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Offline Nicholas.slaydon

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This Guy Has The Right Idea
« on: June 14, 2014, 07:01:30 PM »
STAR WARS FANS NEED TO APPRECIATE MORE & RedLetterMedia SUCKS!
There is a bit of language but it is not too bad. But this guy has some good ideas and i agree with him on every point.

Offline bombarta

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Re: This Guy Has The Right Idea
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2014, 10:25:57 AM »
jeez he don't shut up, only got half way through and couldn't listen any more, I think my ears were bleeding!
I think he's had a bit to much reefer hahaha
I don't know, i gotta bad feeling about this!
       

Offline JediWizard

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Re: This Guy Has The Right Idea
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2014, 12:56:33 PM »
my tv has zooom mang ;)

Offline Nicholas.slaydon

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Re: This Guy Has The Right Idea
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2014, 01:14:11 PM »
my tv has zooom mang ;)
I know people have hated lucas since 1983 when Jedi came out and then lucas gave them the theatrical release in the 4x3 TV standard and then they hated him for that because It didnt look good enough. All this hate on Lucas and Star Wars makes me SICK!

Offline Psab Keel

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Re: This Guy Has The Right Idea
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2014, 10:09:38 PM »
The point is that Lucas just can't leave it alone.  That's all fans really want.  Just leave the originals alone.  Not only are most of the changes bad, but many of them are extraneous and take you out of the rhythm of the movie.  The central irony of Lucas' tinkering is that his idea is to "improve" the films.  But what he doesn't understand is that they worked just as they were without all of his changes.  The alterations only weaken the films. 

I agree with the guy in the video that it is much harder to create something than it is to criticize it.  Believe me, I know because I'm working on several novels.  The thing is that if you release it to the public, you open yourself up to criticism.  That's the risk you take.  Just as a fan has the choice as to whether they want to buy every edition, so Lucas has the choice to not listen to the critics.  It works both ways.  I don't hate George Lucas.  I don't know him.  I just don't agree with many of his artistic choices.  The point I think many people miss (and I gather this is what the guy in the video is getting at) is that people don't need to literally hate Lucas.  They can strongly disagree with his choices, but to hate a man they've never even met is absolutely insane.  Lucas did not ruin anyone's childhood, no matter how much fanboys want to whine that he did.       

Offline Nicholas.slaydon

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Re: This Guy Has The Right Idea
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2014, 06:22:45 AM »
The point is that Lucas just can't leave it alone.  That's all fans really want.  Just leave the originals alone.  Not only are most of the changes bad, but many of them are extraneous and take you out of the rhythm of the movie.  The central irony of Lucas' tinkering is that his idea is to "improve" the films.  But what he doesn't understand is that they worked just as they were without all of his changes.  The alterations only weaken the films. 

I agree with the guy in the video that it is much harder to create something than it is to criticize it.  Believe me, I know because I'm working on several novels.  The thing is that if you release it to the public, you open yourself up to criticism.  That's the risk you take.  Just as a fan has the choice as to whether they want to buy every edition, so Lucas has the choice to not listen to the critics.  It works both ways.  I don't hate George Lucas.  I don't know him.  I just don't agree with many of his artistic choices.  The point I think many people miss (and I gather this is what the guy in the video is getting at) is that people don't need to literally hate Lucas.  They can strongly disagree with his choices, but to hate a man they've never even met is absolutely insane.  Lucas did not ruin anyone's childhood, no matter how much fanboys want to whine that he did.     
I have heard this before and i dont really understand why people think the changes weaken the film, i mean most of them are small like Han shooting first, obi wan kenobi new cry, jabba the hut scene, jabbas palace scene in ROTJ Etc. And about the Han shooting first i really dont understand, i mean does it really affect the plot of the movie?
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 06:25:49 AM by Nicholas.slaydon »

Offline JediWizard

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Re: This Guy Has The Right Idea
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2014, 06:57:51 AM »
ok tryd to watch it again but couldnt,
yall need to chill Mang, no wham sayin mang haha

Offline Lord Bane

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Re: This Guy Has The Right Idea
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2014, 11:19:57 PM »
That guy is an idiot!

