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Outer Rim => General Discussions - SW => Topic started by: The Force Is Strong on January 23, 2017, 09:32:36 AM

Title: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: The Force Is Strong on January 23, 2017, 09:32:36 AM
Episode VIII finally has a name, The Last Jedi (TLJ). Article below. Any thoughts?

And the official title of 'Star Wars: Episode VIII' is... - Jan. 23, 2017 (http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/23/media/star-wars-the-last-jedi-episode-viii-title/index.html)
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Guylo Ren on January 23, 2017, 09:52:20 AM
Only just found out!Very evocative title,love it,can only hope for a proper teaser soon!Doubt it'll bear any resemblance to the novel of the same name as the new trilogy isn't building on the EU,but it's a wonderfully strong title regardless!  :grin:
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: WEDGE ANTILLES on January 23, 2017, 06:16:23 PM
"The Last Samurai ..?"  whut? (I think it's been done already) :(



--> let the Tom Cruise Memes begin!  :cool:
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on January 23, 2017, 11:30:11 PM
What does it mean though? Simply that at that point in time Luke is the 'last' Jedi [singular] UNTIL he trains Rey? Or that once he does they together will be the 'last' Jedi [plural] UNTIL he, she or they train others? Is it a 'snapshot in time' during which he or they are 'last' Jedi in the Galaxy THEN or is it more ominously a suggestion that Luke as 'last Jedi' before Rey found him might die in Ep. VIII, ENDING the Jedi forever if he alone is a trained Jedi at that moment? Or that if he has trained Rey when he dies that she might then become "last" unless/until she trains others, perhaps in Ep. IX?

Many possible "from a certain point of view" meanings of "last" - we'll know in December.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Greenie on January 23, 2017, 11:51:27 PM
I think I like it but I was hoping for a four word title like AOTC and TESB
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: WEDGE ANTILLES on January 24, 2017, 10:08:13 AM
what does it mean?  it means Luke will die.

as the movie begins, it refers to "Luke The Last Jedi", as this WILL be a movie about luke..   but when the movie is over, then the Last Jedi will be Rey.

she is the center of the trilogy, afterall.   The Force Awakens in HER.   the last jedi is HER. 



-or-


when the movie is over, there will be no jedi at all.

ie:  the words "Star Wars" are done in red.    why red?   

--> Rey will turn.    Luke will be the last jedi, because his padawan becomes a sith.   and yea .. he dies.   either way.  "last jedi" and all that.

 
 
(they revealed the ending by this title : either way , Luke dies ---  either Luke is, in fact, the "Last Jedi" (which means there will be no more after him, he will die, and take the JEdi Order with him to the grave, thus becoming the Last Jedi Ever) ; or Rey becomes the "last jedi" by the end of the movie (which means: Luke is dead, either way).
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: WEDGE ANTILLES on January 24, 2017, 10:17:06 AM
I still can't believe they changed only a single word from a recognizable movie title.

"The Last Samurai?"   the JEdi Knights were based on old samurai movies.   

it seems very careless.   and very unoriginal.   I never expected this from Star Wars.  :sad:




it's like "The Wrath Of Kylo" , or "Star Wars The Next Generation" , or "Raiders of the Lost JediTemple" , or "Rise of the Planet of the Jedi".

it's only ONE WORD AWAY from a recognizable movie title.  :sad:
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on January 24, 2017, 11:55:11 AM
I think I like it but I was hoping for a four word title like AOTC and TESB

Episode IV is three words; A New Hope so it is still within 'traditional' parameters.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on January 24, 2017, 12:10:36 PM
what does it mean?  it means Luke will die.

as the movie begins, it refers to "Luke The Last Jedi", as this WILL be a movie about luke..   but when the movie is over, then the Last Jedi will be Rey.

she is the center of the trilogy, afterall.   The Force Awakens in HER.   the last jedi is HER. 



-or-


when the movie is over, there will be no jedi at all.

ie:  the words "Star Wars" are done in red.    why red?   

--> Rey will turn.    Luke will be the last jedi, because his padawan becomes a sith.   and yea .. he dies.   either way.  "last jedi" and all that.

 
 
(they revealed the ending by this title : either way , Luke dies ---  either Luke is, in fact, the "Last Jedi" (which means there will be no more after him, he will die, and take the JEdi Order with him to the grave, thus becoming the Last Jedi Ever) ; or Rey becomes the "last jedi" by the end of the movie (which means: Luke is dead, either way).

But since the word "Jedi" can be plural the modifier "Last" can also be plural in the same sense that "The Last Buffalo" could be one surviving buffalo or the only surviving HERD of buffalo; Last Jedi could logically refer to Luke OR Rey at different times but also conceivably Luke AND Rey collectively at the same time, which could be the beginning or the end of the movie or both; thus no one NECESSARILY needs to die, though it is certainly possible, and perhaps likely; The RED logo does seem to suggest ominous foreshadowing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Greenie on January 24, 2017, 01:00:12 PM
I think I like it but I was hoping for a four word title like AOTC and TESB

Episode IV is three words; A New Hope so it is still within 'traditional' parameters.

No. The first episode of each trilogy is three words, the second and third should all be four words. 
TPM.   ATOC.    ROTS
ANH.   TESB.    ROTJ
TFA.    TLJ_.      ____   
Even George Lucas coulda got that right.  :tongue:
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on January 24, 2017, 03:05:56 PM
Hmmm...I never realized that about the different trilogies DOH on me eh? but yes you are right!

Let's hope they don't break with too many other SW movie traditions; like the second film in a trilogy always being the best...oh waitaminute... ;) lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: jbkuma on January 24, 2017, 03:42:38 PM
Rey and/or Luke meet the last living properly trained Jedi.  Perhaps someone from outside the council or outside of the judiciary/military faction that rose to galactic power.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: TrypWyr on January 24, 2017, 04:38:45 PM
it's like "The Wrath Of Kylo" , or "Star Wars The Next Generation" , or "Raiders of the Lost JediTemple" , or "Rise of the Planet of the Jedi".

it's only ONE WORD AWAY from a recognizable movie title.  :sad:

The Saint Strikes Back (1939)
The Return of the Pink Panther (1975)
The Phantom (1943)
Attack of the Killer Tomatoes! (1978)
Revenge of the Nerds (1984)
Paris Awakens (1991)

Seems to me that Star Wars has been ripping off movies titles since the beginning!  :cheesy:
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: WEDGE ANTILLES on January 24, 2017, 06:23:47 PM
point taken  :laugh:
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Scruffy Nerf Herder on January 25, 2017, 07:33:56 AM
I wholeheartedly disagree that Luke will die in Ep VII.  The "last Jedi" is apropos as Luke is really the last person in existence who is trained in the Jedi arts (as far as we know).  Rey is not a Jedi, she is "force sensitive" or a "force user" until she is trained in the Jedi way.

Also, remember that Snoke specifically called Luke "the last Jedi" in TFA.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: darth hondo on January 25, 2017, 11:44:27 AM
I wholeheartedly disagree that Luke will die in Ep VII.  The "last Jedi" is apropos as Luke is really the last person in existence who is trained in the Jedi arts (as far as we know).  Rey is not a Jedi, she is "force sensitive" or a "force user" until she is trained in the Jedi way.

Also, remember that Snoke specifically called Luke "the last Jedi" in TFA.

agree that it's not a meaningful title other than Luke will play a large role. at least larger than TFA.

Luke will not die in Ep. 8. May be Ep. 9 but that's not guaranteed too. Too many deaths already. Solo died in Ep. 7 and Carrie Fisher died in real life. So can't have all three major characters from OT die completely. Just a PR disaster for the mouse company
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: TheSaberCore on January 25, 2017, 12:10:43 PM
I wholeheartedly disagree that Luke will die in Ep VII.  The "last Jedi" is apropos as Luke is really the last person in existence who is trained in the Jedi arts (as far as we know).  Rey is not a Jedi, she is "force sensitive" or a "force user" until she is trained in the Jedi way.

Also, remember that Snoke specifically called Luke "the last Jedi" in TFA.

agree that it's not a meaningful title other than Luke will play a large role. at least larger than TFA.

Luke will not die in Ep. 8. May be Ep. 9 but that's not guaranteed too. Too many deaths already. Solo died in Ep. 7 and Carrie Fisher died in real life. So can't have all three major characters from OT die completely. Just a PR disaster for the mouse company
I agree with Hondo, I doubt Luke will die. However Lucasfilm has stated they have no intentions of resurrecting Carrie Fisher or anything similar, so I think it's more than likely Leia will be the next to "get the lightsaber through the chest". It would be too much if Luke went out too.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Scruffy Nerf Herder on January 25, 2017, 12:20:54 PM
Writing out Leia should be fairly simple...even if her role was bigger in Ep 8.  A simple line of dialog from a main character, either in Ep 8 or 9, can release the writers from any further conversation of her character.  Similar to Fast and Furious...they didn't have to acknowledge in the movie that Paul Walker was dead, they just left his character's fate open to speculation as he drove off into the sun.

Ultimately I doubt Carrie's passing will have a huge impact on the overall story.  We'll still get the same Star Wars that was intended, just minus one main character...which isn't really a main character anymore anyways.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: darklordkasim on January 25, 2017, 02:19:02 PM
I like the title I believe it is just simply referring to Luke as the last Jedi. He was referred to as this in both the force awakens opening crawl and script and I think that the title is intended to make people read into it. The movie is expected to focus heavily on Luke and so the title seems appropriate yet gives nothing away. As many have already said the plural for Jedi is Jedi so it could refer to Luke and Rey, or even the last Jedi meaning the Jedi order from the one we are similar with given luke's location is the first Jedi temple.

Disney wants to make the film massive and by keeping people guessing it builds up anticipation and speculation for the movie.

Either way it is Star Wars so it will be a brilliant film none the less!
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Drewbacca on January 29, 2017, 12:32:59 PM
My only assumption is that Rey will become the only Jedi left if they decide to kill off Luke  :cry: It's so painful to watch your favorite characters die off
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: anakin2000 on January 30, 2017, 03:57:42 PM
Luke WILL NOT die in this movie. The director of EP.9 has already stated on numerous occassions that he wants luke (and wanted leia....) to have massive roles in that movie. you guys are way overanalyzing this title, but everyone else is too. Luke is just the last of the jedi order. its basically a snapshot from the beginning of the movie, whereas rey will be trained by the end.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: darklordkasim on February 04, 2017, 02:26:56 PM
I agree in a sense it's being analysed too much, I mean every Star Wars title has literally related to one person or event within that respective movie.

I'm kind of gutted we may have to wait until April for a trailer though!
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: bodi on February 04, 2017, 04:31:43 PM
I for one, will be really disappointed if Luke DOESN'T die, either in 8 or 9. It would be pure Joseph Campbell, the Death of the Mentor myth we saw done brilliantly with Obi Wan Kenobi.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: TrypWyr on February 04, 2017, 06:54:49 PM
While I agree that it has some poetry to it (Qui-Gon dies leaving Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan dies leaving Luke, Luke dies leaving Rey), it could also be attacked as yet another copy of the previous movies.

Sigh, just can't win...  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: bodi on February 05, 2017, 05:32:09 PM
Yes. But in this case, unlike a new Death Star over and over, the myth is an archetype. The old die so the young can continue. That's really is the way of things...
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on February 05, 2017, 09:45:45 PM
Yes. But in this case, unlike a new Death Star over and over, the myth is an archetype. The old die so the young can continue. That's really is the way of things...

...and not just in storytelling but in 'real life'. Generations pass the torch within families, corporations, political parties, nations, even civilizations. One of the greatest joys of growing older is the chance to pass on one's accumulated knowledge, experience [and hopefully some Wisdom acquired along the way] by becoming the 'teacher' of the young who will carry it forward. That's how Progress is made. So it seems entirely appropriate for Luke to do that for Rey as Obi-Wan did for Luke as Qui Gon did for Obi-Wan as Dooku did for Qui-Gon  and as Yoda did for everyone in the Jedi Order not 900 years old. LOL

That doesnt mean that Luke has to DIE to do so however just because OWK and QGJ did before him. The archetypal myth of the Hero's Journey requires a Transformation of the nascent proto-hero typically a youth into the fully destiny-realized hero typically an adult but the rite of passage involved doesnt necessarily require a 'blood sacrifice' of the teacher-mentors life.

Luke doesn't 'need' to die for Rey to become the "Last Jedi" since the term Jedi can be plural so Luke can 'retire from the field of battle' alive and pass the torch for Rey to be the one to start a new Jedi Order [or not] and the phrase 'last Jedi' would still be logically correct for including Rey even with a 'retired' Luke alive. He doesnt need to die at all even in Ep IX but the title of Ep VIII certainty doesnt have to mean he dies in this movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: oswaldkefo on February 26, 2017, 06:19:58 PM
The title is great, obviously it stirred up a ton of discussion across social media, as well as what the plural form of "jedi" actual is. I believe since the plural of jedi is jedi, it is not saying there is only one left, but these are the last of the jedi (more than one, but very few).

I do not believe that Luke will die in TLJ, especially now that Carrie Fischer is one with the Force. They need an OT character/mentor to make it through til IX. I suppose he could still operate in that capacity as a Force ghost a la Obi-Wan in ESB, but I doubt it.

Another thing that intrigues me about the toy-box art is that Finn looks relatively fine after his lightsaber-induced spinal injury. I thought he would perhaps some kind of exo-skeleton or cybernetic enhancements.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: greekos on April 14, 2017, 11:24:26 AM
In the new trailer we hear Luke say "I know only one truth, that the Jedi must end."

I think thats more of a metaphore for saying, no longer can the "sith" and "jedi" mindset be separate. Im guessing it means to lean to more of the grey scale. Meaning the mindesets constantly cause a flip-flop of the user, your either one or the other and thats without balance. So maybe he thinks that the old orders should be done away with.

thoughts?
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: anakin2000 on April 14, 2017, 01:07:30 PM
In the new trailer we hear Luke say "I know only one truth, that the Jedi must end."

