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Author Topic: Got my first commission. Not sure what to do next.  (Read 3110 times)

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Offline SirRawThunderMan

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Got my first commission. Not sure what to do next.
« on: April 09, 2018, 02:33:30 PM »
Sorry if this is in the wrong place, K2SO, wasn't sure where to ask this.

So, what I thought kinda unthinkable has happened: a friend of mine has decided to commission me to make him a lightsaber. In real, human money. I'm going to meet him tomorrow to hammer out the build details. it's someone I know and trust, so I'm not going to go through the mining guild

And I have no real idea what to do next. I didn't really plan on making stuff for other people when I got into this hobby, so it's not really something I've considered before. So I figure I'd ask for advice.

So, building itself, I have no problems with. it's the money side of things that I'm unsure about. stuff like how to work out how much the time I spend building is worth, how to charge for parts I have to buy, etc. practical stuff like should I figure out what the budget is first and then work my way back from there? and probably a million little other factors like that I've never had to think about.

Any advice? thoughts? anything gratefully received.

Better late than never.

Offline Jediseth

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Re: Got my first commission. Not sure what to do next.
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2018, 02:52:21 PM »
I’ve been told by more than one person that the going rate for labor on a basic install ( light and sound ) by someone who knows how is between $230 - $250 range.  That’s not including parts just labor. I’ll probably get smacked for saying that. I’ve only done small amounts of work for others, but from asking around and my experience that’s the going rate. Of coarse chambers, blinkies etc. would be more and probably varies.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 02:55:35 PM by Jediseth »

Offline JakeSoft

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Re: Got my first commission. Not sure what to do next.
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2018, 03:49:46 PM »
I’ve been told by more than one person that the going rate for labor on a basic install ( light and sound ) by someone who knows how is between $230 - $250 range.  That’s not including parts just labor. I’ll probably get smacked for saying that. I’ve only done small amounts of work for others, but from asking around and my experience that’s the going rate. Of coarse chambers, blinkies etc. would be more and probably varies.

I'll chime in here as I think I'm in the same boat of a very occasionally building sabers for others and not a pro installer. If building for a friend, I don't usually charge as much as I would for somebody I don't know, but it's all based on complexity. If I can do it in a few hours, I charge them maybe cost of parts plus 15-20%. If it's involved and will take days, I start to charge by the hour. If it is very difficult and I don't really want to do it, I charge a PITA tax on top of that.  :grin:
« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 03:54:57 PM by JakeSoft »

Offline Jediseth

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Re: Got my first commission. Not sure what to do next.
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2018, 04:35:16 PM »
Lol. You if you don’t mind I’m going to use that PITA tax. That’s good.

Offline jbkuma

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Re: Got my first commission. Not sure what to do next.
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2018, 05:18:30 PM »
The PITA tax is real.  I generally don't take jobs from folks with tight design requirements.  I like having artistic flexibility and I don't want someone asking every 3 days how it's going and can I change or add something.

Your time and talent are worth something, the parts are essentially incidental to that. I've done work at cost before when someone really couldn't afford it, the job was low key, and it allowed me an excuse to experiment.   Extra design points cost extra money, don't let design creep take over your life.  It's going to take longer than you think it will, don't promise a tight deadline especially if you are doing the work for a token fee.

Make sure you set appropriate expectations.  If there is something you can't do or aren't quite sure of let your friend know. If they want you to try anyway then it should not be at your expense when you have to try something else.


Offline SirRawThunderMan

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Re: Got my first commission. Not sure what to do next.
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2018, 06:41:06 AM »
Thanks folks, that's given me some food for thought.

Quote
I’ve been told by more than one person that the going rate for labor on a basic install ( light and sound ) by someone who knows how is between $230 - $250 range.  That’s not including parts just labor. I’ll probably get smacked for saying that. I’ve only done small amounts of work for others, but from asking around and my experience that’s the going rate. Of coarse chambers, blinkies etc. would be more and probably varies.

Okay, converted into pounds sterling, that's a range of £165-180. Just so we're on the same page, by "basic install", you mean something like LEDs (with or without FoC), sound, 18650, NB, with a laser cut chassis, or something more complex? Because I was thinking of charging a bit more than that (£200-240, so $280-320 or so) much for a whole custom build, parts and labour and all. might have to set my fee a little higher if that's the going rate for an install:undecided:

Quote
I'll chime in here as I think I'm in the same boat of a very occasionally building sabers for others and not a pro installer. If building for a friend, I don't usually charge as much as I would for somebody I don't know, but it's all based on complexity. If I can do it in a few hours, I charge them maybe cost of parts plus 15-20%. If it's involved and will take days, I start to charge by the hour. If it is very difficult and I don't really want to do it, I charge a PITA tax on top of that.  :grin:

I think that I'm probably going to aim for something along those lines. that said, if I know the guy, I'm not expecting that much of a PiTA tax, though.

Quote
I've done work at cost before when someone really couldn't afford it, the job was low key, and it allowed me an excuse to experiment.   Extra design points cost extra money, don't let design creep take over your life.  It's going to take longer than you think it will, don't promise a tight deadline especially if you are doing the work for a token fee.

Make sure you set appropriate expectations.  If there is something you can't do or aren't quite sure of let your friend know. If they want you to try anyway then it should not be at your expense when you have to try something else.

Well, I'm not sure yet what he wants in terms of hilt design, but he did mention an interest in Count Dooku's saber. And I've fancied playing around with a curved hilt design for a few months now, so it would be the perfect chance to experiment a little with that. But aside from that, re: setting expectations, I'm going to have to do a lot of that, if only because I'm pretty sure my friend wouldn't recognise a Nano Biscotte from an actual slice of buttered toast. I'm going to have to do a lot of explaining as to how these things work and what to expect from the various boards, features, etc.
Better late than never.

