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Author Topic: Best Dark Side Apprentice?  (Read 8513 times)

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Offline The_Night

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Best Dark Side Apprentice?
« on: November 17, 2011, 12:45:28 AM »
Not talking just with a saber or who had the biggest plot. If allowed to go full sith who do you think would have been the strongest/ best sith master?
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Offline C-3P0

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Re: Best Dark Side Apprentice?
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2011, 12:51:37 AM »
Maaan, that's a hard choice. So many awesome characters on the list. I'm a Dooku fan so he got the edge :)

Offline Dark Underlord

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Re: Best Dark Side Apprentice?
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2011, 01:02:35 AM »
Lord Vader Unleashed! 8) Unrestricted :(, unrefined >:(, uninhibited  :o!!!


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Offline vvenom

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Re: Best Dark Side Apprentice?
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2011, 01:55:40 AM »

Hands down Maul really was such a great sith i still think he need a second movie.

Now come on he got cut in half and fell who knows how far and still lives that win! :)

And who doesn't want a Darth Maul saber run sometime in the next year ( When we all have money again )



Offline The_Night

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Re: Best Dark Side Apprentice?
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2011, 02:06:10 AM »
Idk. I was never that big of a maul fan. I mean he got beat up by obi before he was even a real Jedi, not to mention he had forever to prepare. The others only had the time frame between the movies really. And Anakin in ep 3 got beat down by obi too. And grievous... We'll just not mention that ;)
Dooku was the only one that ever actually won a fight in the films ( before yoga showed up) and was more of a behind the scenes character.

I had to vote for ventress. Her and maul seemed like the only two that weren't always hiding and ruling from behind the scenes. And ventress always seemed much more sith like to me. She had actual rage and power that maul never really showed. And IMO female warriors always seem a bit better in battles then the men.

Anakin showed alot of potential in ep 3 but wasnt really quite the real vader of the prequels. He still seemed like a winy little kid to me.
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Offline nartules

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Re: Best Dark Side Apprentice?
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2011, 02:10:42 AM »
I voted for Ventress as well...I think she is one of the more well thought out characters in the clone war series.  She has her rage, but you never know exactly what she is going to do.  She seems a little complex and because of that I seem a little more drawn to her.  I think if given the opportunity she would have made a great apprentice for Lord Sideous.


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Offline vvenom

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Re: Best Dark Side Apprentice?
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2011, 02:22:59 AM »

True Obi-Wan did beat Maul but hey he is by far my favourite character in Star wars

Ventress is a very good sith im a fan but i just think Maul if given more time could have been a deeper character just as much if not more than Ventress

Lets also not forget he is An assassin and would need to focus that rage  :)

Offline Drazel O'Thumos

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Re: Best Dark Side Apprentice?
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2011, 04:04:25 AM »
Maul was very skilled with lightsabers, but he did not seem to have been adopted by Sidious for his intelligence and autonomous thinking (as far as one can judge by what we briefly saw in the movies, but admittedly, this remains speculative because he was not very... talkative!)

Ventress wasn't a full-fledged "apprentice" of Dooku, properly speaking, and, moreover, she was not composed enough and coldly calculating enough, unlike Dooku.

Anakin Skywalker/Vader was very powerful in mastering Force techniques and in wielding a lightsaber, but he was not a calm, composed and far-seeing person, and his powerful but overwhelming emotions could serve him well but they also frequently clouded his judgement (just think of the way he reacts on various occasions by just dashing into danger like an unrestrained tornado  -- and think of his last move in his fateful duel against Obi Wan Kenobi : what he did was just plainly stupid!!  ::) ::) ::) He could have jumped everywhere else around Obi Wan, or even wisely adjusted the amplitude of his jump, or circumvent the obvious danger by gradually gaining the "high ground" or tricking Obi Wan by letting him think that he was "losing ground" while actually letting Obi Wan exhaust himself and waiting for the right moment to strike, just as Dooku did in his first duel with Obi Wan....Think of it : Dooku was the only one to be able to repeatedly defeat Obi Wan : Why? - because, unlike others, he perfectly knows that pretending to lose ground or to hesitate, and using tactical elements of surprise is as much important in a duel as resorting to raw acrobatic skills. I admire that and I can testify to the fact that it is crucial in duels  :) ;) )

