FX-Sabers.com
FX-Sabers Discussion - Including a Gallery of custom sabers. => Data Sheets => Topic started by: eastern57 on January 22, 2010, 02:14:29 PM
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This is primarily used with the MR/Hasbro Force FX sound boards. This works with sound boards/drivers that have separate leads for a latching switch. I have not tested it in a direct drive or resistored/buck puck set-up, and I do not recommend relying on this method to work in those situations.
This also has only been tested with this particular PCB (http://www.lighthound.com/Lighthound-Keychain-Flashlight-Black-Body-White-LED_p_967.html). I have not tested others. But I know this technique works and it has been proven many many times.
Wiring the PCB to your force FX sound board.
- The main negative of the PCB (that entire gold-circle back) goes to the main negative on the sound board (call this the "back" of the PCB).
- Take the little metal connection plate off and attach your momentary switch leads to those connection points (call this the "front" of the PCB).
- The two spots where the LED was attached will connect to your sound board main switch connections [sw(+) & sw(-)]. Sw(+) goes to the pad on the "back" of the PCB and sw(-) to the pad on the "front" of the PCB.
Wide angle:
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi306.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn260%2Feastern57%2FMR%2520board%2FDSC05606.jpg&hash=534e823de1605e59288a43d5971188068b38f4c5) (http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn260/eastern57/MR%20board/DSC05606.jpg)
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi306.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn260%2Feastern57%2FMR%2520board%2FDSC05607.jpg&hash=9f32a3351be402bcb885cbb0841ab0ac8617a2ba) (http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn260/eastern57/MR%20board/DSC05607.jpg)
Close up:
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi306.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn260%2Feastern57%2FMR%2520board%2FMRmom1.jpg&hash=a070556bdf9751ceabd5e5ccc2561754d0c351e9) (http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn260/eastern57/MR%20board/MRmom1.jpg)
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi306.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn260%2Feastern57%2FMR%2520board%2FMRmom2.jpg&hash=d11c5421932955e2b5e5c7dc0e5ffa2a56526a5e) (http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn260/eastern57/MR%20board/MRmom2.jpg)
Diagram:
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi306.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn260%2Feastern57%2FMR%2520board%2FMRmom3.jpg&hash=5c80be558df146a8152620411e7232681de0c9db) (http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn260/eastern57/MR%20board/MRmom3.jpg)
Good Luck! ;)
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Awesome! thank you so much!
-AV
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No Problem, dude! Good Luck!
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I have a question? Do you think that perhaps that PCB could be hot glued directly onto the back of an MR board, for space reasons? Just so I could have it all wired up in a relativly small space? I have some internal space issues with my custom I've been working on, but I really want to get a yellow Anti-Vandal, which only comes in momentary, working with an MR board. Still, I don't know that I would have space for this, etc.
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I have a question? Do you think that perhaps that PCB could be hot glued directly onto the back of an MR board, for space reasons? Just so I could have it all wired up in a relativly small space? I have some internal space issues with my custom I've been working on, but I really want to get a yellow Anti-Vandal, which only comes in momentary, working with an MR board. Still, I don't know that I would have space for this, etc.
I see no reason why you couldn't do glue it to the MR board.
Also, Topic Stickied!
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I have a question? Do you think that perhaps that PCB could be hot glued directly onto the back of an MR board, for space reasons? Just so I could have it all wired up in a relativly small space? I have some internal space issues with my custom I've been working on, but I really want to get a yellow Anti-Vandal, which only comes in momentary, working with an MR board. Still, I don't know that I would have space for this, etc.
No - you MUST construct a separate chassis consisting of diamond disks and non-conducive adamantium struts. :D Hot glue is fine. ;)
Smaller gauge wires, precise measurements, careful wire routing, and lots & lots of planning will strengthen your Cram-fu... it is an art... thus the "fu"... without it, it's just "cram".
Also, Topic Stickied!
Thanks Jay! ;)
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K, thanks, I just wanted to make sure I wouldn't ruin the board or something. Well, when they get back in stock, I may pick up a few.
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more resources..
http://www.batteryjunction.com/titanium-keylight-custom.html
Minimum 250 order...
http://www.szwholesale.com/xtar-1999-ultra-bright-plastic-minikeychain-lightxpk-p-1086.html
.99 cents each...
