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Author Topic: Padmè's death  (Read 10509 times)

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Offline Lord Bane

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Re: Padmè's death
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2015, 01:53:20 PM »
Ahhhh, this explains everything. I wonder if George planned that in the movie or did that just happen as a coincidence? At any rate, I like the new light that has been shed on this puzzling question for years. I'm sold.

Palpatine is GENIUS!!!!

Offline XsaberX

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Re: Padmè's death
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2015, 02:52:31 PM »
but padme isn't 'more' connected to the living force,  compared to 'all life'....    I mean, if anakin was reaching into the force for strength, he would borrow it from 'all life' then; not from padme alone.

if we are to believe that anakin drained 'living force' from padme, thus killing her.. then this would have to be, by virtue of his connection to padme; not padme's connection to the living force -- because her connection to the living force is really just the same as everybody else -- why didn't anakin drain 'living force' from everybody else?


I think it's better to just keep it simple:
- Sidious killed Padme with/through the Force
- Sidious kept Anakin alive with/through the Force







« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 03:08:24 PM by XsaberX »

Offline cvsickle

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Re: Padmè's death
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2015, 09:13:06 PM »
I think it's better to just keep it simple:
- Sidious killed Padme with/through the Force
- Sidious kept Anakin alive with/through the Force

I keep it simpler, I'm glad George Lucas isn't doing star wars anymore, because he almost killed star wars with this movie.

I know some of you probably disagree, but the pun was too good to pass up :)

Offline Lord Bane

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Re: Padmè's death
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2015, 02:59:46 PM »
He didn't almost kill ROTS. It was a very good movie. Was there bad acting? Of course, did he leave things out that should have been explained more? YES, could he have made it better? Definitely. There are plenty of goof up's in the OT as well, excluding ESB of course because to me that was flawless. The OT had plenty of cheesy moments and a little campy acting but all in all I still love them.
If it wasn't for George Lucas, I wouldn't be here writing this and you wouldn't be reading it. Lol!
« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 03:01:29 PM by Lord Bane »

Offline WEDGE ANTILLES

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Re: Padmè's death
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2015, 03:51:18 PM »
I'm kind of disappointed that things turned out the way they did.  GL should have been more willing to hand the reigns over to other people.  for example, I was watching the bonus features on the Prometheus disc and it struck me that Ridley Scott -as-director was really just a sounding board for other people's ideas. he would listen to people's ideas and ask questions from the POV of a devil's advocate trying to pick holes in them,  only to arrive at a further idea that held water. (well more water anyways).  he's very much a supervising influence, rather than a purely creative one, directing a script that he never wrote himself.  he seemed like Jean Luc Picard in command of, of a team of professionals who didn't NEED to be micro-managed.  I think this is why ESB was so great.  GL handed his ideas off to a proper screenwriter and gave the directing duties to someone with a creative vision, of his own, for how he wanted the movie to turn out.  he didn'y micro-manage everything to the finest detail.  the PT by contrast saw him write the whole thing himself, direct it all himself, dictate designs for creatures and weapons, etc etc.. there are FAR more talented people out there who can do this kind of thing.. and GL could have just supervised it all like a Ridley Scott production. (like Jean Luc Picard).:P

in the end, he tried to be a jack of all trades (writer/director/producer) and a master of none.  and when people didn't like (or appreciate) his efforts, he took it personally. now he's COMPLETE:Y turned his back on it and will NEVER be allowed to have any kind of influence ever again.  that's a far cry from Jean Luc Picard. 

he should have kept the company.  he shouldn't have sold it to the evil empire of the magic mouse.  he should have hired JJ Abrams for AOTC (like he hired Irvin Kershner for ESB) -- he should have trusted the artists around him to do their jobs without so much micro-managing on his part.  then he would still have influence. 


