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Dueling Society => Dueling with your Lightsaber => Topic started by: cyclops on September 03, 2008, 12:59:22 AM

Title: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: cyclops on September 03, 2008, 12:59:22 AM
Latley I have been researching the 7 forms of the old Jedi Order and how these are performed
but my research is incomplete. I have found no videos for Form 2, Form 6 and Form 7.


Below I have made a list of the youtube vids that I have found for anybody who has not seen them (hard to believe  :D) Absolutly brilliant. My thanks to the state Jedi's
and all other persons involved in the making of these vids, they are very educational and I bet fun to make. Thanks!

FORM 1:
Shii-Cho: Section 1 .

-Awesome moves

Shii-Cho Applied Mechanics & Theory

-Absolutely brilliant

FORM 2:
Makashi - None Found
-Does anyone know how this is performed?, wookieepedia is vague on the details.

FORM 3:
Soresu

-I think this has to be my favorite form so far. Great work.

FORM 4:
Ataru

-This looks very difficult but a brilliant vid.

FORM 5:
Djem So

-quite dark and short but looks great
Shien
-before the form evolved into Djem so - None Found

FORM 6:
Niman - None found

FORM 7:
Juyo/Vaapad - None Found

Are the above Star Wars Canon?
Can anyone help out with the missing forms? Do they exist? If not then can they be created?
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Firith Tar on September 03, 2008, 06:34:37 AM
Well I would not call these "research" as the videos are interpretations meaning they are guessing… now that said of course these styles do not exist since well Star Wars isn’t real either… wow how negative, well on a positive note they all look good minus the Ataru this is ridicules in every sense!!! As far as the forms being canon they are, there description state the theory of the form not how to perform them. If you want to see the forms watch Star Wars as Qui-Gon is Ataru as well as Yoda and Obi-wan(TMP only), Obi-wan after TMP is Soresu Anakin is Djem So/Shien, Count Dooku is Makashi, and Mace is Vaapad. I hope this helps
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Ebon on September 03, 2008, 07:10:25 AM
There is a book called "Jedi vs Sith: the complete guide to the Force"  That has a section that lists various practitioners of each style and what the idea behind the style was.  I think of them more as fighting philosophies than as specific techiques (especially since it is fictional of course) but I change my styles and even attacking/defending angles as I spar to throw off my opponent and keep them guessing as to which angles or even parts of the blade I am attacking with so the philosophies approach just fits my mindset better than forms and such.  I don't have it with me, but I'll try and remember to look it up when I get home and see who went with what style.

Ebon
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: HAN SOLO on September 03, 2008, 07:58:39 AM
I had created what my impression was of and what was described of Vaapad. I was going to be for my demo for my Negotiator. But I am unsatsified at the moment with it. A few Members have seen the forms, but I don't feel they are BMFy enough! :D Eventually I'll get one going, but not for a bit. I've seen some of these vids, and they are pretty creative. Th Ataru is a bit...arial, but isn't it supposed to be. ;D

Makashi, I always thought of it as a "flashy fencer", as Christopher Lee prides himself on being a good fencer in his day and Kyle Rowling was to present a similar format, Jedi style, when he "fought" CGI Yoda. :o
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: darthmorbius on September 03, 2008, 11:14:52 AM
Form 7 Juyo/Vapaad is MACE WINDU's Style.  AOTC and ROTS show this.

NIMAN is a Dual saber syle Used by Revan, Joclad Danva, Plo Koon, and even Anakin Skywalker at times.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Darth Kaos on September 03, 2008, 11:38:22 AM
Wow, I didn't know Revan was a Niman practitioner. I always thought that he was a Djem So user
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: ASAJJ VENTRESS on September 03, 2008, 08:13:35 PM
I had created what my impression was of and what was described of Vaapad. I was going to be for my demo for my Negotiator. But I am unsatsified at the moment with it. A few Members have seen the forms, but I don't feel they are BMFy enough! :D Eventually I'll get one going, but not for a bit. I've seen some of these vids, and they are pretty creative. Th Ataru is a bit...arial, but isn't it supposed to be. ;D

Makashi, I always thought of it as a "flashy fencer", as Christopher Lee prides himself on being a good fencer in his day and Kyle Rowling was to present a similar format, Jedi style, when he "fought" CGI Yoda. :o

I'm really looking forward to seeing that vid when you make it Han.  I've taken all those Quizilla quizzes and such to find my saber style, and against all reason, logic, and multiple universes, have been consistently told that this is the style I would use.  I'd love to see the style done right.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Darth Raijlin on September 03, 2008, 08:29:05 PM
Wow, I didn't know Revan was a Niman practitioner. I always thought that he was a Djem So user

In KOTOR 2 when you enter the one level, you see an image of Revan in the past.  He is holding 2 sabers.  It's considered cannon that he utilized two.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: cyclops on September 04, 2008, 12:34:43 AM
Quote
If you want to see the forms watch Star Wars

No problem there except that, we are mostly seeing the combat applications of the form. Which is great but I would really like to see the full form

There is a book called "Jedi vs Sith: the complete guide to the Force"  That has a section that lists various practitioners of each style and what the idea behind the style was.  I think of them more as fighting philosophies than as specific techiques (especially since it is fictional of course) but I change my styles and even attacking/defending angles as I spar to throw off my opponent and keep them guessing as to which angles or even parts of the blade I am attacking with so the philosophies approach just fits my mindset better than forms and such.  I don't have it with me, but I'll try and remember to look it up when I get home and see who went with what style.

Logically i dont see how a form could be used in a battle either but aren't the forms there to learn the basis of the movements? i.e strength, speed and coordination etc? This is just from the top of my head, so please let me know if im wrong?  :)

Wow, I didn't know Revan was a Niman practitioner. I always thought that he was a Djem So user

In KOTOR 2 when you enter the one level, you see an image of Revan in the past.  He is holding 2 sabers.  It's considered cannon that he utilized two.

Found this on Wookieepedia "Jar'Kai is a subform of Niman and is one of the oldest forms of lightsaber combat, a dual blade wielding technique."
And a little more from Wookieepedia "The application of Jar'Kai also exists as a tactic instead of a completely independent style, one example includes Sora Bulq, who utilized Jar'Kai in conjunction with Vaapad."

There are many more techniques/other forms listed but im in way over my head!  ;D
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on September 04, 2008, 03:27:47 AM
I recetly undertook a design project for sabers for each of the 7 old order forms and in my research I found these sources among others that y'all might find interesting in this discussion:


http://www.starwars.com/games/videogames/news20080728.html

This seems mostly to acquaint players of the new weapon-fighting-game Soul Calibur IV with the basics of lightsaber combat but it is clearly explained and there are pictures of the forms being used in-film as well as in-game [I do notice though that Coleman Trebor is described as using Form III Soresu when he falls to Jango Fett whereas most other sources say he was a master of Form VI Niman]



http://lightsaberguide.darkjedibrotherhood.com/LightsaberGuide.pdf

This is more in depth though it was written for a videogaming clan so is also a bit skewed to game dynamics...but still informative and beautifully laid out...I just wish it showed diagrams of each technique listed for each form [also you'll need a .pdf reader like adobe acrobat reader to read it]



http://www.freewebs.com/lightsaber_training/

Komalis Jedi Order has put together interesting articles including these on saber forms...after reading the first page basic guide click on each form listed on the left for a considerably more in depth analysis...again not all diagrammed but much of it's techniques are at least described with attacks and/or defences claimed to be appropriate for the various forms...very interesting imo.

Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: HAN SOLO on September 04, 2008, 08:43:39 AM
Well, this is really an interesting set of articles, especially the Dark Jedi Brotherhood "manual". I booked marked it and it is a reference point I am utilizing for my "view" on Vapaad Form. I gotta have a alternate view of sword techniques aside from Iaido and Kenjutsu. ;)
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on September 04, 2008, 01:45:22 PM
Yes I particularly like the idea in that of Vaapad having no stances. I despise the very notion of stances.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Darth Kaos on September 04, 2008, 02:11:33 PM
Wow, I didn't know Revan was a Niman practitioner. I always thought that he was a Djem So user

In KOTOR 2 when you enter the one level, you see an image of Revan in the past.  He is holding 2 sabers.  It's considered cannon that he utilized two.
Thanks, Darth. I recently purchased an old-school Xbox to play KOTOR 1 and 2. I'm still at the beginning of KOTOR 1 and will be playing the Force Unleashed once it comes out  ;)
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: cyclops on September 05, 2008, 12:53:52 AM
It would be great if the none camera shy members could fill in the gaps so we have a complete compilation of the 7 forms with all the techniques for a true Jedi/Sith lightsaber form reference.
I would give it a go but to be honest all the reading from wookieepedia without a visual aid makes my head spin.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Dark Jedi Sarkieros on September 05, 2008, 01:42:25 PM
I love the look of the ataru form, very inspiring ;D
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: cyclops on September 15, 2008, 03:35:03 AM
I have a question about how to grip your saber when using Shii-Cho and Makashi.

According to Wookieepedia  'In Shii-Cho form, a lightsaber is held by putting one hand on the very top, and another hand on the bottom. On the top hand, pressure was applied to the 4th finger, 5th finger, and the thumb, as if one could fight without the 3rd and 2nd fingers. The bottom hand was maneuvered in a push-pulled motion.'

My question is why, Why does this grip apply only to this form and what makes it better than a full finger/hand grip or even the Makashi grip?

Moving onto Makashi. Having read this http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Curved-hilt_lightsaber (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Curved-hilt_lightsaber) and this http://forcefx.proboards43.com/index.cgi?board=dueling&action=display&thread=4421 (http://forcefx.proboards43.com/index.cgi?board=dueling&action=display&thread=4421) I believe I understand why the curved saber is important but the grip (another excerpt from wookeepedia) 'The lightsaber hilt would be held with the thumb pointing down the length of the blade to allow for smaller, tighter, more accurate movements of the saber. The rest of the fingers wrap around the hilt holding it tightly, but not so tight as to limit the fluidity of the movements.'

Does this only apply to Makashi or can it be used with other forms and/or techniques?

Hope i made sense with my questions, if not just say and I will try to rethink that which im trying to discover  ;D
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: HAN SOLO on September 15, 2008, 05:12:02 AM
I have a question about how to grip your saber when using Shii-Cho and Makashi.

According to Wookieepedia  'In Shii-Cho form, a lightsaber is held by putting one hand on the very top, and another hand on the bottom. On the top hand, pressure was applied to the 4th finger, 5th finger, and the thumb, as if one could fight without the 3rd and 2nd fingers. The bottom hand was maneuvered in a push-pulled motion.'

My question is why, Why does this grip apply only to this form and what makes it better than a full finger/hand grip or even the Makashi grip?

This most likely stems from Kenjutsu, probably whoever wrote it either studied Martial Arts or it came from Nick Gillard in his Jedi Techniques. This application is very practical to an experienced Kenjutsu Martial Artist as it allows for more fluent slashes and better body positioning. Yes, believe it or not, the index finger will guide the rest of the body. In Aikido, (Which stems from Iaido and Kenjutsu) the baby finger is where Ki flows from and the Index finger does all the directional pointing. Apply this, through practice and your swings are more direct, yet manueverable, and more powerful than a full grip. Now incorporate your whole body and Shii-Cho may be realised. ;)

I hope this helps. But this is just my humble opinion and experience. 8)
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Ebon on September 15, 2008, 06:13:02 AM
I think as far as the curved hilt goes, it would be more of a personal preference of the user instead of a requirment for the Makashi style. 

(I had read somewhere that the curved hilt in the movie was done because Christopher Lee had trouble gripping the straight handle, some thing about Arthritis, but I don't know if that is truth or rumor). 

You will notice though that if you grip the curved handle further down away from the blade right in the middle of the curve, you can change the attitude of the blade by simply squeezing the bottom two fingers, making for very precise tip control, much like some modern sport fencing pistol grips.   Alot of the curved one handed swords (Chinese ring swords, Hungarian sabers, etc) had slightly curved grips to allow more blade control when swinging onehanded as it can get difficult to stop the blade or alter its path once your hand starts getting tired. 

It looks like to me when Dooku is fighting in ROTS and before, he is gripping with the thumb and forefinger in a circle, allowing the blade to pivot and roll easily in his hand, then applying pressure with the little finger and ring finger to apply quick snapping cuts after the rolls.

The wookiepeedia describes how Christopher Lee is shown holding it, but not how his stand in is actually using it in my opinion.  Holding the thumb down the grip limits the ability to roll the blade as he is shown doing in the movie.
I will have to put that in tonight and look a little closer.

Ebon
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Firith Tar on September 15, 2008, 11:37:42 AM
I think as far as the curved hilt goes, it would be more of a personal preference of the user instead of a requirment for the Makashi style. 

(I had read somewhere that the curved hilt in the movie was done because Christopher Lee had trouble gripping the straight handle, some thing about Arthritis, but I don't know if that is truth or rumor). 

You will notice though that if you grip the curved handle further down away from the blade right in the middle of the curve, you can change the attitude of the blade by simply squeezing the bottom two fingers, making for very precise tip control, much like some modern sport fencing pistol grips.   Alot of the curved one handed swords (Chinese ring swords, Hungarian sabers, etc) had slightly curved grips to allow more blade control when swinging onehanded as it can get difficult to stop the blade or alter its path once your hand starts getting tired. 

It looks like to me when Dooku is fighting in ROTS and before, he is gripping with the thumb and forefinger in a circle, allowing the blade to pivot and roll easily in his hand, then applying pressure with the little finger and ring finger to apply quick snapping cuts after the rolls.

The wookiepeedia describes how Christopher Lee is shown holding it, but not how his stand in is actually using it in my opinion.  Holding the thumb down the grip limits the ability to roll the blade as he is shown doing in the movie.
I will have to put that in tonight and look a little closer.

Ebon

Ebon you are correct in every way about the function!!! As always  ;D to Ebon we must listen...
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Ebon on September 15, 2008, 12:27:58 PM
Thanks Firith  ;D

And I think Han hit it on the head with the Shii Cho grip, sounds just like the standard Japanese grip, though he has alot more experience with that particular style than I do.  I haven't done much with katana other than books and some experimentation of my own and sparring.

The book I have (Jedi vs Sith: Essential guide to the Force)  lists all the styles and their overall philosophy, but nothing really about the techniques.  I think it will be pretty hard to emulate some of them since we can't actually recreate the blaster blocking, etc.  Ataru will be hard unless you have an Olympic gymnast handy as we don't have any Force assisted jumping available as well hehe...   I'm really kicking around doing my own takes on some of them though, sounds fun...

Ebon

Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Firith Tar on September 15, 2008, 12:33:28 PM
Yes Han of course is right, that is expected as he is the Japanese Sword arts guru!!! I pale in comparision.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: cyclops on September 16, 2008, 06:47:13 AM
Awesome, Thanks Ebon and Han. Youre experience has totally helped me in understanding the Shii-cho and Makashi grips.
Im gonna have to incorporate these into my next Saber session.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: HAN SOLO on September 16, 2008, 09:44:14 AM
Yes Han of course is right, that is expected as he is the Japanese Sword arts guru!!! I pale in comparision.