I think thats more of a metaphore for saying, no longer can the "sith" and "jedi" mindset be separate. Im guessing it means to lean to more of the grey scale. Meaning the mindesets constantly cause a flip-flop of the user, your either one or the other and thats without balance. So maybe he thinks that the old orders should be done away with.

thoughts?
its actually up for debate right now as to whether or not it was actually benicio del toro's character. im not sure myself but if it is mark, he doesnt sound the same saying that line as he does the earlier "breathe...what do you see?"
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Ki-Adi on April 15, 2017, 04:19:16 AM
The trailer is quite interesting. Plenty of depth to the whole, are the jedi ending? or are they becoming more along the lines of the grey jedi. I think that what Luke found may be actually the origins of the Jedi, and that the recent Jedi ideologies are not that of the original. There's a good analysis of the trailer that I've found here: Star Wars Episode 8: The Last Jedi Trailer Analysis - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j46219x7Co) She goes over the entire trailer and points out everything that is seen as well as thoughts on why Luke thinks there must be an end to the Jedi.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: WEDGE ANTILLES on April 15, 2017, 12:09:29 PM
I've been saying for years, the Jedi Order caused the imbalance in the force. why? because they DON't follow the will of the force.
(watch TPM. it's stated explicitly. by qui-gon.. the guy who is rewarded with immortality, BECAUSE he follows the will of the force).  :huh: (this is not coincidence)

the "Jedi Order" was founded at the same time as the Galactic Senate -- from Day#1, the Order swore an oath, to uphold the Will of the People.
which means --> from Day #1 , the institution called "Jedi Order" has PREVENTED the individual "Knights" from following the will of the force -- as a matter of POLICY.
(watch TPM. it's stated explicitly. by qui-gon.. the guy who is rewarded with immortality, BECAUSE he follows the will of the force). :huh: (this is not coincidence)

 
Luke is CORRECT in this trailer : the "Jedi" must end , for there to be any kind of balance in the force.
the individual "force users" MUST be allowed to follow the will of the force again, (AND interpret it, for themselves), like they did, thousands of years ago.

ie:a jedi who uses the force, to enact the will of the force, brings balance to the force.
a jedi who "uses" the force, "against its will", brings IMbalance.

(and how do we know this..? 
how do we KNOW this is the "Key to Balance" ...?

well, I know it's unpopular to say, but watch TPM (LOL):
the qui-gon character is all about "will of the force" AND he's rewarded with Immortality by his own God -- this is the theme of the PT: separation of church and state --
the Jedi Order were causing IMbalance, BECAUSE they were following the "will of the senate", which was corrupt and dysfunctional and evil and ruled BY a freaking sith lord --
again, I know it's unpopular, but watch TPM -- watch those "Senate Scenes" (don't skip thru them) -- these scenes are required exposition which show the Senate to be DYSFUNCTIONAL).

--> problem : the Jedi Order has sworn an oath to uphold the Will Of This Dysfunctional Senate.

(the Jedi Order have sworn an oath to FORSAKE the will of the force (!) --- instead, they uphold the Will of the Senate, at all costs (?) --- even when the Senate is shown to be EVIL(!?))

 :huh:

--> at the time of TPM:  the JEdi Order PREVENTS the individual "Jedi Knights", from following the will of the force(*) <---- and THIS causes imbalance in the force.

(( watch TPM : pay attention to qui-gon's dealings with the Jedi Council, as they banter over 'will of the force' vs 'will of the Senate'; and remember, qui-gon IS correct here...
and HOW do we know he is correct? BECAUSE, in the end, he is rewarded with "immortality" by his god; while the Jedi Council are destroyed))

((this reveals qui-gon to be correct -- the key to balance is "follow the will of the force"))
 
 
 



-->> at the end of ROTJ , the Jedi Order is gone; the Sith are gone; the ONLY "force user" left in the game... is Luke:
and Luke has been taught a different lesson : "let go your conscious self" and "let the force guide your actions"

(aka: "follow the will of the force" -- this is qui-gon's Mantra Of Balance, in a nutshell).

-->> at the end of ROTJ, "separation of church and state" has brought a New Balance to the force -- the "Order" is destroyed -- the "Knight", is NOW free , to follow the will of the force again.

and what does this Knight do..? 

he starts a NEW Jedi Order..!?
which immediately spawns a NEW "sith" movement..!?
which stands poised, to take over the Government..!? All Over Again..!?   :huh:

"D'oh!!" [/homer simpson]






(*)  "the Jedi Must End".  absolutely.   it was anakin's job , to wipe out the jedi AND the sith.   (and Luke needs to get with the program).

in the PT , NOBODY was following the will of the force.. 
the Sith had their own agenda, and the Jedi were Chancellor Vallorum's Lapdogs..
they did whatever the Evil Senate TOLD them to do.. without question.

THIS caused a dangerous imbalance in the force.. 

and so, the Force Itself spawned a "defense mechanism", to protect itself against imbalance: it spawned the Chosen One.
(a powerful being , destined to "bring balance to the force").

the role of the chosen one, was to wipe out ANYTHING, which would prevent the individual force-users, from following the will of the force.
(the role of the Chosen One was to destroy the rigid "institutions" of the force ..(both jedi and sith).. who were BOTH "using the force against its will").

((note:  the Rise of the "Sith Order" coincides with the advent of the "Jedi Order", they are 2 sides of the same coin, BECAUSE, one spawned the other ---
this was the universe trying to maintain equilibrium, after the Jedi Order started forsaking the Will of the Force, and "using" the force against its will ---
these two "institutions" opposed each other in a state of quasi-equilibrium (NOT "balance", per se) for a thousand generations --- BECAUSE --- one spawned the other))


--->> after ROTJ , luke tried to rebuild the "Jedi Order". with no "Sith Order" to keep it in check.
it was inevitable , that THIS ACT would spawn a new Sith Order (aka: Knights of Ren).. this is EXACTLY what happened the first time: "one spawned the other".

((READ : by rebuilding the Jedi Order , Luke has unwittingly unleashed MORE IMBALANCE on the universe -- he has unleashed the Knights of Ren, c/w death. and suffereing. and misery -- and NOW: he feels responsible))

 



the ONLY way the force can be in balance -- is for the individual force users, to "follow the will of the force" again.. 

this was the role of the Chosen One -- to MAKE this possible again.

it was anakin's job , to wipe out the jedi AND the sith. (and Luke needs to get with the program).

"I only know ONE truth --- the JEdi Must End."
<-- (this is true)  :tongue:  LOL
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: anakin2000 on April 15, 2017, 03:03:02 PM
You're 100% right Wedge, I also figured thats really what Luke was talking about.. the seperation of "Sith" and "Jedi" is not the will of the force.
I do want to know though...
how long did that take you to type?  :cheesy:
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Greenie on April 16, 2017, 02:10:12 AM
TLDR

You know it's just a movie?
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: BEN KENOBI on April 16, 2017, 05:24:16 AM
I wonder if Luke dies in this movie? :cry: :cry:
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: darth hondo on April 16, 2017, 06:44:27 PM
I wonder if Luke dies in this movie? :cry: :cry:

Don't think so. There will be a huge uproar. Hack, he's likely to survive Ep. 9 since depending on what they do with Rey, Luke may not even have to die to have a powerful story.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on April 19, 2017, 03:43:31 AM
I've been saying for years, the Jedi Order caused the imbalance in the force. why? because they DON't follow the will of the force.
(watch TPM. it's stated explicitly. by qui-gon.. the guy who is rewarded with immortality, BECAUSE he follows the will of the force).  :huh: (this is not coincidence)

the "Jedi Order" was founded at the same time as the Galactic Senate -- from Day#1, the Order swore an oath, to uphold the Will of the People.
which means --> from Day #1 , the institution called "Jedi Order" has PREVENTED the individual "Knights" from following the will of the force -- as a matter of POLICY.
(watch TPM. it's stated explicitly. by qui-gon.. the guy who is rewarded with immortality, BECAUSE he follows the will of the force). :huh: (this is not coincidence)

 
Luke is CORRECT in this trailer : the "Jedi" must end , for there to be any kind of balance in the force.
the individual "force users" MUST be allowed to follow the will of the force again, (AND interpret it, for themselves), like they did, thousands of years ago.

ie:a jedi who uses the force, to enact the will of the force, brings balance to the force.
a jedi who "uses" the force, "against its will", brings IMbalance.

(and how do we know this..? 
how do we KNOW this is the "Key to Balance" ...?

well, I know it's unpopular to say, but watch TPM (LOL):
the qui-gon character is all about "will of the force" AND he's rewarded with Immortality by his own God -- this is the theme of the PT: separation of church and state --
the Jedi Order were causing IMbalance, BECAUSE they were following the "will of the senate", which was corrupt and dysfunctional and evil and ruled BY a freaking sith lord --
again, I know it's unpopular, but watch TPM -- watch those "Senate Scenes" (don't skip thru them) -- these scenes are required exposition which show the Senate to be DYSFUNCTIONAL).

--> problem : the Jedi Order has sworn an oath to uphold the Will Of This Dysfunctional Senate.

(the Jedi Order have sworn an oath to FORSAKE the will of the force (!) --- instead, they uphold the Will of the Senate, at all costs (?) --- even when the Senate is shown to be EVIL(!?))

 :huh:

--> at the time of TPM:  the JEdi Order PREVENTS the individual "Jedi Knights", from following the will of the force(*) <---- and THIS causes imbalance in the force.

(( watch TPM : pay attention to qui-gon's dealings with the Jedi Council, as they banter over 'will of the force' vs 'will of the Senate'; and remember, qui-gon IS correct here...
and HOW do we know he is correct? BECAUSE, in the end, he is rewarded with "immortality" by his god; while the Jedi Council are destroyed))

((this reveals qui-gon to be correct -- the key to balance is "follow the will of the force"))
 
 
 



-->> at the end of ROTJ , the Jedi Order is gone; the Sith are gone; the ONLY "force user" left in the game... is Luke:
and Luke has been taught a different lesson : "let go your conscious self" and "let the force guide your actions"

(aka: "follow the will of the force" -- this is qui-gon's Mantra Of Balance, in a nutshell).

-->> at the end of ROTJ, "separation of church and state" has brought a New Balance to the force -- the "Order" is destroyed -- the "Knight", is NOW free , to follow the will of the force again.

and what does this Knight do..? 

he starts a NEW Jedi Order..!?
which immediately spawns a NEW "sith" movement..!?
which stands poised, to take over the Government..!? All Over Again..!?   :huh:

"D'oh!!" [/homer simpson]






(*)  "the Jedi Must End".  absolutely.   it was anakin's job , to wipe out the jedi AND the sith.   (and Luke needs to get with the program).

in the PT , NOBODY was following the will of the force.. 
the Sith had their own agenda, and the Jedi were Chancellor Vallorum's Lapdogs..
they did whatever the Evil Senate TOLD them to do.. without question.

THIS caused a dangerous imbalance in the force.. 

and so, the Force Itself spawned a "defense mechanism", to protect itself against imbalance: it spawned the Chosen One.
(a powerful being , destined to "bring balance to the force").

the role of the chosen one, was to wipe out ANYTHING, which would prevent the individual force-users, from following the will of the force.
(the role of the Chosen One was to destroy the rigid "institutions" of the force ..(both jedi and sith).. who were BOTH "using the force against its will").

((note:  the Rise of the "Sith Order" coincides with the advent of the "Jedi Order", they are 2 sides of the same coin, BECAUSE, one spawned the other ---
this was the universe trying to maintain equilibrium, after the Jedi Order started forsaking the Will of the Force, and "using" the force against its will ---
these two "institutions" opposed each other in a state of quasi-equilibrium (NOT "balance", per se) for a thousand generations --- BECAUSE --- one spawned the other))


--->> after ROTJ , luke tried to rebuild the "Jedi Order". with no "Sith Order" to keep it in check.
it was inevitable , that THIS ACT would spawn a new Sith Order (aka: Knights of Ren).. this is EXACTLY what happened the first time: "one spawned the other".

((READ : by rebuilding the Jedi Order , Luke has unwittingly unleashed MORE IMBALANCE on the universe -- he has unleashed the Knights of Ren, c/w death. and suffereing. and misery -- and NOW: he feels responsible))

 



the ONLY way the force can be in balance -- is for the individual force users, to "follow the will of the force" again.. 

this was the role of the Chosen One -- to MAKE this possible again.

it was anakin's job , to wipe out the jedi AND the sith. (and Luke needs to get with the program).

"I only know ONE truth --- the JEdi Must End."
<-- (this is true)  :tongue:  LOL


Wedge you know that I have generally agreed with that thesis before and I still do however I do not know if you watch and thus are aware or unaware that in a recent episode of Rebels, which is afterall official Canon [I have to admit it, as much as I dislike some of the other 'canon changes' since the Evil Mouse bought SW] OWK has clearly established that "the Chosen One" was LUKE NOT ANAKIN. 'Old Ben' confirmed it explicitly to Maul on Tatooine as Maul lay dying. Old Ben certainly would have known what we fans have long debated lol since he would have had ample opportunity to discuss it directly with the Force Ghost of QGJ during his training in Exile and it is unrealistic to imagine that he would not have harshly questioned QGJ about whether Anakin really was the Chosen One considering Anakin's Fall to Vader and Obi's part in it. Which only occurred because Obi followed QGJ's wish to insist against the will of the Council that Anakin be trained with the ultimately disastrous results of following his Master's lead on the matter. We might guess that QGJ admitted at some point to Ben that he had been wrong and Anakin was not the Chosen One afterall, and Ben would not have had reason to doubt QGJ who was afterall One with The Force, but whatever the exact nature of that conversation may have been it must have happened at some point over those 18 years, so Old Ben would have HAD to know FOR CERTAIN whether Luke was The Chosen One or not and Ben had ZERO reason to deceive dying Maul on the matter at that point [indeed his overreaction at the beginning of their battle makes sense only if Ben fully believed Luke WAS the Chosen One and therefore was near panicked by the thought of Luke falling into Maul's hands]. I think we can safely assume that if Ben believed it it was because QGJ believed it and if QGJ believed it then The Force believed Luke to be The Chosen One so imo that episode has 'settled' the question of which Skywalker was The Chosen One permanently.

However even if we accept Luke IS the Chosen One as Ben states then much of what you post remains valid. And it still remains reasonable to ask at what exact point Luke 'restores Balance' to the Force. AFAIK most fans who 'vote Luke' in that debate have generally assumed that if the Chosen One was Luke then the 'restoration of Balance' occurred during the finale of ROTJ...

...BUT...WHAT IF...

...instead the Restoration of Balance by 'Chosen One' Luke IS YET TO HAPPEN...

...in that case your own hypothesis actually would dovetail neatly in IF Luke has himself realized that as you describe his attempt to reestablish the Jedi Order has caused further Imbalance, causing the rise of the Knights Of Ren exactly as you state, and NOW [at the outset of Ep VIII TLJ] the only way for Luke to fulfill his confirmed by Old Ben in Rebels prophesied Destiny as the Chosen One to Restore Balance to the force is, exactly as he says in the trailer, to ensure that the Jedi MUST end. Thus removing the 'raison d'etre' for the Knights Of Ren to continue to exist and thereby allowing the Force to provide means [presumably in Ep IX] that the Knights Of Ren will ALSO 'End' - FINALLY restoring Balance to the Force in a Galaxy where neither 'Jedi' nor 'Sith' ORDERS will thereafter exist ONLY independent ['grey'?] Force users [Rey, Finn and or others?]FOLLOWING ONLY the Will Of The Force itself NOT 'politics' or DOGMA of their respective 'Orders'[ORGANIZED 'religions'].

