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Author Topic: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available  (Read 186919 times)

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Offline The Highwayman

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2010, 06:47:12 PM »
you know... doesn't it sort of feel like your calling a radio station being the EXACT caller trying to win the prize.

Haven't won with that either :(

Hoping this V5 will be plentiful enough for all (or that I can finally be the proud owner of one ) :)

I'm only new to the saber scene but I agree! I will be snapping up at least 3 on launch day :p

Maybe... if they last long enough.... I think they sold out in like 45 seconds last times.


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Offline erv

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2010, 07:13:55 AM »
still waiting for my quote for the expensive part.
Also, the proto PCBs must be in my mailbox now, I'll see tonight when I go home after work, but firmware port should start very soon, eager to test my new low level routine and how the new chip is faster.

Good news of the day :  I might have found the rare pearl (in france at least)... a compagny accepting to assemble 90% of CF, including placement and reflow soldering with a partially automatic machine while NOT asking to handle completly the project and charge me incredible fees for "project managing" and "part supplying". Basically I provide my PCBs and my tape & reels, I pay the solder paste stencil and machine time. They might offer me the placement program.

The cost per board is really affordable, aside of the price of the stencil that has to be soften over 200 or 300 boards but if I don't change anything on the future PCBs, that will be a static cost that I'll soon forget.

They accept runs of 100 or 150 boards (or much less if needed, they start at the single proto). Once I get something stable, it's easy to order more.
Don't get it as I quit craftmanship for a trip to $$$ land : some parts of the CF will still be soldered by hand by me !
Then I'll flash and test each board manually, install the sound package on the SD etc.

It's just that instead of going in the silly soldering of 20,000 joints per run, a machine will do that, hence more run per year and overall more boards.

That will be a relief, cause soldering a run is tiring on multiple levels and not having to worry about _production_ will provide me *more* time for firmware upgrade and feature improvements, once the hardware will have prooved to be valid.

On a last point, I reviewed my PCB with the assembly compagny this afternoon, spotted a few things to be corrected for a proper reflow soldering process and since they can't place 0402 SMDs with the machine, I went back to 0603, but board size hasn't changed.
I only kept 0402 footprints for the PLI resistors : V5 provides the (tiny) space & footprints so that the user can solder the accent leds / PLI resistor on the board rather than installing classic 1/4 watters outside of the board.
0402 SMDs are like SMALL. No. Microscopic (almost) but with a good pair of tweezers, it's easy, and you really save space.

ok who said "What resistor for accent leds ?????"  ;)
(direct drive is a bad habit unless done for specific LEDs and Vf)
« Last Edit: February 23, 2010, 07:20:42 AM by erv »

Offline JANGO FETT

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2010, 08:40:26 AM »













j/k good news!!! ;D ;D
« Last Edit: February 23, 2010, 08:56:25 AM by JANGO FETT »


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Offline nartules

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2010, 08:53:17 AM »
Awesome news ERV! I hope it all works out   ;D


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Offline erv

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2010, 09:06:03 AM »
jango, LOL !!! you made my day.

Before I had F5 looser as "enemies", now F5 purist are.  World is non perfect by nature ahahah

Offline GENERAL GRIEVOUS

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2010, 12:45:38 PM »
***Cries huge tears of joy*** ;D

Offline Delmustator

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2010, 06:11:52 PM »
Well I've never complained about the price of CF boards. It's always been the lack of availability.

But it's all good. I have no trouble waiting for these puppies. When you get one, you can hold it, caress it, show it tons of love and affection, wire it into your saber, and enjoy it for years.........

Anyone have any theme music to add to this tranquil vision?   ;D
-Del


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Offline erv

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2010, 11:58:14 PM »
more question for you guys.
So, current deal is that I wanted V5 to work from an input voltage range from 5V to 15V.

The unicorn part that costs a stiff price AND is hard to get in quantity allows that. Another part, much cheaper and widely available allows only an input voltage range of 6V to 15V.

Previous version of CF were practically working from 3.4V to 12V or so, however the audio amp has ALWAYS requested 4.5 or 5V to work at it's best. For the new audio solution I've designed, sound volume is constant whatever the batt voltage is, BUT you need at least 5V. Board will still work at lower voltage but you'll probably get distorsion.