 :-[ Thanks. However, Master Logan is the true Japanese Sword Arts Guru here on this Site. You need answers, he's smarter than I on Japanese Sword ways, physically and spiritually. ;) (My few years of experience pale to his decades of training. ;))

Love the link you sent me, Firith. Some really humbling info on there.

Cyclops, since Jedi and Sith combat is a variant of real world arts, try and incorporate what you feel comfortable with, all the while referrencing and resourcing the links and posts on the thread.

Who knows, perhaps we'll have a "One-Eye, Zero In" precise technique! ;)
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Firith Tar on September 16, 2008, 12:46:32 PM
Yes Han of course is right, that is expected as he is the Japanese Sword arts guru!!! I pale in comparision.

 :-[ Thanks. However, Master Logan is the true Japanese Sword Arts Guru here on this Site. You need answers, he's smarter than I on Japanese Sword ways, physically and spiritually. ;) (My few years of experience pale to his decades of training. ;))

Love the link you sent me, Firith. Some really humbling info on there.

Cyclops, since Jedi and Sith combat is a variant of real world arts, try and incorporate what you feel comfortable with, all the while referrencing and resourcing the links and posts on the thread.

Who knows, perhaps we'll have a "One-Eye, Zero In" precise technique! ;)

No problem you are talking to a guy who is looking around my desk and am seeing; Warriors of medieval Japan, and Samurai : the world of the warrior (Stephen Turnbull) along with The shabhala guid to Kendo (Minoru Kiyota) Iai : the art of dwaing the sword (Darrell Max Craig), Secrets of the Samurai : a survey of the martial arts of Feudal Japan (Oscar Ratti, Adele Westbrook), Sword and Brush : the spirit of the martial arts (Dave Lowry), Aikido Toho Iai (Micheal Russ), Prctice drills for japanese swordsmanship (Nicklaus Suino) Kodo ancient ways (Kensho Furuya), The martial artist's book of the five rings : the definitive interpretation of Miyamoto Musashi's classic book of Strategy (Stephen F. Kaufman).... and that is without getting up  ;D but like you only have a few years of real experience so my knowledge is shallow....
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: cyclops on September 17, 2008, 02:29:03 AM
Quote
Cyclops, since Jedi and Sith combat is a variant of real world arts, try and incorporate what you feel comfortable with, all the while referrencing and resourcing the links and posts on the thread.

Train as a Jedi I must  :) Great Advice! Thanks, Hopefully I will be able to create a sweet looking choreography routine, which is what I love about Star Wars, amongst the great story!

Quote
Who knows, perhaps we'll have a "One-Eye, Zero In" precise technique!

That would be cool. Just yesterday a friend and I were practicing our stage combat from the tutorial posted by Kit Fisto. I believe this should be the true first form. Whilst incorporating the Jedi training technique known as velocities , suffice it to say his technique was spot on, almost lost my eye  ;D
More practice for me I thinks.  :D
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: HAN SOLO on October 06, 2008, 10:58:23 PM
Aikido Toho Iai (Micheal Russ)

GREAT TUTORIAL and APPLIED Book!

I love how it incorporates ALL of the tatics. Whether it is unarmed, armed or the brief, but very informative History.

Cyclops, being a bit of a stikler, but no links allowed in your Sig. (Just Mods and Saber Guild Members)

Just place it in your profile and type in your Sig something like...."Hey check out my profile, there's some cool stuff in it." ;)
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Ramaditya on October 11, 2008, 08:45:40 PM
Well, it will probably be helpful for me if someone can describe each form through words, such as how the position of the body and the saber must be, or how to perform the technique.

(I cannot see videos, sorry)
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Tulak Hord on March 06, 2009, 10:21:30 AM
Personally, ive been working on developing all the style's of combat in starwars as well as some of my own lightsaber combat forms. Being I use a double bladed lightsaber it is very important that I understand bo staff forms, as well as spear and sword forms. I have training in Kendo, Hema, Fencing, Escrima, as well as some Kung fu Staff training. So far I have completed shii-cho. The first form is the basics of sword play. The second form in shii-cho is based on attack and defense, the third form is based on movement and the fourth and final form is the most complex dedicated to disarming your opponent. This fourth part of this form is broke into four sections. First, cut the opponents weapon hand, Second, Cut weapon arm, Thrid Cut saber or remove from hand, Fourth  is glancing blows to cut the tendons and make the weapon arm useless.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Jedi Knight Logan on March 06, 2009, 11:30:46 AM
Haven't seen anything in this thread for awhile... :D

My humble recommendation is to seek training in some type of classical swordsmanship. Keep in mind, the lightsaber choreography we've all come to associate w/ lightsaber combat takes it's roots from stage sword whcih takes it's roots from real world swordsmanship. This does take a commitment on the part of the enthusiast... but the rewards are worth it. ;) If you become proficient in a particular sword art weilding a saber is cake.  :)
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Darth Magnus on March 06, 2009, 02:04:32 PM
Of all the quizilla quizzes  i get vaapad every time
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: wookieecrisp on March 08, 2009, 09:13:55 AM
This is my Lightsaber Form Index. If I missed a tutorial or demo please shoot me a PM. Thanks! ;)


FORM I - SHII-CHO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA49Y0AwypM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA49Y0AwypM) Shii-Cho Tutorial 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXVctA5cV3c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXVctA5cV3c) Shii-Cho Tutorial 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfeqnR7H8BI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfeqnR7H8BI) Shii-Cho Tutorial 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZF9LBaiI-k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZF9LBaiI-k) Shii-Cho Tutorial 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SD5Ee3knco (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SD5Ee3knco) Grip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVY9gT6W0Qk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVY9gT6W0Qk) Demo 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La7aBRXAuPg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La7aBRXAuPg) Demo 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-roAXmFNhY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-roAXmFNhY) Demo 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0OLlYLB2fA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0OLlYLB2fA) Applied Mechanics and Theory
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50q6k4dKBNg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50q6k4dKBNg) Demo with a staff  :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsM2fiS0vTg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsM2fiS0vTg) Choreography Practice - Vs. Ataru

FORM II - MAKASHI
Not much here...yet.  :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SD5Ee3knco (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SD5Ee3knco) Grip

FORM III - SORESU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=117S0-OiP1I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=117S0-OiP1I) Tutorial 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDvO5F8ti8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDvO5F8ti8I) Tutorial 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NlpQAphPAs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NlpQAphPAs) Beginning Tutorial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSDwtqR_8c4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSDwtqR_8c4) Advanced Tutorial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Gh_4M4Ewig (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Gh_4M4Ewig) Martial Arts Tutorial

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRp2deklvis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRp2deklvis) Demo 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb91LbmMG5I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb91LbmMG5I) Demo 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaUNROzPCpE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaUNROzPCpE) Demo 3 might be hard to learn from

FORM IV - ATARU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84JpgPm_MVI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84JpgPm_MVI) Tutorial 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc7A8GiVh88 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc7A8GiVh88) Tutorial 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnSBuiLyY8U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnSBuiLyY8U) Demo 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKBelymMRxE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKBelymMRxE) Demo 2 (for lefties)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y4SpqKPm7U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y4SpqKPm7U) Demo 3 (crazy wushu)  ;D ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsM2fiS0vTg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsM2fiS0vTg&feature=related) Choreography Practice (vs Shii-Cho)

FORM V - DJEM SO/SHIEN

DJEM SO
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8uYOh0psHw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8uYOh0psHw) Tutorial 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlebfDXFFSw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlebfDXFFSw) Tutorial 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ipk79L6BH4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ipk79L6BH4) Demo 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYG1-3JTOA4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYG1-3JTOA4) Demo 2

