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Author Topic: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board  (Read 91595 times)

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Offline Obi-Ken Wanobi

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Re: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board
« Reply #285 on: May 30, 2017, 05:45:16 PM »
Quote

Actually, no, that's not right...
The timing used by the adafruit library seems to be:

#define WS2811_TIMING_T0H 85
#define WS2811_TIMING_T1H 170

(At roughly 800kHz)

It's an easy thing to try, but I suspect it won't help.
(Although, increaing T0H will give the signal a little bit longer to rise to 3.3v, so maybe it will help?)

I will give this a try as soon as I get home this evening (I'm actually at work and shouldn't really be doing this right now.)  :wink:

So I gave this a try and it did not help.  What I did notice is that increasing the T0H timing did slightly slow down the rate of the sparkling effect.

Now for some good news.  while testing this on my bench I discovered that touching and/or handling the signal wire from pin 20 on the Teensy to the blade connector greatly increases the sparkling effect.  On top of that if I grab this wire in two places with both my hands the effect goes to extreme which is an almost solid white blade with just a slight flicker.  Obviously there is noise being introduced so now for the key questions...  What do you think will resolve this?

1) Adding a ferrite core?
2) or... Adding the capacitor across the power leads?
3) or... both?

Do you have any other ideas?  Is there such a thing as a shielded single strand wire?

Thanks again for your help.

Offline profezzorn

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Re: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board
« Reply #286 on: May 30, 2017, 08:22:05 PM »

1) Adding a ferrite core?
2) or... Adding the capacitor across the power leads?
3) or... both?

Do you have any other ideas?  Is there such a thing as a shielded single strand wire?

Thanks again for your help.

That's a good clue. It means the problem is almost almost certainly electrical.
Not sure what would cause it to be that sensitive though.
Capacitors and ferrite cores might help, but I don't really think they should be needed.
I think the first thing to try is a smaller resistor on the data pin.
However, it should be noted that it's just as likely that the noise comes from the negative power.
Do you have a Blade ID resistor? If so, what value is it?  (should be a few Kohm or more.)

Perhaps you could post some pictures of your build, it's often quite helpful.


Offline Obi-Ken Wanobi

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Re: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board
« Reply #287 on: May 30, 2017, 09:33:46 PM »
Well... I think I'm done for a while.  While trying to re-do things with a smaller resistor on the pin 20 line I seem to have fried my LED strips.  All I get is a section at the end of one strip the lights solid all the time and nothing else.  I've worked now for quite some time redoing the solder connections, etc. and can't get the blade to work any more.  :angry: 

Would you have a source and a specific LED strip you would recommend?  Obviously the ones I bought from AliExpress for a cheap price were just that... cheap.

Once I can get some new strips I'll start over.  :sad:

To answer your question about the blade ID resistor it was 10K Ohms.

Offline profezzorn

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Re: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board
« Reply #288 on: May 30, 2017, 10:27:48 PM »
Well... I think I'm done for a while.  While trying to re-do things with a smaller resistor on the pin 20 line I seem to have fried my LED strips.  All I get is a section at the end of one strip the lights solid all the time and nothing else.  I've worked now for quite some time redoing the solder connections, etc. and can't get the blade to work any more.  :angry: 

Would you have a source and a specific LED strip you would recommend?  Obviously the ones I bought from AliExpress for a cheap price were just that... cheap.

Once I can get some new strips I'll start over.  :sad:

To answer your question about the blade ID resistor it was 10K Ohms.

Aliexpress and ebay can be a little hit-and-miss. Ebay is a little better since you can look at feedback.
Try to look for vendors that actually specify what the chip is. I've used Sk6812 chips, WS2812B chips should be fine I think, and the new WS2813 chips look good too. (Ideally I'd like to find some WS2812A-based strips, as those have higher brightness, but I have not found any of those.)  Also, I recommend "slim" strips, since those are easier to diffuse.

Unfortunately a lot of people say WS2812B even though they are not, which is a little harder to fix. :(

Offline Sethski

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Re: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board
« Reply #289 on: June 03, 2017, 12:07:18 AM »
Thanks for comprehensive answers to questions  :smiley:

(Re flicker)

How do you want it to work?
I don't have any other boards myself, so I don't know what is standard and how they work. :)
I imagine that popular choices would be sound-based flickering and random flickering?

I think your initial implementation sounds good. I like the idea of it being sound-based and having that sync between sound and light effects. I think it’s only the other open source solutions that currently implement this and not the Plecter and NEC boards, but I may be wrong in that.

I guess if used for clash and lockup and maybe blaster deflect, the main distinction between the blade flicker and clash/lockup/other effects is the colour change for the latter, but I guess this could be implemented with some sort of volume/amplitude threshold beyond which colour changing effects kick in as well as a more pronounced flicker/shimmer.