Could the Sequel Trilogy be about the Liberation of the Force from the 'orders' of Jedi and Sith into a new Balance consisting of unaffiliated 'grey' Force-sensitives who finally obey ALL the Will Of The ENTIRE Force itself - not fighting interminable Star Wars for ONLY Light or Dark 'sides' depending on their imbalanced and unbalancing 'teams'? Could that be what the Force has 'awakened' to/for?
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Scruffy Nerf Herder on April 19, 2017, 07:32:04 AM
its actually up for debate right now as to whether or not it was actually benicio del toro's character. im not sure myself but if it is mark, he doesnt sound the same saying that line as he does the earlier "breathe...what do you see?"

There is no debate, Mark Hamill himself stated at Celebration that Rian Johnson had him narrate the trailer.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: anakin2000 on April 23, 2017, 07:26:08 PM
I've been saying for years, the Jedi Order caused the imbalance in the force. why? because they DON't follow the will of the force.
(watch TPM. it's stated explicitly. by qui-gon.. the guy who is rewarded with immortality, BECAUSE he follows the will of the force).  :huh: (this is not coincidence)

the "Jedi Order" was founded at the same time as the Galactic Senate -- from Day#1, the Order swore an oath, to uphold the Will of the People.
which means --> from Day #1 , the institution called "Jedi Order" has PREVENTED the individual "Knights" from following the will of the force -- as a matter of POLICY.
(watch TPM. it's stated explicitly. by qui-gon.. the guy who is rewarded with immortality, BECAUSE he follows the will of the force). :huh: (this is not coincidence)

 
Luke is CORRECT in this trailer : the "Jedi" must end , for there to be any kind of balance in the force.
the individual "force users" MUST be allowed to follow the will of the force again, (AND interpret it, for themselves), like they did, thousands of years ago.

ie:a jedi who uses the force, to enact the will of the force, brings balance to the force.
a jedi who "uses" the force, "against its will", brings IMbalance.

(and how do we know this..? 
how do we KNOW this is the "Key to Balance" ...?

well, I know it's unpopular to say, but watch TPM (LOL):
the qui-gon character is all about "will of the force" AND he's rewarded with Immortality by his own God -- this is the theme of the PT: separation of church and state --
the Jedi Order were causing IMbalance, BECAUSE they were following the "will of the senate", which was corrupt and dysfunctional and evil and ruled BY a freaking sith lord --
again, I know it's unpopular, but watch TPM -- watch those "Senate Scenes" (don't skip thru them) -- these scenes are required exposition which show the Senate to be DYSFUNCTIONAL).

--> problem : the Jedi Order has sworn an oath to uphold the Will Of This Dysfunctional Senate.

(the Jedi Order have sworn an oath to FORSAKE the will of the force (!) --- instead, they uphold the Will of the Senate, at all costs (?) --- even when the Senate is shown to be EVIL(!?))

 :huh:

--> at the time of TPM:  the JEdi Order PREVENTS the individual "Jedi Knights", from following the will of the force(*) <---- and THIS causes imbalance in the force.

(( watch TPM : pay attention to qui-gon's dealings with the Jedi Council, as they banter over 'will of the force' vs 'will of the Senate'; and remember, qui-gon IS correct here...
and HOW do we know he is correct? BECAUSE, in the end, he is rewarded with "immortality" by his god; while the Jedi Council are destroyed))

((this reveals qui-gon to be correct -- the key to balance is "follow the will of the force"))
 
 
 



-->> at the end of ROTJ , the Jedi Order is gone; the Sith are gone; the ONLY "force user" left in the game... is Luke:
and Luke has been taught a different lesson : "let go your conscious self" and "let the force guide your actions"

(aka: "follow the will of the force" -- this is qui-gon's Mantra Of Balance, in a nutshell).

-->> at the end of ROTJ, "separation of church and state" has brought a New Balance to the force -- the "Order" is destroyed -- the "Knight", is NOW free , to follow the will of the force again.

and what does this Knight do..? 

he starts a NEW Jedi Order..!?
which immediately spawns a NEW "sith" movement..!?
which stands poised, to take over the Government..!? All Over Again..!?   :huh:

"D'oh!!" [/homer simpson]






(*)  "the Jedi Must End".  absolutely.   it was anakin's job , to wipe out the jedi AND the sith.   (and Luke needs to get with the program).

in the PT , NOBODY was following the will of the force.. 
the Sith had their own agenda, and the Jedi were Chancellor Vallorum's Lapdogs..
they did whatever the Evil Senate TOLD them to do.. without question.

THIS caused a dangerous imbalance in the force.. 

and so, the Force Itself spawned a "defense mechanism", to protect itself against imbalance: it spawned the Chosen One.
(a powerful being , destined to "bring balance to the force").

the role of the chosen one, was to wipe out ANYTHING, which would prevent the individual force-users, from following the will of the force.
(the role of the Chosen One was to destroy the rigid "institutions" of the force ..(both jedi and sith).. who were BOTH "using the force against its will").

((note:  the Rise of the "Sith Order" coincides with the advent of the "Jedi Order", they are 2 sides of the same coin, BECAUSE, one spawned the other ---
this was the universe trying to maintain equilibrium, after the Jedi Order started forsaking the Will of the Force, and "using" the force against its will ---
these two "institutions" opposed each other in a state of quasi-equilibrium (NOT "balance", per se) for a thousand generations --- BECAUSE --- one spawned the other))


--->> after ROTJ , luke tried to rebuild the "Jedi Order". with no "Sith Order" to keep it in check.
it was inevitable , that THIS ACT would spawn a new Sith Order (aka: Knights of Ren).. this is EXACTLY what happened the first time: "one spawned the other".

((READ : by rebuilding the Jedi Order , Luke has unwittingly unleashed MORE IMBALANCE on the universe -- he has unleashed the Knights of Ren, c/w death. and suffereing. and misery -- and NOW: he feels responsible))

 



the ONLY way the force can be in balance -- is for the individual force users, to "follow the will of the force" again.. 

this was the role of the Chosen One -- to MAKE this possible again.

it was anakin's job , to wipe out the jedi AND the sith. (and Luke needs to get with the program).

"I only know ONE truth --- the JEdi Must End."
<-- (this is true)  :tongue:  LOL


Wedge you know that I have generally agreed with that thesis before and I still do however I do not know if you watch and thus are aware or unaware that in a recent episode of Rebels, which is afterall official Canon [I have to admit it, as much as I dislike some of the other 'canon changes' since the Evil Mouse bought SW] OWK has clearly established that "the Chosen One" was LUKE NOT ANAKIN. 'Old Ben' confirmed it explicitly to Maul on Tatooine as Maul lay dying. Old Ben certainly would have known what we fans have long debated lol since he would have had ample opportunity to discuss it directly with the Force Ghost of QGJ during his training in Exile and it is unrealistic to imagine that he would not have harshly questioned QGJ about whether Anakin really was the Chosen One considering Anakin's Fall to Vader and Obi's part in it. Which only occurred because Obi followed QGJ's wish to insist against the will of the Council that Anakin be trained with the ultimately disastrous results of following his Master's lead on the matter. We might guess that QGJ admitted at some point to Ben that he had been wrong and Anakin was not the Chosen One afterall, and Ben would not have had reason to doubt QGJ who was afterall One with The Force, but whatever the exact nature of that conversation may have been it must have happened at some point over those 18 years, so Old Ben would have HAD to know FOR CERTAIN whether Luke was The Chosen One or not and Ben had ZERO reason to deceive dying Maul on the matter at that point [indeed his overreaction at the beginning of their battle makes sense only if Ben fully believed Luke WAS the Chosen One and therefore was near panicked by the thought of Luke falling into Maul's hands]. I think we can safely assume that if Ben believed it it was because QGJ believed it and if QGJ believed it then The Force believed Luke to be The Chosen One so imo that episode has 'settled' the question of which Skywalker was The Chosen One permanently.

However even if we accept Luke IS the Chosen One as Ben states then much of what you post remains valid. And it still remains reasonable to ask at what exact point Luke 'restores Balance' to the Force. AFAIK most fans who 'vote Luke' in that debate have generally assumed that if the Chosen One was Luke then the 'restoration of Balance' occurred during the finale of ROTJ...

...BUT...WHAT IF...

...instead the Restoration of Balance by 'Chosen One' Luke IS YET TO HAPPEN...

...in that case your own hypothesis actually would dovetail neatly in IF Luke has himself realized that as you describe his attempt to reestablish the Jedi Order has caused further Imbalance, causing the rise of the Knights Of Ren exactly as you state, and NOW [at the outset of Ep VIII TLJ] the only way for Luke to fulfill his confirmed by Old Ben in Rebels prophesied Destiny as the Chosen One to Restore Balance to the force is, exactly as he says in the trailer, to ensure that the Jedi MUST end. Thus removing the 'raison d'etre' for the Knights Of Ren to continue to exist and thereby allowing the Force to provide means [presumably in Ep IX] that the Knights Of Ren will ALSO 'End' - FINALLY restoring Balance to the Force in a Galaxy where neither 'Jedi' nor 'Sith' ORDERS will thereafter exist ONLY independent ['grey'?] Force users [Rey, Finn and or others?]FOLLOWING ONLY the Will Of The Force itself NOT 'politics' or DOGMA of their respective 'Orders'[ORGANIZED 'religions'].

Could the Sequel Trilogy be about the Liberation of the Force from the 'orders' of Jedi and Sith into a new Balance consisting of unaffiliated 'grey' Force-sensitives who finally obey ALL the Will Of The ENTIRE Force itself - not fighting interminable Star Wars for ONLY Light or Dark 'sides' depending on their imbalanced and unbalancing 'teams'? Could that be what the Force has 'awakened' to/for?

wrong thread for me to make this argument, but since it was presented, anakin is the chosen one. its stated multiple times throughout the prequels and is completed at the end of ROTJ. Lucas himself said the story of Star Wars was about Anakin Skywalker. And frankly, opinion of the creator and actual films take precedent over a TV show that airs on Disney XD
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: TrypWyr on April 24, 2017, 05:25:45 PM
wrong thread for me to make this argument, but since it was presented, anakin is the chosen one. its stated multiple times throughout the prequels and is completed at the end of ROTJ. Lucas himself said the story of Star Wars was about Anakin Skywalker. And frankly, opinion of the creator and actual films take precedent over a TV show that airs on Disney XD

"A prophecy... that misread could have been."

I guess you could take the word of the handful of Jedi that mention the Chosen One, and not accept Yoda's opinion that they may be wrong in some way. You could interpret it that since Vader destroyed the Emperor (and himself), he destroyed the Sith and brought balance to the force.

You could also interpret it that Luke really was the Chosen One as Kanomi states above. If the Sith still exist (Snoke and Ren?), then perhaps the restoration of balance has still to occur?

In the end, the story is still being written and all theories are viable and could be true, "from a certain point of view." ;)

And a side note, I understand how people would want to discount "a TV show that airs on Disney XD". However, if the creators say it's canon and it's written under the same overall direction and supervision as the films, I don't think there's much choice in the matter...
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: WEDGE ANTILLES on April 24, 2017, 07:00:11 PM
the only way Disney could call it 'canon', was to redefine the concept of canon. LOL :laugh:

ie : for 40 years, the definition was the same :  "[Stories by George]" are considered canon...   and "[Stories by -NOT- George]" were considered, 'not canon'.

ever since 1978 when Splinter of the Mind's Eye came out , this has ALWAYS been the definition of 'canon'.

it has ever been thus.   LOL

 



now suddenly, there's no more "stories by george" anymore.   

and there never will be, ever again.

--> according to the 40-year definition of canon, this means that everything Disney makes from now on, is technically defined as "EU". 

       *shrug*

(( according to the 40-year definition of "canon", Disney is releasing "stories by [not george]" --- just like "splinter of the mind's eye"))   

(( they have "rebooted" the entire EU and started over again (granted) , they are consciously RE-aligning it to the meet with the content of GL's saga (granted) -- note: this was sorely needed anyways, because the old EU had gone so far off-script, that ANY "Reboot" of the old EU would, by necessity, align itself with 'canon' all over again -- this was inevitable))

but the only way they can CALL this "canon" , is to REDEFINE the definition of the word 'canon'.  LOL 

(Like Goerge Orwell's Chocolate Ration) :P LOL



 


for me,

it's all about "context" -- I ALWAYS enjoyed the old EU.

but I enjoyed it in a different context, BECAUSE these were [stories by not-goerge].

-->  I did not take the ole EU seriously, and this gave me freedom to enjoy it, in a DIFFERENT WAY, than I enjoyed GL's movies

(read : If I took the "yuzzan vong" seriously , it would drive me mental -- it would rive me CRAZY trying to reconcile it with my beloved "OT", for example).

(just as : If I took the "TFA" seriously, it would drive me mental -- it would drive me CRAZY trying to reconcile it with my beloved "OT"). :P

BUT


because I consider ALL disney star wars to be "EU" star wars ..   this gives me the freedom to enjoy it!  :tongue: LOL







end of day : if I considered "TFA" in same context as GL's movies , then it would have a LOT TO LIVE UP TO!! 

(and it would fail, as a star wars movie).

but if I consider TFA to be simply just another "EU adventure" , then it's MUCH better than yuzzan vong!! 

(and it succeeds, as "entertainment")

-===-

end of day: I believe that ALL of the new Disney Star Wars stuff , WILL require its own context, in order for us old first-generation-fans to enjoy it.

this means : we cannot call it "EU" (because everyone hates EU) ; we cannot call it "canon" (because these are NOT "[stories by george]" anymore -- there's no such thing anymore); we must find a NEW way of looking at this.



---> call it "Nu EU" (if you like) ; call it "New Canon" (if you want) ; in the end, it doesn't matter what you call it, as long as you recognize the difference:

there IS a marked difference between "Disney Star Wars" and GL's "Star Wars".  (therefore)..

it is a mistake to pretend there is only ONE canon ---  only ONE "context" , for enjoying Star Wars.




I have ALWAYS enjoyed the comic book version of star wars , in a DIFFERENT WAY than I enjoy the films.   

and we cannot deny that these new movies , NOW take place in the SAME UNIVERSE , as the comic books.   

           *shrug* 

the films and the comic books are NOW part of the same "continuity" --- they NOW enjoy, the EXACT SAME "context", as Each Other.

(((and quite frankly, I've ALWAYS enjoyed the comic books. LOL)))    :tongue:  *shrug* 
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: TrypWyr on April 24, 2017, 08:18:05 PM
it is a mistake to pretend there is only ONE canon ---  only ONE "context" , for enjoying Star Wars.

