FX-Sabers.com

Star Wars Movies, Videos, TV, Books => Clone Wars => Topic started by: Rats on October 12, 2011, 08:58:01 AM

Title: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Rats on October 12, 2011, 08:58:01 AM
Saw this article this morning: http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/10/12/star-wars-clone-wars-darth-maul/. Looks like Darth Maul did in fact survive being chopped in half. What are everyone's thoughts on this? Personally, provided they give a decent backstory to how he could have survived, I'm pretty excited. To me, Darth Maul was always the Boba Fett of the Prequels: one of the coolest characters despite having almost no lines who doesn't do much onscreen and dies like a punk. I'm curious to see where they go from here.
Title: Re: Darh Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: GreyJedi on October 12, 2011, 09:05:36 AM
Yep, lets just shoe horn as many characters into this series as possible no matter if it makes sense or not...

Whats next, teenage Han Solo and Chewie?   ::)
Title: Re: Darh Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Corran Horn on October 12, 2011, 09:06:35 AM
Well, perhaps we can get DM himself to chime in with his opinion of his sudden ressurrection. Lol.
Title: Re: Darh Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Darth Xylon on October 12, 2011, 09:38:09 AM
i dont even care how they do it, my favorite character is coming back, UHHH WIN FOR ME!!!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Darh Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Drazel O'Thumos on October 12, 2011, 09:49:03 AM
This is most intriguing indeed... this is really puzzling....I only hope that they won't do something too stupid and too unlikely (like in the Visionaries comic in which you see a "cyborg" Darth Maul return on Tatooine).  >:(  How can one survive that? Being cut in half by a plasma beam and falling from a hundred meter distance does not leave many options...  :P ::) I think that the only likely scenaristic possibility (within the narrative framework of the SW Universe)  would be : cloning. Palpatine might had somehow "foreseen" that fateful end and taken a blood sample from Maul (note that Sidious/Palpatine takes pride in "foreseeing" everything and relishes in mocking his former master -Darth Plagueis- because he couldn't predict his own betrayal,  but ironically he ultimately proves to be unable to notice his own apprentice's thoughts of rebellion and betrayal ::) ???).

By the way, speaking about the return and surgical rehabilitation of characters in the SW Universe, there is something that I keep wondering about and I think that this is the opportunity for me to ask that question to all the SW Fans here. In the case of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader, who had both his legs and his arm cutt off by a heated plasma beam (which produces very clean and instantly cauterized wounds), why didn't Palpatine use the cloning facility to simply grow new organic limbs from a sample of totipotent or multipotent cells taken from the remaining tissues on Anakin/Vader's body (sorry I do not know the apt word in English - English is not my native language)????  ??? ::) I mean: in the SW Universe, if they have the technology to grow complete organisms from cells (as is the case for clones), then WHY couldn't they (or is it maybe a matter of will rather than of technical feasibility?!) grow new differentiated tissues and ultimately new limbs that would then be grafted onto injured bodies?

Title: Re: Darh Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Son of suns on October 12, 2011, 09:49:51 AM
If you read the article filoni makes a very good point. The Dark Side of the Force is the path to many abilities some consider to beā€¦unnatural. We have no idea how long or how well Darth sidious trained Darth Maul in the ways of the force. I love the way this series gives writers (other than GL) the ability to tell new stories using our beloved characters.
Title: Re: Darh Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: vulcan fox on October 12, 2011, 10:01:54 AM
interesting and fun.? :)
Title: Re: Darh Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Juansith on October 12, 2011, 10:05:51 AM
This article is a bunch of nonsense, Darth Maul died, period.

So what, suddenly SW becomes Harry Potter and Maul used some Skelegro potion?.What, did he made some Horcruxes and conjured a spell to regain his dead half?.

Books and cartoons dont count, only the films. Boba Fett Died, Darth Maul died, the Emperor Died, Greedo Died, The Rancor died, those Ewoks died and that monster chess figure died.
Title: Re: Darh Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Nero Attoru on October 12, 2011, 10:12:11 AM
I would complain about this as well, but it's been established that characters (especially darksiders) can survive being cut in half - Maw from Jedi Knight anyone?

When it comes to the Clone Wars, I just watch it like I watch a Michael Bay film.  You gotta just appreciate the coolness factor, and filter out the rest... it's a kid's show anyway.
Title: Re: Darh Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Corran Horn on October 12, 2011, 10:26:48 AM
I think much like Maw, you're going to find that none of his important vital organs were affected by the injury and the cauterization would indeed stop the bleeding.  So what's to say Maul didn't find something to grab hold of on his way down?  If Anakin and Obi-Wan can manage to throw a grapple and then swing into an open turbolift door with Palpatine hanging from their ankles, I'd say grabbing hold of a pipe when you weigh half of what you did a minute ago isn't that hard of a feat.
Title: Re: Darh Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Darksaber 3 on October 12, 2011, 10:34:20 AM
Darth Maui died, period. As far as I am concerned, anyways. I absolutely despise this "Clone Wars" TV show, and refuse to watch it, ever. Not only is it animated, which frankly takes away from most of the awesomeness that was Star Wars, for me, but George Lucas is just trying to shove as much crap into it as he can to make it sell better, in my opinion.

Of course, Maul was one of the only things I liked about TPM, but that was mostly because he was so quiet and had a very mysterious, but powerful presence. Having him come back in a cartoon kind of ruins that for me.
Title: Re: Darh Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: wickachu on October 12, 2011, 10:56:44 AM
Books and cartoons dont count, only the films. Boba Fett Died, Darth Maul died, the Emperor Died, Greedo Died, The Rancor died, those Ewoks died and that monster chess figure died.

(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/_LFfUjeP-2iw/SvuC-p_IqsI/AAAAAAAAAvQ/PV7ptqQuCHQ/s400/CryingChild.jpg)


next you're going to tell me santa isn't real...   >:(

seriously the funniest thing i've heard all week.  ;D
Title: Re: Darh Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Luke S. on October 12, 2011, 10:59:33 AM
Terrible.   >:(

The mistake to kill maul too early on was already made. The damage was done a decade ago.  Trying to reverse his apparent death kills TPM.  It makes the six movies seem like a soap opera where they keep killing off people only to have them miraculously survive. 

Let me guess.  He has a spider wheelchair like was saw in wild wild west. :P

In my mind Boba Fett died in the Sarlac.  End of story.  That was another huge mistake.  Bob a should have died in ROTJ and it should have been a climactic death.  Maybe by solo since they had a little backstory together.  It would have been sweet justice.  Not an accidentl death by ooops, sorry dude I hit your jetpack.  Blaster shot to the head. Something.  Anything.

Dear george,

Please stop killing Star Wars.  You had a good thing going.  Just stop now.   :'(
Title: Re: Darh Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: OBI-WAN KENOBI on October 12, 2011, 11:11:18 AM
OH COME ON!!!!!! :D  

But seriously, I'm gonna wait till Wedge chimes in before I decide how I feel about this.  :D

Title: Re: Darh Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: JANGO FETT on October 12, 2011, 11:13:11 AM
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi20.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb219%2FNailbunny375%2Fjump_the_shark-1.jpg&hash=6ab50fd8042690ecad70f9839c494c24115c3053) (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b219/Nailbunny375/jump_the_shark-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Darh Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Luke S. on October 12, 2011, 11:43:49 AM
OH COME ON!!!!!! :D  

But seriously, I'm gonna wait till Wedge chimes in before I decide how I feel about this.  :D



+1

I thought the same thing.  :D
Title: Re: Darh Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Corran Horn on October 12, 2011, 11:51:53 AM
You know, I felt the same way, but on the other hand, the idea that he is back, and that Obi-Wan is a big man on campus (which has to seriously irritate him) in the galaxy could make for some really fun watching.  I'd love to see a rematch.
Title: Re: Darh Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Rion Ozryel on October 12, 2011, 12:12:55 PM
I like the fact he's coming back. If they have the technology to rebuild Grievous and turn Anakin into Vader why not show the same love for Maul? Besides I kind like the look of "Chicken Leg" Maul:

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi496.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Frr326%2FRi-on%2Fgifs%2FVisionaries_Darth_Maul.jpg&hash=051dc52def4877beaca188ea35fbb13806f5b860)
Title: Re: Darh Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Juansith on October 12, 2011, 12:15:02 PM
Books and cartoons dont count, only the films. Boba Fett Died, Darth Maul died, the Emperor Died, Greedo Died, The Rancor died, those Ewoks died and that monster chess figure died.

(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/_LFfUjeP-2iw/SvuC-p_IqsI/AAAAAAAAAvQ/PV7ptqQuCHQ/s400/CryingChild.jpg)


next you're going to tell me santa isn't real...   >:(

seriously the funniest thing i've heard all week.  ;D

Lmao.
Who would say Santa isnt real, of course is real. Not Alf though, he was a puppet.

Honestly, this is getting ridiculous, if they need an iconic character to boost the Clone Wars ratings, why not create someone new to the franchise. Its very cheap to rehash a dead guy just to engage fans.

Next is an explanation on how Grand Moff Tarkin escaped at the last second from the Death Star in a little space ship he had ready in that control room.

Or how Jabba played dead and teleported his slugness body to a hidden planet, because, if we a re going to suddenly make stuff up, everything is possible  ::)
Title: Re: Darh Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Sunrider on October 12, 2011, 12:54:18 PM
 This is wonderful. Do you know what this means.......  :o :o  My favorite characters can come back to life now. WoooHooo. Qui Gon only had a little hole poked in him so he can come back (that was just a ceremonial body there in the fire at the end of the movie).  Oooooooooh and Mace can come back too. He must have done a spider man off a flag pole and jumped to safety. Maybe even Count Dooku can have his head reattached. sweet  :D
Title: Re: Darh Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: nartules on October 12, 2011, 01:05:34 PM
Who the heck is Darh Maul..is that like Darth Mauls ugly stepbrother?

Now if Darth Maul came back...that would be stupid, what is he wolverine?  Make sure you chop him up next time obi and spread the seven pieces of his body across the galaxy...If you are going to do a job, do it right at least psshh.
Title: Re: Darh Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Drazel O'Thumos on October 12, 2011, 01:08:29 PM
My concern is : why would they (Palpatine or someone else) use bionic technology such as that used with Grievous, when there is a cloning facility available in which they can grow living tissue (and ultimately organic limbs) from mere cells? I've never understood why this was not used to "reconstruct" Anakin/Vader's body or maybe even Grievous (the case of Darth Maul is different, because it is highly unlikely that being cut in half right in the abdomen and staying that way for a while can be without any lethal consequences). That is why I suggested that the only plausible way of justifying ( ::) ::) ::)) Darth Maul's return would be to suppose that the new one coming back is a clone (much like Starkiller) and that Palpatine had foreseen the necessity to take a few biological samples from his former apprentice....
Title: Re: Darh Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Nero Attoru on October 12, 2011, 01:15:18 PM
My concern is : why would they (Palpatine or someone else) use bionic technology such as that used with Grievous, when there is a cloning facility available in which they can grow living tissue (and ultimately organic limbs) from mere cells? I've never understood why this was not used to "reconstruct" Anakin/Vader's body or maybe even Grievous (the case of Darth Maul is different, because it is highly unlikely that being cut in half right in the abdomen and staying that way for a while can be without any lethal consequences). That is why I suggested that the only plausible way of justifying ( ::) ::) ::)) Darth Maul's return would be to suppose that the new one coming back is a clone (much like Starkiller) and that Palpatine had foreseen the necessity to take a few biological samples from his former apprentice....

I get the feeling that they try to avoid "cloning" as a legitimate option for Force users.  In the EU, there's Joruus Cbaoth who goes mad from the cloning process, as did many of the Starkiller clones.  Otherwise Palps could just clone himself an army of Vaders...
Title: Re: Darh Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Drazel O'Thumos on October 12, 2011, 01:18:56 PM
Interesting....And is there an explanation, a rationale for this induced madness? Because singularity in the Force implies non-transferable bodily individuality ? That would be an interesting implication. But wasn't Palpatine supposed to have cloned himself??
Title: Re: Darh Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: DARTH MAUL on October 12, 2011, 01:46:16 PM
Its good to be a favorite.  ;D

Maybe I'll have more than one line I can quote from now on after this. I think its fully feasible for him to survive in a few scenarios, but I'm going to have to agree let it go. I stopped watching the series before the last season and haven't picked it back up.

Title: Re: Darh Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Drazel O'Thumos on October 12, 2011, 01:55:05 PM


I think its fully feasible for him to survive in a few scenarios.



And what would be the most plausible scenarios, according to you? (I am really curious to know -- but I agree with most of the contributors to this topic : I do not like very much the Clone Wars series either...).
Title: Re: Darh Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: nartules on October 12, 2011, 02:09:36 PM
Interesting....And is there an explanation, a rationale for this induced madness? Because singularity in the Force implies non-transferable bodily individuality ? That would be an interesting implication. But wasn't Palpatine supposed to have cloned himself??

In the comics, Palp cloned a copy of himself that was an empty shell that was never brought to life.  He used the darkside of the force to propel his essence into these clones as a form of ressurection.
Title: Re: Darh Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: OBI-WAN KENOBI on October 12, 2011, 02:10:35 PM
I sure do have a knack for leaving loose ends with my fights.  :-\  I'm gonna chalk it up to sabotage of my lightsaber blade.

In any case, I hear dagobah is very nice this time of year.  I think I might scope out some nice swamp-front properties soon.
Title: Re: Darh Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: nartules on October 12, 2011, 02:12:35 PM
I agree with obi wan.  He only half killed vader, half killed maul, and half trained Luke which almost got the kid killed, and only half saved the galaxy (Him and Yoda were partners in this venture otherwise it would have been doomed to failure).
Title: Re: Darh Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: OBI-WAN KENOBI on October 12, 2011, 02:15:44 PM
A pep talker you are not.

