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Author Topic: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!  (Read 24690 times)

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Offline BEN KENOBI

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #60 on: December 22, 2015, 03:28:07 PM »


   Saw it again last night and I'm seeing it again next week. :grin:

Offline ShadyCanuck

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #61 on: December 22, 2015, 05:08:22 PM »
Fascinating theory. But Finn would turn to the dark side, he wouldn't 'awaken' it. Also, if we believe packaging on toys, finn is lando calrissians son. He's not force sensitive. Plus, "the dark side, and the light" line wasn't in the movie. I doubt either of them will become siths. It will be Kylo and Master Snoke, and thats probably it
That assumes that everyone who is force sensitive defaults to the light side; wouldn't an individual be predisposed to have either light side or dark side tendencies based on life experience and personality traits?  You are only "turned" if you are swayed from your natural force tendency.  And the Lando parentage thing is likely bunk from an unreliable vendor/source.

Plus why would you say that Finn is definitely not force sensitive?  Didn't Kylo Ren "sense" him during the opening scene?  And that was some pretty gifted shooting & sabering for a muggle (sorry - I'm mixing my Fantasy metaphors).
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Offline TrypWyr

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #62 on: December 22, 2015, 07:19:32 PM »
It will be Kylo and Master Snoke, and thats probably it

Quote from: Yoda
Always two, there are; no more, no less. A master and an apprentice.

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Offline anakin2000

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #63 on: December 23, 2015, 09:14:31 AM »
Fascinating theory. But Finn would turn to the dark side, he wouldn't 'awaken' it. Also, if we believe packaging on toys, finn is lando calrissians son. He's not force sensitive. Plus, "the dark side, and the light" line wasn't in the movie. I doubt either of them will become siths. It will be Kylo and Master Snoke, and thats probably it
That assumes that everyone who is force sensitive defaults to the light side; wouldn't an individual be predisposed to have either light side or dark side tendencies based on life experience and personality traits?  You are only "turned" if you are swayed from your natural force tendency.  And the Lando parentage thing is likely bunk from an unreliable vendor/source.

Plus why would you say that Finn is definitely not force sensitive?  Didn't Kylo Ren "sense" him during the opening scene?  And that was some pretty gifted shooting & sabering for a muggle (sorry - I'm mixing my Fantasy metaphors).

Force sensitive people have the ability to sense non sensitive people's feelings, emotions, etc. Consider Anakin in the prequels with both his mom and padme, and they were both regular people.
Regarding his mastery of the weaponry- he has been trained as a stormtrooper all his life, he knows how to use a gun even if he swears not to kill for them. Regarding the lightsaber combat, he was actually pretty raw with it in both the scene on that grassy planet (Ilenea or something?) and the fight against kylo. Plus did you recognize that stormtroopers had those laser shock weapons that were very comperable to a lightsaber in the fighting style? He was also trained to use one of those. Not to mention he LOST to the stormtrooper and had to have Solo bail him out

Offline merCUrium

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #64 on: December 23, 2015, 01:44:41 PM »
Saw it twice by now and I loved it from the first second.

On the movie/production side:
I saw both 3d and 2d and I like both. Very nice use of 3d, though in fast scenes it seems to get a bit more blurry which throws me out of illusion, 2d is more consistent in this regard.
PRACTICAL FX xxx yeah!! They blew loads of charges and had a bunch of nicely designed/played/puppeteered (hows that spelled correctly?) aliens/droids and most important used fully illuminated light saber props!
Great actors.

On the story:
I totally  like the story and disagree with the most wide spread complaints. I think JJ and Kasdan are very well aware of what might be seen as week point, but wanted the things to be exactly as they are on purpose. Especially the often hated demasking of Kylo Ren is a great preparation for a great story arc over this trilogy, with many ups and downs and twists to come. Story telling developed a lot since the OT and Disney has proven masterful at this skill (eg. see the Dare Devil or Jessica Jones series on Netflix or the latest Marvel Movies and Pixar in general). TFA is all about emotions and its overall core emotion I think is (though this no real emotion  :undecided:) "can it please be simply black and white - no you can not have it that easy".
Though I have some minor logic flaws (besides the major physics issues which I ignore since its Star Wars):
- why can't a Resistance war room navigation computer recognize a whole star map sector, when ist uploaded?
- what awakens R2 from its hibernation in the end?

