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Ahch-To: Instructional Section related to constructing your own Lightsaber => Component Blades - Neopixel / LED String blades => Topic started by: Obi_1 on March 02, 2016, 12:44:44 AM

Title: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: Obi_1 on March 02, 2016, 12:44:44 AM
Hi guys,

I want to share a new and exciting LED string technology emerging. It has the potential IMHO to change the way we think about LED strings.

To pay credit where credit is due, this opportunity has been brought to my attention first by racemaniac (see in my Arduino lightsaber thread), thanks for him to introduce me this unique technology!!!

So here is the trailer:
Who did not dream about building one day an LED string saber with the possibility for color change? Moreover, people assembling their LED strings know the pain of suddenly loosing an LED, solder joint coming loose, etc.

This just might be the answer to both of these major wishes. There is a new, prefab LED string on the market called neopixel (type WS2812), you can find a lot of offers on ebay, for instance:
1-2-5-Meter 60 Led´s/m WS2812B Streifen Stripe weiss RGB | eBay (http://www.ebay.de/itm/251739289830?...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)

Technically speaking these stripes mount LED modules on a flexible PCB, which can be cut at any LED position. The LED modules integrate:
- 3 colour, RGB LEDs in one package
- together with a tiny controller IC already integrated into the package of the LEDs

The controller can be programmed with a 1-line serial interface. It has for each of the colours an 8-bit PWM (pulse width modulation), summing up to 24-bit/LED module. The serial interface runs through the whole stripe, i.e. the aggregate of all LED modules act like a giant shift register, which can be programmed in one go.
To program it, you need only therefore 3 wires:
Wire#1: VDD supply (rated at 5V, but I tried, it's crazy, but it works down to 1.8V! 3.7V is ideally suited to supply the stripe!!!)
Wire#2: 1-line serial signal to program the stripe
Wire#3: GND

That's all!

The programming of the stripe can be done so fast, that you will not notice, so features like flicker, FoC etc. can be implemented very easily. Since ALL LEDs can be programmed individually (yeah, no joking), and the LED stripe can be cut at any joint, it would be ideally suited for Kylo Ren type crossguard sabers. You just make a stripe for the main blade, then 2 sub-stripes for either half of the cross guard, and connect the 3 stripes in series, programming them all together.

As to stability: they are mounted on a PCB, the backside of the stripes have a string 3M adhesive tape, for a blade you can simply glue 2 stripes together back-to-back, wrapped in a diffusing foil it will allow you to duel with it in my assessment. Looks very solid.

I made a video showing how it can be used for lightsaber blade.

The software running on my DIYino prototype board is the so called LSOS written by neskweek. I just included basic drivers for neopixel LED stripes. For the saber FX, all credit goes to neskweek, and racemaniac who started me off this path.

(Disclaimer: sorry for my bad spoken English, just ignore my ranting and enjoy the light show)
DIYino demo of Neopixel lightsaber blade with LSOS - YouTube (https://youtu.be/lyk8riXgIzM)

This video uses sound fonts from Soundfont.com, home of the best sound fonts ! I especially thank Novastar, Genesis Custom Sabers for their saber fonts (Novastar a and bespinII), and the creator of one of my favorites: Ancient Saber!

If you like Bruce Springsteen, you can also chill out at the end of the video with one of his hits  :afro:
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: erv on March 02, 2016, 01:08:57 AM
those strips have a lot of potential indeed. I've experimented this technology back in early 2015 with my tron legacy identity disc that can be seen here
Tron Legacy Identity disc (http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=45611.0)

and it's definitely inline with at least a variant of Crystal Focus LS v8. Though the programability factor is a plus, the drive of the power load and very high current remains an issue.
I also have to insist on the fragility of those strips (especially if you purchase the cheap ebay ones) compared to the "armpit-buddies" technique to built classic led strips.
The corn-on-the-cob results of such a blade (usually not seen on videos which over-flare) is also a problem.
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: Obi_1 on March 02, 2016, 06:55:44 AM