:D
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: General Veers on October 12, 2011, 03:43:30 PM
No offense here anyone, but you're all talking about the plausibility issues of bringing Darth Maul back.
Plausibility issues?

We're talking about a Science Fiction outer space action/adventure with lasers and spaceships and hyperspace and an army of clones, and an army of droids and a space station the size of a planet that can blow up planets, and mechanical people and a power that allows people to move things by raising their hand and speeders and giant slugs that talk and glowing sticks of plasma that chop things clean up and blasters and sound in space and...and...I think that's it.

Who cares about plausibiliy issues? Just bring Darth Maul back! Star Wars has lived off of non-plausibility for 34 years now. I'll admit, it was a mistake killing Maul in TPM, I would have much rather had Maul leading the droid army rather than Dooku...but it was not to be, and now they want to bring Maul back? I say go!

I think as Star Wars fans these days we are actually TRYING to find flaws in anything Star Wars related that comes out other than lightsabers. I don't think that's very fair. I like that they are bringing Maul back. He's one of my favorite SW characters of all time (and THOUSANDS of others as well) So this? This I don't mind.
One guys opinion. Just my .02

GV
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: General Veers on October 12, 2011, 04:23:10 PM
*Edited for no longer being relevant*

GV
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Corran Horn on October 12, 2011, 04:27:08 PM
*Edited for content.*
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: jetsaber on October 12, 2011, 04:33:32 PM
 :D Maybe a Clone Darth Maul lol  :D
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Corran Horn on October 12, 2011, 05:20:49 PM
Honestly,

We DO seem to be looking for something to complain about on here sometimes.  Nothing will ever live up to the Star Wars we all grew up with and no one likes to have to get used to going to a new school.  But it's part of life.  We need to stop bickering like little children and take it for what it is....entertainment.

Times have changed, and in order for the story to continue to be viable to today's audience, it has to adapt.

(For the record, I'm just as concerned as the rest of you that this is going to be awful.  Now if you need me, I'll be in the corner sulking.   :P)
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Jaden Korr on October 12, 2011, 05:26:04 PM
Im not so much concerned that Maul is back, it is Star Wars after all.

"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force"
"The Darkside id a pathway to some things, some might consider to be unnatural"

Yadda yadda yadda.

Is it possible he is back, ya sure why not.

My concern is how they are going to pull it off. I just have no confidence. I shutter at the possibility of the child friendly Maul
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: General Veers on October 12, 2011, 05:29:10 PM
Im not so much concerned that Maul is back, it is Star Wars after all.

"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force"
"The Darkside id a pathway to some things, some might consider to be unnatural"

Yadda yadda yadda.

Is it possible he is back, ya sure why not.

My concern is how they are going to pull it off. I just have no confidence. I shutter at the possibility of the child friendly Maul
TPM was probably the most child-friendly Star Wars film. I doubt they'll change him much.
But don't take all my re assurance wrong. I'm concerned that they will totally ruin the Maul character that we love. I'm not concerned that they'll be bringing him back, I applaud that, I'm concerned about what they're going to do after they bring him back.

GV
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Jedi Exile on October 12, 2011, 05:30:41 PM
The term "Child friendly" and "Darth Maul" go together in the same sentence about as good as peanut butter and battery acid.  :-X
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: General Veers on October 12, 2011, 05:31:51 PM
The term "Child friendly" and "Darth Maul" go together in the same sentence about as good as peanut butter and battery acid.  :-X
lol.....I don't really agree with you....but that just made my day.

GV
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: GreyJedi on October 12, 2011, 05:42:05 PM
Its not so much a matter of suspended belief as it is a matter of the same old gag over and over again. Throw in a popular character everyone likes regardless of the story to boost ratings and sales. We see right through it and it comes across as gimmicky.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Drazel O'Thumos on October 14, 2011, 12:44:24 PM
Yes, I agree with what Grey Jedi said. It can be seen as a mere trick to revive a popular character, just for the sake of it being appealing to some fans. But I am still wondering what will be the narrative excuse/justification for doing so.... I would like the Star Wars storyline and Universe (including the so-called "expanded Universe") to be more coherent sometime.... :-\ I write scenarios for roleplaying games (as one of my numerous hobbies) and I personnaly cannot enjoy the plot of a fictional story when it is not plausible, that is to say when my mind cannot make any sense of it on logical grounds. For a perfect plot, reason and imagination must work together. And, once the "exotic" properties of a fictional universe are defined and taken for granted as a basis for our imagination, "plausibility" still has to be integrated as a way to give this universe an enjoyable degree of "realism" in virtue of certain narrative rules and logical constraints established within that original imaginary framework.....because else, everything quickly becomes purely and utterly arbitrary and nonsensical...  ;) :)
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Corran Horn on October 14, 2011, 12:50:19 PM
Wow. Very well said.  And may I also add, "Could someone get us a new thesaurus? Forcepractitioner just wore a hole through ours."

Lol.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Jm419 on October 14, 2011, 01:28:10 PM
This is getting out of hand. 

Let's look at perhaps the other most successful movie franchise around, Harry Potter.  Rowling seems to get it far more than Lucas ever did.

For one thing, there's the EU.  Personally, I think the Star Wars EU (really, fan fiction) is in general, very badly done.  Chaotic storylines crisscrossing everywhere immediately after the Battle of Endor are one thing, but do we really need to hear about the further further adventures of our heroes?  Sure, the EU licensing has made Lucas a bundle, but frankly, the entire universe is becoming hard to follow if you consider anything other than the six films to be canon, and even those are a little out of perfect continuity.  Really, the OT is what defines Star Wars for a lot of people.  Only the OT.  These other writers have vastly changed Lucas' universe, and not for the better, I'd have to say.  Cloning, Luke getting married, the Solo Children, Ahsoka - sure, people love these characters, but I think it's both laughable and pathetic at the same time.

Rowling, on the other hand, has steadfastly refused to allow anyone to write fan fiction - and as such, her story is her story, without any EU equivalent.  She has defined what she wanted her world to be, and as such, she can make her own rules.  There's a reason, though, that she has one of her main characters say, "No spell can awaken the dead," or something along those lines.  Dead is dead, and that means dead.  It also means world balance; if you think about it, no one would ever die.  Say your spouse dies; no problem, just go out and clone another one.  Bad speeder crash?  No problem!  It removes consequences from life - and to have death be permanent, well, that defines the world in the only way we know how to define it.

This is just another example of Lucas' foolishness, or greed.  Maul was cool, whatever, but now he's dead.  He should just stay dead - or else, there are a lot of unpleasant implications for Star Wars at large.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Luke S. on October 14, 2011, 01:53:13 PM
Clone Wars is not REAL Star Wars.  It's just a cartoon.  Hence Maul is not REALLY back.

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1094.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi459%2Fthe19thhistory%2FWhy%2FSheldon.gif&hash=1aaa779481a68ea2c084a519c9f18db67b5b563e)
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Corran Horn on October 14, 2011, 01:56:42 PM
Well said my friend.

And well illustrated lol.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Drazel O'Thumos on October 14, 2011, 02:05:12 PM
Wow. Very well said.  And may I also add, "Could someone get us a new thesaurus? Forcepractitioner just wore a hole through ours."

Lol.

Lol.  :)  Sorry about the possible neologisms or awkward expressions I used in the explanation of my argument, but you have to keep in mind that English is not my native language. Anyway, the important thing is that what I wrote was understandable, isn't it?  ;)

Oh and, I also agree with what Jm419 has just written about the notable contrast between these two fictional universes. I also share the legitimate concerns about the lack of identifiable narrative continuity and rigor in many parts of the "expanded universe", even if I appreciate the various attempts at producing narratives of the physical (ageing, wounds, "memories of the flesh", so to say) and mental (emotional evolution, contrasting mental representations that some characters had of the same past events, "traces of the mind" ) evolution of some "key" characters of the Old Trilogy. For instance, the few comics depicting Vader's mental torment and evolution between Episode 3 and Episode 4....that is interesting. They should have done the same for Obi-Wan in exile on Tatooine, pondering about the past and the future, etc.... I like when there is a meaningful introspection carried out in the characters' consciousness and conscience, and a useful depiction of something that gives perspective about what is visible and accepted as "canon" in the movies. Now, I fear that reviving Darth Maul will just be a mere useless trick and a lame excuse to produce spectacular fighting effects (the idea exploited in the Visionaries comics of a revival of Darth Maul had a --very small-- introspective interest, but on the whole, it was simply not plausible to revive him in that way)...
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: WEDGE ANTILLES on October 14, 2011, 02:13:13 PM
the clone wars is but a walking shadow of the real SW.  a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more. (we watch it one time, and nobody will even remember the plotlines in 10 years).  it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on October 14, 2011, 02:32:25 PM
Whether we like it or not the "dead is dead" boat had already sailed in 1977 the moment that Alec Guinness uttered the phrase "CLONE Wars" establishing the existence of cloning in "The Galaxy" long ago and far far away.

That was the fatal flaw that right that moment set the stage for the "never say die" EU.

Consider an alternative; what if Old Ben had said "DROID Wars" instead of "Clone Wars".

No cloning; dead is dead. No cloned Emperor. No Luuke. People die and don't come back.

And it would have added 'gravitas' to the roles of Threepio and Artoo who could have become more than mere 'comic relief'; what was their part in the Droid Wars that led them to being on the Tantive that fateful day? Why are they involved in the OT with the Rebellion? Do they have a hidden droid agenda? The prequels begin similarly to TPM with autonomy minded Separatist battleDROIDS invading Naboo and ending with Mauls death that is permanent. AOTC becomes AOTD: Attack Of The Droids and there is no need for Dooku since Darth Grievous appears in Ep II instead of out of the blue [cinema-wise] in ROTS. ROTS ends with Anakin becoming in effect a droid as Vader. The living beings of the Galaxy who have recently thrown over the Republic and Jedi who defended Droid Rights to install the anti-droid Empire that put down the 'Droid Wars' uprising know they need droids as 'slave labour' but distrust, fear or hate droids...suddenly displays of insubordination on the Death Star and Cloud City against droid-like Vader seems an understandable emotion not suicidal stupidity. "We don't serve their kind here" takes on new meaning as does "these are not the droids you're looking for". etc etc etc

Even if you don't like this idea then come up with another but it avoids the pitfalls of cloning foremost among which is an 'easy out' from dead-is-dead eh?

Point is...the precedent for bringing back EVERYONE was set by Old Ben in '77 and simply saying "we only like/count the OT" doesnt avoid that.

Next up...Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru reborn! LOLOLOL
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Drazel O'Thumos on October 14, 2011, 02:39:24 PM
the clone wars is but a walking shadow of the real SW.  a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more. (we watch it one time, and nobody will even remember the plotlines in 10 years).  it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Very witty and shakespearian observation.  ;) :D It is true that Clone Wars was made for kids and, unlike Macbeth or the StW movies, was more "light-hearted" in its spirit and was not meant as the depiction of a fateful tragedy.... but even a shadow should rigorously fit the outline of the real object that it represents...
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: WEDGE ANTILLES on October 14, 2011, 03:04:08 PM
just for the sake of example..  like I said in the other thread..  jar jar and dooku share the same dramatic purpose.  jar jar is to padme, as doku is to qui-gon:  jar jar shows us the slippery slope of padme's "Militarization of Naboo" decision from TPM, when he imitates her decision, and raises a motion to Militarize the Galaxy --   dooku shows us the slippery slope of (what yoda called) "QuiGon's Defiance" when he creates the separatist movement.  

--> DOOKU has a purpose in the larger story.   Maul doesn't.     Maul is cannon fodder, for Obiwan's lightsaber.    he's a useless villian: his only "use" was to die.  he's a mustache-twirling stereotypical 'bad guy', with no plot relevance, except to die at obiwan's blade.    he was completely expendable.



again, for the sake of example.. the thing that made Vader the most iconic villian of ALL time, was the fact that he was both luke's father and Ben's personal nemesis.  in the end, the entire saga was about him.   you can't question his relevance to the plot.

...but Maul?  pfft.  obiwan didn't even KNOW him.  he wasn't a personal nemesis.  he was an extension of palpatine.  (like Don Corleone's hitman: did that guy even HAVE a name?  did anybody even care?).    palpatine was the REAL villian.  he was an actual "Character" in the overall drama of the saga.   maul was just a tool.   he served no dramatic purpose in forwarding the plot.    I wouldn't even call him a "character", in that sense.

Palpatine could have easily done his "wet work" himself.   killed quigon, had a confrontation with obiwan, and then escaped.  the only reason to even include Maul, IS, so he can die.   that WAS his only purpose. LOL!  (and now they took it away)



Dooku, Vader, Palpatine ..  these villians were actual characters in the play.   they had a purpose in forwarding the plot.  etc.  
(Vader and Palpatine are the top 2 most iconic villians of all time.   right next to Holmes' Moriority).  

--> unless they can give us a plot-relevant reason to bring Maul back in the saga between episodes 2 and 3 (when clone wars takes place) then this is just "Sound and Fury, signifying nothing" :\  

this 'character' will never be relevant to the saga. :(




THAT's my story, and I'm sticking to it ;) hehe

  
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Drazel O'Thumos on October 14, 2011, 03:10:31 PM

That was the fatal flaw that right that moment set the stage for the "never say die" EU.

Consider an alternative; what if Old Ben had said "DROID Wars" instead of "Clone Wars".