And to contradict some further criticism:
- I think Hux overactingly speech is not overacting by Gleeson but by Hux, he is not the real battle proven bad xxx Empire General, but a upstart in a permanent struggle against Ren for the favor of Snoke. And the severe parallels to the Reichsparteitag Speech is clearly a symbol of the danger of another regime rising.
- Han's death: it's really sad to lose him right when we thought he is back. But it made sense in the big picture. The only complaint I had after the first viewing was that there was very little time to mourn the loss of this big hero. But the second time seeing it in 2d there seems to be more time..

Bevor I come to the great Rey theories, lets have a little look on Poe:
What a great piloting performance, that was what I expected to see from "the best fighter pilot in the whole universe". In the Battle of Takodana this is simply jaw dropping, how every shot is a hit and he precisely shoots Troopes right beneath Han, Chewy, Finn. And if you read the "Shattered Empire" Comic there might be some chance that his abilities are part inherited part "gifted". But I don't want to spoil any further if you want to read this great 4 issue mini comic series.

Now to Rey:
I like to read all those theories and had my own started thinking of right during the credits.
Han and Leia are pretty sure not her parents, there would have been more hints on it. Especially Leia would have had to recognize her, if not on sight then at least through the force. And if she would be Bens sister the interrogation should end in a completely different way. The Twin theory is out by the age of the two, I would guess the are at least five years apart.
Total off of the Skywalker lineage would be story telling wise more interesting, but I do think there are loads of clues leading to Luke being her father. Some have been mentioned yet, what I would like to add is: first the similarities of Rey to the young Padme and Leia. Then costume/prop clues, her Jakku outfit resembles a mix of the Tatooine Luke and Republic Jedi. Next the vision when she touches the Saber in Maz Kanata's castle: first it cuts to Bespin right before the "I am your father" scene and next to Luke mourning, probably the destruction of his academy, betrayal by Ben and death of his students. And next cut is to Rey, when abandoned on Jakku. The Graflex is definitely a heritage of the Skywalker family.
The thing I ask me is, why she does not remember Luke being her father and why/how she got to Jakku. The Kylo trying to kill her but couldn't theory is plausible to the point when they meet in reality, this would work out differently I think. His reaction to "the girl from Jakku" is definitely suspicious though.
Lets bring up a totally new possibility: maybe Luke even didn't know he has a daughter. Maz says (paraphrased) "they would have never returned. but there is one that could" to which Rey answers "Luke Skywalker". Maybe her mother was killed by Kylo Ren, or she (or someone else caring for her) brought her to Jakku in despair of another option. This would leave plenty of story options but delivering the almost necessity of Rey being Skywalker offspring.
Further clues to the Skywalker "genes": she is a tinkering savant and flying prodigy flying the Falcon unseen and without a copilot (can't remember this ever been done in OT, right?) and instantly repairs the buggy mods to it.

And finally a word on the sword fight:
Kylo has proven tremendous abilities with the force, but his lack of sword wielding is pretty natural. Even Luke never had any true sword lessons, so we can not expect PT like fights, at least till EP IX when probably Rey and Kylo are finally trained and the last Star Wars Trilogy fight touches the screen. His scenes when he tries to rage in fury, but only demolishes the furniture, show he probably never had face any real opponent. And he is wounded by Chewies Bow Caster which is clearly a hack of a mighty blaster.
Then Rey seems a true natural with the force and with adaptation at all, and she learns all the things of the tales about Jedi's abilities would work for real (scene with force trick on trooper). In the end the fight is a tie through higher force (which is a great directing solution in my opinion), so Rey didn't defeat him at all, she just stood against him pretty well for a few minutes.

So far I look forward to discuss along..

