FX-Sabers.com
Jedi Temple => Inactive / Removed Manufacturers => FX-SABERS Archives => Hyperdyne => Topic started by: ARKM on February 19, 2011, 02:43:55 AM
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Hi all. A member here by the name of yossh made a saber with a SaberSD sound board and a LEDEngin 10W RGGB LED that utilized a flash of light from the blade, occurring upon a clash of the blade (for the rest of this post I will refer to that feature as "Auxiliary Flash" or "aux flash" for short). He was nice enough to post a wiring diagram for that setup. For that I thank him as without it, I wouldn't have a clue on how to make it all work.
Anywho, being a wiring noob I tested yossh's wiring diagram (as is) for aux flash, using a LEDEngin 10W LED and a SaberSD board and found out this... it's wrong (no offense intended yossh). It took me awhile to figure it all out and get everything working but I did and I have an updated wiring diagram to share with everyone. I definitely got my feet wet wiring this bad boy up. Here's a link to the original diagram...
http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j473/Yossh55/SaberSD-.jpg
(http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j473/Yossh55/SaberSD-.jpg)
Here's my changed version of the diagram (pic is clickable)...
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy237%2FEvil-Henchman%2FSaberSD%2520wiring%2Fth_Aux_Flash_with_SaberSD_soundboard-LEDEngin_10W_RGGB_LED.jpg&hash=4ae909ece913285283abfa2cd0be8617f52b72ec) (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/Evil-Henchman/SaberSD%20wiring/Aux_Flash_with_SaberSD_soundboard-LEDEngin_10W_RGGB_LED.jpg)
I corrected the polarity colors for the wires connecting the DPDT 5V relay to the vibration moter pads (the DPDT 5V relay does not have polarity but I made the change anyways as the pads do have polarity), moved the blue wire for the deflection switch to the proper lead on the soundboard, removed the green wire splitting near the LED that originally connected to both negative leads (now it only connects to the negative for the two main die), changed the yellow wire turning to purple that connects to the aux flash negative LEDs to all yellow, removed the jumpered positive line on the LED that connected the main dies with the aux flash dies and seperated them into two wires coming off of the LED, connected a purple "wire" from lead 4 to lead 11 on the DPDT 5V relay, added a 1 Ohm resistor to both the main LED positive and aux flash positive wires and changed and added some text descriptions.
Here are some pics from the SaberSD PDF manual that show what each lead/pad is for...
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy237%2FEvil-Henchman%2FSaberSD%2520wiring%2Fth_SaberSD-Vibration_Motor_Install.jpg&hash=e600b8a3359937184575572156f15187f611449c) (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/Evil-Henchman/SaberSD%20wiring/SaberSD-Vibration_Motor_Install.jpg)
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy237%2FEvil-Henchman%2FSaberSD%2520wiring%2Fth_SaberSD_Board-Wiring.jpg&hash=319a3f30f74fe29149be6000cdae00b33b2cfe0f) (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/Evil-Henchman/SaberSD%20wiring/SaberSD_Board-Wiring.jpg)
Note: The "clash output signal" lead on the soundboard is NOT used. That is for the Hyberblade driver unit that drives the Hyperblade LED string.
Normally for the Red and Blue dies that are wired in series for aux flash, you would want to use a 2 or 2.2 Ohm resistor on the aux flash positive wire. However since they are not on for very long (they are only on when a clash is triggered) a 1 Ohm resistor should suffice.
For this particular setup, the settings for the vibration motor pads in the mode.txt file should be as follows...
vibenabled=1;
vibclashinten=0;
vibswinginten=43;
vibhuminten=43;
viboninten=43;
vibwhilehum=1;
The main LEDs and the aux flash LEDs work great. The only problem is the deflection feature. When activated by a seperate momentary button, the proper sound plays and the two aux flash LEDs come on... but then they stay on until a swing or clash sound is activated the normal way. This happens everytime when using deflection. This can also sometimes occur during normal aux flash usage (same fixes apply). The purple wire I added on the relay does not affect this issue as I tried it both with and without it so my fix is not the issue, lol. Anywho, just thought I'd share this with everyone.
EDIT: I updated the diagram again as it needed more changes.
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Here's another way to wire it all up that achieves the same results. The benefit of doing it this way is that you only need an SPST 5V relay instead of a DPDT. Of course you can still use a DPDT relay and just not use one side of it (as in the diagram below).
