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Author Topic: International shipping - Why many people refuse to offer it.  (Read 7140 times)

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Offline Acerocket

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International shipping - Why many people refuse to offer it.
« on: February 22, 2012, 10:34:33 AM »
Given the events of the past few weeks and the troubles I have had in shipping the international Obi sabers, I thought I would post about this topic in hopes of enlightening a few folks (on both sides of the coin if possible).

I understand it can be very frustrating to be a member from Europe and see a saber for sale that you really want only to find out that the person selling it won't ship overseas.  There is also a thread dealing with this very subject going on over at thereplicapropforum right now.  The argument usually boils down to this - '...I don't see what the difference is.  If the buyer pays for the shipping then why won't you ship the package.  It's not like it's any harder than a domestic package...'

Well, it is a lot harder to ship international than domestic and some people have had bad experiences shipping international and refuse to have to deal with the headaches involved.

Let me relate some information about shipping the Obi sabers.


Domestic packages (those staying in the United States):
I can sign in to my USPS account, select Print a Label with Postage, type in the to address and package value and I will get a list of options for shipping methods.  I can choose Express, Priority, Flat Rate, etc.  I just click on the shipping method of my choice, I can then click on the insurance button to add up to $5000.00 worth of insurance to the package, decide if I want signature confirmation, etc. and click OK.  A few minutes later, I can print out a label I can affix to the package and it is ready to ship.  I can even schedule a pickup of the package the next day by the mail carrier.  I can do all this from the comfort of my own living room - I never have to leave my house.  And on top of that, buying online I get something like an 8% discount over paying at the post office.

APO addressed packages (for our military personnel stationed overseas):
Shipping to an APO address is pretty much the same as shipping domestic with the exception of needing a customs form.  Depending on the value of the package and the shipping method chosen, it can be the short form or long form.  The short form just takes a few minutes to complete online while you are filling out the postage label information.  It prints directly on the postage label.  Some packages need the long form and it can also be filled out online while filling out the postage label.  The long form prints out on 3 pages of paper and you need to cut 2 of them in half (the 3rd page being instructions) and put them in a plastic customs form envelope and attach it to the box.  It's not really all that hard either, just takes a bit more work and you have to have the customs form envelope or you are headed to the Post Office anyways. 

Now, sometimes you run across the odd situation where you cannot fill out the customs form while filling out the postal label information - in this case, there are options for going to a seperate sectiona dn filling out a customs form (both long and short form) and printing them.  A little more work, but still can be done from the conmfort of home.  (You can also print out international customs forms if you can print them with the postage label).

International customers:
International packages are a lot more involved than domestic packages.  I can still sign in to my USPS account and fill in the address and get to a choice of shipping methods.  But as I found out last week, every country has specific rules about what kinds of packages they will allow into their country.  I used to base my shipping prices on the information presented on the shipping option page (discounted, online pricing).  But with this run, I found that I am exceeding the limits of insurance allowed on the package to many countries.  I could not understand why I could not get insurance prices for the Priority and Express option on many of the packages.  I took one of each package in to the post office to try and ship it from a local branch and see why I could not get insurance.  Turns out, those pesky country specific rules apply.  It took some digging on my own to find USPS Country Conditions for Mailing for each country.  I printed these out and there are some interesting observations.

UK will only allow a maximum of $650 insurance on a Express package and there is no insurance available for a Priority package.
Germany will only allow a maximum of $500 insurance on a Express package or Priority package.
Austira will allow a maximum of $5000 insurance on a Express package or Priority package.
Australia will allow a maximum of $5000 insurance on a Express package but only $3644 insurance on a Priority package.

There are also several other rules that need to be followed for each specific country.  Theser ules would be nice to know before you drop your package off and have it refused.

In order to ensure that I cover myself (I do require that the package be insured for it's real and true value), I must resort to Global Express for most of the international packages as it allows up to $2499 insurance value for almost every country.