I would prefer to have GL at the head of the company, managing from a distance, with JJ Abrams and KAsdan as writers, and JJ Abrams directing.. etc etc.. he should never have backed himself into this corner.  "All OR Nothing" is no way to live.  :P  in a way I feel sorry for the guy. 
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Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned, and Luke doesn't get married..."
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Offline Onli-Won Kanomi

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Re: Padmè's death
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2015, 02:05:08 AM »
I'm kind of disappointed that things turned out the way they did.  GL should have been more willing to hand the reigns over to other people.  for example, I was watching the bonus features on the Prometheus disc and it struck me that Ridley Scott -as-director was really just a sounding board for other people's ideas. he would listen to people's ideas and ask questions from the POV of a devil's advocate trying to pick holes in them,  only to arrive at a further idea that held water. (well more water anyways).  he's very much a supervising influence, rather than a purely creative one, directing a script that he never wrote himself.  he seemed like Jean Luc Picard in command of, of a team of professionals who didn't NEED to be micro-managed.  I think this is why ESB was so great.  GL handed his ideas off to a proper screenwriter and gave the directing duties to someone with a creative vision, of his own, for how he wanted the movie to turn out.  he didn'y micro-manage everything to the finest detail.  the PT by contrast saw him write the whole thing himself, direct it all himself, dictate designs for creatures and weapons, etc etc.. there are FAR more talented people out there who can do this kind of thing.. and GL could have just supervised it all like a Ridley Scott production. (like Jean Luc Picard).:P

in the end, he tried to be a jack of all trades (writer/director/producer) and a master of none.  and when people didn't like (or appreciate) his efforts, he took it personally. now he's COMPLETE:Y turned his back on it and will NEVER be allowed to have any kind of influence ever again.  that's a far cry from Jean Luc Picard. 

he should have kept the company.  he shouldn't have sold it to the evil empire of the magic mouse.  he should have hired JJ Abrams for AOTC (like he hired Irvin Kershner for ESB) -- he should have trusted the artists around him to do their jobs without so much micro-managing on his part.  then he would still have influence. 


I would prefer to have GL at the head of the company, managing from a distance, with JJ Abrams and KAsdan as writers, and JJ Abrams directing.. etc etc.. he should never have backed himself into this corner.  "All OR Nothing" is no way to live.  :P  in a way I feel sorry for the guy.

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I'm not sure about JJ and the Evil Mouse's Ep.VII TFA after the disappointments of ST Into Dumbness and the Stupidsaber [tm] though I'll hope for the best and wait and see, but yeah definitely JJ Abrams would still have been on top of his game for AOTC and besides then he might have gone on to do a better job on ROTS instead of messing up Lost [I still can't stand that he pulled a Purgatory after specifically telling fans years earlier the Island WASN'T - holding back true plans for purposes of a surprise-ending is ok but outright lying to fans for years where a franchise is going then cheap-shotting the obvious answer everyone expected from the first season but was repeatedly told would be something better is not respectful of the artist-audience relationship in my book].

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Offline Psab Keel

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Re: Padmè's death
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2015, 12:48:55 PM »
I think George Lucas made the right move in selling his company.  While I agree wholeheartedly with the fact that the fans and critics have been inexcusably harsh towards him, I still think he is creatively fairly stubborn when it comes to relenting control and had he not sold Lucasfilm, he would have never learned to let go of things.  I'm honestly more interested in seeing if he will go back to making experimental films like THX-1138, which is really indicative of his visionary genius.  I hope he makes those kinds of films and releases them in theaters. 

I mean let's be honest, if Lucas had total creative control over the original trilogy, we would have gotten the prequels.  One of the main reasons the first three became so iconic was because of the collaborative nature of those films.  Lucas had a vision, but was humble enough as a director to trust that the work of the people under him would deliver.  Not to mention the fact that he has admitted time and again that he is not fond of writing.  It all comes down to the script in the end.  If the story is flawed, all the effects and celebrity power can't save a bad script.

While I think that this article makes for an interesting theory I don't think Lucas really thought the script through that deeply.  He intentionally keeps things vague so that audiences can project their own interpretations into the story.  Which in and of itself is not a bad thing but what makes Star Wars so appealing is the fact that good and evil are so clearly defined.  While on the surface I can applaud Lucas' attempt to bring ambiguity into the Star Wars mythos, I find that the story he was telling didn't deepen the characters we already knew and that we really couldn't empathize with any of them, which was the whole point of making the new trilogy in the first place.  He introduced too many half brewed themes rather than having one strong central theme.  It's the difference between amateur writing and great writing. 

