Running a Hyperblade with a 7.2V/3000mAh battery pack

[Matt Thorn]

Hi. I've ordered two V2 Hyperblade drivers and two blade strips (green and red) for use in two sabers I'm making for a client with deep pockets and who needs the brightest blades possible for use in a very large concert hall (the Budokan in Tokyo).

First I'd just like to say that Jim Shima and the others at Hyperdyne have been extremely helpful and extremely good with communication. Still, I'd like some objective advice from someone with experience using Hyperblades.

The sabers I'm making are to be used by two petit Japanese women, and have to be as light as possible. I decided to use 1.25" sinktubes for the hilts. Additionally, the sabers need to have a running time of at least 30 minutes, and preferably 40 or more. So I passed on Hyperdyne's 11V pack because 1) it won't fit in my hilt and 2) the battery life won't be sufficient. Instead, I'm using two UltraFire BRC 18650 3000mAh 3.7V Li-ions. Mark at Hyperdyne thought 11V would be better, but Jim thinks 7.2V should be fine, and with the batteries I'm using should last long enough for my client's needs.

My questions for any Hyperbade users out there are these:

1) Is there a really big difference between 7.2V and 11V?

2) Can I use my 7.2V/3000mAh setup at the brightest setting and still get 30 - 40 minutes out of it, or is there  more optimal setting for that target run time?

3) I didn't realize before I made the order (which is being processed now) that the Hyperblade automatically lowers the brightness level after two minutes to prevent overheating, and that in order to get it back up to maximum brightness, you have to turn it off for two minutes. Does that automatic function only kick in when you're using 11V at maximum brightness, or is that something I'm going to have to worry about even with my 7.2V setup? (I got an answer from the source. The step-down function only kicks in if you use the two three highest brightness settings with an 11V pack, so it's not an issue with 7.2V.)

4) The dueling will all be choreographed, and barring accidents there shouldn't be any major whacking going on. Do I have to worry about connections breaking? (BTW, Jim is "beefing up" the connections on the strips he's making for me.)

Any tips, advice, or warnings will be very welcome. Thanks in advance.

[SithlordFaust]

my only advice, and anybody correct me if Im wrong, Id use something to counterwieght the blades. they are heavier than MRs.
and MR used pretty heavy metal (throws the horned hand) for their hilts to counterweight. I think thats why they used 6xaa on a few models as well.

[Matt Thorn]

Thanks, SlithlordFaust. The folks at Hyperdyne are trimming the blade strips to 26" for me, and I'll be using a 3/4" polycarbonate tube instead of the standard tube Hyperdyne provides, so hopefully it won't be too top-heavy. But I will keep that in mind.

[xwingband]

1) There will be a noticeable brightness hit.  Hyperblades don't regulate power.  It takes what it can get from the batteries.

2) I can't specifically answer that as I have never worked with one and never will hands on.  I can say those trustfires are NOT 3000mAh.  You'll be lucky to get 2200mAh out of them at the draw the hyperblades will take.

3) Again I'm not sure but I believe that for the top brightness only.

4) No answer there but choreographed well it should work.

What is the amount of space you have for the batteries?  In a 1.25" tube you'd need a stick of 18650's... so I'm guessing a decent amount.  Basically I'd be most concerned about your battery solution.

[Matt Thorn]

Thanks, Xwingband. So the TrustFires can't be trusted, eh? I am planning to put to end-on-end (They won't fit side-by-side), so that's about 5.5". I would be THRILLED to get suggestions for an 11V pack that will fit in that space and also last 30 - 40 minutes.  ;D

[JANGO FETT]

How about using 9 NiMH AAA batteries wired in series.
10.8 V
http://www.all-battery.com/aaa1000mahtenergyhighcapacitynimhrechargeablebatteryflattop.aspx

[Matt Thorn]

How about using 9 NiMH AAA batteries wired in series.
10.8 V

You know, that just might work. A bundle of 7 AAAs will just fit into a 1.25" tube, and adding 2 (maybe even 3?) would be easy, and actually be more space efficient than the two big 18650s I've been planning to use. I just wonder how long they would last.

[QUI-GON JINN]

You might want to give Eandori's review topic at TCSS a read,  if you haven't already,  Matt:
http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?t=4961&

He mentions the current draw of the Hyperblades in there,  and that the batteries you decide to use should be at least able to deliver twice the amount of current draw than the blade pulls.  By that,  I do not meant the mAH rating,  but the amount of current the batteries will supply under load.  Make sure you read the datasheets on whatever batteries you decide to go with for this.

[Matt Thorn]

You might want to give Eandori's review topic at TCSS a read,  if you haven't already,  Matt:
http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?t=4961&

He mentions the current draw of the Hyperblades in there,  and that the batteries you decide to use should be at least able to deliver twice the amount of current draw than the blade pulls.  By that,  I do not meant the mAH rating,  but the amount of current the batteries will supply under load.  Make sure you read the datasheets on whatever batteries you decide to go with for this.