I can buy the postage online but in order to get more than $500 worth of insurance, I must take the package to the post office and purchase it there.  If I purchase the maximum allowable insurance online when I purchase the postage, I then cannot purchase any further insurance at the post office.  For Priority and Express packages, this is fairly straightforward.  I fill out the appropriate information for the shipping label and customs form and select the shipping method and I get a 1 or 3 page label printed with customs form ready to go (sometimes it is necessary to fill out the customs form seperately as mentioned before).  But now I have to take the package into the post office to purchase the insurance.  Well, now we come to a new problem.  I have shipped many package international before, but never with high enough value to require me to go into the post office to purchase the insurance.  When you go in to the post offce, they retype all the information you already typed on teh label into their computer and tell you the insurance cost.  Sound simple enough, but that takes time and then the price comes out a lot higher than you expect.  Well, it turns out that by bringing the package in to the post office to purchase insurance, you are no longer able to ship the package with  the discounted shipping rate from online.  You have to cover the difference between the online price and the branch mailed price and add the insurance.  For me, that means I owed an extra $5-7 per package I shipped to cover the difference in shipping.  Not a huge deal breaker, but a nusciance and an extra cost to me. 

Global Express packages are an entirely different monster.  Again, I can fill out all the information online and print a postage label.  But I ran into several problems with this.  As my boxes were 14" x 12" x 4" they tripped a limit on package size and I was required to use dimensional weight.  And for this, I have to take the package into the post office to get a postage label.  There is also the same issue witht he discounted online price and the branch mailing price when you purchase insurance at teh post office.  So I needed to take all the packages in to the post office to mail.  Well, Global Express is actually shipped through a partnership with FedEx and an entirely different postage label waybill is required.  It is a half sheet sized form with 5 carbon copy pages to fill out by hand.  Then, Global Express requires a special customs form/commercial invoice.  This is a full page with 3 carbon copies to fill out.  It takes about 20 minutes to fill out the forms for one package (by the time you print legibly, fill out all the information, check to make sure it went through all the carbons, etc).  Then you have to take the package to the post office.  Once there, it takes the clerk another 15 minutes to retype all that information into thier computer to print out postage lables and receipts.  As I mentioned, I usually get the pricing online for my customers.  Taking these into the post office resulted in an additional 10-14 dollar cost to me because I used the discounted price not knowing about the insurance at the post office issue.  I thought I had all the issues sorted out and took 8 Global Express packages to the post office the other day.  In a little over two hours time, i was able to ship 5 of them.  Three were refused because there was erorrs in the postal codes.  For example, the Norwegian postal code I was give was N-XXXX and an Austrian postal code was A-XXXX.  These postal codes work for Express or Priority but not for Global Express.  A not pops up ont eh postal clerk's screen saying there is an error in the postal code or Global Express does not service that area.  I had some PM conversations with those members and it was decided to try to leave off the letter portion of the postal code.  Back to the post office and I was able to ship one of the last three packages but the last two were refused because of a new issue.  That country requires that the commercial invoive/custom form be typed.  Seriously, who has access to a typewriter these days?  You cannot print with a laser printer or inkjet on a 3 page carbon copy form.  So, I have to figure out a way to get my hands on a typewriter.

It has been a veritable nightmare trying to solve all these issues.  Everytime I think I have the puzzle solved, more pieces turn up.

I suppose some of you are saying '...If you would just declare the package for less, I won't have to pay so much in fees and you could ship a lot easier...'   Well, that's fine if I don't care about breaking the law or risking my behind.  In the United States, it is against the law to declare an item for less than it is worth on the customs form.  I do not assign lower value just to save a customer a few dollars in customs fees.  It could come back to bite me and I do not want to take the risk.  Ther is also the issue of charge backs.  A customer can alwasy tell me '...I know I want a lower value and if somethign happens, iw on't doa  chargeback...'  But the reality is, when faced witht eh loss of their saber and money, they will forget all about that 'promise' the made you.  I have to insist on the insurance so I have some protection in case a chargeback is issued through paypal or a credit card. 