MTFBWY

Offline KingOfDathomir

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #65 on: December 23, 2015, 09:44:13 PM »
If Star Wars is about the Skywalker legacy, then Rey must be Luke's daughter. I know, I know, and believe me when I say I've been up and down about this. But with Kylo as the only Skywalker moving forward, the legacy dies drowned in the dark side. There must be a Skywalker hero to save the galaxy. As far as Kylo during his duel goes, I think he was using his pain to boost his strength through the dark side, hence his persistant smacking of his wounds.

This film was very enjoyable, as a movie and a Star Wars title. 8.5/10 fo sho.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 09:46:06 PM by KingOfDathomir »

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Offline anakin2000

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #66 on: December 24, 2015, 07:57:21 AM »
In the end the fight is a tie through higher force (which is a great directing solution in my opinion), so Rey didn't defeat him at all, she just stood against him pretty well for a few minutes.

So far I look forward to discuss along..

MTFBWY

I mean she stabbed him in the chest, cut his face, and leg? I think she won haha

Offline Darth Chasm

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #67 on: December 24, 2015, 08:01:09 AM »
Saw it for a second time last night and tried to take note of a few things. I am still on the fence with Rey's parentage, but I did notice when Maz is talking to Rey after Rey's vision she says something along the lines of--You know your FAMILY is not coming back, but SOMEONE still may. This had me thinking. She specifically says your FAMILY is not coming back. The SOMEONE she is referring to is obviously Luke. This makes it seem Luke may in fact not be family. Still not sure though.

The pilot helmet she put on has Aurebesh on it that translates to Ræh (Ray, Rey). Looked it up and wookieepedia says it belonged to a rebellion pilot named Dosmit Ræh. So I don't think there's any significance other than a cool coincidence.

I was under the impression that Rey's quick ascent in the force was due to prior training she may not remember for one reason or another. But, Kylo specifically says to Snoke she's untrained but very strong in the force. If he knows who she is, which some parts make it seem he does, why would he think she's untrained? Still very unclear on her background as far as the force goes.

Snoke's first seen has music eerily similar to the music playing in ROTS when Palps is telling the Plageius story to Anakin. Hmmmm...

Anyway, I highly enjoyed the film. Even more so the second time around. I honestly rank it third behind ESB and ANH. The fact that it has me talking, thinking, and wanting more is a very good thing. Sure it has flaws, but objectively speaking, and what a lot of fans tend to ignore, the OT had a butt load as well. We tend to turn a cheek to those because we love the films so much. I am willing to do the same here.

Offline KI-ADI-MUNDI

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #68 on: December 24, 2015, 08:48:46 AM »
I heard Disney Infinity gave up Ray's identity... Game over...
 
   
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Offline Bruce Wayne

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #69 on: December 24, 2015, 08:58:18 AM »
I heard Disney Infinity gave up Ray's identity... Game over...

If you're talking about when Kylo Ren fights Rey in the game and he says "Face me" and then what sounds like "cousin," it's actually confirmed that he says "curses," not "cousin."  When Kylo gets hit in the game, he says "curses," so he was saying "face me," got hit, and said "curses."  One of the guys that "broke" that story confirmed it yesterday. 

So we still don't know for sure who she really is.  :grin:

Offline EXAR KUN

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #70 on: December 24, 2015, 09:38:28 AM »


   Saw it again last night and I'm seeing it again next week. :grin:

I will watch for the fourth time on Saturday! Can't wait. Really love this movie. Not because it is an absolutely tremendous movie, but because it is Star Wars.

I think what is starting to happen with me is... I'm appreciating the prequels more now that these new movies are coming out. Just can't get enough sabers... methinks hmmm....lolololo (yoda laugh)



Offline Obi_1

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #71 on: December 30, 2015, 10:57:51 AM »
Before I write a full recension of my SW VII. experience, just one question which occured to me: I find it kind of strange that so far it occured to no one on this lightsaber forum how come the Graxflex appeared again. As far as I can recall, this relic was lost together with Luke's left (right?) hand just moments before Vader told him he was his father. For all we know it disappeared in the furnace of a gas planet, probably destroyed by the pressure in such an environment. It's just not straightforward...
(not to mention that it appearently got some coaching from certain magic wands from the Harry Potter story line and now seems to apply a similar strategy to find a new master... and from the looks of it it had been in the posession of a certain Cpt. Sparrow on the its many adventures who brought it to the pirate's den Solo brought Rey, in a Fitting wooden pirate treausure chest, totally unfitting the SW universe)
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 11:06:35 AM by Obi_1 »

Offline Darth Chasm

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #72 on: December 30, 2015, 11:32:11 AM »
The hero prop display stated that it was scavenged from the depths of Bespin. In the movie Maz says how she got it "is a story for another time." A lot of the new EU material has moments that speak of scavenging, relic hunting and so on.