Offline Psab Keel

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Re: This Guy Has The Right Idea
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2014, 06:15:53 AM »
The fact that Greedo missed shooting Han in the face at point blank range is not only pathetic, and kind of makes you pity him, which is not something you should be establishing if he's threatening to kill Han and tells him that he's been looking forward to so doing for a long time.  Do we really need to see Greedo try and fail and pity him?  Better yet, why not just leave it alone?  In the original version of the film it established the ambiguous nature of Han Solo.  While Han was merely defending himself, he was also not above killing someone in a crowded bar.  It's a classic western motif of a gunslinger outdrawing his opponent in the saloon.  I mean for God's sake, the man's last name is SOLO.  He's only out for himself.  But by the end of the film he's changed by meeting Luke and Leia and realizes that there is more to the universe than just himself and his ship.  It's a satisfying character arc.

Another example of why the changes effect the film would be from Empire.  Towards the end of the film Vader tells his officers to bring his shuttle.  This ONE line saves a lot of time and the next shot we see of Vader, he's on the bridge of the Star Destroyer.  The pace of the film is crucial here.  Luke has just been rescued by his friends, but the Falcon is still on the run from Vader's forces and we still don't know if the hyperdrive even works, thus enabling our heroes to escape.  In the Special Edition, Vader's line is changed unnecessarily to "Alert my Star Destroyer to prepare for my arrival."  Then we have FOUR NEW SHOTS depicting Vader boarding the shuttle from Cloud City, the shuttle leaving the planet, the shuttle landing on the Star Destroyer, and Vader exiting the craft (which was an alternate angle from the opening sequence of Return of the Jedi for those of you who are paying close attention.) 

Meanwhile the main focus of the story is neglected and breaks the tension of the film by having those distracting scenes added, robbing our heroes escape of it's imminent danger.  Do we really need to see Vader do all of those things in order to understand that he left Cloud City and is now on his flag ship?  Because that's all we really need to know and it was established just fine in the original cut of the film.  The whole movie, Vader has been in hot pursuit of the rebels, and with Luke's defeat we get the sense that they might not escape the clutches of the Empire.  The new cut slows down the pace and distracts us from the main storyline.  I mean if they're going to add those new scenes, why didn't they add the additional shots they had of when they served dinner on the shuttle?  Or show Vader watching the in flight movie, which by the way was originally supposed to be Man on Fire until Vader heard the title and had it switched to Raiders. 

The other problem with the changes have to do with tone and it's best seen in the Special Edition of Return of the Jedi.  Jabba's palace is a dark, eerie place, with strange creatures and dank corners.  It's dangerous.  In fact it's so dangerous that Jabba (a stylized cross between a mythical dragon and an evil gangster) has one of our heroes hanging on his wall as a decoration.  Talk about evil!  In mythic terms, Jabba is the dragon in his dark cave, holding the treasure that the hero seeks.  There is even a monster far worse than the giant slug himself that lives in the caverns below the throne room.  With the push of a button Jabba can send anyone he wants down a trap door to feed the beast for his own entertainment.  It's the perfect setting for a rescue. 

Jabba, like other evil gangsters, has his own house band led by Sy Snootles and Max Rebo.  In the original cut of the film they serve the purpose that Salacious Crumb, and Jabba's dancers do.  To entertain his every whim.  Crumb is his court jester, and the dancers are supposed to be enticing, though I'd hate to imagine any further than that.  The original band song was short and alien sounding, much like the Cantina band song from the original Star Wars.  In the Special Edition the lights are turned up and out of nowhere the band is brightly colored, flamboyant and loud, which is an instant contrast from the dim mood lighting of the cavern and overall eerie silence.  Not to mention that their instruments completely block out Solo in Carbonite suspended on the wall behind their absurdly large drum, and whose life hangs precariously in the balance.  The continuity is broken as well in that none of the characters or instruments are seen in the background in any other shots before or after their dance number and the size of that drum alone would warrant that it be seen.  Their song is loud and brassy, sounding just like a gaudy Vegas house band.  It's downright terrible, and for some reason more additional character's are added, including three new backup singers, several drummers, a horn player, and a second alien singer. 