Haha, I can accept that! :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: anakin2000 on April 25, 2017, 03:52:42 PM
wrong thread for me to make this argument, but since it was presented, anakin is the chosen one. its stated multiple times throughout the prequels and is completed at the end of ROTJ. Lucas himself said the story of Star Wars was about Anakin Skywalker. And frankly, opinion of the creator and actual films take precedent over a TV show that airs on Disney XD

"A prophecy... that misread could have been."

I guess you could take the word of the handful of Jedi that mention the Chosen One, and not accept Yoda's opinion that they may be wrong in some way. You could interpret it that since Vader destroyed the Emperor (and himself), he destroyed the Sith and brought balance to the force.

You could also interpret it that Luke really was the Chosen One as Kanomi states above. If the Sith still exist (Snoke and Ren?), then perhaps the restoration of balance has still to occur?

In the end, the story is still being written and all theories are viable and could be true, "from a certain point of view." ;)

And a side note, I understand how people would want to discount "a TV show that airs on Disney XD". However, if the creators say it's canon and it's written under the same overall direction and supervision as the films, I don't think there's much choice in the matter...

jj abrams has stated on numerous occasions that snoke and ren aren't sith
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Psab Keel on April 25, 2017, 10:21:07 PM
There is a lot of talk of the "will of the Force".  What does that even mean?  That would imply intention, which could imply sentience, which would imply a god of some kind?  It's the only logical explanation, which kind of goes against the entire idea of what the Force is, right?  I mean, Lucas has always disagreed with the idea of the Force being god.

I'm all for them further exploring the Force as a concept or even thinking of it differently than any of the previous films have, but if the "will of the Force" shows intention and that intention is to not have a Sith Order or a Jedi Order, then why in the galaxy far, far away would it even make it's presence known to anyone?  Especially when it could easily be manipulated by these two factions who literally have control over it?

"The Force is an energy field created by all living things." -Ben Kenobi

"Life creates it.  Makes it grow."  -Yoda

Those two ideas suggest that it's a power that is impersonal and WITHOUT intention.  The idea of a will negates that concept and suggests that it is a personified deity with preferences.

The other thing is that all of the necessary information needs to be told IN the movies.  You can have all of the supplemental material you want but if the movie is missing crucial information, then it's a bad movie.  Period.  The story needs to be self contained.  If I have to watch a TV show, read a comic book, play a video game, or read a novel to understand what happened in the movie, then it's a bad movie.  Can those multimedia sources enhance a movie?  Sure.  It just can't rely on those other sources to fill in the gaps in the script.




Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Obi_1 on April 26, 2017, 01:59:07 AM
I'm  not sure if it's anything to go by, but the German Title is definitively in plural. So there supposed to be many last Jedi.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Scruffy Nerf Herder on April 26, 2017, 12:37:41 PM
Is it just me or anyone else annoyed when folks use "Disney" as their excuse for how they feel about any of the new content?

Disney does not make Star Wars.  Lucasfilm does...and as such anything made by Lucasfilm IS canon.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: anakin2000 on April 28, 2017, 04:32:18 PM
its actually up for debate right now as to whether or not it was actually benicio del toro's character. im not sure myself but if it is mark, he doesnt sound the same saying that line as he does the earlier "breathe...what do you see?"

There is no debate, Mark Hamill himself stated at Celebration that Rian Johnson had him narrate the trailer.

yeah, read that a day or two after posting that comment. oh well :angel:
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: WEDGE ANTILLES on April 29, 2017, 08:12:24 AM
Is it just me or anyone else annoyed when folks use "Disney" as their excuse for how they feel about any of the new content?

Disney does not make Star Wars.  Lucasfilm does...and as such anything made by Lucasfilm IS canon.

Lucasfilm Ltd. made the entire "EU" which is now 'legends'.   

so... no...     anything made by lucasfilm is not always canon.





for 40 years the definition was thus:   stories written by GL were canon.   stories written by [NOT GL] were not canon.

*shrug*

in order for Disney to label their "Nu Star Wars" as "canon" , we must FIRST re-define the entire definition of canon. LOL  :huh: 

(read: George Orwell "1984") :P

 
 


^^ it's clever.   but in the end, it's just marketing.   

they are deftly afraid that the audience won't embrace what they're doing.  so they MUST insist that WE call it "canon".

-=============-

consider : Kylo's scar.

The HoloFeed ? Kylo Ren's Appearance Change in The Last Jedi (https://theholofeed.com/home-1/2017/4/20/kylo-rens-appearance-change-in-the-last-jedi)

Rian Johnson has moved the location of Kylo's scar.   why?  because he's Rian Johnson.  and he didn't like it.

I guess Johnson doesn't care much about continuity.  he's more of an impressionist.  his words on the matter:

"It was my decision to slightly adjust it, and that was my justification. It honestly looked goofy running straight up the bridge of his nose".



 
 
 

so now , I must ask :  which is the CANON version of Kylo's scar?

is it the scar on his eye?  (episode 8)  or the scar on his nose? (episode 7)

(( only ONE of these can be "CANON" ))



 


GL was VERY careful to match anakin's injuries to the metal skeleton we see in ROTJ in the brief flashes when vader gets zapped by lighting. that's why obi-wan managed to cut off 2 legs and 1 arm in a single swing, like JFK's magic bullet.. because ROTJ had already shown vader to have no legs and no arms, during the brief flashes in ROTJ where we see his skeleton, and Lucas wanted to match up his injuries for the sake of continuity. (and lets' face it, nobody would really notice those lightning flashes of skeleton anyways, and any extra injuries in ROTJ could be easily explained in the 20 year gap between films).

it's.. interesting.. to see that the new SW directors are not as 'anal' as GL , when it comes to creating their new version of SW continuity (aka:"canon").   

I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing -- ((to abandon the rigid notion of "continuity", in favor of 'artful impressionism' on the part of some random "hired-director"!?)) --  time will tell.



 

I guess the point here is , the new Disney SW can CALL ITSELF whatever it wants.   LOL

as long as we can ALL recognize , there IS a difference between GL"s "canon" star wars, and Disney's new "impressionist" star wars (which cares more about action-figure-aesthetics, than story-telling-continuity aka: "canon"). 

(( ie : "it looks goofy" suddenly trumps "story continuity" under Disney's New Canon!?  whut!?  <--- I'm not really sure WHAT to call this anymore -- but I KNOW it's a different animal, than GL's "old canon")) LOL

 :undecided:

cheers!

Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on April 30, 2017, 03:34:17 AM

for 40 years the definition was thus:   stories written by GL were canon.   stories written by [NOT GL] were not canon.



C'mon Wedge you know that isn't quite correct; while it may be true that for most of those 40 years officially licensed "stories written by [NOT GL} were not" G-canon it was 'officially' considered by Lucasfilm that licensed stories written by other authors like in the EU were still considered as canon to various lesser degrees [e.g. "c-canon" and "s-canon" etc.] as long as they didnt directly conflict with anything established onscreen in G canon and were NOT considered "not canon" until recent anti-EU revisions to canon after the sale to Disney.

Its quite clear imo why GL wanted to destroy the EU; because other better MORE ADULT writers managed to slowly over the EU pull a TROPE REVERSAL on George's 'original vision' [self admittedly intended to be suitable for CHILDREN] where it became 'canon' when the EU still was canon that THE EMPIRE WERE THE GOOD GUYS [this was mostly the work of Drew Karpashyn in KOTOR and his Bane books leveraging details from Outbound Flight and The New Jedi Order to construct a LOGICAL rationale for both the rise of the Empire and the construction of the Death Stars - superweapons intended to defeat Yuuzhaan Vong invadion Worldships that Sidious knew via Chiss contacts and Bane's holocron who knew via Revan's holocron who knew via Canderous Ordo that an extragalactic invasion of unknown but demonstrated superior forces was coming].

GL just couldnt stand that Drew Karpashyn MADE SENSE OF THE RISE OF THE EMPIRE and everything it did in a SMARTER better more adult way than GL did - Karpashyn EMBARRASSED GL with the juvenile stupidity of GLs 'vision' by FIXING ITS ILLOGIC for ADULT fans...

...and George's big fat EGO just couldnt stand that his juvenile 'vision' for his 'creation' was being IMPROVED by someone who was an obviously smarter and better writer than he is...soooo he had to DESTROY the 'canon'-icity of the EU even if that meant selling out to Disney who might take it in their own 'other direction' than GL's original vision in the future...

...but for NOW the EU MUST DIE! even if that SOMEONE ELSE doing what GL had said he WOULDNT ever do - episodes VII-IX - because "Star Wars is the tragedy of Darth Vader and when he dies it is over, the Emperor doesnt get cloned, Luke doesnt get married..." which was fine for GL to leave things at until he realized that the EU had made the Sith the 'necessary-evil-for-a-greater-good' guys building big baddddd Death Stars to defeat a GREATER EVIL only they knew about while the DUMB Jedi and Rebellion actually WEAKENED the SW Galaxy eventually causing TRILLIONS OF UNNECESSARY DEATHS in the Vong War because of their lack of "the vision thing" and commitment to oversimplistic moralizing...

...so the most important thing that had to be done was make sure that Episodes VII - IX would be made in order to UNDO the Vong War which would then remove the LOGICAL reason for Death Stars thus reverting Sw to George's original 'vision' of the Empire being just stupidly eeeeeeevil for no reason so that SW would be 'fit only for children and morons' again...thus undoing George's HUMILIATION at being shown up as a weak juvenile writer by a better one [or several] EU writers.

[I imagine if Roddenberry - who had as big an ego as GL and equally flawed personal morality if you read some of his biographies - had lived to see what other better more adult writers did to vastly improve Star Trek's milieu illogic and other flaws during the smartest most adult Trek series - Star Trek Deep Space Nine - then Roddenberry might have been similarly outraged at the departures of DS9 form his 'personal vision' but fortunatley since he'd already sold out Trek long before he couldnt have stopped Paramount from inverting MANY Trek tropes in DS9 the way GL could, did, and now HAS 'ruined' intelligent-SW in order to REGRESS SW back into dumb fantasy for kiddies and dim bulbs that is all GL ever wants SW to be - sadly].

Yes the canonicity of the EU established by Lucasfilms own decades-accepted system of LEVELS of canon [not the binary 'canon'/not-canon' you mis-stated] had to be destroyed in GL's opinion so that we MUST all return to GLs original juvenile vision of 'good guy Rebels and bad guy Imperials' where everything the Empire did no matter how illogical - like building Death Stars for no logical reason absent an imminent threat that required them - wouldnt have to be reasonably explained as Karpashyn did but could just be 'hand waved' by "the Imperials are EEEEEEVIL!" so as to not make the lil kiddies have to consider any 'shades of grey' in the same way that GL ruined Special Edition ANH with "Greedo shot first/at the same time" so as to not have the lil kiddies see any possibly confusing MORAL COMPLEXITY that they WILL see when they grow up - even at the expense of INSULTING THE INTELLIGENCE of those of us who were his ORIGINAL fans who HAVE grown up.
 

INFANTILIZING one's artwork is NOT a sign of a TRUE artist.

Selling out to The Evil Mouse and destroying the EU so that Star Wars can be 'safe' [intellectually/morally non-challenging] for kiddies and muggle audiences was NOT any mere "marketing" ploy - it is that; the pandering to the 'casual' and foreign market audiences in both Disney SW films is sadly apparent though too common in other movies these days - but its also a very clear sign of GLs emotional immaturity and insecurity that he had to destroy the work of other artists who created better 'sandcastles' in HIS 'sandbox' that made his look 'small' and thus him look 'weak' until he kickled over everyone elses sandcastles and threw them out of his sandbox and told everyone there were never any other sandcastles in the box but his all his...

...well that sounds postitively DESPOTIC eh...

...hmmmm...wasnt there an ancient Chinese emperor who tried to destroy all the Chinese "classics" [including the "Analects" of Kung Fu Tzu/Confucious and the "Tao Te Ching" - original source of many aspects of the Force btw - of Lao Tzu] so that that Emperor could pretend that 'history began with him alone'?

Historical revisionism is a sign of insecure ruler eh? Then similarly artistic revisionism is a sign of an insecurie artist.

Some GL-worshipping 'purists' may want to think that "only what is written by George COUNTS" and certainly anyone is always free to pick and choose what they decide 'counts' as canon FOR THEM and they can certainly choose to NOT consider Episodes VII-IX 'canon' because "by George ol chap it isn't by George so it doesnt count either!" if they like and I'm FINE with that - Freedom rocks eh! but it is DISINGENUOUS at best and perhaps far worse the artistic equivalent of historical revisionism to pretend NOW that that the EU was NEVER canon when by MANY contemporaneous sources UNTIL the sale to The Mouse the EU clearly was within A CERTAIN LEVEL of canon UNTIL it was retconned [revisionism] out of canon into "Legends".

If someone doesnt like the EU for the same reasons as GL hates it or other reasons of their own they can now safely disregard it as non-canon Legends [and because of free will always could really] but to pretend it was NEVER canon simply because it wasn't G-canon is just incorrect.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Bruce Wayne on April 30, 2017, 04:39:33 AM
I'm just going to say this: if I'm understanding correctly, the notion of George Lucas selling Star Wars to Disney to somehow accomplish his "master plan" of destroying the previous EU is just...I don't even have the right words.  I'm not touching that because I wouldn't even know what to start with.  :cheesy:

I look at it like this: Disney thought "Should we carry through all of the previous EU material into these new sets of movies or basically start from scratch?"  They did what was logical from a business standpoint, which was regard the previous EU as Legends (or "non-canon") and start anew for simplicity's sake.  Let's face it: the previous EU was not flawless by any remote stretch.  There was a lot of bad/mediocre stuff, contradictions, and boneheaded decisions.  However, there was a lot of good stuff as well that I, as well as many others, genuinely enjoyed.  But instead of sifting through the 30-odd years of previous EU material (some of which bordered on some overthought fan-fiction drivel) and cherry-picking what to keep and what to get rid of when setting up these new movies, Disney chose to basically overwrite it all.  Did it upset me when it happened?  Of course, as it did to many other Star Wars fans.  However, as time has gone on, I've gotten over it and have thought about it from a different perspective.  In the end, I feel like Disney made the decision that could be considered as a "necessary evil," meaning that no one wanted the previous EU to be made "non-canon," but it logically had to be done for a variety of valid reasons. 

Plus, just because Disney regarded the previous EU as "non-canon," it doesn't mean that characters, plot points, or events can't be utilized or haven't been utilized or adapted in this new canon.  Some examples of this would be the introduction of Thrawn, Rukh, Bane, and a few other characters from the previous EU to the current canon timeline, as well as the adaption of different plot points and events that have yet to fully develop (Han and Leia having a son that fell to the dark side, Luke making a new Jedi academy, etc.).  It's not like the old EU is "dead" by any stretch.  It's still there to be enjoyed and read and Disney is free to bring in fan-favorite characters and events and breath new life into them by adapting them to this new canon.

