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Offline Callyste

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First project "check-list" and advice seeking.
« on: February 17, 2017, 08:55:20 AM »
Good day fellow Jedi, Sith, and force-wielder!

     I am currently preparing to start working on my first "semi-DIY" saber. It is meant as a gift for a friends' birthday, so I want to build some/most of it myself so it's a more personal gift. This would also be slightly more cost efficient, I guess - I'm not rich :p. Finally, I want it to have sound, light, but no blade - I don't think he'll ever swing it around.


     Here's what I understand I need:

- Hilt: My ability to work hard materials and to assemble them is limited (lacking knowledge in the matter, and no tools beside a Dremel), so I'm opting for adaptable parts. I'm not certain mentioning competitors/other part suppliers here is within the forum rules, so I won't name any. I do have a few options in mind, but I'm open to suggestions.

- Sound: I only need basic sound. Erv's Pico Crumble seems cost-efficient for this purpose, but I do have a few questions about it below.

- Speaker!

- Light: I'm very concerned about parts being "compatible"/fitting, so I intended to opt for whatever LED (12W LED, fixed color) from whomever I'd order the hilt parts, already fitted with the right heatsink.

- Battery: I'm undecided. Probably AAA batteries.

- Switch: lit momentary switch

- Rechargeable port: maybe, if I decide to go with rechargeable battery?


     That's for the "main" parts. I understand I do also need wiring (28 / 24 as I read here and there), resistors (buckpuck?). Heat shrink could also come in handy. Finally, a momentary to latching convertor.
I already have a soldering iron ready, a multimeter, and the most basic tools (screwdrivers, wrenches, pliers, etc).


1) The most obvious question: am I missing something? I've been looking at so many guides that I think I have most things covered up, but I am most certainly forgetting (obvious) things.

2) I'm a bit concerned about all the electronics being able to fit inside the hilt. And, more importantly, how should it fit? If using AAA batteries as I intend to, should everything stay "loose"?

3) I've been reading a bit about Pico Crumble, and there's a little tidbit I'm a bit confused. It's a soundboard, but has the function of controlling the LED too? I assume this is for the FoC and other effects. I first thought I should connect the LED to the switch, in parallel to the soundboard. Since I won't be using any of the most advanced functions (FoC, programmable colors, etc), can Pico Crumble still function well as a basic soundboard with a fixed-color LED, or is there a better alternative for this purpose?

4) I'm still undecided about using AAA batteries. How "hard" - and how expensive - is it to build an in-hilt recharge port? I'm not certain where to start looking for parts - the port, especially one that would be compatible to a switch hole in the hilt. I'm also not sure where I can find the diagram to connect necessary wiring,, if it needs resistors, etc. And finally, will it need a kill switch.

5) Probably the most uncommon question: my friend's birthday is on the 30th of April. Is that a realistic deadline for such a project?

     Apologies for this big topic that in essence is "just" a couple questions. I want to make a beautiful gift for my friend, he deserves as much. I'm still browsing through all the guides I can find in here, but I do welcome all kind of advice, whether it concerns my questions or not - I'm sure I forgot a lot of things.

     Thank you for your attention and your help!

Offline SirRawThunderMan

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Re: First project "check-list" and advice seeking.
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2017, 07:29:45 AM »
Well, I'm not sure how much help I can be, but seeing as no-one else is answering, I'll give it a shot to the best of my knowledge.

One obvious caveat, your ability to source parts will depend on where you live. In the US, that's most likely going to be TCSS for saber specific parts. In Europe, JQ Sabers is a good bet, they stock plenty of TCSS parts and more (email them and ask if they've got what you're looking for, never hurts.) further out, and you're going to have to try and find electronic specialist sites based in your country for parts like batteries, switches, recharge ports, etc.

Hilt: While I'm not a massive fan of Dremels, with the right cutting disks (reinforced fiber) and some patience, you can cut through thin aluminium, brass, and steel. If you don't fancy that, there's still the option of the PVC saber. it's a little outdated now, given the prevalence of MHS parts, but for the sabersmith on a budget, a little PVC plumbing pipe, matching fittings, paint, basic tools (drill, hacksaw/dremel) and imagination can still make a fancy saber. Here's a link to how to build them. it's a little old now (as are most of the tutorials listed on this forum, saddly) the technology has moved on a little, but there's still some valuable info to be taken: Qui-gon Jinn's (Jay-gon Jinn's) PVC Sabers

