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FX-Sabers Discussion - Including a Gallery of custom sabers. => Data Sheets => Topic started by: XsaberX on October 04, 2008, 12:56:43 PM
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I just gutted a Luke ANH and measured the board running into different LEDs - each LED ran at optimal voltage
Lux3 Red & Red/O:
With 3AA NIMH = 1510ma
With 4AA NIMH = 1980ma (woah...)
Lux3 Green & Blue:
With 3AA NIMH = 770ma
With 4AA NIMH = 1850ma (...)
Ledengin 5watt Blue & Green (Optimal is 3.7v and 1500ma)
With 3AA NIMH = 710ma
With 3AA NIMH = 1520ma
I also occasionally subbed the 3AA batteries with an 18650 li-ion cell and it would essentially run at about the same current
I had no idea that these levels were possible from an MR board, and that the more voltage you throw at it, the more current you generate...
I also compared blade brightness with the same LEDs running through a CF at 1500ma and they were indeed the same
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Hot dog !!! :o It is indeed a heck of a saber! And I own one, maybe I should pop a Lux3 blue in it and upgrade to 4 AA instead of 3? ???
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I wonder if all of the Luke ANH board function the same way...
I've always heard that the MR boards could only put out a maximum of 900ma or so, I wonder if this is true or if some of the other ones are also capable of this.
I had an Obi-Wan board that I tested with:
4AA NIMH lux3 green = 850ma
4AA NIMH lux3 redO = 1220ma
And a Vader ANH board that I tested with:
4AA NIMH lux3 red = 1450ma
I'm getting a few boards in the mail soon (Luke ROTJ, Mace, Vader ESB) - I'll test them out with the multimeter too and post specs
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Humm, this dosent sound right, MR boards are susposed to be putting out less than 1A.
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you can get a little more Mah to the led by using more power, but as it has been said before, mr boards can't take that much power (6v I think is about their limit) before the magic smoke appears. Also it seems some boards for whatever reason will have a better output then others. I think it was judge that had 2 luke boards and one was weaker then the other.
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Right, I've always heard the same thing, but I am giving this board less than 6v and they are performing - maybe the last line of these boards are made with a few different parts... or maybe I got a one-of-a-kind board...
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Whoa Nelly...almost 2 amps with 4AA and blue/green Lux 3's? I didnt know MR boards could do that and thats rather serious overdriving for blue/green Lux IIIs isnt it? Are they a lot brighter? Any heat or reliability issues you've noticed?
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I just ran into a Mace MR board last night that put out a whopping...
137mA
Wow, huh?
Yeah, I'm on the hunt for a new one.
These results are not surprising. Some MR boards do put out some good current, some don't.
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I still don't understand why the same MR board would put out different currents for different LEDs. What would make an LED "pull" more current from the board? Granted, I don't understand circuits and electronics very well either.
Judge, did you measure the Mace board as it was powering an LED?
I just ran into a Mace MR board last night that put out a whopping...
137mA
Wow, huh?
Yeah, I'm on the hunt for a new one.
These results are not surprising. Some MR boards do put out some good current, some don't.
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Yes, I did. I had my multimeter in series with the LED and the board (so the multimeter was completing the circuit and would light (sic) the LED)
My batteries were brand new, and all connections on the board were checked thoroughly. It was just a bad board.
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You know, I wonder, I have 5 boards and all of them are putting out super high ma output - 1 Luke ROTJ, 2 Mace, 1 Vader ESB, 1 Luke ANH
Maybe I'm really lucky... or maybe the standard is what these 5 boards are doing?
Here are the videos of their performance - I assume the mace is a little lower because of the diodes interrupting the initial voltage input:
http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=14036.0
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Hi Xsaber,
First of all, thanks for your tests and bringing this to everyone's attention. I find it very interesting.
So, you're saying that the Red Lux III is pulling out more current from the same battery pack (4.5V)because it requires less forward voltage (2.9V) than the Blue Lux III (3.8V)? I think I understand that concept.
If this is correct, then the voltage requirement of the LED combined with the battery voltage is really the only determining factor for the current output on the MR board. If this is correct (and its hard for my brain to understand this stuff easily without alot of repitition and clarification- sorry), then why do people have the impression that MR boards only put out around 900 mA? It seems that the MR boards are not really limiting current at all because when you increase the voltage (like adding another AA) or use a LED that requires less forward voltage, then the current goes higher.
Am I correct in my understanding that a board like Crystal Focus (or even a buckpuck) will put out the set current regardless of the LED (regulate current)? Doesn't matter if it's a Blue Lux V or a Red Lux III or if the battery pack is 7.2V or 11V, if the board is set for 700mA, then the LED will "see" 700mA?
I've just assumed from what I've read that an MR board will only give around 900mA max regardless of the LED and battery configuration as if it was regulated to give no more than 1A (like a buckpuck set for below 1A).