That's all I've really got to say on the subject.  I'm looking forward to what they bring to the table for The Last Jedi.  They had a near impossible job to bring in the old and the new together for TFA (both the characters and the fans), so I'm thinking that now that TFA is out of the way, they can focus on expanding this new trilogy in new and exciting ways.  Just roll with the punches, people, and try to enjoy things more.  :angel:
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Darth Chasm on April 30, 2017, 07:47:45 AM
Star Wars Can(n)on  :laugh:

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette2.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fstarwars%2Fimages%2F7%2F73%2FPlanet_Defender.png%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20130325042535&hash=d24bbfc496b2275da16f763b20e96096d1e3047f)
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Scruffy Nerf Herder on May 01, 2017, 07:48:34 AM
The Kylo Ren scar response is lackadaisical at best.  He has a scar, it's on the right side of his face and goes vertically from cheek to above eye.  That is now cannon...it makes zero difference if it's 2 cm left or right.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Obi_1 on May 02, 2017, 02:52:37 AM
I wholeheartedly disagree that Luke will die in Ep VII.  The "last Jedi" is apropos as Luke is really the last person in existence who is trained in the Jedi arts (as far as we know).  Rey is not a Jedi, she is "force sensitive" or a "force user" until she is trained in the Jedi way.

Also, remember that Snoke specifically called Luke "the last Jedi" in TFA.

Which is true if you consider that all his padawans he taught were killed or lost to the Dark Side. So it was stating the obvious from Snoke.

I felt that with the first Trailer Disney managed what they seem to excel in: either stating the obvious or laying false tracks. In R1 nearly the whole trailer material did not make an appearance in the movie and I think they will continue this practice, so that when the movie comes out, no matter how many minutes of trailers were seen, the story will still be largely unknown. Especially in this first trailer I did not find ANYTHING of interest, there was no new piece of information.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Scruffy Nerf Herder on May 04, 2017, 12:34:41 PM
I wholeheartedly disagree that Luke will die in Ep VII.  The "last Jedi" is apropos as Luke is really the last person in existence who is trained in the Jedi arts (as far as we know).  Rey is not a Jedi, she is "force sensitive" or a "force user" until she is trained in the Jedi way.

Also, remember that Snoke specifically called Luke "the last Jedi" in TFA.

Which is true if you consider that all his padawans he taught were killed or lost to the Dark Side. So it was stating the obvious from Snoke.

I felt that with the first Trailer Disney managed what they seem to excel in: either stating the obvious or laying false tracks. In R1 nearly the whole trailer material did not make an appearance in the movie and I think they will continue this practice, so that when the movie comes out, no matter how many minutes of trailers were seen, the story will still be largely unknown. Especially in this first trailer I did not find ANYTHING of interest, there was no new piece of information.

Rogue 1 trailer was not a ruse or a deflection.  The trailer was built before the rewrites and therefore included scenes that were later cut during editing.  This was also covered by the Gareth Edwards in that those scenes were cherry picked by those who make trailers to show highlights.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Psab Keel on May 05, 2017, 08:17:29 PM
Just based on the teaser it looks as though they aren't going for a soft reboot of Empire, which I am all for.  I could forgive TFA for being a soft reboot of ANH because of the new characters and just trying to get most of the fanbase back on board after the divisive prequels.

Disney was right to discard the EU as the source material for their new films.  There were only a handful of those books that were any good.  Not to mention how limiting it would have been creatively to stick to that as their source, plus NO surprises for the people who'd read them! 

The idea that Lucas sold Star Wars to Disney so that he could "wipe the slate clean" by erasing the EU is utter and total NONSENSE!  If he wanted total control over the story and continuity, he would have never sold Lucasfilm and kept making Star Wars movies the way HE wanted to.  Even when he sells his LIFE'S WORK over essentially to "the fans" people STILL hate him for it?  How is that fair?  He sold his creation, knowing that Star Wars needed to outlive him, and what did the fans do, they vilified him for it. 

Does anyone HONESTLY think that George Lucas is so vain and insecure that he has nothing better to do than read Star Wars novels (most of which are nothing more than crap fan fiction) and cry about it?  Let's be realistic here.  The fact that people get so up in arms over every decision that Lucas makes is part of the reason he sold his creation.  He wanted to be free of the unfair vitriol that had been aimed at him personally.  Does that mean that I agree with every decision the guy has made creatively?  Absolutely not!  But in all fairness, he's a human being and I would certainly have mixed opinions about my fans if all they did was crap on me for every choice I made.  I GET why he quit making movies. 

I'm happy to see that The Last Jedi looks as though they may be taking some risks.  We need that if the Star Wars Universe is going to survive as a franchise.  Otherwise what's the point?

If people are SO upset that Disney owns Star Wars and that they are "ruining" it, there's a simple solution.  DON'T WATCH THE NEW MATERIAL.  Vote with your wallet and stop buying the merchandise.  I hated the prequels, but nothing will unmake them.  That's life.  You got to get over it some time.





Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on May 06, 2017, 08:28:38 AM
Clearly Lucas DOES read SW novels [and the comic books too] from his comments about "the Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married". And just as clearly from those same comments he DISLIKES what other [some not all of whom are better] writers have done with his "life's work". I suspect he UNCONSCIOUSLY hates Star Wars for BECOMING his "life's work"; one can imagine his inner true self crying out "but I wanted to be a SERIOUS filmmaker!" but of course he can't SAY that [perhaps not even face it himself ocnsciously] so instead he 'acts out' against it by [again perhaps unconsciously] 'sabotaging' it. It certainly wouldnt be the first time in Human History [and not only in the sphere of art] that a 'creator' came to hate their own 'creation' and the 'burden' on their life of its success and try to 'free themselves' by ruining their own work. In such a subconscious its not about 'losing control' of his work the creator fears but the losing control of his own life because of the work he hates. George has shown many signs but that particular comment was the most telling and classic example.

George Lucas is a CHILD. He created a beautiful myth FOR CHILDREN - by his own admission - and because HE is ONLY capable of creating for children he HATED when ADULT writers made it into something more SOPHISTICATED than his childlike mind can ever be. His utter incompetence at writing emotionally mature dialogue and characterization in EpII: AOTC proves why only the most rabid fanboi likes that film and most adult audiences laughed/cringed at it. Seriously the Ani/Padme 'love' scenes are PAINFULLY awful, amongst the worst ever put to film. Because child-George can't comprehend adult Love [as his own personal life demonstrates] he cant begin to write about it competently so instead he makes Ani getting married the ULTIMATE REASON for his 'fall' and the destruction of the entire Jedi Order - are you kidding me George? What The Force?

Think about it: George hates the idea that LUKE GETS MARRIED to the point he has to DENY that ever happened in 'his' creation/universe - a psychiatrist would find that spectacularly revealing about George's own psyche esp considering that Luke [Lucas] Skywalker is his 'alter ego'.

One could go on endlessly about Georges' 'dysfunctional' relationship with his 'creation'...but it really isn't surprising that he has wanted a long time to 'get out from under' it so he could try to make 'serious' films [Flyboys? really George THAT was what you went with?] and be 'respected as an artist' like Coppola and Scorcese and Spielberg who are all taken seriously because they ARENT children and their 'life's work' isnt FOR children.

Unconsciously GEORGE HATES STAR WARS whether he realizes it or not. He probably can't admit it to himself but even if he could he'd never admit it to us because WE fans do LOVE it.

Which is why some of us fans who love SW might want IT to GROW UP even if HE CAN'T...and some fans who got the chance to write in the EU tried desperately to MAKE it into something 'grown up' even though that would make George hate it more. So THEY made Luke "grow up" and get married even though George HATES the idea.

THEY gave the Empire a logical raison d'etre and a sensible rationale for building Death Stars that George never could because he's not only an emotional child but a political naif who cribs his stories' politics from ancient history books and modern headlines without actually understanding even the basics of realpolitik [GL would make a weaksauce Sith Lord lol].

The Empire AS GEORGE WROTE IT NEVER MADE SENSE but he didnt care because SW was for children...until those children grew up and some began to ask questions - and others got jobs writing the EU and ANSWERED THEM as GL couldn't.

Yes you are CORRECT that much of the EU is in effect 'fan fiction' - but its fiction by professional writers who are also fans who were HIRED by LFL to write in the SW universe and because they ARE fans took it upon themselves to FIX Star Wars. To make it GROW UP, as they had, from what they first loved as children into something they could still love as adults; thats "fan fiction" of the BEST kind.

Yes a lot of the EU was dreck but 90% of EVERYTHING is dreck if there is any appreciable quantity of it - do you think the 1200+ books of the Arthurian canon were all epic as La Morte D'Arthur? Nope most were dreck too...ah but the GOOD ONES...

Zahn, Traviss, Karpashyn and others created some brilliant adult contributions that fixed and GREW the SW mythos...certainly better than anything GL did in the prequels.

George clearly HATED that.

So their work had to be destroyed to spare GL further embarrassment and most importantly his psyche from the realization he was a WEAK writer even of stories in his own milieu creation - the 'freeing future writers' tripe was just an EXCUSE for trashing the EU; a GOOD writer can write AROUND other writers contributions as any writers who collaborate always do [Wedge has previously pointed out how GLs anti-collaboration sentiment on the Prequels worked to their detriment] so their was never any reason to throw out the EU - unless you want to say that JJ Abrams is such a weak writer he couldnt write around Karpashyn, Traviss, Zahn et al contributions? As much as I hate the Big Lie ending of Lost and esp Star Trek Into Dumbness ;) I'm sure JJ could have written TFA with the EU in place.

In some ways we might hope that the Disney sale could lead to more adult stories in the future - but the nature of the modern media megacorporation 'consolidated' film industry pandering to muggle/'mainstream' audiences to maximize ROI in the foreign markets [particularly China - notice the effect that had on Rogue One eh] makes that unlikely as the first two post-George films seem to indicate...oh they might get 'darker' in 'tone' to SEEM more 'adult' instead of 'childish' but that's just surface appearance not actual true intellectual/emotional maturity of content.

But I hope to be proven wrong in Ep VIII TLJ...time will tell...

 

Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: anakin2000 on May 06, 2017, 01:19:20 PM
can this thread be re-directed to actually talking about the last jedi instead of whining about movies you don't like?
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on May 06, 2017, 04:25:55 PM
Please feel free to do so. :)

OK back to Ep. VIII then; The Last Jedi is actually a great opportunity to turn SW back towards adult storytelling. If you've read Wedge's brilliant insights on this site into the failings of the Old Republic Jedi Order you could see there is an opportunity therein for great writing if the writers of TLJ posit that Luke himself has reasoned somewhat similarly. If LUKE has similarly realized that the Jedi Order became a destructive part of the problem and his own 'failure' with restarting a new Jedi Order [pun intended] and Ben/Kylo has proven to him a Jedi Order can't work [in his opinion] then it would be entirely reasonable for Luke himself to believe that the Jedi must end and say so.

There IS a lot of potential for The Last Jedi to be a GOOD Star Wars story...PLEASE Disney *in Picard voice ;)* Make it so! ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Psab Keel on May 06, 2017, 09:44:53 PM
I think your assessment of Lucas as a person is reaching, but to each their own opinion.  The Empire as Lucas created it in the Original Trilogy made perfect sense thematically.  Again, we will just have to agree to disagree. 

The Last Jedi is a nice opportunity for Lucasfilm to try and push the story into new territory and hopefully give the fans insight into the Force and the mythos that hasn't been explored on film yet.  The films may have been marketed to kids, but the themes have always been so powerful because they resonate with people on a basic human level, whether you are 9 or 89.  Storytelling doesn't have to be complex to be considered adult. 

Perhaps what Luke has been searching for is the means to live in harmony with the Force, rather than use it's power for combat.  It makes me wonder if the guilt of all of his lost students caused him to doubt the need to even bother teaching anyone, or if there is more to it than just that.  People keep talking about this idea of a grey Jedi, one who neither fully embraces the dark, or the light, but what that means for the story I have no idea.  I'm assuming that good will win in the end, but how that will happen I don't know.  You figure the Republic is eliminated and now all that is left as far as the galactic power struggle is the First Order and the Resistance, which seem to be fairly small and more equally matched to one another. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on May 07, 2017, 06:45:30 AM


Perhaps what Luke has been searching for is the means to live in harmony with the Force, rather than use it's power for combat...

...You figure the Republic is eliminated and now all that is left as far as the galactic power struggle is the First Order and the Resistance, which seem to be fairly small and more equally matched to one another.

I rather like that idea and hope you are correct. Maybe the Force 'pushed back' [whether by 'will' of The Force or as a more nonpersonalized Newtonian-like counter-reaction] against being used by both Sith and Jedi alike and now needs Force users to be in harmony with the Force itself instead of 'opposing' each other as organized factions or 'orders' which has been the Jedi/Sith practice for millenia...or maybe the very idea of Force USERS is part of the problem and Luke has realized that; either premise could be a basis for good stories if the writers choose to go those directions. Or maybe they'll go another way entirely. I just hope they write it in a way that makes sense in the film itself so we dont have to wait for the DVD release to see 'deleted scenes' to finally make sense of things or buy novels where writers explain illogical aspects the theatrical release didnt bother to in the movie itself. I'll keep hoping for the best...

Oh and I'm not sure if the republic has been entirely eliminated - yes its leadership has been what we called first strike decapitated in the Bad Ol Days [did they have a Designated Survivor out-of-system to restore authority in event of attack? one would think that after the object lesson of Alderaan no governing body anywhere in the GFFA would ever again neglect that basic precaution but who knows?] but even if its C3 infrastructure is totally destroyed after TFA the large number of New Republic member worlds would still maintain a HUGE industrial capacity that could be reorganized to restore Republican institutions as soon as new planetary representatives could reconvene a new Senate somewhere else. Yes there would be a window of opportunity for the First Order to exploit until then but it wouldnt last forever as an 'elimination' of the Republic more like a 'pause'. But plenty of mischief could be accomplished in that time hmmmm...
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Psab Keel on May 08, 2017, 12:37:12 AM
True.  I meant to suggest that with the central leadership of the Republic being wiped out, it would be ample opportunity for the First Order to strike while the worlds that depend on the Republic were reeling from the loss.

It will certainly be interesting to see if that idea is the direction they take the story about the Jedi living in harmony with the Force rather than manipulate it for their own ends.  I like that idea.  Though how that might play itself on film I'm not really sure.

Luke does ask Ben in ANH if the Force controls your actions and Ben responds by saying partially, but it also  obeys your commands. 

Perhaps by USING the Force it causes unbalance, therefore Luke has renounced to use it because he has seen it's destructive power and that in order to end the galactic conflict once and for all, it must be forgotten. 

It certainly would up the stakes for Rey and other others to figure out a way to stop Snoke and Kylo Ren without giving in to the temptation to USE the Force.  We shall see.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on May 08, 2017, 05:29:54 AM
Interesting points.

