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Author Topic: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!  (Read 24631 times)

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Offline DarthYoda

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #75 on: January 01, 2016, 02:29:32 PM »
Online DarthYoda
 
Re: [SPOILERS] What gave you goosebumps/shivers in The Force Awakens
« Reply #36 on: Today at 03:17:26 PM »
QUOTE
MODIFY
Background: mega huge Star Wars fan. Sorry I haven't been on this board much lately. First hearing Disney acquiring Star Wars = heart broken. Then hear they are making a new one = will see what they can do. Heard original cast coming back = super hyped. Saw trailer = This looks very promising.

Now, went to see this a couple days after release. Was super hyped and was ready to see what they did. During film, felt good, this is great, they leave plant and meet Han. I face palm. What the heck? He returned being a smuggler? His character built him to be better than this in the previous movies!

Ok, everything's back to ok status and the falcon is flying free. Han starts talking about the force. Face palms again. What? Where the bleep is Luke at? A Jedi should be saying this info. It's just out of place.

Get to Liea. Face palm again. You telling me they haven't gotten married or even stayed together all this time? No wander Ren is a whinny tard! Then see R2. In standby mode? Face palms, no r2 action? Disappointed, rather would have seen 3po like that. Ok deep breaths.

Lightsaber, ok ok wait up. You telling me, someone found the saber that was cut off in a sky planet? Ok I want to know how.....never explained.

Getting perturbed.

More awesome flight of falcon to get to that star killer. Impressive. Gets plasma from sun. Ok interesting. All heck breaks loose awesome nice x-wing stunts. Han never asked to use his bow before? All these years? What? How it get that powerful? Ok that's a nice trooper weapon! They still can't aim. Poor Han, you knew he would do that, sigh. Totally predictable.

Finally an actual fight with sabers. Ren's looks like crap and can tell he didn't do a great job constructing it. It's not tuned right. Luke's turns on. Well, Now that is a well constructed saber! You can see the power. Waiting to see Ren's saber fail or explode in battle..... Sigh didn't happen. Still a junk saber in my opinion.

Ok they get away, explosion of star killer. Expecting either a super nova or a black hole (it had a sun in it!) nope a perfect unharmed star appears! WHAT!!!!???? You gotta be kidding me! I'm done, I had enough, let's get through this.

Ok R2 comes alive, final puzzle, really? They couldn't just go to the end a long time ago? Only piece missing was the middle! Wow ok, get on your ship and go fallow that line.

Finally see Luke, she runs up, holds saber out, he looks at the saber, pans to saber, looks at saber, pans on saber, what? What? Don't leave me hangin, not like this, don't you end like this, omg you did! They could have totally had Luke force take it and turn it on and smile. Dang you Abrams, you had so much wealth of info, had Lucas writings for all new movies, and this is the best you did? Where's the deep story? Where's the epic feel of Star Wars? The new generations didn't need a recap of 4, they have 4 to watch, it was supposed to be a continuation! I really felt like Obi-Wan did when Anakin turned. You where supposed to bring balance, not leave it in darkness!!! Which reminds me, the rebel alliance is still going on? After the overthrow people are still wanting with control???? What the heck!? Ok ok, I'm calm. I give it 5/10 for sheer disregard that it was supposed to be a continuation and the over sites of many things, especially Ren trying to talk to Vader and wanting his guidance. Really? Luke never told him he changed to the light before death? He finished what he started a long time ago, be your own dang person!

Ok I'm done. Don't take my views personal. Im just emotional about what I saw. Just my opinions. Everyone has them.

Offline Greenie

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #76 on: January 02, 2016, 12:55:27 PM »
You can't tell 30+ years of back story in a 2 hour movie that has its own story to tell. Disney are rebuilding the Star Wars universe across all possible medias, answers will come in one form or another.
C'mon people, are you forgetting the steaming pile of prequels GL left on your doorstep. So many rehashed lines and moments,wooden acting, awful dialogue, cameos by everyone from LFL not to mention the ubiquitous Sam Jackson, jedi councils, dancing frogs, clone armies and continuity errors from the start to the bitter, bitter end. Lucas may as well have appeared on screen winking and pointing! :huh: ('every stanza rhymes with the last') but this time i used spectacle instead of story and it bears little resemblance to Star Wars.  :mad: No matter how disappointed you are with TFA it can never compare to the disappointment of the prequels, felt by genuine Star Wars fans (original class of '77) :cry:
« Last Edit: January 02, 2016, 12:57:01 PM by QUI-GON JINN »