SHIEN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl0AH0MjLSk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl0AH0MjLSk) Tutorial 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvspUsuIFUU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvspUsuIFUU) Tutorial 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeqI0AJHSHY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeqI0AJHSHY) Reverse Grip Strikes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZzhTFWsN0w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZzhTFWsN0w) Demo at full speed

 FORM VI - NIMAN

None...  :( :(

FORM VII - JUYO/VAAPAD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNlrnbzgvxE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNlrnbzgvxE) Demo 1 (both in dark)

VAAPAD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frQuOrWtuYs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frQuOrWtuYs) Tutorial 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7cLSUrG6-I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7cLSUrG6-I) Demo 1

JUYO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCJZvoqUYNU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCJZvoqUYNU) Tutorial 1 (saber staff)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdVNACAuipw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdVNACAuipw) Tutorial 2 (single saber)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH2ORbcJ5CQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH2ORbcJ5CQ) Demo 1 (both staff and single)

FORM X - JAR-KAI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kjaabu3dMI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kjaabu3dMI) Tutorial 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXdP-BZ5m88 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXdP-BZ5m88) Demo 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irruQxjdas4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irruQxjdas4) Demo with 3 blades!
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: cyclops on March 08, 2009, 10:15:23 AM
Thanks wookieecrisp thats a nice list.

Ive always thought it would be great if Mr Lucas would authorize and or produce something like this. (you know a choreography DVD like the ones where you can learn dance moves from the movies!)  I dont know why he hasnt because as you say 'Everyone wants to learn a lightsaber form.' Im sure it would be additional revenue for him/his team also. But anyway Im glad there are people out there who like to share there take on the lightsaber forms, it gives people like me something fun to do!  ;D
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: darth_call on March 08, 2009, 10:29:33 AM
Good job Wookiecrisp! Thanks for organizing it nicely.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: QUI-GON JINN on March 08, 2009, 10:34:40 AM
I think might need to be stickied!
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: HAN SOLO on March 08, 2009, 10:40:14 AM
I think there's another Topic just like this, but not as in depth. If I find it, I'll give it the old merge-a-roo. :D

*UPDATED*

After 1 quick type in of "Lightsaber Forms", I found it. Please use the Search Function next time. Just call it an update of the current Topic. Thank you.

HAN SOLO
MTFBWY
THE FX-SABERS ADMINISTRATION TEAM
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Tulak Hord on March 08, 2009, 11:06:13 AM
The problem I have with the people from NY/LA etc. jedi's forms is they are more coreograph oriented. When I complete all of my forms in depth, instead of fitting with the wookiepedia only they will be based on waht is seen in the movies and already existing sword play and things that i make up. Im going to make them primarily for duels etc. I have compiled a large amount of video's and downloaded them to cd's and ive been slo moing them. Ill post links to a demonstration of all the forms ive made when i finish them. A word of warning tho. They wont just be one simple form. Each will be large enough, with enough forms and ways to practice them to be considered a martial art on their own. Similar too how they are described in starwars.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Darth Magnus on March 08, 2009, 11:50:12 AM
:( no vaapad
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: wookieecrisp on March 08, 2009, 02:38:30 PM
Oh yeah! I gotta sticky!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D :D :) :) :) :) :)

:( no vaapad

Magnus the guy who made some of those tuts (samfisherrules on youtube) will make tutorials for all lightsaber forms not done by NY/LA jedi soon.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Darth Magnus on March 08, 2009, 05:02:48 PM
yes
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: HAN SOLO on March 08, 2009, 05:46:05 PM
I took some Iaido, Kenjutsu and some of Mace's Movie moves and labelled it Vaapad Forms 1, 2, 3. I just don't don't know where it is right now. Ebon's seen it, as DT. I just may have lost it on my old computer.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Caine on March 09, 2009, 11:41:33 AM
Hi everyone,

Before I get into the 7 Forms of Lightsaber comments, please allow me to introduce mysef - since I couldn't find any threads on "introductions" on here.

My name is Caine Drathul and I am an active member of Saberwars. I am also associated with the LA Jedi, although I live a bit far from them to be an official member I visit them twice a year and am glad to call them friends.

I am also a forms developer. I have developed the following forms as of now: Ataru and Shien. I am going to work on Juyo and Vaapad next, followed by Jar-Kai. Once the Dooku FX saber comes out, Makashi will soon follow. Niman is a form I consider an "open" form, and since it's a combo of the first 5 forms, I will just leave that one be and figure people will make their own version.

I understand that these forms aren't real...they are purely for show and fun. I do NOT think that my forms are actual combative forms and I completely understand the difference between real and fictional combat.

I hold a 5th degree black belt under Master Ernie Reyes Sr. and have extensive training in Tae Kwon Do, Muay Thai Kickboxing, Eskrima and Brazillian Ju-Jitsu and have studied various other martial arts concepts. I am also an Inayan Martial Arts Instructor and have had extensive training in kobudo weaponry - nunchaku, sai, kama, bo staff, tonfa, etc.

Please view my YouTube Channel:
for these and other saber dueling info.

My focus is to create forms that ANYONE and EVERYONE in the saber community can do, whether they practice martial arts or not. If you want to use my forms and add to them some of your own flare, please be my guest. I am big practitioner of NY Jedi's Soresu and my karate demo team uses it in our saber demos...but I modded it here and there to fit out needs. Since the forms aren't canon, we can do with them as we please...just as any other form...martial or not.

Glad to be on here.  :)

Caine Drathul
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: OBI-WAN KENOBI on March 09, 2009, 11:52:06 AM
Welcome to the forum, caine - glad to have you here.  8)

Your youtube vids are nicely done.  ;)
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: wookieecrisp on March 09, 2009, 12:20:24 PM
Hi everyone,

Before I get into the 7 Forms of Lightsaber comments, please allow me to introduce mysef - since I couldn't find any threads on "introductions" on here.

My name is Caine Drathul and I am an active member of Saberwars. I am also associated with the LA Jedi, although I live a bit far from them to be an official member I visit them twice a year and am glad to call them friends.

I am also a forms developer. I have developed the following forms as of now: Ataru and Shien. I am going to work on Juyo and Vaapad next, followed by Jar-Kai. Once the Dooku FX saber comes out, Makashi will soon follow. Niman is a form I consider an "open" form, and since it's a combo of the first 5 forms, I will just leave that one be and figure people will make their own version.

I understand that these forms aren't real...they are purely for show and fun. I do NOT think that my forms are actual combative forms and I completely understand the difference between real and fictional combat.

I hold a 5th degree black belt under Master Ernie Reyes Sr. and have extensive training in Tae Kwon Do, Muay Thai Kickboxing, Eskrima and Brazillian Ju-Jitsu and have studied various other martial arts concepts. I am also an Inayan Martial Arts Instructor and have had extensive training in kobudo weaponry - nunchaku, sai, kama, bo staff, tonfa, etc.

Please view my YouTube Channel:
for these and other saber dueling info.

My focus is to create forms that ANYONE and EVERYONE in the saber community can do, whether they practice martial arts or not. If you want to use my forms and add to them some of your own flare, please be my guest. I am big practitioner of NY Jedi's Soresu and my karate demo team uses it in our saber demos...but I modded it here and there to fit out needs. Since the forms aren't canon, we can do with them as we please...just as any other form...martial or not.

