[Book] Lightsaber Combat for Beginners: The Unofficial Guide to Jedi Dueling

[cmartell]

Hi all,

About five months ago I purchased my first LED saber after seeing that lightsaber combat was starting to become popular at martial art schools and fitness clubs. But I wasn't really happy with some of the instruction I'd seen, which was completely focused on specific choreography that wouldn't work in a live sparring situation.

I decided to dig into my long-time passion for the martial arts to try to figure out which style of art would be best suited for lightsaber dueling. I decided to make the sword techniques described in Fiore dei Liberi's 14th century manuscript Flower of Battle the base for my saber system, and started codifying the system in a book.

I have now published the first book, Lightsaber Combat for Beginners Book: Learn The Choreography to Become a Jedi . The book has over 170 illustrations showing ten guard stances, eight types of strikes and several floor drills (including a little grappling) that can be used to create choreography but can also be used in live sparring duels. As far as I know this is the first and only book anyone has created that is designed to instruct in how to duel with a lightsaber.

In writing this book I was not trying to create a fan interpretation of one of the fictional lightsaber styles. I think it's a pretty impossible task to try to replicate techniques like blaster redirects and the crazy Jedi jumping techniques that defy physics. But I suppose if the technique bore any resemblance to a form it would be Type V. I chose Fiore's techniques because I think the combat looks very close to that used in Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, and a little like The Force Awakens, especially in regards to the techniques that Kylo Ren uses. 

Here are some example illustrations.


Anyway, tell me what you guys think!

[Caine]

I'm curious to check this out.

I think back to the pasy 8.5-9 years I have been in saber combat, that I am reevaluating all my previous teachings when it comes to saber combat. Choreo IS WAY OVERDONE. Until recently, there haven't been too many groups that have focused on actual sparring, but seeing groups in Singapore pop up (Ludosport IIRC) and other groups (names don't come to mind) that focuses on actual combative techniques is a breath of VERY fresh air.

I used to do many a tutorial on actual combative techniques based on real martial arts, and those were always my personal favorites.

I also agree that the fight scenes in ESB, ROTJ and TFA are far more realistic because of the types of strikes - heavy, powerful, and in some cases, barbaric.

Street fights are brutal and barbaric.
Saber fights should follow those same principals.

I really enjoyed the saber fights in TFA, and I feel that all prequel fight scenes  - although "pretty" have no combative value - (Qui-Gon and Maul's fights were MUCH more straightforward, devoid of too many flourishes, which have seen to take over the saber community these past several years).

Flourishes are fun, but in the end they're fluff.

What's your M.A. background?

[cmartell]

Glad to meet another like minded person!

I have over twenty years of experience. My foundation style was Tae Kwon Do, the so-called "traditional style" practiced by ITF schools. I joined the Army at 17, became an Infantryman and joined a soldier-ran group of martial artists from different backgrounds where we exchanged techniques, and I picked up Brazilian jiu jitsu, Muay Thai, Jeet Kune Do, Escrima, and Savate. I sort of went through this period of a few years where I spent all my pay purchasing martial art books about lots of different styles I was not able to find teachers for, so I became pretty knowledgeable about the history of different styles and the way they approached the body mechanics of striking.

When I was stationed at Ft. Drum I picked up Aikido and Combat Hapkido, and I also completed an advanced course in the Army's military close quarters combat training program, becoming a certified level 1 instructor. I then developed a training program for my platoon which I led the instruction for.

When I got out of the service I practiced Boxing for a'bit during college, and I also joined an MMA gym. I got into historical European arts as the availability of the material became more common but my martial art background has made it much easier to pick up the principles.

Ludosport is interesting; there is a lot about what they are doing which I admire. They've got custom uniforms, ranking systems and a formal tournament process. From their website they are developing a franchise system, too. But after studying all their videos I started noticing some of the techniques are not ones that I would do....there is a few techniques their students start off with where they just make a mad dash for the opponent's legs and that is just an awful idea due to reasons I explain in the book in addition to showing the counter for such an attack.

