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Author Topic: 3 Watt Single Dice Purple LED no UV safe for sabers!!!  (Read 10227 times)

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Offline LUMINARA UNDULI

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Re: 3 Watt Single Dice Purple LED no UV safe for sabers!!!
« Reply #45 on: August 24, 2011, 12:57:02 PM »
@ARKM: I would say that, again, there is going to be a difference of opinion on this.  I guess, at the end of the day, you can arrive at the exact shade of purple you want through color mixing and those RGB LEDs are readily available on the market.  They are no more dangerous than any LED we already use.  

These UVA LEDs have an added element of risk.  How much or little remains to be seen.  If there was no other option, I think I would feel more inclined to explore filtering materials, etc.  You all know I love purple :D.  But, as it stands, I can't really justify the added risk and do not want to spend the time to figure out a filtering solution to minimize that risk.  In addition, an actual purple from a mixed RGB is also brighter (and purpler) apples to apples due to how our eyes perceive light.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2011, 01:04:16 PM by LUMINARA UNDULI »



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Offline Onli-Won Kanomi

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Re: 3 Watt Single Dice Purple LED no UV safe for sabers!!!
« Reply #46 on: August 24, 2011, 01:25:24 PM »
Fascinating about the 'absence of green'. Thanks for that explanation.

There's also a matter of intended use - I might be comfortable assuming certain risks for myself in a DIY build for personal use that I might not feel comfortable putting in a build for sale or even as a gift to someone else, especially if I thought they might re-gift it to a child...legal liability aside nobody wants to put children at any risk eh? So a DIYer and a 'pro' smith may have differing fair points of view on this.

If the builders of these can 'nudge' the wavelengths a wee bit further from the UV maybe we'd all be able to agree on 'safety' but right now these are so close to the line that everyone should make their own best judgment for their own needs...personally I hope they can get to the 420nm dominant range with nothing spilling under 405...a minimum 405-430nm deep purple 5W LED would be AWESOME imo.

To DREAM the IMPOSSIBLE DREAM. To FIGHT the unbeatable foe. To BEAR with unbearable sorrow. To RUN where the brave dare not go. To RIGHT the unrightable wrong. To LOVE, PURE AND CHASTE, FROM AFAR [-sigh-]. To TRY, when your arms are too weary; to REACH the unreachable Star!... This is my Quest; To follow that Star, no matter how hopeless, no matter how far...

Offline Sunrider

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Re: 3 Watt Single Dice Purple LED no UV safe for sabers!!!
« Reply #47 on: August 24, 2011, 02:16:29 PM »
 I'm not saying everyone should want to use these, but here's how I look at it.

 We know it's extremely difficult to light a blade enough to compete with direct sunlight right.

Here is the full spectrum emitted from the sun.




There is a lot of UVA and the worse UVB in there. So until you get up to power levels much greater than 5w a saber blade will be much less damaging than a sunny day.

Offline LUMINARA UNDULI

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Re: 3 Watt Single Dice Purple LED no UV safe for sabers!!!
« Reply #48 on: August 24, 2011, 02:36:42 PM »
I am really failing to see how this is relevant Sunrider.

What I would like to know, is this LED safe?  Not have a discussion as to how much sunlight causes skin cancer ;).

You can say you "think so" but that doesn't help me.  Can it damage someone's eyes over the short or longterm?  That creates a liability for those of us that sell sabers.  Far as I can tell, you are not an expert in that field.  Neither am I.  You have to be careful what you recommend.  You never know who might take your words as gospel ;).

Until someone who is an expert can tell me it is safe, I believe we already have enough risk with our current set ups without adding another into the mix. 

Especially when it is not necessary since a superior alternative in terms of hue and brightness already exists ;).



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Offline Onli-Won Kanomi

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Re: 3 Watt Single Dice Purple LED no UV safe for sabers!!!
« Reply #49 on: August 24, 2011, 02:40:57 PM »
Thats certainly true with regards to skin exposure but I think we are probably more concerned with eye damage than skin damage and no one looks at the sun...we look right AT our saber blades [well, most of us do, with your phlatlight sabers maybe you don't lol] which are mostly being lit by extremely tightly focusing optics - admittedly we all know and pros caution customers against looking directly down the bladeholder at the LED but unless we found a blade diffuser film that was a darn good UV screen I'm not sure if a blade would offer much or any UV protection to our eyes when we look at it as we do, so I'm not sure the comparison with suntan/sunburn risk is fair.
To DREAM the IMPOSSIBLE DREAM. To FIGHT the unbeatable foe. To BEAR with unbearable sorrow. To RUN where the brave dare not go. To RIGHT the unrightable wrong. To LOVE, PURE AND CHASTE, FROM AFAR [-sigh-]. To TRY, when your arms are too weary; to REACH the unreachable Star!... This is my Quest; To follow that Star, no matter how hopeless, no matter how far...