It is funny that you mention that, because in the french translation (in the 1977 version of ANH), when Obi Wan tells Luke about his former role as a Jedi knight in a past conflict, Luke replies: " Ben, tu as fait la Guerre Noire?", which, in English, means : "Ben, you were involved in the Black War?"  ::)..... When I was younger and that only the Old Trilogy was available, I always wondered why this mysterious war was called "la Guerre Noire" (The Black War): it is not an apt translation of Clone Wars, but it remains quite neutral as to the content of the war (at that time, when only the OT was available, judging by the bizarre french translation, it could have been anything : a conflict involving clones, droids, aliens, a disease - like in the expression "Black Plague" etc....)  :-\ ;)
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on October 14, 2011, 03:51:26 PM
It could be a thread of its own eh? But I didnt want to threadjack this one simply intended an example of how Old Ben could have said something else that would have avoided the existence of cloning and thus kept dead-is-dead as a guiding principle that imo would have been better than repeatedly bringing back should-be-dead characters [in this case Maul] simply as el cheapo 'fan service'.

I'm with Wedge that Maul's ONLY purpose was to die by Obi's hand...this robs him of his raison d'etre and cheapens the character just so fans can see a bit more of a character who has now been devalued?

Bad thinking and stupid decision imo.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Darth Xylon on October 14, 2011, 04:38:41 PM
I think Maul could have been relevant if Lucas gave us the chance to see more of him then obviously what is coming up next year, Lucas himself stated that killing him off to soon was a bad idea and which i agree b/c i love Maul, hes my favorite character. You can't make a character relevant if you only give him 3 lines and like 4 seconds of screen time just to have him "killed" off in the end. If he could have just lived in TPM i'm sure we would have saw more of him in a bigger light, i'm glad hes not dead, i honestly think they're gonna make this work somehow and i feel Lucas is bringing him back for justice all those years ago for having him "die" at his beginning and who knows, perhaps he'll live throughout the clone wars and with this so called live action series coming (if it ever does) he'll put maul in that and then we'll get to see the real Darth Maul and not this clone wars version.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Corran Horn on October 14, 2011, 04:50:58 PM
Wow. Very well said.  And may I also add, "Could someone get us a new thesaurus? Forcepractitioner just wore a hole through ours."

Lol.

Lol.  :)  Sorry about the possible neologisms or awkward expressions I used in the explanation of my argument, but you have to keep in mind that English is not my native language. Anyway, the important thing is that what I wrote was understandable, isn't it?  ;)


Actually you misunderstood. I was really impressed by how articulate your statement was.  Very well done.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Drazel O'Thumos on October 14, 2011, 05:25:17 PM
Oh ok, thank you for the compliment then.  ;) :D
I was glad to take part in this pleasant  little discussion.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: General Veers on October 14, 2011, 07:06:05 PM
This is getting out of hand. 

Let's look at perhaps the other most successful movie franchise around, Harry Potter.  Rowling seems to get it far more than Lucas ever did.

For one thing, there's the EU.  Personally, I think the Star Wars EU (really, fan fiction) is in general, very badly done.  Chaotic storylines crisscrossing everywhere immediately after the Battle of Endor are one thing, but do we really need to hear about the further further adventures of our heroes?  Sure, the EU licensing has made Lucas a bundle, but frankly, the entire universe is becoming hard to follow if you consider anything other than the six films to be canon, and even those are a little out of perfect continuity.  Really, the OT is what defines Star Wars for a lot of people.  Only the OT.  These other writers have vastly changed Lucas' universe, and not for the better, I'd have to say.  Cloning, Luke getting married, the Solo Children, Ahsoka - sure, people love these characters, but I think it's both laughable and pathetic at the same time.

Rowling, on the other hand, has steadfastly refused to allow anyone to write fan fiction - and as such, her story is her story, without any EU equivalent.  She has defined what she wanted her world to be, and as such, she can make her own rules.  There's a reason, though, that she has one of her main characters say, "No spell can awaken the dead," or something along those lines.  Dead is dead, and that means dead.  It also means world balance; if you think about it, no one would ever die.  Say your spouse dies; no problem, just go out and clone another one.  Bad speeder crash?  No problem!  It removes consequences from life - and to have death be permanent, well, that defines the world in the only way we know how to define it.

This is just another example of Lucas' foolishness, or greed.  Maul was cool, whatever, but now he's dead.  He should just stay dead - or else, there are a lot of unpleasant implications for Star Wars at large.
I'd like to take a quote from George Lucas and just re word it.
He basically said, in an interview that Luke doesn't get married, the Emporer doesn't get cloned, etc. All of the so called EU storylines are, in George's mind, nothing more than fan fiction that NEVER happened.

GV
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Corran Horn on October 14, 2011, 07:22:37 PM
I'd like to take a quote from George Lucas and just re word it.
He basically said, in an interview that Luke doesn't get married, the Emporer doesn't get cloned, etc. All of the so called EU storylines are, in George's mind, nothing more than fan fiction that NEVER happened.

GV

I believe the actual line is in Wedge's sig
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: General Veers on October 14, 2011, 07:35:45 PM
Indeed.
"Star Wars is really the story of the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emporer doesn't get cloned, and Luke doesn't get married..."
-George Lucas



GV
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Corran Horn on October 14, 2011, 07:39:31 PM
Indeed.
"Star Wars is really the story of the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emporer doesn't get cloned, and Luke doesn't get married..."
-George Lucas



GV

I love that quote, it's so simple and straight to the point.  Sort of like GL telling everyone, stuff it, it's MY story. I'll do what I want with it.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Luke S. on October 14, 2011, 07:53:10 PM
If maul is coming back this is what I'd like to see.

First off, an honest to goodness special edition.  Dont add a wamprat here and there.  Reshoot key scenes. Let Obi wan wound maul but instead let maul escape down the shaft.  He could then reemerge to fight in the other prequels.

At the same time edit out 85% of jar jar and we'd have a truly precious prequel worthy of the saga.

But not this way.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: General Veers on October 14, 2011, 07:55:05 PM
If maul is coming back this is what I'd like to see.

First off, an honest to goodness special edition.  Dont add a wamprat here and there.  Reshoot key scenes. Let Obi wan wound maul but instead let maul escape down the shaft.  He could then reemerge to fight in the other prequels.

At the same time edit out 85% of jar jar and we'd have a truly precious prequel worthy of the saga.

But not this way.
Then what about Dooku in AOTC and ROTS?

GV
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Big Boss on October 14, 2011, 08:10:54 PM
All your opinions are well said and good. I just want maul to come back since he was such a cool and unknown character like boba fett ,but the thing that bugs me the most is if they were going to bring maul back why in the heck do we need savage oppress? Wasn't he suppose to be the weak replacement for maul in the saga? So as i see it the sith are divided with palatine, dooku and grievous as one group Ventress with the nightsisters in another and then there is savage and maul. My guess is Maul is going to take savage on as his apprentice that way maul can get in the spotlight and train savage to use the dark side in a more controlled manner.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Luke S. on October 14, 2011, 09:01:44 PM
If maul is coming back this is what I'd like to see.

First off, an honest to goodness special edition.  Dont add a wamprat here and there.  Reshoot key scenes. Let Obi wan wound maul but instead let maul escape down the shaft.  He could then reemerge to fight in the other prequels.

At the same time edit out 85% of jar jar and we'd have a truly precious prequel worthy of the saga.

But not this way.
Then what about Dooku in AOTC and ROTS?

GV

Just make him an evil apprentice of Palp.  Maul is sith and  the sith in waiting.  Remove any verbiage pertaining to dolly being sith until yoda meets him.  Let maul have at least one more movie.  Better yet one and a half.  Kill him off at the last second. Or have a break away from the sith tradition of master and apprentice only.  You could even add that into a final battle scene where maul and dooku are their own undoing.

I'm sure there are other ways to change it up.  Better one than I have.  Either way they all would overshadow the rebirth of maul.  Half man..half..well....man.  Maybe they could beam him into the clone wars and beam his rear on backwards like President Screwb on Spaceballs.  :D. Honestly as crazy as that sounds if would fit right in with this rewriting of the story.  They really out to consider Suans Lucci as this years latest voice over.  I'm sure she could give the writers plenty of soap opera angles to bring people back from death.


It could be done.

Like I said before.  It doesn't really matter to me because the Clone Wars are not REALLY star Wars but just a silly cartoon.  I havent gone past season one yet by half.  ;D
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: WEDGE ANTILLES on October 14, 2011, 11:44:31 PM
it could be done.  there's room for another meant-to-be-killed-by-obiwan 'villian' in ROTS.   grievous.

what the heck is he anyways?  half droid, half ..  maul?  

and why is he so "grievous"?  perhaps he was (nearly) killed by obiwan, and then, came back for more?

THAT would be a great story.
 
 

--> THATs how you bring back Darth Maul :   tell the story of how he was turned into Grievous.  include saga-relevant plot points, like the one where cyborgs are less force-sensitive than they were before they 'died' -- this would explain why vader had less control of the force, once his body became half-machine (which was touched on somewhere in the EU, although I must admit, I'm not sure where).   that would be an awesome backstory.  it would make BOTH grievous AND Maul more 'relevant' as characters;  together, as one character, they would be Obi-wan's personal nemesis. the tragedy of the character would be, the Cost of Revenge.  also, if Maul had been somehow 'salvaged' and turned into the grievous cyborg, then this would foreshadow anakin's fate, when he gets turned into a cyborg himself at the end of ROTS -- it would show how palpatine doesn't let his apprentice die, he'll turn you into a cyborg first, and you will serve him even after 'death'..  (which drives home the idea of how anakin "died" and was replaced by vader, so old Ben WAS right, from a certain point of view.   this could all be reinforced, if Maul was really the Grievous cyborg) ..and Maul would have a purpose now:  to foreshadow vader's fate.  

it could be done ;)

it wouldn't even change the movies in any way.   Maul is still Maul; he still gets cut in half.   Grievous is still grievous, he still coughs and gets shot in the chest.  

--> just insert a flashback episode between ep1 and ep2, where Maul gets rescued/resurrected and stuck into a hideous android body, because palps won't give up his pet project.  he'd be like robocop...  but the SIth Version of robocop. ;)

every character needs a backstory, afterall :  this is how I've always imagined Grievous anyways -- he's the resurrected corpse of DArth MAul.  

they both had the same "Purpose" : they were cannon fodder for obiwan's lightsaber  :-\  (they might as well be the same character).
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: vulcan fox on October 15, 2011, 01:58:30 AM
darth maul... general grievous .?...that dosent work for me, both have completely different speech patterns and although  grievous state's in ROTS that he was trained in the jedi arts by dooku and i suppose it might be possible that dooku could also have trained maul, lets not forget that dooku was quite aged, that theory would ignore the RULE OF TWO. who was it that said .. always two there are no more no less.? ;)
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Drazel O'Thumos on October 15, 2011, 02:21:35 AM
Yes, moreover Grievous' eyes are VERY different from those of Darth Maul. Even if we relish in speculation for the sake of it, and even if we put aside the known and established fact that Grievous was a Kaleesh warrior prior to his surgical reconstruction as a cyborg (cf the Visionaries comic - hence the tribal aspect of Grievous' mask), the hypothesis that Grievous could have been Darth Maul cannot stand : 1/the eye structure (the reptile-like form of its pupil) and the skin colour (a dark brown with tiny speckles, if I remember well), which are visible in the Episode 3 (in a climatic close up sequence), are not those of a Zabrak; 2/the cybernetic replacements of Grievous (including all his vital organs, but even his arms, his neck and possibly a large part of his head...etc) would not correspond to what Maul would have needed to be operational/viable again.  ;) :)
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: General Veers on October 15, 2011, 07:22:08 AM
Yes, moreover Grievous' eyes are VERY different from those of Darth Maul. Even if we relish in speculation for the sake of it, and even if we put aside the known and established fact that Grievous was a Kaleesh warrior prior to his surgical reconstruction as a cyborg (cf the Visionaries comic - hence the tribal aspect of Grievous' mask), the hypothesis that Grievous could have been Darth Maul cannot stand : 1/the eye structure (the reptile-like form of its pupil) and the skin colour (a dark brown with tiny speckles, if I remember well), which are visible in the Episode 3 (in a climatic close up sequence), are not those of a Zabrak; 2/the cybernetic replacements of Grievous (including all his vital organs, but even his arms, his neck and possibly a large part of his head...etc) would not correspond to what Maul would have needed to be operational/viable again.  ;) :)
All of this is easily changed in, like LUKE said, a special addition.
GV
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Corran Horn on October 15, 2011, 07:36:12 AM
Ah, yes, but you can't definitively say what Maul would've needed to have reconstructed.  We never saw where or how hard, he landed.  We don't know what was at the bottom, or what he hit before hitting bottom.  Erego, anything could've been damaged.  Those energy gates and couplers all over that reactor were pretty nasty work.  Who knows how many he came across on the way down.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Luke S. on October 15, 2011, 07:53:15 AM
I can see it now.  star Wars has been reduced to a soap opera meets 80's B movie. 

Mando, TK, Jason Maul anyone?

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi168.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu187%2Ftimeman1%2Fstar%2520wars%2F100_3310.jpg&hash=df4a4caa9f8da6814db86066755f80f30f62f118)
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Drazel O'Thumos on October 15, 2011, 08:04:58 AM
Ah, yes, but you can't definitively say what Maul would've needed to have reconstructed.  We never saw where or how hard, he landed.  We don't know what was at the bottom, or what he hit before hitting bottom.  Erego, anything could've been damaged.  Those energy gates and couplers all over that reactor were pretty nasty work.  Who knows how many he came across on the way down.

Well, yes, that's correct: you're right. We all know that all this is pure speculation. Judging by what is clearly seen in the film, yet, there are two obvious wounds: 1/a sliced body (right through the abdomen region, thus leaving the thorax - and the lungs and heart- intact); 2/a most probably broken neck (if I remember well, we see Maul's head hitting violently the wall of the shaft and causing him to bounce, while his two "parts" are falling).
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: ANAKIN SKYWALKER on October 15, 2011, 08:06:13 AM
His arms are flailing about as he falls though.  Just sayin. 