Personally I am loathe to think of the Force as being like 'magic' [which I generally hate] but I am aware that Disney does like 'magic' so IF as part of their 'canon' revision Disney has decided to 'reconceive' the Force INTO a 'kind of magic' [ugh!] then there is a point about magic to consider...

In certain more systematic views of magic it is theorized that using magic comes with a cost [particularly heavy with necromancy/blood magic] so IF Disney reconceptualizes the Force as Magic perhaps one might posit that perhaps Luke has realized that with "Force magic" an "imbalance" occurs whenever the Force "obeys your commands" of a Force user without that user allowing it to in return "control your actions" as a balancing of metaphysical accounts so to speak.

In other words the Balance is broken whenever the Force is USED WITHOUT ITS NATURAL 'COST' BEING REPAID [by "serving" the Force itself rather than one's own intentions].

So if Jedi or Sith regardless of whether their intentions are doing good or doing evil are constantly USING the Force to literally 'push others/the Universe around' or impose their will - particularly in a combative fashion - without ever returning anything/replenishing/repaying/allowing the force to ocntrol their actions as well as making it obey their commands then the constant "Star Wars" [pun intended] between the Jedi and Sith factions would only increase imbalance in the Force over time regardless of who 'won' at any given point.

[This could have similarities to certain esoteric ideas about "tao" and about "karma" in certain Eastern traditions hmmm...]

In such a case even if 'balance' had been restored by the events at the end of Ep.VI ROTJ then by restarting a Jedi Order again and once again training people to USE the force Luke could have been restarting the same cycle of increasing imbalance once again. If his failure with Ben/Kylo made him realize that he might well want to withdraw from Galactic affairs to not further inflame that mistake. In such a case he might well want both the Sith and Jedi to simply 'die out'.

The question might then be whether Rey would/could convince him that reasserting himself into the mix in Ep.VIII TLJ/Ep.IX, either personally or by training her, would make such imbalance worse by bringing forth a new Jedi or help correct it by defeating Kylo/Snoke?

A thorny dilemma indeed eh?
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Psab Keel on May 08, 2017, 07:58:28 AM
Thats an interesting concept and certainly a possibility for the story.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Obi_1 on May 09, 2017, 07:16:45 AM


I rather like that idea and hope you are correct. Maybe the Force 'pushed back' [whether by 'will' of The Force or as a more nonpersonalized Newtonian-like counter-reaction] against being used by both Sith and Jedi alike and now needs Force users to be in harmony with the Force itself instead of 'opposing' each other as organized factions or 'orders' which has been the Jedi/Sith practice for millenia...or maybe the very idea of Force USERS is part of the problem and Luke has realized that; either premise could be a basis for good stories if the writers choose to go those directions. Or maybe they'll

I do not particularly like the idea of a Galaxy Far. Far Away devoid of good and evil. Reason is simple (and the same for which I was shaking my head when reading about your ranting against GL): we love this story because it is essentially a fairy tale about the struggle between good and evil set in a sci-fi environment. Period.
That is what we fans all like and that's what we want to get.
If I want adult content or philosophy, I turn in another direction, but not to SW.

As to Luke being the one who recognizes that the Galaxy is kept in a constant flux of good vs. evil and want to change it: well, at the end of TFA, he looks like a Force-Druid. Rey looks the same in her new outfit presented at the end of the movie. Maybe it was already a hint. But I do not like it. Period.

I personally think that Disney did not have a real idea like GL used to have, they just wanted to earn money. It was clearly visible in TFA, which in retrospect for me scores above TPM but under all other movies. No new ideas, no strong characters, maximum likable, no new story. They could make a perfect war movie out of R1 because they did not have to think about a concept, all was laid down. THat is why R1 scores for me directly following OT.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Scruffy Nerf Herder on May 09, 2017, 09:14:22 AM
I dunno why I feel like I have to repeat this but...

DISNEY DOES NOT RUN LUCASFILM!!!!!!

I just grinds my gears every time someone talks as if Disney writes these movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: WEDGE ANTILLES on May 09, 2017, 09:49:13 AM
TFA was a co-production between Bad Robot and Lucasfilm;   Bad Robot had creative control (a condition of JJ's participation);  and JJ worked directly with Bob Iger, to make TFA*
(according to pablo higaldo, they were notoriously difficult to work with -- JJ/Iger made last-minute decisions without consulting the 'story group', aka:"lucasfilm").
 
so, while TFA was not 'written by disney' -- it certainly wasn't written by lucasfilm either. :P LOL (they were often left out of the loop).


-===-


* watch: JJ interview Bob Iger:


JJ: " ...can you just talk about what Star Wars means to you, not just as THE PERSON WHO NOW OVERSEEING THESE with Kathy Kennedy, but as a fan...?"


http://feature.variety.com/bob-iger-showman-of-the-year/jj-abrams-and-bob-iger-in-conversation (http://feature.variety.com/bob-iger-showman-of-the-year/jj-abrams-and-bob-iger-in-conversation)



JJ talks about their "collaboration"[his word].  and it's VERY clear that (a) Iger had creative input and (b) Iger is JJ's 'boss'.
(therefore Iger had the final say).
 
Iger refers to it as a "Disney Movie", (says it's not like 'other' Disney Movies), and then he goes on about how it 'takes a village' to run a company like Disney.

he even goes so far as to say, he has brazenly appointed HIMSELF to be the "STEWARD of the Star Wars Brand".    :huh:

--> Star Wars is controlled by Disney.      hands down.    no question,  FROM THE HORSE'S MOUTH.   :tongue:  LOL



Iger says, in his own words,  the 'acquisition' was far too valuable for him to NOT be involved -- he couldn't just allow Lucasfilm do their own thing, without micro-managing the project.**

(result : JJ says, TFA was a "collaboration" between JJ and Bob Iger -- Between "Bad Robot" and DISNEY -- Bob Iger was on-set making Story-Decisions with JJ, "..through all of its iterations -- and there were many iterations.."[JJ's words]).

((Lucasfilm did NOT write this movie)) LOL  :tongue:  ((Disney had more control over TFA than Lucasfilm -- why? because Disney had control of Bad Robot. and Bad Robot had "creative control" of the project...

...Bad Robot reported DIRECTLY to Bob Iger @ Disney; not to kathleen kennedy @ Lucasfilm -- LOL -- the relationship was such, that JJ describes it as a direct "collaboration" between himself and Bob Iger -- (a collaboration between Bad Robot and Disney) -- "lucasfilm" was just along for the ride))


-====-

** Bad Robot had nothing to do with Rogue One.   IMDb lists 5 production companies for Rogue One,  and Bad Robot is not among them.  (Lucasfilm is listed FIRST of the five production companies).


however , Bad Robot IS producing The Last Jedi.   even without JJ directing.   (Bad Robot is listed FIRST out of four production companies involved in Episode 8 -- the others are LFL, Disney, and Ram Bergman Productions).



Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on May 09, 2017, 09:58:06 PM
Very interesting Wedge.

Alas it does nothing to allay and may even exacerbate my fear that "the Magic Kingdom" intends to 'retcon' the Force into just another kind of Magic :( ...if not by the theoretical rationale I described above then by some other...

-sigh-
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Psab Keel on May 10, 2017, 04:32:21 AM
As long as the stories and characters are there I don't really care so much who helms the franchise. 

Say what you want about TFA but at least the characters were relatable. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: anakin2000 on May 10, 2017, 03:06:42 PM
I agree that in retrospect TFA was not a fantastic movie. I sort of miss this being Lucas' franchise and story. While TFA and R1 were satisfying movies, they didn't (for me) seem to have that element of mystique ... its difficult to put in to words, just feels off because it didn't remind me of Lucas' Star Wars, which is why I tend to consider ST completely independent of the original 6. Hopefully TLJ turns this around!
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Obi_1 on May 11, 2017, 01:30:07 AM
I agree that in retrospect TFA was not a fantastic movie. I sort of miss this being Lucas' franchise and story. While TFA and R1 were satisfying movies, they didn't (for me) seem to have that element of mystique ... its difficult to put in to words, just feels off because it didn't remind me of Lucas' Star Wars, which is why I tend to consider ST completely independent of the original 6. Hopefully TLJ turns this around!

I had similar feelings about TFA. R1 was different for me, I expected a war movie and I got it! The space battle is only next to the one in ROTJ! I keep replaying it over youtube, simply phenomenal! For me, many aspects of the movie did feel like Lucas' SW. It gives me some hope that Disney can do it if they set their minds on it. I'm just a bit unsure what will happen if their hands are not bound.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on May 11, 2017, 06:47:54 AM
I rather liked many aspects of TFA including the new characters and agree the space battle in R1 was awesome and also that seeing Vader in full-out fighting 'fury' was epic and something we've all wanted to see since 1977 eh? But I too wonder how much Disney-fication will infect SW "if their hands are not bound"

[STRONG ADVISORY to Disney corporate marketing types to 'fuggedaboud' "marketing synergy" ploys; if we EVER see a 'mouse-alien' Jedi/Sith in any SW film I suspect many fans would be sorely tempted to go 'Force Unleashed' on their 'magic kingdom'. LOL]

Lets all have high hopes for TLJ though. Just because Mark Hamill said that they care nothing for quality only for money that doesnt mean that it might not be good 'accidentally'; we can still have Hope, which is a big part of SW anyway eh?
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Psab Keel on May 11, 2017, 09:11:30 PM
I think many people have taken that statement Mark made a bit out of context.  Yes Disney is a business and of course they are concerned about making money.  Though I think it's fair to say that they are smart enough to know that in order to keep making money they need to make the fans happy by providing good content.

My take on Mark's comments is that they are more directed towards Hollywood in general.  That's not to say that Lucasfilm hasn't had some missteps, but I think they have tried to provide good stories for the fans, even if they haven't always succeeded they seem to care about their movies more than some other studios. 

I've also read that Mark's performance in The Last Jedi could earn him an Oscar nomination!  Could you imagine!  That would be incredible, and honestly well deserved.  He is SO underrated!
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on May 11, 2017, 09:59:07 PM
I agree that his comments were directed more at Hollywood than at LFL but that is exactly the problem as Wedge described with Disney 'taking over' CONTROL of TFA.

As soon as he became successful enough after ANH and ESB to do so GL tried to separate himself and LFL and SW to a considerable degree from the more typically 'Hollywood' ways of moviemaking, even removing himself physically e.g. Skywalker Ranch etc.

Disney however is purely Hollywood moviemaking in all its worst aspects PLUS its worst Mediarchy Megacorporation aspects so even if we agree that Mark's commments were more about Hollywood that doesnt bode well long term for the SW franchise under Disney domination.

And I'm not sure Disney cares that much about us real 'hardcore' SW fans.

Megacorporations are ALL about GROWTH [being profitable isnt enough they have to always be growing esp market share so they can increase their stock value and esp borrowing power which is their real economic raison d'etre not mere bottom line profitability which is merely necessary but not sufficient in the FAKE economy that we have in the modern world but thats a whole other macroeconomics course lol] so if they calculate that, for example, dumbing down SW to appeal to 'casual fans' means more Almighty Dollar$ than being faithful to what true SW fans want/expect they won't hesitate to throw us under the bus on their way to mass/casual audience/foreign box office $ucce$$

Besides they figure that we will remain loyal to them even if they arent loyal to us and buy whatever they put out anyway so there isn't any 'growth' incentive in addressing OUR interests - where there IS 'growth' meaning Almighty Dollar$ [or Almighty Yuan as the case may be lol] is in CHINA, INDIA and other third/developing world markets so if they can make SW appeal to the billions of Chinese etc they can safely IGNORE us long-time loyal 'domestic market' fans that arent as important to the corporate bean counters anymore or at least take us for granted. Certainly they don't need to CARE about what WE think if they can afford - literally - to lose us 'serious' fans but gain a billion Chinese 'casual' fans eh? Its the same thing that led Star TREK 'into Dumbness' to appeal to scientifically illiterate muggle audiences instead of being true to generally scientifically literate true Trekkies; "cold-fusion-bombs" FREEZING volcanos [what the Force???] and Khan magic-blood [Dr McCoy can retire now that any doomed Starfleet 'redshirt' can just pack a hypospray of cloned Khan blood and CURE DEATH eh?] and all the rest of the dumbed-down-for-muggle-audiences nonsense typical of modern Hollyweird moviemaking. -sigh-.

But I still hope TLJ will prove the exception to that general and increasing trend in Hollywood movies over the last decade. I'm not terribly confident of it...but i do HOPE for it to be truly GOOD or even GREAT and hey I'd love to see Hamill get an Oscar for playing Luke as much as any of us would so from your mouth to The Force's ear eh? ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: WEDGE ANTILLES on May 12, 2017, 08:51:16 AM
I guess the point of my rant was, LucasFilm does not produce star wars movies independent of outside influences. 
they have essentially "sub-contracted" the episode-movies to Bad Robot*, who in turn, answers directly to Disney.

*(in the same way that LucasARTS doesn't actually make video games anymore -- they have sub-contracted the development over to "EA games" -- they have become just SW publishing company now; not so much a "game developer" anymore).
 
*('Rogue One' lists FIVE DIFFERENT production companies -- this has become "corporate movie-making" -- LFL is no longer an "independent" studio, like it was when GL first started it)

(they have as much control over JJ, as they ever had over Timothy Zahn -- or EA games, for that matter --- these movies are being developed under the "EU" business model)

 




in the end, I don't think it's a conscious attempt to dumb things down and make things 'vanilla flavored' for the sake of casual fans (or the chinese market) -- I think it's just a natural consequence of "too many cooks", with too many fingers in the pie.  (a natural consequence of "corporate" movie-making).

I think everything just ENDS UP "vanilla flavored". simply BECAUSE it's a corporate-mega-production, sub-contracted to the movie-making equivalent of "EA Games" (aka: Bad Robot) -- or the movie-making equivalent of an "EU comic book writer" (aka: JJ abrams) -- these people are HIRED to make "corporate pablum", and so, quite naturally, that's what they produce.

Star Trek was a good example.  it has all the checklist-elements of the classic Star Trek.. but it has no Soul.   (it's like images on glass, with no substance behind it -- its a 'reflection' of Star Trek -- without actually BEING star trek  :tongue: if you take my meaning).



 

it's much like the old EU:  where third-party authors were allowed to write their own stories, and GL was basically just "licensing" his Universe for other storytellers to exploit.

he didn't tell them what to write.  he didn't even keep track of it.  he didn't care.   this was merely just a "reflection" of Star Wars, afterall -- a corporate-pablum version of Star Wars, which only served to provide an alternate revenue stream. 

^^ unfortunately : THIS is what SW has become ,  to the Disney Corporation.    through no fault of its own .. Star Wars has become "corporate pablum".