My concern about voltage is the use of nimh AA. I've always advised people NOT to use AAA in anycase since they are weak, unless you make a 6 pack. I don't want to "forbid" the use of nimh but we all know that despite it's cheap and AAA are small, it's a weak solution, and for the sake of quality (audio, constant brightness, whistanding 3 cells etc) I might "state" li-ion only so that people don't try weird setup and complain that they get wrong results like it happened in the past for AAA

(note : the problem with a 4 nimh AAA pack isn't about CF, it's the battery technology that generates ripple when you try to pump out 1.5A from them to power a luxeon, it's just wrong).

the question is : do you see a problem of pointing CF users to li-ion only, unless one wants to make a 6 nimh pack (and knowing the limitations) ? Honnestly I don't see that as a problem. I haven't made a nimh saber since like mid 2007. Using a 4AA pack was actually never really never totally compliant with the CF audio amp requirements, unless at full charge when the pack is 5.4V, but for a really short time, then voltage drops. But still, it sort of "worked"

So I believe it's time to say bye bye to nimh (for CF, it's still great maybe for MR boards). What do you think and "impose" the right solution ? Might help also customers to focus on hilt designs instead of bugging me with questions like "can I power my saber with a 9V battery ? because I don't have a lot of space in there".

[addon]
Again, if I'm not clear enough, it's not about nimh per say. I'm not saying that nimh cells WON'T work, it's about minimum voltage for proper use, with the consideration that a classy 4 nimh cell doens't provide enough voltage. Sound will output with the board anyway, it's just that it won't be the same quality as inputing 6V.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 12:21:42 AM by erv »

Offline vex

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2010, 12:12:04 AM »
IMO, The li-ion pack is is an all around better solution for power. More runtime, more voltage, less hilt space = more advancement for features and new tech. As for the safety issue, if you aren't comfortable wiring up a CF or a battery pack, there is always an amazing 'smith to do it for a fair and worthwhile fee.

Offline Matt Thorn

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2010, 12:34:49 AM »
I am guessing that most people who would use a CF have no problem using a li-ion set-up (and if they do, they probably shouldn't be handling a CF in the first place  ;)). I vote for the cheaper, more readily available part.
There's always a bigger fish.

Offline Novastar

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2010, 01:12:03 AM »
<--- feels VINDICATED, heheheh

Not to pump my fist TOO hard in the air, but... yup... I've been TRYING to help people make EDUCATED decisions about their battery choices for sabers since like 2006/2007.  I think my thread on TCSS helps paint some of the picture, too:

http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showpost.php?p=50006&postcount=1

Keep in mind... at the time of "post #1"--I had really just started to scratch the surface on my experiences w/ Li-Ion cells.

But anyway... some key points:

* I don't see why the MAJORITY of people would give anything less than 6v to CF
* If you're doing most ANY kind of "FoC" (flash on clash) setup with your LEDs... chances are--yer gonna need a bigger boat, lol... :)  So, you're probably ALREADY aiming for 7.2v or >
* When you get right down to it... even if you're going to power an LED which wants ~4v... you STILL should figure in ~1v for CF... ~1v for your speaker... and maybe you're using CF's accent LEDs (most like this and don't just "skip it") and possibly even a vibration motor--so let's say ~1v there?

And even if that is "being conservative"... we have 4v + 1v + 1v + 1v = .... .... TAKE... ONE... GALDARN... GUESS.

Not to mention, who in here expects their pack to "maintain" voltage PERFECTLY throughout the entire discharge cycle?  Raise your dismembered hands please.  ... ... ... ... I thought so.

Ah, but if you're using Li-Ion... hey... "flatter" discharge curve (as I mentioned above via TCSS thread).  :D  Still though.  Even a Li-Ion pack starting at "8.4v" WHILE UNDER LOAD will be more like "8v true"... and dip to 7.5v pretty quickly.  From there, you're getting the average--which is why batteries are rated as such, and yes... you get ~7.2 or ~7.4v.  Big surprise.

//Uhhhh-ohhhhhhh... BEGIN LONG RANT

Sooo... any way you slice it:

* You're kind of "the minority report" if you're using <= 5v with CF...
* You're kind of underpowering the SPK if you're using AAA in general... although maybe 9.6v AAA would be OK.
* How in the holy lord of Zeus' BUTTCRACK are you fitting all those NiMh cells in THERE??!?!?  Have you completely lost your MIND?!??!