Sound:. can't say I've used a Pico Crumble before (I'm still a bit of a Padawan, only two builds under my belt) but it's a Plecter Labs product, and there's plenty of manuals at their site: Articles - Plecter Labs - Props Electronics (READ THE MANUAL) The question I would ask is this: do you have a Pico Crumble already, or do you intend to buy one? the availability of saber sound cards can be... in flux. Plecter Labs only make so many every now and then, and they sell out fast. An alternative is cannibalising a cheap Hasbro toy for its soundcard. you'll need to modify it a little :http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?7587-Economy-Version-Hasbro-Sound-Tutorial but it's still a workable solution that produces good results

Battery: Okay, so you can still just about use AAA batteries, but it's really not recommended. These days, most sabers use rechargeable Lithium-ion batteries. According to the Pico Crumble User manual (ALWAYS READ THE MANUAL!) the Pico Crumble was designed to work with an 18650  or 14500 li-ion. however, li-ion batteries have their problems (they're bigger than regular batteries, you have to take care storing them and recharging them, and they can still explode, even with protection circuits.) If you're making this saber for a friend, you can't guarantee how well they'll take care of it, or if they're familiar with how to safely handle a li-ion battery, then plain AAs and AAAs might be worth looking into.

The catch there is that you'll need to install additional components into your build to regulate the power of the batteries.

Okay, so as to your questions:

1:Heat shrink. use plenty of heat shrink. and resistors. I don't think you'll need a momentary to latching convertor, as the pico crumble only works with momentary switches. I'm not sure if I'm missing anything obvious, but I might be.

2:While you can fit everything in loosely, it's really not a good idea (the accelerometers on the sound card won't be as responsive, wires could short/break from rattling around, etc) a chassis or a sled is a good idea, but requires a bit of planning as to how everything will fit together. I can't find a tutorial, so you'll have to employ a bit of google-fu to find out how to build them

3:Yeah, all soundboards also control the LEDs (seriously, READ THE MANUALS). they're marvels of technology for the tiny they are. all hail 'Erv and the Powers of Buttered Toast.

4: As I said earlier, rechargeable are pretty much the norm. ALWAYS GET PROTECTED LI-ION CELLS! Now, the catch here is that given how Li-ion can be dangerous, it can be nigh on impossible to get them shipped abroad. If you're in the USA, TCSS can ship them to you (and I think they can ship to Canada) but they won't ship them outside the US, so you'll have to find a local supplier. recharge ports are easier. the standard is a SwitchCraft 2.1mm DC port http://www.switchcraft.com/Category.aspx?Parent=19 Those are the ones that TCSS sell, but you can get them easily from online suppliers or electronics shops. wiring diagrams you'll have to google for yourself, but there are plenty of tutorials and videos online.

be aware that if you do go for rechargeable batteries, you'll also need a charger to go with.

5:Well, that's one question I can't really help with. far too many variables at play.

the biggest catch is probably going to be the soundcard. If you have one already, hurrah! if not, then it depends where you intend to get one from. TCSS have them in stock right now, so if you can go directly to them, awesome, do that. if you can't (say, like me, you live outside the USA) then your best bet is going to be to buy them directly from Plecter Labs. But, as 'Erv only makes a limited amount available every now and then, you have to like Plecter labs on Facebook, keep an eye out for announcements on stock availability, and pray that you see one there's still stock left, because they sell out FAST.

seriously. I missed out on one around may last year because I took a lie-in on the only morning I didn't have a work shift on and woke up 30 minutes after the announcement went out. by the time I got to my computer, they were sold out. very popular stuff.

This is the one advantage a Hasbro economy soundcard will always have over Plecter labs: you can buy them any time.

after that, the hardest to get will be the battery, assuming you go down the li-ion path. ALWAYS, ALWAYS GET A PROTECTED LI-ION BATTERY! you don't want your saber to go the way of a Samsung Note 7.

as for the rest: you can get most of the electronics on ebay, although it might be hard to find a high power LED in the right colour (plenty of yellow ones for regular lighting, colours, less so) so you'll probably want to seek out an electronics specialist site or a Saber Specialist site for that.

the hilt body itself will be the least of your problems. You'll have plenty of options just dropping into a hardware store and having a run around the plumbing section.


I'll also throw in a couple of links I've found handy in my builds:

Machining without machines
A Few Things I?ve Picked Up Along The Way
How To: Brass Caps for Tactile Switches

New to saber building? Where to start? List of great tutorials and other info! the tutorials here are a little outdated, but have plenty of valuable information for a beginner.