I really need to test my MR boards now (actually everybody should do it to see if they get similar results - test a red Lux III if you have it).
Maybe people just assumed that MR boards put out around 900mA max because they only tested their board with a Blue or Green Lux III with the standard 4.5V battery pack (which is about what your tests got).
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I kinda remember Ultra giving Ionsabers a 'whupping like a redheaded stepchild' because Ionsabers was saying he used K2s that were brighter than LuxIIIs in his conversions and Ultra said that was wrong because K2s were actually dimmer than Lux III with MR boards because the MR boards didnt supply enough current to run them optimally...or words to that effect [apologies to Ultra if I have misremembered, misunderstood, or mischaracterized his position but I think it was something like that?] but now with results like these I'm wondering if maybe MR boards could drive K2s at full 1500 milliamp current afterall with use of a higher voltage 4 cell battery solution? Maybe Ultra was right about conversions because those were using the standard MR 3 battery pack but perhaps it was because of that pack not the board itself that we thought MR boards couldnt support K2s optimally?
Does anyone have a MR board, 4AA NIMH pack, multimeter and K2 to check that??? [I have a Vader ESB board and K2 but no multimeter so cant test it myself]
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I have a green K2 and a Vader ESB that I could try and test (forward voltage 3.85V). Also a green Lux Rebel that I'll hook up also (forward voltage 3.15V). According to the theory, the Rebel should get a higher current due to lower forward voltage.
The K2 with the MR board and stock battery pack should only get under 1000mA current but with a 4xAA pack it should be able to drive the K2 properly (or more?).
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Sorry for the 2x post...
I just finished testing the green Rebel and green K2. The only "problem" is that I have two MR boards, one is an Anakin with 4xAAA and the other is a Vader ESB with the stock 3xAA pack. The problem is that I couldn't use both battery packs with one board (without a lot of work). I would have liked to try each board with both battery packs.
Anyway, here are my results:
K2 green with Vader/4.8V = 820 mA
K2 green with Anakin/6.3V = 1000 mA
Rebel green with Vader/4.8V = 1270 mA
Rebel green with Anakin/6.3V = 1250 mA (this should have been higher...I don't know why not)
Also noticed that the initial measurements were way over these by about 300 - 600 mA but quickly dropped and after about 20 seconds they "settled in" at the above measurements.
The K2 was underdriven but the Rebel was overdriven. This does match with the assertion that the lower the forward voltage, the more current it will get (Rebel fV is 3.1V and the K2 is 3.85V).
Well, do your own tests and see what you come up with. I wish I had a Red Lux III to test since those have a lower forward voltage (2.9V) and should be getting more current.
Thanks Xsaber for the tips.
I kinda remember Ultra giving Ionsabers a 'whupping like a redheaded stepchild' because Ionsabers was saying he used K2s that were brighter than LuxIIIs in his conversions and Ultra said that was wrong because K2s were actually dimmer than Lux III with MR boards because the MR boards didnt supply enough current to run them optimally...or words to that effect [apologies to Ultra if I have misremembered, misunderstood, or mischaracterized his position but I think it was something like that?] but now with results like these I'm wondering if maybe MR boards could drive K2s at full 1500 milliamp current afterall with use of a higher voltage 4 cell battery solution? Maybe Ultra was right about conversions because those were using the standard MR 3 battery pack but perhaps it was because of that pack not the board itself that we thought MR boards couldnt support K2s optimally?
Does anyone have a MR board, 4AA NIMH pack, multimeter and K2 to check that??? [I have a Vader ESB board and K2 but no multimeter so cant test it myself]
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Thanks very much Jedi-Diah very interesting results indeed...while I wouldnt want to jump to conclusions prematurely it looks like Ultra is correct about K2s and for some reason [higher forward V?] they are unable to draw the significantly higher currents that the Lux IIIs in X-SaberX's tests seem able to get the boards to produce for them...if so that is too bad for K2s but its still good news for those who like to overdrive LuxIIIs I guess...I do wonder though if Lux IIIs being so highly overdriven to almost double of spec are going to be reliable or risk 'blue smoke of death'?
I really wish I had a multimeter right now but once I pay for my Overlord US 2.0 install my saber budget is going to be tapped out for this month...so I really appreciate you checking this out for us...thanks again.
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I don't think Xsaber tested any K2s. The most interesting of his tests was the red III at 1500mA. That's perfect for a red III. Maybe I need to get a red III for my Vader board...
Hey, you can get a digital multimeter that will do all this for about $10.
Thanks very much Jedi-Diah very interesting results indeed...while I wouldnt want to jump to conclusions prematurely it looks like Ultra is correct about K2s and for some reason [higher forward V?] they are unable to draw the significantly higher currents that the Lux IIIs in X-SaberX's tests seem able to get the boards to produce for them...if so that is too bad for K2s but its still good news for those who like to overdrive LuxIIIs I guess...I do wonder though if Lux IIIs being so highly overdriven to almost double of spec are going to be reliable or risk 'blue smoke of death'?