... thus in the end, I voted for Dooku, because he is both an excellent dueller and an expert in telekinesis, and moreover, he is an intelligent, composed and tactical mind and, paradoxically, an "idealistic" person who turned to the Dark Side because of his political and ethical convictions (I like this idea). And to all that, you must add that he had the logistic and material means to fulfill his ambitions (he was of noble descent and had a tremendous wealth).
First point : Dooku is the best dueller and has a lot of stamina (for a person of his age). Just think of the way he managed, in Episode 2, to withstand a continuous and demanding three-round fight (first Obi Wan, then Anakin, and finally Yoda!) and of the way he managed to defeat two of the most powerful Jedis at that time (Anakin - he severed his right arm and knocked him out- and also Obi Wan - he incapacitated him by inflicting him two bad gashes, one on the shoulder and the other one on the thigh, and he most certainly would have finished him if Anakin had not parried his strike). And on his second encounter with the Anakin-Obi Wan duo, he again managed to knock out one of the two Jedis (Obi Wan) while holding his ground against the other (Anakin) until his opponent resorted to a skillful, unconventional and twisted move (in the end Dooku was defeated by a trick and what was fatal to him was both his overconfidence and his failure to see that his nostalgic respect for some of the old-fashioned conventions of aristocratic duels (not trying to hold/restrain your opponent's body with your bare hands while blocking his blade, which was seen as a rude and disgusting move unworthy of an aristocratic fighter - only quick blows were allowed) were not shared by Anakin.
And, by the way, when you compare the duelling skills of Dooku to those of "old" Obi Wan and Vader (when they meet again onboard of Death Star 1  ::) ), you can clearly see that aging is not a valid excuse for lack of training!  (on Geonosis, Dooku was already MUCH older than "old" Obi Wan and "old" Vader when they """""""fought"""""""" onboard of Death Star >:( ::) )...
Second point : Dooku, although far less powerful than Sidious, was one of the best practitioner of telekinesis of the Jedi Order, and he seemed to be very skilled in using various techniques (electromagnetic Force lightning, distal psychokinesis, most certainly mind control and hypnosis).
Third point : Dooku is the "Bruce Wayne" of the Dark Side (lol -poor comparison, forgive me) : his powers lie as much in his physical prowesses as in his formidable wealth (which enabled him to bribe many people, to buy abundant war material, to raise a separatist army, to finance a few innovative experiments on cybernetics, among which was the reconstruction of a well-known Kaleesh general... etc)

It is interesting to note that each one of Sidious' apprentices was seduced by the Dark Side by a different kind of trick.

Darth Sidious/Palpatine adapts his speech and technique to the person he wants to seduce, and to what his/her dominant passion and prominent weakness are : Darth Maul was raised in the Dark Side of the Force by means of his fear of insecurity as a young child, his agressivity and his need for guidance. Count Dooku was convinced into it by means of his pride, his resentment and his political ambition. Anakin Skywalker  was tricked into it by means of his passionate temper, his rebellious attitude, his paradoxical  longing for a father-like authoritarian figure, and his overwhelming fear of losing the ones he loved. Finally, Luke Skywalker would have been trolled into the Dark side by means of his anger  towards his father, his attachment to his friends, and his hatred against the Empire. There are many paths towards the Dark Side, and many possible temptations…

And all that was planned and done by a cunning and manipulative Sith Lord who managed to patiently and gradually rise to power by raising rival political forces against each other and by exploiting  the fears and desires of his allies and enemies as well! Palpatine/Sidious  truely is … insidious, and he is the perfect embodiment of what Dante Alighieri , in his Inferno, called the Fraudulent and Treacherous souls (the last and deepest circles of the Inferno)…  :o :-\
« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 04:30:41 AM by forcepractitioner »

Offline Nero Attoru

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Re: Best Dark Side Apprentice?
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2011, 05:23:58 AM »
My first thought when I saw this poll was "Vader".  Then I saw that the only option was Anakin pre-Mustafar... this changed my opinion a bit.  Here's my breakdown:

Maul - Very cunning and efficient, a perfect assassin but ultimately I think he would lack the ability for the true subtleties of the Sith.  It didn't seem like planning and manipulation were his strong points, and these are clearly prime requisites for a great Sith Lord as shown by Sidious.

Anakin pre-Mustafar - It's clear that Anakin at this point was brimming with power, literally an unstoppable Force-juggernaut.  However, once again we're looking at someone with all brawn and no brains... in fact this is the way he was defeated by a supposedly less powerful individual (Obi-Wan).  Despite his experiences, Anakin at this point is still immature and angsty and headstrong - just as these are poor Jedi qualities, they impeded a Sith's ability to work behind the scenes and gain control of the galaxy.

General Grievous - once again, a mindless killing machine.  Grievous may be a brilliant general, but it's clear he's not cut out to be a Sith Lord.  No subtlety, no Force sensitivity, heck he wasn't even a Sith Apprentice!

Asajj Ventress - The second best choice IMO.  Cunning, ambitious, and devious with some serious combat skills to boot.  Her youth made her a bit headstrong, but I think this would have been tempered with age and experience.