Now we can enter the technical discussion  :cheesy:

corn-on-the-cob? I guess you mean, that without proper diffusing the individual LEDs might be visible? Yes, this is true, currently this I see as a challenge. Diffusing such stripes is not easy, the LEDs are facing outside and I although the viewing angle is wide (120deg), you can still see the LEDs with a 60 LED/m stripe (the one I use on the video). True, that I did not invest much time into a proper diffusing, just tuck it into a leftover Hasbro LED strip foam.
But the newest, 144 LED/m stripes have the LEDs nearly touching each other, I assume there this problem will not arise.

But there is for sure a trade-off between LED density and power consumption. If all LEDs are driven fully, you have 60mA/LED, considering a 60LED/m and a 80cm long blade, 2 sided strip, it gives you 100 LEDs -> 6A. But this is not a realistic scenario. The 100 LEDs on my video drew ~1A from my PSU. Key is the supply voltage and the LED PWM drives. Although the stripes are specified for 5V, they do not need that much. It's a huge waste of power if you do in fact. Reason is, to protect the LEDs from overvoltage, these modules simply have clamps for each LED color, i.e. if you supply the module with 5V, the red LED needs ~2V, the rest is wasted over the clamp circuitry. But by supplying the stripe from a 3.7V battery, at least you are close to the Vth of the blue and red LEDs, the waste is minimal. And since you have a huge number of LEDs, it's recommended to operate them at the lower end of their characteristic curve.

As to the sturdiness, I do not have any evidence, but I disagree to your statement. I have a few arm-buddies LED string blades (I'm a huge fan of these), but they do need regular inspection/maintenance. The force if dueled with affects directly the solder joints, which anyway have always a tension inside (you can't have the leads completely parallel and straight), so the chance of breaking is there. In these stripes the LEDs are soldered on a PCB with the impact force affecting them perpendicularry to the stripe, the chance of popping them is minimal. I do not know about cheap ebay ones, I buy them from German sites on ebay.
Anyway, LED string blades are never meant for real stunt action, they are for display.

All in all I see big potential in it, anyway the only feasible way so far to build RGB LED string blades, in that it has no alternative so far. It also has a distinc advantage when it comes to wiring, only 3 wires, that's the bare minimum.
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: EXAR KUN on March 02, 2016, 07:12:00 AM
Love to see this in action with the 144 LED per meter string. I think that would nullify the corncob especially if you had two stuck back to back. MIght be some darker areas along the sides but even on standard LED string there is those legs that run down the side nothing you can do about that. Multiple diffusion layers will help to look not noticeable such as first the foam, then the TCSS diffuser (if can fit) then the TCSS trans white tube will also help here.

Wonderful, wonderful work here I thoroughly enjoyed your video and loved, loved, loved the 'fire' technique effect I think it was so fantastic like Archangel Gabriel's flaming sword. Amazing.

Truly this technology will eventually allow for the most configurable and realistic lightsaber experience... and you'll get to still keep all your limbs!

Really,... Obi your tests are fantastic keep doing this wonderful work I hope you can get those electronics into your saber one day soon and I'll see you swinging that fire sword around. Wow. 48 thumbs up great  :smiley:
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: livebyhonor on March 02, 2016, 09:58:05 AM
I was considering making a go at these for a saber project. NeoPixel Diffused 5mm Through-Hole LED - 5 Pack ID: 1938 - .95 : Adafruit (https://www.adafruit.com/products/1938) they are also neopixel but they are in the standard 5mm LED look. (there is also a 8mm version) so you can string it like we currently do it. the difficulty would be the soldering of the leads since there is no + and -, but rather + - data in and data out. but this would yield a very uniform blade look. but at the price for 5 your looking at a rather spendy test blade.
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: erv on March 02, 2016, 10:35:02 AM
I've tried the 8mm ones about 10 months ago. Not so bright and a little slow. I'm going to test the 5 mm soon though
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: EXAR KUN on March 02, 2016, 11:41:10 AM
Those shorter legs could be small issue. When I made a blade with 12mm LEDs I had to amend each leg with a longer lead it was a major PITA. Totally worth it in the long run but just saying that adds some solder joints and material. Hopefully if these work out we can find some with standard length legs although these could be long enough we will have to see with a test section or blade. Totally awesome stuff.
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: CET on March 02, 2016, 11:58:43 AM
Back to back would decrease viewing angles. I wonder how 3 of those strips could be fixed to and facing out from some sort of center rod. Wrap it up in a few layers of foam wrap and slide into a white translucent blade for extra diffusing and we could really have something.