Just watched the scene like 20 times on youtube.  it looks like his left shoulder hits the wall.  I could be wrong, but that's what I see. 
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Corran Horn on October 15, 2011, 08:12:04 AM
Ya, it always looked to me like his neck stretched out in a weird way and his head sort of flopped around a little, but I always put that down to laziness in the animation department.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Wariwen on October 15, 2011, 08:12:20 AM
I can not find the physical text but Dont I remeber maul coming back to kill luke and obi shows him whats up one more time.  IN that scene he had mechanical legs? anyone else remeber which of the comics that came out of?
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: ANAKIN SKYWALKER on October 15, 2011, 08:13:40 AM
Maul went to tatooine to find obi and used luke to draw him out of hiding.  Don't remember which comic it was though.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Drazel O'Thumos on October 15, 2011, 08:14:27 AM
Yes, that's right, too... neck, spinal bone, arms and shoulders possibly broken, then...but a broken arm can be easily fixed..... Well we will settle that question by saying that in any case, what is for sure is that after such a tragic event, he was only half the man/Zabrak he used to be.  ;) :D
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: harcopolo2 on October 15, 2011, 08:17:33 AM
You know I always thought maul could have survived, he could have used the force to slow his decent or clutched onto something much like luke does in cloud city...
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Drazel O'Thumos on October 15, 2011, 08:25:27 AM
Maul went to tatooine to find obi and used luke to draw him out of hiding.  Don't remember which comic it was though.

It was in Star Wars Visionaries. There, Maul is depicted as a reconstructed half-cybernetic being with a minerva (much like Vader) and entirely robotic from the waist to the feet. It is also implied that he isn't any more Palpatine's servant : his obsession with Obi Wan and his lust for revenge led him to abandon his former identity, to give up his former assignement, and to endlessly follow the track of Obi Wan on Mustafar, on Poliss Nada and eventually on Tatooine where he ruthlessly killed the troidarian slave-merchant who "traded" Anakin before being led to the house of Luke's foster parents (I much enjoyed the death of this character : Maul should have visited Naboo and killed a few Gungans too!  ;D >:()
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: vulcan fox on October 15, 2011, 08:53:14 AM
its all getting to complicated .? :D
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Fetts Vett on October 15, 2011, 10:27:26 AM
*sigh* The Clone Wars...
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on October 15, 2011, 11:49:59 AM
Watch the end of TPM again...Obi has his own lightsaber back during QGJs funeral. Which means either he or somebody else had to have retrieved it from the bottom of that shaft where it fell just minutes before Maul...wouldnt that person have NOTICED if Mauls body wasn't there too?

Furthermore a human[oid] body is basically, in the words of That Other Franchise, a "bag of water". A pressurized bag of water [blood] at that. If a person falls a LONG way down a hole/shaft they don't just die, they SPLAT like a water balloon. Not something anyone retreiving Obi's saber would miss, and equally conspicuous if the 'mess' was absent. And not nearly enough Maul left intact to just graft mechanical legs back onto.

Even in the SW Galaxy the physics of high velocity falling body impact versus the viscoelastic limit of humanoid musculoskeletal structure = no Maul
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: ANAKIN SKYWALKER on October 15, 2011, 12:12:22 PM
I don't think that really says much.  If you watch closely the mace vs sidious duel, sidious has anakin's saber, but they changed the scene from sidious taking anakin's saber to anakin coming in during the fight.  That was probably just an accident.  They probably thought to have maul kick obi's saber down the shaft after they shot the funeral scene.  IIRC it says obi never retrieved his saber and made an identical one after he lost his second on geonosis.  I can type out the article if you want. 
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Drazel O'Thumos on October 15, 2011, 01:16:58 PM
Watch the end of TPM again...Obi has his own lightsaber back during QGJs funeral. Which means either he or somebody else had to have retrieved it from the bottom of that shaft where it fell just minutes before Maul...wouldnt that person have NOTICED if Mauls body wasn't there too?

Furthermore a human[oid] body is basically, in the words of That Other Franchise, a "bag of water". A pressurized bag of water [blood] at that. If a person falls a LONG way down a hole/shaft they don't just die, they SPLAT like a water balloon. Not something anyone retreiving Obi's saber would miss, and equally conspicuous if the 'mess' was absent. And not nearly enough Maul left intact to just graft mechanical legs back onto.

Even in the SW Galaxy the physics of high velocity falling body impact versus the viscoelastic limit of humanoid musculoskeletal structure = no Maul

I fully agree with your bio-physical analysis (in the SW universe, their basic physical and biological laws are the same as ours indeed), and with your relevant remark about the possible implications of retrieving Obi Wan's saber at the bottom of the shaft, but I cannot remember seeing that detail about Obi Wan's saber, during the funeral pyre scene... Maybe he just decided to build another identical one after that fight.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Protosaber on October 15, 2011, 01:55:40 PM
I the novelization, Obi is supposed to have adopted Qui Gon's saber during the funeral. There is a line during the funeral scene; "Qui Gon's lightsaber, now his own, hung on Obi Wan's belt." or some such. So I'm not sure about the continuity of him having it at the funeral.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: ANAKIN SKYWALKER on October 15, 2011, 02:03:46 PM
I just watched the funeral and the celebration scenes and I can't see his saber anywhere.  his robe is covering it.  I'll pop in the bluray later to be sure. 
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Juansith on October 15, 2011, 02:11:20 PM
Tpm was just in tnt, i watched the last scenes and i never saw Qui lightsaber on Obi.
Proof that the novelizations are a joke.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: ANAKIN SKYWALKER on October 15, 2011, 02:14:57 PM
yeah, but I'm saying obi didn't have his saber either. 
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: nartules on October 15, 2011, 02:32:08 PM
I saw a guy get run over by a truck..(his own by the way) twice.  He didn't die/or have internal bleeding.  Just a few scrapes and bruises.

Anakin was set on fire form the heat of lava and burned like a sausage smoking on a semi trucks overheated engine...he lived.  The only thing I have to say is, if Maul ended up surviving his fall (Like Luke does in the original trilogy) then why can't a Guy who got his arm cut off and thrown from a building live too.

Mace was to tough to die...you can't kill shaft and there were no snakes on the intergalactic star cruiser!  Anyways back on point in the star wars universe a force user can still be cast as living until someone stands over there body and pronounces them dead, or they dissapear from their robes.  If you don't see the body, you can't say there dead.  Plus we see Maul throwing his arms around wildly the whole time he is dissapearing down the shaft, proof that he wasn't dead at the beginning of the fall and that being cut in half by a lightsaber wasn't enough to do him in on its own.

Now...the staff writing the Clone wars better come up with a decent explanation of how he survived, I hope they show a clip of him falling/snagging himself on a bit of metal and or/being removed by some type of machine to take him into a recovery chamber of some sort.  So I like the idea of Maul returning, I just hope the writers do a good job of explaining how he survived and he better not have any biological legs.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Drazel O'Thumos on October 15, 2011, 02:59:27 PM
There seems to be a collectible statue of the post-TPM Darth Maul as he is depicted in the "Old Wounds" story in the "Visionaries" comic strip :

         :o ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Luke S. on October 15, 2011, 03:27:07 PM
he better not have any biological legs.


My money's on Grievous legs.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Juansith on October 15, 2011, 03:50:18 PM
Deus ex machina
Nuff said  ;)
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Drazhar on October 15, 2011, 04:03:01 PM
Movie: they filmed the funeral and the procession after the fight before the fight. The prop was on his belt.

Reality: he freaking lost that thing down a shaft.

YAY MOVIES!
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Corran Horn on October 15, 2011, 04:46:13 PM
There seems to be a collectible statue of the post-TPM Darth Maul as he is depicted in the "Old Wounds" story in the "Visionaries" comic strip :

         :o ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

I have to say though, the cyborg Maul has one seriously sweet saber staff.  I'd love to see that one in production.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: vargose on October 20, 2011, 03:43:58 PM
I loved the Visionaries comic. I hope Darth Maul looks exactly like that. All Grevious has left is organs. So its perfectly acceptable to me for Darth Maul to have survived. He was an awesome character. I always felt he should have been in the other two prequal episodes.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Darksaber 3 on October 20, 2011, 07:33:41 PM
it could be done.  there's room for another meant-to-be-killed-by-obiwan 'villian' in ROTS.   grievous.

what the heck is he anyways?  half droid, half ..  maul?  

and why is he so "grievous"?  perhaps he was (nearly) killed by obiwan, and then, came back for more?

THAT would be a great story.
 
 

--> THATs how you bring back Darth Maul :   tell the story of how he was turned into Grievous.  include saga-relevant plot points, like the one where cyborgs are less force-sensitive than they were before they 'died' -- this would explain why vader had less control of the force, once his body became half-machine (which was touched on somewhere in the EU, although I must admit, I'm not sure where).   that would be an awesome backstory.  it would make BOTH grievous AND Maul more 'relevant' as characters;  together, as one character, they would be Obi-wan's personal nemesis. the tragedy of the character would be, the Cost of Revenge.  also, if Maul had been somehow 'salvaged' and turned into the grievous cyborg, then this would foreshadow anakin's fate, when he gets turned into a cyborg himself at the end of ROTS -- it would show how palpatine doesn't let his apprentice die, he'll turn you into a cyborg first, and you will serve him even after 'death'..  (which drives home the idea of how anakin "died" and was replaced by vader, so old Ben WAS right, from a certain point of view.   this could all be reinforced, if Maul was really the Grievous cyborg) ..and Maul would have a purpose now:  to foreshadow vader's fate.  

it could be done ;)

it wouldn't even change the movies in any way.   Maul is still Maul; he still gets cut in half.   Grievous is still grievous, he still coughs and gets shot in the chest.  

--> just insert a flashback episode between ep1 and ep2, where Maul gets rescued/resurrected and stuck into a hideous android body, because palps won't give up his pet project.  he'd be like robocop...  but the SIth Version of robocop. ;)

every character needs a backstory, afterall :  this is how I've always imagined Grievous anyways -- he's the resurrected corpse of DArth MAul.  

they both had the same "Purpose" : they were cannon fodder for obiwan's lightsaber  :-\  (they might as well be the same character).


Wedge, can I just say that this whole "Grievous is Maul" thing was my big theory for where he came from? Its also why I figured he had the yellow eyes, and seemed to enjoy killing the Jedi so much, and collecting their lightsabers. Also, we all know Maul was a "the more blades, the better" type of guy. That would also help explain the whole 4 lightsabers thing that Grievous used.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Drazel O'Thumos on October 21, 2011, 04:41:15 AM
......but the problem with this theory (apart from the fact that it since has  been confirmed and established that Grievous was a Kaleesh warrior before his accident, and not a Zabrak) is that (when seen on various close ups in the Episode 3) the eye structure of Grievous (especially the shape of the pupil) and its skin (brownish tint with speckles) aren't those of a Zabrak, and in any case certainly not those of Darth Maul...  ;) :)
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: LadySythe on October 21, 2011, 05:37:14 PM
I'm not going to wade through 7 plus pages.

I'm a serious Darth Maul fan. Im even a member of the Darth Maul Estrogen Brigade. We've accepted that Maul was split in half and plunged into the deeps of the Theed power generator. I was disgusted when they did that Else Worlds Cyber Maul. And I am cringing at the sight of how they made him look.

See, I'm one of those women who...well, think Darth Maul is friggin HHOOTT lol I've even had to the pleasure of meeting Ray Park, and in all my Sith costumes, I have his nose diamond design either painted on my face and it's on my mask sculpted from Sculpy. I collect almost anything Darth Maul (you should have seen my collection before my ex best friend stole 75% of it, them my mom flake on our storage unit  >:() and I write fan fiction where he's a supporting character majority of the time. I've always held the thought that Maul could have survived - he's Zabrak who have mental abilities, stubborn, gifted in the Force and extremely determined to never fail. Failure would mean death. He could have been able to get himself rescued. But then again, I believe he was only hit - not bisected, in the mid section like was in the novel adaptation of TPM.

Anyway, imho, they should leave Maul to us fan fic writers and should never has brought in the Maul wanna-be. There is only one Darth Maul.

BUT I'll watch it out of curiousity.

I hate those tree branch horns they stuck on him...
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: LordMalgus on October 23, 2011, 05:59:53 PM
I agree with Shaak Ti regarding the pure dark awesomeness that is Darth Maul, well everything except the Hot part ;D.  BUT.... it depends on how he comes back.  If it is lame than Im going to just assume it is about $$$$$ and marketing.....nothing else.  Going to be tough to do....I mean he looked pretty done to me that last time I saw him (both parts of him)......
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Luke S. on October 23, 2011, 07:19:23 PM
This entire thread reminds me of why I.......ahem enjoy watching STNG much better than SW.  STNG had some issues but overall it was great story telling.

One example.  Look at how they continued to develop the character of Data.  Brent ended up playing four different characters of himself AND pulled it off masterfully.

The whole storyline of LORE became a fan favorite.

They killed off Tashia Yar in the first season yet brought her back in another fan favorite, Yesterdays Enterprise.

Every time they could have "jumped the shark" they end up creating a fan favorite.

STNG lacked big budget effects yet has great story telling and wins out because of it.

Star Wars lacks character development and just goes for big budget effects and a loose story.  The OT had a great story to it. And even the entire series has a great story of Anakin and his fall and redemption.  That is where it ends though.  They should have tapped more into personal characters and the overall traits of humanity.


Please be gentle in your abuse to me.  Could I ask you to at least set your phasers to stun?   :D
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Sandpeople are people too on October 23, 2011, 07:40:24 PM
I generally agree with Luke on this front; STNG does a great job of story telling, and generally makes decent social comentary, and while it shot itself in the foot with some of the movies (especially with proto-data of ST Nemesis).  The episode "tapestry" is perhaps the finest example of the story and character development.