And that's all I've got. Best of luck with your build!

Anyone got any other ideas?
Better late than never.

Offline Callyste

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Re: First project "check-list" and advice seeking.
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2017, 04:32:58 AM »
Thanks a lot SirRawThunderMan!

That's an even better reply than I could hope for - and even longer than my initial, way-too-long post.


I live in France (coincidently, about 20 miles from Plecter Labs!), so your info narrows down my options. TCSS parts look quite what I need, so I guess I'll first contact JQ Sabers - if that fails, I guess I can still order directly from TCSS, if they will ship to France. I see they also offer a pre-built LED module, which is what I need (I'm not taking chances with building the LED module myself!)

Now the battery: I guess in that case I'll go with an AAA batteries holder. I don't want to take any chance with blowing up my friend's apartment (or mine). Ontop of that, I assume shipping such device from the US will be tricky with customs. Not counting having to find a charger, etc. The only issue I have with the AAA batteries, are how my friend will need to open the hilt to remove dead batteries to replace them. I suppose I *could* keep everything inside loose, as he won't be dueling with it, but... let's make it right ^^

The soundcard. Hmm, thanks for pointing this out. I hadn't realized that the soundcards from Plecter Labs were out of stock and so much demanded. This severely limits my options. I see that TCSS lists them as "in stock", I hope they will ship (back) to France? It would really be fantastic, especially if I can order the rest of the components I need from them. Less supplies, less hassle. And less shipping fees. If that doesn't work, I guess I'll look into the cheap line of Hasbro lightsabers, that I'm sure I can find.

Finally, before ordering MHS parts, I'll have a look at the plumbing section of hardware stores around where I live, but as I said, I'm not confident I can work with such materials - so I'll probably opt for TCSS, especially if I can order the soundcard at the same time, along with the necessary switch(es) and speaker.


In any case, thanks a lot once again, you allowed me to have a much clearer idea of what I need to make this work.

If you, or anyone else, has more input, or advice to give me, I'm taking! If this endeavor proves succesful, I might very well start building more sabers, for myself this time ^^

Offline Callyste

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Re: First project "check-list" and advice seeking.
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2017, 08:07:00 AM »
Oh, and I do have an additional question.
Sorry if this sounds tremendously stupid but... how does the LED+Heatsink module stay in place in the emitter, usually?

Offline SirRawThunderMan

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Re: First project "check-list" and advice seeking.
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2017, 09:59:47 AM »
Hey, not a problem, we all started out as beginners with similar questions.  :wink:

Right. If you're in France, it might be worth searching for a French Sabre specialist called Elegant Weapons. I've never used them myself, but they're one of the two European specialists (along with JQ Sabers, over here with me in the UK) that Plecter Labs announced would be stocking their products in the near future. Its always worth sending an email asking what they have in stock. You'll never know if you don't ask.

I know that JQ definitely have MHS parts in stock (their supply can be limited, though.)

As for the batteries, I would recommend a battery holder. you can get those on ebay pretty easily for fairly cheap. I would also recommend emailing Plecter Labs to ask for instructions on how to wire up a Pico Crumble with AAA batteries. I'm pretty sure that a 4AAA battery holder would put out a higher voltage than a Pico Crumble can handle (it's meant for Li-ion batteries, so it's expecting 3.7 volts, but a 4AAA holder would put out 6 volts. there are instructions in the Nano Biscotte user's manual for how to run an NB with 4AA batteries, but those instructions are absent in the Pico Crumble manual.)

Also, beware that if you're ordering from TCSS, they are not cheap. Quality wise, though, they're well worth the money, but all the same, not cheap. And on top of that, their international shipping fees are painful. I've made two orders before, the shipping was $60. then a £16 custom fee on top of that. Pretty fast shipping, though, both orders arrived within seven days. but not cheap.

As for your last question, honestly, I'm not sure. I think it's a friction fit. The blade holders have a specially machined hole in them that holds the LED assembly securely in place.

One last link: TCSS have a youtube Channel and they've got some pretty great videos that explain their products and how to build them up far better than I can.
TheCustomSaberShop - YouTube

MTFBWY!
Better late than never.

Offline Callyste

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Re: First project "check-list" and advice seeking.
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2017, 12:58:34 PM »
Thanks for the additional info!

In hindsight, I might just use a protected li-ion cell then - I can still use it as a removable cell after all?
Then I'll think about adding a recharge port, if wiring one isn't too complex.