The guys in the Philippines you are referring to are probably Force Academy / Saber Authority. I think they have an interesting operation going as well, and it looks a little like Escrima to me. Because of my background in it, I honestly considered adapting Escrima, too but the physics of a lightsaber don't lend themselves very well to the techniques. Escrima is meant to be performed with much a shorter weapon and many of the grappling moves require you to touch the weapon in ways that would make for an "authentic" experience, such as touching your own blade with your hands or holding it under your armpits. There are moves like that in Fiori's system too, where you literally grab your blade or the opponent's blade, but those techniques are mostly specialty and not quite as core as they are in Escrima. So I decided to make Fiori the foundation for the beginner's book and will explore other kinds of techniques in later books as more advanced situational material.

[Caine]

Cool. Someone with REAL experience.

Since I haven't really posted a lot about my credentials in several years (some new folk don't know me, although I pioneered many aspect of saber combat and the 7 Forms of Combat)

*24 years of martial arts experience.
*6th Dan black belt under GM Ernie Reyes Sr. (although I am independent now and no longer affiliated)
*Martial Arts school owner in Central California
*Have trained in/currently train/trained in concepts of: Tae Kwon Do, Muay Thai, Jun Fan/Jeet Kune Do & Filipino Martial Arts (certified apprentice instructor in JKD) Brazilian Ju-Jitsu, Japanese Kobudo weaponry, Western Boxing, Silat...I can list the various FMA that I train in, but that can go on and on...

*Co-developer of the NCSCS saber combat system which has been adopted by various saber groups, including San Francisco's Golden Gate Knights.

*I was the first to fully develop, expand and teach the 7 Forms of Lightsaber Combat (except Soresu and Shi-Cho since they were already developed by the NY Jedi in the mid 2000's)

I am sure there is more. I just hate typing a novel, lol.

As far as Eskrima...I have adapted MANY concepts of Eskrima (including Kali and Largo Mano) into saberplay (the term that I coined BTW) and found that it works VERY well. Keep in mind that Eskrima is NOT only for knives and sticks...but longer weapons such as machetes, and other types of swords. Bear in mind, they come in all sizes and shapes. ;)



Your approach is also a very good one, and I encourage you to keep up with your teachings and research. Best of luck and I look forward to seeing the progress.

[cmartell]

Awesome. I've seen a lot of articles in the news lately about the Golden Gate Knights. There seemed to be a big push in the media to cover "lightsaber fitness classes" and I noticed Golden Gate Knights get talked about by some of the California based outlets.

I never learned any Escrima techniques that I felt were perfectly suited to the length and balance of the stunt sabers I have from Ultrabsaber. The knife / stick techniques are virtually the same techniques though, and is one of the things I like the most about Escrima (actually many of the armed techniques are very similar to the unarmed techniques, too, which is a crazy level of synergy I've never seen in another art).

Though Escrima is certainly a style that I intend to draw from for more advanced material in the curriculum I am organizing. Fiori's system was meant for edged weapon, so there are only two sides of the blade from which to attack with. A saber can attack from any side of the blade, similar to how Escrima practitioners wield sticks and this hasn't been lost on me. The trick I'm realizing is to figure out how to marry the two styles together so they can flow seamlessly with one another. The stances and footwork, and the distance that combat is fought, is different in Fiori and Escrima.

[Caine]

What it boils down to is: You have to find what works for you and run with it. I know nothing about Fiori, but it sounds ideal to have certain principals in saber combat.

If anyone tells you "No, that's not right," you need to distance yourself from them. And fast. Closed mindedness has killed many a martial arts practitioner's learning curve. And in some cases, their dojos, kwoons, etc.

Whatever the case, like in JKD...you take what you want and can use, and throw away the rest. ;)

[cmartell]

I agree with that. Bruce Lee had a wise philosophy.

[Ukkosenjumala]

I decided to dig into my long-time passion for the martial arts to try to figure out which style of art would be best suited for lightsaber dueling. I decided to make the sword techniques described in Fiore dei Liberi's 14th century manuscript Flower of Battle the base for my saber system, and started codifying the system in a book.

New to this forum and stumbled right away to a post that is very interesting. Previous place I lived local fencing school had Historical European Martial Arts (HEMA)-branch as well as sports fencing branch and I practised there few years. Fiore dei Liberi's Fior di Battaglia was big part of it, although Capoferro's rapier and I.33 sword and buckler are in syllabus too. But to my point: You might want to check out The School of European Swordsmanship [nofollow]'s Youtube [nofollow]-page. Unless you already have of course. But they have all Fiore's longsword plays on video there. Atleast their interpretation of Fiore's techniques, gets pretty myriad in that field since there isn't continuous tradition like most Asian martial arts has.

