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Author Topic: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order  (Read 74211 times)

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Offline Caine

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Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
« Reply #90 on: February 08, 2013, 02:12:54 AM »
Wow.

I am thoroughly disappointed.  >:(

I was just browsing YouTube and there are dozens upon dozens of videos of the 7 Forms and I must say, the comments, as well as the overall instruction leave a lot to be desired.

Back in 2008, before I started posting my original videos, there was literally nothing on YT for saber combat forms. Now, there is a great deal of people pretending to be instructors, that appear to have limited experience in martial arts or even stage combat that are posting these "tutorials" and even worse, people are actually following them. They read book and BOOM...instant experts.  :P

Either that, or people get into an argument over what 'this' form and 'that' form is truly about instead of just letting others forms their own opinions...they feel that "canon" is the only way.  :(

Awful.

Props to people like the folks at Terra Prime Lightsaber Academy who are actively keeping the forms going with their real martial arts experience and hopefully reaching out to those who want to learn real saberplay.

I am staying away from YouTube these days because of the above reasons. I will stick to focusing on digital downloads via sabercombat.com for my versions of the 7 Forms that are on the drawing board.

Stay tuned.  8)

Offline Veldryne_Drakx

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Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
« Reply #91 on: February 08, 2013, 05:57:35 AM »
There is a benefit to youtube though, for folks who take their saberplay seriously, we are able to post our videos.

That way those of us who are "learners in exile" as the TPLA refers to us can post videos of our stuff so that you and Master Nonymous can review it and give us some pointers.

Just ignore the kowakian monkey lizards that are trying to teach without knowing what they are talking about.



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Offline Caine

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Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
« Reply #92 on: February 08, 2013, 10:24:02 AM »
There is a benefit to youtube though, for folks who take their saberplay seriously, we are able to post our videos.

That way those of us who are "learners in exile" as the TPLA refers to us can post videos of our stuff so that you and Master Nonymous can review it and give us some pointers.

Just ignore the kowakian monkey lizards that are trying to teach without knowing what they are talking about.

LOL, " kowakian monkey lizards", love it!  Haha!

Yeah, I know there are the benefits.  ;)   I guess I just see a lot of trolling also.

Offline Darth Nonymous

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Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
« Reply #93 on: February 09, 2013, 06:39:13 AM »
Thank you for the shout out Master Caine! We at TPLA strive to raise the bar on the practice. The Martial arts is such a huge thing to us, we want to spread it. It is good to have ones peers notice one's efforts.

We have had enough people comment on our videos about how this is not Makashi, or what not. But I think that attitude comes from ignorance. Even in real martial arts it doesn't work that way. Styles and lineages are like families-not everyone is just like everyone else,but they are all related. Just because I don't know the guy with my last name doesn't mean he isn't a Smith (or what ever).

When folks start tlaking like "That's not such and such a Form" it is very hard for me not to just tune out and ignore it. It is already tiresome when taling about MMA vs. TKD, but doing it with fictional styles from Star Wars....sigh.

As far as substandard instruction: I have always taken my teacher's advice. The only answer to poor instruction is excellent instruction. The crap will fall off as long as there are those in the community disciplined enough to raise standards and expectations. Sure you can get any 15 year old who just got a new saber doing the Obi/Ani ( grrrrrr hate that name) and thinking it is some how a marker of mastery. Got news for people, those spins are basic. Like first week basic in the sword arts I have studied.

Then you get the yahoos who proclaim how much experience they have and how long they have been practicing...alone.... in their backyard...without a teacher. With those folks it's like talking to a child who thinks they are 35. All you can do is chuckle and hope they don't get hurt too bad when they find out how little that means.

So I agree it's like Deadwood crossed with Dumb and Dumber. But, that's kind of the price of access. I hope you wont stray too far, there certainly aren't a lot of us out there.

Hang in there!  It can be lonely at the top. :)

I am looking forward to your revised Forms. I hope the project is coming along.
We do not rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training.

Offline Caine

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Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
« Reply #94 on: February 21, 2013, 10:34:27 AM »
Thank you for the shout out Master Caine! We at TPLA strive to raise the bar on the practice. The Martial arts is such a huge thing to us, we want to spread it. It is good to have ones peers notice one's efforts.

We have had enough people comment on our videos about how this is not Makashi, or what not. But I think that attitude comes from ignorance. Even in real martial arts it doesn't work that way. Styles and lineages are like families-not everyone is just like everyone else,but they are all related. Just because I don't know the guy with my last name doesn't mean he isn't a Smith (or what ever).

When folks start tlaking like "That's not such and such a Form" it is very hard for me not to just tune out and ignore it. It is already tiresome when taling about MMA vs. TKD, but doing it with fictional styles from Star Wars....sigh.