As for JJ Abrams I am optimistic that he can make a reasonably entertaining Star Wars film.  I think some of his work is overrated but I really enjoyed what he did with the Star Trek franchise, despite the outcry of fan criticism.  I think what he has going for him is the ability to collaborate and really try and give some heart to his characters.  A director can have a vision but a truly great director has the ability to take constructive criticism and work to make the best possible film they can.  Lucas is such an icon that I think those working for him were probably too afraid to question his decisions.  Especially the employees who spent their childhood's dreaming of working for the guy!  Not that Lucas is a tyrant by any means, far from it, but the man created a modern myth!  Who is going to question THAT guy if he was your boss?

Ultimately most die hard fans (myself included) have VERY strong opinions on these matters.  I think the best thing about Star Wars is that it inspires us to use our imaginations.  So I say, let it inspire us to come up with our OWN stories.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 01:04:08 PM by Psab Keel »

Offline Onli-Won Kanomi

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Re: Padmè's death
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2015, 03:10:23 PM »
There was already "ambiguity" to the SW universe before Lucas finished the Prequel Trilogy and it wasn't Lucas who wrote it [though he allowed it, to ca$h in on EU fans].

Between Timothy Zahn's trilogy, the multiple authored NJO Vong cycle [when Han Solo wishes for a Death Star you should know right then the SW franchise is ultimately heading for a moral inversion], Drew Karpashyn's KOTOR and Bane novels that Palpatine knew from Canderous via Revan via Bane and Plagueis that the Vong invasion was coming and Outbound Flight that connects Grand Admiral Thrawn and the immediate pre-Prequel events to Palpatines long game against the Vong its already been made pretty 'morally ambiguous' that Palpatine/Sidious might wink-wink nudge-nudge really be the 'good guy' militarizing the SW Galaxy and building Death Stars to save it with 'necessary evil for the greater good' against a greater threat that the 'bad guy' Rebels interfered with at the later cost of trillions of innocent Galactic lives needlessly lost [and the destruction of many more worlds than Alderaan]. This was all done by other writers than Lucas before he completed his 'vision' of the Prequels and so not much wonder GL hates the EU - the EU turned SW's kiddy-simple morality-play upside down which happens when adult intellects play with what a juvenile mind like Lucas' considers his private soapbox for childish [and child-safe read dumbed-down for babies and morons i.e. Greedo shot first retcon] fairy tales with a space opera skin overlaid.

Now he's free of SW and what does he do...a tale with faeries. OK he's using Shakespeare instead of Campbellizing Flash Gordon and Kurosawa this time so he gets a 'high culture pass' for that maybe but it kinda shows what level his mind is really at; childish 'fantasy' - maybe he'll make "Willow II" next...that's probably more his speed anyway. Not that I'd mind a Willow sequel but legendary X-Men scribe Chris Claremont has already done the 'adult Elora Danan' story in novels but hey GL has already shown he likes to 'diss' better writers than him like Claremont as he did with Zahn, Karpashyn and others he dissed retconning the entire EU out of canon.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 04:13:09 PM by Onli-Won Kanomi »
To DREAM the IMPOSSIBLE DREAM. To FIGHT the unbeatable foe. To BEAR with unbearable sorrow. To RUN where the brave dare not go. To RIGHT the unrightable wrong. To LOVE, PURE AND CHASTE, FROM AFAR [-sigh-]. To TRY, when your arms are too weary; to REACH the unreachable Star!... This is my Quest; To follow that Star, no matter how hopeless, no matter how far...

Offline Psab Keel

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Re: Padmè's death
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2015, 06:47:56 PM »
I haven' t read any of the EU that you mentioned other than Zahn's Thrawn trilogy.  I'm sure whoever came up with the Palpatine is really trying to save the galaxy plot was merely trying to give some logical cohesion to the knotted ball of yarn that was the EU.  An interesting premise, but ultimately a convoluted mess with regards to his very clear motivations in the OT which was to destroy any who opposed him. 

