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Star Wars Movies, Videos, TV, Books => Sequel Trilogy => Topic started by: anakin2000 on December 17, 2015, 08:29:52 PM

Title: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: anakin2000 on December 17, 2015, 08:29:52 PM
What did all of you guys think??? I give it a 9/10
Rey and Finn were fantastic, and that last lightsaber battle with Kylo and Rey was awesome...
Another good element was the humor!!! It was great
Glad to see C3PO and R2 back...

But of course the negatives
Han Solos death, of course. Horribly done in my opinion. Really disliked it
And then only 2 seconds of Luke at the end??? Come on, JJ.

Oh well. Only 17 months til Episode 8  :cry:
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Derro Kuspin on December 17, 2015, 09:45:35 PM
Watched it yesterday. I have to say that I'm rather disappointed. I would rate it a 8/10 as a scifi/action flick, but only a 5/10 as a "genuine" Star Wars movie. It had awesome special effects and great fights and I loved to "meet" the old crew, especially Han, Chewie, C3P0 and R2D2 (Luke's appearance was really a little short, agreed, but I'm sure this will change in the next two episodes). It was overall very entertaining.
But it had many major letdowns, that rather made me an "unhappy camper", when I left the theater... I won't list them all here, since it's only my opinion and I certainly don't want to spoil the fun for the people who loved it, but I would like to mention just a few things, even if they might be controversial to others reading this...  :wink:
IMHO the original movies always thrived on (a) powerful and cunning villain(s) - especially Darth Vader, of course...  :wink:
In this aspect Kylo Ren is the biggest disappointment for me - he's just a spoiled brat with no self control whatsoever, who was lucky to have been granted a high load of Midichlorians by his mother. Even his lightsaber is flawed (the Padawans could build a proper one as young teenagers). And then - after all his training and years of using a lightsaber - he's been cleanly beaten by someone holding a lightsaber for the very first time, strong in the Force or not. I have high hopes, that Snoke is the villain, I'm hoping for.
And as a German I have to say, that the First Order General's speech to the assembled troops really tickled my vomit reflex. It's like JJ gave some footage with speeches of a certain dark character in Germany's history to the actor and told him: "do it like that". Down to the concrete buildings and banners the only thing missing is a short mustache... Purrleease, JJ - we all know George's analogy to the Third Reich, but does it have to be THAT obvious?!
All things said (well - not all, but enough  :wink:), I will definitely watch the movie again after I have digested my first disappointment. I felt similar after watching Episode I for the first time, but I like it much better now...
I really hope that I didn't offend anyone by posting my two cents about the movie...
 
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Jedi Oz 66 on December 17, 2015, 10:22:04 PM
I think there will be only one thing everybody will agree on ,its a xxx of a lot better than the prequels , and there's a 2 more to come, I will be getting the novel to see if the story is fleshed out any more than in the movie.
I took my boys who both loved it. JJ gets a 9 from me.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Nicholas.slaydon on December 17, 2015, 10:31:36 PM
I just saw it and I give it a 0/10. Me, my mother and my sister just got back from seeing it and we all agree that it was horrible. Getting out of the theater I only had 3 things to say about it.

1. I set my expectations VERY low and did not expect to get a good movie, my expectations proved accurate to reality.
2. This is the worst butchery of a series I love since M Night Shaymalan's "The Last Airbender".
3. I miss George Lucas BAD.

Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Remulos on December 18, 2015, 01:44:09 AM
I loved it.

All of it.

I personally thought that Han's death was done very well. The trailers hinted that Harrison Ford would be the emotional center piece for this movie and I am surprised at how well he delivered and it worked for his character. That combined with Kylo Ren's instability and internal turmoil (Adam Driver absolutely owned this role) meant that Han's death was at least meaningful. I knew it was coming the second he stepped out on that walkway but still really felt it when it happened. Rather this than a Marvel-esque churning out of We-were-in-danger-and-now-we're-fine repetitions.

Excellent set up for the other movies, Finn and BB-8 provided some very welcome humour and Rey (while not the best actor on the set) really fills the requirement of the good-hearted underdog, even if it is a bit similar to a certain 1977 film. I still want to find out a lot more, especially about what happened during Kylo Ren's betrayal and the knights of Ren. They even managed to pull off the storm trooper with the stun baton vs Finn with Lightsaber thing that we saw in the trailer and panicked about.

10/10

P.S. I saw it in laser projected IMAX, haven't seen it in a regular cinema yet. If you have the opportunity to do so, GO SEE IT IN LASER PROJECTED IMAX!!!

Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Zen on December 18, 2015, 01:47:40 AM
a 7/10 for me.

Direction good, not a massive use of special effects, smart dialogues and some touching moment.
The film is quite a Episode IV remake with a good screenplay, an eye to old fans -nostalgic operation- (As I am) and an eye to the new generation -some new character and an open ending-. I'm not surprised: Disney is the biggest entertainment colossus in the world, and they're not stupid.
I sense (lol) a clever "dark side" (lol again) operation under the film: a kind of "chess game" to re-establish connections and set up a starting point for Ep. VIII and IX.
The film is driven by Han and Chewie (I have to recover from Han's death, it will take to me a lot of time! :P But it was somehow written: Harrison is 75 and gradually the old main character must be replaced); Ray and Finn are a mirrored copy of Luke and Han (Ep. IV) in their relationship. Nice BB8, smart little guy, the R2 of the situation. Someone (I can't remember) in this forum wrote that this film is Han's, next is Luke's and then the future generation: I perfectly agree.
Most of all I liked Kylo Ren.
I know, you'll say "Ehi, it's not a Vader-Like Villain! He's uncertain and somehow weak!". That's why I liked him (And a good Adam Driver from NY Julliard). He's weak, confused, angry, impulsive (he smashes everything when frustrated), out of control, envious, with a kind of "Self confidence complex" against the powerful grandpa. These factors leads him to the Dark Side as a quick response to his needs (Remember Yoda's words :P).
He needs to hurt in his own wounds during the duel for becoming anger and anger and thus powerful, he's astonished by the power of Rey (I'm trained and this noob beats me!?), he's finally defeated but save.
In my opinion, the character can "grow up" better than other in the next films.
Rey disappointed me: nice and smart, but the "usual" hollywood actress. I'd have preferred someone with a bit more of "personality".

Of course, personal opinions written in a bad english, with all my apologies.

How I can say? I'm split. My childish side says "WOHAAAAAA STAR WARS!!!!". My adult side says "Hm, I see, I understand, I think that...".
BAH!!

WOHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!! STAR WARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

And May the Force be with You all.


Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: anakin2000 on December 18, 2015, 06:16:43 AM
Does anyone else just not like what went on with Kylo Ren??? I mean once he takes the mask off its just weird... he's no longer an intimidating villain. I would much rather it have been his mask never came off. Was kind of a let down. Really downplayed his darkness.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: anakin2000 on December 18, 2015, 06:19:34 AM
And this right here is my big point.... doesn't everyone else agree that the trailer made the movie seem like it would be so much more??? This movie was shorter than the others, which was kind of disappointing
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Remulos on December 18, 2015, 07:15:46 AM
And this right here is my big point.... doesn't everyone else agree that the trailer made the movie seem like it would be so much more??? This movie was shorter than the others, which was kind of disappointing

Considering the task they had of appealing to 3 generations of fans, staying true to the original trilogy, improving upon the prequel trilogy and creating the sequel trilogy I think they did a lot with the time they had.

And I personally thought that Kylo Ren was a great villain. Not the same as Vader or the Emperor but still good. Manic and unpredictable vs cold and calculating.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: BEN KENOBI on December 18, 2015, 08:18:40 AM


   I've been watching Star Wars movies since I was 18 years old in 1977 and I must say I love it !! JJ is the man. Luke will be the man next time around!! :grin:
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: NeptuneTQ on December 18, 2015, 08:26:49 AM
I loved the xxx out of it.  I give it a 10/10 and I've seen every single one (Except for 1977 one cuz I wasn't born yet :)) in the theaters, even the awful rereleased special editions.

I actually loved the xxx out of Kylo Ren, I love what their doing with that character.  We already had Vader, who was masked and intimidating throughout the series, Kylo is not that.  They are purposely humanizing him by taking off the mask, talking about his internal struggle, and I think Adam Driver did a great job showing a sadness in his eyes whenever his mask is off.  I actually would've just rolled my eyes if they tried to just copy Vader's presence throughout this new trilogy.  I think JJ did a great job with this, and it's everything I had hoped the prequels would've been.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: MiSha on December 18, 2015, 09:45:21 AM
I watched it yesterday - so here's my two cents.


Beware of MASSIVE SPOILERS




When I watched "The Hobbit", almost everyone around me was complaining about how this looked childish, that was overdone and all the rest was not accurate to the book. And I was just sitting there and enjoying the heck out of that movie.

I thought it would be the same with TFA - and then it wasn't. It was not all bad, mind you. But I left the theatre with mixed feelings.


The good parts:
- I loved the way they handled the special fx side of the movie. It just worked for me. Seeing the trench run with state of the art special effects was just amazing. Same with the Falcon scenes. The lightsaber blades looked excellent as well.
- I loved the way they introduced BB-8 and how they wrote its character. Funny, empathic. There seems to be so much right with that little guy - he's really challenging R2-D2s throne most favourite droid in the galaxy.
- Rey and Finn. Loved them. Rey more than Finn, but as a team I enjoyed watching them and their unfolding story. There is so much potential there. Especially in the smuggler-jedi character of Rey. Reminded me a little of Kyle Katarn - or how he might have been in early years (I've never read a single SW book, though).
-It was great to see all the nods to the old trilogy (let alone the get-together of the OT cast) - from "cantina aliens" to trench runs - even the death star kind of thing would have done it for me - if there hadn't been the flaws aplenty... which ruined the other half of the movie for me:


What I didn't like:

Vader in the Imperator died, the Empire fell - right? What the heck happened to the all's well in the galaxy? The empire was simply replaced by the so called first order - which is even more powerfull, has advanced technology and - obviously - access to even more ressources? How the scruffy nerfherder did that happen? (I also didn't like the in-your-face parallels to the Third Reich.)

Also: They built an even way BIGGER Death Star - which off-handedly eradiceted the Republic - without anyone noticing or feeling the need to intervene? And when half the world is lost, they attack that massive base with what - X-Wings??? Altough they clearly want to cause area damage? What happened to the y-wing bomber? What happened to the entire fleet? What were they thinking??

Also - Kylo Ren: I liked the otherness in him. Creepy. That is, until he took off his mask and behind the creepy sithly guy, there was just an unsure Marylin Manson fan who just wanted to get hugged. OK, then he killed his father - which, although downright forseeable, got him back to creepy. But he is still a baby-faced emo-kid with anger-management issues and way too little skills. He has that massive lightsaber, can freeze a blaster shot in mid-air but cannot defeat an ex-stormtrooper for the first time wielding a lightsaber he is not quite sure how to use in the first place?

Then there were too many places visited and the reunion of some characters felt a little shallow. So did Chewies reaction to Han's death. I mean, they were best buddies for life. Then Han dies, but hey, here is Rey ready to jump in. Whaaaaat? And did I mention big Gollum Voldemort. (I know the theories - I just don't think he was done well).

And that's how most of the movie felt to me (besides 50% awesome): shallow, flat. Too much intended for a two-hour flick. Consequently, depth was sacrificed - which did not do the whole thing any real justice.

But there is hope: I think the new trilogy has a lot of potential. I get the feeling that it had to get the poison out. Now that that's done, I'm eager to learn where they take it from here.



Two notes on the side: Funny thing is - I grew up with the OT and still loved everything about the Prequel Trilogy. Still, I'm complaining about TFA - what's wrong with me? I will watch TFA again next week and hope, the other half will win me over as well. But I still have my doubts.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: anakin2000 on December 18, 2015, 10:26:48 AM
Yeah overall it was a fantastic installment. I just hated how Han was killed. So stupid IMO. He should've died an honorable death- in a battle or something. And then after he dies he just falls into the endless pit? Come on, almost a little disrepsectful. It was nice to see Rey (metaphorically) destroy Kylo. She'll be an awesome jedi.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Greenie on December 18, 2015, 03:48:07 PM
I just saw it and I give it a 0/10. Me, my mother and my sister just got back from seeing it and we all agree that it was horrible. Getting out of the theater I only had 3 things to say about it.

1. I set my expectations VERY low and did not expect to get a good movie, my expectations proved accurate to reality.
2. This is the worst butchery of a series I love since M Night Shaymalan's "The Last Airbender".
3. I miss George Lucas BAD.