Dooku - Don't get me wrong, I hate AOTC, but to me Dooku is the best choice of these.  He has the intelligence and patience of a true Sith, with lightsaber and Force skills to back it up.  The guy knows when to retreat, and how to lay a trap.  The only thing I think that would hurt him is his arrogance - but then again this ends up being the downfall of many Sith (Palpatine especially).



Offline AAYLA SECURA

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Re: Best Dark Side Apprentice?
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2011, 06:20:57 AM »
Easily Darth Vader, before the suit. Palpatine mentioned this in ROTS. The Jedi were aware that it was a possibility. The book, Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader also goes into detail on how Vader lost so much Force potential after being injured. He was young and foolish, but had he been allowed to continue to learn the dark side and mature as a true Sith without the suit, Vader would have been in control of the galaxy before ANH, in my estimation.

I think Count Dooku/Darth Tyranus was pretty much on-par with Darth Maul strength-wise. They both could put up a heck of a fight, with Maul being more of a cut/slash/and run type and Tyranus being more of a slow, painful death type. Tyranus' mastery of the Force was greater than Maul's, with Maul having been much younger and less experienced, but I'm sure Maul would have gotten there someday had he survived Naboo.

Asajj Ventress was strong, yes, but I don't think I'd place her at the ranks of Tyranus or Maul. She would have matured and strengthened, but I think she would have still been less powerful. Like Maul, she seemed to be more brawn than brains, and didn't have the same type of upbringing as a Jedi or Sith as the other characters did.

Greivous was not Force-sensitive. He could only learn the lightsaber skills Tyranus taught him, and he had the advantage of being largely machine, so his accuracy and abilities were incredibly exaggerated.
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Offline LadySythe

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Re: Best Dark Side Apprentice?
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2011, 05:50:34 PM »
Darth Maul *swoons*

If anyone of you says different...I'm coming after you!

 ;D

But I must say, Maul wasnt a brainless tool, I beg to differ. Sith must be schooled, learn everything from math to history, languages and etiquette. People don't think he's smart because we don't get to see much of him and his roll in TPM. You have to read the Dark Horse minie series, the novel and the short story, as well as the scholastic book. There is also info about him in Darth Plagueis's new book. There is more to the man than people think ;)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 05:54:44 PM by SHAAK TI »
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Offline Nero Attoru

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Re: Best Dark Side Apprentice?
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2011, 05:33:01 AM »
Darth Maul *swoons*

If anyone of you says different...I'm coming after you!

 ;D

But I must say, Maul wasnt a brainless tool, I beg to differ. Sith must be schooled, learn everything from math to history, languages and etiquette. People don't think he's smart because we don't get to see much of him and his roll in TPM. You have to read the Dark Horse minie series, the novel and the short story, as well as the scholastic book. There is also info about him in Darth Plagueis's new book. There is more to the man than people think ;)

I agree - the only reason he came off as a brainless tool was because his only role in the movie was to be the "dark and mysterious warrior" that serves as the right hand man of the Big Bad.  The guy tracked the heroes all around the galaxy and managed to ambush a prestigious Jedi Master on Tattooine, later to kill him on Naboo.  I'd say that takes some skill and ingenuity!



Offline Artorius Vidnyl

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Re: Best Dark Side Apprentice?
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2011, 06:18:49 AM »
I've read the Dark Horse mini series and I have to agree with Shaak Ti.  I actually like him BETTER because he doesn't open his mouth.  He doesn't fall prey to the awful writing of the prequels.  I just wish they would have used him a bit more and not killed him so quickly.

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Offline achilles266

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Re: Best Dark Side Apprentice?
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2011, 04:34:30 PM »
Darth Maul easily, though I must admit that I was dissapointed that they killed him off so quickly especially all the time spent building mystery around him he was supposed to be one of the most promising and skilled sith

so thats why I voted Maul

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Offline Ven Zallow

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Re: Best Dark Side Apprentice?
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2011, 05:55:13 PM »
In my opinion Dooku. Although not my favorite character (but love his aristocratic fencing style) I think he could have surpassed The Emperor. The reason why is he had a number of things going for him that I don't think the others did. In other words the complete package. Anakin: superb martial prowess, however very impatient. True force understanding would simply pass him by due to this. Darth Maul: Probably my favorite SW character but all he had going for him was his passion/anger. A little nearsighted/focused on physical combat and doesnt seem the type to explore the deeper sides of the force. General Grevious: Not force sensitive to my understanding. So he's definitely out. Ventress: Meh, just never liked the character at all :D

Dooku had it all. Very much like the Emperor. Dooku was calm, calculated, intelligent, had knowledge of both sides of the force, superb saber skills, force powers equal to that of Yoda.

 

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