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Author Topic: Best Dark Side Apprentice?  (Read 8516 times)

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Offline Ven Zallow

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Re: Best Dark Side Apprentice?
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2011, 06:01:14 PM »
Maul was very skilled with lightsabers, but he did not seem to have been adopted by Sidious for his intelligence and autonomous thinking (as far as one can judge by what we briefly saw in the movies, but admittedly, this remains speculative because he was not very... talkative!)

Ventress wasn't a full-fledged "apprentice" of Dooku, properly speaking, and, moreover, she was not composed enough and coldly calculating enough, unlike Dooku.

Anakin Skywalker/Vader was very powerful in mastering Force techniques and in wielding a lightsaber, but he was not a calm, composed and far-seeing person, and his powerful but overwhelming emotions could serve him well but they also frequently clouded his judgement (just think of the way he reacts on various occasions by just dashing into danger like an unrestrained tornado  -- and think of his last move in his fateful duel against Obi Wan Kenobi : what he did was just plainly stupid!!  ::) ::) ::) He could have jumped everywhere else around Obi Wan, or even wisely adjusted the amplitude of his jump, or circumvent the obvious danger by gradually gaining the "high ground" or tricking Obi Wan by letting him think that he was "losing ground" while actually letting Obi Wan exhaust himself and waiting for the right moment to strike, just as Dooku did in his first duel with Obi Wan....Think of it : Dooku was the only one to be able to repeatedly defeat Obi Wan : Why? - because, unlike others, he perfectly knows that pretending to lose ground or to hesitate, and using tactical elements of surprise is as much important in a duel as resorting to raw acrobatic skills. I admire that and I can testify to the fact that it is crucial in duels  :) ;) )

... thus in the end, I voted for Dooku, because he is both an excellent dueller and an expert in telekinesis, and moreover, he is an intelligent, composed and tactical mind and, paradoxically, an "idealistic" person who turned to the Dark Side because of his political and ethical convictions (I like this idea). And to all that, you must add that he had the logistic and material means to fulfill his ambitions (he was of noble descent and had a tremendous wealth).
First point : Dooku is the best dueller and has a lot of stamina (for a person of his age). Just think of the way he managed, in Episode 2, to withstand a continuous and demanding three-round fight (first Obi Wan, then Anakin, and finally Yoda!) and of the way he managed to defeat two of the most powerful Jedis at that time (Anakin - he severed his right arm and knocked him out- and also Obi Wan - he incapacitated him by inflicting him two bad gashes, one on the shoulder and the other one on the thigh, and he most certainly would have finished him if Anakin had not parried his strike). And on his second encounter with the Anakin-Obi Wan duo, he again managed to knock out one of the two Jedis (Obi Wan) while holding his ground against the other (Anakin) until his opponent resorted to a skillful, unconventional and twisted move (in the end Dooku was defeated by a trick and what was fatal to him was both his overconfidence and his failure to see that his nostalgic respect for some of the old-fashioned conventions of aristocratic duels (not trying to hold/restrain your opponent's body with your bare hands while blocking his blade, which was seen as a rude and disgusting move unworthy of an aristocratic fighter - only quick blows were allowed) were not shared by Anakin.
And, by the way, when you compare the duelling skills of Dooku to those of "old" Obi Wan and Vader (when they meet again onboard of Death Star 1  ::) ), you can clearly see that aging is not a valid excuse for lack of training!  (on Geonosis, Dooku was already MUCH older than "old" Obi Wan and "old" Vader when they """""""fought"""""""" onboard of Death Star >:( ::) )...
Second point : Dooku, although far less powerful than Sidious, was one of the best practitioner of telekinesis of the Jedi Order, and he seemed to be very skilled in using various techniques (electromagnetic Force lightning, distal psychokinesis, most certainly mind control and hypnosis).
Third point : Dooku is the "Bruce Wayne" of the Dark Side (lol -poor comparison, forgive me) : his powers lie as much in his physical prowesses as in his formidable wealth (which enabled him to bribe many people, to buy abundant war material, to raise a separatist army, to finance a few innovative experiments on cybernetics, among which was the reconstruction of a well-known Kaleesh general... etc)

It is interesting to note that each one of Sidious' apprentices was seduced by the Dark Side by a different kind of trick.