I am still planning on offering international shipping even though this recent run has been full of difficulties.  I don't think it is fair to deny someone a chance at my product because they live in another country.  I just wanted to rant a littel about my frustration with the USPS and let some of our international members know why many people choose not to offer international shipping.

Offline Darth Monkey

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Re: International shipping - Why many people refuse to offer it.
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2012, 11:01:46 AM »
Wow Wat sounds like you've been having a nightmare with these :-\

I'm sure that your overseas customers would be willing to pay any extra fees that at the time you had no idea about in order to receive their sabres safely...well I am anyway!

PM me with the amount owed & I'll Paypal you...even if it was only a few $ there's no reason for you to get burned & judging by the reviews you've added quite a few extras to what was an already awesome run.

As for us overseas customers having to wait a bit longer for their piece of awesomeness...wasn't it Obi-Wan himself who suggested "patience" to his young apprentice? :D
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Offline nartules

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Re: International shipping - Why many people refuse to offer it.
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2012, 11:39:33 AM »
There is also an issue, I've found 1-2 countries of the years where no shipping option available offered insurance.  It was like, you can send it, but we won't garentee it will get there kind of thing.  (I used to buy/sell animation cells).

So I'll ship international but I usually tell people I need 1-5 days to go down to the post office, location show them what I am shipping and get suggestions and prices.  The postal employee's usually take 5-10 minutes to figure out themselves.

Even doing this, I often found myself getting stiffed with losing 5-10 dollars.  Because I would go back home, wrap the package as suggested, come back and the new employee I dealt with (I always go to the same place now), couldn't figure out how the previous employee came up with the figure. 

So I can understand why some people don't offer to ship internationally. 


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Offline Sohryu76

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Re: International shipping - Why many people refuse to offer it.
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2012, 11:43:07 AM »
Holy cow...

that is alot to learn!

Thank you for sharing it with us.
I am actually stunned!
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Offline ANAKIN SKYWALKER

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Re: International shipping - Why many people refuse to offer it.
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2012, 12:16:05 PM »
I know it takes me ~ 10-20 minutes depending on who is working at the PO that day to ship 1 or 2 boot disks internationally.  That's why I charge $10 for shipping it. It is such a pain and requires an extra trip to the PO. 


Offline PhoenixJedi

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Re: International shipping - Why many people refuse to offer it.
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2012, 12:18:16 PM »
I know it takes me ~ 10-20 minutes depending on who is working at the PO that day to ship 1 or 2 boot disks internationally.  That's why I charge $10 for shipping it. It is such a pain and requires an extra trip to the PO. 

Its prohibitively expensive if you want any extra features also. Tracking? You have to switch to UPS or Fed-EX. Then you lose some countries and pay $50-60 just to ship a small box.

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Offline ANAKIN SKYWALKER

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Re: International shipping - Why many people refuse to offer it.
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2012, 12:19:40 PM »
exactly.  I tried to put tracking on my first batch of international CDs, and the lady looked at me like I was stupid.  How I am supposed to know all of their stupid rules? 


Offline Scorpion

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Re: International shipping - Why many people refuse to offer it.
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2012, 01:09:09 PM »
wat i wholeheartedly appreciate the trouble you go to to get us overseas buyers our sabers i never thought it was as difficult as that... its alot of running around back and forth to the post office and sounds like a complete pain.
myself and im sure all the others really appreciate it.
im so happy and glad that you are still prepeard to ship international given the circumstances you could have just as easy turned round and said "thats it" never again, but you didnt so thanks a bunch for that man..  ;) really


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Offline Onli-Won Kanomi

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Re: International shipping - Why many people refuse to offer it.
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2012, 03:09:18 PM »
Thanks for this Wat...maybe it will help international customers be more patient and understanding of the difficulties American smiths can have shipping internationally.