Offline djobitwan7

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #77 on: January 02, 2016, 07:49:32 PM »
I'll throw in my 2 cents as well here. To me, it was basically a New Hope kind of reboot. I mean, none of these groups learned from earlier mistakes: 2 Death stars, desert planets, still German like regimes. I don't think JJ had much in the way of originality. I'm not blaming him, but I don't know if he just directed what was already written in the screenplay or if he pitched in his 2 cents as well. Onto my next thoughts.

I didn't have much of a problem with the ending lightsaber duel(s). Kylo-Ren was seriously injured from Chewie's bow. Staggering damage there and he shook it off and continued to fight regardless. That takes some serious strength and balls. Plus, even though Ray was not trained, she was holding her own since she was young. That goes for Finn as well. The new Stormtroopers were actually fighting and shooting a lot better than their earlier counter-parts. Special training since early abduction. Ray and Finn barely beat Kylo-Ren and lord help them when he's at full strength.

My problem with Kylo-Ren was how he was. He was a whiny little child, (much as Anakin was) trying to emulate his grandfather??? Did Han or Leia or maybe Uncle Luke tell him his grandfather was an evil Sith Lord? They kept saying there was too much Vader in him. I find this hilarious to believe. No self-respecting parent would tell a young son how evil a person was. How he was turned we have to find out and that's what I look forward to. As for his force abilities......well, lets just say he seemed pretty weak. He knew enough to be dangerous, but not enough to have focus, like a Jedi should/would have. I mean come on. Before his injury he lost to Ray mentally, before she knew she had any force abilities. Even Luke Skywalker needed some training in order to tackle Vader. There are no shortcuts that can convince me other-wise.

As for the other characters: BB-8, Finn, Ray, and even our new hotshot ace pilot Poe Dameron were good choices. I hope they show Wedge Antilles, for he would have been the Ace pilot of the rebellion (besides Luke of course). Leia should have had some Jedi training as well, but I guess that ship has sailed. I was entertained regardless and if they clean the next episode up, it may be better than this one, but oh how the money will be sweet for Disney. I miss Lucas cut scenes when going to the next line of thought in the movies. That was part of what made Star Wars feel like Star Wars.

Parallels that I noticed though: along with thoughts.
1. Death Star like planet -  3rd installment and bad guys did not learn their lesson at all from the bad old Empire. Plus, no scientist thought that draining the star should ever be considered a great idea for a weapon. What happens when you drain a star? Doesn't it implode or something drastic that would basically kill the entire system that star supports. We can't say Sun, since only our system actually named it the Sun, LOL.

2. Kylo-Ren and General Hux (Vader and Grand Moff Tarking) rivalry - It looked to me that the new characters really disliked one another, whilst Vader and Tarkin at least respected one another.

3. Children left on desert planets - Nuff said about this one.

4. The First order still looks like Germans - They just took over the Empire it seems.

5. Luke disappears like Obi-Wan and Yoda. We don't really know Luke's reason yet.

6. Supreme Leader Snoke is just another Emperor Palpatine -  I hope he's Darth Plageuis, but that's too much to hope for. There were other Siths out there and they were not part of the Rule of Two.

7. This isn't a parallel, but I'd like to know how on Earth did Luke's (Anakin's) lightsaber change. Heck, I'd like to know how it changed from A new hope to Empire Strikes Back. The original had just the grips, while Empire had rivets on the bottom. Not a big deal, but I thought only a Jedi could change a lightsaber and the keeper does not have force powers (as we know thus far).

Sorry for the long speech, but thought I would say these and be done with it once and for all.

« Last Edit: January 02, 2016, 07:55:32 PM by djobitwan7 »

Offline Dark Navel

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #78 on: January 02, 2016, 09:02:11 PM »
Agree with 1, 2 ,& 6.  We will see how the rest plays out.

Offline DARTH VADER

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #79 on: January 02, 2016, 09:58:37 PM »
Actually, I think that some of you have missed the point of Ren...