I'm fine with an intricate plot, but lately it seems that many writers are more concerned with having a plot so complicated so as to hide the fact that they have no real theme or characters to support it.  It comes across as an attempt to look clever when they really aren't.  I can't say that the EU books you mention are that way because I haven't read them but sadly a lot of movies, television and books are that way.  For example, the tv show Lost started off strong but then kept introducing mystery after mystery without the need to really explain them.  Not to mention the fact that it was recently revealed that one of the writer's admitted that they were intentionally introducing new ideas in order to shock the audience with absolutely no intention of ever explaining it.  Seems like a lousy way to insult the intelligence of your viewership and acknowledge your lack of talent.

When it comes to plot, simple does not have to mean dumb, it just means that the most successful plots tend to be easy to follow.  And when it comes to story twists, the set up is only as good as the payoff, otherwise it'll only come across as cheap.

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« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 07:37:29 PM by Psab Keel »

Offline ARJedi

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Re: Padmè's death
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2015, 06:44:21 PM »
Dang that's deep I never thought of her death that way

Offline Drewbacca

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Re: Padmè's death
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2015, 06:50:02 PM »
That is a really good find and a good read for any SW fan to consider. I actually like that version more instead of a the gawdy broken-heart. I still can't grasp HOW Sidious would manage to drain/kill Padme from that distance. If that's the case, Sidious could just kill anyone at anytime he wanted! Someone reply and explain this to me? Thanks for sharing!
« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 06:54:40 PM by Drewbacca »
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Offline anakin2000

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Re: Padmè's death
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2015, 06:54:02 PM »
That is a really good find and a good read for any SW fan to consider. I actually like that version more instead of a the gawdy broken-heart. I still can't grasp HOW Sidious would manage to drain/kill Padme from that distance. If that's the case, Sidious could just kill anyone at anytime he wanted! Someone reply and explain this to me? Thanks for sharing!

Because that's just how powerful he is. He can keep people from dying and kill them. He didn't do it much because there was no one to do it to. Sure, you could say the Jedi, but he needed them for his overthrow of them (the Jedi) to look at least somewhat legitamate. He mostly likely drained Padme's life and gave it to Anakin. How else would he know about her death SECONDS after it happened from halfway across the galaxy?

Offline Greenie

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Re: Padmè's death
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2015, 12:38:15 PM »
'We' are clearly going way too deep when the whole trilogy is way too shallow. Padme died cos GL needed her to, so he could end with the twins being separated, all wrapped up nicely :mad: It contradicts the originals, proving that GL didn't care about the story just flogging his 'new technology' and merchandise under the guise of Star Wars. He has even been quoted as saying 'I make movies for kids, it's not my fault adults like them'. Those adults clearly need more from the prequels than he delivered and that is because they fell in love with the originals when they were children and 'we' can never have that time again :cry:

Offline WEDGE ANTILLES

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Re: Padmè's death
« Reply #28 on: December 26, 2015, 03:25:15 PM »
jedi's aren't supposed to fall in love. it can be dangerous.

this theory is trying to sell the idea that she dies from a force-connection to a jedi -- aka: love -- aka: she died of a broken heart.

not because because palpatine willfully sucked the life out of her and fed it to anakin -- but because her 'bond of love' inadvertently sucked the life out of her, and fed into anakin.

(like all one-sided marriages -- they suck the life right out of you -- *sigh* -- GL was not a fan of 'marriage' when he wrote this).


 

on repeated viewings I think he's onto something -- I think she died because she shared a bond of love with a "force user" who was, himself, dying -- she died from a (dangerous) heart-to-heart force-bond with a dying jedi (anakin) -- this bond-of-love inadvertently transferred "force-power" out of her, and into him -- or -- from her own POV -- she died of a broken heart.


(did palpatine know this would happen , if they fell in love? yes. did he control it ? no.)
« Last Edit: December 26, 2015, 03:30:59 PM by WEDGE ANTILLES »
"The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story.
Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned, and Luke doesn't get married..."
- George Lucas

 

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