Darth Sidious/Palpatine adapts his speech and technique to the person he wants to seduce, and to what his/her dominant passion and prominent weakness are : Darth Maul was raised in the Dark Side of the Force by means of his fear of insecurity as a young child, his agressivity and his need for guidance. Count Dooku was convinced into it by means of his pride, his resentment and his political ambition. Anakin Skywalker  was tricked into it by means of his passionate temper, his rebellious attitude, his paradoxical  longing for a father-like authoritarian figure, and his overwhelming fear of losing the ones he loved. Finally, Luke Skywalker would have been trolled into the Dark side by means of his anger  towards his father, his attachment to his friends, and his hatred against the Empire. There are many paths towards the Dark Side, and many possible temptations…

And all that was planned and done by a cunning and manipulative Sith Lord who managed to patiently and gradually rise to power by raising rival political forces against each other and by exploiting  the fears and desires of his allies and enemies as well! Palpatine/Sidious  truely is … insidious, and he is the perfect embodiment of what Dante Alighieri , in his Inferno, called the Fraudulent and Treacherous souls (the last and deepest circles of the Inferno)…  :o :-\

Hahaha, I just saw you post! Great minds think alike ;)

Offline KingOfDathomir

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Re: Best Dark Side Apprentice?
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2013, 02:53:15 AM »
What about Savage Oppress? I know his character was at least somewhat developed by the time this thread began.  :P
Difficult it is, choosing who is best... but top my list, Ventress has. Vicious and cunning, Asajj was one of the more interesting characters in the EU. Then she was the only Dooku apprentice to get a debut in the original Clone Wars micro-series. Now she's gained so much depth of character in the cg series that its as much her story as it is Obi-Wan's or Anakin's story.

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Offline bombarta

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Re: Best Dark Side Apprentice?
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2013, 12:38:49 PM »
maul, full of dark fury and hate for the jedi.
I don't know, i gotta bad feeling about this!
       

Offline Lord Darth Revan

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Re: Best Dark Side Apprentice?
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2013, 09:01:11 PM »
I am torn between Maul and Anakin. I voted for Anakin but for me it is a tough choice. I agree that a Maul stand alone movie would be awesome. Anakin unleashed full on sith would have been a force to be reckoned with. I love the Star Wars Tales that has Vader vs Maul, awesome story, plus I have the comic that has the photos on it signed by Prowes and Park.

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Offline Green Ranger

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Re: Best Dark Side Approentice?
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2013, 10:15:51 PM »
Anakin went Beast Mode better than any of them. He has my vote.

Offline bombarta

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Re: Best Dark Side Apprentice?
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2013, 01:06:03 PM »
why is General Greivous even on this list? he was just a lacky for dooku, could not use the force at all! and was only shown saber moves not jedi/sith skills.
I don't know, i gotta bad feeling about this!
       

Offline Nick Knight

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Re: Best Dark Side Apprentice?
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2013, 07:47:56 PM »
I went with Darth Maul not because he is my favorite. But because man he was Dark and Deep. They cut his cool line about fear. He was quiet like a Jedi like he was Deep in thought. But all dark thoughts and he acted when necessary and took on 2 Jedi at once. Ya Dooku took on two sort of in the second film. But one was a brash angry kid and the other just became a master. Maul took on Ob1 when he was not the top of his game but really good and Qui Gon jinn seasoned Jedi. He fought both at once and fought them hard for a long time.  Heck he had OB1 there at the end. It was over confidence not lack of skill that got him cut in two. Even then he did not die if you fallow the Cartoon. I would have liked to see top of his game Anakin fight Maul. Anakin strong in the force. Fights with passion. All out with force powers flying with both arms still his. Yelling at his enemy.  V.S. Maul quiet, attacks with thought and skill along with anger and hate for his enemies. Force powers at just the right moments. I could watch just hours and hours of "What if" lightsaber fights. Deadliest Warrior get your computer simulator going one more time for

"Deadliest Warrior Dark Side Fights"
I would love to get there simulator program just to enter my own data into it just to see who would win.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 07:49:36 PM by Nick Knight »
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Offline Vercify

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Re: Best Dark Side Apprentice?
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2013, 10:09:11 AM »
No idea on how I stumbled across this.... lol.