There's still a couple of points I'm concerned about going the rechargeable LiIon way:

- I see these cells come in various mAh capacity. Is that of any concern? (beside battery life?)

- And finally: the charger. I see the one sold (currently out of stock) on TCSS delivers 4.2V @500mA. "Closest match" I can find on Amazon France so far is a universal charger, with various heads (including the 2.1mm/5.5). However, the output is only selectable between: 3V, 4.5V, 5V, and above, while amperage output is 1000mA. That seems waaaaaay off (from reading http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone.htm). Guess I'll scour the web for a 4.2v/500mA charger meant for Li-ion. It has to exist in Europe too!

Thank you again!

Offline QUI-GON JINN

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Re: First project "check-list" and advice seeking.
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2017, 02:35:53 PM »
Thanks for the additional info!

In hindsight, I might just use a protected li-ion cell then - I can still use it as a removable cell after all?
Then I'll think about adding a recharge port, if wiring one isn't too complex.

There's still a couple of points I'm concerned about going the rechargeable LiIon way:

- I see these cells come in various mAh capacity. Is that of any concern? (beside battery life?)

- And finally: the charger. I see the one sold (currently out of stock) on TCSS delivers 4.2V @500mA. "Closest match" I can find on Amazon France so far is a universal charger, with various heads (including the 2.1mm/5.5). However, the output is only selectable between: 3V, 4.5V, 5V, and above, while amperage output is 1000mA. That seems waaaaaay off (from reading http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone.htm). Guess I'll scour the web for a 4.2v/500mA charger meant for Li-ion. It has to exist in Europe too!

Thank you again!
The mAh rating is indicative of the batteries capacity,  and run time in between charges.  The higher,  the better off you'll be.  Most 18650 cells can be charged over 500ma,  so if you have a charger that can output 1000ma,  you'll still be able to safely charge the cell,  it'll just do it in half the time.  The chargers I include with my sabers actually have an output of 1500ma,  and I have no issues with recharging the cells.


Offline Callyste

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Re: First project "check-list" and advice seeking.
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2017, 04:51:43 PM »
The mAh rating is indicative of the batteries capacity,  and run time in between charges.  The higher,  the better off you'll be.  Most 18650 cells can be charged over 500ma,  so if you have a charger that can output 1000ma,  you'll still be able to safely charge the cell,  it'll just do it in half the time.  The chargers I include with my sabers actually have an output of 1500ma,  and I have no issues with recharging the cells.

Thanks Qui-Gon! That one concern down ^^
What about the Voltage though? Maybe I read it wrong, but that batteryuniversity read made it sound like trying to charge it with less than 3v would be pointless, while trying to charge it over 4.2v would potentially damage the battery. This charger I found only has 3v, 4.5v, 5v (and then higher) voltage settings.
If it can help, this is the one I was looking at:

CSL - Bloc d'alimentation universel 3 / 4,5 / 5 / 6 / 7,5 / 9 et 12 V AC/DC
Apologies for the French - but I guess most of the specs should be understandable in English.

I just know that messing around with Lithium batteries isn't to be taken lightly, so I really prefer to triple-check that kind of things. Before I blow up my apartment.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 04:56:13 PM by Callyste »

Offline Callyste

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Re: First project "check-list" and advice seeking.
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2017, 09:04:56 AM »
Quick update: ordered everything I (think I) need, all that will be missing is the LiIon cell (plenty around here I can order, with integrated PCB), a charger delivering 4.2v, and some wiring. Can't wait!

edit: of COURSE, I forgot the blade plug... guess I'll have to build one.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2017, 09:28:56 AM by Callyste »

Offline SirRawThunderMan

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Re: First project "check-list" and advice seeking.
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2017, 10:51:53 AM »
Always get the ones with the integrated protection circuits. Always.

a blade plug shouldn't be too hard to make by yourself.

Good luck! take some pictures and share them in the forum gallery when you're done, it's always cool to see what others have built!

MTFBWY!
Better late than never.

Offline Callyste

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Re: First project "check-list" and advice seeking.
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2017, 02:00:27 PM »
Always get the ones with the integrated protection circuits. Always.

a blade plug shouldn't be too hard to make by yourself.

Good luck! take some pictures and share them in the forum gallery when you're done, it's always cool to see what others have built!

MTFBWY!

Yes of course, I intended to get one with a PCB ^^ I don't want to blow my place up :p
I'll definitely take pictures before I give my friend the gift! Assuming I manage to build it and don't fry something - fingers crossed!

MTFSYW! ;)

 

retrousse