I’ve owned Plecter boards and know that the flicker has two settings for flicker, which (I think) control the variability and depth of the effect. As I undertstand, there are different settings and effects for shimmer/lockup and clash and blaster deflect.

I guess it comes down to tweaking the final effect to look subjectively good to the eye as much as the basis of the approach.

 
Also, I've actually tried to stay away from using configuration menues on the saber itself, as I think that seems really difficult to implement *well*. Instead everything is currently done through the "presets" array. Holding aux while tapping power goes to the next preset, holding power and tapping the blade goes to the previous preset. The presets are managed in the source itself.

I agree – having presets/fonts you can cycle through with the saber is important to me, perhaps along with basic functions like controlling or muting volume, but, beyond this, it seems easier and more straightforward to alter these from the keyboard.

I think the variation in clash lockup/tip drag depending on orientation of the saber you suggest may be more straightforward/user friendly to distinguish between activation of these effects and would cover most instances.

Deducing approximate location on the blade for localised effects from the motion detector would be great if possible – I guess this is something that the builder might need to tailor to work with the variations in the physical materials and build of the saber.

If you're serious about contributing, you'll need to learn a *little* coding to do it.
There is no better way to learn how to code than to customize something you love though.

Absolutely, this is my intention. A good starting place for me in the past with making a website and digital modelling and animation has been to comb through and play with existing source material to tweak it to understand it and better meet my needs.

I have materials for a test blade, so will be putting that together while Teensysaber is en route. I also have a DIYino board and may treat myself to a Prizm v5 when available soon, all of which will find homes-in-hilts. The polyphonic swing sound mixing is the standout feature for Teensysaber that puts that at the front of the queue for my personal saber.  :wink:

I'll post further thoughts and questions on software in the thread you've created for that.

Offline Obi-Ken Wanobi

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Re: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board
« Reply #290 on: June 06, 2017, 08:44:55 AM »
That's a good clue. It means the problem is almost almost certainly electrical.
Not sure what would cause it to be that sensitive though.
Capacitors and ferrite cores might help, but I don't really think they should be needed.
I think the first thing to try is a smaller resistor on the data pin.
However, it should be noted that it's just as likely that the noise comes from the negative power.
Do you have a Blade ID resistor? If so, what value is it?  (should be a few Kohm or more.)

Perhaps you could post some pictures of your build, it's often quite helpful.

So I received my replacement LED strips and put the blade back together.  I dropped down to a 22 Ohm resistor (from the 100 Ohm one I originally used) and I still had the flicker issue.  I then removed the resistor altogether and still have the same issue.  Obviously the resistor is not contributing to this issue at all.  I'm going to check all my connections again tonight (I may resort to resoldering them).  I also obtain a handful of ferrite cores which I'll try on the battery power line into the Sparkfun power boost board and on the signal wire to the DIN on the LEDs.  I'll let you know what happens.

Also, in case I didn't answer this previously the blade ID resistor is 10K.

Thanks again for all your support.

Offline gmcivor

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Re: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board
« Reply #291 on: June 06, 2017, 10:28:30 AM »
What is the make up of your blade.

I know it is 40" with 97 PL9823 LED's. Is it transwhite with just the packing foam wrapped around the LED's? Is it clear with an inner diffuse film with the packing foam? I am just curious and I am experimenting with different diffusion ideas.

Regards,

GMcIvor

Offline profezzorn

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Re: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board
« Reply #292 on: June 06, 2017, 10:50:15 AM »
What is the make up of your blade.

I know it is 40" with 97 PL9823 LED's. Is it transwhite with just the packing foam wrapped around the LED's? Is it clear with an inner diffuse film with the packing foam? I am just curious and I am experimenting with different diffusion ideas.

Regards,

GMcIvor

97 PL9823 wrapped in packing foam stuffed inside a TCSS diffuser shoved into a trans-white 7/8" blade.

Offline profezzorn

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Re: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board
« Reply #293 on: June 06, 2017, 10:52:44 AM »
That's a good clue. It means the problem is almost almost certainly electrical.
Not sure what would cause it to be that sensitive though.
Capacitors and ferrite cores might help, but I don't really think they should be needed.
I think the first thing to try is a smaller resistor on the data pin.
However, it should be noted that it's just as likely that the noise comes from the negative power.
Do you have a Blade ID resistor? If so, what value is it?  (should be a few Kohm or more.)

Perhaps you could post some pictures of your build, it's often quite helpful.