Then what makes it even worse is that Sy Snootles looks DIRECTLY into the camera, instantly breaking the fourth wall as if to wink at the audience.  Then her co singer does the same thing, only opens his mouth so wide that you can literally see down his throat.  It's downright obnoxious.  (Boba Fett is guilty of this too in the SE of A New Hope when he looks directly into the camera as if to say, hey, did you notice I was shoehorned into this scene too?)  The dark, dangerous atmosphere of the palace suddenly turns into a lighthearted, silly dance number.  While there is humor inherent in the Star Wars series, it shouldn't be when we need to understand the danger of a scene.  This is intercut with the scene of Oola struggling with Jabba, a shot that implies her resisting his sexual advances, and ultimately ends with her being fed to the Rancor below for refusing to give in to him.  Then Sy Snootles says, uh oh, in a cartoonish fashion as Oola is dropped to her death.  How are we as an audience supposed to reconcile those two completely contrasting ideas?  It doesn't make logical sense.  Either the palace is lighthearted and goofy, or it's dark and dangerous.  It can't be both.  Besides, what danger is there for our heroes if the place was goofy?  With no tension, there is no story.  It's as simple as that.

I don't think people need to hate George Lucas.  In fact, I hope they don't.  As I said earlier, none of us know him and from nearly every interview I've seen, he seems like he's actually a really great guy.  But as audience members, as fans, we have every right to either love or hate his choices as an artist.  I think THAT needs to be the distinction going forward. 

 

 
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 06:45:10 AM by Psab Keel »

Offline Nicholas.slaydon

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Re: This Guy Has The Right Idea
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2014, 12:23:05 PM »
The fact that Greedo missed shooting Han in the face at point blank range is not only pathetic, and kind of makes you pity him, which is not something you should be establishing if he's threatening to kill Han and tells him that he's been looking forward to so doing for a long time.  Do we really need to see Greedo try and fail and pity him?  Better yet, why not just leave it alone?  In the original version of the film it established the ambiguous nature of Han Solo.  While Han was merely defending himself, he was also not above killing someone in a crowded bar.  It's a classic western motif of a gunslinger outdrawing his opponent in the saloon.  I mean for God's sake, the man's last name is SOLO.  He's only out for himself.  But by the end of the film he's changed by meeting Luke and Leia and realizes that there is more to the universe than just himself and his ship.  It's a satisfying character arc.

Another example of why the changes effect the film would be from Empire.  Towards the end of the film Vader tells his officers to bring his shuttle.  This ONE line saves a lot of time and the next shot we see of Vader, he's on the bridge of the Star Destroyer.  The pace of the film is crucial here.  Luke has just been rescued by his friends, but the Falcon is still on the run from Vader's forces and we still don't know if the hyperdrive even works, thus enabling our heroes to escape.  In the Special Edition, Vader's line is changed unnecessarily to "Alert my Star Destroyer to prepare for my arrival."  Then we have FOUR NEW SHOTS depicting Vader boarding the shuttle from Cloud City, the shuttle leaving the planet, the shuttle landing on the Star Destroyer, and Vader exiting the craft (which was an alternate angle from the opening sequence of Return of the Jedi for those of you who are paying close attention.) 