Just not sure what type of center rod or affixing method would work best. Maybe very small gage zip ties and a solid nylon rod (1/4" or 1/2" diameter)?
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: Obi_1 on March 02, 2016, 12:22:22 PM
I was considering making a go at these for a saber project. NeoPixel Diffused 5mm Through-Hole LED - 5 Pack ID: 1938 - .95 : Adafruit (https://www.adafruit.com/products/1938) they are also neopixel but they are in the standard 5mm LED look. (there is also a 8mm version) so you can string it like we currently do it. the difficulty would be the soldering of the leads since there is no + and -, but rather + - data in and data out. but this would yield a very uniform blade look. but at the price for 5 your looking at a rather spendy test blade.

Hey buddy, thanks, just the thing I was looking for! I recalled I had seen this kind of cross-breed LEDs but I could not find them. WIth these 5mm format LEDs it would be indeed possible to build a string blade just like we are used to do it.
'course the 4 leads might make interconnects a bit complicated, I think there a similar stiffner/pcb combo like used by the Hasbro LED string saber could be feasible. After all the wiring is simple, even simpler than the Hasbros, all the signals just run the whole length of the stripe. It would be like a ladder, with the rugs holding the LEDs. IN such a design a lot less LEDs would be needed, so power consumption would be less of an issue. I guess ~70 would be enough.
I still have to figure out if the small cap is really needed. The smd 5050 LEDs all have them on the pcb, 100nF filter cap for the controller I guess.

Great feedbacks, always a pleasure to share ideas with this community! I can learn so much out of it myself, very rewarding!
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: Wolf69 on March 02, 2016, 12:53:49 PM
What a coincidence!

After building ly first string blade and being a bit disapointed i was watching sole leds on aliexpress and find exactly this:
1m/4m/5m WS2812B Smart led pixel strip,Black/White PCB,30/60/144 leds/m WS2812 (http://s.aliexpress.com/FJVzyuY7)

I was really curios about it but could only find a quick video on youtube where someone use it for a lightsaber.

I was tempted to buy two but the cost for 1m/144 was high, 17$

And i dont know how to drive it to choose the color.
Would you mind to explain a bit more about it?

How bright is it compared to a regular home made led string?

I m really glad to have been on the "unread section", thing i dont usually do!
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: CET on March 02, 2016, 02:04:48 PM
$17 for 1 meter of 144 LEDs sounds like a good buy to me. A little more expensive than getting bulk 5mm LEDs, but worth it, IMHO. The strips I've seen in electronics supply stores around town have about half as many LEDs per meter for 3x more money.
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: Wolf69 on March 02, 2016, 02:16:46 PM
Price for 100x5mm led is 3$, so much cheaper but i agree 17$ is not that high but 2x17$ for maybe somthing that could be useless, it could be throwing money!

That why i m really interested in feedback to laybe try it myself
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: EXAR KUN on March 02, 2016, 03:10:22 PM
Price for 100x5mm led is 3$, so much cheaper but i agree 17$ is not that high but 2x17$ for maybe somthing that could be useless, it could be throwing money!