My background is with steel longsword (aka b-tard sword or hand-and-a-half sword) but I have had opportunities to use Fiore with boffers and lighsaber replicas and it worked pretty well after I got used to how light in weight the weapon is. So in my opinion you have pretty good thing going in here as you want to get gritty and dirty with lgihtsabers. Atleast here in Finland HEMA practitioners take Fiore as a style that is brunt, ugly, lacking finesse and brutally effective.

Question though, have you checked Filippo Vadi’s De Arte Gladiatoria Dimicandi? (Annotated translation can be found here [nofollow]. There might be some useful stuff for longer blades. Also if you like to get some cinematic flourish in your stuff then Liechtenauer might be nice addition. But I'll keep eye on your project and see where you take this.

Edit: Links now work.

[cmartell]

Glad you see the value in this and welcome to the thread.

I'm familiar with the sword school material, as I've used their resources to teach myself Fiore. One of the first changes I had to make though was coming up with English names for the techniques, stances and footwork because (like many HEMA folk) they leave all these names in the original language even though it makes the arts nigh-impossible to learn for people who don't speak those languages.

For example, Tutta porta di ferro is known as the Front Guard in my book. Tutta porta di ferro roughly means "Whole Iron Door" and it's extremely poetic but utterly nonsensical to anyone who speaks English, as the poetry is lost in translation. I called it a Front Guard because you face your opponent with the front of your body and "front stance" is the universal term in martial arts for any stance like that -- at least when Asian martial arts are translated to English.

I also used these English localization martial art conventions with the way I translated strikes performed from the side of your body that has your rear foot; these are 'reverse' strikes (Reverse cleave, Reverse middle cut, etc).

The moves in this book are all Fiore but the most important contribution I think I've made is making the material easy to learn for someone who speaks only English and has no prior martial art background -- which is who I think the average person interested in lightsaber combat often is. It's not 'pure' the way many HEMA folks seem to want things, but fortunately I'm not trying to recreate a historical style here but rather adopt the techniques for use in a modern sport style of saber fencing to be used for sparring and choreography. Similarly I am looking to adopt some Japanese Jō staff techniques for use with the double-bladed saber as I think the way the staff is held in some techniques can be adapted for the unique handle design of the double-bladed saber.

From my understanding De Arte Gladiatoria Dimicandi is based on Fiori's Flos Duellatorum and the moves are essentially identical. Is that not so?

[Ukkosenjumala]

I'm familiar with the sword school material, as I've used their resources to teach myself Fiore. One of the first changes I had to make though was coming up with English names for the techniques, stances and footwork because (like many HEMA folk) they leave all these names in the original language even though it makes the arts nigh-impossible to learn for people who don't speak those languages.
--snip--
The moves in this book are all Fiore but the most important contribution I think I've made is making the material easy to learn for someone who speaks only English and has no prior martial art background -- which is who I think the average person interested in lightsaber combat often is. It's not 'pure' the way many HEMA folks seem to want things, but fortunately I'm not trying to recreate a historical style here but rather adopt the techniques for use in a modern sport style of saber fencing to be used for sparring and choreography.

Pragmatic approach and for clarification I have no objection for your choices. HEMA is HEMA and sabre dueling is sabre dueling. But for HEMA and HEMA purists, that depends on school and if practitioner is taking part in competitions. When competition is main focus, the techniques gets less "pure", reason being no sharp blades, no heavy armour, lighter and faster swords etc. Actually might come much closer to sabre dueling because of those restriction. Check out Helsinki Long Sword Open gold match [nofollow] from last February. What always catches my eye in matches like these is that there are hardly never grabs on opponent's sword. And Fiore has many techniques that goes around grabbing swordblade. And if light sabres were real that'd be very, very bad idea.

On the opposite side of the coin is the historical recreation and all that preparing for competiotion goes out of window and books are taken off of their shelves. Many times it comes just repeating same thing and finetuning the grip, stance, movement of blades etc. until the stance one is looks more like the stance that is in manuscript. And more often than not it still looks weird or works weirdly.

Similarly I am looking to adopt some Japanese Jō staff techniques for use with the double-bladed saber as I think the way the staff is held in some techniques can be adapted for the unique handle design of the double-bladed saber.