NOTE: The vibration motor settings in the mode.txt file need to be changed for this setup in order for it to work properly. Also, the aux flash LED dies do not light up when using the deflection button when wired this way. Since the aux flash LEDs do not shut off properly when using the deflection button in the previous wiring setup, this should not be an issue as deflection really can't be used either way... at least for lighting effect.
Here's the diagram...
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy237%2FEvil-Henchman%2FSaberSD%2520wiring%2Fth_Aux_Flash_with_SaberSD_soundboard-LEDEngin_10W_RGGB_LED-Alternate_Wiring.jpg&hash=7987f4a2e5d3ba073696614b9bfe5d68441192ee) (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/Evil-Henchman/SaberSD%20wiring/Aux_Flash_with_SaberSD_soundboard-LEDEngin_10W_RGGB_LED-Alternate_Wiring.jpg)
For this particular setup, the settings for the vibration motor pads in the mode.txt file should be as follows...
vibenabled=1;
vibclashinten=43;
vibswinginten=0;
vibhuminten=0;
viboninten=0;
vibwhilehum=0;
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Hey dude. Im dying to try this since I have two.... I was planning on using one for when he restocks LED blades and the other for a corbin driver but it seems like it wont be anytime soon that he'll restock. Anyway I might try this also so thank you for showing this. BTW how do you get the lockup sound? All I can get is the blaster deflect sound but not blade lockup. I saw this with Yosh's video and was just wondering if you can get that also. Hey once again thanks man!!
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Hey dude. Im dying to try this since I have two.... I was planning on using one for when he restocks LED blades and the other for a corbin driver but it seems like it wont be anytime soon that he'll restock. Anyway I might try this also so thank you for showing this. BTW how do you get the lockup sound? All I can get is the blaster deflect sound but not blade lockup. I saw this with Yosh's video and was just wondering if you can get that also. Hey once again thanks man!!
Your welcome. I'm glad someone besides me can make use of this.
The reason the deflection sounds sound like clash sounds is that the stock deflection files are practically the same as the clash files. I noticed that too so I played the deflection wav files on my PC to check them and noticed that they are really just clash sounds. Sadly, there is only one font template on the CD that has deflection sounds. As such, your best bet would be to acquire some true blaster deflection or blade lockup sounds on your own from ripping sounds from one of the many PC Star Wars games or from buying a Novastar CD and changing the appropriate sound files from RAW to WAV.
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Wonderful, thanks for sharing this info and the diagrams.
This will come in very handy if I decide to do this with a Saber SD in the future. Thanks for doing all the grunt work! :D
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Your welcome.
One thing I forgot to mention is that if you use a different LED or different voltage battery pack, the resistors must be updated accordingly.
Also, if you want to reduce the voltage going to the LED by a lot without using a lower voltage battery pack, Do-Clo mentioned that a good way to do that is to use diodes to step it down as it causes less heat than a voltage regulator. With the RGGB, there is no need to reduce the voltage as both of the GG dies wired in series normally require 8.4V and they are only getting 7.4. with the above setup.
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very handy that..
would it be possible to do a diagram of just a simple single led set up with out foc?
just battery main led etc and which wires go where?
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With both of the wiring setups I previously posted, the main and aux flash LED dies are being driven straight from the battery pack. The relay is only there to allow aux flash to work.
If you are using a single LED with no aux flash, you can use the second diagram. Just remove the relay, remove both yellow wires, remove the wires leading from the vibration motor pads to the relay (unless you want to connect those wires to a vibration motor) and remove the aux flash positive wire from the LED (which removes the aux flash positive resistor as well). Obviously the LED would look different and have less pads to solder to. As such, the two little red wires you see on the LED itself would also be gone as they are just there to each wire two of the four dies in series.
The vibration motor pad settings in the mode.txt file would then not matter what they are set to unless you connected a vibration motor to it.
Alternatively you can run a low current main LED off of the vibration motor pads. You would have to use the vibration motor settings that are for the first wiring diagram but change some of them in the mode.txt file to put out the proper amount of voltage that the LED requires. However... the driving transistor for those pads is only rated at 600mA and most low powered LEDs have 700mA as the recommended current. The pads can probably output 700mA but it will probably shorten the lifespan of the vibration motor pads driving transistor. As such, you may want to use a resistor that will lower the mA to 600. However doing it this way means that you are underdrivng the LED and as such, it will not be as bright. The upside to doing this is that you can now use a SPST momentary switch instead of a DPDT latching switch to turn the saber on, if you so choose.