That why i m really interested in feedback to laybe try it myself

5mm LEDs at three cents each are guaranteed crap. 
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: gucabe on March 02, 2016, 03:18:19 PM
i'ts been done before: Quick Demo of Cheerlight - LightSaber (Arduino Mega & NeoPixel Strip) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hif8RAUrESY)

Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: JakeSoft on March 02, 2016, 06:25:49 PM
Wow. That's pretty cool. I don't do string blades because the idea of spending hours soldering LEDs together sounds a lot like torture to me, but this looks like a nice flexible and easy alternative.
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: Obi_1 on March 03, 2016, 12:53:50 AM
Price for 100x5mm led is 3$, so much cheaper but i agree 17$ is not that high but 2x17$ for maybe somthing that could be useless, it could be throwing money!

That why i m really interested in feedback to laybe try it myself

17$ for 1m of the 144LED/m type is insanely cheap!!! In Europe I cannot find an offer below 40EUR.
But as mentioned above, 100 LED for 3$ is a lot of time wasted, they are crap. The LED string blades I built have LED's costing at least 40cents/LED. And they are xxx bright.

Anyway, for sure this is a new technology and therefore costly. I will not quote the mantra that "hey, lightsaber building is a costly hobby", because I hate it myself when thrown in my face, I can only say that electronics prizes go down fast, in 1-2 years max you can have these stripes for an affordable price. For now, if you want to have it, you have to pay for the R&D.
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: Wolf69 on March 03, 2016, 02:05:20 AM
Its all a matter of comparison, beacause of i can avoid the construction of a led string with these the cost would save me a lot of time!
Like you said i was taking about the R&D price.

In you opinion, is this brighter than a normal led string?

What 5mm led do you use? Any links?

And finally how do you control the color? Can a NB or a naigon osundboard can do it since they have rgb control?
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: erv on March 03, 2016, 02:08:27 AM
And finally how do you control the color? Can a NB or a naigon osundboard can do it since they have rgb control?

no, not as it is. Color and blade behavior is all digital and requires a totally new programming and system to drive such a strip.
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: livebyhonor on March 03, 2016, 04:23:15 AM
yea even though they are technically a  string blade its a totaly different architecture so even a LS board would do nothing to a neo pixel string. may have the power to run it for a bit bit not the needed programming. and i think you would need 3 or 4 meters in a saber blade anyway. in a triangle formation or square to give all around color. and if 1 meter runs about 5A. wow. 20 A for a 4 sided blade.
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: erv on March 03, 2016, 07:44:58 AM
Correct. I had to put 2 cells in // in my tron disc and it's "only" 196 LEDs on which I even had to tune the color down to avoid tripping the PCB, even if using quality cells.
IMO the strip design as it is with 5050 leds is a waste of time as the form factor of the led itself goes against what we need for a blade. Reason why I've experimented with other LEDs. I might spend the time to assemble an armpit buddies like blade with them and see if I can get a uniform blade.
I have everything on hands except free time  :cheesy:
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: EXAR KUN on March 03, 2016, 07:50:40 AM
Correct. I had to put 2 cells in // in my tron disc and it's "only" 196 LEDs on which I even had to tune the color down to avoid tripping the PCB, even if using quality cells.
IMO the strip design as it is with 5050 leds is a waste of time as the form factor of the led itself goes against what we need for a blade. Reason why I've experimented with other LEDs. I might spend the time to assemble an armpit buddies like blade with them and see if I can get a uniform blade.
I have everything on hands except free time  :cheesy:

Let me know what method to wire up the blade I'll make you a blade using the 5mm LEDs shown above and send it to you to test
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: erv on March 03, 2016, 07:54:20 AM
very kind offer :-)
I currently have like 200 of the 8mm ones that I could use eventually but I'll be in touch once I have a LS board on hands (soon, promised)
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: Obi_1 on March 03, 2016, 08:38:35 AM
yea even though they are technically a  string blade its a totaly different architecture so even a LS board would do nothing to a neo pixel string. may have the power to run it for a bit bit not the needed programming. and i think you would need 3 or 4 meters in a saber blade anyway. in a triangle formation or square to give all around color. and if 1 meter runs about 5A. wow. 20 A for a 4 sided blade.