(and/or:    it's ALL "EU" now!   :tongue:  LOL)

cheers!
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Scruffy Nerf Herder on May 12, 2017, 09:17:05 AM
Having spoke with Timothy Zahn at length over this exact subject, Disney nor Lucasfilm have much influence over how he writes.  They barely gave him any info about Thrawn in the Rebels series while he was writing his book on the same character.  He told me (I'm paraphrasing) Disney/Lucasfilm gave me no direction whatsoever on the subject matter so long as it followed their established cannon in the SW universe.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: WEDGE ANTILLES on May 12, 2017, 09:28:02 AM
^^ and now guys like JJ are doing the same thing, with movies.... 

...but -- unlike Zahn -- JJ "collaborates" directly with, (and answers directly TO), Bob Iger @ Disney :sad:

 


(point: LFL does not make these movies 'in house' anymore -- they hire them out to other companies).
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Psab Keel on May 12, 2017, 08:13:02 PM
As it stands now there HAVE to be multiple production companies to fund these kinds of films.  Just taking a look at the actor's salaries being in the tens of millions of dollars, no single production company could conceivably foot the bill for an entire movie.

That being said, whether we like it or not Star Wars has long abandoned being the vision of a rogue filmmaker.  In fact there are very few movies today that are.  Star Wars is a product.  It's a brand.  It's no longer art in the sense that it once was.  That's not to say that it's bad.  It's just different.

Could Star Wars be artful once more?  It's hard to say.  I have hope that it could be.  I sincerely believe that the people in charge of making these films genuinely love them.  Will they make some crappy ones?  Sure.  But they may just yet make some great ones.  I have to say though that I just shake my head in shame when I hear people say that Rogue One is the best Star Wars film ever made.  I honestly don't even recall half of it.  Even the prequels were more memorable.  Bad films but at least memorable.   

The Original Trilogy will ALWAYS be the pinnacle by which not only other Star Wars films are judged, but benchmarks by which ALL movies are judged.  They will always reign supreme and I am glad of it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: anakin2000 on May 13, 2017, 06:46:20 PM
As it stands now there HAVE to be multiple production companies to fund these kinds of films.  Just taking a look at the actor's salaries being in the tens of millions of dollars, no single production company could conceivably foot the bill for an entire movie.

That being said, whether we like it or not Star Wars has long abandoned being the vision of a rogue filmmaker.  In fact there are very few movies today that are.  Star Wars is a product.  It's a brand.  It's no longer art in the sense that it once was.  That's not to say that it's bad.  It's just different.

Could Star Wars be artful once more?  It's hard to say.  I have hope that it could be.  I sincerely believe that the people in charge of making these films genuinely love them.  Will they make some crappy ones?  Sure.  But they may just yet make some great ones.  I have to say though that I just shake my head in shame when I hear people say that Rogue One is the best Star Wars film ever made.  I honestly don't even recall half of it.  Even the prequels were more memorable.  Bad films but at least memorable.   

The Original Trilogy will ALWAYS be the pinnacle by which not only other Star Wars films are judged, but benchmarks by which ALL movies are judged.  They will always reign supreme and I am glad of it.
I was with you up till the last paragraph. all 6 movies which told georges original story are important..
and yeah, I hate to say but star wars now is almost just a brand. the new movies will be fine, sure, but they won't carry the passion or magical element that were in the original 6. thats why the movies are almost watered down-LFL doesn't even produce the movies anymore. I might get a lot of hate for saying it but I miss George
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Psab Keel on May 13, 2017, 10:26:19 PM
I think we are in agreement for the most part.  I concede that the prequels (though they are bad films) are definitely the work of Lucas's vision brought to life, which was uniquely his own.  I disliked most of his creative decisions on those, but I have to give the man credit for making the films the way HE wanted to.  Even if I didn't like them.

The Star Wars story group is just that.  A group.  That's not to say that they can't come up with some really great ideas.  It's just a different way of making films.  There are almost no directors like the ones that came out of the 70's and 80's who are true visionaries who make unique and distinctly different kinds of films.  98% of what gets released these days is just created by marketing heads for mega corporations that only care about the bottom line.  Movies are a business first and rarely an art these days. 

I know Disney fits that description, but I do think that if they give the greenlight to talented directors and writers Star Wars could be great.  TFA wasn't perfect but it was a step in the right direction as far as creating new characters that I could get behind. 

I'm hopeful that The Last Jedi will continue to move in the right direction.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Grigoris on May 29, 2017, 04:31:39 PM
Could Star Wars be artful once more?  It's hard to say.  I have hope that it could be.  I sincerely believe that the people in charge of making these films genuinely love them.  Will they make some crappy ones?  Sure.  But they may just yet make some great ones.  I have to say though that I just shake my head in shame when I hear people say that Rogue One is the best Star Wars film ever made.  I honestly don't even recall half of it.  Even the prequels were more memorable.  Bad films but at least memorable.   

I liked Rogue One - wouldn't say its the best, but one of the best, yes. While it may not be artful, they did try some new things in RO, and the ending was taking a risk. They didn't have to end that way with the Sam Peckinpah ending. I think that's a big reason it did well. Looking forward to TLJ. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Psab Keel on May 29, 2017, 06:14:54 PM
I'm glad they made Rogue One and that they took chances on trying to do new things with the franchise.  I just didn't care about the characters at all.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on May 29, 2017, 07:51:36 PM
I liked the ending of Rogue One and thought it did a nice job tying in to SW Ep.IV ANH. I agree with Psab that it was good they took some chances even though the R1 characters were not very memorable and also imo not nearly as interesting as the characters in Ep. VII TFA - I think Rey, Finn and Poe are worthy successors to the OT triumvirate and well acted even though the story in TFA was rather disappointing [and Ren is just not as menacing as Vader and imo never will be; they shouldnt have shown Ren's face in TFA at all that was a terrible error]. I can only hope that with Ep. VIII TLJ maybe oh please this once they will get good characterization AND good storytelling in a new SW movie done right. Well I can hope eh?
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: TheSaberCore on May 30, 2017, 12:22:53 PM
I disagree about Kylo Ren, I thought they did a great job with him. I think the writers of TFA knew they were never going to make a villain as intimidating or iconic as Darth Vader, so did the opposite: they went with the flawed, Vader wannabe that is Kylo Ren and gave him an unstable, makeshift lightsaber to match his fiery and uneven personality. Hopefully we get to see his further training in this movie, I think that would create a really cool dynamic seeing Rey and him grow stronger at the same time.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Psab Keel on May 30, 2017, 03:14:26 PM
It would be cool to see Kylo train with Snoke the way Luke trained with Yoda in Empire.  Just the Sith version.  That would be a really cool story reversal.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Greenie on May 31, 2017, 01:30:54 PM
That would be cool but I'm imagining a training montage similar to RockyIV  :cheesy:
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on May 31, 2017, 04:24:59 PM
Kylo Ren's unstable lightsaber reflects his unstable personality? Hmmm that makes perfect sense form a character-creation point of view, so I'll give JJ and co props for that.

Yeah I'd like to see Snoke training him in TLJ too - we've never really seen what SITH training is like onscreen so that could be a really interesting addition to the mythos.

It could be interesting if they alternated between scenes of Luke training Rey and Snoke training Ren to highlight the similarities and differences...wouldnt have to necessarily be like the Rocky IV alternating Drago and Rocky training montage though that could be an option or they could alternate longer scenes but to contrast the probably brutal training methods of the Sith with those of the Jedi could be very dramatically valid and really ought to be done to distinguish Rey and Ren further before their inevitable final showdown whether in this or the next movie. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: WEDGE ANTILLES on June 10, 2017, 09:19:08 AM
do we know for certain that Snoke is a "sith"?
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: anakin2000 on June 10, 2017, 10:00:34 AM
do we know for certain that Snoke is a "sith"?

no because JJ Abrams said that Snoke and Ren aren't sith
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: WEDGE ANTILLES on June 27, 2017, 01:39:26 PM
somebody told me a synopsis of the aftermath books. apparently, Palpatine was hearing a voice in his head. other Sith heard it too.
the voice was telling him to go to an unexplored region of the galaxy beyond the outer rim. but he was too busy building death stars and getting himself killed.
so: when he died, the imperial fleet was instructed to go beyond the outer rim, and find the source of the voice in his head. without him.

 


it's clear to me now who snoke is. and what he wants.

 


snoke is the first 'dark side' force user, who has somehow managed to make himself Immortal.*   Rey is the first "light side" force user,  who is reincarnated-by-the-Force, over and over, in an effort to stop him.

in a previous life, she created the jedi order.. and many thousands of years ago, her Jedi Order managed to defeat this being. but he is immortal, so they couldn't kill him.  instead, they imprisoned him. and he has called out to Evil Force Users over the centuries, to come find him and rescue him.

what does he want? a new body. his old body is broken. obviously. (this is the ONLY thing we know about snoke; therefore it is a plot point) --- he has called out to Evil Force Users over the years, and he has tried to lure one of them to come to his location, to release him from his prison and BE his new host body.
 
Palpatine heard the call. but Palpatine only sent his fleet; he didn't come in person --> so NOW: snoke has been released from his prison by the Imperial Fleet, but snoke STILL needs a new body, of a PURELY evil force-user, to be his new host.

so.. what does he want?

he wants Ben Solo, aka: Kylo Ren, to be his new host body --> Ben Solo is snoke's "dark-side" Chosen One, (as per: "snoke is using you") -- Ben has been "chosen" (by snoke), to embody the "spirit" of the original dark side force user -- as it transfers its consciousness, from one host to another. but Ben is not evil enough (as per:"there's still light in him"). so snoke can't use him for this purpose. yet.

* this is how the Original Dark Sider has kept himself alive all these centuries: he transfers himself into new bodies; meanwhile the Original Light Sider gets "reincarnated" over and over, to oppose him, and maintain Balance.
((he has been alive 'continuously', and she has been alive 'repeatedly', for thousands of years)).
 
 
 
^^ Luke knows all this. when snoke first came on the scene and corrupted Ben Solo, Luke recognized this was an Ancient Evil -- and he has no idea how to defeat it. he went in search of the Original Jedi Temple, so he could find out exactly how the Original JEdi Order managed to imprison this thing, a thousand years ago. and what he learned: it requires a "light-side" Chosen One: the being "chosen" by the Force, to be the reincarnation of the original Light Side User. this is the ONLY way to imprison snoke, all over again.

so he sat there.  and he waited. for Rey.  he waited for the original Light Side User (aka: light side Chosen One) to reveal herself in the flesh, "re-incarnated" -- and when it is finally revealed to him, that the child he left on jakku IS the reincarnation of the original light side force user .. he is gob-smacked.




Now Ben has 'passed the test' and killed his father Han, this means Ben is finally Evil Enough, that Snoke can finally train him to become snoke's replacement host. snoke is vulnerable at this moment, because he is trapped in a broken body.. but..  if he transfers his consciousness into Kylo, then there will be no stopping him
--> Rey convinces Luke, that the time to act is NOW.

- one of them will advocate killing Kylo, to prevent him from becoming a Host Body to the Ultimate Evil (probably Rey);
- the other will advocate turning Kylo back to the light side, as per: ROTJ Vader Redemption Motif (probably Luke).

in the end: the spirit-of-Snoke WILL enter Kylo's body -- then Rey & "Snoke-in-Kylo's-body" will fight a passionate lightsaber duel, as she fights for Ben's Very Soul -- and it will 'seem like' all hope is lost, now that Snoke has succeeded in his Ultimate Goal -- now that snoke has found a new host, and taken FULL control of Kylo's body...

...but Kylo is not FULLY evil -- "there is still light in him"[Carrie Fisher] --> Rey WILL turn Kylo back to the light side.. but only AFTER snoke has ALREADY used Kylo as his New Host.. only AFTER snoke's own broken body is dead.

(ie: once Snoke has "won", and accomplished his Goal of using Kylo Ren as his New Host -- once it seems like "all hope is lost" -- then Kylo will 'mentally' defeat the 'spirit of snoke', from within: that small bit of 'light' inside of him, will take control -- thus destroying the 'spirit of snoke', FOR GOOD).

this will break the cycle of 'dark vs light' , and Rey's Spirit will no longer be reincarnated EITHER, over and over again, to oppose an immortal snoke.

(ie: once the spirit of the "Original Dark Side User" is finally dead , then the spirit of the "Original Light Side User" will no longer be reincarnated over & over, by the force: this will break the cycle of Dark vs Light, and unify The Force into a SINGLE entity (no more "dark side" vs. "light side" anymore -- only just "the force" from now on); the "human" bodies of Rey and Ben will be 'Free' to live their lives (to fall in love?); and everyone lives happily ever after).








I called it
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: oswaldkefo on June 27, 2017, 10:24:41 PM
somebody told me a synopsis of the aftermath books. apparently, Palpatine was hearing a voice in his head. other Sith heard it too.
the voice was telling him to go to an unexplored region of the galaxy beyond the outer rim. but he was too busy building death stars and getting himself killed.
so: when he died, the imperial fleet was instructed to go beyond the outer rim, and find the source of the voice in his head. without him.

 


it's clear to me now who snoke is. and what he wants.

 


snoke is the first 'dark side' force user, who has somehow managed to make himself Immortal.*   Rey is the first "light side" force user,  who is reincarnated-by-the-Force, over and over, in an effort to stop him.

in a previous life, she created the jedi order.. and many thousands of years ago, her Jedi Order managed to defeat this being. but he is immortal, so they couldn't kill him.  instead, they imprisoned him. and he has called out to Evil Force Users over the centuries, to come find him and rescue him.

what does he want? a new body. his old body is broken. obviously. (this is the ONLY thing we know about snoke; therefore it is a plot point) --- he has called out to Evil Force Users over the years, and he has tried to lure one of them to come to his location, to release him from his prison and BE his new host body.
 
Palpatine heard the call. but Palpatine only sent his fleet; he didn't come in person --> so NOW: snoke has been released from his prison by the Imperial Fleet, but snoke STILL needs a new body, of a PURELY evil force-user, to be his new host.

so.. what does he want?

he wants Ben Solo, aka: Kylo Ren, to be his new host body --> Ben Solo is snoke's "dark-side" Chosen One, (as per: "snoke is using you") -- Ben has been "chosen" (by snoke), to embody the "spirit" of the original dark side force user -- as it transfers its consciousness, from one host to another. but Ben is not evil enough (as per:"there's still light in him"). so snoke can't use him for this purpose. yet.

* this is how the Original Dark Sider has kept himself alive all these centuries: he transfers himself into new bodies; meanwhile the Original Light Sider gets "reincarnated" over and over, to oppose him, and maintain Balance.
((he has been alive 'continuously', and she has been alive 'repeatedly', for thousands of years)).
 