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Sorry to necropost... just wondering if anyone's tried this yet.
I know the SaberSD has a clash output lead.
To me, when I saw this, I thought of the clash output pad on the CFV5 that I just finished wiring up.
My question is this - did anyone try wiring up the clash output to a powerextender to see if that would work for FoC?
Thanks,
-C
EDIT:
YES IT WORKS!!!
So, the clash output lead goes into Erv's powerextender just like it would for a CF card (which kinda makes sense since it's basically a transistor)
This is cool cause it now allows you to use an LED driver (i.e. the TCSS one) to get your blade flicker effect, and also frees up the motor pads for use with a vibration motor or other low current accessory ;)
I'll post up a vid to prove it in a few minutes...
EDIT2: video link (click on image):
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi882.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac29%2Fcannibal869%2FLightsabers%2Fth_MVI_4125.jpg&hash=d2f49ac92d67850396c0a9babf6743011dccd52f) (http://s882.photobucket.com/albums/ac29/cannibal869/Lightsabers/?action=view¤t=MVI_4125.mp4)
Ok sorry I think I need to increase the sensitivity settings of the board later, but at least you get the idea.
It's a brief flash, but it works great so far (I've got it hooked up to two dice on that LED)
-C
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Hey thats cool beens! Please keep us posted. I have all the parts but babysitting comes first :)
Okay would this only be for the clash you think? Or for the deflect and lock up also? Thank you sir!!
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Cannibal, NICE! I happen to have one of Erv's power extenders. I'll have to play around with this one of these days Thanks for the info.
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Thanks!
The cool thing is this: I had the SaberSD board powered by two Li-Ion 14500's and the clash to powerextender circuit was hooked up to two dice on a 10W LEDEngin Amber LED. Clash Flash was bright! :D
wiring diagram of what I'm talking about FYI
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi882.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac29%2Fcannibal869%2FLightsabers%2FSaberSDFoC.jpg&hash=edf2b64fb5afc349125b0bde82fe1fa1cfe5bbc1) (http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac29/cannibal869/Lightsabers/SaberSDFoC.jpg)
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Very cool.
Hmm. That got me to thinking. I wonder if the 5V relay used in yossh's/my method can be activated by the clash output lead and work the same way it does when connected to the vibration motor pads.
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Very cool.
Hmm. That got me to thinking. I wonder if the 5V relay used in yossh's/my method can be activated by the clash output lead and work the same way it does when connected to the vibration motor pads.
If I'm not mistaken, and if I'm interpreting your diagram correctly, you're basically using the 5V relay to direct drive the main blade LED during normal use AND do the FoC thing, right?
I mean you can achieve the same thing by using your DPDT switch - one side activates the board and the other turns on the main blade LED as a direct drive. Wire the Clash circuit directly to the FoC LEDs as above with the powerextender (or transistor). As far as I can tell, the powerextender really is just a transistor anyway.... And if you use the powerextender, then you no longer really need the relay (saves some physical in-hilt space).
The only real advantage of using the powerextender is that it allows you to drive the main LED with something like the TCSS LED driver so that you get the gradual on and off as well as blade flicker effects. It also frees up the motor pads so you can also get the vibration effect if you have a small motor.
The other cool thing is that you don't actually need to resistor the FoC LEDs if you use two dice off of a 10W LED... since the driving voltage for that should be "close enough" to the 7.4V battery pack that it won't make a long term difference, especially since the clash effect only lasts for like a second. (you might still want to though if you want to save the 10+ extra hours of LED life ;) )
-C
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In my first wiring diagram, the main LEDs negative goes through the relay so in that case yes. However in my second more competent diagram, the main LEDs negative does not go through the relay, only the aux flash LEDs negative does. Therefore in the second diagram, the main LEDs and the board are being activated by the DPDT switch as you just suggested.
The only reason I stated that I wonder if the relay can run off the clash wire and the battery pack negative is this... what if I didn't have a power extender? What if someone else can make use of wiring it that way using a relay so that they can now use a vibration motor as well?