With all due respect I think you guys got a (large) bit carried away. 4m? 20A? Now please let me steer this discussion back to a realistic common ground.
I talk about 2 stripes back-to-back, with 144LED/m. A 32" blade is ~8-cm. Not 1m. And 32" is quite long, I prefer 30". So worst (best) case we talk about 160cm of LED string -> 230 LEDs, if all LEDs are driven fully, you 13.8A. Huge, but a very unrealistic scenario. I count with 20mA/LED static, that gives me ~4.5A.
Actually when it comes to LED density, I would wish something between 144 and 60 (the 2 types you can find easily on ebay), say 90L/m. Since this technology is pretty new, I guess over the years we will see a whole bunch of densities.

But for sure for those of us who enjoy building their own LED string from single LEDs, a neopixel blade with armpitbuddies design is definitely a worthy challenge. I will first experiment with the stripes, but since I also count to "those of us", sooner or later I will also end up armbuddiing single neopixs :)
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: TheBaconWizard on March 04, 2016, 01:44:28 AM
 Guys, you CAN get through-hole neopixels (a specific adafruit  brand addressable LED)

NeoPixel Diffused 8mm Through-Hole LED - 5 Pack ID: 1734 - .95 : Adafruit (https://www.adafruit.com/products/1734)

These ones are 8mm and diffused: I'm not sure how the diffusion will affect the results. Less to diffuse in the blade, I guess.

They also come in 5mm, but I think too much of the package is taken-up with the driver to leave a dark spot, whereas in the 8mm it isn't so noticeable.

So basically, you need as many LEDs as would normally go in a string blade, or less.
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: erv on March 04, 2016, 01:59:38 AM
Guys, you CAN get through-hole neopixels (a specific adafruit  brand addressable LED)
/quote]

as already discussed above.
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: neskweek on March 04, 2016, 04:32:53 PM
Hello there !

Protonerd did convert me with his nice video too.
I just ordered 2m of those 144LED/m (1m cost :around 17$ => IP30 ones - we don't care about waterproofing :p)
2 stripes back to back should be quite enough with proper diffusing.

As for power I planned 2x18650 cells (~2200 mA each).

If I can get at least 30 min of play time with that blade I will be more than happy.

I have to wait 3 week until delivery tho ...
I'll make a video anyway.


As for standalone NeoPixel LEDs, something to consider is they are really expensive ones (around 100 leds for a blade => 500$ T_T). 10x more than a stripe ! That's quite too much to "maybe" address diffusion problem, at least to my eyes.

[edit]
I was tired and didn't saw they sell those as a 5pack. :P so around 100$ blade using 100 through-hole LED;) That's reasonable then.

Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: TheBaconWizard on March 04, 2016, 07:42:21 PM
DUDE, this is why I posted just above..   a single string/strip as sold by Adafruit is fine for prototyping, but if you want to build a stringblade that's good, then you don't need to do ANY of that with multiple strings.

Just use through-hole ones in the usual way. Much cheaper, much more even, much easier to drive and control. Probably brighter with some work (flatten the ends by sanding)
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: Obi_1 on March 05, 2016, 11:49:06 AM

I hope they will offer some with clear dome, diffused LEDs are dull, well, they have to, because they are not designed with lightsabers in mind, but applications where they should signal something to people looking at them with the naked eye. Not something I recommend doing with the LEDs we usually use in this hobby for LED string blades...

I'm just thinking about how to do the armpit trick with 4 leads...GND and VCC are OK, but data-in and data-out must go diagonally to the next stage. But I fully trust the imagination of this community.

BTW, I tried today the 144LED/m type in a transwhite TCSS blade, it looks very even for me even without any additional diffusing, I definitely do not see the single LEDs like with the 60LED/m type. It's very promising.

