FX-Sabers.com
FX-Sabers Discussion - Including a Gallery of custom sabers. => LED SABERS => Topic started by: scott on January 18, 2020, 05:45:32 PM
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Apologies if this has been addressed recently but not finding a ton on the forums around lighting quartz crystals. Web searches are trash as you get pages of healing crystal posts. I have done lots of CCs with the TCSS rgb crystals and most look good. I just gutted my TGS ANH in hilt led/prism...it was my second build over a year ago...doing it better with neo and CFX. I also wanted to do a quartz crystal so I picked up a bag online for a few bucks. Testing lighting it with a 5mm rgb and not loving the results. I dulled the exterior to trap more light. I don’t think it would make sense to try to bore out a spot to get the 5mm I to the crystal. Just looking for thoughts. I ordered some fiber optic to try out, but not sure what the tiny metal tubes Yoda uses to get them into his crystals is. Any tips that have worked for you would be appreciated! I will post a pic of my latest test, although it’s showing up way better I’m the picture than In person. One thought was to but the fiber against, or inside the cap on the led and run it up into a small hole in the crystal to have some light emanating from within the crystal.
6-CD487-C1-787-B-4-AA3-B5-E5-11-F0-D9-EE4-B72 ? imgbb.com (https://ibb.co/fF468K9)
C002044-D-3-D40-4974-9821-FB3-E8-C845-CBD ? imgbb.com (https://ibb.co/gFk3CJp)
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Okay,so, having had a look at your pictures, the "problem" there is that you've just got a really too well polished crystal, more than anything. It's okay, but it doesn't look that interesting. or natural.
One of my tried and tested go-tos to make a chunk of quartz look more interesting is frying a crystal, aka cracking it by thermal shock, as detailed in this thread from a while back: Just how do you go about "cracking" a crystal, anyway? (https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=52424.0) it produces plenty of nice internal cracks and fractures within the quartz that diffuse light very nicely.
Something I've found that works nicely is sanding the rear facing facets of your crystal down with some wet and dry sandpaper, and polishing the front facing facets. That way, when you light it, the front facets shine crystal clear, and the rear facets glow because they're diffused.
And if that fails, you can shape quartz by roughing it up with a dremmel-type tool and a diamond coated wheel.
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Thanks man...read through that entire experiment thread and disk hear of any exploded or even cracked crystals. I am going to give it a shot tomorrow.!
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Wear breathing protection when cutting or sanding. Working wet can help reduce dust.
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Something I've found that works nicely is sanding the rear facing facets of your crystal down with some wet and dry sandpaper, and polishing the front facing facets. That way, when you light it, the front facets shine crystal clear, and the rear facets glow because they're diffused.
And if that fails, you can shape quartz by roughing it up with a dremmel-type tool and a diamond coated wheel.
That is also the method I found for using large faceted gemstones instead of the more usual quartz. It 'ruins' them as 'gems' of course but fine for cheap synthetic gems from EvilBay eh? And kinda necessary with those since they are meant for cheap 'costume' jewelry so mostly VS or higher clarity which doesnt light up well in crystal chambers unless you rough up/ruin the back (side you wouldnt see, depending on chamber design). Sanding is ok with 'softer' stones but be aware that for large rubies and the many beautiful saber coloured sapphires (both corundum @ Mohs hardness 9) you will have to use diamond abrasives, care and a bit of Jedi patience. Using the more typical quartz point crystals in saber crystal chambers is indeed much easier and generally more practical.
Oh and yes indeed always use breathing and eye protection; crystal shard is a nice name for a soundboard lol but not something you want in an eye or lung eh?
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Wear breathing protection when cutting or sanding. Working wet can help reduce dust.
I would say this can't be overstated, but I failed to state it in my post, so...
Hey, Scott? Wear breathing and eye protection if you're going to try this. And keep your quartz wet. Watch a few youtube videos on shaping quartz, they'll explain things a lot better than I can.
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Appreciate all of the guidance. I did a little bit of shaping, and always have eye pro on, but didn’t think about the mask...will for sure do that going forward! Hopefully spending a few minutes on one stone didn’t do too much damage :rolleyes: !