ST reminds me of Bradbury, and Asimov reminds me of SW; ST and Ray tell great stories, in which the science is the vehicle and the story is the point, while SW and Issac have ok to good stories/characters, with iconic bits (Law of Robotics and Lightsabers), yet the story seems secondary at times.  Sweeping generalizations, I know, yet it's merely my opinion. 

No, I don't own ST memorabilia.
Yes, I own lots of SW memorabilia.

 And back to the thread, they ought to have left Maul dead.  Pointless, unnecessary, and pointless; wasn't Savage Oppress enough of a back-hand to the community?  So many more directions to explore- why dig this up?
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Luke S. on October 23, 2011, 07:51:22 PM

No, I don't own ST memorabilia.
Yes, I own lots of SW memorabilia.



+1   ;)
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: QUI-GON JINN on October 23, 2011, 07:58:05 PM
Agreed,  LUKE. ST:TNG is still my favorite ST series.  I personally loved the way they worked old characters from TOS into the "present time frame," as well.  Like when they discovered Captain Scott "stored" inside a transporter buffer on the U.S.S Jenolan. ;)
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on October 23, 2011, 11:03:09 PM

Please be gentle in your abuse to me.  Could I ask you to at least set your phasers to stun?   :D

Lightsabers have no 'stun' setting muahahaha!

Seriously though I do like ST and you make a valid point that characterization in SW has sometimes been lacking...imo it comes down to GL being a very good 'Worlds-smith' with a strong sense of 'Myth-making' but not so great on the more 'human' aspects of storytelling like certain emotions and serious deficiencies in writing dialogue. ST benefitted from having multiple writers who could cover individual deficiencies whereas GL by not really wanting to create collaboratively did SW no favours from ROTJ on. Sadly he has now declined further into 'fan service' with this.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Drazhar on October 23, 2011, 11:10:25 PM
I, and many others, blame the lack of Marcia.

http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/marcialucas.html
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Green Ranger on October 24, 2011, 01:48:10 AM
I missed something. I thought that in the Emperor's love for cloning he might have cloned Maul. Was this confirmed that he is part cyborg?
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Corran Horn on October 24, 2011, 10:11:42 AM
@Luke:  ST? Really?  I don't even know you anymore.

Lol, just kidding, I was a pretty big TNG fan back in the day.  My roommate is a BIG TNG fan, and so we habe the contant SW vs ST debate.  You are NOT alone.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Luke S. on October 24, 2011, 10:18:29 AM
@Luke:  ST? Really?  I don't even know you anymore.

The only ST item in my house is a communicator pin.  It would require a new thread to list everything in my house that is SW.  I have nor will I ever attend a trek convention nor would I dress up.  I am soon to apply to the RL as Jedi night Kamin Ressik.(subtle nod to STNG with the name) ;)

As for the topic of maul.  I would much rather him be cloned.....sigh.....than return from near death.  I just hate is when writers kill off characters to get the drama and higher ratings only to yank the rug from under you and later say they lived.  :-\
For the record I wouldn't really be happy with a bunch of DM clones running around.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Drazel O'Thumos on November 12, 2011, 05:18:32 PM
It seems likely that, judging by the presence of long horns on his head in the short glimpse that we have of him in the presentation of Clone Wars Season 4, it will either be a Visionaries-style cyborg Darth Maul or a somehow (how??) regenerated but aging Maul (I do not know if it is only a faulty impression caused by the rendering of his traits in 3D animation, but his face seems to be gaunt and slightly elongated):



You can find a clear capture of his head and face here:

http://fashionnaction.blogspot.com/2011/10/its-all-about-maul-star-wars-episode-i.html

Anyway, there are only three possibilities: 1/Darth Maul returning as a cyborg ("he is more machine than Zabrak now"  ::) :-\  hum! ) ; 2/Darth Maul being revived as a clone of the original; 3/ Darth Maul as a ghost emanating from  the darkest planes of the Netherworld of the Force, and being summoned by the Night Sisters or other malicious force-practitioners (remember that he is first seen through a kind of strange crystal ball/sphere...).
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Ven Zallow on November 12, 2011, 07:45:30 PM
Not sure if im happy about him resurfacing. Dont get me wrong Maul is one of, if not the coolest SW character, Im just hoping his personality is at least similar to what its like in TPM. Focused, intense and lets his actions speak for himself.

Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: roland on December 05, 2011, 11:19:01 AM
At last he can have his revenge... or not :P
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Green Ranger on December 05, 2011, 09:45:00 PM
Pretty sure this will be the one chance that Lucas will have to show Sidious' love for Cloning. Take it to the bank
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Luis88 on January 12, 2012, 05:35:46 AM
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet on this thread but it's official, Sam witwer (starkiller) will be voicing darth maul in the final episodes of season 4.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Jaden Korr on February 10, 2012, 02:19:35 PM
Well if this is any indicator I do not think I will approve of the Darth Maul return.

They seem to have turned the silent, deadly, mysterious sith into a psychotic maniac, why must they change what already worked? This feels like a dumbed down version of Maul from TPM.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/02/10/darth-maul-clone-wars-teaser/?ref=nf
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: The_Night on February 10, 2012, 02:31:33 PM
the saddest part of that article? it says he is coming back at the end of season for...

That means theres going to be a season 5!  >:(
http://nooooooooooooooo.com/

i mean come on. rule of 2. lets stick to your own story structure guys. if maul is alive dooku shouldnt be sidious' apprentice. but i guess they already broke the rule of 2 with ventress  :-\
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: LadySythe on February 10, 2012, 03:10:29 PM
I'm not a happy Maul fan. And the horns?! WHY?! Leave a character alone dag nabbit!!  >:(
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Sa`vage Archanas on February 10, 2012, 04:01:31 PM
i don't know.. I was disapointed with tpm for killing him off so quick. no back story on the character no insight into the personality of this particular sith. i am kind of excited to finally get this. and that preview, the anger displayed is kind of what i imagined and expected. now I really want to know what drives it. what darkness lies in his past? what pushed him over the proverbial edge? i mean aside from Obi, lol. I would like to see the rise of darth maul, and how he came to be.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: KI-ADI-MUNDI on February 10, 2012, 07:01:11 PM
the saddest part of that article? it says he is coming back at the end of season for...

That means theres going to be a season 5!  >:(
http://nooooooooooooooo.com/

i mean come on. rule of 2. lets stick to your own story structure guys. if maul is alive dooku shouldnt be sidious' apprentice. but i guess they already broke the rule of 2 with ventress  :-\
they break the rule in the Darth Plagueis story... Sidious is training Maul while he is the apprentice of Plagueis...

Also 5 seasons has always been the plan... 100 episodes is the line that needs to be crossed for all the TV rerun rights and payouts to kick in...
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Luis88 on February 10, 2012, 08:49:18 PM
There's usually a sith in training before there is only 2. There are a lot of sith in training character in the cw. I guess you can only count dooku and sidious as sith. Sidious refers to opress and ventress as 'assassins' a lot during the series.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on February 16, 2012, 10:30:18 AM
Those assassins aren't Sith those are 'Dark Jedi'. The Rule Of Two doesnt prevent Sith from using henchmen [or in Ventress case henchwitch er henchwoman] or even using Force-using henchmen or training them as Dooku did Ventress it just means they are not true Sith, not inducted into the deeper Mysteries of the Sith Order [no need-to-know] and have no claim of succession to Sith 'titles' if their Lord was killed. Thus there is no advantage for a Dark Jedi underling to try to assassinate their Sith master since they can't replace them - this helps keep them loyal or at least removes one incentive for betrayal. A Dark Jedi might hope that if they showed particular competency skill and success and were loyal and useful they might be considered for Sith training if an opening arose but it would be a slim hope...not one any smart person would think worth going up against a fully trained Sith Lord for.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Psab Keel on February 16, 2012, 08:21:31 PM
The way I see it, Darth Maul died in TPM.  And Boba Fett died in ROTJ.  The only reason Lucas is resurrecting the character is because he knows fans love him and wants to justify selling products with Darth Maul's face all over them.  I personally never understood why people loved Fett or Maul so much.  They had cool costumes/ weapons which explains why so many people costume as them, but that's about all.  Not much in the way of character development in the films.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Drazel O'Thumos on February 18, 2012, 05:56:35 PM
There are some subtle new visual clues of what Darth Maul will look like when he "comes back" in the new season of Clone Wars, and.....it seems that it is the cyborg option that is favored: it is neither a clone nor a ghost, he is older, mentally insane, he has the long gloves and the minerva that are those visible in Old Wounds, and I think that you can have a brief glimpse of his cyborg half (hips and legs) if you pause at the right time during the video presentation.

http://nerdbastards.com/2012/02/17/darth-maul-is-returning-on-clone-wars-meet-the-man-behind-the-sith/

 
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Machinimax on February 18, 2012, 06:41:44 PM
There are some subtle new visual clues of what Darth Maul will look like when he "comes back" in the new season of Clone Wars, and.....it seems that it is the cyborg option that is favored: it is neither a clone nor a ghost, he is older, mentally insane, he has the long gloves and the minerva that are those visible in Old Wounds, and I think that you can have a brief glimpse of his cyborg half (hips and legs) if you pause at the right time during the video presentation.

http://nerdbastards.com/2012/02/17/darth-maul-is-returning-on-clone-wars-meet-the-man-behind-the-sith/

 

Witwer does a good job with the voice! I love how he brought up that line the Son said about the chains and what goes on in your mind from the Mortis trilogy. (Especially since the Son was his character. ) I think this is gonna be awesome.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Drazel O'Thumos on February 18, 2012, 06:49:56 PM
Yes indeed, his work on the voice is remarkable. :) The quotation sounded familiar to me as well ;)
I am only wondering how the fact that Maul survived will be explained...(there was a little debate some time ago about that, and I tackled three hypotheses: 1/clone 2/Force ghost 3/cyborg... and it seems that the third one is what prevailed for the new season of Clone Wars :-\ )
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Machinimax on February 18, 2012, 07:18:24 PM
Yes indeed, his work on the voice is remarkable. :) The quotation sounded familiar to me as well ;)
I am only wondering how the fact that Maul survived will be explained...(there was a little debate some time ago about that, and I tackled three hypotheses: 1/clone 2/Force ghost 3/cyborg... and it seems that the third one is what prevailed for the new season of Clone Wars :-\ )

Well there was a non-canon story arc (I think it was in a comic) where Maul comes back looking for Obi-Wan. He finds Kenobi on Tatooine and they have a lightsaber duel. Maul was depicted the same as he is for this with the long horns and cyborg legs.

Here's Maul.
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages2.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20070811133815%2Fstarwars%2Fimages%2Fthumb%2F8%2F84%2FVisionaries_Darth_Maul.jpg%2F262px-Visionaries_Darth_Maul.jpg&hash=5bf8015be29a67fbcb9a49ba3bc758dc41a52463)
You can see he pretty much has the look we're going to see in March.

And here's the duel.
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages2.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20071024225837%2Fstarwars%2Fimages%2Fd%2Fd0%2FOvMVisionaries.jpg&hash=fc5d5116469f6f88c8fa3542d7bdb6eaa97ecc07)

Now keep in mind what I said everybody. These pictures are NON-CANON are were depicted in a "What if" Star Wars story. However I'm sure some of this was used as the basis for the Maul's true return coming soon.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Drazel O'Thumos on February 18, 2012, 07:27:58 PM
Yes, I know this picture  :D It is from the "Old Wounds" story in the Visionaries comic. ;)
My only concern is : how did he survive long enough to be surgically "reconstructed" and cybernetically "enhanced" like that. Someone must have helped him at some point... I find it difficult to imagine him in a state of shock with his severed and cauterized abdomen crawling all the way back from the bottom of the reactor shaft on Theed to his ship in order to escape...

At least, we can deduce what the wound inflicted on him by Obi-Wan was and what it wasn't : Maul's lungs must be intact, but he must have severe kydney and digestive dysfunction now  :-\ (he certainly can't eat in a normal way, and he must be equiped with some kind of device enabling him to evacuate waste...unless he found a way to assimilate nutrients directly by feeding his midichlorians lol)
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Machinimax on February 18, 2012, 07:36:35 PM
Yes, I know this picture  :D It is from the "Old Wounds" story in the Visionaries comic. ;)
My only concern is : how did he survive long enough to be surgically "reconstructed" and cybernetically "enhanced" like that. Someone must have helped him at some point... I find it difficult to imagine him in a state of shock with his severed and cauterized abdomen crawling all the way back from the bottom of the reactor shaft on Theed to his ship in order to escape...

I think those are some questions whose answers will have to wait until March... ;)
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Drazel O'Thumos on February 22, 2012, 05:40:35 AM
Some news....well, actually it's getting even worse than what I thought initially : it seems that Darth Maul will have cybernetic spider-like legs and that he will be amnesic because of a trauma to the head (how convenient! ::))...therefore this might just be a cheap come-back with no clear explanation... ::)

http://www.starwarsreport.com/2012/01/22/darth-mauls-return-to-star-wars-in-the-clone-wars-spoilers-speculation/

I wish we could stop George Lucas ...but I am afraid it is already too late.  :(
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Jaden Korr on February 22, 2012, 07:00:09 AM
Spider body? Mechanical Carriage?

Beyond lame. They should have left it alone. They are going to turn the legacy of a dark and cool character into something laughable.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Drazhar on February 22, 2012, 08:53:57 AM
Not like Clone Wars is canon anyway  ::) ::)
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Gil Gamesh on February 22, 2012, 09:50:07 AM
Hey, I'm all for it!  Clone wars is fun, I'm not too concerned with "cannon" or what have you seeing as this is all CGI anywho.  If it were something like live action or a tv series with real people maybe I could see trying to steer more realistic and storyline whathaveyou, but it's not, so have some fun!

How did the emperor know Anakin was all cut up and a smoldering stump at the end of EPIII?  Probably the same way he knew of Maul's unfortunate situation.  He probably sent his people to go pick up the quivering cauterized lumps of Maul and tried to salvage whatever he could, knowing that all the more HATE filling maul would make him even more powerful.

