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Author Topic: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available  (Read 186927 times)

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Offline erv

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2010, 03:15:05 AM »
li-ion FTW so, right ?  :D

Offline Delmustator

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2010, 04:39:43 AM »
I say put a statement that the recommended power source for the CF is Li-Ion, use other sources at your own risk, performance may vary.

I have a couple of sabers powered by Ni-Mh and I hate that. I plan to convert them all to Li-Ion.

With good planning and proper battery selection, you can build any saber design with Li-Ion cells. 


NOTE: I DO have one gripe about Li-Ion cells with PCBs. Some sabers can drain the cells to the point that the PCB protection kicks in at it's low voltage threshold and creates an OPEN condition. I have one early version Yoda Graflex CF that has a nasty habit of causing this condition. Getting the PCB to unlock so the cell can be recharged can be a PITA.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 04:46:25 AM by Delmustator »
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Offline Luke S.

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2010, 05:05:33 AM »
 


NOTE: I DO have one gripe about Li-Ion cells with PCBs. Some sabers can drain the cells to the point that the PCB protection kicks in at it's low voltage threshold and creates an OPEN condition. I have one early version Yoda Graflex CF that has a nasty habit of causing this condition. Getting the PCB to unlock so the cell can be recharged can be a PITA.

del what batteroies r u using.  If ultrafire get rid of them.  This is not or should not ba a cf issue.  Some batt brands just aren't that great

Offline xwingband

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2010, 05:20:12 AM »
As always it's a weighing back and forth on issues.  I look at the voltage needed and what I can fit in the hilt and meets that requirement.  There have been times I could fit 5AA NiMH and preferred that over 2AA of li-ion.  Or 2 18650 not fitting... it all depends. 7AAA in a barrel roll has been vastly underused compared to 2AA of li-ion IMO.

The people that don't understand it all will end up defaulting to li-ion anyway.  Let the rest of us deal with it.

Offline Delmustator

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #34 on: February 24, 2010, 05:44:09 AM »
del what batteroies r u using.  If ultrafire get rid of them.  This is not or should not ba a cf issue.  Some batt brands just aren't that great

Bingo! Yep, they are Ultrafires. And you are correct, it's NOT a CF issue. It's a battery issue.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 07:30:43 AM by Delmustator »
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Offline JANGO FETT

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2010, 05:53:03 AM »
Del,
Yoda has started recommending these for his graflexes
http://www.lighthound.com/AW-14500-Protected-Rechargeable-Lithium-Battery_p_96.html

Goodman and eastern57 have tested them and have given a thumbs up as well.

I use trustfires, and have not had your reported issue.


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Offline Luke S.

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #36 on: February 24, 2010, 09:25:17 AM »
Thanks Josh.  I was on my phone earlier and the flight attendent was about to smack me. :D

Del those are the exact ones I have and they work great.  They will run perfectly without issue along with your CF.  My ultrafires were all shutting down towards the end there.  Grab two pair IMO.  ;)



Offline erv

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2010, 10:53:49 AM »
7AAA in a barrel roll has been vastly underused compared to 2AA of li-ion IMO.
The people that don't understand it all will end up defaulting to li-ion anyway.  Let the rest of us deal with it.

agreed. However, I'll add this : nimh, like state above, has a huge internal resistance. Pumping a lot of amp on weak cell (typically 1A on a AAA pack) make voltgage varying a lot. Current regulation isn't helped in this case, neither the onboard voltage regulator. Second, on CF (until now, things will change on V5), amp isn't voltage regulated, so you HEAR the ripple you create.
I'll say it simple : if you build up a saber with not CF (or just no sound), then you can do what you want, but as soon as you put heavy flicker or pulse effect and sound, then you hear what you generate visually. Reason why I prefer li-ion or properly dimmensionned nimh : 4 AA @ 1.5A generate very low ripple compared to 6 AAA at the same current.