As far as substandard instruction: I have always taken my teacher's advice. The only answer to poor instruction is excellent instruction. The crap will fall off as long as there are those in the community disciplined enough to raise standards and expectations. Sure you can get any 15 year old who just got a new saber doing the Obi/Ani ( grrrrrr hate that name) and thinking it is some how a marker of mastery. Got news for people, those spins are basic. Like first week basic in the sword arts I have studied.

Then you get the yahoos who proclaim how much experience they have and how long they have been practicing...alone.... in their backyard...without a teacher. With those folks it's like talking to a child who thinks they are 35. All you can do is chuckle and hope they don't get hurt too bad when they find out how little that means.

So I agree it's like Deadwood crossed with Dumb and Dumber. But, that's kind of the price of access. I hope you wont stray too far, there certainly aren't a lot of us out there.

Hang in there!  It can be lonely at the top. :)

I am looking forward to your revised Forms. I hope the project is coming along.

Well said. It's exactly what I have been saying for YEARS.

Glad to see our minds think alike.  ;)   Whether they are "great minds" or not, I guess we just have to see how many people we reach and accept it.  :D

Offline GuardianKex

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Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
« Reply #95 on: August 13, 2013, 05:39:24 AM »
Wow.

I am thoroughly disappointed.  >:(

I was just browsing YouTube and there are dozens upon dozens of videos of the 7 Forms and I must say, the comments, as well as the overall instruction leave a lot to be desired.

Back in 2008, before I started posting my original videos, there was literally nothing on YT for saber combat forms. Now, there is a great deal of people pretending to be instructors, that appear to have limited experience in martial arts or even stage combat that are posting these "tutorials" and even worse, people are actually following them. They read book and BOOM...instant experts.  :P


Was reading through the thread and found this.
But yes Caine, it is awful. There are lots of this these days where people claim to be experts. From a music standpoint, anytime you YT a song you like, you can often find a bunch of tutorials on how to play it, and often it's just the chords. It will have nothing to do with the nuances of the song, the fingerpicking, the stylistic things, just the chords. And yet they get hundreds of thousands of views on their videos.
My little music rant over :P
But that's just the nature of the beast in today's world. You can post anything on the internet in seconds, and you have access to sooo much information, that you can read one wikipedia page and make a viral video based on it.  It becomes a challenge to make sure what you see/read/hear/post is valid and credible.

ALSO, forgot to give props to you Caine, love your work!
"Go Padawan. You must walk a different path."
~Jedi Knight Rando Kex

Offline Caine

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Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
« Reply #96 on: August 13, 2013, 09:57:07 AM »
Agreed very much...and thank you, sir!

Offline Caine

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Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
« Reply #97 on: August 20, 2013, 01:33:22 PM »
Just an update on my end...

My personal  7 Forms project is shelved indefinitely. There are so many others that do it now, my work seems to have take a back seat. It was pioneering at the time (2008-2009) but recently, I am just another person who's interpretation is just added to the mix. Some people don't even remember me, lol.

Regardless of my extensive martial arts knowledge and experience, the vast majority of saber peeps don't really care about that. They just want to swing their sabers around and call their personal "style" one of the 7 Forms of Combat names because they either like the name or the character it's associated with, lol.

I am focusing my saber combat work on other aspects. Hopefully, we can see more proper variations of the 7 Forms from more experienced folks, such as TPLA, etc. My work is done here, lol.

Time to move on.  8)

Offline Onli-Won Kanomi

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Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
« Reply #98 on: August 20, 2013, 02:13:48 PM »
I remember, and I point it out whenever the subject comes up on any forum I visit. Just the other night I pointed out your contribution to a noob who is with TPLA.

Yes others do it now but you are the pioneer in that aspect of this hobby and no one can take that away from you. If you feel your work is done on that aspect of saberplay then be justly proud it was done WELL and you left a strong foundation for those who come after to build on.
To DREAM the IMPOSSIBLE DREAM. To FIGHT the unbeatable foe. To BEAR with unbearable sorrow. To RUN where the brave dare not go. To RIGHT the unrightable wrong. To LOVE, PURE AND CHASTE, FROM AFAR [-sigh-]. To TRY, when your arms are too weary; to REACH the unreachable Star!... This is my Quest; To follow that Star, no matter how hopeless, no matter how far...

Offline Falcon

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Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
« Reply #99 on: August 20, 2013, 02:19:48 PM »
Hey Caine,

I also happened upon this post then went to utube...the tears of laughter are still streaming down my eyes as I watched some guy trying to explain how to grip a lightsaber? His technique is how to hold a katana! You Caine are a serious "real" martial artist! Don't let these children distract you from the art. How many times have you seen guys show up to train and as soon as they get a belt/rank they leave so they can boast to their friends "I'm a martial artist". This is exactly the same thing. Let me tell you something you already know...belts mean nothing. When you spar/fight someone you learn very quickly their level of skill by they way they move. Forgive me if you guys have already had a long conversation about this point: lightsaber katas/forms should be somewhat different then our present martial arts movements because of the dynamics of a "real' lightsaber. Meaning the only time your really using strength movements is when the blades contact each other. It makes me think of kendo..the quickest jab to the throat or wrist will win the fight. I do completely understand your frustration..but the ones who seek the truth will eventually find it or you...