Meanwhile the main focus of the story is neglected and breaks the tension of the film by having those distracting scenes added, robbing our heroes escape of it's imminent danger.  Do we really need to see Vader do all of those things in order to understand that he left Cloud City and is now on his flag ship?  Because that's all we really need to know and it was established just fine in the original cut of the film.  The whole movie, Vader has been in hot pursuit of the rebels, and with Luke's defeat we get the sense that they might not escape the clutches of the Empire.  The new cut slows down the pace and distracts us from the main storyline.  I mean if they're going to add those new scenes, why didn't they add the additional shots they had of when they served dinner on the shuttle?  Or show Vader watching the in flight movie, which by the way was originally supposed to be Man on Fire until Vader heard the title and had it switched to Raiders. 

The other problem with the changes have to do with tone and it's best seen in the Special Edition of Return of the Jedi.  Jabba's palace is a dark, eerie place, with strange creatures and dank corners.  It's dangerous.  In fact it's so dangerous that Jabba (a stylized cross between a mythical dragon and an evil gangster) has one of our heroes hanging on his wall as a decoration.  Talk about evil!  In mythic terms, Jabba is the dragon in his dark cave, holding the treasure that the hero seeks.  There is even a monster far worse than the giant slug himself that lives in the caverns below the throne room.  With the push of a button Jabba can send anyone he wants down a trap door to feed the beast for his own entertainment.  It's the perfect setting for a rescue. 

Jabba, like other evil gangsters, has his own house band led by Sy Snootles and Max Rebo.  In the original cut of the film they serve the purpose that Salacious Crumb, and Jabba's dancers do.  To entertain his every whim.  Crumb is his court jester, and the dancers are supposed to be enticing, though I'd hate to imagine any further than that.  The original band song was short and alien sounding, much like the Cantina band song from the original Star Wars.  In the Special Edition the lights are turned up and out of nowhere the band is brightly colored, flamboyant and loud, which is an instant contrast from the dim mood lighting of the cavern and overall eerie silence.  Not to mention that their instruments completely block out Solo in Carbonite suspended on the wall behind their absurdly large drum, and whose life hangs precariously in the balance.  The continuity is broken as well in that none of the characters or instruments are seen in the background in any other shots before or after their dance number and the size of that drum alone would warrant that it be seen.  Their song is loud and brassy, sounding just like a gaudy Vegas house band.  It's downright terrible, and for some reason more additional character's are added, including three new backup singers, several drummers, a horn player, and a second alien singer. 

Then what makes it even worse is that Sy Snootles looks DIRECTLY into the camera, instantly breaking the fourth wall as if to wink at the audience.  Then her co singer does the same thing, only opens his mouth so wide that you can literally see down his throat.  It's downright obnoxious.  (Boba Fett is guilty of this too in the SE of A New Hope when he looks directly into the camera as if to say, hey, did you notice I was shoehorned into this scene too?)  The dark, dangerous atmosphere of the palace suddenly turns into a lighthearted, silly dance number.  While there is humor inherent in the Star Wars series, it shouldn't be when we need to understand the danger of a scene.  This is intercut with the scene of Oola struggling with Jabba, a shot that implies her resisting his sexual advances, and ultimately ends with her being fed to the Rancor below for refusing to give in to him.  Then Sy Snootles says, uh oh, in a cartoonish fashion as Oola is dropped to her death.  How are we as an audience supposed to reconcile those two completely contrasting ideas?  It doesn't make logical sense.  Either the palace is lighthearted and goofy, or it's dark and dangerous.  It can't be both.  Besides, what danger is there for our heroes if the place was goofy?  With no tension, there is no story.  It's as simple as that.

I don't think people need to hate George Lucas.  In fact, I hope they don't.  As I said earlier, none of us know him and from nearly every interview I've seen, he seems like he's actually a really great guy.  But as audience members, as fans, we have every right to either love or hate his choices as an artist.  I think THAT needs to be the distinction going forward. 