Sounds like you sat down in the wrong theatre and watched a different movie to the rest of us :laugh:
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Zen on December 18, 2015, 03:52:54 PM
Is there a more honorable way to die than trying to save your son? Sometimes it's the hardest fight...
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: anakin2000 on December 18, 2015, 04:26:11 PM
Is there a more honorable way to die than trying to save your son? Sometimes it's the hardest fight...
I know that he was trying to do the right thing but that just doesn't seem like the OT han. Upon further review, (I saw it again today) It was a well written death story. Just doesn't feel like something old (young) han would do.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: anakin2000 on December 18, 2015, 04:31:43 PM
And as a German I have to say, that the First Order General's speech to the assembled troops really tickled my vomit reflex. It's like JJ gave some footage with speeches of a certain dark character in Germany's history to the actor and told him: "do it like that". Down to the concrete buildings and banners the only thing missing is a short mustache... Purrleease, JJ - we all know George's analogy to the Third Reich, but does it have to be THAT obvious?!
All things said (well - not all, but enough  :wink:), I will definitely watch the movie again after I have digested my first disappointment. I felt similar after watching Episode I for the first time, but I like it much better now...
I really hope that I didn't offend anyone by posting my two cents about the movie...

I know exactly what you mean... I was watching it and I was like OK a little too far....
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Remulos on December 18, 2015, 05:32:26 PM
Is there a more honorable way to die than trying to save your son? Sometimes it's the hardest fight...
I know that he was trying to do the right thing but that just doesn't seem like the OT han. Upon further review, (I saw it again today) It was a well written death story. Just doesn't feel like something old (young) han would do.

Absolutely agree with Zens comment.

And I also agree with anakin that it's not what old (young) Han would do but at the same time if he hasn't changed over 30 years then I'd be disappointed.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Zen on December 19, 2015, 01:57:08 PM
I agree, mu friend. Life events changes you and Han did it for the girl he loved, too.
43 yrs, a wife and a son: I can identify myself with such an action.

To my German friend I can say don't be touched. Third Reich was a entire world black spot, not a Deutsch problem. We're all involved. As Italian we has something similar and in the world, now, somethimg similar is happening. Always troops and a leader there are, no matter the colour of his skin and hair.
We can stand united for Peace and Justice, for the weakest rights.

You're clean as my 2,5 yrs old big boy, you are young, you can make the world a better place.

And may the Force be with You all.

Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: 97th Acolyte on December 19, 2015, 02:39:50 PM
Really good film, but only a decent Star Wars film. Trailed off badly after the scene where Kylo interrogated Rey.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: darth hondo on December 19, 2015, 04:41:46 PM
Not sure why but they left out a lot of background info on Rey. Probably intentional. She's a blank page mostly but with surprisingly phenomenal skills. How is she related to other main characters, for example?
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: anakin2000 on December 19, 2015, 05:03:09 PM
Not sure why but they left out a lot of background info on Rey. Probably intentional. She's a blank page mostly but with surprisingly phenomenal skills. How is she related to other main characters, for example?

I doubt there is any relation. It was probably just by some miracle. You know, midichlorians or something :laugh:
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Wilbur on December 19, 2015, 06:45:54 PM
So I'll throw it out there...Rey is Luke's daughter.  Through the whole movie whenever she brings up her parents around Han and Leia they act as if they know something.  Also interesting, as pointed out by others, is that  Hans son's real name is Ben.  Ben was the name of Luke's son in the old EU.  Now couple that with Rey who is a spitting image of Jaina (strong in the force, independent, excellent with technology/fixing things, and a natural pilot).  It's like they are twisting it but still keeping the light side dark side struggle within the vader family tree.

So it's like the fast forwarded 30 years took out the vong war  and smashed together elements of the second galactic civil war with Luke's exile afterwards due to allowing Jacen to fall to the dark side.  Also could explain why Rey didn't have parents.  When Luke went into exile he left here on Jaku and what if kylo killed her mom as Jacen killed Mara?
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: anakin2000 on December 19, 2015, 07:47:13 PM
So I'll throw it out there...Rey is Luke's daughter.  Through the whole movie whenever she brings up her parents around Han and Leia they act as if they know something.  Also interesting, as pointed out by others, is that  Hans son's real name is Ben.  Ben was the name of Luke's son in the old EU.  Now couple that with Rey who is a spitting image of Jaina (strong in the force, independent, excellent with technology/fixing things, and a natural pilot).  It's like they are twisting it but still keeping the light side dark side struggle within the vader family tree.

So it's like the fast forwarded 30 years took out the vong war  and smashed together elements of the second galactic civil war with Luke's exile afterwards due to allowing Jacen to fall to the dark side.  Also could explain why Rey didn't have parents.  When Luke went into exile he left here on Jaku and what if kylo killed her mom as Jacen killed Mara?
Just to be clear this is a theory correct? I honestly don't think she is. Not saying you're wrong though. Just the way it happened, it wasn't an, "Oh we'll just drop her off as a baby with random 'relatives'" as much as it was she was just abandoned as a little girl. Thats the only reason I say she's not.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: anakin2000 on December 19, 2015, 07:49:05 PM
This just popped in my head- was anyones elses favorite moment when Finn was like, "We'll just use the force" and Han said, "Thats not how the force works!" Had me laughing  :laugh:
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Wilbur on December 19, 2015, 08:47:11 PM
This just popped in my head- was anyones elses favorite moment when Finn was like, "We'll just use the force" and Han said, "Thats not how the force works!" Had me laughing  :laugh:

I enjoyed all of Finns humor lol

Yes all of what I said was a theory, but I also wanted to note what I interpreted as a surprisingly strong amount, yet subtlety executed nods to old EU
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: darth hondo on December 19, 2015, 09:03:03 PM
So I'll throw it out there...Rey is Luke's daughter.  Through the whole movie whenever she brings up her parents around Han and Leia they act as if they know something.  Also interesting, as pointed out by others, is that  Hans son's real name is Ben.  Ben was the name of Luke's son in the old EU.  Now couple that with Rey who is a spitting image of Jaina (strong in the force, independent, excellent with technology/fixing things, and a natural pilot).  It's like they are twisting it but still keeping the light side dark side struggle within the vader family tree.

So it's like the fast forwarded 30 years took out the vong war  and smashed together elements of the second galactic civil war with Luke's exile afterwards due to allowing Jacen to fall to the dark side.  Also could explain why Rey didn't have parents.  When Luke went into exile he left here on Jaku and what if kylo killed her mom as Jacen killed Mara?
Just to be clear this is a theory correct? I honestly don't think she is. Not saying you're wrong though. Just the way it happened, it wasn't an, "Oh we'll just drop her off as a baby with random 'relatives'" as much as it was she was just abandoned as a little girl. Thats the only reason I say she's not.
A young, abandoned force sensitive living on a desert planet? Sounds strangely familiar. Both PT and OT had similar central characters. After episode 4, no one would have thought that Vader is Luke's father.

Rey could be a child of Luke or Han/Leia. Her background could figure in significantly  in Ep. 8. Some significant backstory is being kept in the dark.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Blunt instrument on December 19, 2015, 11:45:37 PM
Wow. Just saw it! Any Star Wars film for me is immediately at least an 8/10 !

Fin and Poe were great, but then Poe disappeared for most of the movie. Great to see all of the old cast. Great new landscapes and vehicles, weapons, costumes, aliens etc.

But: plot - a droid carrying important plans being hunted and a Death Star that needs to be blown up?

Also, does anyone get the feeling that our favourite ship the Falcon got a raping on screen by being being smashed into deserts and forrests etc?

Isn't Kylo the leader of the 'knights of Ren'? So he must be the best swordsman of them all? He got owned by an amateur!

Lastly, not as much use of the force as id like to see.

Still a great movie though. Just my thoughts. I'd pay to see it again. They have set it up well for 8&9 too
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Derro Kuspin on December 20, 2015, 12:43:02 AM
I agree, mu friend. Life events changes you and Han did it for the girl he loved, too.
43 yrs, a wife and a son: I can identify myself with such an action.

To my German friend I can say don't be touched. Third Reich was a entire world black spot, not a Deutsch problem. We're all involved. As Italian we has something similar and in the world, now, somethimg similar is happening. Always troops and a leader there are, no matter the colour of his skin and hair.
We can stand united for Peace and Justice, for the weakest rights.

You're clean as my 2,5 yrs old big boy, you are young, you can make the world a better place.

And may the Force be with You all.

I'm 43, too (seems to be a common age here  :wink:) and have an 8 years old son - I would totally and gladly die to save him anytime... ...but an old and weathered hero like Han should have realized, that - knowing well the powerful lure of the Dark Side - it couldn't just be done there and then, not after what his son has obviously become. He should have known, that he wouldn't be able to convert him by his sacrifice on that bridge alone. On the contrary, that only deepened Ben's/Kylo's devotion to the Dark Side. I would have tried to capture him alive - even if the task would seem almost impossible - and then go slow on bringing my son back to the Light Side.
OK, it was a situation on the brink of a catastrophy and thus it's legit for me, that he acted the way he did, but did he have to just drop of the bridge into the chasm and be gone for good, the story continuing elsewhere right away? A character like Han deserves to have a more dramatical death (e.g. dying in the arms of Chewie), as well as giving us time to mourn. When I first saw Vader on the funeral pyre some 30 years ago, I cried my eyes out - and enjoyed the emotional moment immensly... Call me overly emotional, but I would have loved (in a bittersweet way) if Chewie would have carried Han's body and laid him down in front of a (crying) Leia to have a proper funeral afterwards.
     
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Zen on December 20, 2015, 01:32:10 AM
Ahah, the good old sw generation! Emotionally I'd have preferred a more celebrative scene, I agree.

Maybe the sceeenplayers wanted to underlined deep Han's drives to act in a ingenuos way: the hope, the pain, his personal responsability, Leia asking him to bring back to her their son. Even his constant self over-consideration, how can I say better?

Anyway, I'm in a deep mourning...
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: BEN KENOBI on December 20, 2015, 05:53:05 AM
 :cheesy: :cheesy:

   What I'm about to say is going to blow your minds ;but, Rey is Luke's daughter !! Just wait and see. :evil:
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: DARTH VADER on December 20, 2015, 06:50:53 AM
Saw it last night.

I loved it.
There were flaws - of course.

My biggest issue was the saber battle(s) - as already pointed out above - someone who just picked up a saber is not going to be a match for a trained swordsman. period.

That aside - I loved the tie-backs to ANH, the scenes, the (slightly modified, but still recognizable) quotes and the obvious corollaries between characters.
Remember -- they are trying to recover fans after the debacle that was the prequel trilogy

I loved Kylo Ren, overall. His whinging actually made sense and will, IMO, make his a good character arc over all 3 movies.
He is under the influence of a bad man...   he's not quite there yet, and he knows - deep in his heart - that he's not doing "the right thing", but he's drifting down, little by little -- and finally takes that huge step, killing his father.
(excellent death scene of Han, BTW - completely in line with the core, ADULT character (as opposed to the juvenile smuggler that he used to be and seemed to be trying to keep a facade of at his intro in TFA)


Now...  for the theory:
My friends and I came up with 2 ideas...
1- Rey is Luke's daughter.
2- Rey is Han and Leia's daughter and possibly the twin of Ben/Kylo. This preserves the Skywalker twin syndrome... ties a little bit into the EU stuff and makes the eventual final showdown between Kylo and Rey to be much more angst-ridden. She was taken by Luke...

both scenarios tie in to the same concept after that, though
Luke left her on Jakku (for some undetermined reason) on his way to the Jedi temple.
That's why the old man with the map was also on Jakku.