Thanks, Jay-Gon. Yes, I did check out the thread, but for the umpteenth time I failed to note the distinction between mAh and mA.  ::) I thought he was referring to mAh, and I was wondering on what planet they sell 4000mAh batteries.  :P Hyperdyne also suggested I ask Eandori about battery possibilities.

Naturally, I would like the ideal solution, but at this point I would settle for a working solution, since the performance is just three weeks away!  :-\

[Malaki-Skywalker]

Hmm... what you could do is go for a proto saber style set up. A small pouch with with 6 18650's in parallel so it would give you 11.1V 4800mAh obviously the downside being you have to have a cable going from the pouch to the saber but if its choreographed it shouldn't be to much of a problem. Hope this helps  ;D

[Matt Thorn]

Hmm... what you could do is go for a proto saber style set up. A small pouch with with 6 18650's in parallel so it would give you 11.1V 4800mAh obviously the downside being you have to have a cable going from the pouch to the saber but if its choreographed it shouldn't be to much of a problem. Hope this helps  ;D

I had thought about that, but the performers won't be holding their sabers the whole time, and they actually have to switch sabers at least once. It's actually supposed to look like the performer (a famous Japanese voice-actress/singer) is dueling with her "evil twin," so there will be a "double" (maybe two, come to think of it) and also some quick behind-the-curtain costume changes. Under those circumstances, wired sabers would be a major headache. (I even thought of fashioning some kind of magnetic quick-release power connector like the current Macs have.)

Oh, and all those details about the performance are supposed to be secret, so please don't mention them on any Japanese or anime-related sites.  ;D

[xwingband]

Honestly I think a Makatosai (sp?) would be better because if you are dead set on going full brightness and having 30 minutes of runtimes it's going to suck!

Assuming: 1.25" tube is a set in stone and you want to go as close as possible to 11V or so.

So you're options are:
-10.4V NiMH... of AAA's is going to be 20 minutes realistically. You can't fit AA's which would open up runtimes but their size and amount is prohibitive.
-11.2V of li-ion... 6 14650's might give you 30 minutes.  Anything larger is not going to fit.

[Matt Thorn]

Thanks, Xwingband. No, I'm not set on maximum brightness, but the 1.25" hilt is indeed set in stone. From everything I've heard a lower setting should be plenty bright and give me enough run-time. I'm just looking at all my options battery-wise while waiting for my Hyperblades to arrive (which Hyperdyne is shipping tomorrow). I had considered Makototsai, as well as a bunch of other options (I've got a 10-watt green LedEngin sitting here on my desk), and decided Hyperblades were the best solution for this project. A major factor was the absolute deadline for me to get my customer the sabers. And I am happy with my choice. I know there's bad blood out there, but as someone looking for the best way to meet his customer's needs, that was frankly a non-issue. I'm not here to shill for anyone, but I will say my experience with Hyperdyne has been great. Great support, quick answers to my questions, and an eagerness to help me find the best solution for my project. As for the price, like they say, you get what you pay for. (Besides, it's not my own money I'm spending.  ;D)

[Matt Thorn]

Just thought I should provide a follow-up to this. I did in fact end up using the 7.4V set-up with two UltraFire BRC 18650 3000mAh 3.7V Li-ions. The Hyperblade allows you to choose between a 7.2 (7.4) volt and 11 volt setting. With the 7.2 volt setting, you don't get the automatic dimming after two minutes continuous use that you get in the top three brightness settings in 11-volt mode. For my purposes, the brightest setting in 7.2-volt mode was plenty bright enough.

What blew me away, though, was the running time. Please note that I am not using sound, and, more importantly, that I am using shortened blades (55 LEDs rather 75) that the Hyperdyne folks customized for me. Even so, I was amazed to find that the green saber ran for 2 hours and 20 minutes continuously at full brightness.  :o Since I really only needed somewhere between 40 minutes and one hour, I didn't bother to do a similar test with the red saber. My customer is very happy with the results. After the concert, I will post photos and perhaps some videos of the sabers. There are plans to make a DVD of the performance, but it won't be available for another six months or so. I just wish I could go to Tokyo and see it live myself, but the round-trip bullet train ticket from Kyoto alone would eat up all the profit I made from this commission.  :P

Anyway, thanks to all for the valuable input.

[Matt Thorn]

Since Yui Horie's two-day performance at the Budokan is over, I can now make public photos I took of the two sabers before sending them off. The performances were a huge success, and plenty of Japanese fans commented on their personal blogs about the lightsabers. (I was so worried that something might go wrong during the performance, I started Googling for reactions as soon as the performances ended.  :P One anonymous poster commented that "Those had to be modified Force FX sabers!" Sorry, close but no cigar.) Apparently a DVD of the performances will go on sale sometime next year. Since I couldn't make it to the shows, I'm dying to see the video!

Anyway, here are a couple of the most un-lightsaber-like lightsabers you will ever see.