 

 
i dont see where the vader added dialouge changes the pace of the movie and i think that your evaluation of that scene is very "nitpicky". and about the band in ROTJ i think what lucas was going for was that it was not supposed to be a scary place unless you upset Jabba, i mean who would want to hang out in a place that they thought was scary? And about the Han shooting first i always thought that Han did shoot first and that Greedo shot right when Han shot him and the impact of Hans shot made Greedo miss, but i really dont understand what all the hate is about i mean it does not change the film at all, and i agree with what Lucas said about the scene, that Han would never kill a person unless he had a reason too. In the SE version Greedo shoots first and then Han shoots, but i dont think that Han would shoot before anyone shot at him. But that is just my opinion.

Offline Onli-Won Kanomi

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Re: This Guy Has The Right Idea
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2014, 01:40:52 PM »
With all due respect to GL the idea that Han Solo would never kill a person unless he had to as a reason for not shooting first is ludicrous and even if true of Han's character wouldn't make sense. Do you think that if a gangbanger got the drop on a cop and was holding him at gun point and the cop could get his hand on say a hidden holdout revolver that he'd WAIT for the gangbanger to shoot FIRST?

"oh I'm very sorry you are uphappy with me Mr Criminal sir, I guess your holding a lethal weapon pointed directly at me whilst describing hostile intentions towards me thus demonstrating means, opportunity and motive to use lethal force to inflict imminent death or grievous boduily harm upon my person does not rise to the level of sufficient justifiable cause for me to use lethal force myself to prevent that therefore please be reassured that I will patiently wait for you to take a 'free shot' only AFTER which IF you don't kill me with your 'free' first shot will I feel justified that I "had to" kill you because I'm the Good Guy and we aren't allowed to ever shoot first its in the Good guy club rules the Bad Guy gets the first freebie otherwise 'wouldn't be sporting' ol chap...so please 'after you alphonse'..."

REALLY George???

Besides it being Darwin-Award worthy terminal stupidity he'd get drummed out of the department for doing something that asinine. If he survived. And if I were him I'd hate to face my old training officer/sergeant after word got around that I'd also put everyone else around at risk by allowing a bad actor a free shot...I expect some R Lee Ermey worthy choice words for that level of imbecility.

But more pointedly Han shot second, at the same time or anything other than Han shot first devalues the entire character arc of ANH which is about the principals BECOMING what at the beginning they are not; Han has his own "Heros Journey' just like Luke but his begins with him very clearly NOT being a hero which Han shot first is intended to underline in bold cap italics big type etc.

WHEN he shoots Greedo first Han Solo is NOT a 'hero' or even 'good guy' Han Solo is himself a BAD GUY...he's not in a "wretched hive of scum and villainy" by accident but because he IS a wretched scum and villain.

He doesn't hesitate and doesn't even think of hesitating and doesn't even CARE about giving Greedo a 'fair fight' and is happy to 'cheap shot' Greedo "better him than me" kid and yes he WOULD kill a person if he didn't have a reason [though he does have every good reason if he was good, which he then isn't] because he is not good he is BAD when he does so at that point of the film and isn't 'good' UNTIL the events of the film reach their denouement when he BECOMES a 'good guy' at the END for coming BACK to the DS to help Luke.

Anything else 'short circuits' Han's own hero's journey which as a student of Joseph Campbell GL surely knows is the journey TO Hero not a journey OF hero. Han shooting anything OTHER than first is utterly incomprehensible in any form of logic - would be tactically incomprehensible in real life, is incomprehensible characterization  in fiction writing and is incomprehensibly ANTI-mythological in the very school of thought [Campbells] that GL bases EVERYTHING else in SW on.

I can't begin to fathom why GL did it since it utterly RUINS Han Solo's character development throughout the entire OT.

I imagine one of his dim kiddles [probably the same one who worte Spider-Maul grr] coming up to him and saying "daddy why'd Han shoot first doesn't that make him a Bad Guy" and instead of honestly saying 'why yes dear at this point in the movie Han IS a Bad Guy he only becomes a Good Guy later" [which might have done the wee bairn a bit of good to introduce her to something a bit more intellectually challenging to contemplate than teletubbies er ewoks] he said "oh of course daddy's lil girl is always right of course SW is meant to be fit for morons and babies so I'll change it for you dearie so you don't have to ever worry your pretty lil head with any moral ambiguity in daddy's film and can grow up to write stupidized Sith spider dreck in my TV show..."