We have never seen a pro to darksider before. Snoke is leading him down th garden path, so to speak...  He is purposefully pushing him into postions of leadership that he is not ready to handle...  And Ren freaks when he fails, every time...   You are right, he is a whiny teenager. But that is what he is supposed to be. This is the Anakin that we should have seen, in between TCW and RoTS... Agonizing over the decision to turn, but having worm tongue whispering in your ear that you are destined for greatness, failing every time, but having someone telling you that you can do better. It's a classic scenario of how to corupot someone into an abusive relationship.

Personally, I think that snoke might not even be a force sensitive...  He just read the codex and is prompting Ren along...
I loved the fact that the half trained Ren only made an untuned saber., and I suspect that we are either going to see a better saber next time, or his saber will fail in a fight.

Offline TrypWyr

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #80 on: January 02, 2016, 11:02:33 PM »
Personally, I think that snoke might not even be a force sensitive...  He just read the codex and is prompting Ren along...
I loved the fact that the half trained Ren only made an untuned saber., and I suspect that we are either going to see a better saber next time, or his saber will fail in a fight.

I love these ideas.

Offline Lazi-D

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #81 on: January 03, 2016, 02:39:28 AM »
Just finished watching VII again.  Had a few thoughts on Rey, wanted to share.  I haven't read all the posts prior, so someone might have mentioned this already.
Just feels like Rey is Kylo's sister watching it this time around...

1.  Star Wars is always about fighting the one you love
2.  A final duel between cousins doesn't seem to fill the emotional drama bit
3.  Since there are so many parallels between first trilogy and this, I kept thinking of Vader saying "sister...", need that hidden blood relation

Of course not perfect, since Leia seems more or less clueless when seeing her...

Sigh, need episode VIII...

Offline Obi_1

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #82 on: January 03, 2016, 10:04:50 AM »
You can't tell 30+ years of back story in a 2 hour movie that has its own story to tell. Disney are rebuilding the Star Wars universe across all possible medias, answers will come in one form or another.
C'mon people, are you forgetting the steaming pile of prequels GL left on your doorstep. So many rehashed lines and moments,wooden acting, awful dialogue, cameos by everyone from LFL not to mention the ubiquitous Sam Jackson, jedi councils, dancing frogs, clone armies and continuity errors from the start to the bitter, bitter end. Lucas may as well have appeared on screen winking and pointing! :huh: ('every stanza rhymes with the last') but this time i used spectacle instead of story and it bears little resemblance to Star Wars.  :mad: No matter how disappointed you are with TFA it can never compare to the disappointment of the prequels, felt by genuine Star Wars fans (original class of '77) :cry:

I consider myself original class (ok, '76), and please don't hang me, I liked the prequels. All right, EP1 was my biggest movie disappointment, but EP2 and EP3 I quite liked and I loved the Clone Wars animated series (even better than the prequels must say). While the prequels were not the biggest hits, face it: we are all on this forum exactly because of them! What I mean: lightsabers were the essence of the prequels as opposed to the OT where blasters took the same role. As a kid I wanted to be Han Solo and not Luke Skywalker and most of my friends at school felt the same way. It was the prequels and the Clone Wars which brought most of us to this hobby (and of course the technological advance  :grin:). While I do not want to rant endlessly about it, the prequels gave us many 1st class scenes; best starfighter battle since ROTJ was Obi-Wan vs. Jango Fett, and their combat on Camino is also one of the best fights in all 6 (7) episodes.

As to TFA, I see most of it like you guys, still I liked the film. Only thing is: I would have completely left out that monster of a death star. It was totally out of place.

Offline TrypWyr

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #83 on: January 03, 2016, 03:42:15 PM »
http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-force-awakens-questions/2/

Interesting article, nothing that hasn't been discussed here already with one exception (I think): What if Rey isn't actually a Skywalker but a Kenobi? Here an interesting tidbit:

Quote
There is one more possibility: She could be Obi-wan Kenobi’s granddaughter. I had heard early on that the change from Michael Arndt’s script to the one J.J. Abrams was working on with Lawrence Kasdan was that it changed the story from being just about the Skywalkers to being a story about the Kenobis vs. the Skywalkers. Again, that was just a rumor and a lot of what we heard early on was wrong or evolved into something else. But it is possible.