As far as resistoring LEDs when the voltage needed to run them is the same as what the LED/s require... I did that in my diagrams to regulate current in case of a current spike, not to lower voltage. Better safe than sorry. Also I didn't want more experienced forum members coming down on me for not including resistors on the LEDs. ;) From what I read on the net, unless you are providing less voltage than what the LED is rated at for normal usage, it's always a good idea to use a resistor.
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The only reason I stated that I wonder if the relay can run off the clash wire and the battery pack negative is this... what if I didn't have a power extender? What if someone else can make use of wiring it that way using a relay so that they can now use a vibration motor as well?
Meh... just get a transistor then. I'm not sure if it's NPN or PNP but you get the idea.
As far as resistoring LEDs when the voltage needed to run them is the same as what the LED/s require... I did that in my diagrams to regulate current in case of a current spike, not to lower voltage. Better safe than sorry. Also I didn't want more experienced forum members coming down on me for not including resistors on the LEDs. ;) From what I read on the net, unless you are providing less voltage than what the LED is rated at for normal usage, it's always a good idea to use a resistor.
;)
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You can tell a PX is an NPN. The aux in is a positive, and the power in and power out are negatives.
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just incase anyone is wanting one the saber sd is now back in stock on hypers web site
http://www.hyperdynelabs.com/hyperblade/purchase.php
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Im actually waiting for the led blades itself. Which is taking 4 eva. I finally tried the above diagram and it works awesome! Thakn you to ARKM and Cannibal!! I however cant figure out how to make the clash and deflect sounds work as a "chain". Theres an annoying delay before the second sound font is played. I cant figure out how to make them overlap. Also the flash for the clash is very brief while the deflect clash lasts for two seconds. Lastly is the accelerometer on this board sucks.
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All the settings are adjustable when it comes to setting off the clash or hum. You might get better results if you tweak them (assuming you haven't already).
With the aux flash LEDs running off of the vibration motor pads, those LEDS will be lit for as long as the clash file plays. This includes any amounts of zero volume areas in the sound file itself. If they are not on long enough for you, you can edit the sound files in the WAV editor of your choice and make them longer. Personally they are on too long for me when using the stock sound files that come with the CD that comes with the SaberSD... but then there are areas of zero volume at the beginning and end of those files that can be edited out.
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So do the second set of dies light up on deflects and lockup when using the clash output signal wired to a px?
or just when wired to the rumble motor pads.
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No. With a PE, it only flashes with clash and blaster block.
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That's a bummer
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Very Excited to see someone working with the Saber SD's now. Bought one over a year ago with big plans on making my first saber, only to be discouraged by the fact that i couldn't find hardly any information about them. My Plan, was for a 10w ledengine wired for purple and the G dye for the FoC. A blade pulse would be ideal, but without a LED driver I don't see a way. I've been eyeballing your wiring diagram now the past week or so, and I just wanted to say thank you. There would be a few things i would like to do differently, might ask you about that later. I have a quick question tho, I would like to drive the LED from the actual SD boards outputs, and not direct drive them. As well as the FoC. Gg dye. I'm just not sure what kind of transistors i would need, and/or a power extender. Erv doesn't seem to have any lying around on his site atm, and I was about to place my order from Tim for some parts. I've been keeping myself busy with my chassis design since i havent been able to wrap my head around the electronics hurdle yet ;)
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You cannot drive the main LED from the board itself unless it is off the vibration motor pads and at no more than 600ma. This is because the driving transistor for the vibration motor pads is rated at 600mA. It may allow 700mA or more but that it will probably shorten the life of that component. As such, If you run your main LED off of the vibration motor pads, you should probably adjust the voltage and resistance so that you are only providing 600mA to the LED. Sadly, this means that you will be underdriving it as most LEDs that are used for the main LED in a saber require 700mA or greater. So it can be done but you will be either undriving the LED or overdriving the vibration motor pad's driving transistor. Of course you will need to set the config settings for the vibration motor to always be on and to supply the correct voltage and whatnot.
You can't run them off any of the normal leads on the board as it either won't work at all or the LEDs will always be on, even when the board is off (but still has power to it). I know this because I tried it.
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Thanks for the reply ARKM, I'm leaning towards a Ledengine 5w blue, or a Seoul P4 instead , and a Constant current LED driver from TCSS. I was getting overly ambitious for my first saber and am thinking baby steps instead. As far as the Clash output goes, would it be possible to wire the SaberSd's clash output to the Led drivers input and use a transistor?
Edit: Also, are you using 2x 14500's or 4x?