-sigh-



To DREAM the IMPOSSIBLE DREAM. To FIGHT the unbeatable foe. To BEAR with unbearable sorrow. To RUN where the brave dare not go. To RIGHT the unrightable wrong. To LOVE, PURE AND CHASTE, FROM AFAR [-sigh-]. To TRY, when your arms are too weary; to REACH the unreachable Star!... This is my Quest; To follow that Star, no matter how hopeless, no matter how far...

Offline Nicholas.slaydon

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Re: This Guy Has The Right Idea
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2014, 03:20:00 PM »
With all due respect to GL the idea that Han Solo would never kill a person unless he had to as a reason for not shooting first is ludicrous and even if true of Han's character wouldn't make sense. Do you think that if a gangbanger got the drop on a cop and was holding him at gun point and the cop could get his hand on say a hidden holdout revolver that he'd WAIT for the gangbanger to shoot FIRST?

"oh I'm very sorry you are uphappy with me Mr Criminal sir, I guess your holding a lethal weapon pointed directly at me whilst describing hostile intentions towards me thus demonstrating means, opportunity and motive to use lethal force to inflict imminent death or grievous boduily harm upon my person does not rise to the level of sufficient justifiable cause for me to use lethal force myself to prevent that therefore please be reassured that I will patiently wait for you to take a 'free shot' only AFTER which IF you don't kill me with your 'free' first shot will I feel justified that I "had to" kill you because I'm the Good Guy and we aren't allowed to ever shoot first its in the Good guy club rules the Bad Guy gets the first freebie otherwise 'wouldn't be sporting' ol chap...so please 'after you alphonse'..."

REALLY George???

Besides it being Darwin-Award worthy terminal stupidity he'd get drummed out of the department for doing something that asinine. If he survived. And if I were him I'd hate to face my old training officer/sergeant after word got around that I'd also put everyone else around at risk by allowing a bad actor a free shot...I expect some R Lee Ermey worthy choice words for that level of imbecility.

But more pointedly Han shot second, at the same time or anything other than Han shot first devalues the entire character arc of ANH which is about the principals BECOMING what at the beginning they are not; Han has his own "Heros Journey' just like Luke but his begins with him very clearly NOT being a hero which Han shot first is intended to underline in bold cap italics big type etc.

WHEN he shoots Greedo first Han Solo is NOT a 'hero' or even 'good guy' Han Solo is himself a BAD GUY...he's not in a "wretched hive of scum and villainy" by accident but because he IS a wretched scum and villain.

He doesn't hesitate and doesn't even think of hesitating and doesn't even CARE about giving Greedo a 'fair fight' and is happy to 'cheap shot' Greedo "better him than me" kid and yes he WOULD kill a person if he didn't have a reason [though he does have every good reason if he was good, which he then isn't] because he is not good he is BAD when he does so at that point of the film and isn't 'good' UNTIL the events of the film reach their denouement when he BECOMES a 'good guy' at the END for coming BACK to the DS to help Luke.

Anything else 'short circuits' Han's own hero's journey which as a student of Joseph Campbell GL surely knows is the journey TO Hero not a journey OF hero. Han shooting anything OTHER than first is utterly incomprehensible in any form of logic - would be tactically incomprehensible in real life, is incomprehensible characterization  in fiction writing and is incomprehensibly ANTI-mythological in the very school of thought [Campbells] that GL bases EVERYTHING else in SW on.

I can't begin to fathom why GL did it since it utterly RUINS Han Solo's character development throughout the entire OT.