So I received my replacement LED strips and put the blade back together.  I dropped down to a 22 Ohm resistor (from the 100 Ohm one I originally used) and I still had the flicker issue.  I then removed the resistor altogether and still have the same issue.  Obviously the resistor is not contributing to this issue at all.  I'm going to check all my connections again tonight (I may resort to resoldering them).  I also obtain a handful of ferrite cores which I'll try on the battery power line into the Sparkfun power boost board and on the signal wire to the DIN on the LEDs.  I'll let you know what happens.

Also, in case I didn't answer this previously the blade ID resistor is 10K.

Thanks again for all your support.

I really doubt it's the connections.
Did you get the same type of strips as last time?
(If so, can you point me to where you got them?)
Also, have you tried a different (high-amp) battery?

Offline Obi-Ken Wanobi

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Re: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board
« Reply #294 on: June 06, 2017, 08:59:01 PM »
I really doubt it's the connections.
Did you get the same type of strips as last time?
(If so, can you point me to where you got them?)
Also, have you tried a different (high-amp) battery?

Yes, I got the same ones.  I also ordered another set (from an ebay seller) and will be assembling another blade as soon as they arrive.  The ones I'm using now are from an AliExpress seller. 

Here's the link...
ttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/addressable-1m-144LEDs-m-DC5V-SK6812MINI-3535-led-pixel-strip-NON-waterproof-with-144pixels-M-WHITE/32451691714.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.9rKCy6

This page has a link to the LED chip source which contains a link to the following specifications for the SK6812 MINI-3535 LED chips used...
ttps://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/SK6812MINI-3535-SK6812-adressable-full-color-RGB-3535-LED-light-source-with-built-in-chip-1000pcs/701799_32434844290.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000023.1.iquqCr


Also, to answer your question about batteries I'm using the SAMSUNG INR18650-25R 20A/100A pulse batteries you recommended on your website in the V1 electronics section.  It doesn't seem to matter if the battery is fully charged or not... the issue still occurs.

I am also using the Sparkfun LIPower 5V Boost Converter you recommended as well and I've removed the small under-voltage circuit capacitor per your instructions.  The only thing I've done differently is 1) I'm not using the SD adapter and have instead connected the MISO, MOSI and SCK pins from the Teensy 3.2 to the Prop Shield in order to enable access to the internal SerialFlash on the Prop Shield and 2) I added a Switchcraft 2.1mm barrel connector inline to battery negative (-) which allows me to use a "Kill Plug" on my saber (both parts purchased from The Custom Saber Shop).  My wiring looks virtually identical to the photo on your website of the V1 electronics.

I am willing to start replacing components if that's what it would take to correct this.  I just don't know where to start.

Right now the saber is fully functional with the soundfont on the Serial Flash and minor customization I've done to v1.110.  I've downloaded v1.119 tailored it to match my 1.110 implementation but I'm actually having a problem with it.  I changed VERSION_MAJOR to 1 and VERSION_MINOR to 0, commented out the "#define POWER_TOUCHBUTTON" (I'm not using a touch button) and tailored by blade array and presets.  It compiles cleanly but when it activated on the Teensy it gets up to a message "I2C pullups found, initializing..." and then seems to stop functioning.  It does accept serial command input and will return the output from the "help" command but it does not light the blade nor does it play any soundfont files.  Any ideas?

Thanks again for your support.

Offline profezzorn

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Re: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board
« Reply #295 on: June 06, 2017, 09:32:16 PM »
New TeensySaber V2 sales thread is live:
TeensySaber V2 for sale

Offline profezzorn

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Re: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board
« Reply #296 on: June 06, 2017, 09:50:51 PM »
I really doubt it's the connections.
Did you get the same type of strips as last time?
(If so, can you point me to where you got them?)
Also, have you tried a different (high-amp) battery?

Yes, I got the same ones.  I also ordered another set (from an ebay seller) and will be assembling another blade as soon as they arrive.  The ones I'm using now are from an AliExpress seller. 

Here's the link...
ttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/addressable-1m-144LEDs-m-DC5V-SK6812MINI-3535-led-pixel-strip-NON-waterproof-with-144pixels-M-WHITE/32451691714.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.9rKCy6

This page has a link to the LED chip source which contains a link to the following specifications for the SK6812 MINI-3535 LED chips used...
ttps://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/SK6812MINI-3535-SK6812-adressable-full-color-RGB-3535-LED-light-source-with-built-in-chip-1000pcs/701799_32434844290.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000023.1.iquqCr


These look like they should be the same as my strip blade.
I re-tested my strip blade to make sure I hadn't screwed up the code recently, but it seems to work.

Quote
Also, to answer your question about batteries I'm using the SAMSUNG INR18650-25R 20A/100A pulse batteries you recommended on your website in the V1 electronics section.  It doesn't seem to matter if the battery is fully charged or not... the issue still occurs.