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So I dropped the quartz in boiling water for a bit and quickly transferred to ice water...the resulting illumination is much better, and the crystal is still fully intact. Didn’t quite get the inclusions that I was hoping for, but I am happy enough with the result to not push my luck further. Thanks for the advice, and for the safety tips! The second shot is with my bench lights off, and looks better than it does in person. Certainly willing to trade a bit of brightness for a legit looking crystal...first of many so will continue to research what has worked for others and try lots more...retrofitting my star killer is next!
https://i.imgur.com/UvMQLhx.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/UvMQLhx.jpg)
https://i.imgur.com/TefPM8z.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/TefPM8z.jpg)
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Almost forgot...I drilled (with respirator this time) about 1/8” 1mm diameter hole in the base of the crystal and the rgb led to run the light into the crystal, and fit a1mm fiber optic into the two holes. It looks marginally better with, than without. Again, first time, so will improve from here. You can see the fiber optic in the first pic above.
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So I dropped the quartz in boiling water for a bit and quickly transferred to ice water...the resulting illumination is much better, and the crystal is still fully intact. Didn’t quite get the inclusions that I was hoping for, but I am happy enough with the result to not push my luck further. Thanks for the advice, and for the safety tips! The second shot is with my bench lights off, and looks better than it does in person. Certainly willing to trade a bit of brightness for a legit looking crystal...first of many so will continue to research what has worked for others and try lots more...retrofitting my star killer is next!
http://i.imgur.com/UvMQLhx.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/UvMQLhx.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/TefPM8z.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/TefPM8z.jpg)
Good job, man. :smiley: I found that cooking the crystal in an oven rather than boiling water had better results, but your mileage may vary. Still, first of many, you'll have plenty of tries to refine your technique.
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Thanks! How long and at what temp do you bake yours?
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As high as my oven goes (Gas mark 9, 245C/475F) for about 20 minutes.
Blanch in ice water.
Add salt and pepper to taste.
Serve on a bed of shaped brass and LEDs :wink:
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Wow...I will try that next time...I only did a few minutes in the boiling water. I am liking the results more and more. Think the clarity looks cool, and the few cracks that popped up are definitely catching and reflecting the light!
Thanks again!
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As high as my oven goes (Gas mark 9, 245C/475F) for about 20 minutes.
Blanch in ice water.
Add salt and pepper to taste.
Serve on a bed of shaped brass and LEDs :wink:
Garnish with a bit of aluminum filings!
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Sharing the final result...I am sure I will find lots of ways to make it better...primarily from the creativity of the community! This was a tear down and rebuild of my second saber over a year ago (scary, but around 20 builds ago!), TGS replica with a goth chassis. Swapped resin crystal for quartz and added some detail. Also switched from clamp act/aux to slide and red button switches (used Khal’s slide switch.) the chassis is fully removable and operational on its own. When I initially did it, I was happy that it turned on...found that with the switches in the clamp, the TGS clamp wouldn’t really lock things in without messing with the switches. Now it really locks down solid. Video of the CC below...criticism welcomed.
January 23, 2020 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/DkFTyhWykRU)
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That is quite nice imo...an actual crystal really makes a difference eh?
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Looking a lot better that it was :afro: it's amazing how just one little fracture gives it just that much more personality, huh?
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I think I actually managed 2 cracks, but yes, that made all the difference!
The acrylic crystals are certainly brighter, but the quartz looks less like a toy!
Thanks again for the guidance!
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No worries man, sharing info is what the forums are here for. Pay it forwards to the newbies down the line.
Also, one other tip for future builds: don't buy overly polished/hippie jewelry-grade quartz crystals if you can. They always look too nice and clean, and for some reason, a quartz crystal with flaws and fractures just looks more natural and gives a crystal chamber character. buy a couple of packs of raw, unpolished quartz crystals on ebay.
Unless, of course, you're going with an Old Canon explanation and want something that looks like a Synthetic lightsaber crystal. In which case, the clean look works really nicely for that, IMO.
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I picked up a load of them on Amazon and they are largely pretty raw and banged up. Being my first go at it, I actually purposely picked the clearest one, and sanded and polished it up! Funny that my instinct led me in the exact opposite direction from where I needed to be...always learning!
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Okay, then, I gotta give you some kudos for polishing that sucker up in the first place. That was a good enough job that it fooled me.
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Second try at getting good illumination in a quartz crystal. This one is a much crappier presentation because it’s a chassis I designed for a K4v2 and there was very little room to squeeze it in. The crystal and the spot I created to get the led into is better than the last. Second pic is in bright light at my bench, 3rd is in moderate ambient light. Happy with this one but still looking to do better!