Hey, I also would welcome smaller modules like what we use for PLI with the same technology. There definitely a single line drive would be a clear advantage as well.
Or maybe a saber hilt similar to Erv's superb Tron disk, lighting up from inside before igniting the blade. OK, maybe I am getting carried away.
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: TheBaconWizard on March 05, 2016, 12:24:54 PM

I'm just thinking about how to do the armpit trick with 4 leads...GND and VCC are OK, but data-in and data-out must go diagonally to the next stage. But I fully trust the imagination of this community.


As a suggestion: armpit the data leads at 90deg from the V+ and V-, so you end up with leads North and South for supply and East/West for data.
Alternate which way you bend them (ie, if data-out went to compass West with V+ orientated North, then do it to East next time. So when you ladder the whole thing, your Vsupply leads are parallel, but data is serial.

Might need a little marker pen to dot all the ones that are in one orientation, and store them in a separate box.

----

I wonder if the diffusion is just media-blasted surface, or something included in the resin itself.
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: EXAR KUN on March 05, 2016, 01:40:07 PM

Or maybe a saber hilt similar to Erv's superb Tron disk, lighting up from inside before igniting the blade. OK, maybe I am getting carried away.

No I don't think you're crazy I'm working on a saber like that!
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: neskweek on March 05, 2016, 04:05:41 PM
Yesterday I was tired and I didn't read adafruit's info correctly regarding through-hole leds price : they sell them as a 5 pack :P. That would make a 100$ blade.

Anyway Erv stated those 8mm were slow.
That still quite anoys me.

So I googled more and found that :
http://www.led-genial.de/mediafiles//Sonstiges/PL9823.pdf (http://www.led-genial.de/mediafiles//Sonstiges/PL9823.pdf)
http://cdn2.boxtec.ch/pub/diverse/P9823.pdf (http://cdn2.boxtec.ch/pub/diverse/P9823.pdf)
and also those
APA-106 F8 F5 LED 2014.pdf - Google Drive (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9Fu0H-K23r2TjNDQmJXaDRWcUU/edit)

Don't know if they are any better on speed or brightness (all of those datasheets are quite obscures I even suspect them to be false since I found several ones with different infos for WS2812 and SK6812) but they are trully better on price range.
And they are 100% compatible with neopixel protocols.



One of the demo video I found on youtube


I did cancel my 144/m Strip (I still could) and ordered a bunch of those to try out instead.
 


 
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: TheBaconWizard on March 06, 2016, 03:32:37 AM
Can't tell exactly, but it looks to me like the 5mm ones in this datasheet are clear rather than diffused.
Wish they'd just do a clear 8mm :(

APA-106 F8 F5 LED 2014.pdf - Google Drive (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9Fu0H-K23r2TjNDQmJXaDRWcUU/edit)
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: neskweek on March 06, 2016, 04:50:41 AM
5mm are better choice IMO:
since 8mm and 5mm share the same mcd ratings (looking at those datasheets) using 5mm allows you to put more of them in the blade.
2 or 3 strings of those would end up producing a nice brightness.
I said "strings" but you can make a 3x100 matrix out of them which is even more interesting.

I didn't ordered some yet, I'm waiting an answer from factory: they are maybe able to produce brighter leds.
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: TheBaconWizard on March 06, 2016, 05:12:24 AM
Hopefully you'll keep us informed? I notice an arduino pro-trinket fits inside a saber hilt ok.
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: neskweek on March 08, 2016, 12:36:34 AM
Hopefully you'll keep us informed? I notice an arduino pro-trinket fits inside a saber hilt ok.
Hey there. Sure it will be my pleasure.
But I first have to say that I change my mind (again).
I did ordered 3xWS2812B 144/m led strip:


As for power consumption, it should end up to be quite equal (with a less brightness render for through-hole at least compared to P9823: one bulb is rated at 59mA, all colors light up). I'm going to use 2xliPo 3000maH 60C battery cell to power those.