Glad to be on here.  :)

Caine Drathul


Welcome to the forums! As you can see some of the links in my index link to your awesome vids. Keep making tutorials!  ;) :) :)


Wookiee
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Tulak Hord on March 09, 2009, 12:41:05 PM
Welcome to the forum  ;D
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: The Highwayman on March 09, 2009, 12:48:54 PM
I know nothing of any form moves, but can rattle off their names and practitioners at any given moment. ;D I fight guerrilla style. Very unsubtle and crude. Similar to Vapaad, since my attacks are unpredictable and fast. Mostly just unpredictable. :D

As for you Tulak Hord, I keep thinking you Je-rel every time I see your avi. ::) ;D Her's is identical, so no offense meant. ;) 8)

I actually have what i call the SC form (Screaming Chicken form) It combines a lot of noise and a series of sudden, crazed saber strikes. Never uncontrolled, but nearly so. :D It's what I use in sparring with meesa pallos.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Darth Magnus on March 09, 2009, 01:16:26 PM
welcome 
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: wookieecrisp on March 09, 2009, 01:20:44 PM
I actually have what i call the SC form (Screaming Chicken form) It combines a lot of noise and a series of sudden, crazed saber strikes. Never uncontrolled, but nearly so. :D It's what I use in sparring with meesa pallos.


 ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: The Highwayman on March 09, 2009, 03:02:58 PM
You think I'm kidding, but it really is how I fight. :o Lots of noise for confusion and rapid, powerful blows  in a unpredictable manor. ;D ;D It's very much like a mixture of Vapaad and of Ataru.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Tulak Hord on March 09, 2009, 04:00:09 PM
I know nothing of any form moves, but can rattle off their names and practitioners at any given moment. ;D I fight guerrilla style. Very unsubtle and crude. Similar to Vapaad, since my attacks are unpredictable and fast. Mostly just unpredictable. :D

As for you Tulak Hord, I keep thinking you Je-rel every time I see your avi. ::) ;D Her's is identical, so no offense meant. ;) 8)

I actually have what i call the SC form (Screaming Chicken form) It combines a lot of noise and a series of sudden, crazed saber strikes. Never uncontrolled, but nearly so. :D It's what I use in sparring with meesa pallos.


Interesting form. Perhaps you would be willing to post a tutorial on this screaming chicken form? Lol. But anyways. I would recomend watching all the lightsaber duels repeatedly in slow mo and studying the moves. My single straight hilt lightsaber style is mostly Djem So, Juyo/Vaapad and Soresu mixed. For some reason ive been recently favoring the single hilt over my past favorite double bladed saber. Ive been comming up against more skilled opponents. When somone is very skilled and you have to spin the saber around your body to build momentum or strike/block your like a moving target. With the single bladed saber you have more movement and a better advantage. Ive been thinking about a DOuble bladed saber that splits in two lol.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: The Highwayman on March 09, 2009, 04:30:33 PM
I I had access to a camera, I'd gladly post one. But it wouldn't be much of a tutorial as there is only about 5 set patterns and only 7 attacks. Mostly swash buckling and shoulder to hip style with two hands.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Tulak Hord on March 12, 2009, 05:12:51 PM
Ok, I tried to be patient with the NY jedi forms/etc. but i cant find as many relations too the movie forms or anything useable in duels to my standards at least. Their also isnt any reasonable aplication for anything but shii cho, but as i recall shii cho is a form dedicated to disarming a person not cutting him in 3 places. Their also arent any velocities, and their isnt any sequences (sets of attacks like boxing combos) I think im just going to go back to trying to make the forms myself based on the movies and the descriptions I can find. I think that my bread and butter will be Djemso so expect alot on that. I will of course expand on the other forms to the best of my ability. ;D

-edit,
also im going to blend them and add to them to create the Fast, Medium, and Strong forms from the "New Jedi Order" then im going to create every other style in the movies and eu, then im going to turn it all into one martial art designed to lightsaber fighting. Also, ive found that their are practical batton fighting capabilities to lightsaber fighting. YOu could use these forms in strikes with a self defense batton :D.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Big Boss on March 14, 2009, 09:06:53 AM
looking forward to your videos Tulak Hord :)
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Darth Magnus on March 26, 2009, 04:12:31 PM
so wheres the videos?
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Tulak Hord on March 26, 2009, 06:44:20 PM
so wheres the videos?

Ive been busier then i wished to be. Im sorry about the delay, but Ive been busy with school, work, and family. These things take priority. Ill post the video's when i can get around to making them. I hope that you guys understand.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Darth Magnus on March 26, 2009, 06:47:54 PM
i totally understand  ;D
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: ASAJJ VENTRESS on March 28, 2009, 08:18:33 PM
I personally can't wait to see what you've created here.  Maybe you could also discuss more details about your specific sources for each of the styles. I'm curious as to your process for developing these forms, and your research into the practical baton applications.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Tulak Hord on April 14, 2009, 07:37:22 PM
I personally can't wait to see what you've created here.  Maybe you could also discuss more details about your specific sources for each of the styles. I'm curious as to your process for developing these forms, and your research into the practical baton applications.

Well, I have a bit of time, so perhaps I can explain. For now, ive been working on Shii-Cho the most. Ive been using Kendo as the main martial art for this form as it is somewhat simplistic and fits the description on Wookiepedia. Ive got alot of Kendo experience imho, so I find this form comes somewhat natural. I find it to be hard to make a specific form so awhile ago I broke up the forms I had into sequences, somewhat like what Kass'im teaches in Darth Bane Path Of Destruction. Their are sets of 2-15 moves per sequence, and the more you learn per form the more knowledge you would have of it. I just need to find how should I put this.... Follow up moves for each sequence so it transfers smoothly into the next. It seems like Shii-Cho, and Makashi fit my skill set the most at this time, so get ready for some video's. At first I was going to make it a DvD and make some money off it, but I realize thats not really my bread and butter atm. Soon ill post some video's on youtube. I have one on youtube, but its a childs form, its a few sequences ive made from NY jedi Shii-Cho and put into a form very similar so me and my little cousin could fight. At this time id rather not post that up because my filmer has been a mean person lately and messes up my video's. If your intrested in seeing it, either try to find it on youtube or send me a Pm. Soon im redoing my video's when I can afford a tripod as money is tight at the moment. Im sorry to bore you with the long post but im very inactive as of late, I spend my time rping on Force-Fx.com my name is Infectus, if your intrested look me up. As of now I mainly just read here. Ok, fine ive thought about it heres my youtube link, but dont laugh at me I broke my knee so i put on weight but then lost alot.

Youtube.com/Kegbeard
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Jm419 on April 17, 2009, 06:01:17 PM
I, as a fencer, am quite adept at something which is very similar to Makashi Style Fighting.  If anyone's interested, lmk.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Sith Stalker on April 26, 2009, 12:18:55 PM
Thank you those videos were really helpful.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Caine on April 26, 2009, 01:44:40 PM
I, as a fencer, am quite adept at something which is very similar to Makashi Style Fighting.  If anyone's interested, lmk.

I am wanting to put together a version of Makashi...but I have zero fencing experience. Collaboration is always great!
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Halo Byse on June 18, 2009, 06:33:42 PM
Hey JM419!

Can you send me a video with some fencing moves?

I'm trying hard to learn Form II but I need some pointers.

Thanks in advance :)

Just so you guys don't think I'm just asking and not contributing, I'm creating a Form I and Form VI (basics) tutorial, I'll send it to Youtube as soon as it's ready.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Caine on June 18, 2009, 08:09:32 PM
FYI all,

I picked up a vid from my good friends at LA Jedi on Makashi that was developed by one of their members.  I plan on learning it and making a tutorial but I want to wait until I get the Dooku saber...so it's done with the proper saber!
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: wookieecrisp on June 19, 2009, 06:44:18 AM

Just so you guys don't think I'm just asking and not contributing, I'm creating a Form I and Form VI (basics) tutorial, I'll send it to Youtube as soon as it's ready.