 
 
^^ Luke knows all this. when snoke first came on the scene and corrupted Ben Solo, Luke recognized this was an Ancient Evil -- and he has no idea how to defeat it. he went in search of the Original Jedi Temple, so he could find out exactly how the Original JEdi Order managed to imprison this thing, a thousand years ago. and what he learned: it requires a "light-side" Chosen One: the being "chosen" by the Force, to be the reincarnation of the original Light Side User. this is the ONLY way to imprison snoke, all over again.

so he sat there.  and he waited. for Rey.  he waited for the original Light Side User (aka: light side Chosen One) to reveal herself in the flesh, "re-incarnated" -- and when it is finally revealed to him, that the child he left on jakku IS the reincarnation of the original light side force user .. he is gob-smacked.




Now Ben has 'passed the test' and killed his father Han, this means Ben is finally Evil Enough, that Snoke can finally train him to become snoke's replacement host. snoke is vulnerable at this moment, because he is trapped in a broken body.. but..  if he transfers his consciousness into Kylo, then there will be no stopping him
--> Rey convinces Luke, that the time to act is NOW.

- one of them will advocate killing Kylo, to prevent him from becoming a Host Body to the Ultimate Evil (probably Rey);
- the other will advocate turning Kylo back to the light side, as per: ROTJ Vader Redemption Motif (probably Luke).

in the end: the spirit-of-Snoke WILL enter Kylo's body -- then Rey & "Snoke-in-Kylo's-body" will fight a passionate lightsaber duel, as she fights for Ben's Very Soul -- and it will 'seem like' all hope is lost, now that Snoke has succeeded in his Ultimate Goal -- now that snoke has found a new host, and taken FULL control of Kylo's body...

...but Kylo is not FULLY evil -- "there is still light in him"[Carrie Fisher] --> Rey WILL turn Kylo back to the light side.. but only AFTER snoke has ALREADY used Kylo as his New Host.. only AFTER snoke's own broken body is dead.

(ie: once Snoke has "won", and accomplished his Goal of using Kylo Ren as his New Host -- once it seems like "all hope is lost" -- then Kylo will 'mentally' defeat the 'spirit of snoke', from within: that small bit of 'light' inside of him, will take control -- thus destroying the 'spirit of snoke', FOR GOOD).

this will break the cycle of 'dark vs light' , and Rey's Spirit will no longer be reincarnated EITHER, over and over again, to oppose an immortal snoke.

(ie: once the spirit of the "Original Dark Side User" is finally dead , then the spirit of the "Original Light Side User" will no longer be reincarnated over & over, by the force: this will break the cycle of Dark vs Light, and unify The Force into a SINGLE entity (no more "dark side" vs. "light side" anymore -- only just "the force" from now on); the "human" bodies of Rey and Ben will be 'Free' to live their lives (to fall in love?); and everyone lives happily ever after).








I called it

That sounds pretty legit to me. It also helps tie in the weird immaculate conception of the prequels, which is nice. One less plot thread hanging in the breeze. Surely though Snoke wouldnt get defeated in VIII, that would be the fancy finale of IX.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: TheSaberCore on June 28, 2017, 05:36:02 AM
I do really like this idea, and I think parts of it may be true, but the teaser seems to focus on the more grey area of the Force, the balance between the dark side and the light. The whole idea of "balance in the Force" has never really made sense, so it would be cool if this new film would she'd some light on what "balance" is, and obviously Luke doesn't have the same views of the Jedi as he did before.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: WEDGE ANTILLES on June 28, 2017, 06:20:26 AM
That sounds pretty legit to me. It also helps tie in the weird immaculate conception of the prequels, which is nice. One less plot thread hanging in the breeze. Surely though Snoke wouldnt get defeated in VIII, that would be the fancy finale of IX.

yeah.  when I say "in the end..", I mean the end of the Trilogy.  :wink:

Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Scruffy Nerf Herder on June 28, 2017, 07:30:22 AM
If this has any merit to it I'm going to say this now...


xxx YOU FOR THE SPOILERS!!! LOL
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: WEDGE ANTILLES on June 28, 2017, 08:46:08 AM
this is just fan-theory speculation on my part.    :cool:   
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: EXAR KUN on June 28, 2017, 09:52:49 AM
Love it! Wedge you are the man.

This could save the series for me. As of what I've seen so far... I'm not behind the new story. This could save it. This feels '80's to me. TFA did not feel 'cool' like "'80's" style to me. And the best reason Luke is hiding I've heard so far.

Because to me, Luke hiding just isn't in his character. This could explain it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Scruffy Nerf Herder on June 28, 2017, 10:25:17 AM
Apparently the #2 issue of the Darth Vader comic book series could shed some light on why Luke went into hiding...something to do with a jedi vow to no longer use the Force.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: EXAR KUN on June 28, 2017, 02:10:33 PM
Apparently the #2 issue of the Darth Vader comic book series could shed some light on why Luke went into hiding...something to do with a jedi vow to no longer use the Force.

That's the worst thing I ever heard of. Why did we even bother watching Ep IV-VI? Why even bother learning the word 'Jedi'? Just to have it taken away later. These people went the wrong way.

It's like every super hero movie series features them losing their power at some point. The worst plot line ever. Might as well turn on a soap opera.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Bruce Wayne on June 28, 2017, 03:22:50 PM
Apparently the #2 issue of the Darth Vader comic book series could shed some light on why Luke went into hiding...something to do with a jedi vow to no longer use the Force.

That's the worst thing I ever heard of. Why did we even bother watching Ep IV-VI? Why even bother learning the word 'Jedi'? Just to have it taken away later. These people went the wrong way.

It's like every super hero movie series features them losing their power at some point. The worst plot line ever. Might as well turn on a soap opera.

Scruffy kind of misquoted the stuff from the Vader comic.  This is the panel of the comic that talks about what he meant:

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdownload.gamezone.com%2Fuploads%2Fimage%2Fdata%2F1218279%2FDarth_vader_comic_2.JPG&hash=fe20dc91fcb9ed09b49ad162c388c40afc763fb9)

It basically says that a Jedi who took the Barash Vow is disconnected from everything BUT the Force as an act of penance, so that means that Luke could be punishing himself for the massacre of his students by Kylo and the Knights of Ren.  This could also explain why he didn't interfere with anything in VII and even why Yoda or Obi-Wan didn't interfere with anything in the 19 years between ROTS and ANH.  But it's pretty much all theory at this point, so who knows.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: oswaldkefo on June 28, 2017, 07:28:29 PM
Apparently the #2 issue of the Darth Vader comic book series could shed some light on why Luke went into hiding...something to do with a jedi vow to no longer use the Force.

That's the worst thing I ever heard of. Why did we even bother watching Ep IV-VI? Why even bother learning the word 'Jedi'? Just to have it taken away later. These people went the wrong way.

It's like every super hero movie series features them losing their power at some point. The worst plot line ever. Might as well turn on a soap opera.

Scruffy kind of misquoted the stuff from the Vader comic.  This is the panel of the comic that talks about what he meant:

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdownload.gamezone.com%2Fuploads%2Fimage%2Fdata%2F1218279%2FDarth_vader_comic_2.JPG&hash=fe20dc91fcb9ed09b49ad162c388c40afc763fb9)

It basically says that a Jedi who took the Barash Vow is disconnected from everything BUT the Force as an act of penance, so that means that Luke could be punishing himself for the massacre of his students by Kylo and the Knights of Ren.  This could also explain why he didn't interfere with anything in VII and even why Yoda or Obi-Wan didn't interfere with anything in the 19 years between ROTS and ANH.  But it's pretty much all theory at this point, so who knows.

thanks for adding in the image. That is an interesting idea, and given how screwed up the order was in the prequels it would be cool if they explored the concept of jedi penance more in some fashion.
How often is the comic content referenced in the movies? If y'all hadnt made these posts I would have never even that  scene.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Scruffy Nerf Herder on June 29, 2017, 06:12:39 AM
LOL there ya go...I was paraphrasing what I read about the comic...but the point I was trying to make was it seems like they are driving the canon towards something a little less in your face compared to what Wedge is predicting.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: TheSaberCore on June 29, 2017, 06:43:14 AM
I feel like they're going to do SOMETHING with the unknown regions, as both the Thrawn and Aftermath books hint at it.

Also, I saw someone post this from some visual dictionary or something, that it says Snoke believes Kylo Ren to be the perfect embodiment of both dark and light ability. Could tie in to that theory.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Grigoris on June 29, 2017, 12:42:39 PM
Speaking of unknown regions, I wonder if SW will ever venture into the classic SciFi territory where a new species of aliens is discovered in outer limits of galaxy and now threatens entire galaxy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Obi_1 on June 29, 2017, 01:01:28 PM
I really hope NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! That would be very un-SW like. SW is a fantasy saga set in space. Not a science-fiction.

That said, actually they tried it in the sequel novels, with those insectiod aliens, that is when I stopped reading them. And I fervently hope that Disney will defer from placing the ultimate saga-killer bomb: to introduce an even  bigger/nastier/grander evil to boost the story. Because that's going to be an epic fail. I hope we will see a tale told again like in 1977 in that Galaxi far, far away...
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Greenie on June 29, 2017, 02:03:42 PM
Wedge Antilles, that theory should come with a spoiler alert. I'm pretty convinced you've just laid down the overarching story of the sequel trilogy.


 :jediblue: :sith:
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Psab Keel on July 01, 2017, 09:56:58 PM
It's an interesting theory, but it may be too esoteric for a Star Wars film.  Not entirely out of the realm of possibility, but if they went that route it would have to be simple enough to follow. 

I suspect that Luke realizes that perhaps the Jedi order and the Sith were both wrong in manipulating the Force for their own uses.  That one must live in harmony with the Force in order for the conflict to end once and for all.

It looks as though we may be seeing the Journal of the Whills, aka those books in the teaser trailer, which would presumably be the first teachings of the Jedi.  The Whills are a part of the film canon now with Rogue One.  My guess is that Luke sees too much of a risk in learning from them or using the knowledge from them to teach Rey and he destroys them.   This risk wouldn't stem from Luke's fear of being corrupted but that Rey might be tempted if to turn to the Dark Side if he teaches her too much.

Perhaps Kylo only killed Han to earn Snoke's trust and when he says to Vader's helmet that he "wants to finish what he started", what Kylo is referring to is vanquishing the Sith for good.  Or perhaps Kylo is trying to bring Vader back from the grave to learn how to destroy the Dark Side once and for all.  Something tells me that he isn't what we think he is and that he will die trying to redeem himself, or team up with Rey to kill Snoke and rid the galaxy of the Dark Side. 

Just my two cents.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: oswaldkefo on July 11, 2017, 09:39:26 AM
It's an interesting theory, but it may be too esoteric for a Star Wars film.  Not entirely out of the realm of possibility, but if they went that route it would have to be simple enough to follow. 

I suspect that Luke realizes that perhaps the Jedi order and the Sith were both wrong in manipulating the Force for their own uses.  That one must live in harmony with the Force in order for the conflict to end once and for all.

It looks as though we may be seeing the Journal of the Whills, aka those books in the teaser trailer, which would presumably be the first teachings of the Jedi.  The Whills are a part of the film canon now with Rogue One.  My guess is that Luke sees too much of a risk in learning from them or using the knowledge from them to teach Rey and he destroys them.   This risk wouldn't stem from Luke's fear of being corrupted but that Rey might be tempted if to turn to the Dark Side if he teaches her too much.

Perhaps Kylo only killed Han to earn Snoke's trust and when he says to Vader's helmet that he "wants to finish what he started", what Kylo is referring to is vanquishing the Sith for good.  Or perhaps Kylo is trying to bring Vader back from the grave to learn how to destroy the Dark Side once and for all.  Something tells me that he isn't what we think he is and that he will die trying to redeem himself, or team up with Rey to kill Snoke and rid the galaxy of the Dark Side. 

Just my two cents.

I absolutely expect a 4th quarter twist/conversion from Kylo. Some theroies suggest Rey would turn to the Dark Side and Ben would come back to the Light, and as interesting as that would be, Disney would not send their first lead-female force user to the Dark Side.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: TheSaberCore on August 11, 2017, 12:37:24 PM
This is a *SPOILER*, but I just saw the TLJ Luke Funko Pop for September has this spoiler, so I'm sure it'll probably be officially revealed by Disney sometime before the movie is released. But of course, read on at your own risk.


So Luke apparently has a necklace with a fragment of Darth Vader's lightsaber crystal and it plays a part in the plot. I find it very hard to believe a piece of Vader's saber could be recovered as it fell in the Death Star reactor that was destroyed moments later. Not only that, it kinda takes away some of the significance (for me anyway) of the Graflex, being a special Force relic of a bygone era. Perhaps it's a symbol of Luke's dark side?

Also, someone get me a Porg.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Scruffy Nerf Herder on August 18, 2017, 07:21:00 AM
There's also speculation that the kyber crystal is his and not vader's.

And there will be a Porg plushie released on Force Friday.
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: anakin2000 on August 28, 2017, 02:32:50 PM
There's also speculation that the kyber crystal is his and not vader's.

And there will be a Porg plushie released on Force Friday.

why would it be his? plus if it was wouldn't it be in his saber, not around his neck?
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: anakin2000 on August 28, 2017, 02:33:40 PM
also (not sure how many of you know) lucasfilm is planning to drop a trailer this thursday in advance of force friday
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Morannon on September 03, 2017, 04:36:40 PM
Better give us a trailer soon. Was really expecting one friday
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: anakin2000 on September 05, 2017, 07:28:49 PM
same, looks like a dumb comment now. they might not even drop a "trailer B" and just wait till october for the final, full trailer is what I've heard...

I hope thats wrong but you never know
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: WEDGE ANTILLES on September 19, 2017, 05:21:34 AM
the only porg I want , is 'medium rare' on a bed of mashed potatoes.

(they look so tasty).
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Obi_1 on September 19, 2017, 05:40:20 AM
The only new hint they allow us to glimpse were the merchandise figures they released on Force Friday. Based on the Snoke action figure he seems to be a very tall humanoid being, not quite full human, so I guess any connection to an existing, well known figure is false. As far as the credibility of action figures can be trusted, that is...

BTW, what is a porg?
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: coldvizjerei on September 19, 2017, 05:53:52 AM
Just gonna leave this here:

(https://i.imgur.com/VmrqJAo.png)
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: anakin2000 on September 19, 2017, 07:23:12 PM
the only porg I want , is 'medium rare' on a bed of mashed potatoes.

(they look so tasty).

I'm with you on that one 100%. found them cute at first glance but way too overhyped to the point where they're obnoxious and i wouldnt mind kylo messing some up in TLJ
Title: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi
Post by: Darth Chasm on September 26, 2017, 06:12:18 PM
Just gonna leave this here:

(https://i.imgur.com/VmrqJAo.png)

SWNN says it's true.. all of it.