Thought about this last night too. There isn't equivalent for two-bladed sabre in Fiore, so Japanese and perhaps some Chinese styles are logical step. Although, I started to think about spearlike lightweapon to implement for Fiore's spear. But that goes against many visual and style consepts in Star Wars universe so I'll propably leave it at that level.

From my understanding De Arte Gladiatoria Dimicandi is based on Fiori's Flos Duellatorum and the moves are essentially identical. Is that not so?

Yes and no. There is straight lineage from Fiore to Vadi, that is obvious. Many stances are same, same goes with strikes, but Vadi adds few of his own too. For example Vadi has high stances (sword above head) while Fiore has none. But biggest difference is sword length. For Fiore the sword should come around bottom of sternum when standing on it's tip. Vadi comes all the way to armpit. For me, 190cm/~6'4", my longsword for Fiore is 125cm/~4'2" (could be bit longer) and for Vadi I'd need a sword that is 155cm/~5'2". This makes the dynamics of the sword different. Ie. when you stand in Tutta Porto di Ferro with Fiore and take step forward you switch sword to Dente di Zenghiaro on your left side. For Vadi, Tutta Porto di Ferro is identical, but when taking step, the sword stays on your right side, can't remember the name of the stance, and only switches sides through strikes. And this is mainly because of the difference in sword length. I did have chance to try Vadi with my own sword and borrowed Vadi length sword. Doing plays with longer one made more sense that doing them with shorter. But setting details above aside, you are right, base is very similar in Vadi's book compared to any manuscript of Fiore's book. Vadi propably studied under some Fiore's students or perhaps even under Fiore himself. There is only about 50 years between Fior di Battaglia and De Arte Gladiatoria Dimicandi so either of above is possible.

And as last note on this post I do like that you are taking European art and implementing that when most sabre stuff so far have taken it's inspiration from Asian arts. And if you have any questions of Fiore or HEMA feel free to ask. I answer what I can.

[cmartell]

I appreciate your support. That's some valuable information and good food for thought.

There are lightsaber pikes in the cannon Star Wars universe, and I think some companies do manufacture saber pikes for use in stunt combat.

I've been trying to think of what I should call this saber style. I don't think it wise to take the Ludosport approach where they name their fanstyles after the official Star Wars trademarks (I have a suspicion eventually Disney is going to go after them, for that and for calling their members Jedi and Sith).

As the foundation of the moves is based in a European style I thought perhaps having a name that is from a European language would work well.

I'm working on the next book, which is for Intermediates. It covers the rest of Fiori's swordsmanship, sans the one-handed techniques requiring you to grasp your own blade or the opponent's blade. I am going to fill in the gaps with Escrima and possibly some two-sword techniques from kenjutsu (although it is an awkward fit, as kenjutsu uses two swords of different length).

As part of this I am also going to put in some Tai Chi Sword as one of the kata (forms), as I think some quasi-ascetic practice might be useful in the sense of teaching people to do meditation for health reasons and it kind of goes with the idea of being a Jedi. I am not religious myself but I think there is health value in meditation and if possible I'd like to promote it.

So basically the new book chapters will cover:

• Feint Drills
• Disarm Drills
• Saber Spinning Tricks
• Saber Kata (forms)

I've been thinking of what I should call this style of saber combat, cause its clear I am codifying a moveset. I have German ancestry and although I am using Fiori, I know his style was widely practiced in Europe including Germany. I was thinking maybe Welt Säbelkunst might be a good name, which means “World Saber Art” as I would like people around the world to learn it.

I thought at first perhaps I would use a name that oded to Fiori, like Battle Flower Art or something, but Schlacht florwer Kunst doesn't quite have the right aesthetics. I will probably name the first kata after his treatise though.

[Caine]

So basically the new book chapters will cover:

• Feint Drills
• Disarm Drills
• Saber Spinning Tricks
• Saber Kata (forms)

I covered all those aspects and more throughout the years, and few others have since. I am curious to see what you come up with.

[Ukkosenjumala]

There are lightsaber pikes in the cannon Star Wars universe, and I think some companies do manufacture saber pikes for use in stunt combat.

Of this I don't know. I base most of my knowledge on movies and TV-series.

I've been trying to think of what I should call this saber style. I don't think it wise to take the Ludosport approach where they name their fanstyles after the official Star Wars trademarks...

...perhaps having a name that is from a European language would work well.

