up the audio, but it should be pretty easy.
I think you'll be ok without the booster, you'll loose some speaker volume, and some things may glitch when the battery is low, but I think it will work.
You can probably go without the FET, but a single FET really is pretty easy to put in.
The problem with not having a FET is that the LEDs draw a lot of power even when off, but you could work around that with a physical on/off button or a kill key.
And yes, the blade will be blue for a second or two while the teensy boots.
Thank you for the reply.
I may try not using a booster just to see what happens, but according to these discharge curves (18650 battery test with capacity curves for many cells) the voltage will sag well below 3.6 V with only 200-500 mAh used when discharging 2 or 5 Amps, so looks like a booster is essentially required.
I agree, using a FET makes sense. I should be able to fit it in my saber hilt.
The parts will arrive in a few days then I'll see how it goes together.

I think there is a pretty good chance that the teensy will keep working below 3.6 volts, but I haven't tried it, so I don't know for certain.

Offline Fletch

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Re: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board
« Reply #383 on: December 15, 2017, 02:43:37 PM »
Before you go get a new speaker, try what it sounds like in your hilt. I have two sabers that use the "premium 28mm speaker" from TCSS, but my OWK is easily twice as loud as my Graflex because of differences in speaker placement. (Both use the same amplifier, so it's a pretty fair comparison.) On my test bench I use a small "2w 20mm speaker" from tcss, which doesn't sound like much at all until I rubber-banded it to a couple of inches of 7/8" blade stock. The point is that the space around the speaker, and the openings to that space are just as important as the speaker iself, maybe more.

We are planning on putting the speaker in a box inside the hilt.  I actually have actually designed a couple of speaker boxes for work to increase the SPL output.  It is certainly not Bose quality but the principals that you are describing are the same.  I have been toying around with leaving a hole in the back of the box and creating another hole in the hilt to act as a "port" but I am not sure I want to go that far.  It will ruin the look of my hilt.  Maybe I will leave that as an option. 

Anyway, we were already going down the path you described.  Sounds like we have the same speaker anyway so I feel better about that.

Offline KanyonKris

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« Reply #384 on: December 19, 2017, 04:46:02 PM »
After more hours than I anticipated, and many stupid blunders (mostly with the electronics), my saber is complete. Gotta say I'm happy with how it turned out.

Many thanks to profezzorn for the build details and help here in the forums.

« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 04:47:51 PM by KanyonKris »

Offline spearson

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Re: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board
« Reply #385 on: December 21, 2017, 08:59:55 PM »
After much trial and error I was able to get my V2 programmed, but in the process of testing voltages with a meter (stupidly on the pins of the aviation connector) I fried LED driver number 1 as it hissed and smoked at me.  After finding the problem (no Teensy power, needed ground to bat -) and connecting my neopixel strip blade and using the Serial Monitor the blade lights up and the effects work.  What am I missing with the bad driver number 1?  Can I instead use one of the drivers on the back of the V2 as a replacement?

I'n not doing charging through the blade and wired up a normal charge port with no power to the board when charging.  So I think I just didn't do my ground wires correctly and missed needing bat - and ground connected.

Offline KanyonKris

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Re: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board
« Reply #386 on: December 21, 2017, 11:00:16 PM »
What am I missing with the bad driver number 1?  Can I instead use one of the drivers on the back of the V2 as a replacement?
For neopixel type blades the software turns on all 3 main FETs to power the blade so you only need one of those 3 FETs to make the blade work. Our group built only neopixel type blades and we only loaded FET1 (it can handle over 10 amps) and all the sabers work fine. The dead FET 1 will only be a problem if you use a star blade that needs to indepdantly control 3 high power LEDs that shine up the blade to illuminate it.

Offline spearson

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Re: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board
« Reply #387 on: December 22, 2017, 08:29:11 AM »
Awesome, that is great news and super reassuring.  Thanks for the reply!

Offline profezzorn

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Re: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board
« Reply #388 on: December 23, 2017, 12:41:18 AM »
What am I missing with the bad driver number 1?  Can I instead use one of the drivers on the back of the V2 as a replacement?
For neopixel type blades the software turns on all 3 main FETs to power the blade so you only need one of those 3 FETs to make the blade work. Our group built only neopixel type blades and we only loaded FET1 (it can handle over 10 amps) and all the sabers work fine. The dead FET 1 will only be a problem if you use a star blade that needs to indepdantly control 3 high power LEDs that shine up the blade to illuminate it.

This is correct, but I would take the 10A rating with a grain of salt. The FETs can handle 10A with good thermal management, but when you put them on a small board inside a closed environment with no air movement, over-heating is pretty likely.  Still, it should be ok to run up to 300 neopixels on a single FET, since it wouldn't hit 10A most of the time. A three-strip blade could be problematic on a single FET though.  Two FETs should be able to handle just about anything currently available though.

Offline TTFRAZ

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Re: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board
« Reply #389 on: December 23, 2017, 03:08:52 PM »
Another question... say we want different blades ie. with different resistors to identify each blade. Should we change the number or blades or is that only when we want accessories or a dual blade type saber. And how do you identify which preset goes to each blade? Should we change the CONFIGARRAY(presets) to CONFIGARRAY(“bladename”)?

 

retrousse