After all -- I did predict that Kylo Ren was the son of Leia and Han. :)
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Greenie on December 20, 2015, 06:56:02 AM
I agree, Rey is Luke's daughter. The lightsaber is being passed through the family. It seemed strange that her and Leia hugged but had 'never' met, although Leia looked like she reconised her. But I'm wondering who's x-wing helmet did she have, was it from the battle of Jakku or is it from a parent. It looked like R3B written in aurebesh on the side (?)
Plenty of seeds being sown for sequels, prequels, and back stories for big screen, tv and books
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: rabbitdragon on December 20, 2015, 10:04:36 AM
Ok, I am going to chime in here on the Saber battle at the end.  Just my 2 cents so not trying to start anything and do respect other points on this.  Kylo Ren had been shot and just killed his father so both physical injury and psychological injury.  Both of these would have affected his skills in combat making him weaker.  I was pretty sure Finn was taken really young and trained as a storm trooper.  Being trained most of your life in a military setting he would have been trained in different defense and fighting skills so he would not have been a rookie with a weapon even a lightsaber.  Fins hit with the saber was a lucky hit or a skilled hit both could have happened which just further weakened Kylo.  So Kylo has been shot, hit with a saber blow, killed his father and been bleeding out for a while as shown by the blood on the ground.  Rey also showed some fighting skills in the beginning when she takes out the 2 attackers so again some kind of skills (and she had her pike type weapon, we know she is force sensitive which gives her some advantage even if she does not know how to use the powers just like Anakin could pod race without training.  In the end she was going against a very very week Kylo at that point.  To me it seemed very possible.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Scorpion on December 20, 2015, 11:46:33 AM
:cheesy: :cheesy:

   What I'm about to say is going to blow your minds ;but, Rey is Luke's daughter !! Just wait and see. :evil:

What if she's RENs sister?
Would explain the bond type relation she had with han
I mean they both know the force her and ren??
Maby leia didn't tell Han about her before they parted?

Ah only 2 yrs till we know
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: onigiri34 on December 20, 2015, 01:10:16 PM
Is Snoke (supreme leader) Darth Plagueis, he definitely looked like he is from the Muun race? 
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: WEDGE ANTILLES on December 20, 2015, 01:11:37 PM
if Luke skywalker abandoned his daughter in the hands of Simon Pegg with no intention of ever coming back for her, then I give up.   I can't get behind that.  what self-respecting Parent abandons his toddler, AT THE MALL, much less, on a desert planet surrounded by aliens that don't care about her?



I see only 2 possibilities:

1).  Luke left his daughter with Simon-Pegg-in-a-rubber-suit, with the intention of returning for her, WITHIN DAYS.  he ran into trouble.  he got stranded on the Jedi Temple Planet, with no ship / no hyperdrive.  he had no way of leaving the planet.  he had left a trail of breadcrumbs in R2, in case he ran into trouble, but nobody was ever smart enough to figure it out and come rescue him. until now.

2).  Kylo left her on Jakku.  he was told by Snoke to kill her, along with any other jedi younglings in Luke's care..  but he couldn't bring himself to kill his own family/sister/cousin/whatever.   instead he left her on the garbage planet as a way of discarding her, taking her out of the game, without actually bringing himself to kill her.  this is his weakness:  he is "tempted by the light side".   this is why he had to kill Han: to redeem himself in the eyes of the supreme leader. (after failing to kill the girl, many years ago).

kylo knows something about "the girl from jakku" -- he reacted strongly when she was brought to his attention -- he knows something about her.  this much is obvious.
(he may be the one who left her on jakku in the first place , as a way of hiding his 'light side tendencies' from his supreme leader, he was tasked with killing her, but at the time he was "too weak" to kill her --- now he's not anymore, as witnessed by what he did to Han) 
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Drewbacca on December 20, 2015, 02:42:27 PM
Well I have to say that it was basically A New Hope rerun. It was a great film and action packed (I'd give it a 8/10). Still, many questions were raised without details. I do think that Rey shouldn't be able to fight or use the force so efficiently when not trained at all. Also, Finn easily maneuvered the lightsaber without much training. It was great seeing the old cast and the humor elements in the film were great! My favorite character so far (of the cast) is Poe Dameron by far. The X-wings fighting looked extremely realistic and was so much fun to watch. Also, the music score seemed to be a little off at times. Well, that's enough critical stuff. Overall, I thought it was a really great film and I can't wait for the next two!
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: TrypWyr on December 20, 2015, 02:53:18 PM
I wondered if Rey has had her memories changed somehow, and actually had been trained as a Jedi. It would explain her skills not only with the Force and the lightsaber but also her ability to understand other languages and pilot/fix starships.

When Kylo is interrogating her, he sees an ocean and an island... Sound familiar? I think she's already been with Luke at some point.

Ah, the joy of speculation! :)
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: WEDGE ANTILLES on December 20, 2015, 04:11:25 PM
"through the force, things you will see.  the future.  the past.  old friends, long gone."

(doesn't mean she was with him on the island)  :wink:
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Namine on December 20, 2015, 06:30:14 PM
I was pleasantly surprised with this movie.  Due to the hype, I set my expectations a bit lower, and wound up happy with the movie. 
While I hated seeing Han die, it was done well in my opinion.

I was surprised at how strong Kylo was with the force, and was not surprised he wasnt all that strong with his lightsaber.  It shows where he focused most of his training.

I was disappointed that Luke was only seen for the last 5 seconds of the movie.

I think Gen. Hux was a bit too over the top (a bit too dramatic).

Ultimately, it answers some questions as to how things got to where they were, and of course asks a few more questions (is Rey Luke's daughter? Where did Snoke come from and how did he pull Ben from Luke and his parents).

I will be watching it again next weekend (yea, only seen it once.. :)  )
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Psab Keel on December 21, 2015, 02:42:22 AM
I've only seen it once thus far and while the movie was predictable, I found it really entertaining.  I'm planning on seeing it a few more times in the theater.  It had a darker vibe than I was expecting.

I wanted to add a thought or two to Wedge's assessment of Rey and Luke possibly being her father.  Perhaps once Ren turned, he either fought Luke and left him for dead, or stranded him on the island with no means of escape, and took Rey with him with the intention of killing her.  Ultimately because he couldn't bring himself to do it, he abandoned her to the desert dwellers as a scavenger.

Or perhaps there is no relation to the Skywalker's or Solo's.  I especially doubt any relation to Han or Leia as their daughter.  They would have said something to her, or mentioned her in some capacity.

I think that while Rey's force powers were strong, she was able to beat Ren in duel simply because she's been raised a scavenger her whole life and had to fight just to survive and with Kylo Ren being wounded and not extremely adept at using weapon, she was successful in besting him.  Perhaps that is likely to change in future episodes.

For all of the emotional reactions to the trailers, while I got goosebumps, I admit I never cried.  But I did get a bit misty eyed seeing Luke's face.  His character, to me is the heart and soul of the series, and I can't WAIT to see what he is up to in the next movie(s).

Psab
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: anakin2000 on December 21, 2015, 08:24:20 AM
I think that some great points have been brought up regarding Rey's ability to fight-
A. She's force sensitive, so she already has the instict to do so
B. She was raised on a desert planet and has been a scavenger her whole life- as she said, "I think i can handle myself"
C. Her saberstaff thing is a pretty close comparison to wielding a lightsaber- she used it all the time

I don't think necessarily think Kylo had anything to do with her beginning, but it certainly is something to ponder. She is probably not Han and Leia's daughter, they would've known and said something.
I think for sure all the details will be revealed in Episode 8, which by the way, for those of you counting, is only 521 DAYS AWAY!
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Greenie on December 21, 2015, 09:22:32 AM
I'm liking the theories laid down by Wedge. But I need to know the significance of the x-wing pilot doll and the helmet
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: EyeoftheRaven on December 21, 2015, 09:43:40 AM
Anybody think that the way they killed Han left the door open for a return if they change their minds down the line?  The body disappears into the pit, and both Luke and Darth Maul (while cut in half!) survive these long falls due to chutes and ships etc. 

To be clear, I do think he's dead, but I notice the movie convention of "there's no body to bury" in play, which leaves a small door open for a reveal later that he was saved and his wound treated by Snoke so he could use Han against Kylo should the need arise (or some other similar scenario).
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: WEDGE ANTILLES on December 21, 2015, 10:00:06 AM
they are surrounded by the wreckage of a great battle.  there are crashed Xwings sticking out of the sand.  plenty of helmets lying around.  the color scheme on the helmet is entirely new (blue and yellow); this is NOT luke's helmet, nor any other pilot from the OT.   she has a doll made from the fabric of an orange jumpsuit -- again: lots of this lying around.  none of this alludes to any given character: it only alludes to "rebel alliance".

the significance is: she identifies with the rebellion side of the conflict -- she knows which side she comes from.   (she does not wear a TIE helmet, nor make dolls from black cloth, for example).  she is waiting for her "family", and the helmet shows a connection to where her family comes from.  thats it.  that's the only significance. 
 
 

at first the helmet made me think of luke, like, perhaps she is connected directly to luke -- I think that was intentional -- but the colors are all wrong. (also intentional -- if this was luke's specific helmet, then the 'hint' would be too easy LOL).   :wink:

-===-

I don't think Han will return.  Harrison is too old.  also the entire planet blew up.  are we to assume that everyone got off safely: Hux, Ren, Phasma, the ghost-of-Han, etc..?

no.  this isn't Lucas.   there will be no rewrites.   Han's dead.  :(

Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: anakin2000 on December 21, 2015, 10:24:45 AM
Agree 100% with wedge. Han is gone for good. Its such a sad but unfortunate truth. Do you guys remember? Harrison Ford hate(s)/(d) the character. He wanted Han killed off in Ep. 6. Also he demands way too much money for them to bring him back. He's done.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: onigiri34 on December 21, 2015, 10:31:02 AM
I still feel that Rey is Leia/Han's daughter, either they don't realize it, or they never told her for some sickening reason and wanted her to go to Luke etc. when she was ready to learn/accept the force.

Otherwise, she may just be someone force-sensitive and is connected to somebody in our beloved series we do not know yet. I don't know if Luke's daughter, I feel they may have said something in the opening credits too, that Luke was married or whatever else. This did not occur anywhere in the movies, also mention of Luke having a significant other.

We all know Mara is not with these movies.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Psab Keel on December 21, 2015, 12:10:01 PM
I concur with Wedge.  Jakku is littered in the remains of the Rebel conflict with the Empire.  Rey wearing the helmet and the doll only alludes to what side she considers herself on. 

I think it would even be more interesting if she had no relation at all to the Skywalker line.  I think because everyone expects it, they might consider trying to go a different route.  She talks about Luke with this almost reverence because if you think about it, the Jedi haven't been seen or heard much of since the time of the prequels.

The duels in the original trilogy had either few witnesses (all who died or vanished) or no witnesses at all.  So as far as the characters in the sequel trilogy are concerned, the Jedi and the Force are just mythic ideas and not actually real.

Or perhaps if she is the offspring of Luke then this would easily explain Luke's absence from the conflict and why he and his daughter are separated. Kylo Ren is able to get the upper hand over Luke, fights him and leaves him for dead, stranded on the island with no means of escape. Kylo kidnaps Rey to train her as a Sith Lord, but when she refuses he dumps her off at Jakku, unable to kill her because of him feeling the pull of the light side and having mercy on her.

I really can't wait to see it again!
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Shadeslinger on December 21, 2015, 01:09:05 PM
I don't mean to throw water...but, I think the reason why Rey was so competent with a saber and why her force powers "awakened" so quickly...was because JJ knew he needed a lightsaber fight in this movie and that's really all. I may be wrong and the theories I'm reading are enjoyable but I don't think she is related to either the Solo's or Skywalker. Just my .02

I really enjoyed the movie though! 
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: TrypWyr on December 21, 2015, 01:44:15 PM
The body disappears into the pit, and both Luke and Darth Maul (while cut in half!) survive these long falls due to chutes and ships etc. 

However, neither Bespin not Naboo were completely obliterated minutes later...
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: anakin2000 on December 21, 2015, 02:24:10 PM
I don't mean to throw water...but, I think the reason why Rey was so competent with a saber and why her force powers "awakened" so quickly...was because JJ knew he needed a lightsaber fight in this movie and that's really all. I may be wrong and the theories I'm reading are enjoyable but I don't think she is related to either the Solo's or Skywalker. Just my .02

I really enjoyed the movie though!

I hope she isn't. It'd be interesting for a change to have a kind of unexpected hero. I think if she was Luke's daughter it would just kind of be the same as luke and anakin. Having an outsider to that lineage but still be force sensitive would be nice
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: KI-ADI-MUNDI on December 21, 2015, 02:41:56 PM
The music that plays when when she pulls that lightsaber from the snow and it lands in her hand tells you exactly who her father is.... There are lots of gives to the truth in this movie given in the music...
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Zen on December 21, 2015, 02:55:46 PM
No, Master Ki-Adi,  she can't be Beach Boy's daughter!!! /mode Anakin - Vader on/ NUUUUOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
:P
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: MACE WINDU on December 21, 2015, 03:32:08 PM
I ordered the visual dictionary from Amazon and got it today.  It does state clearly the origins of the doll and the Alliance fighter pilot helmet.  Neither related to Luke.