I imagine one of his dim kiddles [probably the same one who worte Spider-Maul grr] coming up to him and saying "daddy why'd Han shoot first doesn't that make him a Bad Guy" and instead of honestly saying 'why yes dear at this point in the movie Han IS a Bad Guy he only becomes a Good Guy later" [which might have done the wee bairn a bit of good to introduce her to something a bit more intellectually challenging to contemplate than teletubbies er ewoks] he said "oh of course daddy's lil girl is always right of course SW is meant to be fit for morons and babies so I'll change it for you dearie so you don't have to ever worry your pretty lil head with any moral ambiguity in daddy's film and can grow up to write stupidized Sith spider dreck in my TV show..."

-sigh-

I don't  believe that Han was a bad guy at the beginning of ANH, I think that he was a person who had good morals but had a bad job. It's like  saying that every drug dealer is a bad person. And like the guy in the video says Star Wars fans who don't like the changes always blow the changes out of proportion "like it was the most horrible moment in cinema" I mean I don't see how it ruins his character development.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 03:45:06 PM by Nicholas.slaydon »

Offline Onli-Won Kanomi

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Re: This Guy Has The Right Idea
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2014, 04:39:11 PM »
It ruins his character development because if Han was ALWAYS the kind of 'good guy' who "would never kill a person unless he had to" from his first significant character scene then becoming a good guy at the end is meaningless - you can't BECOME what you already are - and therefore there IS NO character development for Han. He might just have well kept on going to pay off Jabba while the Rebel alliance died because at the end of that day he could say "I'm the same kind of wouldn't shoot first guy now as I was a wouldn't shoot first guy when I met those crazy old dead rebels and that nutty dead princess who gave me this money to pay you off Jabba now i'll just go back to the cantina where I can be the only good guy there among the wretched scum and villainy which I'm not cuz I'm just slumming my bad job doesn't define me the way my never shoot first policy does only everyone else there who would shoot first oh and people like you too mr crimelord Jabba but hey we know your really a kindly ol puddycat er slug with an unfortunate job."

Btw before ANH changed him Han smuggled Kessel "spice" - that means he WAS a 'drug dealer' [not retail but wholesale] and as for him being the kind who wouldn't shoot without a reason look at his gunbelt. Well worn cut down gunslinger speed rig...illegal overpowered blaster with sniper scope which doesn't exactly have dust and cobwebs on it...and quick draw reflexes to go with it we see in ESB. That's not indicative of a guy reluctant or in any way hesitant to shoot people or one who hasn't had to do it very much or would shoot only when forced into it. We might not have 'canon' stories that Han murdered people, but a little deductive reason paints a pretty clear picture of a guy who was not a poor misunderstood unwilling bystander caught up in a bad situation but nobly nonviolent while waiting for a couple of jedi and rebel pr1ncess to come into his life and rescue him from an unwanted life of crime eh? 
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 04:45:39 PM by Onli-Won Kanomi »
To DREAM the IMPOSSIBLE DREAM. To FIGHT the unbeatable foe. To BEAR with unbearable sorrow. To RUN where the brave dare not go. To RIGHT the unrightable wrong. To LOVE, PURE AND CHASTE, FROM AFAR [-sigh-]. To TRY, when your arms are too weary; to REACH the unreachable Star!... This is my Quest; To follow that Star, no matter how hopeless, no matter how far...

Offline Nicholas.slaydon

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Re: This Guy Has The Right Idea
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2014, 04:59:49 PM »
The character development for Han was about caring for anybody other than himself. And I don't see where you get illegal overpowered blaster. And i never said that han didn't shoot other people first I just said he didn't shoot first in Greedos situation, I just said that I don't think he would shoot first unless he had something to gain or someone was threatining him. I mean Han isn't a mindless killer like you make him out to be.

Offline Professor Huyang

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Re: This Guy Has The Right Idea
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2014, 05:13:36 PM »
This thread is getting a little personal, I think. Lets all agree to disagree on this subject and lock it up before people get heated over this.
"Many years I have been on this ship teaching many a Jedi before you, and I will continue teaching many a Jedi after you. Call me what you want, but inside my memory banks I contain a record of every lightsaber ever made, and the Jedi who fashioned it."
―Huyang


 

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