Offline jbkuma

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Re: Got my first commission. Not sure what to do next.
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2018, 07:57:38 AM »
My lady used to get friends that wanted things all the time: scratch built dream sabers with real confined energy blades.  I gave modest price ranges like starts around $200-$300, plus $50-$250 for electronics depending on what they want, plus a blade.  The reaction was usually what you'd expect in a hostage situation involving small children.  She now knows to say that it would likely start at around $350 and take 2-3 months.  If they want less than that what they really want is a readily available item like a commercially available replica.

Offline SirRawThunderMan

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Re: Got my first commission. Not sure what to do next.
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2018, 09:07:46 AM »
I gave modest price ranges like starts around $200-$300, plus $50-$250 for electronics depending on what they want, plus a blade.  The reaction was usually what you'd expect in a hostage situation involving small children.

Well, now I know how to get arduino homebrews working, I've always got the option to reduce the cost of the electronics without sacrificing too much quality. I'm hoping for a reaction similar to a hostage situation involving obnoxious teenagers :tongue:
Better late than never.

Offline bombarta

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Re: Got my first commission. Not sure what to do next.
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2018, 10:18:10 AM »
Don't know if you meant to make it sound like it did " how much I  charge for parts",  you do not charge for parts, parts are not for you to make profit from, start doing that and you will not win many friends in the saber community if they realise you're doing that.
And if there's any guild or mining colony member's here doing that you will lose any respect I have for you.
Best thing to do is have them order, pay for the parts and send them to you for fitting if your not planning on doing more builds.
I don't know, i gotta bad feeling about this!
       

Offline SirRawThunderMan

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Re: Got my first commission. Not sure what to do next.
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2018, 10:45:48 AM »
Don't know if you meant to make it sound like it did " how much I  charge for parts",  you do not charge for parts, parts are not for you to make profit from, start doing that and you will not win many friends in the saber community if they realise you're doing that.
And if there's any guild or mining colony member's here doing that you will lose any respect I have for you.
Best thing to do is have them order, pay for the parts and send them to you for fitting if your not planning on doing more builds.

Oh, wow. okay, no, that was definitely not what I intended to say. Heck, didn't actually realise that was an issue. As I said in the OP, this is brand new territory to me, full of pitfalls I've never even considered before, and it's clear that I've fallen into one there, by mistake. Apologies, and thanks for correcting me, Bombarta.

Right, thanks for the advice, everyone. I'm off to hammer out the details in a few minutes.
Better late than never.

Offline jbkuma

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Re: Got my first commission. Not sure what to do next.
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2018, 10:48:03 AM »
Best thing to do is have them order, pay for the parts and send them to you for fitting if your not planning on doing more builds.
If you are just talking about ordering some TCSS parts and assembling them that might make some sense, but I would never do this in any other case.

Generally in prop building there is a negotiated budget price and deadline.  At least for my work, I already have a good deal of the materials on hand.  Even if I don't have some thing already, do they really need a laundry list of materials and list of shops where they should buy them?  What if you need 3" of material but it is more convenient and cost effective to buy a 4ft length? 

As you say, you should be charging for your time not not some mark up on materials, but if you are just giving a fair budget price that distinction is effectively pointless.  We each have our reasons for what we charge including deadlines, work load, local cost of living, artistic flexibility, etc.  Are they paying cash up front, down payment, (hopefully not) payment in full on delivery? These factors might change from day to day and job to job.  You should never have to justify your time or your rates. 

Whether you think this is a 40 hour job and you want to make $5/hr, or you decide that for this particular job you'd like to make $200 that is up to you to sort out.  As long as you are honest about expectations, keep communications open, and put in your best effort nobody should have any say about what you make on a job.

Offline Darth Chasm

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Re: Got my first commission. Not sure what to do next.
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2018, 01:52:34 PM »
If materials A-Z cost $10 and you’re procuring them, then that’s $10 to the customer. Not $35.

Add that $10 to what you believe your time for labor (design, fabrication, finishing, install, testing) is worth. Be transparent and realistic. If final price is out of their range you have 3 options. Compromise, change design, spec, etc to fit the budget or say sorry and walk away.

Oh and if you do come to an agreement throw something nice in the deal. I do love Ervs caramels :)
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 01:58:31 PM by Darth Chasm »

Offline jbkuma

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Re: Got my first commission. Not sure what to do next.
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2018, 02:21:04 PM »
Contracts at my last company included a clause promising fare trade, organic lollipops at meetings.

Offline Jediseth

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Re: Got my first commission. Not sure what to do next.
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2018, 02:44:53 PM »
Darth Chasm is right about the walking away part too. I recently was asked to build a saber with a chamber in it. The client already had an idea of pricing and came to me most likely looking for a better deal. If he could have done the job he would be doing it himself. I would be careful don’t to bend to far. If the deal gets to the point where your giving too much I’d walk.  I’m a firm believer in quality work for the fair pay. Quality over quantity. So many people out there want something for nothing. It’s not fair to anyone in the long run especially you.   
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 02:48:14 PM by Jediseth »

Offline SirRawThunderMan

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Re: Got my first commission. Not sure what to do next.
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2018, 06:20:59 AM »
Well, the negotiations were short. And successful. And to make things better, my friend was impressed enough by my upgraded scrapsaber (I brought a few sabers with me as my portfolio) that the commission is to make a *slightly* different replica of it. I've got a fair amount of flexibility in terms design, too, so that's a plus.

I'm working up a  cost list of parts now, and I'll start working on a the changes to the hilt later on today.
Better late than never.

 

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