Can't wait!  ;) ;)

FYI all,
I picked up a vid from my good friends at LA Jedi on Makashi that was developed by one of their members.  I plan on learning it and making a tutorial but I want to wait until I get the Dooku saber...so it's done with the proper saber!

Great news! In the meantime I would like to update my index.  :P ;) ;)
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Revan57 on June 19, 2009, 08:48:15 AM
Wow, I didn't know Revan was a Niman practitioner. I always thought that he was a Djem So user

 He was a Djem So user and the term is Jar Kai.  Niman is the diplomats form which is why certain jedi you used this form during the war were easily killed during Geonosis and especially during the purge.  Jar Kai uses dual saber weilding which Revan was quite adept in.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: The Highwayman on June 19, 2009, 05:14:23 PM
Wookieepedia says Juyo.

Quote
When Bastila Shan and three other Jedi attempted to capture Darth Revan aboard his flagship, he performed a Form VII ready stance, making him a possible Juyo practitioner.[6]

It doesn't matter to me, but There is always some ambiguity to the forms. Since non have been officially "defined" with moves and stances that are "canon", then we can all make our own assumptions.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: wookieecrisp on June 19, 2009, 05:45:20 PM
Wookieepedia says Juyo.

Quote
When Bastila Shan and three other Jedi attempted to capture Darth Revan aboard his flagship, he performed a Form VII ready stance, making him a possible Juyo practitioner.[6]

It doesn't matter to me, but There is always some ambiguity to the forms. Since non have been officially "defined" with moves and stances that are "canon", then we can all make our own assumptions.

I think the form a character uses shouldn't be judged by just one stance/move. It should be judged by overall moves. That stance could be Juyo, but I don't think that means he uses it.  ;) ;)
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Jedi Bov-ch Roche on June 20, 2009, 03:58:37 PM
wow watched the links all i can say is i have a lot to learn :)
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: wookieecrisp on June 20, 2009, 04:18:26 PM
wow watched the links all i can say is i have a lot to learn :)

I have yet to update the index.  :) ;) ;)
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Caine on June 28, 2009, 10:58:58 PM
Hey fellow saber players, duelists and forms players,

Here is Lightsaber Combat Form III - Soresu. Here are 3 different versions:

1. For all new forms players who are new to forms in general and are just getting started...you are a young padawan in training.


2. For more advanced players....you are a Jedi Knight!


3. For all martial artists or anyone wanting to take Soresu to a higher level overall! Jedi Masters take heed!


DISCLAIMER: Ebon Wing of NY Jedi is the creator of this form and deserves full credit for it's inception. This is my interpretation of the form. I am in no way associated with the NY Jedi, nor do I claim to be. I have simply learned from videos of various members of NY Jedi and have made modifications here and there for my own personal use. These tutorials are me doing my best to stay as close to Ebon Wing's versions as possible, but I cannot promise it's EXACTLY the way he teaches it.

Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Big Boss on June 28, 2009, 11:13:46 PM
nice videos master caine :) keep them coming
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: wookieecrisp on June 29, 2009, 07:13:56 AM
Awesome Caine!  :o :o Can't wait for more.  ;) ;)
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Darth Wraith on July 12, 2009, 01:51:54 PM
I think that I will focus most of my efforts on forms III, and V; these seem to give the greatest advantages.  I am 6-3 at about 220 pounds, and I am a vendor by profession( I lift drink crates all day), so I believe that I have quite a bit of force to put behind the blows.  (While dueling one of my freinds I struck his blade so hard that the tip flew off and we never found it).  However this being said, against a well trained duelist form V might be far to agressive, you would expend all your energy in the first few moments off the duel and become slugish and weak thereafter, giving your opponent an easy shot at defeating you.  For this reason, becoming a master of form III would be ideal when fighting someone with greater skills than yourself, there mental concentration would weign after a time, and they would become phsyically debilitated, alowing for you to switch to for V and over power them.  In lightsaber combat, I mold myself after Darth Bane, for I believe this strategy was his aswell.

One other quick note, I believe that trying to defend against a duelist wielding two sabers is almost impossible without atleast a shoto of your own.  I was dueling another of my freinds who was far more proficient in the Jar'kai style than I, I defended myself with a single lightsaber; needles to say I was struck down within just a couple of moves.  I intend to convert my Yoda Fx, so that it can be a fully functional shoto for myself so that I might defend against this Jar'Kai style.  I intend to experiment with a double bladed saber utilizing form III against the Jar'Kai aswell, but I have my doubts.  I seem to have the same weakness as Darth Bane, (as demonstrated when he fought the Blademaster who trained him on the lost world of Lehon, were it not for Bane's tremendous power in the Dark Side of the Force he surely would have been killed by the Blademaster).

May The Force Serve Us Well
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Talonclaw on July 13, 2009, 06:57:02 AM
Excellent!  ;D
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: dark_jedi_vokk on July 13, 2009, 07:14:32 AM
i'm gonna look more over these later.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: HAN SOLO on July 13, 2009, 08:41:54 AM
Please realize this is not singling out anyone. This is just a Protocol we follow.......

Now as everyone notices that this has been merged. I realize that it is authenticated by master Caine, however, this is a version of Soresu. AND to avoid having 10 diferent Topics on the same Form, different interpretations, these are to be posted here.

The reasons are that when a Member types in to the Search Engine for Soresu or Juyo or Ataru as Topics, they will get the 10 diferent Topics PLUS 25 other examples in the Topics. For simplicity and peace of mind for the Mods who clean up the Topics in the Archives, we run it in this manner. Summer is here and more Members are coming on board daily.

A couple of Members have had their topics merged into this one.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: wookieecrisp on July 13, 2009, 06:01:58 PM
I have finally updated my index. It should now include every tutorial and demo found on YouTube. Thanks for the support all! ;) ;)
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Jm419 on July 28, 2009, 07:51:47 PM
Lol.  Here I go, not checking my own posts for months...

I'll post some videos of Makashi form...(or fencing, I'm not entirely sure if it relates, but Ep II says that Dooku was an elegant fencer, so...) once the Dooku saber comes out.  It's very difficult to hold a Luke ANH properly for fencing, for instance, because the blade is supposed to be in line with the lower arm at all times, so it effectively serves as an extension of your blade arm.  Google "Visconti fencing grip" to get an idea what I mean; the pommel is far offset from the blade itself - it actually fits onto and locks on your wrist.  Naturally, doing so with a straight hilt might be slightly difficult, considering the blade is roughly 30* off of where it's supposed to be at all times.

In addition, fencing is all single handed - that is, the blade is held in one hand at the beginning of the skirmish/match/duel, and it stays there for the duration.  If you notice from the movies, Dooku typically only holds his saber in one hand - and he has the best form of any of the characters in the movies, considering he's Christopher Lee, and has been fencing in movies for decades. 

There are really only two elements to swordplay at any given time, if simplified way down to the basics - finesse and power.  Each form trades off finesse for power, and vice versa. Imagine it as being based on a percent system - two elements adding up to 100%.  That is, say Shii-Cho is evenly based between the two - 50% Power and 50% Finesse.  For instance, Djem So and Juyo are mainly power-based (though Djem So has more finesse than Juyo), and Soresu and Makashi (and really Ataru, though that one could be argued) are much more aligned with finesse. Makashi is almost purely finesse (perhaps 90 Finesse%/10% Power).  As such, you won't see Dooku making any over-head strikes, or anything, but he relies on much more fluid strokes, and excellent point control.  Makashi is essentially a showy form of basic fencing, which stresses economy of motion and careful strategy. 