As a side note I found a lot (A LOT) of different types of adressable ledstrings. (WS2812, WS2812B, SK6812, SK6812RGBW, APA102, APA106,... not exhaustive list)

Not sure the one I choosed would be the best suited for our use but I'm quite tired of searching through unprecise/incomplete datasheets.
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: Obi_1 on March 08, 2016, 06:14:28 AM

Or maybe a saber hilt similar to Erv's superb Tron disk, lighting up from inside before igniting the blade. OK, maybe I am getting carried away.

No I don't think you're crazy I'm working on a saber like that!
Wow, EPIC! Can't wait to see that! Will it have windows to let the light through? What do you use for diffusing?
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: TheBaconWizard on March 08, 2016, 10:57:59 AM

But I first have to say that I change my mind (again).
I did ordered 3xWS2812B 144/m led strip:

  • Brightness wise it would be the best choice IMHO:
    Through-hole LEDs rate as bright as a single of this strip cell and strip cell are oriented towards the blade walls, so it can't be beaten, right now.
  • You might call me lazy :P but having thrown a second thought on soldering a 3X100 matrix to fit into a blade... It "scared" me a little. I'm not sure the result will be gainfull in terms of time-spent compared to ledstrips. It might also be quite less cheaper (trial and errors... you know... often end up with burnt leds)
  • Solidity : mounting correctly those ledstrips might end with a more robust blade than a homemade ledstring.
I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect you won't fit 3 strips into a blade with diffusion, and 2 strips back to back will leave the blade unlit for 60degrees on each edge, Again, I'm keen to know. [/list]
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: EXAR KUN on March 09, 2016, 07:36:43 AM

Or maybe a saber hilt similar to Erv's superb Tron disk, lighting up from inside before igniting the blade. OK, maybe I am getting carried away.

No I don't think you're crazy I'm working on a saber like that!
Wow, EPIC! Can't wait to see that! Will it have windows to let the light through? What do you use for diffusing?

I'm going to try and use 3-D printed plastic parts as the body (scalloped section) of a 'Qui Gon-like' saber and have the sequenced LED 'blinkies' to rise up and down the hilt along with the blade. I think this would be so sick! Here are some really rudimentary sketches I made lol:

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1008.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf202%2FSpaceWindu%2FBlingSaber_04_zpsmhcc6aym.jpg&hash=d433c6cb37635255922102f5da7d3564cdd3ddf9) (http://s1008.photobucket.com/user/SpaceWindu/media/BlingSaber_04_zpsmhcc6aym.jpg.html)

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1008.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf202%2FSpaceWindu%2FBlingSaber01_zpseazygegn.jpg&hash=74db3cc31c3e232945e7041287f1e2d248413440) (http://s1008.photobucket.com/user/SpaceWindu/media/BlingSaber01_zpseazygegn.jpg.html)

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1008.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf202%2FSpaceWindu%2FBlingSaber03_zps2beff97t.jpg&hash=673431fe0b278deda7f4a4755df3735afbeca19a) (http://s1008.photobucket.com/user/SpaceWindu/media/BlingSaber03_zps2beff97t.jpg.html)

I hope to work on this more later in the year with another member here... maybe make two of them.
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: Wilbur on March 18, 2016, 02:12:53 PM
I think I remember someone mentioning it before but would you mind drawing up a simple wiring diagram to see how you wired these?  Shouldn't you be able to run two strips in a parallel configuration with a 7.4 v pack?
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: TheBaconWizard on March 18, 2016, 04:08:27 PM
i'ts been done before: Quick Demo of Cheerlight - LightSaber (Arduino Mega & NeoPixel Strip) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hif8RAUrESY)

That example is dreadfully uneven though, nowhere near the standard of an ordinary string.
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: neskweek on March 19, 2016, 01:45:29 AM
i'ts been done before: Quick Demo of Cheerlight - LightSaber (Arduino Mega & NeoPixel Strip) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hif8RAUrESY)

It has already been done several times, yeah. I think I've saw 3 or 4 different guys on youtube.