Offline anakin2000

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #84 on: January 03, 2016, 04:25:10 PM »
You can't tell 30+ years of back story in a 2 hour movie that has its own story to tell. Disney are rebuilding the Star Wars universe across all possible medias, answers will come in one form or another.
C'mon people, are you forgetting the steaming pile of prequels GL left on your doorstep. So many rehashed lines and moments,wooden acting, awful dialogue, cameos by everyone from LFL not to mention the ubiquitous Sam Jackson, jedi councils, dancing frogs, clone armies and continuity errors from the start to the bitter, bitter end. Lucas may as well have appeared on screen winking and pointing! :huh: ('every stanza rhymes with the last') but this time i used spectacle instead of story and it bears little resemblance to Star Wars.  :mad: No matter how disappointed you are with TFA it can never compare to the disappointment of the prequels, felt by genuine Star Wars fans (original class of '77) :cry:

I consider myself original class (ok, '76), and please don't hang me, I liked the prequels. All right, EP1 was my biggest movie disappointment, but EP2 and EP3 I quite liked and I loved the Clone Wars animated series (even better than the prequels must say). While the prequels were not the biggest hits, face it: we are all on this forum exactly because of them! What I mean: lightsabers were the essence of the prequels as opposed to the OT where blasters took the same role. As a kid I wanted to be Han Solo and not Luke Skywalker and most of my friends at school felt the same way. It was the prequels and the Clone Wars which brought most of us to this hobby (and of course the technological advance  :grin:). While I do not want to rant endlessly about it, the prequels gave us many 1st class scenes; best starfighter battle since ROTJ was Obi-Wan vs. Jango Fett, and their combat on Camino is also one of the best fights in all 6 (7) episodes.

As to TFA, I see most of it like you guys, still I liked the film. Only thing is: I would have completely left out that monster of a death star. It was totally out of place.

Agreed Episode 1 is really weak but i thought 2 was OK and 3 was awesome. Certainly not up to par with with OT but still quality films. 
Don't wanna merge topics, back to TFA.......

Offline anakin2000

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #85 on: January 03, 2016, 04:29:09 PM »
Another thing I will say- i freakin loved this movie. Seen it 5 times already and I would give it a 9.5 out of 10. But I will agree with some others, for some reason when I was sitting in the theater opening night i wasn't thinkin< "holy xxx this is a new star wars im watching a new star wars movie" I mean it was amazing but for some reason the first time it didn't really feel like a star wars movie, I think both OT and the prequels established some what of an outline for what movies should be like. I just didn't get the feel the first time. of course i did the other four times though

almost overtakes ROTS as my favorite!

Offline darth hondo

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #86 on: January 03, 2016, 05:25:34 PM »
Actually, I think that some of you have missed the point of Ren...

We have never seen a pro to darksider before. Snoke is leading him down th garden path, so to speak...  He is purposefully pushing him into postions of leadership that he is not ready to handle...  And Ren freaks when he fails, every time...   You are right, he is a whiny teenager. But that is what he is supposed to be. This is the Anakin that we should have seen, in between TCW and RoTS... Agonizing over the decision to turn, but having worm tongue whispering in your ear that you are destined for greatness, failing every time, but having someone telling you that you can do better. It's a classic scenario of how to corupot someone into an abusive relationship.


These are very good and relevant points

Offline WEDGE ANTILLES

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #87 on: January 03, 2016, 05:58:50 PM »
the first time I watch a movie (any movie) I am always concerned with the story beats.  once I already know what's gonna happen, then I can go back and watch again for things like cinematography and 'cool factor'. 

to be honest, I wasn't all that impressed with TFA on my first viewing.  for example: Han's death seemed cold and forced -- I know WHY it was done (character development on the part of Kylo, to MAKE him a "true villain" by doing something that the audience would NEVER forgive him for) but it seemed wrong to sacrifice a beloved character simply to 'make' a villain out of thin air. 

I could go on.  suffice to say, the story didn't impress much.

if you've ever seen JJ's "LOST" then you know what its like to 'tune in' every week, expecting "answers" -- only to end with more questions.  that's what it felt like: not so much a 'movie' unto itself.. but more like the "pilot" to a new movie "serial".  like JJ's "LOST" -- with MANY loose threads (for their OWN sake), left hanging for OTHER authors to flesh out later.   this is Disney trying to 'spin a yarn' that would go on forever.