I'm sure in one medium or another we will get more of the story.

Offline WEDGE ANTILLES

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #73 on: December 30, 2015, 11:48:22 AM »
the wooden pirate chest is a parallel to the wooden pirate chest that Obi-wan had in his hut on tattooine.  when he first gives the saber to Luke in ANH, he pulls it from a suspisciously similar wooden chest.


(trivia:   the exact wooden chest from ANH was re-used in Superman:The Movie (1978), when Lex Luthor pulls the kryptonite from Obi-wan's box).
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Offline Obi_1

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Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
« Reply #74 on: December 30, 2015, 02:41:36 PM »
@WEDGE, Darth Chasm: thanks for the cackground info!

Now my assessment of SW7: I give the film 8/10. I liked it, it is a solid sci-fi and more than worth to see it. While it did not known me down from the chair like ANH (with serious side effects like addiction to SW for more than 30 years now), it's by far the best of its genre I've seen in the last couple of years.

What I liked a lot:
- the technique! Finally they brought back the good old method of working with models and real actors instead of trying to solve everything with special effects. It's so much more enjoyable I simply cannot describe. I must admit I'm one of those funny creatures who dare like EP2 and EP3, but I still have a dislike for their overuse of computer animation. In SW7 they broke with this bad Habit of contemporary film making and lol! and behold, I can manage to look at the movie screen and actually see what is happening (instead of seeing only a blur).
- at last a real lightsaber combat. Actually after seeing the movie I told my brother that neither Kylo Ren, nor Rey or Finn were proficient in lightsaber combat, they looked pretty amateur compared to the Jedi/Sith in the prequels. But then - because he is a member of Europe's largest medieval swordfighting association - he told me that what Ben, Rey and Finn did was real swordfight and not just acrobatics with lightsabers the likes we saw in the Prequels. Thinking about it I had to concede to his point and it got me replay the whole scene in my mind again: I realised that finally we had the best ligthsaber figths since Luke defeated Darth Vader. With powerful swings and hard clahes (the prequels had mostly quick parries). For me the crowning point was Rey, because she applied stabs as well, something so far we had seen only from Palpatine. That means she already starts to develop an unique combat style. I already love this character!
- staying with Rey: she is the most exciting character for me in the whole story. Remember the scenes Kylo Ren interrogates her? Do you remember any scene in any of the other films a (aspiring) Jedi actually intimidates a Sith? She did it (two times), her eyes and expression radiated being firmly rooted in the Ligth Side of the Force. She did the same to Ren during their lightsaber fight when their saber locked up: again a presence so stable and firm that she blasted away Ren psyhically even before physically injuring him. A draw? NO! Clealy she is becoming a more powerful force wielder than Kylo Ren ever could.
- I liked Kylo Ren, with all his torments between Light and Darkness. But I personally think that latest the end of SW8 will see him on the Light Side. He is clearly not a Sith no matter how hard he tries. He is lured by power but his attempts at being evil are all forced instead of coming from a fuse with the Dark Side. Darth Vader was a Sith, his grandson plays to be one. And yes, he is less intimidating without the helmet, but xxx, we all knew that there is a young man underneath.
- enjoyable starfighter battle, not seen since ROTJ (and I mean not seen in ANY of the movies produces ever since).
- finally the stormtroppers got redeemed. In the OT it was SAID that they are the elite troops of the Empire, but they were ACTED like Clowns wielding weapons. They certainly were more menancing in the current movie. While they could still be defeated too easily for my taste, they got back a bit of dignity. Also the new armour is not that bad. Bad is that I got an ANH stormtropper armour for Xmas, I hope it will not be outdated by the time I shape it up for 501st acceptance...
- I liked Finn. I also liked how Disney kept us in darkness so long about who is going to be in whom the Force awakens. Based on the trailers I expected Finn. Nevertheless he exceled in his role. A bit sad that he appearently did not queue up when good attributes were distributed, I mean he is an average stormtrooper while Rey is the force sensitive, the superb pilot and the pretty girl. Unbalanced.