This guy having achieved, to my eyes, the best result so far:

His thread (http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=366701.0)
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: TheBaconWizard on March 19, 2016, 03:15:14 AM
i'ts been done before: Quick Demo of Cheerlight - LightSaber (Arduino Mega & NeoPixel Strip) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hif8RAUrESY)

That looks pretty cool. I'm sure an ordinary ladder style will be better, BUT, I stand to be corrected and yes if it can yield a decent result and save people the fiddle of constructing it then great! I am sure the LEDs will get smaller and more tightly packed.

It has already been done several times, yeah. I think I've saw 3 or 4 different guys on youtube.

This guy having achieved, to my eyes, the best result so far:

His thread (http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=366701.0)
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: neskweek on March 20, 2016, 01:48:58 PM
Just my 3 cent stripes :


Work in progress
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: EXAR KUN on March 20, 2016, 05:03:50 PM
Omg that's so crazy awesome
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: Wilbur on March 20, 2016, 08:21:01 PM
Just my 3 cent stripes :


Work in progress

That looks great!  what batteries were those?  I couldn't make out the writing on the cell
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: neskweek on March 21, 2016, 01:36:57 AM
I use those 18350  (http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Efest%20IMR18350%20700mAh%20(Purple)%202014%20UK.html)on the video because my olds 18650 test batterys (http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/AW%20IMR%2018650%202000mAh%20(Red)%20UK.html) were charging.
Right now I only have  IMR (Lithium Manganese Rechargeable) battery cell at home because as I vape , I need highdrain batteries.

ICR (Lithium Cobalt Rechargeable) batteries may hold more power but they have lower discharge current ratings.
For this application they should be ok to use too.
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: Obi_1 on March 26, 2016, 11:36:24 AM
I think I remember someone mentioning it before but would you mind drawing up a simple wiring diagram to see how you wired these?  Shouldn't you be able to run two strips in a parallel configuration with a 7.4 v pack?

Remember, they are not just LEDs, but a driver circuitry integrated. And they are not designed for floating supply. But hey, why would you want 7.4? You can have 2x3.7V for greater capacity.
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: KingOfDathomir on July 23, 2016, 01:57:20 AM
What about region-of-impact effects for, say FoC and lock-up or random-location blaster deflection effects along the string? Or am I getting ahead of myself with the Arduino's capabilities....?

*brain exlodes*
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: Obi_1 on July 24, 2016, 01:09:37 PM
What about region-of-impact effects for, say FoC and lock-up or random-location blaster deflection effects along the string? Or am I getting ahead of myself with the Arduino's capabilities....?

*brain exlodes*

Certainly such gimmicks are in the realm of possibilities for neopixels, it's just a matter of programming. It's also not outside the Arduino's capabilities, but it's like with other aspects of lightsaber building: it's a bit about cram-fu, if you want to put in many things, you might run out of code space. But the situation is not so dramatic as with hilts (I speak from experience...:) )

I guess as people will start to build sabers with neopixels, we will see a lot of innovative ideas emerging, for code, for diffusing, for better supply concept etc. It's a new tecnology, thus plenty of opportunity to contribute.
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: JakeSoft on July 24, 2016, 06:25:20 PM
What about region-of-impact effects for, say FoC and lock-up or random-location blaster deflection effects along the string? Or am I getting ahead of myself with the Arduino's capabilities....?

*brain exlodes*

Based on my own personal experience and what I've seen other folks doing on the Arduino forums, this seems well within the capabilities of the Arduino + NeoPixel solution.
Title: Re: LED string saber evolution - this might change the way we think about LED string
Post by: Obi_1 on July 25, 2016, 01:52:36 PM
For those interested in the technical details, I've made a characterization of the WS2812B type neopixel blade to obtain:
- current of the individual LEDs as a function of supply voltage
- subjective brightness as a function of supply voltage

The charts and measurement results can be found here:
http://github.com/Protonerd/DIYino/blob/master/Neopixels_Characterisation_report1.pdf (http://github.com/Protonerd/DIYino/blob/master/Neopixels_Characterisation_report1.pdf)