So, if people would be interested in seeing fencing moves with a fencing foil (sword), I can post that relatively quickly.  If people would prefer to wait to see my style of Makashi with a Dooku saber, I can do that too.  Let me know what you think.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Darth Axumus on October 29, 2009, 08:17:45 AM
Very nice! I need to start training ASAP!
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: JediKnight2601 on July 08, 2010, 08:32:55 AM
Wow, great stuff, thanx so much! ;D ;D :) :)
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Caine on July 08, 2010, 09:16:20 AM
A sidenote....

I am releasing a special DVD for the first 20 people to purchase a C.F. V5 with all these forms on it.  ;D

This DVD will NOT be sold on an individual basis...so get your F5 finger ready...
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Lucien Kane on August 02, 2010, 07:43:01 PM
Makashi was a elegant lightsaber to lightsaber specialized form, that would relate closely to fencing in our universe... My aspiration is to turn the seven forms into actual forms of martial arts that can be taught and learned... however I need gymnastics training to get ataru haha
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Shadar Al Niende on August 10, 2010, 12:52:06 PM
Thank you for this... VERY helpful!
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Sith Apprentice on October 05, 2010, 10:24:10 AM
Caine, just wondering if this has been sent yet?
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Caine on October 05, 2010, 10:33:40 AM
Caine, just wondering if this has been sent yet?

On it's way.  ;)  (not sure how long it will take to get to Austrialia)
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Sith Apprentice on October 05, 2010, 10:43:15 AM
Thankyou  ;D
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Makashi on October 18, 2010, 10:36:20 PM
My forms are Makashi (my name lol), Soresu, and Niman. I also like to use Makashi and Soresu combined. :D
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Agustus on February 20, 2011, 12:24:39 PM
Just got my copy in the post.

Many thanks Caine!

Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: PhoenixJedi on April 20, 2011, 11:24:14 PM
NY Jedi is actually working on a new Djem-So/Shien, a new Ataru, and a new Makashi, as well as a brand new Soresu.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Caine on April 20, 2011, 11:32:15 PM
NY Jedi is actually working on a new Djem-So/Shien, a new Ataru, and a new Makashi, as well as a brand new Soresu.

Interesting. Are there going to be tutorials on these?

And why change Ebon's Soresu? It's a great form.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Novastar on June 26, 2012, 02:43:29 PM
Since this thread hasn't had a post about any of the "7 forms" for >1 year...



Enjoy.


Also, Josh Diffey worked pretty hard to create some cool drawings, depicting HIS interpretation of things as well.



Enjoy.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Caine on February 08, 2013, 02:12:54 AM
Wow.

I am thoroughly disappointed.  >:(

I was just browsing YouTube and there are dozens upon dozens of videos of the 7 Forms and I must say, the comments, as well as the overall instruction leave a lot to be desired.

Back in 2008, before I started posting my original videos, there was literally nothing on YT for saber combat forms. Now, there is a great deal of people pretending to be instructors, that appear to have limited experience in martial arts or even stage combat that are posting these "tutorials" and even worse, people are actually following them. They read book and BOOM...instant experts.  :P

Either that, or people get into an argument over what 'this' form and 'that' form is truly about instead of just letting others forms their own opinions...they feel that "canon" is the only way.  :(

Awful.

Props to people like the folks at Terra Prime Lightsaber Academy who are actively keeping the forms going with their real martial arts experience and hopefully reaching out to those who want to learn real saberplay.

I am staying away from YouTube these days because of the above reasons. I will stick to focusing on digital downloads via sabercombat.com for my versions of the 7 Forms that are on the drawing board.

Stay tuned.  8)
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Veldryne_Drakx on February 08, 2013, 05:57:35 AM
There is a benefit to youtube though, for folks who take their saberplay seriously, we are able to post our videos.

That way those of us who are "learners in exile" as the TPLA refers to us can post videos of our stuff so that you and Master Nonymous can review it and give us some pointers.

Just ignore the kowakian monkey lizards that are trying to teach without knowing what they are talking about.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Caine on February 08, 2013, 10:24:02 AM
There is a benefit to youtube though, for folks who take their saberplay seriously, we are able to post our videos.

That way those of us who are "learners in exile" as the TPLA refers to us can post videos of our stuff so that you and Master Nonymous can review it and give us some pointers.

Just ignore the kowakian monkey lizards that are trying to teach without knowing what they are talking about.

LOL, " kowakian monkey lizards", love it!  Haha!

Yeah, I know there are the benefits.  ;)   I guess I just see a lot of trolling also.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Darth Nonymous on February 09, 2013, 06:39:13 AM
Thank you for the shout out Master Caine! We at TPLA strive to raise the bar on the practice. The Martial arts is such a huge thing to us, we want to spread it. It is good to have ones peers notice one's efforts.

We have had enough people comment on our videos about how this is not Makashi, or what not. But I think that attitude comes from ignorance. Even in real martial arts it doesn't work that way. Styles and lineages are like families-not everyone is just like everyone else,but they are all related. Just because I don't know the guy with my last name doesn't mean he isn't a Smith (or what ever).

When folks start tlaking like "That's not such and such a Form" it is very hard for me not to just tune out and ignore it. It is already tiresome when taling about MMA vs. TKD, but doing it with fictional styles from Star Wars....sigh.

As far as substandard instruction: I have always taken my teacher's advice. The only answer to poor instruction is excellent instruction. The crap will fall off as long as there are those in the community disciplined enough to raise standards and expectations. Sure you can get any 15 year old who just got a new saber doing the Obi/Ani ( grrrrrr hate that name) and thinking it is some how a marker of mastery. Got news for people, those spins are basic. Like first week basic in the sword arts I have studied.

Then you get the yahoos who proclaim how much experience they have and how long they have been practicing...alone.... in their backyard...without a teacher. With those folks it's like talking to a child who thinks they are 35. All you can do is chuckle and hope they don't get hurt too bad when they find out how little that means.

So I agree it's like Deadwood crossed with Dumb and Dumber. But, that's kind of the price of access. I hope you wont stray too far, there certainly aren't a lot of us out there.

Hang in there!  It can be lonely at the top. :)

I am looking forward to your revised Forms. I hope the project is coming along.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Caine on February 21, 2013, 10:34:27 AM
Thank you for the shout out Master Caine! We at TPLA strive to raise the bar on the practice. The Martial arts is such a huge thing to us, we want to spread it. It is good to have ones peers notice one's efforts.

We have had enough people comment on our videos about how this is not Makashi, or what not. But I think that attitude comes from ignorance. Even in real martial arts it doesn't work that way. Styles and lineages are like families-not everyone is just like everyone else,but they are all related. Just because I don't know the guy with my last name doesn't mean he isn't a Smith (or what ever).

When folks start tlaking like "That's not such and such a Form" it is very hard for me not to just tune out and ignore it. It is already tiresome when taling about MMA vs. TKD, but doing it with fictional styles from Star Wars....sigh.

As far as substandard instruction: I have always taken my teacher's advice. The only answer to poor instruction is excellent instruction. The crap will fall off as long as there are those in the community disciplined enough to raise standards and expectations. Sure you can get any 15 year old who just got a new saber doing the Obi/Ani ( grrrrrr hate that name) and thinking it is some how a marker of mastery. Got news for people, those spins are basic. Like first week basic in the sword arts I have studied.

Then you get the yahoos who proclaim how much experience they have and how long they have been practicing...alone.... in their backyard...without a teacher. With those folks it's like talking to a child who thinks they are 35. All you can do is chuckle and hope they don't get hurt too bad when they find out how little that means.

So I agree it's like Deadwood crossed with Dumb and Dumber. But, that's kind of the price of access. I hope you wont stray too far, there certainly aren't a lot of us out there.

