Author Topic: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi Discussion (Spoiler Alerts)  (Read 1302 times)

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Online Kanjiklub

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Re: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi Discussion (Spoiler Alerts)
« Reply #45 on: December 25, 2017, 05:23:54 PM »
This movie had flaws, built not awful.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2017, 12:05:51 AM by Kanjiklub »

Offline Scruffy Nerf Herder

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Re: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi Discussion (Spoiler Alerts)
« Reply #46 on: January 05, 2018, 12:05:06 PM »
So, after another sabbatical from this forum I'm back and have formed my opinion of TLJ...well, at least 95% formed.  Could be a long read, so if you're still reading at the end, thanks!

So JJ Abrams left us with many unanswered questions (as any good intro to a trilogy should do) and what did Rian Johnson do with most of them?  He handled them exactly as Luke handled his old light saber when Rey handed it to him.  Chucked over the shoulder without so much as a second thought.

Now, to expound on this...

So what we have here is basically a 2.5 hour car chase scene in 15 mph.  Much akin to the steamroller scene in Austin Powers IMOM.  And mixed in with that painfully dull setting was Rey learning absolutely nothing about the force she didn't already figure out, and 30 minutes of wasted time on Canto Bight that, if removed, would have zero impact on the outcome.

Sooooo many plot holes...

1. Adm. Holdo withholding the Resistance's escape plan from Poe Dameron.  WHY?  In what farcical world would a leader keep that information secret when their very lives depended on everyone working together to escape the FO?  I've been in the military for 22+ years...many of those working in small operational units.  There's one thing we all don't play "I've got a secret" because "I've got a secret" gets people killed.

2. DJ, how in the Same Hades did he know the resistance was using cloaking technology?  Rose and Finn didn't how did he find out...and why did he need anything from Rose and Finn if he already had the means to escape Canto Bight, the knowledge of Resistance Plans, and the ability to sell that knowledge for financial gain?

3. Adm. Holdo take 2.  If she knew that flying a starship into another starship at lightspeed would disable it...why didn't they do that with the first two ships that ran out of fuel?

4. First Order, so for 2.5 hours not one flipping Admiral or even a deckhand thought of "why don't we have a couple Star Destroyers lightspeed jump in front of the resistance and cut them off?

5. Luke...why didn't he just pull his X-wing out of the water, put the panel back on and fly to Crait?  Secondly, if he was an astral projection, with no physical was Leia and subsequently Kylo able to hold the MF dice?

6. Why is Finn even a character?  He's completely useless to the story...should've let him commit suicide on Crait...along with Rose who is also a wasted character.  Neither of them did anything remotely significant to the story in TLJ.

7. Leia...if she's so strong in the force to Mary Poppins her almost dead body back into the ship...why the xxx couldn't she lift the rocks on Crait herself to allow an escape?

8. Snoke...if he's so powerful in the dark side and already knew Kylo was could he not sense Kylo's impending betrayal?

Character issues:

Phasma....wasted character.  She went out like Boba Fett.  Complete waste of such good potential for a storyline.

Finn/Rose love story...this is so on the nose it's not even funny.  We're supposed to believe they fall for each other because she's a social justice warrior and he's finally picked a side?

Kylo Ren....I still have no feeling that his motivation is apparent or if he even knows what he's doing.

Luke...Mark Hammil said it himself...I fundamentally disagree with everything Rian did to that character.

Chewbacca...where's his mean streak...they castrated him when he felt guilty for almost eating a Porg.  Bring back the big furry oaf that rips people's arms off.

Armitage Hux...seriously?  How did this guy become a General?  He's a pathetic man-child who was competing against Kylo Ren for Snoke's love.

Ok, enough of the complaint-fest.  Here's where the movie shines.

Rey is having to decide for herself where she fits in the galaxy, and she's taking ownership of that.  The obvious SJW nonsense aside, the underlying theme of "anyone can be someone" is consistent with the SW universe (Anakin was a nobody, Luke was a nobody until we found out who daddy was)  Kylo Ren has removed his only obstacle to being what he thinks he's meant to be (except for Rey).  It's up to him now as well to decide where his goes.

Yep, my Cons list is longer than my Pro list.  As far as SW is concerned, it was a colossal mess.  As a movie, it was good/great....4 of 5.  The visual spectacle, the use silent moments when the Raddus smashed through Snoke's ship, the grand scale of open scenes...all beautifully made.

And at the end...what I'm left with is...What is there to bring me back to see Ep IX?  I honestly feel like I have no imputus to see the final act.  And that's the worst part.  All I can see is when Disney bought the SWU it became about money, and not story-telling...and those of us who grew up loving this franchise are being snuffed Kylo Ren said.

Offline Master Mithric

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Re: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi Discussion (Spoiler Alerts)
« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2018, 09:41:04 AM »
I've seen TLJ a few times now. At first, I left the theater completely disappointed in the hype that had been built around this movie, especially with everything that was being said at Celebration. After watching the next couple times, I already knew what to expect so I was able to just sit and watch the movie for what it was. I still in no way love this one, but I don't hate it as much as I did after the first viewing. Some people are extremely upset about not knowing about Rey's family. I could honestly care less. Why does every force user have to come from special family? Is it really that freaking hard to accept if Rey really did come from a family that were nobodies?