Ok, ok--on the last one I am sort of joking, because YES--you CAN indeed fit 14 (!!)  AAA Ni-Mh cells into a saber... and wire it in // and = and result in 8.4v ("9.6v"??)... and yes... Edwin (Eandori) did this.  And it does indeed work.

But really.  WHY.  Why, when you can do this with 2 x 18650 and save a TRUCKLOAD of space wasted in "battery casing"... and wiring... and more possibilities for solder point #1, #5 and #12 to break??!?!

Anyway.  I'm rambling.  I do that after tricking workouts.

Wait.  I do that all the bloody time.  Never mind--look... I'll just end with WHAT I BELIEVE (read: Nova's opinion) to be the SOLE advantage of Ni-Mh chemistry--for SABERS--vs. Li-Ion.

Ready?

~~ Draw ~~

That's it.  From Ni-Mh, you can draw a THRONG of amps.  Like... say you want 10A.  It's probably not a problem.  Probably.  Then again... most Li-Ion cells that *I* work with (generally 18650s)... can handle "4.2C".  If you don't know what "C" is... you're going to have to see another thread on TCSS.  I don't remember where I posted on that.

But all you need to know is... 18650s can handle JUST FINE drawing like 4A.  Probably more.  It depends a bit also on the PCB protection circuit that is used... but still.

//END LONG RANT
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Offline erv

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2010, 01:26:28 AM »
But all you need to know is... 18650s can handle JUST FINE drawing like 4A.  Probably more.  It depends a bit also on the PCB protection circuit that is used... but still.

great input and perfect summary (can't type all that right now with the broken finger).
I'll just add that newer li-ion cells are actually able to get a discharge rate of 2C, and the special onces used now in portable power tools have even bigger than that, reason why advantages of nimh are fading out.

Add on top of that li-ion has very low self discharge while my nimh  cordless drilling machine drop from 100% to dead horse in one single night if the basement temp drops under like 17°C. My li-ion saber stay charged for about a year, at least. My first MP3 player stayed 2 years in a box and was still at 2/3rd of the charge.

Offline jock109

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2010, 01:56:01 AM »
Erv you are, as it says in your sig, the keeper of the buttered toast, and as far as i can see you can butter that toast however you like. Although i've only been on this scene for a short period of time it is obvious you have the ultimate respect of your contemporaries and you seem a very genuine and honest guy. If you think this latest slice of buttered toast should be spread with Li-Ion to get the best results then thats the way to go. I can't see it being an issue for anyone lucky enough to get their hands on one.
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Offline Novastar

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2010, 02:07:56 AM »
Ah, yes--really great extra points from Erv!!  It's true--Li-Ion cells (just by design) tend to maintain their charge.  I can speak for the REAL-WORLD application of such things, as...

* Sometimes I store my LED sabers (mainly all Li-Ion) for a month or so w/o great usage...
* A b-day or event comes up... guess what--they function fine!
* I can almost "count in my mind" how they all last for about 2.5 to 3 hours (depending on the saber, as they are all VASTLY different for driving/boards)
* I have yet to need to REPLACE any of my Li-Ion cells... SOME of which have been in usage--are you ready for this--since Balance of Power EP I, meaning the cell is basically from 2005/2006!!!!!!!!  O.O

The last point should be a very large eye-opener... I mean, I'm not kidding--we're talking about someone who has been using/abusing/charging/re-charging his sabers MUCH more than the average user.  Especially during '06, '07, and a good portion of '08.

Although... I will be honest... literally maybe ONE WEEK ago... I ~finally~ saw one of the cells in my v2 "Necrolosis stunt staff" fail completely.  It can no longer carry a charge (I've confirmed this via wiring, as if I hook it through the charger, everything behaves just fine--it's "passing through", hahah).  This cell is probably the first of many... but come on...

...that's around FIVE YEARS of usage!!  :)  Do ya think I got my money's worth?!?!  Maybe $10 each 18650?!?!?  Or even if it was $15 for a single cell?!?  Do you think that's enough?  :)
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Offline Luke S.

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Re: Crystal Focus V5 Discussion Thread / NOT for asking when they are available
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2010, 03:06:28 AM »
It's a no brainer Erv.  Down with nimh up with lith ion.   I only ever used them in my son's saber.  That is now lith ion.  I've been using them with great success almost since I've joined the site.  It's a great choice.

2 18650's rule.  ;D

Cheaper part+lith ion suggested batteries+mass production of CF 5 = many many happy saber owners. 

 

retrousse