I really wish I had a multimeter right now but once I pay for my Overlord US 2.0 install my saber budget is going to be tapped out for this month...so I really appreciate you checking this out for us...thanks again.
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Only $10.00? cool I'll have to get one next time I go in to the city then ;D
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So, you're saying that the Red Lux III is pulling out more current from the same battery pack (4.5V)because it requires less forward voltage (2.9V) than the Blue Lux III (3.8V)? I think I understand that concept.
Yes
If this is correct, then the voltage requirement of the LED combined with the battery voltage is really the only determining factor for the current output on the MR board. If this is correct (and its hard for my brain to understand this stuff easily without alot of repitition and clarification- sorry), then why do people have the impression that MR boards only put out around 900 mA? It seems that the MR boards are not really limiting current at all because when you increase the voltage (like adding another AA) or use a LED that requires less forward voltage, then the current goes higher.
I've heard the same thing, that is why I posted this thread - because I was noticing a difference
Am I correct in my understanding that a board like Crystal Focus (or even a buckpuck) will put out the set current regardless of the LED (regulate current)? Doesn't matter if it's a Blue Lux V or a Red Lux III or if the battery pack is 7.2V or 11V, if the board is set for 700mA, then the LED will "see" 700mA?
Essentially, yes. The CF does vary a little bit. For example, if you power a 3.8v LED with a 7.2v pack (which puts out 8.4v at full charge), it will probably read at 1250ma when you set it to give out 1500ma because it intelligently monitors how to best drive the LED given the operating parameters.
Erv' wrote this to me:
Instant consuption of current depends on the batt voltage versus the forward voltage of the board. The closer you get to the luxeon forward voltage, the more in "direct drive" you are. When you reach the forward voltage (like 3.7V for a green, for instance), you'll read 1.5A on the multimeter. But at 8V, you read less, while the brightness remains the same.
Maybe people just assumed that MR boards put out around 900mA max because they only tested their board with a Blue or Green Lux III with the standard 4.5V battery pack (which is about what your tests got).
I though this might be true as well
I don't think Xsaber tested any K2s. The most interesting of his tests was the red III at 1500mA. That's perfect for a red III. Maybe I need to get a red III for my Vader board...
I actually did test a green K2 and got the same performance as a lux 3. So at least the board I have are perfect for driving K2s, although I've always been unimpressed by K2's performance...
Also, rebels have a lower forward voltage and that is why you are getting a higher current performance out of them...
One question for Jedi-Diah - did you strip the negative wires (the rainbow of colors) coming out of the MR board nice and long? I've found that sometimes one or more leads can be missed and thus lower the voltage.
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Xsaber,
Thanks for your detailed answers. It will take me a while before I really understand what Erv wrote but it all helps.
As for the negative wires, I stripped them all about a quarter of an inch and twisted them together then tinned them.
I did notice super high current initially but they quickly dropped until finally slowing down and settling at a certain range. The range they settled in at is what I recorded.
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My interests in this have piqued more after I have seen this video by Xwingband.
From what I gather as voltage goes up so does current but what I don't get is that for the most part all MR boards are powered by the same voltage packs. Maybe current from AA to AAA differ in some twilight zone realm that we don't know of.
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Very interesting thread, 'glad I stumbled on it.
I have one of the first Vader ESB conversions that Ultra did three years ago with a green K2 (stock MR board and 3 cell pack). I have a multimeter, and want to help contribute with some measurements. Would one of you please show me where to measure so I can post some readings of my own? I'm not that familiar with the MR board.
Graci
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here is a diagram I made:
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi296.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm200%2Fxoliilox%2Fmultimeter.jpg&hash=aa42222ab9ea90317951e81e30047d3a59af6381) (http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm200/xoliilox/?action=view¤t=multimeter.jpg)
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I just tested my new Red Lux III with an MR Vader ESB board and MR battery/speaker pack with Energizer Lithium e2 (not brand new but still strong - about 4.5V).
1630mA and heatsink getting slightly warm after about 10 sec.
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I know this thread has been dormant for a bit, but I was wondering if any of the tests were "continued" for longer than the few seconds needed to get multimeter readings. Meaning: did anyone leave these "over-driving" setups permanently installed for normal use, and if so, were there any further problems?
I have some new Joe-Jedi boards I want to experiment with, but I'd prefer to not fry them right away, if someone else has already done further experiments...
Thanks!
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The above setup (Vader MR board with red Lux III) is still in use. I use it all the time. It's great. Very bright, red saber. Heat is not a problem especially if your heatsink is connected to your metal hilt in some way.
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I've made many sabers with mr boards driving LEDs at 1500+ma. No problems whatsoever ;)