Offline Caine

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Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
« Reply #100 on: August 20, 2013, 04:08:02 PM »
I am pretty much "over" frustration, and have just accepted it as the norm these days. I am neither bitter, nor do I have any regrets when it comes to my past work. For the ones who I influenced, I appreciate them and their open minds very much!  :)  It is just time to move forward with other aspects of saber combat.

Offline Darth Nonymous

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Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
« Reply #101 on: September 03, 2013, 08:17:58 PM »
I remember, and I point it out whenever the subject comes up on any forum I visit. Just the other night I pointed out your contribution to a noob who is with TPLA.
Just to set the record straight...

 TPLA has always acknowledged Caine's and Novastar's contribution to the hobby. Caine has been on the show twice and we love having him. It is always a a pleasure and a privilege to converse with Caine.

I can speak for all of us at TPLA that we appreciate everything they have done for this community and would love to do more with them in the future. I have the highest respect.

 That is the official TPLA stance on this matter.
We do not rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training.

Offline Onli-Won Kanomi

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Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
« Reply #102 on: September 05, 2013, 09:55:25 PM »
Yipes...I think I had another "open mouth - insert foot" moment there. :(

Darth Nonymous looking at it again I see that I could/should have more accurately said "pointed out your [Caine's] contribution while discussing the history of the hobby with someone who said he was a noob and student of TPLA" rather than "pointed out your contribution to a noob who is with TPLA" which might be misconstrued in a way I didn't intend to suggest I was speaking about you or TPLA itself not knowing or acknowledging Caine - which is not so, which I did not mean, and I want to clarify my error now [I honestly didn't think at the time that anyone could misconstrue it that way since neither of you are "noobs" because of your extensive experience with swords but I should not have left any ambiguity about who or what I was and was not speaking about...instead I messed up. Mea Culpa.].

You are absolutely right that TPLA has always given due credit in every one of your videos I've seen, including those you mention, and it was never my intention to suggest otherwise nor to say anything negative about either of you or TPLA whatsoever since my view of your work is entirely positive, I respect you both and I am sorry if it seemed otherwise.

I apologize to you and the saber community for my poor choice of words leaving any wrong impression and wish all the best in the future for TerraPrime as I do for Caine and Novastar...MTFBWY always.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 09:59:04 PM by Onli-Won Kanomi »
To DREAM the IMPOSSIBLE DREAM. To FIGHT the unbeatable foe. To BEAR with unbearable sorrow. To RUN where the brave dare not go. To RIGHT the unrightable wrong. To LOVE, PURE AND CHASTE, FROM AFAR [-sigh-]. To TRY, when your arms are too weary; to REACH the unreachable Star!... This is my Quest; To follow that Star, no matter how hopeless, no matter how far...

Offline Darth Nonymous

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Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
« Reply #103 on: September 06, 2013, 11:06:33 AM »
Yipes...I think I had another "open mouth - insert foot" moment there. :(

Darth Nonymous looking at it again I see that I could/should have more accurately said "pointed out your [Caine's] contribution while discussing the history of the hobby with someone who said he was a noob and student of TPLA" rather than "pointed out your contribution to a noob who is with TPLA" which might be misconstrued in a way I didn't intend to suggest I was speaking about you or TPLA itself not knowing or acknowledging Caine - which is not so, which I did not mean, and I want to clarify my error now [I honestly didn't think at the time that anyone could misconstrue it that way since neither of you are "noobs" because of your extensive experience with swords but I should not have left any ambiguity about who or what I was and was not speaking about...instead I messed up. Mea Culpa.].

You are absolutely right that TPLA has always given due credit in every one of your videos I've seen, including those you mention, and it was never my intention to suggest otherwise nor to say anything negative about either of you or TPLA whatsoever since my view of your work is entirely positive, I respect you both and I am sorry if it seemed otherwise.

I apologize to you and the saber community for my poor choice of words leaving any wrong impression and wish all the best in the future for TerraPrime as I do for Caine and Novastar...MTFBWY always.
No worries! Thanks for the clarification. We are all about community and misunderstanding are bound to happen. It is great when we can work things out.

Thank you again for the clarification and apology (although none is really needed) I have great respect for that kind of honorable action. Which is in short supply these days. Kudos!

MTFBWY and Happy Sabering!
We do not rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training.

Offline Cavjo

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Re: The 7 Forms of the Old Jedi Order
« Reply #104 on: May 15, 2015, 11:04:58 AM »
Hello guys i was looking at the posts and i can't seem to find the videos of the 7 forms you guys are talking about , sorry if i am missing them  :shy:, but could some one help me thanks!!








 

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