Offline Sunrider

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Re: 3 Watt Single Dice Purple LED no UV safe for sabers!!!
« Reply #50 on: August 24, 2011, 05:08:03 PM »
I am really failing to see how this is relevant Sunrider.

What I would like to know, is this LED safe?  Not have a discussion as to how much sunlight causes skin cancer ;).

You can say you "think so" but that doesn't help me.  Can it damage someone's eyes over the short or longterm?  That creates a liability for those of us that sell sabers.  Far as I can tell, you are not an expert in that field.  Neither am I.  You have to be careful what you recommend.  You never know who might take your words as gospel ;).

Until someone who is an expert can tell me it is safe, I believe we already have enough risk with our current set ups without adding another into the mix. 

Especially when it is not necessary since a superior alternative in terms of hue and brightness already exists ;).

 I would say the comparison is relevant because this radiation enters our eyes everyday. You don't need to look right at the sun, the light is reflected off all sorts of things. The light levels are more than comparable to a saber blade.

 As far as experts, they cant agree on anything and it changes constantly. Some say purple and blue light is bad period and others say but not for humans.  Ive used a lot of black lights and UV leds over the years and can still see.  :D

 I myself would still use the higher power RGBs for purple just because they are brighter.  ;)  And in our sue happy nation I can see why you would hesitate to use a 400nm led. I for my own saber wouldn't be afraid of a led that runs over 400nm simply because most resources put this wavelength beyond the danger zone.
 
 The dangerous thing about light is how concentrated it is. This is where people have to be really careful with light. A led and lens can be harmful but inside a blade with diffuser lumen levels drop 20x over at the surface of the blade. Like a laser can burn your eye the reflection on the wall wont.

Offline Amptrooper

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Re: 3 Watt Single Dice Purple LED no UV safe for sabers!!!
« Reply #51 on: August 24, 2011, 07:21:40 PM »
Well, you see there are facts about this. I mean just look it up on Wiki. This LED is as ARKM said is less dangerous then walking outside.
Here is something, so I went to Kroger's today. In the front right were the carts are is a UV florescent twin bulbs. They are rated MUCH higher well, lower, you know what I mean in the spectrum yet they are hitting us with it every time we walk by!
 So, here is the Wiki we all have been talking about so much. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet
 I think this PROVES that this LED is as safe as any green or white/clear led.
Heck, if you look down at the bottom there are even some health benefits to it!

Now with this Wiki the question does not become about the nm rating of this LED. It is more about would having a saber with a blade (that DOES defuse the light a bit) would that cause you to have an over exposure of UV? That is the question on all UV 365 and over. How much are you going to be around it. Well, Since most sabers don't even make it 1 hour continuously  and usually we only turn them on for a bit, swing them around or duel with them for 10 or 15 minutes at a time I can't see how you would get over exposure to something that is barely even in the UV range.

Yes, as Vader said, there is always a risk when you are dealing high power LEDs and when you put a viewing angle of 8% or less you actually according to Wiki make a Class 2 laser! (I didn't know that) Kind of neat really! I mostly use 8% lenses. Depends  on the color. But 8 seams the best for most.

This has really been a fun and interesting topic. 
Like I was saying this company IS and as he just told me they do have a 5 watt Purple and it is even more past the 400nm mark. I personally can't wait to get it. He said it will be a while but I'll be the first to receive it and I'll get it posted as soon as I do! Very excited about it. Not sure when it is coming though. he kind of made it feel like don't get to excited yet. Going to be a while. You see, this is a real company. They have all kinds of testing and regulations they have to pass before they can get it out to what he terms "Real World Testers". So, this company is not going to hand over an LED to me knowing what I am doing with them that they think will be dangerous or cause us to have an over exposure to UV. That would put their company at risk and i know from conversations with him that they are not in the business of risking their business. He is very excited about working with me for future sales and thinks the lightsaber are really cool and he wants one in the future! Asked if he could use it as an example for his company, I told him I would not say yes or no but I sent him a link to all the drama LFL gave that one laser that looks like a saber. Can't remember the name right now.

So, with all that and all the tests I have done and the tests and regulations passed from this company and that I am now approved to sell the 3 watts with my build but he does not want me to just sell the LED. The only reason I am not sharing the company name is because I am a fully approved tester. I have kept this from everyone but my immediate family because they have VERY strict rules about testers and I have signed legal documents. Every thing I am saying has been approved. Course I am a talker so, I add a lot of chit chat in there  ::)  ;D . Also, some of the things I have been saying are in reaction to my contact as he is watching this topic. I have been answering a lot of his questions about sabers too! LOL!  A lot of "Can you do this?" Funny! We are making a saber geek out of him!!! LOL!  Doesn't take much once you really start seeing all we do with these things.