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Hmmm, I just checked that out... It says that the ship in quantities of 250, I believe... Am I just reading it wrong?
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These little keychain flashlights also look awfully lot like Lighthounds, don't they...?
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.16510
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These little keychain flashlights also look awfully lot like Lighthounds, don't they...?
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.16510
They are the same.. I actually looked there but the search did not show that one.
$2.38 for a 2-pack is a little more but they have them in stock. I usually order stuff once a month from them so I can combine all into one shipment.
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These little keychain flashlights also look awfully lot like Lighthounds, don't they...?
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.16510
I looked there and couldn't find any.....thanks for that!
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got some on order...
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Lighthounds are also back in stock ;)
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Lighthounds are also back in stock ;)
They are now 15 short of fully stocked....;)
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Man I can't believe I used a JK FlipFlop on my sbaers to achieve this, as this way is way smaller
I've checked out a few keyring LEDs that I have and they are all dodgey like - basically the battery inbetween the legs of the LED and uses pressure to light it. Off to source these type of keyrings
thanks for posting this eastern57 :)
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you're welcome. ;)
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Anyone found them on fleebay?
Shipping quote is a little too high from the provided links
I've contacted a few sellers and they reckon that theirs all are just battery and LED
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Try this http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.16510 I believe worldwide shipping is free ;)
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Try this http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.16510 I believe worldwide shipping is free ;)
thanks
I'm going to give them a go
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I didn't even know this was possible! Nice tutorial. Maybe I'll try it someday!
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Well I went to order some keychain LEDs, but got side tracked with cleaning the garage.
During the clean, I came across some of those meal toys kids get from those fast-food joints and noticed it had a rubber push button on it........................
so I gutted it and found this.
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi307.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn304%2Fmmersenne%2FP1040557.jpg&hash=2ccc492849d47cdf192972993f10a297bca7d745)
(no I'm not cruel by pulling them apart, we have a friend that gives us all the left over one's, once that promotion is over)
the measurements are in centimetres, just thought I'd post what I found too, might save a few extra $$ here and there
(tested the same as the lightsound keychain light - mom switch, -ve for the board and 2 switch wires)
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OMG *$(&#! that central solder point where the momentary switch goes (the one that is covered by the metal plate) - MAN that thing is SUPER hard to solder without getting some on the side... >:( I think I messed up at least 2 of those boards tonight trying to do it.
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Installed mine without any issues. I'll try to get some pics up later today.
Note: A little solder paste makes it simple on those small solder points.. Try some...
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Installed mine without any issues. I'll try to get some pics up later today.
Note: A little solder paste makes it simple on those small solder points.. Try some...
Wow man... can't believe I never thought of that. That would have made my life sooooo much easier....
(https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3325/3554827385_ea3ed2a8ac.jpg)
Thanks!
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This is the little mod (what we call a daughterboard) attached to a MR jedi sound board.
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbuttrynet.dyndns.org%2FBNETWeb2%2Fforum%2Fmainuploadsfolder%2FDel%2F2010217171341_mix-match.jpg&hash=fb22a25b95a5b839b7aed0187f77a511ad92c90a) (http://buttrynet.dyndns.org/BNETWeb2/forum/mainuploadsfolder/Del/2010217171341_mix-match.jpg)
I still need to tap some power off the daughterboard to power the green led in the push button switch when the saber is on. Once that is done, I'll hot melt glue the daughterboard to the MR board. Gotta order some more micro connectors. I ran out.... ;D
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This is the little mod (what we call a daughterboard) attached to a MR jedi sound board.
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbuttrynet.dyndns.org%2FBNETWeb2%2Fforum%2Fmainuploadsfolder%2FDel%2F2010217171341_mix-match.jpg&hash=fb22a25b95a5b839b7aed0187f77a511ad92c90a) (http://buttrynet.dyndns.org/BNETWeb2/forum/mainuploadsfolder/Del/2010217171341_mix-match.jpg)
I still need to tap some power off the daughterboard to power the green led in the push button switch when the saber is on. Once that is done, I'll hot melt glue the daughterboard to the MR board. Gotta order some more micro connectors. I ran out.... ;D
Excellent! The solder paste thing worked like a charm!
And I have my daughterboard mounted onto a Yoda sound board basically the same exact way.