Recommended might be a strong word. That's the same battery I use, so it shouldn't be an issue.
Just be careful with those batteries, ok?

Quote
I am also using the Sparkfun LIPower 5V Boost Converter you recommended as well and I've removed the small under-voltage circuit capacitor per your instructions.  The only thing I've done differently is 1) I'm not using the SD adapter and have instead connected the MISO, MOSI and SCK pins from the Teensy 3.2 to the Prop Shield in order to enable access to the internal SerialFlash on the Prop Shield and 2) I added a Switchcraft 2.1mm barrel connector inline to battery negative (-) which allows me to use a "Kill Plug" on my saber (both parts purchased from The Custom Saber Shop).  My wiring looks virtually identical to the photo on your website of the V1 electronics.

None of these things should cause any problems.

Quote
I am willing to start replacing components if that's what it would take to correct this.  I just don't know where to start.

Everything sounds great though.
I'll be curious to see if a different LED strip works differently.

Quote
Right now the saber is fully functional with the soundfont on the Serial Flash and minor customization I've done to v1.110.  I've downloaded v1.119 tailored it to match my 1.110 implementation but I'm actually having a problem with it.  I changed VERSION_MAJOR to 1 and VERSION_MINOR to 0, commented out the "#define POWER_TOUCHBUTTON" (I'm not using a touch button) and tailored by blade array and presets.  It compiles cleanly but when it activated on the Teensy it gets up to a message "I2C pullups found, initializing..." and then seems to stop functioning.  It does accept serial command input and will return the output from the "help" command but it does not light the blade nor does it play any soundfont files.  Any ideas?

Hmm, did you comment out ENABLE_SD ?

Offline profezzorn

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Re: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board
« Reply #297 on: June 07, 2017, 01:46:50 AM »
I am willing to start replacing components if that's what it would take to correct this.  I just don't know where to start.

Everything sounds great though.
I'll be curious to see if a different LED strip works differently.

Ok, so I think I have some good-news and bad news.

The good news is that I found data sheet for SK6812: https://cdn-shop.adafruit.com/product-files/1138/SK6812+LED+datasheet+.pdf

The bad news is that it says that it need the input signal to be 3.4 volts for it to register as "high", and the teensy only puts out 3.3 volts. (So why does mine work? No idea, maybe it's an older model?)

That basically leaves two choices:

1. Use a different strip (the WS2813A/B datasheet looks compatible with 3.3v logic.)
2. Bring the voltage of the data signal up, using a transistor or logic gate that can run at 5 volts. The teensysaber has a 5v pin you can take the voltage from, so it's just a matter of finding the right transistor.



Offline Obi-Ken Wanobi

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Re: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board
« Reply #298 on: June 07, 2017, 07:24:09 AM »
That basically leaves two choices:

1. Use a different strip (the WS2813A/B datasheet looks compatible with 3.3v logic.)
2. Bring the voltage of the data signal up, using a transistor or logic gate that can run at 5 volts. The teensysaber has a 5v pin you can take the voltage from, so it's just a matter of finding the right transistor.

So... I'm willing to build the transistor based circuit but unfortunately I'm not experienced enough to know how to proceed.  If you pointed me in the right direction I'll buy the necessary parts and build it.  I wouldn't know where to begin in finding the right transistor though.  Your help would be greatly appreciated plus the design change would hopefully improve the Teensy Saber project to now fully support the SK6812 based strips (which seem to be widely available compared to the WS2813A/B strips).

Offline Obi-Ken Wanobi

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Re: Announcing the Teensy Saber open source sound board
« Reply #299 on: June 07, 2017, 09:44:48 AM »
That basically leaves two choices:

1. Use a different strip (the WS2813A/B datasheet looks compatible with 3.3v logic.)
2. Bring the voltage of the data signal up, using a transistor or logic gate that can run at 5 volts. The teensysaber has a 5v pin you can take the voltage from, so it's just a matter of finding the right transistor.

So... I'm willing to build the transistor based circuit but unfortunately I'm not experienced enough to know how to proceed.  If you pointed me in the right direction I'll buy the necessary parts and build it.  I wouldn't know where to begin in finding the right transistor though.  Your help would be greatly appreciated plus the design change would hopefully improve the Teensy Saber project to now fully support the SK6812 based strips (which seem to be widely available compared to the WS2813A/B strips).

I found the following which looks like it addresses the exact issue I'm having with my SK6812 (WS2812 compatible) LED strips...

ttp://hackaday.com/2017/01/20/cheating-at-5v-ws2812-control-to-use-a-3-3v-data-line/

The only thing I would need your help with is identifying the appropriate signal diode to use.  It's been years since I've messed with electronics at this level and at my age I can't remember half of what I learned 25+ years ago.  :embarrassed:

 

retrousse