So, for those that are not worried about UV over exposure (which is the real concern/question) these LEDs will be available in my builds. It may take a little longer to get it in but worth the wait I think! More will be on my Mining Colony spot soon. Going to do a full redo of that spot in the next month.  I am REALLY hoping to have the 5 watter by then but probably not. But I can hope!  ;)  I personally am really excited about these LEDs and about the willingness of said company to work with us! Even to the point of putting a different lens on the 5 watt!!!! Thanks, to Luminara for that suggestion!
  ;) 8)

Offline Onli-Won Kanomi

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Re: 3 Watt Single Dice Purple LED no UV safe for sabers!!!
« Reply #52 on: August 24, 2011, 08:39:40 PM »


Like I was saying this company IS and as he just told me they do have a 5 watt Purple and it is even more past the 400nm mark. I personally can't wait to get it. He said it will be a while but I'll be the first to receive it and I'll get it posted as soon as I do!...

...He is very excited about working with me for future sales and thinks the lightsaber are really cool and he wants one in the future!...

We are making a saber geek out of him!!! LOL!  Doesn't take much once you really start seeing all we do with these things.

So, for those that are not worried about UV over exposure (which is the real concern/question) these LEDs will be available in my builds. It may take a little longer to get it in but worth the wait I think! More will be on my Mining Colony spot soon. Going to do a full redo of that spot in the next month.  I am REALLY hoping to have the 5 watter by then but probably not. But I can hope!  ;)  I personally am really excited about these LEDs and about the willingness of said company to work with us! Even to the point of putting a different lens on the 5 watt!!!! Thanks, to Luminara for that suggestion!
  ;) 8)

That is great news! I look forward to seeing your review on that even higher wavelength one when it comes...perhaps it will be exactly what we are all hoping for. :D Its only fair you get first shot at these when they are ready for testing and we all realize a good true purple hi power LED isn't easy technically so if it takes awhile well thats R&D eh? In the meantime its good that he thinks our "noisy flashlights" ;-) are cool and maybe you could send him some links to some of the great spinning and saberplay vids out there by NYJ, Novastar, Caine etc that show exactly what we DO with them and he'll see that there is great potential for fun and growth for our hobby...I know if I wasn't a saberfan already those great vids would make me one.

An LED company that participates in our hobby and thus really understands what we do and need and would work with us would be a great benefit to our hobby's growth and I think we could benefit theirs so best of luck with this.
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Offline Amptrooper

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Re: 3 Watt Single Dice Purple LED no UV safe for sabers!!!
« Reply #53 on: August 24, 2011, 08:59:48 PM »
Quote
maybe you could send him some links to some of the great spinning and saberplay vids out there by NYJ, Novastar, Caine etc that show exactly what we DO with them and he'll see that there is great potential for fun and growth for our hobby...I know if I wasn't a saberfan already those great vids would make me one.

Well now he will be asking for them!! LOL! Yeah, I didn't think of that. I know he will get a big kick out of it. I would guess that he will join here before long. He may not tell you who he is but HE SHOULD JOIN!!!!! HINT HINT!!!   ;)   ;D

Yeah, it is great that they like what we do enough to want to be a part of it. I am really excited about the future with them and I hope that they plan on full opening their doors to us. Right now they are a direct company only. Meaning you have to have hired them persay. I am not exactly sure what you call that. I am sure he will correct me!

Offline LUMINARA UNDULI

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Re: 3 Watt Single Dice Purple LED no UV safe for sabers!!!
« Reply #54 on: August 24, 2011, 10:11:19 PM »
While I would not use these in our builds, I commend you for your efforts.  Without people to push the hobby forward, where would we be?  I hope they work out for you, but either way, good on you for trying new ideas!



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Offline Darth Matth

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Re: 3 Watt Single Dice Purple LED no UV safe for sabers!!!
« Reply #55 on: August 29, 2011, 04:16:27 AM »
I'm not playing that much with my sabers, and if I do, not that long.
If that 5W Purple LED is much brighter than a RGB Purplemix, I would go for this 5W LED.
That is my choice of course.

Maybe you make sabers with the 5W LED and let people sign a disclaimer or something, to set you free from lawissues.

I for one are very interrested to see some results with this 5W Purple LED.
Also a comparison to a RGB Purple mixed LED.

If the brightness will be the same,... than you'll end up with a saber that:
- Or when the batteries goes empty, the 5W Purple saber goes more UV sensitive.
- Or when the batteries goes empty, the RGB Mixed Purple saber goes more Redish, which I find a cool effect.
This way you see when you have to charge the saber again.
If the brightness is the same, I'll go for the RGBmix.

Again if the 5W Purple is much brighter, I absolutelly will go for it.
But hey,... I play with lasers too.
Where can I sign? :D :D :D
« Last Edit: August 29, 2011, 04:21:06 AM by Darth Matth »



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