As for the power to the accent LED, why not do something like this?
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.thecustomsabershop.com%2Fpicture.php%3Falbumid%3D131%26amp%3Bpictureid%3D989&hash=c29f4cb4f6b34be83c0267bb21df9e20e91540b6) (http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/picture.php?albumid=131&pictureid=989)
(taken from this thread over at TCSS) http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?t=1023&highlight=wire+accent+board&page=2 (http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?t=1023&highlight=wire+accent+board&page=2)
-C
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Can any of you lovely people clarify something for me please regarding this lighthound thing.
Do they (the keychain light) operate via a single press on then single press off or is it something different? I get the feeling I am missing something here ???
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Can any of you lovely people clarify something for me please regarding this lighthound thing.
Do they (the keychain light) operate via a single press on then single press off or is it something different? I get the feeling I am missing something here ???
no you're getting it all right. You press it once, and the light stays on, and then press it again to turn it off. The way it gets wired makes the keychain light act as a latching switch for running an MR board so you can use a momentary switch like say, a mini-tactile to operate the saber.
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Thanks Qui-Gon thats what i thought, just cant find a keychain light in the UK that operates in that manner, they all seem to be press and hold.
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Do they (the keychain light) operate via a single press on then single press off or is it something different? I get the feeling I am missing something here ???
Yup, that's exactly what's going on here. ;)
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Try this http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.16510 I believe worldwide shipping is free ;)
Quoting myself.
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Thanks Luminara i'll give that a go although once bitten ............... tried that with a double maul from Museum Replicas and after a couple of weeks they told me free shipping was a no no overseas and tried to charge me over $100 lol
Although $100 on a $2 light is maybe stretching the bounds of imagination a bit far. Anyway here goes :P
Update:
Ladies and gentleman we have a winner!
Thanks m'lady @ Luminara
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Excellent tutorial!
But one thing, some of these little boards might not be suitable at all.
For me to explain this I need you to fully understand how the electronics work, so here we go:
How it works (most of you probably knows this):
Mechanically there are two kinds of switches, latching and momentary. Latching switches mechanically "closes" the circuit and thus feeding power to the electronics continually. The work a bit like a door, the are either opened or closed ("off" or "on")
Momentary switches does as the name suggests only momentarily close the electric circuit. Imagine a simple flashlight with a momentary switch, for it to work you would have to press down the button all the time. As soon as you released the button, you would break the circuit and the light would go out.
Mechanically momentary switches are a lot easier to make and can be made smaller.
You can however make a momentary switch act like a latching one with a simple electronic processor of some kind. Those are a bit tricky to make yourself, but are easy-peasy for factories. The processor is the little black dot. You can see them on the FX boards as well.
However, since you want that little black dot and its board to be really small, you would find them in little keychains lights and the likes. And in bike lamps. There is one problem with this. A lot of them probably has another little function that you don't see.
The blink the LED (the electricity) in short pulses, like 100 times a second or so. This will make the runtime longer. If the LED is off for half a second every sec, splitted into 100 fragments it would double the lifetime of the battery. The LED is off half the time right?
The funny thing with this is that our eyes and brain ain't fast enough to see it, it looks just as bright.
If the processor (small black dot-thingy) does that, its NOT sutaible for lightsabers.
There is however an easy way to test this: put a string ('bout 0,5m) on the keychain light you plan on using and spin it!
If the circle you can see is dotted, you know the processor is pulsing the electricity. And if the processor is pulsing the electricity
the board is NOT suitable.
MTFBWY and sorry for the long post.
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Explain why you say it would not be suitable as there are tons of folks successfully using it already?
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I suggest that you take some time to do some reading when you are new to forums, and learn about some of the way things are done regarding both electronics and etiquette. While it is appreciated to contribute some knowledge, it also appreciated to not contradict a well respected and knowledgeable member's post because you have your opinion on the matter.
We always welcome new members with open arms, so please respect us as well. :)
Note: MODS, if this thing is inappropriate to post, accept my apology and I will do a PM instead. ;)
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I think I see what he's getting at. I noticed this when I was having a look for a similar keychain on feebay. There are some that look similar to the lighthound ones that have 3 functions. Off, on & strobe. Those are indeed unsuitable for our purposes. But the lighthound ones and their cheaper alternative for international buyers on dealextreme have been specifically chosen for their lack of a strobe function. ;)
So he did have a valid point even if he did sound a teensy bit condescending to start off with.