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As for the first question, I don't think that would work as I believe those inputs are designed for constant current. However, using a 10W LEDEngin you could just wire two of the four LEDs to the LED driver board and use the other two for aux flash and wire them using my method or cannibal869's method.
I think there is still an LED driver board that TCSS sells that will provide an auxiliary flash of some sort. You may look into that as an option.
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Thanks!
The cool thing is this: I had the SaberSD board powered by two Li-Ion 14500's and the clash to powerextender circuit was hooked up to two dice on a 10W LEDEngin Amber LED. Clash Flash was bright! :D
wiring diagram of what I'm talking about FYI
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi882.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac29%2Fcannibal869%2FLightsabers%2FSaberSDFoC.jpg&hash=edf2b64fb5afc349125b0bde82fe1fa1cfe5bbc1) (http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac29/cannibal869/Lightsabers/SaberSDFoC.jpg)
Rats. This was almost identical to the setup I was planning to use for my friends steampunk Graflex. The only problem is my hilt is already done & I'm limited to only using 2 single pole tactile momentary switches, one is being built into the sabers blingstrip & the other is going under the red button. I don't care if it's got blade flicker or not so is there any way to get a clash flash type effect with a Ledengin 10W amber without needing an LED driver board or a double pole switch?
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Darth Inferis, the only way to do what you want is to either run the main LEDs off of the vibration motor pad and underdrive them to 600ma (or run them at 700ma and risk shortening the lifespan of the sound board) or to use an additional board for the main LEDs such as the driver board (that you said you don't want to use) or a pololu board (like what is found in the Lighthound keychains). You would still need the power extender for the aux flash LEDs.
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It's not really a case of not wanting to use an LED driver board, I'm just limited to having to use the 2 single pole momentary switches while a polulu/driver board would need a double pole switch to activate driver & sound boards. If I could use one single pole momentary switch to activate them both it wouldn't be a problem but I doubt that would work because of the difference in power requirements. If only there was some way to run a Ledengin 10W amber with the Hyperblade driver board I'd be in business. ::)
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What would be the problem with using the hyperdyne driver to power your LED? Aside from being an expensive option? The pololu sounds like a cheaper alternative tbh.
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To the best of my knowledge it's not possible to run an LED star with a Hyperblade driver, they're made for LED strings. I'd be very happy to be corrected if I'm wrong about that though.
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I'm no expert i'm afraid i've only just started playing around with mine an i'm running a strip but I don't see why you couldn't set it up the same way you would with a stock mr card to run your main. You prob wouldn't even need to bunch the wires together. I think you could run it on just the first as it can put out 1.5A to each section. Flashiness on impact though would involve one of the additions above I guess though i've not tried them myself yet.
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Hmmm. It could be possible but I've been searching for a guide to the V2 Hyperblade driver wiring for the multicoloured end of the board & can't find one. That would solve all my problems & it's possible I could use the output for the first step of the string for accent LED's & the 2nd step for the main blade.
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No. I need to email them again and ask the color/section sequence too. They were pretty quick getting back to me last week about the output specs. As and when i get an answer i'll post it.
Plus if you ran accent LEDs from the blade driver they would be affected by blade fx...
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Brilliant! I've managed to glean this much, the yellow wire is the common positive & the others are all negative (Many thanks to Matt Thorn for figuring that out ;)). I'd assume some will be to control the steps of the LED string & the rest will be for the impact activated flash effect. Best to wait for details from the source though. Thanks for your help Subvirtua, I look forward to hearing the results of your enquiry. :)
Edit - You're right about the accent LED's, perhaps I could run them off the rumble motor output? Failing that a micro LED driver like the ones JQ Sabers sell could do the trick wired in parallel to the main board input. I just want to run a pair of flickering 3mm LED's to give the inside of the Graflex clamp a furnace type effect which would be visible through the mesh of the blingstrip.
I wonder if 1.5A would be enough to run 2 dies on a Ledengin 10W amber either in series or parallel?
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Should be I think. Two dies 1.4A at 4.5v in series at a guess. Accent leds would be fine on the vib motor pads i'd imagine assuming you don't want to run your flash from those.
Reading through the documentation it doesn't seem to match the info Jim mailed me and strangely I can't seem to access the website today so I can't check to see if the current driver is a later version than my V2.. I'd suggest it's still doable with the V2 but perhaps not from a single segment feed with a 7.2v supply.