Offline KI-ADI-MUNDI

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #38 on: February 24, 2010, 06:27:08 PM »
7AAA in a barrel roll has been vastly underused compared to 2AA of li-ion IMO.
The people that don't understand it all will end up defaulting to li-ion anyway.  Let the rest of us deal with it.

agreed. However, I'll add this : nimh, like state above, has a huge internal resistance. Pumping a lot of amp on weak cell (typically 1A on a AAA pack) make voltgage varying a lot. Current regulation isn't helped in this case, neither the onboard voltage regulator. Second, on CF (until now, things will change on V5), amp isn't voltage regulated, so you HEAR the ripple you create.
I'll say it simple : if you build up a saber with not CF (or just no sound), then you can do what you want, but as soon as you put heavy flicker or pulse effect and sound, then you hear what you generate visually. Reason why I prefer li-ion or properly dimmensionned nimh : 4 AA @ 1.5A generate very low ripple compared to 6 AAA at the same current.
When you say hear are you meaning white noise in the speaker?... I have a 4.2 running on a 4.8 Nimh pack and the white noise is significantly loader then it is on the 4.1 I'm running on 2 Trustfires...
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 06:31:32 PM by KI-ADI-MUNDI »
   
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Offline vex

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2010, 08:54:36 PM »
I think Erv means, when you are using a heavy flicker effect, the peak brightness of the led during the flicker will cause loss to the actual sound of the saber itself and vice versa, because the pack can't properly load both sources at once because the amp section of the V5 isn't regulated as per previous models, thus causing the ripple. I think the white noise you're referring to is simply more power feeding the amp section of the board when idle.. Please correct me if I misunderstood..

Offline xwingband

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #40 on: February 24, 2010, 08:58:53 PM »
Del,
Yoda has started recommending these for his graflexes
http://www.lighthound.com/AW-14500-Protected-Rechargeable-Lithium-Battery_p_96.html

Goodman and eastern57 have tested them and have given a thumbs up as well.

I use trustfires, and have not had your reported issue.

hehe, I've been using AW for years.  When will you all learn to trust me.  :P

Get them straight from the source though: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=200812  This person if not the direct source is closely tied in China and has done custom runs.  I had some rocking 25500's a while back from him.

agreed. However, I'll add this : nimh, like state above, has a huge internal resistance. Pumping a lot of amp on weak cell (typically 1A on a AAA pack) make voltgage varying a lot. Current regulation isn't helped in this case, neither the onboard voltage regulator. Second, on CF (until now, things will change on V5), amp isn't voltage regulated, so you HEAR the ripple you create.
I'll say it simple : if you build up a saber with not CF (or just no sound), then you can do what you want, but as soon as you put heavy flicker or pulse effect and sound, then you hear what you generate visually. Reason why I prefer li-ion or properly dimmensionned nimh : 4 AA @ 1.5A generate very low ripple compared to 6 AAA at the same current.

Yeah, agreed.  It's not ideal either way.  I dread having to go lower to anything AA size or lower.  I really like 14650's and of course 18650's.  I've always wanted to try a special saber and fit A size or SubC NiMH's.  I'd love to get those 25500's I had again too.  I love massive runtimes.

Offline erv

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #41 on: February 24, 2010, 11:55:19 PM »
I think Erv means, when you are using a heavy flicker effect, the peak brightness of the led during the flicker will cause loss to the actual sound of the saber itself and vice versa, because the pack can't properly load both sources at once because the amp section of the V5 isn't regulated as per previous models, thus causing the ripple. I think the white noise you're referring to is simply more power feeding the amp section of the board when idle.. Please correct me if I misunderstood..

it really depends if you are talking about white noise. There's a little sssshhh when the saber is idle, it's normal, it's the amp, however vex is (almost) right, what you hear is the peak or the current variation (flicker) that you hear as low freq, it's more a noisy buzz.
Note : the fact the amp isn't regultated in voltage on previous version isn't causing the ripple. The nimh pack is causing the ripple, the lack of regulator for the amp cause that you hear it.