Anyways, I am surprised that more people here have not read Darth Plagueis. The book chronicles the series of events about 60 years before TPM through the end of TPM. It is focused on Darth Plagueis and his apprentice, Darth Sidious, their alter-egos, and how they came to realize and fulfill the Granp Plan of the Sith.

One of the biggest points in the book is that NEVER under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES could a Jedi turned to the dark side EVER be as powerful as a true sith. Their anger, confusion, and already developed force sensitivity makes them powerful, no doubt, but a TRUE sith is literally driven by the force and chosen from birth to have a significance to the Sith's goals in the galaxy. Palpatine only had one major fight scene, but the force was stronger in him than in any other being in the history of the galaxy. He was unstoppable.

The Sith and Jedi cycle between phases of power and conquest and exile and defeat... a sequence maintained by the force. Palpatine was the Jedi's reckoning, so to speak. He was the culmination of 2000 years of plotting dating back to The Old Republic... he was meant to be the one to bring the jedi to their knees, and the force made sure he had the power to do so. In turn, Luke was meant to destroy Palpatine. He was his near opposite in force ability and sensitivity, but he did not have the time, place or mentor to unleash his full potential as Sidious did. the force moves in cycles of light and dark. It does not dictate the events of the galaxy, but the will of the force is the endgame of the events and actions in the galaxy, whether the individuals within them realize it or  not.

With this in mind, I think that this list really has no true candidates.

Dooku and Anakin were both turned to the Dark Side. They were incredibly powerful, but neither of them could ever have stood a chance against the unbridled power of Sidious.

Ventress had potential, but she was too unpredictable and too rash to be a true sith. Similar to the childish traits displayed by Anakin, Ventress denies her true power by being selfish and closed minded, refusing to see the big picture by letting short-term emotiosn cloud her judgement (albeit fuel her abilities as well).

Grievous was not force sensitive.

Maul: Darth Maul was adopted by Sidious from birth. He was the perfect candidtae to be an incredibly powerful Sith Lord, but Sidious ruined him. Sidious took him as an "apprentice" but groomed him to be little more than a powerful slave. Maul was never given insight to the histories, texts, and ancient teachings of a Sith - the knowledge that seperates a true sith from a force sensitive being fueled by the darkside.

When it comes down to it, I think Maul had the most potential. Had Sidious groomed Maul in the same way that Plageuis had groomed Sidious, who knows what might have happened. Whatever would have happened would have had to happen after ROTS, because that was Sidious' destiny, and Force was ensuring that the Jedi would dissappear (although using Anakin and Order 66 was just hte way Palpatine approached it, not the way the force demanded it).





Offline MikeOretta

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Re: Best Dark Side Apprentice?
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2013, 05:21:52 PM »
I voted for Grevious.  I was an apprentice to the dark side.  Trained by Count Dooku.  I just like his leadership skills and being able to command an army.  He wasn't one of those lurking in the shadow enemies.  He faced his opponents and wanted them to know his name. 

Offline aretoo

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Re: Best Dark Side Apprentice?
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2014, 02:15:20 PM »
I voted for Grevious.  I was an apprentice to the dark side.  Trained by Count Dooku.  I just like his leadership skills and being able to command an army.  He wasn't one of those lurking in the shadow enemies.  He faced his opponents and wanted them to know his name.

Maul is my favorite, but Grevious is a close second.

Offline jedimax

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Re: Best Dark Side Apprentice?
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2016, 08:28:00 AM »
Darth Maul and Ventress in 2nd place

 

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