I had expected "answers", after 30 years : re: "what have my heroes been doing all these years" -- instead I felt like JJ was raising "questions" for their OWN sake.

which is fine.  LOST was very popular.  I enjoyed it, as much as anyone.   I just didn't really expect this, from a Star Wars movie.  GL's movies feel more complete, unto themselves.


 


having said that,  the second viewing was FAR more enjoyable.  now I was able to pay attention to how the trench run was shot (for example).  I appreciated the composition of the film, and the use of comedy to break up the action (for example).   you pay attention to different aspects of the film, when you ALREADY know the story. 

(( consider the opening shot(s) --- in 1977,  the rebel blockade runner appears mid-screen and zooms away, to become a small dot on the screen -- it gets 'smaller' in the frame, until it's almost invisible;  the imperial star destroyer STARTS as a small dot on the screen (at the top of the frame) and then spreads across the entire screen like a plague -- in ONE SHOT were are told: the rebel alliance is small (and getting smaller); the Empire is large, and spreading across the galaxy, until it fills the entire [screen].  we are shown "who" the underdog is; "who" the oppressor is; and we feel the unstoppable presence of the Empire as it spreads across the frame with no end in sight ---  ALL THIS FROM ONE SHOT!! --- it's visual poetry))

((in 2015, the first order star destroyer spreads out in similar fashion, but it is shown ONLY in silhouette -- it spreads like a SHADOW, conveying a sense of "the dark side", as it fills the entire frame -- this is a movie about "the force", afterall -- the Dark Side is spreading across the galaxy))

^^ this is the kind of stuff I appreciate in TFA.

 

in the end, I'm still on the fence about the story.   I wasn't all that impressed with Kasdan's effort.  just as GL has a "1950's" sensibility about storytelling -- you can REALLY tell, Kasdan hasn't had a 'hit' since the Big Chill -- he's got a VERY "1980's" sensibility about movie-making.  and this feels kind of stale.

the world has changed.  Marvel has raised the bar.   I don't think they should treat this like a typical 1980's "trilogy" where they just make it up as they go along. (robocop?  aliens? terminator? I'm talking to YOU).

((Kasdan was asked "have you mapped out the next chapters?" and he said "no, not really" -- he has no idea how this trilogy will end)) :( ((I find that worrisome)).

((but the movie was a lot of fun to watch and the visuals (Xwings) were really well done.   so I dunno.   I guess it depends what you're watching for)).





if you're looking for "flash-boom-POW!" this movie delivers, in spades.    if you're looking for a movie that stands on its own legs (story wise), you'd be better off waiting until the trilogy is done and then "Binge Watch" it, like JJ's "LOST"  -- this will be FAR less frustrating, in the long run :P

3.5/5

-==-

1.ESB
2.ANH
3.TPM
4.ROTS
5.TFA
6.AOTC
7.ROTJ

--> it was BETTER than AOTC.
--> it was the BEST SW movie,  since 2005.

(trying to be nice here) :P hehe
"The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story.
Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned, and Luke doesn't get married..."
- George Lucas

Offline anakin2000

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #88 on: January 03, 2016, 08:48:32 PM »

1.ESB
2.ANH
3.TPM
4.ROTS
5.TFA
6.AOTC
7.ROTJ

You put return of the jedi last?! :huh:

Offline Obi_1

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #89 on: January 04, 2016, 01:04:44 AM »
I wholeheartedly agree to WEDGE, TFA was the best sci-fi since 2005. And this is true even considering that sci-fi as a genre has been crossly neglected in the past decades apart from SW. I guess because no one though it worth the effort to compete...

Although I only saw the film so far once, I'm already looking forward to seeing it again (and again...).

One thought on Luke's disappearance: suppose you get children of your sister to watch over them. Then something happens to them. You're never going to forgive yourself and never want to face them again. Natural human response. This is the central drama in TFA and the one which did not only disrupt the Solo/Skywalker family but ultimately plunged the Galaxy into chaos, enabling First Order to grow and expand its influence.

Still it's unclear why Rey was left on Jakkuu, but maybe there is no connection here.

 

retrousse