That said,  to be as strong as she is in an untrained state, I'd be surprised if she's NOT from the Skywalker line.  Time will tell :)

Loved the movie, can't wait to see it again.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Greenie on December 21, 2015, 03:46:07 PM
The music that plays when when she pulls that lightsaber from the snow and it lands in her hand tells you exactly who her father is.... There are lots of gives to the truth in this movie given in the music...

Yes. And when Leia hugs Rey
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: jediaryeh on December 21, 2015, 05:45:28 PM
Just saw it for the first time this afternoon. I loved the 3D treatment - while not essential, it really lent some depth to the film (*dodge*).  But I'm having trouble letting everything settle; please forgive me as I process with you (because if you can't process SW here, where can you?!).

Right now, I'm not feeling all that great about VII.  It wasn't BAD...really...but it wasn't all that good.  In some ways, JJ fell into the same trap as Lucas did with the prequels: he was so overwhelmed with the gee whiz factor of working on Star Wars that he forgot what gave the original movies their power: hope, interpersonal chemistry and the Force.

JJ had all the right elements to do something amazing.  A great cast.  Superb music.  Astounding special effects.  A dynamite universe and mythology to build upon.  And not only did he completely fail to make it all gel, but he also left me feeling like the richness of the earlier movies was squandered to make Disney a buck.

Ultimately, the movie didn't have any HEART.  There was no meaning.  No deeper lessons were learned.  No philosophy was explained.  No spiritual insights into the nature of the Force were offered.  Heck - there wasn't even any uplift!  Instead, there were some neat scenes and fun romps.  And more plot holes than you could fly a fleet of YT-1300s through.

Han's death really bugs me.  As a father of two young children, I agree with those who shared the fact that Han's sacrifice was appropriate - a gift of love.  And I'm cool with that!  (Yes, I misted over tucking my son into bed this evening, remembering Han's last gesture.)  But nothing was gained by his death.  There was no lesson taught - no resonance that brought catharsis and meaning to the event. 

When dealing with a hero myth (and that's exactly Lucas' and JJ's positions), the death of a main character has to bring something new to the other protagonists.  In this case, Han's death felt like a cheap ploy.  To twist with universes for a moment (and forgive me if I'm breaking any rules here), Spock's death in The Wrath of Khan had everything that this scene lacked.

There were many moments in the movie that I loved.  I really felt like I was back in the Star Wars universe again - and that was wonderful!  But not giving Luke a single line?  Not giving us more than a few seconds of dialog between Han and Leia?  And what was up with those goofy lines about Han loving the bowcaster?  You'd think that he'd never seen one before!  C'mon, JJ.

Yes, it was certainly Star Wars.  And I want to watch it again - I feel that there's a lot more there than I took in at first viewing.  But this wasn't the movie that I was looking for.  Move along.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Psab Keel on December 22, 2015, 06:59:05 AM
I think Han's death accomplished several things.  One, it satisfied Harrison Ford and Lawrence Kasdan's desire to kill the character off in a noble way because Han wasn't as central to the whole theme of the Force.  What more noble way to die than trying to save your own child?  I read that Harrison Ford is listed in the cast for at least episode 8.  I hope it's a flashback or something because I think bringing his character back would only cheapen his death.

Two it firmly established that Kylo Ren was fully committing himself to the Dark Side, something even his grandfather wasn't able to do, and it also was an assurance to Snoke that Ren was serious about snuffing out his attachments to the light. 

There is a great article called, Star Wars fans hate Star Wars. Think about it. George Lucas tried to do something new with episodes 1, 2, and 3 and the fans hated him so much for it that he swore to never make another Star Wars film, sell his life's work and the companies he created out of nothing to make his movies. He retired from the business and refuses to show any of his future movies to anyone but his friends because of the vitriol unfairly hurled at him.

So when Disney acquires the company, why in their right mind would they risk further alienating their fanbase? It was too much of a financial risk. I think they played it smart. Get the fans back on board by giving them what they want. Star wars fans want that euphoric feeling they had when their minds were blown when they were introduced to that Galaxy far, far away. Nothing will ever recapture that. As much as I love this crazy space saga, in the end it is just a movie.

Is The Force Awakens perfect? No. But audiences typically want more of the same, just repackaged as new. Myths are the same stories told again and again. The original 1977 film is nothing more than a stylized throwback to the adventure serials of the 1930s and 40s. It was so powerfully done that nothing will ever top it and I for one am ok with that. I felt that they did a good job of establishing the new generation of characters.  Where I was a bit let down was that the plot was the same as the original film, though I understand why they did it.  I just hope that they are willing to take some more risks with the next installments.





Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: ShadyCanuck on December 22, 2015, 12:26:25 PM
A friend asked me to recall the "there has been an awakening, have you felt it?  Of the darkness, and the light?" from the trailer and the movie.  And everyone assumes that the darkness is Kylo Ren and the light is Rey.  But why would Snoke ask KR this question if KR, who was already established with the First Order, was the newly awakened darkness?  So that leaves either Finn, or possibly Poe (a distant second IMO).  But I think Finn will be the awakened Darksider.

Both Finn & Poe show excellent aptitude doing things that should be impossible (shooting in the Falcon's gun turret & lightsabers, resisting mind probes and crack X-Wing piloting) but only Finn has the anger, fear, and attachment to Rey (that could trigger jealousy & fear of loss) that could foreshadow a fall to the dark side.

The more I think about this hair-brained conspiracy theory, the more it rings true to me.  If you hadn't seen the OT, nobody would have thought that the courageous young Anakin from TPM would become Darth Vader.  They reused so much of the plot from ANH in TFA, so why not something from TPM?
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: anakin2000 on December 22, 2015, 03:06:03 PM
A friend asked me to recall the "there has been an awakening, have you felt it?  Of the darkness, and the light?" from the trailer and the movie.  And everyone assumes that the darkness is Kylo Ren and the light is Rey.  But why would Snoke ask KR this question if KR, who was already established with the First Order, was the newly awakened darkness?  So that leaves either Finn, or possibly Poe (a distant second IMO).  But I think Finn will be the awakened Darksider.

Both Finn & Poe show excellent aptitude doing things that should be impossible (shooting in the Falcon's gun turret & lightsabers, resisting mind probes and crack X-Wing piloting) but only Finn has the anger, fear, and attachment to Rey (that could trigger jealousy & fear of loss) that could foreshadow a fall to the dark side.

The more I think about this hair-brained conspiracy theory, the more it rings true to me.  If you hadn't seen the OT, nobody would have thought that the courageous young Anakin from TPM would become Darth Vader.  They reused so much of the plot from ANH in TFA, so why not something from TPM?

Fascinating theory. But Finn would turn to the dark side, he wouldn't 'awaken' it. Also, if we believe packaging on toys, finn is lando calrissians son. He's not force sensitive. Plus, "the dark side, and the light" line wasn't in the movie. I doubt either of them will become siths. It will be Kylo and Master Snoke, and thats probably it
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: BEN KENOBI on December 22, 2015, 03:28:07 PM


   Saw it again last night and I'm seeing it again next week. :grin:
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: ShadyCanuck on December 22, 2015, 05:08:22 PM
Fascinating theory. But Finn would turn to the dark side, he wouldn't 'awaken' it. Also, if we believe packaging on toys, finn is lando calrissians son. He's not force sensitive. Plus, "the dark side, and the light" line wasn't in the movie. I doubt either of them will become siths. It will be Kylo and Master Snoke, and thats probably it
That assumes that everyone who is force sensitive defaults to the light side; wouldn't an individual be predisposed to have either light side or dark side tendencies based on life experience and personality traits?  You are only "turned" if you are swayed from your natural force tendency.  And the Lando parentage thing is likely bunk from an unreliable vendor/source.

Plus why would you say that Finn is definitely not force sensitive?  Didn't Kylo Ren "sense" him during the opening scene?  And that was some pretty gifted shooting & sabering for a muggle (sorry - I'm mixing my Fantasy metaphors).
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: TrypWyr on December 22, 2015, 07:19:32 PM
It will be Kylo and Master Snoke, and thats probably it

Quote from: Yoda
Always two, there are; no more, no less. A master and an apprentice.

 :tongue:
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: anakin2000 on December 23, 2015, 09:14:31 AM
Fascinating theory. But Finn would turn to the dark side, he wouldn't 'awaken' it. Also, if we believe packaging on toys, finn is lando calrissians son. He's not force sensitive. Plus, "the dark side, and the light" line wasn't in the movie. I doubt either of them will become siths. It will be Kylo and Master Snoke, and thats probably it
That assumes that everyone who is force sensitive defaults to the light side; wouldn't an individual be predisposed to have either light side or dark side tendencies based on life experience and personality traits?  You are only "turned" if you are swayed from your natural force tendency.  And the Lando parentage thing is likely bunk from an unreliable vendor/source.

Plus why would you say that Finn is definitely not force sensitive?  Didn't Kylo Ren "sense" him during the opening scene?  And that was some pretty gifted shooting & sabering for a muggle (sorry - I'm mixing my Fantasy metaphors).

Force sensitive people have the ability to sense non sensitive people's feelings, emotions, etc. Consider Anakin in the prequels with both his mom and padme, and they were both regular people.
Regarding his mastery of the weaponry- he has been trained as a stormtrooper all his life, he knows how to use a gun even if he swears not to kill for them. Regarding the lightsaber combat, he was actually pretty raw with it in both the scene on that grassy planet (Ilenea or something?) and the fight against kylo. Plus did you recognize that stormtroopers had those laser shock weapons that were very comperable to a lightsaber in the fighting style? He was also trained to use one of those. Not to mention he LOST to the stormtrooper and had to have Solo bail him out
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: merCUrium on December 23, 2015, 01:44:41 PM
Saw it twice by now and I loved it from the first second.

On the movie/production side:
I saw both 3d and 2d and I like both. Very nice use of 3d, though in fast scenes it seems to get a bit more blurry which throws me out of illusion, 2d is more consistent in this regard.
PRACTICAL FX xxx yeah!! They blew loads of charges and had a bunch of nicely designed/played/puppeteered (hows that spelled correctly?) aliens/droids and most important used fully illuminated light saber props!
Great actors.

On the story:
I totally  like the story and disagree with the most wide spread complaints. I think JJ and Kasdan are very well aware of what might be seen as week point, but wanted the things to be exactly as they are on purpose. Especially the often hated demasking of Kylo Ren is a great preparation for a great story arc over this trilogy, with many ups and downs and twists to come. Story telling developed a lot since the OT and Disney has proven masterful at this skill (eg. see the Dare Devil or Jessica Jones series on Netflix or the latest Marvel Movies and Pixar in general). TFA is all about emotions and its overall core emotion I think is (though this no real emotion  :undecided:) "can it please be simply black and white - no you can not have it that easy".
Though I have some minor logic flaws (besides the major physics issues which I ignore since its Star Wars):
- why can't a Resistance war room navigation computer recognize a whole star map sector, when ist uploaded?
- what awakens R2 from its hibernation in the end?

And to contradict some further criticism:
- I think Hux overactingly speech is not overacting by Gleeson but by Hux, he is not the real battle proven bad xxx Empire General, but a upstart in a permanent struggle against Ren for the favor of Snoke. And the severe parallels to the Reichsparteitag Speech is clearly a symbol of the danger of another regime rising.
- Han's death: it's really sad to lose him right when we thought he is back. But it made sense in the big picture. The only complaint I had after the first viewing was that there was very little time to mourn the loss of this big hero. But the second time seeing it in 2d there seems to be more time..

Bevor I come to the great Rey theories, lets have a little look on Poe:
What a great piloting performance, that was what I expected to see from "the best fighter pilot in the whole universe". In the Battle of Takodana this is simply jaw dropping, how every shot is a hit and he precisely shoots Troopes right beneath Han, Chewy, Finn. And if you read the "Shattered Empire" Comic there might be some chance that his abilities are part inherited part "gifted". But I don't want to spoil any further if you want to read this great 4 issue mini comic series.