Xwing : thanks for your contribution. I *did* listen to you (many times). Finished my studies long ago but still, I'm a good studient  ;) The guy at cpfmarketplace answers quickly and those cells are exactly what we need. It's affordable too.

Offline Novastar

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2010, 04:00:08 AM »
While we're on the whole "Li-Ion???  Ni-Mh????  Both??  Or one over the other..." kind of thing here... and since Michael (X-Wing) mentioned the whole size constraints issue--which can be VERY relevant + problematic...

...it may be of some help to remind people that--YES--Li-Ion technology is still evolving, and YES other sized cells ARE out there.  It's not even really a "secret", it's just not "widely known", neither.  But anyway, 14500s (basically "standard AA size") and 18650s (pretty large!) are NOT the only choices out there in Li-Ion!

Heck... LiFePO4 might actually "overtake" Li-Ion in some years to come.  You never know.  Difficult to see the future it is... :D

Um... btw--DELMU, it's good to see you again!!  Maybe you've been around, but I hadn't seen ya lately... :)  Great to see your sig, hahahah it always makes me smile.  :D

Oh, and you know what Del... I *HAVE* experienced that little PCB "circuit trip" you mentioned.  But yup--"older" is the key word... I only had that issue "back in the day" (2005/2006)--basically meaning the "early" PCBs for Li-Ions.  Chances are, you won't have that issue (as much?) in the future.  I haven't had the issue with any of the newer cells (2008/2009) that I've bought.

You know what else...?  We're also talking about something important:

* You change AA Alkaline "often"... so turnaround into better stuff is always there, generally
* When you use Li-Ion... ... your cells might be useful/good for like THREE OR FOUR YEARS!!  So you don't change them (maybe)... and yet, technology is improving
* Li-Ion... although not "new" per se... is still pretty much in its "baby stages"

In fact, when you get down to it... some of the most "major" innovations on Li-Ions... happened in 2004.  Have a look, folks--get educated if ya wish!  :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery

...versus Ni-Mh, which--although it has its uses--is not "as ideal" OVERALL for the crazy usages/application WE are attempting.  Bloody saber geeks we are...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel-metal_hydride_battery

So there ya go.  Go clicky and read... and maybe Erv's "wild suggestions" will make more sense (if you're someone perplexed by the idea of saber makers "aiming more toward" Li-Ion)...
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Offline erv

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2010, 09:25:55 AM »
from what I read here, seems that *now* nimh internal resistance isn't so bad compared to li-ion. However, my experience of using low C nimh with high current generates voltage ripple.
Thanks novastar for pointing all those articles


First V5 is assembled at like 99%. This isn't the final PCB since in the meanwhile I went back to 0603 parts so that assembly can be automated by an average machine. However, it doesn't change anything on the functionnal point of view or schematic. I moved a few parts too. Also, I'm still missing certain parts, to stay away of ordering many times from my suppliers and be killed with shipping cost (it's called the mouser effect). I used similar parts, put a few capacitors in // when I didn't have the exact value, and it's like 95% like what the final version will be.

Code port is going well, I'm now digging the configuration of the MCU peripherals and I hope to have SD, sound and lux drive up and running very soon.
I'll post pictures soon. The boards IS SMALL !
did I mention it fits a ki-adi saber ?

Offline Delmustator

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2010, 09:31:41 AM »
Don't forget the AAA 10440 size Li-Ion cells? Those can go into just about any saber design. Run times may be crap but for those display sabers,,, perfect..

I myself am looking forward to nanotube batteries.  ;D

Nova, yeah, I'm around. Just so many projects going on that I don't get to surf the forums as much.

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Sorry for the highjacking Erv.. I'll stop now..  ;D
« Last Edit: February 25, 2010, 09:36:33 AM by Delmustator »
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