Copyright is big deal, that is true. I think better be safe than sorry. As for name, Fiore's books are public domain, it has been hundreds of years since manuscripts were written and copied, so pick something from Fior di Battglia and translate it with some suitable flourish. Or see what has been done earlier with SW-franchise. Ie. there is this one fighting game for PlayStation called Masters of Teräs Käsi [nofollow]. Teräs Käsi is Finnish (or Teräskäsi with correct grammar) and means Steel Hand. Couple of suggestions anyway. Your stuff, your decision. I'd go for Fiore. :)

I'm working on the next book, which is for Intermediates. It covers the rest of Fiori's swordsmanship, sans the one-handed techniques requiring you to grasp your own blade or the opponent's blade.

If you want to continue with European, or Italian, touch check out Bolognese sword and dagger for two weapons. Same dilemma though as with kenjutsu. Here's link to Wiktenauer [nofollow]. Also check out Ilkka Hartikainen's Youtube-page [nofollow]. He is leading researcher and implementer of Bolognese style in Finland.

As part of this I am also going to put in some Tai Chi Sword as one of the kata (forms), as I think some quasi-ascetic practice might be useful in the sense of teaching people to do meditation for health reasons and it kind of goes with the idea of being a Jedi.

I am not religious either but I can see the benefits of breathing exercises as whole. I did it quite lot when training Fiore. Basic instruction videos for two or three are in Swordschools Youtube-channel. Those are from Chinese tradition, Tai Shin Mun-style kung fu to be precise, as Windsor knows sifu of Helsinki branch.[/quote]

So basically the new book chapters will cover:

List looks good for second book. And if you feel funny about combining saber spinning and Fiore, don't be. Windsor encourages people to play with swords. Helps to get feel of heft, centre of grvity and reach of your weapon.

I have German ancestry and although I am using Fiori, I know his style was widely practiced in Europe including Germany. I was thinking maybe Welt Säbelkunst might be a good name, which means “World Saber Art” as I would like people around the world to learn it.

Using German is viable choice too. As I said before; your book, your decision. :)

[Tanqster]

I appreciate your support. That's some valuable information and good food for thought.

There are lightsaber pikes in the cannon Star Wars universe, and I think some companies do manufacture saber pikes for use in stunt combat.

I've been trying to think of what I should call this saber style. I don't think it wise to take the Ludosport approach where they name their fanstyles after the official Star Wars trademarks (I have a suspicion eventually Disney is going to go after them, for that and for calling their members Jedi and Sith).

As the foundation of the moves is based in a European style I thought perhaps having a name that is from a European language would work well.

I'm working on the next book, which is for Intermediates. It covers the rest of Fiori's swordsmanship, sans the one-handed techniques requiring you to grasp your own blade or the opponent's blade. I am going to fill in the gaps with Escrima and possibly some two-sword techniques from kenjutsu (although it is an awkward fit, as kenjutsu uses two swords of different length).

As part of this I am also going to put in some Tai Chi Sword as one of the kata (forms), as I think some quasi-ascetic practice might be useful in the sense of teaching people to do meditation for health reasons and it kind of goes with the idea of being a Jedi. I am not religious myself but I think there is health value in meditation and if possible I'd like to promote it.

So basically the new book chapters will cover:

• Feint Drills
• Disarm Drills
• Saber Spinning Tricks
• Saber Kata (forms)

I've been thinking of what I should call this style of saber combat, cause its clear I am codifying a moveset. I have German ancestry and although I am using Fiori, I know his style was widely practiced in Europe including Germany. I was thinking maybe Welt Säbelkunst might be a good name, which means “World Saber Art” as I would like people around the world to learn it.

I thought at first perhaps I would use a name that oded to Fiori, like Battle Flower Art or something, but Schlacht florwer Kunst doesn't quite have the right aesthetics. I will probably name the first kata after his treatise though.

I am an instructor at TPLA also with HEMA experience (German tradition - Ringeck, Meyer, Dobringer, Wallerstein, etc). We have been incorporating many of the things you have talked about, with instructors from Japanese, Chinese, and European traditions. We are always looking for more people to join us and to enrich the collective arts. I have a long history with Shindo Muso Ryu jo, which combines sword, staff, spear, and naginata techniques, and have been incorporating them into saberstaff. If you're interested, check us out on Youtube or join us on Facebook!