Quartz Kyber Crystal - Album on Imgur (https://imgur.com/gallery/QZTX8ZM)
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Not bad, not bad. :smiley:
Also, I remembered something that I've tried a couple of times but never had the opportunity to use in a build. It's similar to diffusing the back facets of a crystal by sanding them, but instead, you wrap the back facets in aluminised foil tape. It's an old movie propmaster trick to make cheap plastic gems shine like the real thing on screen, and it works rather well when the gem in question has its own illumination. I'll let a former Mythbuster demonstrate: One Day Builds: Customizing Adam's Hero Sword - YouTube (https://youtu.be/O1--0DLJv-8?t=940)
The only catch there is that the foil blocks out the light, so it casts some odd shadows inside the chamber. But, if you've got a small chamber where the rear side of it doesn't show, it's a handy trick to have up your sleeve.
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I actually put foil tape on the top of the last one to redirect some of the passthru back into the crystal. One thing I was thinking about was small (very small) mirrors inside the chamber, for this one, maybe at the point since that just rests on a hard surface.
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I did try something similar on my current WIP. I didn't have much hilt space for the crystal chamber, so it's very much a window with a quartz crystal right behind it. no details, no ornamentation, there was barely any space for the crystal. I thought it might be a good idea to coat the walls of the chamber in aluminised foil tape and polish that up to a mirror shine.
Didn't work. by that, I mean the aluminium foil polished up no problem, but the shiny mirrored walls made the walls glow so much you could barely see the crystal with the naked eye. On camera, it was like having another small lightsaber blade inside the saber.
your mileage may vary, of course, but I'm avoiding doing that in the future.
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I've done the aluminum tape on top of the crystal thing as well. It does help with light that night otherwise be absorbed and reflected in ways that aren't helpful or are undesirable.
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All good ideas to try...I was worried that the little wrinkles in the foil tape would show up poorly if I put it in the sides of the chamber, but it did work well to reflect back from the top where it wasn’t visible when looking directly at the chassis. Having fun trying to get this right. Then I see pictures of Yoda’s CC and shake my head!
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I promise I won’t keep this thread active for every new build, but very happy with how this quartz CC lights up. Thanks again for the tips! This is in a Korbanth K4, custom chassis that I printed.
Quartz Crystal Chamber - Album on Imgur (https://imgur.com/gallery/Bzl0Zee)
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okay, so, you've got lighting the crystal more or less down. Kudos.
...now, I feel I must go off topic and give unasked for 3D printing advice. Drop your layer height to 0.1mm, and search your slicing software for a Z-seam hiding option. Active cooling on (if you've got it)
If you can't do that, design your chassis slightly undersize, print it, and paint with epoxy (preferably something with a longer cure time that the 5min glue, but that'll do in a pinch) and sand down carefully until you've got a flat surface. that'll hide your print lines and give you a flat surface to paint/rub'n'buff to your heart's content, with the added bonus of making your chassis stronger.
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Yep, I have done some mint ones like that. This was a first go at this hilt, and with the back and forth and reprints, I generally do faster prints and adjustments. Now that I have a model that I know works, finer detail and finish the next time I use it.
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So while I previously said that I wouldn’t keep hitting the same thread, I felt it appropriate. If the vets or mods feel differently, LMk and I will proceed as directed in the future.
The quest to get great lighted quartz CCs continues...working towards getting good enough to make a metal masters type build worth while.
Guidance from the crew here has been great...Thunder guy didn’t like my obvious layers last time...since then I have gone resin which is amazing! This is an RGB on a Proffie using Fernandos amazing CC styles..no video yet, but rainbow blade and CC is a pretty sick crowd pleaser! As always, constructive criticism is always appreciated.
SK Rogue Crystal Chamber - Album on Imgur (https://imgur.com/gallery/OEjInYs)
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Sorry buddy, as a makerspace director, I'm constantly giving people 3D printing advice, to the point where it's hard to turn off in my off time. My bad.
The new CC looks great, you're getting to be quite excellent at them.
Never could work out resin printing, myself, and our space had issues with storing printing resins (too many carcinogens for our insurance.)Out of curiosity, how does resin hold up, strength wise, compared to FDM?
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All good Thunder....it was well received feedback at the time...had been singularly focused on the crystal and led...the chassis was an afterthought and was a drag on the final product.
Resin seems to be stronger, especially in that there are net the weak points between layers. It is certainly open to cracking, but overall, much more precise to the model and holds up well. I can print very solid pixel pcb holders with pin guards that I want able to do as reliably in PLA. I do print in a room that is constantly vented, and given the state of the world, masks are everywhere, so you can be relatively safe I guess. I’m sure some will disagree.