Now to Rey:
I like to read all those theories and had my own started thinking of right during the credits.
Han and Leia are pretty sure not her parents, there would have been more hints on it. Especially Leia would have had to recognize her, if not on sight then at least through the force. And if she would be Bens sister the interrogation should end in a completely different way. The Twin theory is out by the age of the two, I would guess the are at least five years apart.
Total off of the Skywalker lineage would be story telling wise more interesting, but I do think there are loads of clues leading to Luke being her father. Some have been mentioned yet, what I would like to add is: first the similarities of Rey to the young Padme and Leia. Then costume/prop clues, her Jakku outfit resembles a mix of the Tatooine Luke and Republic Jedi. Next the vision when she touches the Saber in Maz Kanata's castle: first it cuts to Bespin right before the "I am your father" scene and next to Luke mourning, probably the destruction of his academy, betrayal by Ben and death of his students. And next cut is to Rey, when abandoned on Jakku. The Graflex is definitely a heritage of the Skywalker family.
The thing I ask me is, why she does not remember Luke being her father and why/how she got to Jakku. The Kylo trying to kill her but couldn't theory is plausible to the point when they meet in reality, this would work out differently I think. His reaction to "the girl from Jakku" is definitely suspicious though.
Lets bring up a totally new possibility: maybe Luke even didn't know he has a daughter. Maz says (paraphrased) "they would have never returned. but there is one that could" to which Rey answers "Luke Skywalker". Maybe her mother was killed by Kylo Ren, or she (or someone else caring for her) brought her to Jakku in despair of another option. This would leave plenty of story options but delivering the almost necessity of Rey being Skywalker offspring.
Further clues to the Skywalker "genes": she is a tinkering savant and flying prodigy flying the Falcon unseen and without a copilot (can't remember this ever been done in OT, right?) and instantly repairs the buggy mods to it.

And finally a word on the sword fight:
Kylo has proven tremendous abilities with the force, but his lack of sword wielding is pretty natural. Even Luke never had any true sword lessons, so we can not expect PT like fights, at least till EP IX when probably Rey and Kylo are finally trained and the last Star Wars Trilogy fight touches the screen. His scenes when he tries to rage in fury, but only demolishes the furniture, show he probably never had face any real opponent. And he is wounded by Chewies Bow Caster which is clearly a hack of a mighty blaster.
Then Rey seems a true natural with the force and with adaptation at all, and she learns all the things of the tales about Jedi's abilities would work for real (scene with force trick on trooper). In the end the fight is a tie through higher force (which is a great directing solution in my opinion), so Rey didn't defeat him at all, she just stood against him pretty well for a few minutes.

So far I look forward to discuss along..

MTFBWY
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: KingOfDathomir on December 23, 2015, 09:44:13 PM
If Star Wars is about the Skywalker legacy, then Rey must be Luke's daughter. I know, I know, and believe me when I say I've been up and down about this. But with Kylo as the only Skywalker moving forward, the legacy dies drowned in the dark side. There must be a Skywalker hero to save the galaxy. As far as Kylo during his duel goes, I think he was using his pain to boost his strength through the dark side, hence his persistant smacking of his wounds.

This film was very enjoyable, as a movie and a Star Wars title. 8.5/10 fo sho.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: anakin2000 on December 24, 2015, 07:57:21 AM
In the end the fight is a tie through higher force (which is a great directing solution in my opinion), so Rey didn't defeat him at all, she just stood against him pretty well for a few minutes.

So far I look forward to discuss along..

MTFBWY

I mean she stabbed him in the chest, cut his face, and leg? I think she won haha
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Darth Chasm on December 24, 2015, 08:01:09 AM
Saw it for a second time last night and tried to take note of a few things. I am still on the fence with Rey's parentage, but I did notice when Maz is talking to Rey after Rey's vision she says something along the lines of--You know your FAMILY is not coming back, but SOMEONE still may. This had me thinking. She specifically says your FAMILY is not coming back. The SOMEONE she is referring to is obviously Luke. This makes it seem Luke may in fact not be family. Still not sure though.

The pilot helmet she put on has Aurebesh on it that translates to Ræh (Ray, Rey). Looked it up and wookieepedia says it belonged to a rebellion pilot named Dosmit Ræh. So I don't think there's any significance other than a cool coincidence.

I was under the impression that Rey's quick ascent in the force was due to prior training she may not remember for one reason or another. But, Kylo specifically says to Snoke she's untrained but very strong in the force. If he knows who she is, which some parts make it seem he does, why would he think she's untrained? Still very unclear on her background as far as the force goes.

Snoke's first seen has music eerily similar to the music playing in ROTS when Palps is telling the Plageius story to Anakin. Hmmmm...

Anyway, I highly enjoyed the film. Even more so the second time around. I honestly rank it third behind ESB and ANH. The fact that it has me talking, thinking, and wanting more is a very good thing. Sure it has flaws, but objectively speaking, and what a lot of fans tend to ignore, the OT had a butt load as well. We tend to turn a cheek to those because we love the films so much. I am willing to do the same here.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: KI-ADI-MUNDI on December 24, 2015, 08:48:46 AM
I heard Disney Infinity gave up Ray's identity... Game over...
 
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Bruce Wayne on December 24, 2015, 08:58:18 AM
I heard Disney Infinity gave up Ray's identity... Game over...

If you're talking about when Kylo Ren fights Rey in the game and he says "Face me" and then what sounds like "cousin," it's actually confirmed that he says "curses," not "cousin."  When Kylo gets hit in the game, he says "curses," so he was saying "face me," got hit, and said "curses."  One of the guys that "broke" that story confirmed it yesterday. 

So we still don't know for sure who she really is.  :grin:
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: EXAR KUN on December 24, 2015, 09:38:28 AM


   Saw it again last night and I'm seeing it again next week. :grin:

I will watch for the fourth time on Saturday! Can't wait. Really love this movie. Not because it is an absolutely tremendous movie, but because it is Star Wars.

I think what is starting to happen with me is... I'm appreciating the prequels more now that these new movies are coming out. Just can't get enough sabers... methinks hmmm....lolololo (yoda laugh)
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Obi_1 on December 30, 2015, 10:57:51 AM
Before I write a full recension of my SW VII. experience, just one question which occured to me: I find it kind of strange that so far it occured to no one on this lightsaber forum how come the Graxflex appeared again. As far as I can recall, this relic was lost together with Luke's left (right?) hand just moments before Vader told him he was his father. For all we know it disappeared in the furnace of a gas planet, probably destroyed by the pressure in such an environment. It's just not straightforward...
(not to mention that it appearently got some coaching from certain magic wands from the Harry Potter story line and now seems to apply a similar strategy to find a new master... and from the looks of it it had been in the posession of a certain Cpt. Sparrow on the its many adventures who brought it to the pirate's den Solo brought Rey, in a Fitting wooden pirate treausure chest, totally unfitting the SW universe)
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Darth Chasm on December 30, 2015, 11:32:11 AM
The hero prop display stated that it was scavenged from the depths of Bespin. In the movie Maz says how she got it "is a story for another time." A lot of the new EU material has moments that speak of scavenging, relic hunting and so on.

I'm sure in one medium or another we will get more of the story.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: WEDGE ANTILLES on December 30, 2015, 11:48:22 AM
the wooden pirate chest is a parallel to the wooden pirate chest that Obi-wan had in his hut on tattooine.  when he first gives the saber to Luke in ANH, he pulls it from a suspisciously similar wooden chest.


(trivia:   the exact wooden chest from ANH was re-used in Superman:The Movie (1978), when Lex Luthor pulls the kryptonite from Obi-wan's box).
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Obi_1 on December 30, 2015, 02:41:36 PM
@WEDGE, Darth Chasm: thanks for the cackground info!

Now my assessment of SW7: I give the film 8/10. I liked it, it is a solid sci-fi and more than worth to see it. While it did not known me down from the chair like ANH (with serious side effects like addiction to SW for more than 30 years now), it's by far the best of its genre I've seen in the last couple of years.

What I liked a lot:
- the technique! Finally they brought back the good old method of working with models and real actors instead of trying to solve everything with special effects. It's so much more enjoyable I simply cannot describe. I must admit I'm one of those funny creatures who dare like EP2 and EP3, but I still have a dislike for their overuse of computer animation. In SW7 they broke with this bad Habit of contemporary film making and lol! and behold, I can manage to look at the movie screen and actually see what is happening (instead of seeing only a blur).
- at last a real lightsaber combat. Actually after seeing the movie I told my brother that neither Kylo Ren, nor Rey or Finn were proficient in lightsaber combat, they looked pretty amateur compared to the Jedi/Sith in the prequels. But then - because he is a member of Europe's largest medieval swordfighting association - he told me that what Ben, Rey and Finn did was real swordfight and not just acrobatics with lightsabers the likes we saw in the Prequels. Thinking about it I had to concede to his point and it got me replay the whole scene in my mind again: I realised that finally we had the best ligthsaber figths since Luke defeated Darth Vader. With powerful swings and hard clahes (the prequels had mostly quick parries). For me the crowning point was Rey, because she applied stabs as well, something so far we had seen only from Palpatine. That means she already starts to develop an unique combat style. I already love this character!
- staying with Rey: she is the most exciting character for me in the whole story. Remember the scenes Kylo Ren interrogates her? Do you remember any scene in any of the other films a (aspiring) Jedi actually intimidates a Sith? She did it (two times), her eyes and expression radiated being firmly rooted in the Ligth Side of the Force. She did the same to Ren during their lightsaber fight when their saber locked up: again a presence so stable and firm that she blasted away Ren psyhically even before physically injuring him. A draw? NO! Clealy she is becoming a more powerful force wielder than Kylo Ren ever could.
- I liked Kylo Ren, with all his torments between Light and Darkness. But I personally think that latest the end of SW8 will see him on the Light Side. He is clearly not a Sith no matter how hard he tries. He is lured by power but his attempts at being evil are all forced instead of coming from a fuse with the Dark Side. Darth Vader was a Sith, his grandson plays to be one. And yes, he is less intimidating without the helmet, but xxx, we all knew that there is a young man underneath.
- enjoyable starfighter battle, not seen since ROTJ (and I mean not seen in ANY of the movies produces ever since).
- finally the stormtroppers got redeemed. In the OT it was SAID that they are the elite troops of the Empire, but they were ACTED like Clowns wielding weapons. They certainly were more menancing in the current movie. While they could still be defeated too easily for my taste, they got back a bit of dignity. Also the new armour is not that bad. Bad is that I got an ANH stormtropper armour for Xmas, I hope it will not be outdated by the time I shape it up for 501st acceptance...
- I liked Finn. I also liked how Disney kept us in darkness so long about who is going to be in whom the Force awakens. Based on the trailers I expected Finn. Nevertheless he exceled in his role. A bit sad that he appearently did not queue up when good attributes were distributed, I mean he is an average stormtrooper while Rey is the force sensitive, the superb pilot and the pretty girl. Unbalanced.


What I did not like (or understand):
- the story was a clone of ANH. Was not necessary at all. The opening scene set the stage for a new tale and it is a pity that they left that course and rowed back to safe Waters copying a well established Story. The new Death Planet was with all its might not a fraction as frightening as the Death Star. Why? Because on the Death Star we had a Grand Moff Tarkin and a Darth Vader, equal partners in the service of the Emperor, both of them several magnitudes more cunning, coldly calculating and utterly concvinced of their Agenda than the two Junior Managers Hux and Kylo. Moreover the Death Star destroyed a planet we knew to whom it belonged to, the emotional link was established even before the act. The horrors of the destruction on such scale dawned on us in ANH, but in SW8 the new Death Whatever blew up a star system not even worth to mention. So what? But what I certainly liked was Snoke's respsonse to Hux's distress over loosing the shield of the super weapon. Obviously for him this "technological nightmare" was less important than capturing a powerful force user like Rey. That speaks on his behalf (although I hate that this embarassing figure is the main evil...I sincerely hope it will change).
- for me as a German the hints to the Third Reich were just too obvious. In the OT it was also clear to everyone where the inspiration for the Empire (and most notably the imperial uniforms) came from, so that total lack of subtlety socked me. Heck, the stormtroopers even raised their hand in salute in a most suspicious way...
- the SW universe shrinked. I know that a lot of fans did not like the increase in how the Galaxy was presented in the Prequel movies, but one might get the wrong notion that that Galaxy far, far away was stripped down to 3 or 4 planets, with a handful of inhabitants and interstellar space in between. Not to mention that those living in this partucular Galaxy either ride spaceships (mostly badly mainained though) or live in Stone Age villages.  Mud huts and pirate dens with wooden chests, come on JJ!
- I like other movies creating parallels to SW. I do not like it the other way around. Snoke is really like a cross-breed of Gollum and Lord Voldemort (I swear I red the thread only after having come to the same conclusion). The idea of a sun draining super weapon I expect from a Star Trek movie more than from SW. The planets resemble either a Mad Max-like post-apocalypse word or a pirate den from the Pirates of the Caribbean.