Despite how good or bad this movie was, I still don't feel it deserves majority of the hate that it is being shown. There were some great visuals throughout the movie, and there were some great scenes, as well as things they did not have to show, such as the red Kyber crystal necklace hanging in Luke's hut or R2 showing the message of Leia from ANH. I thought Rey & Kylo had much better chemistry vs Rey & Finn. There were also things we haven't seen on screen yet when it comes to the force, such the "mind bridge" between Rey and Kylo or Luke projecting himself onto another planet that was x amount of miles away. 

As much as I appreciate those scenes, I still find myself questioning why some things were done how they were. Some of these are just me being picky but anyways:

1) Unless they've changed their minds about placing her in Ep. IX, why not kill off Leia when she was sucked out of the ship instead of leaving the character in to have to somehow write off.

2) Why they left people on the ships that ran out of fuel knowing they're going to be destroyed.

3) Leia b****** at Poe for being reckless and causing the deaths of many resistance fighters in the early part of the movie, yet Adm. Holdo left everyone out of the plan knowing Poe will just go off and do the same irrational thing they just yelled at him for doing.

4) If they're just going to allow themselves to be killed when the ship runs out of fuel, why didn't they just save just enough fuel and use those ships to do exactly what Adm. Holdo done to begin with.

5) Similar to how everyone complained about Rey's abilities in TFA, where's Leia learn to use the force to the extent she did? She showed no hint of being able to use the force in ROTJ or TFA except being able to "feel" someone, yet she was able to use the force to Mary Poppins herself from the vacuum of space back to the ship. As Scruffy just mentioned, if she's that powerful, why couldn't she even attempt to move the rocks at the end of the cave? My only assumption on this one is to show how strong Rey is becoming?

6) I understand why Luke made himself look younger in his projection, but if the writers were detailed enough to include such things as Yoda's spirit and even the Kyber crystal necklace, why give Luke the graflex? Was it that hard to give him his ROTJ hilt? Only assumption I have is he felt "more like Luke Skywalker" when he had the graflex vs his last act when he had his other saber.
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Offline Psab Keel

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Re: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi Discussion (Spoiler Alerts)
« Reply #48 on: January 09, 2018, 11:13:12 PM »
So what is Rey's conflict then?  She wants to belong somewhere?  I mean this film and in turn this new trilogy feels so disjointed in that Rey, Finn, and Poe (our new Han, Luke, and Leia) never have any scenes together until the very end. 

Even the prequels at least got this right in that Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Padme had scenes together so that you could get the sense that they were friends.  Even if the scenes didn't always work, at least you had that comradery implied because they shared screen time together. 

Poe doesn't even meet Rey until the end of TLJ when she's lifting the boulders from the back of the cave.  So now the second act of the new trilogy is over and one our principles is only NOW meeting our protagonist?  One of the reasons why we root for Luke, Leia and Han in the OT is because we've witnessed them go through the war together and have watched them grow together as a result.

The only link Poe and Rey have is Finn.  Finn knows both of them, but they don't know each other.  It makes for a hard sell when it comes to caring about these characters. 

Plus in all those years spent on that island, Luke learned NOTHING new about the Force that we don't already know?  I mean if he didn't want anything to do with the conflict then why in a galaxy far, far away would he go THERE?

It would make sense if he was bitter because he went there looking for answers on how to save his nephew but could find none.  THAT would at least make logical sense and could play into the idea of Luke having given up.  Even his motivation is not clear at all in this movie.

What makes NO sense is that Luke would go to a planet where all he is surrounded by is the Force, only to have rejected it entirely, and no it's not clever that it's ironic.  Not in the least.  It's just stupid. 

Offline IceSaber

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Re: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi Discussion (Spoiler Alerts)
« Reply #49 on: January 10, 2018, 02:11:44 AM »
Really liked:
  • Luke being luke - When he saw R2 or had his "young luke" personality moments come out. Great throwbacks but not enough.
  • Luke & Yoda
  • Rey and Kylo throne room fight
  • Kylo's dual
  • Poe in general
  • Leia and Lukes moments together
  • The build up to Luke V Kylo
  • Throwback to older music tracks during certain scenes
  • A few redeeming scenes that added some emotion that feels very Star Wars. Second watch will remind me what they were.
  • Lightsaber closups!

  • Kylo's intentions in throne room being masked before stabbing snoke.
  • The intention to try to make a throwback to the Cantina and Alien life with the Casino part of the movie
  • Kylo not shooting Leia when he could have

  • Casino arc was generally boring and pointless
  • No explenation about whether he was the correct code breaker or the guy with the flower was.
  • Lukes motivation in general (until the very end)
  • Leia's "mary poppins" moment without a single explanation.
  • The darkside of the island only had a scary hole and mirror.
  • Gravity in space at the start with the bombs..
  • Rose kissing Finn randomly? did she die?
  • How did Finn and Rose make it back into the cave at the end?
  • How did the First Order become so powerful after TFA?
  • How did Rey get back into the Millenium Falcon after Snokes ship?

  • Luke died.. which should not have happened until at least episode 9.
  • Luke didn't get to properly fight or showcase his power in a wise and powerful way.
  • Force projection across the galaxy?!
  • No real Luke saber battles
  • Rey besting luke in a staff battle
  • Snoke dying without having any character development or having accomplished anything of note.
  • Dropped TFA plot points - Rey's parents, Snokes importance and background, Kylo & Rey's potential connection outside of balancing the force, Luke saving the rebelion and his map, knights of Ren.
  • Screwed up TLJ plot - Snoke was pointless, Luke dying from too much force use, Kylo killing other students for no reason.
  • Lukes moping around
  • Lukes view on Jedi ending
  • Luke trying to kill Kylo
  • Rey's parentage.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 02:13:51 AM by IceSaber »