Hang in there!  It can be lonely at the top. :)

I am looking forward to your revised Forms. I hope the project is coming along.

Well said. It's exactly what I have been saying for YEARS.

Glad to see our minds think alike.  ;)   Whether they are "great minds" or not, I guess we just have to see how many people we reach and accept it.  :D
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: GuardianKex on August 13, 2013, 05:39:24 AM
Wow.

I am thoroughly disappointed.  >:(

I was just browsing YouTube and there are dozens upon dozens of videos of the 7 Forms and I must say, the comments, as well as the overall instruction leave a lot to be desired.

Back in 2008, before I started posting my original videos, there was literally nothing on YT for saber combat forms. Now, there is a great deal of people pretending to be instructors, that appear to have limited experience in martial arts or even stage combat that are posting these "tutorials" and even worse, people are actually following them. They read book and BOOM...instant experts.  :P


Was reading through the thread and found this.
But yes Caine, it is awful. There are lots of this these days where people claim to be experts. From a music standpoint, anytime you YT a song you like, you can often find a bunch of tutorials on how to play it, and often it's just the chords. It will have nothing to do with the nuances of the song, the fingerpicking, the stylistic things, just the chords. And yet they get hundreds of thousands of views on their videos.
My little music rant over :P
But that's just the nature of the beast in today's world. You can post anything on the internet in seconds, and you have access to sooo much information, that you can read one wikipedia page and make a viral video based on it.  It becomes a challenge to make sure what you see/read/hear/post is valid and credible.

ALSO, forgot to give props to you Caine, love your work!
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Caine on August 13, 2013, 09:57:07 AM
Agreed very much...and thank you, sir!
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Caine on August 20, 2013, 01:33:22 PM
Just an update on my end...

My personal  7 Forms project is shelved indefinitely. There are so many others that do it now, my work seems to have take a back seat. It was pioneering at the time (2008-2009) but recently, I am just another person who's interpretation is just added to the mix. Some people don't even remember me, lol.

Regardless of my extensive martial arts knowledge and experience, the vast majority of saber peeps don't really care about that. They just want to swing their sabers around and call their personal "style" one of the 7 Forms of Combat names because they either like the name or the character it's associated with, lol.

I am focusing my saber combat work on other aspects. Hopefully, we can see more proper variations of the 7 Forms from more experienced folks, such as TPLA, etc. My work is done here, lol.

Time to move on.  8)
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on August 20, 2013, 02:13:48 PM
I remember, and I point it out whenever the subject comes up on any forum I visit. Just the other night I pointed out your contribution to a noob who is with TPLA.

Yes others do it now but you are the pioneer in that aspect of this hobby and no one can take that away from you. If you feel your work is done on that aspect of saberplay then be justly proud it was done WELL and you left a strong foundation for those who come after to build on.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Falcon on August 20, 2013, 02:19:48 PM
Hey Caine,

I also happened upon this post then went to utube...the tears of laughter are still streaming down my eyes as I watched some guy trying to explain how to grip a lightsaber? His technique is how to hold a katana! You Caine are a serious "real" martial artist! Don't let these children distract you from the art. How many times have you seen guys show up to train and as soon as they get a belt/rank they leave so they can boast to their friends "I'm a martial artist". This is exactly the same thing. Let me tell you something you already know...belts mean nothing. When you spar/fight someone you learn very quickly their level of skill by they way they move. Forgive me if you guys have already had a long conversation about this point: lightsaber katas/forms should be somewhat different then our present martial arts movements because of the dynamics of a "real' lightsaber. Meaning the only time your really using strength movements is when the blades contact each other. It makes me think of kendo..the quickest jab to the throat or wrist will win the fight. I do completely understand your frustration..but the ones who seek the truth will eventually find it or you...
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Caine on August 20, 2013, 04:08:02 PM
I am pretty much "over" frustration, and have just accepted it as the norm these days. I am neither bitter, nor do I have any regrets when it comes to my past work. For the ones who I influenced, I appreciate them and their open minds very much!  :)  It is just time to move forward with other aspects of saber combat.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Darth Nonymous on September 03, 2013, 08:17:58 PM
I remember, and I point it out whenever the subject comes up on any forum I visit. Just the other night I pointed out your contribution to a noob who is with TPLA.
Just to set the record straight...

 TPLA has always acknowledged Caine's and Novastar's contribution to the hobby. Caine has been on the show twice and we love having him. It is always a a pleasure and a privilege to converse with Caine.

I can speak for all of us at TPLA that we appreciate everything they have done for this community and would love to do more with them in the future. I have the highest respect.

 That is the official TPLA stance on this matter.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on September 05, 2013, 09:55:25 PM
Yipes...I think I had another "open mouth - insert foot" moment there. :(

Darth Nonymous looking at it again I see that I could/should have more accurately said "pointed out your [Caine's] contribution while discussing the history of the hobby with someone who said he was a noob and student of TPLA" rather than "pointed out your contribution to a noob who is with TPLA" which might be misconstrued in a way I didn't intend to suggest I was speaking about you or TPLA itself not knowing or acknowledging Caine - which is not so, which I did not mean, and I want to clarify my error now [I honestly didn't think at the time that anyone could misconstrue it that way since neither of you are "noobs" because of your extensive experience with swords but I should not have left any ambiguity about who or what I was and was not speaking about...instead I messed up. Mea Culpa.].

You are absolutely right that TPLA has always given due credit in every one of your videos I've seen, including those you mention, and it was never my intention to suggest otherwise nor to say anything negative about either of you or TPLA whatsoever since my view of your work is entirely positive, I respect you both and I am sorry if it seemed otherwise.

I apologize to you and the saber community for my poor choice of words leaving any wrong impression and wish all the best in the future for TerraPrime as I do for Caine and Novastar...MTFBWY always.
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Darth Nonymous on September 06, 2013, 11:06:33 AM
Yipes...I think I had another "open mouth - insert foot" moment there. :(

Darth Nonymous looking at it again I see that I could/should have more accurately said "pointed out your [Caine's] contribution while discussing the history of the hobby with someone who said he was a noob and student of TPLA" rather than "pointed out your contribution to a noob who is with TPLA" which might be misconstrued in a way I didn't intend to suggest I was speaking about you or TPLA itself not knowing or acknowledging Caine - which is not so, which I did not mean, and I want to clarify my error now [I honestly didn't think at the time that anyone could misconstrue it that way since neither of you are "noobs" because of your extensive experience with swords but I should not have left any ambiguity about who or what I was and was not speaking about...instead I messed up. Mea Culpa.].

You are absolutely right that TPLA has always given due credit in every one of your videos I've seen, including those you mention, and it was never my intention to suggest otherwise nor to say anything negative about either of you or TPLA whatsoever since my view of your work is entirely positive, I respect you both and I am sorry if it seemed otherwise.

I apologize to you and the saber community for my poor choice of words leaving any wrong impression and wish all the best in the future for TerraPrime as I do for Caine and Novastar...MTFBWY always.
No worries! Thanks for the clarification. We are all about community and misunderstanding are bound to happen. It is great when we can work things out.

Thank you again for the clarification and apology (although none is really needed) I have great respect for that kind of honorable action. Which is in short supply these days. Kudos!

MTFBWY and Happy Sabering!
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Cavjo on May 15, 2015, 11:04:58 AM
Hello guys i was looking at the posts and i can't seem to find the videos of the 7 forms you guys are talking about , sorry if i am missing them  :shy:, but could some one help me thanks!!
Title: Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
Post by: Darth Brooks on May 06, 2017, 08:29:42 PM
Good stuff! Like all the videos