Han Solo's Death: I was 6 years old when I saw ANH. I'm 40 now, and if someone asks me who is my favorite movie character and actor, my answer is: Han Solo and Harrison Ford (latter convinced me in many other movies, but the reason is still Solo). Still I could not shed any tears over the loss. He did the rigth thing. I have two sons and I would have done the same in his stead. It pains him no end that his son turned to the Dark Side and understandably he could not believe his son is so wicked (I'm convinced in fact that he is not). He as a father loves Ben far more than he ever loved anyone or anything else (yes, including Leia, the Falcon or Chewie) and this love is unconditional. He is in ruins and can not come to Terms with the loss of his son to the Dark Side, let's face it, he became a mediocre smuggler, not even a shadow of his former self. A portion of his thoughts are always with his son and his only redemption is if he can redeem his son. He tries. He dies trying.
Only bad Thing is that the actor of Kylo Ren somehow ruined that scene. Well, SW was never known for good actors (with the only exception of Alec Guiness and Harrison Ford). From his performance it was not clear to me if he mocks his father or really sways between his love for his father and the self-sowrn commitment to his master. This is the reason the death of my favorite movie hero was spoiled for me.

Luke and Rey: I also think that Rey is Luke's daugther. I also think that the same old man who has been slayed by Kylo Ren for not giving him the map to Luke was Rey's appointed protector like Obi-Wan looked over Luke back on Tatooine.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: DarthYoda on January 01, 2016, 02:29:32 PM
Online DarthYoda
 
Re: [SPOILERS] What gave you goosebumps/shivers in The Force Awakens
« Reply #36 on: Today at 03:17:26 PM »
QUOTE
MODIFY
Background: mega huge Star Wars fan. Sorry I haven't been on this board much lately. First hearing Disney acquiring Star Wars = heart broken. Then hear they are making a new one = will see what they can do. Heard original cast coming back = super hyped. Saw trailer = This looks very promising.

Now, went to see this a couple days after release. Was super hyped and was ready to see what they did. During film, felt good, this is great, they leave plant and meet Han. I face palm. What the heck? He returned being a smuggler? His character built him to be better than this in the previous movies!

Ok, everything's back to ok status and the falcon is flying free. Han starts talking about the force. Face palms again. What? Where the bleep is Luke at? A Jedi should be saying this info. It's just out of place.

Get to Liea. Face palm again. You telling me they haven't gotten married or even stayed together all this time? No wander Ren is a whinny tard! Then see R2. In standby mode? Face palms, no r2 action? Disappointed, rather would have seen 3po like that. Ok deep breaths.

Lightsaber, ok ok wait up. You telling me, someone found the saber that was cut off in a sky planet? Ok I want to know how.....never explained.

Getting perturbed.

More awesome flight of falcon to get to that star killer. Impressive. Gets plasma from sun. Ok interesting. All heck breaks loose awesome nice x-wing stunts. Han never asked to use his bow before? All these years? What? How it get that powerful? Ok that's a nice trooper weapon! They still can't aim. Poor Han, you knew he would do that, sigh. Totally predictable.

Finally an actual fight with sabers. Ren's looks like crap and can tell he didn't do a great job constructing it. It's not tuned right. Luke's turns on. Well, Now that is a well constructed saber! You can see the power. Waiting to see Ren's saber fail or explode in battle..... Sigh didn't happen. Still a junk saber in my opinion.

Ok they get away, explosion of star killer. Expecting either a super nova or a black hole (it had a sun in it!) nope a perfect unharmed star appears! WHAT!!!!???? You gotta be kidding me! I'm done, I had enough, let's get through this.

Ok R2 comes alive, final puzzle, really? They couldn't just go to the end a long time ago? Only piece missing was the middle! Wow ok, get on your ship and go fallow that line.

Finally see Luke, she runs up, holds saber out, he looks at the saber, pans to saber, looks at saber, pans on saber, what? What? Don't leave me hangin, not like this, don't you end like this, omg you did! They could have totally had Luke force take it and turn it on and smile. Dang you Abrams, you had so much wealth of info, had Lucas writings for all new movies, and this is the best you did? Where's the deep story? Where's the epic feel of Star Wars? The new generations didn't need a recap of 4, they have 4 to watch, it was supposed to be a continuation! I really felt like Obi-Wan did when Anakin turned. You where supposed to bring balance, not leave it in darkness!!! Which reminds me, the rebel alliance is still going on? After the overthrow people are still wanting with control???? What the heck!? Ok ok, I'm calm. I give it 5/10 for sheer disregard that it was supposed to be a continuation and the over sites of many things, especially Ren trying to talk to Vader and wanting his guidance. Really? Luke never told him he changed to the light before death? He finished what he started a long time ago, be your own dang person!

Ok I'm done. Don't take my views personal. Im just emotional about what I saw. Just my opinions. Everyone has them.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Greenie on January 02, 2016, 12:55:27 PM
You can't tell 30+ years of back story in a 2 hour movie that has its own story to tell. Disney are rebuilding the Star Wars universe across all possible medias, answers will come in one form or another.
C'mon people, are you forgetting the steaming pile of prequels GL left on your doorstep. So many rehashed lines and moments,wooden acting, awful dialogue, cameos by everyone from LFL not to mention the ubiquitous Sam Jackson, jedi councils, dancing frogs, clone armies and continuity errors from the start to the bitter, bitter end. Lucas may as well have appeared on screen winking and pointing! :huh: ('every stanza rhymes with the last') but this time i used spectacle instead of story and it bears little resemblance to Star Wars.  :mad: No matter how disappointed you are with TFA it can never compare to the disappointment of the prequels, felt by genuine Star Wars fans (original class of '77) :cry:
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: djobitwan7 on January 02, 2016, 07:49:32 PM
I'll throw in my 2 cents as well here. To me, it was basically a New Hope kind of reboot. I mean, none of these groups learned from earlier mistakes: 2 Death stars, desert planets, still German like regimes. I don't think JJ had much in the way of originality. I'm not blaming him, but I don't know if he just directed what was already written in the screenplay or if he pitched in his 2 cents as well. Onto my next thoughts.

I didn't have much of a problem with the ending lightsaber duel(s). Kylo-Ren was seriously injured from Chewie's bow. Staggering damage there and he shook it off and continued to fight regardless. That takes some serious strength and balls. Plus, even though Ray was not trained, she was holding her own since she was young. That goes for Finn as well. The new Stormtroopers were actually fighting and shooting a lot better than their earlier counter-parts. Special training since early abduction. Ray and Finn barely beat Kylo-Ren and lord help them when he's at full strength.

My problem with Kylo-Ren was how he was. He was a whiny little child, (much as Anakin was) trying to emulate his grandfather??? Did Han or Leia or maybe Uncle Luke tell him his grandfather was an evil Sith Lord? They kept saying there was too much Vader in him. I find this hilarious to believe. No self-respecting parent would tell a young son how evil a person was. How he was turned we have to find out and that's what I look forward to. As for his force abilities......well, lets just say he seemed pretty weak. He knew enough to be dangerous, but not enough to have focus, like a Jedi should/would have. I mean come on. Before his injury he lost to Ray mentally, before she knew she had any force abilities. Even Luke Skywalker needed some training in order to tackle Vader. There are no shortcuts that can convince me other-wise.

As for the other characters: BB-8, Finn, Ray, and even our new hotshot ace pilot Poe Dameron were good choices. I hope they show Wedge Antilles, for he would have been the Ace pilot of the rebellion (besides Luke of course). Leia should have had some Jedi training as well, but I guess that ship has sailed. I was entertained regardless and if they clean the next episode up, it may be better than this one, but oh how the money will be sweet for Disney. I miss Lucas cut scenes when going to the next line of thought in the movies. That was part of what made Star Wars feel like Star Wars.

Parallels that I noticed though: along with thoughts.
1. Death Star like planet -  3rd installment and bad guys did not learn their lesson at all from the bad old Empire. Plus, no scientist thought that draining the star should ever be considered a great idea for a weapon. What happens when you drain a star? Doesn't it implode or something drastic that would basically kill the entire system that star supports. We can't say Sun, since only our system actually named it the Sun, LOL.

2. Kylo-Ren and General Hux (Vader and Grand Moff Tarking) rivalry - It looked to me that the new characters really disliked one another, whilst Vader and Tarkin at least respected one another.

3. Children left on desert planets - Nuff said about this one.

4. The First order still looks like Germans - They just took over the Empire it seems.

5. Luke disappears like Obi-Wan and Yoda. We don't really know Luke's reason yet.

6. Supreme Leader Snoke is just another Emperor Palpatine -  I hope he's Darth Plageuis, but that's too much to hope for. There were other Siths out there and they were not part of the Rule of Two.

7. This isn't a parallel, but I'd like to know how on Earth did Luke's (Anakin's) lightsaber change. Heck, I'd like to know how it changed from A new hope to Empire Strikes Back. The original had just the grips, while Empire had rivets on the bottom. Not a big deal, but I thought only a Jedi could change a lightsaber and the keeper does not have force powers (as we know thus far).

Sorry for the long speech, but thought I would say these and be done with it once and for all.

Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Dark Navel on January 02, 2016, 09:02:11 PM
Agree with 1, 2 ,& 6.  We will see how the rest plays out.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: DARTH VADER on January 02, 2016, 09:58:37 PM
Actually, I think that some of you have missed the point of Ren...

We have never seen a pro to darksider before. Snoke is leading him down th garden path, so to speak...  He is purposefully pushing him into postions of leadership that he is not ready to handle...  And Ren freaks when he fails, every time...   You are right, he is a whiny teenager. But that is what he is supposed to be. This is the Anakin that we should have seen, in between TCW and RoTS... Agonizing over the decision to turn, but having worm tongue whispering in your ear that you are destined for greatness, failing every time, but having someone telling you that you can do better. It's a classic scenario of how to corupot someone into an abusive relationship.

Personally, I think that snoke might not even be a force sensitive...  He just read the codex and is prompting Ren along...
I loved the fact that the half trained Ren only made an untuned saber., and I suspect that we are either going to see a better saber next time, or his saber will fail in a fight.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: TrypWyr on January 02, 2016, 11:02:33 PM
Personally, I think that snoke might not even be a force sensitive...  He just read the codex and is prompting Ren along...
I loved the fact that the half trained Ren only made an untuned saber., and I suspect that we are either going to see a better saber next time, or his saber will fail in a fight.

I love these ideas.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Lazi-D on January 03, 2016, 02:39:28 AM
Just finished watching VII again.  Had a few thoughts on Rey, wanted to share.  I haven't read all the posts prior, so someone might have mentioned this already.
Just feels like Rey is Kylo's sister watching it this time around...

1.  Star Wars is always about fighting the one you love
2.  A final duel between cousins doesn't seem to fill the emotional drama bit
3.  Since there are so many parallels between first trilogy and this, I kept thinking of Vader saying "sister...", need that hidden blood relation

Of course not perfect, since Leia seems more or less clueless when seeing her...

Sigh, need episode VIII...
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Obi_1 on January 03, 2016, 10:04:50 AM
You can't tell 30+ years of back story in a 2 hour movie that has its own story to tell. Disney are rebuilding the Star Wars universe across all possible medias, answers will come in one form or another.
C'mon people, are you forgetting the steaming pile of prequels GL left on your doorstep. So many rehashed lines and moments,wooden acting, awful dialogue, cameos by everyone from LFL not to mention the ubiquitous Sam Jackson, jedi councils, dancing frogs, clone armies and continuity errors from the start to the bitter, bitter end. Lucas may as well have appeared on screen winking and pointing! :huh: ('every stanza rhymes with the last') but this time i used spectacle instead of story and it bears little resemblance to Star Wars.  :mad: No matter how disappointed you are with TFA it can never compare to the disappointment of the prequels, felt by genuine Star Wars fans (original class of '77) :cry:

I consider myself original class (ok, '76), and please don't hang me, I liked the prequels. All right, EP1 was my biggest movie disappointment, but EP2 and EP3 I quite liked and I loved the Clone Wars animated series (even better than the prequels must say). While the prequels were not the biggest hits, face it: we are all on this forum exactly because of them! What I mean: lightsabers were the essence of the prequels as opposed to the OT where blasters took the same role. As a kid I wanted to be Han Solo and not Luke Skywalker and most of my friends at school felt the same way. It was the prequels and the Clone Wars which brought most of us to this hobby (and of course the technological advance  :grin:). While I do not want to rant endlessly about it, the prequels gave us many 1st class scenes; best starfighter battle since ROTJ was Obi-Wan vs. Jango Fett, and their combat on Camino is also one of the best fights in all 6 (7) episodes.