Although, you know what just occured to me? A three function board could have a very interesting application. It wouldn't work with a saber with a soundboard but used with a stunt saber without sound you might have a cheap alternative to a phase blade system. Just a luxeon (or nearest equivalent) based one.
And Caine, I love it when you get all Jedi Masterful! (https://www.clsinc.net/bikepictures/Emoticons/starwars.gif)
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He's referring to PWM (pulse width modulation) functions. Given that it's been used without issue it really wouldn't seem to be a problem. If it did have PWM it could cause issues with compounding micro-controllers, but for both applications the keychain and MR boards are designed to be pretty "dumb".
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He's referring to PWM (pulse width modulation) functions. Given that it's been used without issue it really wouldn't seem to be a problem. If it did have PWM it could cause issues with compounding micro-controllers, but for both applications the keychain and MR boards are designed to be pretty "dumb".
Right on X. In that sense, PWM would be used so that it is specifically NOT a constant current... it saves a little power and it's actually pretty common. Have you ever noticed that some flashing LEDs won't flash from an ultrasound 2.5 accent LED pad? ;)
Greenveg was only pointing out ONE TYPE to look out for. Yes we have found ONE TYPE that works fine. But... if you come across a similar keychain flashlight with similar properties, try this little trick to see if it is that constant current or if it's a micro-pulse.
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For the record, the lighthound PCB will NOT work for a direct drive stunt. It limits the current to less than 100ma. Good for making the MR switch contact? Yes!
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For the record, the lighthound PCB will NOT work for a direct drive stunt. It limits the current to less than 100ma. Good for making the MR switch contact? Yes!
A relay or power extender might solve that? A direct drive stunt obviously means a driver is out, but in theory a buckpuck should probably like the keychain as an external micro-controller and pucks fit in a lot of places.
He's referring to PWM (pulse width modulation) functions. Given that it's been used without issue it really wouldn't seem to be a problem. If it did have PWM it could cause issues with compounding micro-controllers, but for both applications the keychain and MR boards are designed to be pretty "dumb".
Right on X. In that sense, PWM would be used so that it is specifically NOT a constant current... it saves a little power and it's actually pretty common. Have you ever noticed that some flashing LEDs won't flash from an ultrasound 2.5 accent LED pad? ;)
I've never used a US2.5. I discouraged US use with my customers unless they provided me one. Since I'm not making anymore it's a moot point anyway! I go CF or go home for my personal stuff.
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For the record, the lighthound PCB will NOT work for a direct drive stunt. It limits the current to less than 100ma. Good for making the MR switch contact? Yes!
Oh! I didn't mean the lighthound one I meant one like this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2X-Mini-LED-Bike-Bicycle-Light-Flashlight-Lamp-Keychain_W0QQitemZ200435848994QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_SportsLeisure_Cycling_Bike_Lights?hash=item2eaae85722 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2X-Mini-LED-Bike-Bicycle-Light-Flashlight-Lamp-Keychain_W0QQitemZ200435848994QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_SportsLeisure_Cycling_Bike_Lights?hash=item2eaae85722)
I did previously see others that looked more like the lighthound ones but had a momentary switch that reversed the order so it went solid beam, strobe, off. Still, if the lighthound PCB limits the current I shouldn't imagine the strobe version would be any different. It was merely a suggestion, I wouldn't want anyone actually buying one on account of my theories. :-[
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For the record, the lighthound PCB will NOT work for a direct drive stunt. It limits the current to less than 100ma. Good for making the MR switch contact? Yes!
A relay or power extender might solve that? A direct drive stunt obviously means a driver is out, but in theory a buckpuck should probably like the keychain as an external micro-controller and pucks fit in a lot of places.
Tried it with a puck, not sure why it doesn't work X. Any ideas?
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Now I will try to answer to all you guys in one post. Thats probably a stupid thing to do.
Caine:
My post count doesn't really tell you for how long I've been here. Neither does the time my account have existed. I have actually been around here since 2006... Its just that I live in sweden, and therefore doesn't speak english that well. But my english gets better and better (school goes on...^^) and so does my knowledge of basic electronics. Mostly thanks to my lightsaber interest:D
LUMINARA UNDULI:
If you read my post carefully you would see that in the second line I say: "some of these little boards..."