I wonder if international smiths have the same kind of difficulties shipping to America as American smiths have shipping internationally? I see lots of things on Ebay I can't buy because its "U.S. sales only" but I've never seen anyone outside the U.S. refuse to sell TO Americans.
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Offline Corran Horn

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Re: International shipping - Why many people refuse to offer it.
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2012, 04:23:33 PM »
I've never had to ship anything internationally, so I'm curious....is it the same sort of issue shipping something from the States to Canada?  I know we tend to get around being considered "international" for a lot of things because of the shared border and the free trade agreement, but I'm wondering if someone can tell me what the overall process is to get things to cross into Canada.

Just curious.

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Offline Luis88

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Re: International shipping - Why many people refuse to offer it.
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2012, 09:04:10 PM »
I think both parties of a sale get nervous when it comes to shipping internationally. Here in Australia EVERY package needs to be brought to the post office whether or not it's to ship within the country or overseas to the US, Europe etc. There is always a form to fill out. I sent an LE to Korea and sent an FX saber to another state (adelaide) and the only difference was the price of postage. Wait in line, weigh your item and collect a form, fill out the form then get back in line for the post master to make sure the package is secure and forms are filled out properly and rules are followed. it's all pretty standard here. it has it's pro's and con's. same formula to ship everything but it's a little time consuming.

Offline PhoenixJedi

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Re: International shipping - Why many people refuse to offer it.
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2012, 01:07:41 AM »
I've never had to ship anything internationally, so I'm curious....is it the same sort of issue shipping something from the States to Canada?  I know we tend to get around being considered "international" for a lot of things because of the shared border and the free trade agreement, but I'm wondering if someone can tell me what the overall process is to get things to cross into Canada.

Just curious.

Yup.. USPS to Canada = NO tracking. :( Canada to USPS = FULL tracking. its odd.

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Offline LUMINARA UNDULI

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Re: International shipping - Why many people refuse to offer it.
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2012, 08:12:23 AM »
Everyone has different experiences.  We do a ton of International Shipping, most of the time fairly painlessly.  In fact, I have had more packages damaged or lost (still an extremely small percentage) domestically than internationally.

Personally, I would choose FEDEX over USPS Global Express.  Similar pricepoints and FEDEX just "gets it done".  I find quicker customs times and every package I have ever shipped through FEDEX (some for several thousand dollars) is fully insured.  I will say, the forms with FEDEX are definitely a pain to navigate as they use additional forms that USPS doesn't seem to use (maybe the reason for less delay in customs?), but once you have done it several times it is easier, though not easy.

With USPS, yep, UK is going to be a minimum of $650 insurance.  Several other countries have that limit as well.  I still declare the full amount and let the customer know that is the maximum insurance.  If they are OK with that (in writing :D), it ships.  If not, I offer FEDEX.  Choice, around $40-$50 insured for $650 or around $135-$150 fully insured and will get there a whole lot quicker.  Up to the customer.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 09:48:52 AM by LUMINARA UNDULI »



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Offline Corran Horn

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Re: International shipping - Why many people refuse to offer it.
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2012, 09:36:20 AM »
I've never had to ship anything internationally, so I'm curious....is it the same sort of issue shipping something from the States to Canada?  I know we tend to get around being considered "international" for a lot of things because of the shared border and the free trade agreement, but I'm wondering if someone can tell me what the overall process is to get things to cross into Canada.

Just curious.

Yup.. USPS to Canada = NO tracking. :( Canada to USPS = FULL tracking. its odd.

I get tracking from USPS right up to the Canadian border.  Once it crosses into Canada I tend to get nothing.  Which for me isn't so bad, I live on the border so at least I know it's generally not far away.

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Offline Rafalema

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Re: International shipping - Why many people refuse to offer it.
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2012, 09:59:10 AM »
I'm in Finland, and USPS gave me tracking info all the way through.

From all the shipping companies, I love UPS. They bring the stuff to your door and they're quite fast in my experience.

Thanks for another extremely informative thread  ;)
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