As to TFA, I see most of it like you guys, still I liked the film. Only thing is: I would have completely left out that monster of a death star. It was totally out of place.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: TrypWyr on January 03, 2016, 03:42:15 PM
http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-force-awakens-questions/2/ (http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-force-awakens-questions/2/)

Interesting article, nothing that hasn't been discussed here already with one exception (I think): What if Rey isn't actually a Skywalker but a Kenobi? Here an interesting tidbit:

Quote
There is one more possibility: She could be Obi-wan Kenobi’s granddaughter. I had heard early on that the change from Michael Arndt’s script to the one J.J. Abrams was working on with Lawrence Kasdan was that it changed the story from being just about the Skywalkers to being a story about the Kenobis vs. the Skywalkers. Again, that was just a rumor and a lot of what we heard early on was wrong or evolved into something else. But it is possible.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: anakin2000 on January 03, 2016, 04:25:10 PM
You can't tell 30+ years of back story in a 2 hour movie that has its own story to tell. Disney are rebuilding the Star Wars universe across all possible medias, answers will come in one form or another.
C'mon people, are you forgetting the steaming pile of prequels GL left on your doorstep. So many rehashed lines and moments,wooden acting, awful dialogue, cameos by everyone from LFL not to mention the ubiquitous Sam Jackson, jedi councils, dancing frogs, clone armies and continuity errors from the start to the bitter, bitter end. Lucas may as well have appeared on screen winking and pointing! :huh: ('every stanza rhymes with the last') but this time i used spectacle instead of story and it bears little resemblance to Star Wars.  :mad: No matter how disappointed you are with TFA it can never compare to the disappointment of the prequels, felt by genuine Star Wars fans (original class of '77) :cry:

I consider myself original class (ok, '76), and please don't hang me, I liked the prequels. All right, EP1 was my biggest movie disappointment, but EP2 and EP3 I quite liked and I loved the Clone Wars animated series (even better than the prequels must say). While the prequels were not the biggest hits, face it: we are all on this forum exactly because of them! What I mean: lightsabers were the essence of the prequels as opposed to the OT where blasters took the same role. As a kid I wanted to be Han Solo and not Luke Skywalker and most of my friends at school felt the same way. It was the prequels and the Clone Wars which brought most of us to this hobby (and of course the technological advance  :grin:). While I do not want to rant endlessly about it, the prequels gave us many 1st class scenes; best starfighter battle since ROTJ was Obi-Wan vs. Jango Fett, and their combat on Camino is also one of the best fights in all 6 (7) episodes.

As to TFA, I see most of it like you guys, still I liked the film. Only thing is: I would have completely left out that monster of a death star. It was totally out of place.

Agreed Episode 1 is really weak but i thought 2 was OK and 3 was awesome. Certainly not up to par with with OT but still quality films. 
Don't wanna merge topics, back to TFA.......
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: anakin2000 on January 03, 2016, 04:29:09 PM
Another thing I will say- i freakin loved this movie. Seen it 5 times already and I would give it a 9.5 out of 10. But I will agree with some others, for some reason when I was sitting in the theater opening night i wasn't thinkin< "holy xxx this is a new star wars im watching a new star wars movie" I mean it was amazing but for some reason the first time it didn't really feel like a star wars movie, I think both OT and the prequels established some what of an outline for what movies should be like. I just didn't get the feel the first time. of course i did the other four times though

almost overtakes ROTS as my favorite!
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: darth hondo on January 03, 2016, 05:25:34 PM
Actually, I think that some of you have missed the point of Ren...

We have never seen a pro to darksider before. Snoke is leading him down th garden path, so to speak...  He is purposefully pushing him into postions of leadership that he is not ready to handle...  And Ren freaks when he fails, every time...   You are right, he is a whiny teenager. But that is what he is supposed to be. This is the Anakin that we should have seen, in between TCW and RoTS... Agonizing over the decision to turn, but having worm tongue whispering in your ear that you are destined for greatness, failing every time, but having someone telling you that you can do better. It's a classic scenario of how to corupot someone into an abusive relationship.


These are very good and relevant points
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: WEDGE ANTILLES on January 03, 2016, 05:58:50 PM
the first time I watch a movie (any movie) I am always concerned with the story beats.  once I already know what's gonna happen, then I can go back and watch again for things like cinematography and 'cool factor'. 

to be honest, I wasn't all that impressed with TFA on my first viewing.  for example: Han's death seemed cold and forced -- I know WHY it was done (character development on the part of Kylo, to MAKE him a "true villain" by doing something that the audience would NEVER forgive him for) but it seemed wrong to sacrifice a beloved character simply to 'make' a villain out of thin air. 

I could go on.  suffice to say, the story didn't impress much.

if you've ever seen JJ's "LOST" then you know what its like to 'tune in' every week, expecting "answers" -- only to end with more questions.  that's what it felt like: not so much a 'movie' unto itself.. but more like the "pilot" to a new movie "serial".  like JJ's "LOST" -- with MANY loose threads (for their OWN sake), left hanging for OTHER authors to flesh out later.   this is Disney trying to 'spin a yarn' that would go on forever.

I had expected "answers", after 30 years : re: "what have my heroes been doing all these years" -- instead I felt like JJ was raising "questions" for their OWN sake.

which is fine.  LOST was very popular.  I enjoyed it, as much as anyone.   I just didn't really expect this, from a Star Wars movie.  GL's movies feel more complete, unto themselves.


 


having said that,  the second viewing was FAR more enjoyable.  now I was able to pay attention to how the trench run was shot (for example).  I appreciated the composition of the film, and the use of comedy to break up the action (for example).   you pay attention to different aspects of the film, when you ALREADY know the story. 

(( consider the opening shot(s) --- in 1977,  the rebel blockade runner appears mid-screen and zooms away, to become a small dot on the screen -- it gets 'smaller' in the frame, until it's almost invisible;  the imperial star destroyer STARTS as a small dot on the screen (at the top of the frame) and then spreads across the entire screen like a plague -- in ONE SHOT were are told: the rebel alliance is small (and getting smaller); the Empire is large, and spreading across the galaxy, until it fills the entire [screen].  we are shown "who" the underdog is; "who" the oppressor is; and we feel the unstoppable presence of the Empire as it spreads across the frame with no end in sight ---  ALL THIS FROM ONE SHOT!! --- it's visual poetry))

((in 2015, the first order star destroyer spreads out in similar fashion, but it is shown ONLY in silhouette -- it spreads like a SHADOW, conveying a sense of "the dark side", as it fills the entire frame -- this is a movie about "the force", afterall -- the Dark Side is spreading across the galaxy))

^^ this is the kind of stuff I appreciate in TFA.

 

in the end, I'm still on the fence about the story.   I wasn't all that impressed with Kasdan's effort.  just as GL has a "1950's" sensibility about storytelling -- you can REALLY tell, Kasdan hasn't had a 'hit' since the Big Chill -- he's got a VERY "1980's" sensibility about movie-making.  and this feels kind of stale.

the world has changed.  Marvel has raised the bar.   I don't think they should treat this like a typical 1980's "trilogy" where they just make it up as they go along. (robocop?  aliens? terminator? I'm talking to YOU).

((Kasdan was asked "have you mapped out the next chapters?" and he said "no, not really" -- he has no idea how this trilogy will end)) :( ((I find that worrisome)).

((but the movie was a lot of fun to watch and the visuals (Xwings) were really well done.   so I dunno.   I guess it depends what you're watching for)).





if you're looking for "flash-boom-POW!" this movie delivers, in spades.    if you're looking for a movie that stands on its own legs (story wise), you'd be better off waiting until the trilogy is done and then "Binge Watch" it, like JJ's "LOST"  -- this will be FAR less frustrating, in the long run :P

3.5/5

-==-

1.ESB
2.ANH
3.TPM
4.ROTS
5.TFA
6.AOTC
7.ROTJ

--> it was BETTER than AOTC.
--> it was the BEST SW movie,  since 2005.

(trying to be nice here) :P hehe
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: anakin2000 on January 03, 2016, 08:48:32 PM

1.ESB
2.ANH
3.TPM
4.ROTS
5.TFA
6.AOTC
7.ROTJ

You put return of the jedi last?! :huh:
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Obi_1 on January 04, 2016, 01:04:44 AM
I wholeheartedly agree to WEDGE, TFA was the best sci-fi since 2005. And this is true even considering that sci-fi as a genre has been crossly neglected in the past decades apart from SW. I guess because no one though it worth the effort to compete...

Although I only saw the film so far once, I'm already looking forward to seeing it again (and again...).

One thought on Luke's disappearance: suppose you get children of your sister to watch over them. Then something happens to them. You're never going to forgive yourself and never want to face them again. Natural human response. This is the central drama in TFA and the one which did not only disrupt the Solo/Skywalker family but ultimately plunged the Galaxy into chaos, enabling First Order to grow and expand its influence.

Still it's unclear why Rey was left on Jakkuu, but maybe there is no connection here.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: anakin2000 on January 04, 2016, 06:19:52 PM
Isn't it weird though that Ren seemed a little more on edge than usual after they escaped jakku?

"The two were accompanied by a girl"

"WHAT GIRL?!"

Its just a one liner but it almost feels like he knew something, like "i really hope its not....." I'm not a big advocate of the ren had something to do with rey's past theory but this one is stumping me...
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Greenie on January 27, 2016, 02:16:54 PM

1.ESB
2.ANH
3.TPM
4.ROTS
5.TFA
6.AOTC
7.ROTJ

You put return of the jedi last?! :huh:

 You put TPM third?  :huh:

V. IV. VI. VII. III.................................II. I.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on January 27, 2016, 04:23:47 PM
I agree with Wedge's order...TPM is a fantastic movie that is underappreciated, perhaps because some people watched trailers and set unrealistic expectations that no film could fulfill [I avoided all trailers and liked it wayyyy more than my friends who watched them]. More than any movie before it in the OT it 'made sense' of the Saga before it by setting the foundations of a reasonable backstory for the existence of the Jedi and the Republic as well as the precursor motives for the rise of the Sith and the Empire. Yes we can all hate Jar Jar Binks as horrible racism and midichlorians [exo-mitochondria?] do indeed take the 'mystery' out of the Force making it something SCIENCE-fictional instead of stupid FANTASY. But since I like Sci-Fi [not 'syfy' for dummies] and hate 'magic' - which BECAUSE of TPM the force ISNT - I didn't mind midichlorians at all and it actually made me like SW more than ST that I had preferred before TPM which 'won me over' to the SW side of the ubergeek divide lol.

Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Obi_1 on January 31, 2016, 01:26:01 PM
I still cannot bring myself to watch TPM again, the memory of seeing it the first time is still so vivid. Don't get me wrong, I did not have high expectations. I was - like many of us - a dormant SW fan, curious what this new tale from George Lucas was going to tell me. But this infantile movie caught me unprepared. I heard afterwards, that GL made TMP for his adopted children, so it was intentionally a child's movie, problem was, people crowding to the cinemas had also been small kids as they had seen AHN and they did not need a story appealing to a 3-years old to be won over. 22 years later, as grown-ups, they needed it even less. BTW, I had my kids (4 and 7) watch OT, they liked it. Afterwards I made them sit down to TPM, just for sake of right order. I did not tell them anything. After watching it for 1h, they got up and left it. I could not persuade them to watch AOTC or ROTS either, which is a pity. Slowly they are recovering, I might be able to show them TFA after all.
As to the midi-whatsnots, I suspect they had more to do with a similar story from 2016 years ago as with sci-fi. I guess GL wanted to make it grand and what is the harm in imitating the possibly only story which still has more "fans" as SW. Well, it did not work out well in my opinion and I guess GL came to the same conclusion, he used the term very cautiously after TPM, with a high degree of embarrassment.
As for myself, TPM is not "canon". It is a bad mistake, best to get over with.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: anakin2000 on January 31, 2016, 02:57:14 PM
I still cannot bring myself to watch TMP again, the memory of seeing it the first time is still so vivid. Don't get me wrong, I did not have high expectations. I was - like many of us - a dormant SW fan, curious what this new tale from George Lucas was going to tell me. But this infantile movie caught me unprepared. I heard afterwards, that GL made TMP for his adopted children, so it was intentionally a child's movie, problem was, people crowding to the cinemas had also been small kids as they had seen AHN and they did not need a story appealing to a 3-years old to be won over. 22 years later, as grown-ups, they needed it even less. BTW, I had my kids (4 and 7) watch OT, they liked it. Afterwards I made them sit down to TMP, just for sake of right order. I did not tell them anything. After watching it for 1h, they got up and left it. I could not persuade them to watch AOTC or ROTS either, which is a pity. Slowly they are recovering, I might be able to show them TFA after all.
As to the midi-whatsnots, I suspect they had more to do with a similar story from 2016 years ago as with sci-fi. I guess GL wanted to make it grand and what is the harm in imitating the possibly only story which still has more "fans" as SW. Well, it did not work out well in my opinion and I guess GL came to the same conclusion, he used the term very cautiously after TMP, with a high degree of embarrassment.
As for myself, TMP is not "canon". It is a bad mistake, best to get over with.