What I did not like (or understand):
- the story was a clone of ANH. Was not necessary at all. The opening scene set the stage for a new tale and it is a pity that they left that course and rowed back to safe Waters copying a well established Story. The new Death Planet was with all its might not a fraction as frightening as the Death Star. Why? Because on the Death Star we had a Grand Moff Tarkin and a Darth Vader, equal partners in the service of the Emperor, both of them several magnitudes more cunning, coldly calculating and utterly concvinced of their Agenda than the two Junior Managers Hux and Kylo. Moreover the Death Star destroyed a planet we knew to whom it belonged to, the emotional link was established even before the act. The horrors of the destruction on such scale dawned on us in ANH, but in SW8 the new Death Whatever blew up a star system not even worth to mention. So what? But what I certainly liked was Snoke's respsonse to Hux's distress over loosing the shield of the super weapon. Obviously for him this "technological nightmare" was less important than capturing a powerful force user like Rey. That speaks on his behalf (although I hate that this embarassing figure is the main evil...I sincerely hope it will change).
- for me as a German the hints to the Third Reich were just too obvious. In the OT it was also clear to everyone where the inspiration for the Empire (and most notably the imperial uniforms) came from, so that total lack of subtlety socked me. Heck, the stormtroopers even raised their hand in salute in a most suspicious way...
- the SW universe shrinked. I know that a lot of fans did not like the increase in how the Galaxy was presented in the Prequel movies, but one might get the wrong notion that that Galaxy far, far away was stripped down to 3 or 4 planets, with a handful of inhabitants and interstellar space in between. Not to mention that those living in this partucular Galaxy either ride spaceships (mostly badly mainained though) or live in Stone Age villages.  Mud huts and pirate dens with wooden chests, come on JJ!
- I like other movies creating parallels to SW. I do not like it the other way around. Snoke is really like a cross-breed of Gollum and Lord Voldemort (I swear I red the thread only after having come to the same conclusion). The idea of a sun draining super weapon I expect from a Star Trek movie more than from SW. The planets resemble either a Mad Max-like post-apocalypse word or a pirate den from the Pirates of the Caribbean.


Han Solo's Death: I was 6 years old when I saw ANH. I'm 40 now, and if someone asks me who is my favorite movie character and actor, my answer is: Han Solo and Harrison Ford (latter convinced me in many other movies, but the reason is still Solo). Still I could not shed any tears over the loss. He did the rigth thing. I have two sons and I would have done the same in his stead. It pains him no end that his son turned to the Dark Side and understandably he could not believe his son is so wicked (I'm convinced in fact that he is not). He as a father loves Ben far more than he ever loved anyone or anything else (yes, including Leia, the Falcon or Chewie) and this love is unconditional. He is in ruins and can not come to Terms with the loss of his son to the Dark Side, let's face it, he became a mediocre smuggler, not even a shadow of his former self. A portion of his thoughts are always with his son and his only redemption is if he can redeem his son. He tries. He dies trying.
Only bad Thing is that the actor of Kylo Ren somehow ruined that scene. Well, SW was never known for good actors (with the only exception of Alec Guiness and Harrison Ford). From his performance it was not clear to me if he mocks his father or really sways between his love for his father and the self-sowrn commitment to his master. This is the reason the death of my favorite movie hero was spoiled for me.

Luke and Rey: I also think that Rey is Luke's daugther. I also think that the same old man who has been slayed by Kylo Ren for not giving him the map to Luke was Rey's appointed protector like Obi-Wan looked over Luke back on Tatooine.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 02:49:38 PM by Obi_1 »

 

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