I kinda dig the idea.  Totally unrealistic but they could have alot of fun with it!  CLOOOONEEEESSS just wanna have FUUUUUUUNNN oooooohyaaaa CLOOOONEEEESSSS just wannna haaaaaave fuuuuuuuunnnn!
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Drazhar on February 22, 2012, 10:04:05 AM
I would have been more OK with the entire Clone Wars concept if there was no Ahsoka.

Flat out statement of the facts of my opinion.

Can't stand that brat.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Nero Attoru on February 22, 2012, 10:51:00 AM
I would have been more OK with the entire Clone Wars concept if there was no Ahsoka.

Flat out statement of the facts of my opinion.

Can't stand that brat.

So basically the solution to this problem is... have Maul KILL Ahsoka!

Maul gets major brownie points from the SW fans, Ahsoka gets killed off (makes fans happy and takes care of her inevitable exodus).  Win win!
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Psab Keel on February 22, 2012, 02:12:39 PM
Maul was cut in half.  I can't suspend my disbelief long enough to buy the idea that anyone could survive that.  It just seems ridiculous.  And don't even get me started on the absurdity of Anakin having an apprentice.  In Episode III they wouldn't give him the rank of master, and yet according to the Clone Wars cartoon he has an apprentice.  Then what exactly does the rank of master mean then?  Plus I saw a preview of an episode where they froze Anakin and Obi-Wan in carbonite to help them infiltrate enemy territory.  This kills any dramatic tension of being frozen in carbonite, rendering the scene with Han in ESB utterly useless.  (That is, if you watch the Clone Wars and consider it canon.)  The whole emotion of that scene is whether or not Han will survive the freezing process.  

But the producers logic is if we do something they did in the original trilogy, especially from Empire, the fans will love it!  Jedi can survive that kind of thing, because according to the prequels Jedi are nearly invincible!  If there is no dramatic tension or conflict, there is no story.  Which means you can have all the battles you want, but if there is no real threat of danger to characters that you care about, then there is no ultimate purpose to watching.  This is why the Clone Wars is crap.  I can't believe how incredibly stupid Star Wars is becoming.

I have no problem with expanding the universe of Star Wars and I have no problem with having a healthy dose of suspension of disbelief, but when you create rules in your universe at least stick to them so there is some kind of logic behind it.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Big Boss on March 01, 2012, 06:41:00 PM
http://www.cartoonnetwork.com/coming-soon/index.html?atclk_hp=hp_b_promo_Card#1
Looks like their going with this version of maul you see him perfectly at the end of this preview going against obi won

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages2.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20070811133815%2Fstarwars%2Fimages%2Fthumb%2F8%2F84%2FVisionaries_Darth_Maul.jpg%2F262px-Visionaries_Darth_Maul.jpg&hash=5bf8015be29a67fbcb9a49ba3bc758dc41a52463)
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Machinimax on March 01, 2012, 06:50:42 PM
http://www.cartoonnetwork.com/coming-soon/index.html?atclk_hp=hp_b_promo_Card#1
Looks like their going with this version of maul you see him perfectly at the end of this preview going against obi won

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages2.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20070811133815%2Fstarwars%2Fimages%2Fthumb%2F8%2F84%2FVisionaries_Darth_Maul.jpg%2F262px-Visionaries_Darth_Maul.jpg&hash=5bf8015be29a67fbcb9a49ba3bc758dc41a52463)

Yes!!!!!! No spider legs!!!
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Drazel O'Thumos on March 05, 2012, 07:47:55 AM
Well, I wish you were right...  :-\  but unfortunately, it seems that when his brother finds him (as he is still living the life of a recluse in a dark cave located on a remote planet of the Outer Rim territories), he does have spider legs :( (this is described in the book and briefly visible in the preview video as well, when Oppress enters the cave and you can see a gloomy shadow with spider legs...)

He is probably equiped with a better bipedal prosthetic apparatus later, since we can indeed see him (at the end of the video) standing on his two robotic legs and equiped with the cybernetic lower half of his abdomen...(just like in the Visionaries comics) ;)
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: darthfoster on March 07, 2012, 08:47:05 PM
We had a s chance to see the episode at the Pre-Screen event "Maul Returns" in San Fransisco/Presidio. It's definitely different than what I expect and actually really like it. Awesome episode :)
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Machinimax on March 09, 2012, 05:33:57 PM
Ok who saw part 1 tonight? LOVED IT!! I wanna see part 2 now. If I don't I may go Darth Maul crazy.........

"Through victory my chains are broken...the chains...the chains are the easy part...it's what goes on in here that's hard...AHHHHHHHH....JEDI!!!!!!!"
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on March 09, 2012, 06:28:45 PM
I didn't like it. I would prefer to remember Darth Maul as the awesome [phantom] menacing Sith Lord that Ray Park portrayed him as...now hes reduced to a weak demented pathetic cyborg arachnid?

"Spider-Maul" is just... ...sad...

Oh and how did Obi-Wan even know his name anyway? I just saw TPM 3D yesterday so I'm quite certain that at no point did Maul ever say his name to QGJ or OWK and no one else ever said it to them...at one point QGJ suggests to the Council that he must be a Sith Lord because of his training and Yoda refers to him as a "Dark warrior" and at the end Yoda and Mace wonder if the Sith have returned whether he was the Master or the Apprentice but they clearly don't know his name. Maybe they could assume he was Darth-something but how would they know the second part was "Maul"?
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Darksaber 3 on March 09, 2012, 06:32:00 PM
I didn't like it. I would prefer to remember Darth Maul as the awesome [phantom] menacing Sith Lord that Ray Park portrayed him as...now hes reduced to a weak demented pathetic cyborg arachnid?

"Spider-Maul" is just... ...sad...

Oh and how did Obi-Wan even know his name anyway? I just saw TPM 3D yesterday so I'm quite certain that at no point did Maul ever say his name to QGJ or OWK and no one else ever said it to them...at one point QGJ suggests to the Council that he must be a Sith Lord because of his training and Yoda refers to him as a "Dark warrior" and at the end Yoda and Mace wonder if the Sith have returned whether he was the Master or the Apprentice but they clearly don't know his name. Maybe they could assume he was Darth-something but how would they know the second part was "Maul"?
On the knowing it was Darth Maul part, maybe they got the name out of the Viceroy? They were told the name by Sidious. But as for bringing him back to life, and the Clone Wars series as a whole... No thank you. George Lucas hasn't made a good movie since Return of the Jedi was finished, as far as I am concerned.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on March 09, 2012, 06:40:07 PM
Your right that Sidious told the Neimodians the name "Darth Maul" but Nute Gunray also knew the name "Darth Sidious" yet even in AOTC [and maybe ROTS] the Jedi Council didn't know that name so clearly Gunray didnt give up Sidious' name so why would he give them Maul's? If he was plea-bargaining he'd rat out the bigger fish to get more favourable terms but if he'd done that then Yoda and Mace wouldnt be wondering which was the Master...and if he didnt rat on Sidious he wouldnt gain anything giving up Maul's name.

I'm not terribly happy with bringing Maul back but I could accept it if he wasn't made to look weak. Why? Just so Daddy's Little Girl's creation Oppress can seem more impressive? Yuk.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: blackluc on March 09, 2012, 06:44:37 PM
I am really disappointed with this...  I mean...  What the xxx was that?

That's not Darth Maul...  That's... something else, something worse than Jar Jar.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Green Ranger on March 09, 2012, 07:29:33 PM
That episode was for a lack of better words. Disappointing. Would have been better if he had been in solitude meditating and focusing in his rage CALMLY with an already layed out plan to take down Obi-wan. I don't foresee the next episode being any better.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: impa on March 09, 2012, 10:00:45 PM
I didn't mind it, it is a cartoon after all. A television series needs to adapt and be watchable by a variety of age dynamics. A Darth Maul with 2 robotic legs or 6.. does it really matter? I think it's a interesting spin on the character. Sure they could have gone in a different direction, but it is what it is. Enjoy it :)
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: WEDGE ANTILLES on March 09, 2012, 10:11:21 PM
anyone else notice it was written by katie lucas?
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on March 09, 2012, 10:40:39 PM
Not only noticed but noted Wedge.

...Why? Just so Daddy's Little Girl's creation Oppress can seem more impressive? Yuk...

More of my opinion on Katie's...um...'writing'...on the "Will Anakin's Padawan Die" thread.

I truly dread the thought that when George kicks the bucket SW may end up in Katie's 'creative' hands.  :(
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: KI-ADI-MUNDI on March 10, 2012, 07:40:00 AM
Not only noticed but noted Wedge.

...Why? Just so Daddy's Little Girl's creation Oppress can seem more impressive? Yuk...

More of my opinion on Katie's...um...'writing'...on the "Will Anakin's Padawan Die" thread.

I truly dread the thought that when George kicks the bucket SW may end up in Katie's 'creative' hands.  :(
I don't know... In the interview with Oprah he said he does not give his kids anything and has no plans to give them anything... If they want something they can work for it like he did....
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: WEDGE ANTILLES on March 10, 2012, 09:56:30 AM
ironic.    considering the hundreds of artists (thousands?)whose "work" he's actually referring to.    ::) (he didn't do it all by himself)
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: PRINCESS LEIA on March 10, 2012, 09:57:45 AM
ironic.    considering the hundreds of artists (thousands?)whose "work" he's actually referring to.    ::) (he didn't do it all by himself)
So very true  :-X
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Green Ranger on March 10, 2012, 12:52:17 PM
If it werent for his buddies loaning him the money, he wouldnt have been able to be where he is he today
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on March 10, 2012, 01:03:17 PM
Not only noticed but noted Wedge.

...Why? Just so Daddy's Little Girl's creation Oppress can seem more impressive? Yuk...

More of my opinion on Katie's...um...'writing'...on the "Will Anakin's Padawan Die" thread.

I truly dread the thought that when George kicks the bucket SW may end up in Katie's 'creative' hands.  :(
I don't know... In the interview with Oprah he said he does not give his kids anything and has no plans to give them anything... If they want something they can work for it like he did....

Right...and he'll give Katie control of Star Wars in his will because of all his kids she is the one who "worked for it" most writing all of those Clone Wars episodes...and Katie will promptly turn Star Wars into magic-fantasy dreck with witches and wizards and spells and voodoo dolls and almost WORSE 'stuff' like spider-borg Sith Lords?

Spider-Maul,
Spider-Maul,
didn't die from a mile fall
Spins no webs,
has crazy laugh,
'cuz Obi-Wan cut him in half...

etc ad nauseum...

...ICK...Unca George must really HATE Star Wars a lot since he apparently wants to let Daddy's Little Girl's dimwitted hack-work DESTROY it...
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: djobitwan7 on March 10, 2012, 01:17:48 PM
Ah, well unbeknownst to us, Maul was never a sith really. I won't elaborate, but it makes sense and it ties in well with TPM and how it turned out.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Green Ranger on March 10, 2012, 03:15:40 PM
In defense of Uncle George and Katie, times have changed and so do people along the way. Had he decided to tell more stories based around the same premise and not actually opening up to new things in this "Expanded Universe", I think it would eventually get dull and boring. It's his legacy, he will do what he wants. And so far, it seems to be working.

This Maul was still bad though.  :-\
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Luis88 on March 10, 2012, 07:59:55 PM
The new darth maul is interesting but his personality is hard to swallow for most big maul and sam witwer fans. I think that this personality would be better off as a brand new villain in the series. For the little screen time maul had in 'brothers', I almost tried to imagine maul as somebody else and not the cloaked assassin from TPM which made This version of maul the most interesting character I can remember being in TCW series.

I haven't given up yet. I'll watch 'revenge' and see what happens, the character still needs to and will develop. The scene with yoda and obi could have been cut, it just didn't work but I guess Katie thinks it's essential for obiwan to be aware that maul is alive so he can be prepared.

*sigh*

I couldn't be happier that maul is back...but to have Katie write has crushed hopes for the last couple of episodes.

Give folino full creative powah!
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Luis88 on March 10, 2012, 08:04:12 PM
Always two there is, a father, and a daughter, to ruin the future of what we love.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on March 10, 2012, 08:38:54 PM
Katies writing is even more pathetic than Spider-Maul.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Jaden Korr on March 10, 2012, 08:47:48 PM
just watched it because i was curious.

Terrible, i said it months ago and they lived up to my prediction.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Machinimax on March 10, 2012, 08:55:44 PM
Oh man. I feel weird being the only here one who liked it .  :D ;D
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Psab Keel on March 10, 2012, 09:24:00 PM
Katie Lucas ruin Star Wars?  That's the funniest thing I think I've ever heard.  Her father already did that YEARS ago.  At this point they should just ruin it further for laughs because it's beyond absurd at this point.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: boshwan527 on March 10, 2012, 09:25:21 PM
Oh man. I feel weird being the only here one who liked it .  :D ;D

well don't because I did too :D
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Luis88 on March 10, 2012, 11:28:30 PM
Oh man. I feel weird being the only here one who liked it .  :D ;D

I liked it. Didn't love it.


Katie seems the type that if she gets fan backlash she will ruin things on purpose. A kid who can't stand the heat.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on March 11, 2012, 01:58:48 AM
Katie Lucas ruin Star Wars?  That's the funniest thing I think I've ever heard.  Her father already did that YEARS ago.  At this point they should just ruin it further for laughs because it's beyond absurd at this point.

And how did that happen? Because Inca George surrounded himself with yes-men and there was no one during the prequel movies with the courage to say "No, thats a BAD IDEA" to The Boss when he thought up things like Jar Jar Binks just as now there is no one during the Clone Wars series with the courage to say "No, thats a BAD IDEA" to The Boss' Daughter when she thinks up things like Spider-Maul, Voodoo doll pinning Sith Lords or Stupide Depresse.

Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Luis88 on March 11, 2012, 03:19:54 AM
The reality of it is that it's aimed at children 5-12 years old who can hound their parents to by them the action figures and other toys. It started in ROTJ with the Ewoks.

This series only exists so george can sell more toys over an 5-8 year period.

Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Machinimax on March 11, 2012, 07:29:59 AM
Oh man. I feel weird being the only here one who liked it .  :D ;D

well don't because I did too :D


Oh good. Now I feel better!  ;D
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: KI-ADI-MUNDI on March 11, 2012, 09:58:29 AM
The reality of it is that it's aimed at children 5-12 years old who can hound their parents to by them the action figures and other toys. It started in ROTJ with the Ewoks.

This series only exists so george can sell more toys over an 5-8 year period.


Do you really know that or are you just talking smack?... I'd like to see the article or story where George says I'm only doing this for the money... Oh never mind I found it... I guess your right...

George Lucas
Quote
"Yeah those stupid OT parents what a bunch of dumb hicks... don't they know.. or they should have figured out by now that I hate them and that I only made the stupid piece of crap cartoon to steal money out of their pockets by making their annoying little kids bug them for toys created from the show"...


Man George Lucas is a Jerk.... None of this has anything to do with art or artistic expression... or because he was really inspired by the Art of Ralph McQuairre and wanted to explore that vision of Star Wars as concept art or for that matter because he wanted to do something cool.... None of that is true because he's just a money grubbing son of those poor hicks... Man I'll say it again George Lucas is total Jerk.... And I hope his whole Empire finds it's way to ruin just for creating Jar Jar.... oh... and for thinking Jake Loyd can act... Because that's your next two complaints right?.... Don't worry you don't have to answer I know that it is... Old old old.... ::)
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: STARKILLER on March 11, 2012, 12:00:32 PM
I watched the episode this morning. I thought it was pretty good, I just wish there was more back story on how he survived. Maybe there will be more in the next episode. Personally, I like TCW a lot. I think the creative direction and freedom is a nice and much needed breath of fresh air into the Star Wars universe. You gotta understand, when George first told his story, he was extremely limited in what he could show his audience. He stretched the boundaries of film making to show us what he did. With the prequels, and the animated show he's able to show us more. Maybe we need to accept that maybe the original perception that fans had of what the universe was like in Star Wars, maybe, just maybe is not what George had/has in mind. I like Ewoks, I like Ahsoka, I like all the cool new story directions in the CW series. I don't mind Jar Jar, people thought the same of 3PO when he first came on screen, but now he's beloved. Go figure.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on March 11, 2012, 12:16:42 PM
C3PO wasn't a racist stereotype like Jar Jar 'Steppinfetchit/Sambo' Binks...Ewoks would be ok if they were always meant to be that way but since we know they were supposed to be Wookies naming them ewoks is a constant reminder of what they arent...I like Ahsoka and the CW generally when Daddy's Little Girl isn't dumbing it down.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Green Ranger on March 11, 2012, 12:32:55 PM
I watched the episode this morning. I thought it was pretty good, I just wish there was more back story on how he survived. Maybe there will be more in the next episode. Personally, I like TCW a lot. I think the creative direction and freedom is a nice and much needed breath of fresh air into the Star Wars universe. You gotta understand, when George first told his story, he was extremely limited in what he could show his audience. He stretched the boundaries of film making to show us what he did. With the prequels, and the animated show he's able to show us more. Maybe we need to accept that maybe the original perception that fans had of what the universe was like in Star Wars, maybe, just maybe is not what George had/has in mind. I like Ewoks, I like Ahsoka, I like all the cool new story directions in the CW series. I don't mind Jar Jar, people thought the same of 3PO when he first came on screen, but now he's beloved. Go figure.


Perfect
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: boshwan527 on March 11, 2012, 01:27:30 PM
I watched the episode this morning. I thought it was pretty good, I just wish there was more back story on how he survived. Maybe there will be more in the next episode. Personally, I like TCW a lot. I think the creative direction and freedom is a nice and much needed breath of fresh air into the Star Wars universe. You gotta understand, when George first told his story, he was extremely limited in what he could show his audience. He stretched the boundaries of film making to show us what he did. With the prequels, and the animated show he's able to show us more. Maybe we need to accept that maybe the original perception that fans had of what the universe was like in Star Wars, maybe, just maybe is not what George had/has in mind. I like Ewoks, I like Ahsoka, I like all the cool new story directions in the CW series. I don't mind Jar Jar, people thought the same of 3PO when he first came on screen, but now he's beloved. Go figure.

QFT!
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Free Thinker on March 11, 2012, 10:38:46 PM
I watched the episode over the weekend, and thought it was generally okay. As others have already said, it really depends on what happens in the next episode. If I remember rightly from the trailer, Maul ditches the 'spider-legs' in favour of a General Grievous pair for his show-down with Obi-wan. Maybe as part of the transformation, a portion of his sanity is restored as well. I guess we'll see.

p.s. If my recollection of the trailer is wrong, you can put that down to the cup of tea I'm drinking. Tastes a bit wierd....
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Psab Keel on March 11, 2012, 11:07:03 PM
I really wish I didn't care so much.  I think at this point the best thing for me to do is laugh about it.  I mean, I could spend the rest of my life debating about this with people, or I could just become indifferent.  I don't know... hahaha..

Trying to rationalize the creative choices of an eccentric billionaire who created a modern myth is like trying to solve the mysteries of the universe.  No one will know the answer but him.

Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: boshwan527 on March 11, 2012, 11:19:34 PM
I really wish I didn't care so much.  I think at this point the best thing for me to do is laugh about it.  I mean, I could spend the rest of my life debating about this with people, or I could just become indifferent.  I don't know... hahaha..

That's exactly how I feel...except it's after reading posts like yours :(
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Psab Keel on March 11, 2012, 11:58:06 PM
I figure at least if I'm getting some amusement out of it, then at least I won't be disappointed.  When it comes to entertainment sometimes it's best to have low expectations and be shocked if they are far exceeded than to hype something up and be let down when it can't meet those expectations.

I'm just becoming too cynical as I get older. 
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Drazhar on March 12, 2012, 12:00:21 AM
I figure at least if I'm getting some amusement out of it, then at least I won't be disappointed.  When it comes to entertainment sometimes it's best to have low expectations and be shocked if they are far exceeded than to hype something up and be let down when it can't meet those expectations.

I'm just becoming too cynical as I get older. 

"Expect the worst, then everything else is extra." - A good mentor of mine.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Free Thinker on March 12, 2012, 12:03:39 AM
Whoops! :o I just realized that my 'insightful observation' about Maul's legs has already been discussed (in detail) a few pages back. That'll teach me to read posts from back to front!
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: WEDGE ANTILLES on March 12, 2012, 11:57:52 AM
I watched the episode this morning. I thought it was pretty good, I just wish there was more back story on how he survived...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldier_%28film%29

"..Todd seemingly dies when he falls from a great height."

"..Todd and his dead comrades are dumped on the surface of Arcadia 234, a waste disposal planet with dangerously high wind velocities. Though badly injured, Todd limps his way toward a colony of humans who crash-landed there twelve years earlier, and have managed to survive and build a society from the planet's ubiquitous mountains of trash."

"..In a subsequent conflict with a curled SNAKE, Todd teaches Nathan how to face it down..."



-===-


-->     ANYBODY who has seen the movie "Soldier" with kurt russell and gary busey, knows exactly how Maul survived:    
he was "presumed dead", dumped on a "garbage planet" with other trash,  and forced to survive/rebuild using "ubiquitous mountains of trash" as a resource.  

--> add the "snake" for good measure and, (with NO ROOM FOR DOUBT),   you've got "Katie's Inspiration":  a 1990's sci-fi B-movie with kurt russell and gary busey.
 

as soon as I saw the "garbage planet" environment I knew Mauls' entire backstory ::)      it comes from a (cornball) kurt russell movie. ::)  

-=======-
-=======-



its ironic because StarWars used to INSPIRE copycats.   in 1976 GL said one of the reasons for essentially 'remaking flash gordon' was to "bring back" sci-fi (!like socks and sandals baby!) he wanted to inspire an entire "Genre" of sci-fi/fantasy copycats.

--> now it seems the 'copycats' are the ones inspiring star wars :( oh how the mighty have fallen :(  [/full circle]
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Jaden Korr on March 12, 2012, 12:05:44 PM
wow. Forgot about that movie. Pretty forgettable as is, but your right.

I know people are going to use the"well it was intended for kids" defense. Well fine then, you had an epic that had the potential to be GREAT but since you wanted to keep it for kids you have dumbed it down to mediocre at best, good for you. It will not live up to its contemporary epics like Lord of the Rings.

Its legacy could have been that of an epic saga like we felt about th OT, but they are determined to turn it into a childish second-rate sci-fi, I'll pass.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Drazel O'Thumos on March 16, 2012, 08:07:27 AM
Does anybody know when the Episode 22 of season 4 of the Clone Wars will be released and watchable online?
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: KI-ADI-MUNDI on March 16, 2012, 09:22:15 AM
Does anybody know when the Episode 22 of season 4 of the Clone Wars will be released and watchable online?
Tomorrow on starwars.com...
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Machinimax on March 16, 2012, 05:33:03 PM
People may not have liked Part 1 that much but Part 2 was great. I don't care what anyone else says!!  ;) :D ;D
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on March 16, 2012, 06:10:13 PM
Part 2 was much better than part 1...but almost anything would have to be. At least we don't have pathetic Spider-Maul anymore and there was actually one fairly decent line in it [the one about slaughter] so I'll give this episode a passing grade.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Wolfen on March 16, 2012, 09:05:45 PM
This show just gets worse. I cant believe the Infinities Maul look has been made canon. Obi Wan was way too weak in this. And him and Ventress teaming up was ridiculous. But even taking that team they should have been able to handle the zabraks eadily enough. For me, the Clone Wars are covered by the comics and thats it.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: blackluc on March 16, 2012, 09:43:38 PM
I must say I really liked it.  They "fixed" Maul, he's way better than in the first part.

I liked Obi Wan teaming with Ventress, but I think what I enjoyed the most was Obi Wan's sense of humor  :D
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on March 16, 2012, 10:34:24 PM
Obi and Ventress sitting in a tree, k-i-s-s-i-n...

...hey Obi needs a love interest right? right?

...naw I didn't believe their 'chemistry' either. lol

Sorry Katie but that ill conceived "team up" part of the episode was as weaksauce as Spider-Maul...no way Obi would ever trust Ventress even one inch even in desperate circumstances he knows she is just too duplicitous. I didnt buy it at all.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Free Thinker on March 17, 2012, 04:29:43 AM
Well, I haven't seen the episode yet, but from the comments so far it doesn't sound too promising. I don't really like the idea of Obi-wan and Ventress teaming up, but you could kind of see it coming with recent episodes as she gradually 'softened'.

It makes you wonder what's happened to The Rule of Two in The Clone Wars. At the moment there are five nominally dark side characters (or possibly four now that Ventress appears to have flown the nest). Perhaps in season 5 Sidious will order Count Dooku to restore balance by personally killing off Maul and Oppress. That could be an interesting story, as long as the writers made it a Sith only affair (no more Jedi-Sith team-ups). It would also be an opportunity to show the difference between a pair of marauders and a genuine Sith Lord.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: KI-ADI-MUNDI on March 17, 2012, 09:29:32 AM
Well considering the only Sidious and Dooku are Sith I'd say the rule of two is still in effect... Just because you work with the dark side does not make your Sith... Maul is a failure and literally a piece of garbage scooped up off the floor and thrown in a trash heap... something that Sidious would have no use for... and the others have never even been close to becoming Sith...
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on March 17, 2012, 11:15:37 AM
Ventress was never more than a Sith wannabe, and Oppress is nothing more than a brute with a red saberstaff. Simply having a red lightsaber doesnt make one Sith anymore than having a blue one made Luke a Jedi before Yoda's training. Dark Jedi often used red sabers too which is all that Ventress and Oppress are.

Darth Maul on the other hand was truly a Sith and his return does pose a problem for the Rule Of Two...he is going to have to kill Darth Tyranus, or DT will have to kill him [or in theory they could both kill Sidious to restore it but I don't see that as likely given their opposite mindsets and Maul would never submit to a former Jedi like Dooku nor would an aristocrat like Dooku to an unrefined assassin like Maul].
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Rats on March 17, 2012, 01:56:45 PM
I got the impression in the way Maul was talking this episode that he no longer considers himself worthy to be considered a Sith. He said he was "destined for so much more" and now he is broken. Sith seem to always have the objective of galactic domination in mind; it seems like Maul now only cares about seeking vengeance. And I'm assuming that even now that he knows he survived, Sidious would no longer consider Maul to be his apprentice or even a Sith, given his failure on Naboo.

Overall, I really enjoyed the episode. I especially enjoyed the fact that when he was informed of the Clone Wars, Maul said something along the lines of "It started... without me," given the impression that even in TPM, he knew before we did what was to come. Very cool.

It also brings me back to wishing Maul hadn't been "killed" in TPM. Because honestly, he could have taken Dooku's place in the other two films no problem and been the figurehead of the Separatist army. The script would have to be modified slightly, but it could have been accomplished quite easily. Sigh. Well, the Clone Wars is the next best thing, I guess.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Luis88 on March 18, 2012, 02:25:35 AM
I've been reading darth plaqueis and even though it's part of the EU it makes a lot of sense to me so from what i've gathered there is no rule of two anymore, Palpatine saw the rule as a weakness. Instead of ruling with power he rules with fear. ever since reading that all these sith and 'dark jedi' being involved in the clone wars just makes more sense.  I'm still not up to the part where he recruits maul but im looking forward to it.