Do you mean TPM??? LOL it just bothered me that whole time reading it  :laugh:
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Obi_1 on February 01, 2016, 07:35:56 AM
Yo, I hate it so much I even misspell it. Now it's fixed. It could have been the autocorrect as well. It plays havoc on my text on a regular basis and seems to have fun doing that.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: newbanZo on February 25, 2016, 02:42:32 PM
There's a whole lot I could say about this movie, mostly good, but I think it's important for people to be conscious of their biases when judging this film. People Re upset about unanswered questions and freaking out that things are left hanging. Have you seen A New Hope? Darth Vader has 2 maybe 3 quick expository lines of back story and really doesn't do much the whole movie. Grand Moff Tarkin is the real villains of the story. Vader is just his lackey and enforcer left over from another time. Princess Leia and other imperial officers don't really respect or fear him until he chokes them. He doesn't really become the super powerfull, not to be trifled with, right hand of the emperor that we see him as today until ESB and ROTJ where there was more time to get into his back story and really flesh him out as a character.

TFA is about Rey like ANH is about Luke. Now that we have been introduced to our main character and have learned more about her, more time in the story can be spent with other characters and questions can be answered. Theyre going into this knowing that they're making a trilogy. It's definitely planed out.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Psab Keel on February 29, 2016, 08:22:02 PM
I never fully understood the whole Star Trek vs. Star Wars debate.  Science Fiction and Science Fantasy each have their strengths.  Star Wars is clearly the latter and obviously works better as Science Fantasy.  It has more to do with King Arthur than it does with Arthur C. Clark.

With regards to The Phantom Menace, it's not a bad film because of Jar Jar Binks, or midichlorians.  While those two elements certainly made the film worse, it was a bad movie because of it's script.  Pure and simple.  It lacked a key element to make a successful story.  A central protagonist who represents a specific theme and who grows as a character throughout the arc of the story.  It's writing 101. 

In the prequels we had Anakin who we know so little about and whose every decision was self serving from the beginning.  You have to like a character to empathize with them and Anakin always came across as a bad seed from the start of Episode II.  That's not a fall from grace.  It's more like he deserved to be burned to a crisp for being so selfish and murderous. 

In the OT we had Luke Skywalker who came from nothing and wrestled his dark family history only to surpasss his mentors by learning from their mistakes and ultimately save his father.  That is the kind of hero I can get behind.  Someone who exudes nobility with his actions.  If Luke were to fall from the light, it would be tragic.

Is The Force Awakens perfect?  No.  But at least it has a central protagonist in Rey who is on a journey of self discovery and learning that she is far more capable than she ever imagined.  She is strong and tries to do what is right by being loyal to the people she cares about and fighting for a cause she believes in which is in direct opposition to tyranny.  Sounds pretty noble to me. 

Even the best Star Wars films are flawed but when they work it's because we like the characters.  The Force Awakens worked for me on that level.  I like this new generation of heroes and I look forward to seeing where the story takes them.



Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: KingOfDathomir on March 27, 2016, 03:53:22 PM
I think someone got their ordering wrong... I'll take TPM, the whiney brat, and the space duck-frog-rabbit over AOTC and its cheesy unrealistic love story crap any day of the week. AOTC was the weakest link IMHO with blah dialoge acting and Hayden's creepy staring... Guess my list would go:

1: ESB
2: TFA
3: ROTS
4: ROTJ
5: ANH
6: TPM
7: AOTC

Yes, TFA IMO is better than ROTJ and ANH, though ESB is still the superior film (maybe of all time, again, IMO). ROTS, cuz like my top 2, its one of the darker chapters, where the future is “uncertain”. The ewoks shoulda stayed in the cartoons and the two live action spin-offs, cuz they killed ROTJ for me, all due respect to the furry little cannibal psychos. ANH... just meh, cuz I was already spoiled on ESB and just expected more I guess. The last two I already explained.

I liked not getting many of the more burning questions about TFA and the backstory leading into it answered yet, cuz the mystery compells me to wait and see Episode VIII in 2017. Hopefully Phasma will play a bigger role. Maybe Hux forces her to keep her not-so-shiny-now armor as a mark of shame, giving her incentive to be a potential BAMF! Super trooper Finn with a new cyber-spine. A new saber aaand look for Kylo Ren, and Snoke in the fleash.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Psab Keel on March 28, 2016, 09:58:42 PM
Phasma really is the new Boba Fett in the sense that fans made a huge deal of her character and she had about 30 seconds of screen time, and it was fairly unremarkable at that.  Lol.

My List from best to worst would be:

ANH
ESB
ROTJ
TFA
ROTS
TPM
AOTC

As much as I love Empire, it couldn't exist without the set up from A New Hope.  Episode 4 is nearly perfect in my book.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: djobitwan7 on May 07, 2016, 01:03:22 PM
Without TPM, We would not have Qui-Gon Jinn and Darth Maul. One of the best fight scenes ever in Star Wars battle.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: ken on May 27, 2016, 07:15:14 PM
ESB
TFA
ANH
ROTJ
ROTS
AOTC
TPM

lets he honest nothing can beat ESB but TFA came close also i wonder what the title name for VIII will be???

hmmm.... FOSB haha first order strikes back??? that would be funny  :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Greenie on May 29, 2016, 02:38:17 AM
Whatever they call it, it better be a four word title. Don't break the pattern.....  Three, four, four.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on May 29, 2016, 05:41:53 PM
Doh on me I never noticed the "three, four, four" thing until you mentioned it!

So by 'tradition' it ought to be a four word title for VIII and IX then...and something with a 'violent' word like strikes or attack for VIII eh....hmmmm...
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: anakin2000 on May 31, 2016, 01:28:33 PM
Whatever they call it, it better be a four word title. Don't break the pattern.....  Three, four, four.
I guess with that in mind episode 8 can't be called "The First Order Strikes Back"  :cheesy: :cheesy:
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Greenie on May 31, 2016, 03:05:08 PM
So is 'Attack of the first order' then.  :cheesy:
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: ken on May 31, 2016, 07:36:17 PM
I just saw it and I give it a 0/10. Me, my mother and my sister just got back from seeing it and we all agree that it was horrible. Getting out of the theater I only had 3 things to say about it.

1. I set my expectations VERY low and did not expect to get a good movie, my expectations proved accurate to reality.
2. This is the worst butchery of a series I love since M Night Shaymalan's "The Last Airbender".
3. I miss George Lucas BAD.

Sounds like you sat down in the wrong theatre and watched a different movie to the rest of us :laugh:

haha probably watched the martian and though it was starwars 
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on June 01, 2016, 03:55:40 PM
Depending on whether Luke trains Rey and they attack the First Order or the First Order tracks down and attacks them it could be "Assault OF The Jedi" or "Assault ON The Jedi"?
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: ken on June 10, 2016, 07:17:28 AM
Depending on whether Luke trains Rey and they attack the First Order or the First Order tracks down and attacks them it could be "Assault OF The Jedi" or "Assault ON The Jedi"?
i like it!!!!
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Jdubs on June 19, 2016, 07:52:34 PM
I liked it, but inthink it may be better for newer fans.  I feel bad saying it but it really recycled some of the same story line of the originals. Still dont feel i wasted money seing it tho
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Psab Keel on June 21, 2016, 08:02:04 PM
Still better than the last three.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Greenie on June 21, 2016, 11:44:07 PM
Still better than the last three.

Very true. GL set the bar low. ;)
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: KingOfDathomir on August 06, 2016, 01:20:19 AM
I just can't wait for the big Ep VIII reveal that Rey is a Palpatine and it blows everyones minds :lipsrsealed:

The context clues are all there:
-British accent (dumb i know, but in SW this denotes senatorial/imperial lineage)
-utilization of Juyo stabs similar to Palps in ROTS
-the disembodied voice saying "Kill him" in her head after defeating Ren, in the novelization (Palpatine's order to Anakin in regards to Dooku's fate in ROTS)
-lastly, the look in Luke's eyes when he sees her, showing not just reluctance to train her now, but a knowing look of failure and reluctance to train her in the past, likely out of fear.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: TheSaberCore on August 06, 2016, 06:28:44 AM
I just can't wait for the big Ep VIII reveal that Rey is a Palpatine and it blows everyones minds :lipsrsealed:
Nah, she's totally a new chosen one or Anakin reincarnated.

-Skilled mechanic and pilot without any real training? Check.
-Graflex calls to her and chooses her over Leia's son? Check.
Luke's reluctance to train her on fear she will become the new Vader? Check.
-The "kill him" in her head in the novel is the order Palpatine told Anakin? Check.
-Allows for a twist "I am your father" moment? Check.

I'm just worried they're going to keep Rey's identify a secret through VIII and we're going to have to wait two more years through all the theories and mysteries.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: anakin2000 on August 06, 2016, 01:36:21 PM
I just can't wait for the big Ep VIII reveal that Rey is a Palpatine and it blows everyones minds :lipsrsealed:
Nah, she's totally a new chosen one or Anakin reincarnated.

-Skilled mechanic and pilot without any real training? Check.
-Graflex calls to her and chooses her over Leia's son? Check.
Luke's reluctance to train her on fear she will become the new Vader? Check.
-The "kill him" in her head in the novel is the order Palpatine told Anakin? Check.
-Allows for a twist "I am your father" moment? Check.

I'm just worried they're going to keep Rey's identify a secret through VIII and we're going to have to wait two more years through all the theories and mysteries.
We're gonna find out this episode. Daisy Ridley said she already knows who they are, and I doubt they finished the script for IX yet so most likely in VIII
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Psab Keel on August 31, 2016, 01:06:52 PM
I certainly hope that she isn't Palpatine or Anakin reincarnated.  Those ideas just come across as cheap fan fiction to me.

I think it would almost be more interesting if she had no relation to the Skywalkers even.  She was literally a nobody and came from nothing.  I guess we'll just have to wait until episode 8 comes out.


Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: anakin2000 on August 31, 2016, 01:18:29 PM
I certainly hope that she isn't Palpatine or Anakin reincarnated.  Those ideas just come across as cheap fan fiction to me.

I think it would almost be more interesting if she had no relation to the Skywalkers even.  She was literally a nobody and came from nothing.  I guess we'll just have to wait until episode 8 comes out.

Yeah, as long as she is not a reincarnation I'll be fine. to be honest I hope its just totally random, after all this is its own trilogy with its own story, no need to re-hash certain elements of others
(not referring to OT characters of course)
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: bruno1067 on August 31, 2016, 01:46:51 PM
Yeah, I agree. But unfortunately so far everything is pointing to her being related to the Skywalkers...
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on September 07, 2016, 10:35:11 PM
The 'twist' on "I am your father" sounds just like the kind of thing that JJ Abrams would think of and WANT to do, though I hope LFL/Disney doesnt let it go that way.


They really should reveal whatever it is in Ep.VIII though - dragging it out 'til IX would be very annoying. I just wonder if Rey, Ren or whoever will kill Luke in VIII or in IX?
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Psab Keel on September 13, 2016, 07:43:03 AM
I hope they don't kill off Luke too.  I'm fine with the original cast being the supporting cast to the new characters, but it's not necessary to kill off all the originals.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: anakin2000 on September 18, 2016, 08:22:59 AM
I hope they don't kill off Luke too.  I'm fine with the original cast being the supporting cast to the new characters, but it's not necessary to kill off all the originals.

yeah, Han Solo's death for me was fine cause he wanted to be killed anyway, but I could never watch the OT again the same if they killed Luke.
Title: Re: The Force Awakens Discussion Thread.. Warning.... SPOILERS!!!!
Post by: Katarn KL on October 02, 2016, 07:59:32 AM
I hope they don't kill off Luke too.  I'm fine with the original cast being the supporting cast to the new characters, but it's not necessary to kill off all the originals.

yeah, Han Solo's death for me was fine cause he wanted to be killed anyway, but I could never watch the OT again the same if they killed Luke.

Seems to me that Luke will be around and kicking for a while, acting as a mentor to the new generation of jedi that will begin with Rey...but more like a master Yoda with occasional moments of badassery.