But, yeah, I should have made that clearer since it is, so to speak, my point.
Darth Inferis:
Me sounding teensy is just me not being good enough at english. Thats why I stay quiet for most of the time^^
Xwing:
PWM! Thats the word I'm looking for! But, do I get you right when you say that it doesn't matter if its PMW or not? For example with an FX board? I hooked my yoda board up to one of those small circuits that I know uses PMW and it behaved... oddly?
If it doesn't matter then I'm way out and apologieses for my long and incorrect post.
Also, eastern got it right, I'm just trying to point out that yes, this was a good find, but if you try this and it doesn't work this might be why.
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Thank you for clarifying that....like I said we love to hear new ideas (and I am learning SO MUCH these days on electronics) and all input is appreciated.
BTW, your English seems fine to me. ;)
I am planning on using this setup in the near future....I will post a vid as soon as it's done (although not sure exactly when)
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Greenveg, I certainly do think it matters, but for this specific LED keychain linked seems to be working. Maybe that's the issue, Eastern has certainly tried this with MR boards and that particular keychain. So I agree, if you know a similar product you have that has PWM and it acting weirdly, the PWM is probably causing it.
Luminara, the input is probably out of the puck's range for what it wants to see. That's why initial I said a power extender or relay.
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Ok, no I get where you were going, and yes, thats kinda what I meant.
The thing is that I have two similar "boards" (what would you call theses litthe thingys?) that look very alike and, on bikelamp and one keychain-thingy and both uses PWM.
I like the fact that the simplest way of testing it is to swing them around in circles.
*going off spinning poi*
However, a similar thing popped up on the TCSS board recently, TroyO found a little circuit that did just this, but capable of bigger loads.
Up to 20V and "several amps".
http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/750 (http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/750)
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OK, now as I try to wire this, I am finding it VERY difficult to get the solder to stick to certain areas of the board. Does someone suggest just sanding it more, or would soldering paste help?
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OK, now as I try to wire this, I am finding it VERY difficult to get the solder to stick to certain areas of the board. Does someone suggest just sanding it more, or would soldering paste help?
Greetings amigo! This very subject cropped up on page 2. Soldering paste is indeed your best bet. ;)
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yeah use flux and it will help it but its hard to say whither you should sand some more without seeing if you have a good sanded spot already.
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Perfect. Thank you all.
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Okay fellas. New question: What's the voltage/current across the MR switch path itself?
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Okay fellas. New question: What's the voltage/current across the MR switch path itself?
that depends on the voltage you are supplying it.
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Care to clarify? Say in this example I'm giving the board 4.8V off of NiMH 4pack.
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Care to clarify? Say in this example I'm giving the board 4.8V off of NiMH 4pack.
I can't get any clearer. It depends on how much voltage you give it.
Take a meter and read across it to see what it reads because that is the only way I know of right now to get the voltage. I dont know a formula to give you to figure it out unfortunately.
I don't believe it is supply voltage as its not directly connected to the + input (there are components it goes through before it gets to the switch +) but I may be wrong.
Just curious why you need to know.
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I'll probably have to do that, when my batteries show up. (they're on order right now and I don't have any spare power supply to test with)
As for why: I am going to be using the momentary-tac-to-latching mod using a Dooku MR board, one of those little Lighthound PCBs, and a tac switch with a white accent LED in it (an illuminated tac switch.) Basically, I want to know if I can drive the accent LED using whatever power is passing across the switch circuit.
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Okay I'm having problems with this. I'm sure I saw someone else post exactly the same problem but I can't find it now. I'm using a Luke ANH soundboard wired up to a Yoda battery plug. I followed the instructions on the photos on the first page to the letter. As soon as the batteries are in the saber activates and the switch does nothing. Any advice?
Update
Not to worry I figured out what I did wrong. I got the soundboard switch polarities the wrong way around. Doh! :-[
Working perfectly now. Many thanks to eastern57 for sharing this invaluable information, to Vektor for providing the link to Deal Extreme & last but by no means least to Luminara for pointing out that Deal Extreme provides free international shipping. ;D