I really enjoyed this episode. Part 2 makes part 1 seems so much better when you look at it as a whole. Sam witwer has done an awesome job at bringing darth maul back to life. He even sounds like darth maul from episode 1.

I would of prefered it if maul didnt talk as much to keep that dark assassin vibe to him.

Cant wait for season 5 ;D

Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Rats on March 18, 2012, 07:29:54 AM
Right you are, Luis. I also forgot to mention that Palpatine also had Mara Jade and Joruus C'baoth in his inner circle, as well as a bunch of other "Emperor's Right Hands." Suffice to say, Palpatine played fast and loose with the Rule of Two.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Nero Attoru on March 19, 2012, 05:13:23 AM
Right you are, Luis. I also forgot to mention that Palpatine also had Mara Jade and Joruus C'baoth in his inner circle, as well as a bunch of other "Emperor's Right Hands." Suffice to say, Palpatine played fast and loose with the Rule of Two.

Very true.  Not to mention the "Dark Side Elite" you see in the Dark Empire series, his own little team of Dark Jedi miscreants.  When you consider this along with his "Emperor's Hands" and Dooku's employment of Ventress and Oppress, it's pretty obvious how that generation of Sith bent the rules.  Basically to them, as long as you don't explicitly call them "Sith" you're still ok... but then again, wouldn't a Sith be the one to find loopholes like that? ;)
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Ramphastid on March 20, 2012, 07:15:22 PM
The worst idea since the prequels...I pretty much only considered the despecialized OT canon anymore...
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: JediUlinMarek on March 25, 2012, 07:24:52 AM
Well, I can honestly say that the way they did the episode ticked me off a little. For one thing,  they made Darth Maul look wrong. When the gave him his legs back, they didnt proportion them so he looks FAT! And he supposedly hasnt been eating, so that makes no sense. Second, they didnt even think to have him meet his old master, maybe ACTUALLY come back to the sith to do something about his revenge... I liked seeing my favorite Sith Lord again, but they ruined his amazing legacy in my opinion.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Lord Xeno on March 25, 2012, 11:44:42 AM
I finally caught Ep. 22. Not bad.  "Brothers" was a really sub-par episode for me, especially after "Bounty" which I thought was really good. 

Overall season 4 of TCW was pretty good, with the Krell/Umbara arc being my fave. With that  being an A+, I'd give the Ventress/Bounty Hunter/Maul returns arc a B+.  Sam Witwer as Maul was a huge plus and I agree he even sounded like Peter Serafinowicz's Darth Maul from TPM. This dude *needs* to be Starkiller in the upcoming TV series.  I thought the Obi-Wan using one of Ventress' sabers was pretty cool too, but he did seem too weak during the battle.

We really never got the "rematch" everyone was expecting. A lot of the emphasis seemed to be on Ventress/Savage as opposed to Obi/Maul. I also thought they'd kill Maul off after bringing him back --glad they didn't.

Overall not bad.  I suppose we'll get the Obi/Maul rematch next season with Maul's new curved double-bladed lightsaber, and that's when Maul is finally finished off.   Problem is, they made him seem too powerful for Obi-Wan to handle in "Revenge".  So perhaps it is Anakin who actually does it after Obi once again gets the crap kicked out of him.

Anyway -- hopefully we'll see a Grievous/Maul match before that happens!



Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: ravenseye8 on June 17, 2012, 05:26:47 PM
"Brothers" was a waste of an episode, really fillery.  I didn't mind the next one, but I felt Obi-Wan was portrayed too weak.  I don't mind Maul being back, he shouldn't have died in TPM anyway.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: KingOfDathomir on January 22, 2013, 12:40:25 AM
Wow, no post here in a cool minute  :o

Anyways,  I liked the idea of this arc since Savage's cliff-hanger ending in season 3 when Talzin told him of his brother's survival. It was a little slow to start in Brothers, but Revenge got me amped for season 5s opener Revival. Now here we are, and season 5s Mandalore arc has begun. Maul has "normal" robo-legs, Savage has a new arm to replace the one Kenobi took, and they've thrown in their lot with the underworld and Deathwatch. They seem poised to take Mandalore by force.

Cant wait to see some of the epic fights in store, especially Pre-Viszla vs. Maul, and Sideous vs. the Brothers. As for the latter, I'm anxious to see if and how Maul will somehow survive this confrontation......
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Master Finariel on February 01, 2013, 09:04:36 PM
I think some characters are best left in the grave. Darth Maul being one of them. He seemed like he had the potential to be an extremely powerful Sith, too bad he became one of Sidious' pawns in the movies. Clone Wars should have left him dead. I wouldn't have minded if Darth Maul's ghost appeared in the series, but they just ruined a somewhat significant plot point in The Phantom Menace. I mean, you watch Qui Gon die in front of his apprentice and Obi uses intellect to outwit Maul and avenge his master, oh wait, JK he didn't really kill Maul, sorry Obi, we had you going there for a second. I think they just needed something to do with Savage after he failed to kill Dooku and they decided Maul was their best option.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Green Ranger on February 06, 2013, 03:44:50 AM
My question is, what did Sidious mean by "I have other plans for you", as the last thing he said to Maul?
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on February 06, 2013, 03:52:42 AM
Send him to kill Ahsoka to push Anakin further towards the Dark Side perhaps?
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: JANGO FETT on February 06, 2013, 06:14:19 AM
I think some characters are best left in the grave. Darth Maul being one of them. He seemed like he had the potential to be an extremely powerful Sith, too bad he became one of Sidious' pawns in the movies. Clone Wars should have left him dead. I wouldn't have minded if Darth Maul's ghost appeared in the series, but they just ruined a somewhat significant plot point in The Phantom Menace. I mean, you watch Qui Gon die in front of his apprentice and Obi uses intellect to outwit Maul and avenge his master, oh wait, JK he didn't really kill Maul, sorry Obi, we had you going there for a second. I think they just needed something to do with Savage after he failed to kill Dooku and they decided Maul was their best option.

It was worth it, just to see Sidious wipe the floor with them dual welding 2 sabers.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on February 06, 2013, 10:51:07 AM
Agreed.

We've seen Jedi vs Sith in the OT.

We've seen Jedi vs Jedi in the PT.

But AFAIK this is the first time we've ever seen Sith vs Sith?

And a really EPIC saber duel too...one of the best in TCW yet.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Machinimax on February 06, 2013, 04:25:45 PM
Agreed.

We've seen Jedi vs Sith in the OT.

We've seen Jedi vs Jedi in the PT.

But AFAIK this is the first time we've ever seen Sith vs Sith?

And a really EPIC saber duel too...one of the best in TCW yet.

And I like that we've finally seen that on screen. We've heard time and time again that happens within the ranks of the Sith. I quote Bastila Shan when she fell to the Dark Side in KOTOR:

"Have you forgotten the ways of the Sith already, Revan? Eventually I will challenge my master. If I am worthy, he will die by my hand and I will become the new Sith Master. Then I will take on my own apprentice and the cycle will begin again. This is the way of the Sith. It is how we assure our leaders are the strongest and most worthy."

While this wasn't the exact case in this AWESOME fight, it still exemplifies that the Sith fight amongst themselves all the time.

Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Master Finariel on February 06, 2013, 06:05:37 PM

It was worth it, just to see Sidious wipe the floor with them dual welding 2 sabers.


I have to admit that it was a quite amazing duel, plus the animated Sidious didn't make all those....faces... ::)

After all that I'm not sure which side I stand for. However, I never liked the Nightsisters/Mother Talzin part of TCW, so I still don't like that part of the Maul/Savage plot.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Luis88 on February 06, 2013, 07:21:09 PM
I think Darth Maul talks too much in TCW. In the EU and TPM he was a silent sith assassin and i really miss that quality in him and that's what made him such a great and interesting character (and the double edged lightsaber).

Should he kill ashoka? Maybe, but Dooku could do it as well which validates Anakin beheading dooku in ROTS though seeing anakin losing with with Maul would be so much cooler. Ashoka may not even die at all.

Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Big Boss on February 06, 2013, 08:13:52 PM
Agreed.

We've seen Jedi vs Sith in the OT.

We've seen Jedi vs Jedi in the PT.

But AFAIK this is the first time we've ever seen Sith vs Sith?

And a really EPIC saber duel too...one of the best in TCW yet.

Actually the first sith vs sith duel was between Ventress, Savage VS Dooku from last season. It was pretty good, but not as good as the one with sidious and maul.


I really liked how obi won was portrayed in the last couple of episodes. Especially how he acted in front of maul, obi kept to the jedi code and didn't let anger take him over even when maul killed the Duchess of mandalore, whom obi loved dearly.  Maul also killed qui gon and obi still didn't lose it. Really shows how different Obi and ani were in the path each took.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: EyeoftheRaven on February 06, 2013, 08:26:02 PM
If Maul does come back next season, I hope they finally go the full deal with his double bladed saber and black robes.  No goat legs like last season, no green half open tunic like this year, and no broken single side saber please.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Big Boss on February 06, 2013, 09:02:13 PM
If Maul does come back next season, I hope they finally go the full deal with his double bladed saber and black robes.  No goat legs like last season, no green half open tunic like this year, and no broken single side saber please.

Same here. When Maul first came back I was planning on seeing him with a rebuilt staff. Seeing two Zabraks with a staff facing off against sidious would have been awesome, though likely much harder to choreograph. 
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Wolfen on February 06, 2013, 10:02:45 PM
It did look pretty awesome.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on February 06, 2013, 11:28:23 PM
Ventress was never a Sith, neither was Savage...they were 'dark jedi' apprentices of Sith Apprentices not Sith themselves.

Darth Bane's post Ruusan Sith reformation Rule of Two: Two there are; a Master to embody Power, an Apprentice to crave it. No more no less.

TPM - Sidious, Maul

AOTC - Sidious, Tyranus

TCW - Sidious, Tyranus

ROTS - Sidious, Tyranus then Sidious, Vader

ANH - Sidious, Vader

ESB - Sidious, Vader

ROTJ - Sidious, Vader

Dark Jedi don't count as Sith - Starkiller NOT Sith, Mara Jade NOT Sith, Ventress NOT Sith, Savage NOT Sith because they were neither the Master, nor the Apprentice of the Master.

Maul however WAS the 'official' Apprentice of Sidious - so is real Sith - except that Sidious thought him dead so took Dooku as his new Apprentice which created a POTENTIAL problem for the Rule Of Two when Maul turned up alive.

Notice that Sidious did NOT attack Maul immediately...it didn't matter to him if Maul and Savage ran around causing trouble for the Jedi Order, Separatists or Republic as 'dark jedi' anymore than it really mattered that Tyrannus trained Ventress or Grievous, or that Vader trained Starkiller...

Its only when Maul DECLARED himself and Savage to be Sith 'publicly' to the Galaxy by saying it to the Mandalorians and Black Sun that Sidious then HAD to act directly. If he hadn't then it would have put Tyranus authority in doubt [if Sidious first Apprentice is still Sith under Rule of TWO then how can Tyrannus claim to be a THIRD Sith?] and worse by declaring himself AND Savage Sith he is directly challenging Sidious' claim to being Master...for that Savage had to die and Maul had to be PUBLICLY 'chastized' and 'stripped' of any legitimate claim to being a real Sith to reaffirm Sidious' position as Sith Master, Tyrannus' as his official Sith Apprentice, reaffirm the primacy of the Rule Of Two and prevent 'devaluation of the Sith 'brand' to the Galactic public.

Which was the point of that Sith versus Sith duel.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Green Ranger on February 07, 2013, 01:09:05 AM
Or in simpler terms, Maul declared himself to be the "True Lord of the Sith" to the Death Watch in the previous episode. Sidious saw this potential uprising as a threat and decided to kill off his competition. The same reason he killed his master during TPM. Sidious simply wants complete control, and this is why he claims the rule of two. It allows him to have someone to do his bidding whom he can control, while having total say so over each and every plan carried out.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: JANGO FETT on February 07, 2013, 07:04:50 AM
I think Darth Maul talks too much in TCW. In the EU and TPM he was a silent sith assassin and i really miss that quality in him and that's what made him such a great and interesting character (and the double edged lightsaber).


I disagree.
Only because it keeps Sam Witwer involved in star wars voice over work.  8)
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: KingOfDathomir on June 19, 2013, 10:06:06 PM
In the Plagueis novel it clearly states that Plagueis was alive and well until the very same moment Maul was cut in half by Obi-wan Kenobi, so perhaps Maul was never Sith either, being the apprentice of the apprentice and all :o
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: kamakazykid on June 20, 2013, 01:15:00 AM
I think Darth Maul talks too much in TCW. In the EU and TPM he was a silent sith assassin and i really miss that quality in him and that's what made him such a great and interesting character (and the double edged lightsaber).


I disagree.
Only because it keeps Sam Witwer involved in star wars voice over work.  8)

I agree.. Sam does great voice over work. His voice work as the emperor for the TFU games was fantastic. In the interview when he did his Sidious impression I was thoroughly impressed and thought, wow this guy is a true SW fan not just some guy getting a paycheck.
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: mostwanted on October 15, 2013, 10:15:38 AM
I think some characters are best left in the grave. Darth Maul being one of them. He seemed like he had the potential to be an extremely powerful Sith, too bad he became one of Sidious' pawns in the movies. Clone Wars should have left him dead. I wouldn't have minded if Darth Maul's ghost appeared in the series, but they just ruined a somewhat significant plot point in The Phantom Menace. I mean, you watch Qui Gon die in front of his apprentice and Obi uses intellect to outwit Maul and avenge his master, oh wait, JK he didn't really kill Maul, sorry Obi, we had you going there for a second. I think they just needed something to do with Savage after he failed to kill Dooku and they decided Maul was their best option.

100% agree
Title: Re: Darth Maul is back (Officially)
Post by: Malachor V on September 25, 2018, 10:16:53 AM
Yes, agree.