Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi

[anakin2000]

its actually up for debate right now as to whether or not it was actually benicio del toro's character. im not sure myself but if it is mark, he doesnt sound the same saying that line as he does the earlier "breathe...what do you see?"

There is no debate, Mark Hamill himself stated at Celebration that Rian Johnson had him narrate the trailer.

yeah, read that a day or two after posting that comment. oh well

[WEDGE ANTILLES]

Is it just me or anyone else annoyed when folks use "Disney" as their excuse for how they feel about any of the new content?

Disney does not make Star Wars.  Lucasfilm does...and as such anything made by Lucasfilm IS canon.

Lucasfilm Ltd. made the entire "EU" which is now 'legends'.   

so... no...     anything made by lucasfilm is not always canon.





for 40 years the definition was thus:   stories written by GL were canon.   stories written by [NOT GL] were not canon.

*shrug*

in order for Disney to label their "Nu Star Wars" as "canon" , we must FIRST re-define the entire definition of canon. LOL   

(read: George Orwell "1984") :P

 
 


^^ it's clever.   but in the end, it's just marketing.   

they are deftly afraid that the audience won't embrace what they're doing.  so they MUST insist that WE call it "canon".

-=============-

consider : Kylo's scar.

The HoloFeed ? Kylo Ren's Appearance Change in The Last Jedi

Rian Johnson has moved the location of Kylo's scar.   why?  because he's Rian Johnson.  and he didn't like it.

I guess Johnson doesn't care much about continuity.  he's more of an impressionist.  his words on the matter:

"It was my decision to slightly adjust it, and that was my justification. It honestly looked goofy running straight up the bridge of his nose".



 
 
 

so now , I must ask :  which is the CANON version of Kylo's scar?

is it the scar on his eye?  (episode 8)  or the scar on his nose? (episode 7)

(( only ONE of these can be "CANON" ))



 


GL was VERY careful to match anakin's injuries to the metal skeleton we see in ROTJ in the brief flashes when vader gets zapped by lighting. that's why obi-wan managed to cut off 2 legs and 1 arm in a single swing, like JFK's magic bullet.. because ROTJ had already shown vader to have no legs and no arms, during the brief flashes in ROTJ where we see his skeleton, and Lucas wanted to match up his injuries for the sake of continuity. (and lets' face it, nobody would really notice those lightning flashes of skeleton anyways, and any extra injuries in ROTJ could be easily explained in the 20 year gap between films).

it's.. interesting.. to see that the new SW directors are not as 'anal' as GL , when it comes to creating their new version of SW continuity (aka:"canon").   

I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing -- ((to abandon the rigid notion of "continuity", in favor of 'artful impressionism' on the part of some random "hired-director"!?)) --  time will tell.



 

I guess the point here is , the new Disney SW can CALL ITSELF whatever it wants.   LOL

as long as we can ALL recognize , there IS a difference between GL"s "canon" star wars, and Disney's new "impressionist" star wars (which cares more about action-figure-aesthetics, than story-telling-continuity aka: "canon"). 

(( ie : "it looks goofy" suddenly trumps "story continuity" under Disney's New Canon!?  whut!?  <--- I'm not really sure WHAT to call this anymore -- but I KNOW it's a different animal, than GL's "old canon")) LOL

 

cheers!

[Onli-Won Kanomi]

for 40 years the definition was thus:   stories written by GL were canon.   stories written by [NOT GL] were not canon.

C'mon Wedge you know that isn't quite correct; while it may be true that for most of those 40 years officially licensed "stories written by [NOT GL} were not" G-canon it was 'officially' considered by Lucasfilm that licensed stories written by other authors like in the EU were still considered as canon to various lesser degrees [e.g. "c-canon" and "s-canon" etc.] as long as they didnt directly conflict with anything established onscreen in G canon and were NOT considered "not canon" until recent anti-EU revisions to canon after the sale to Disney.

Its quite clear imo why GL wanted to destroy the EU; because other better MORE ADULT writers managed to slowly over the EU pull a TROPE REVERSAL on George's 'original vision' [self admittedly intended to be suitable for CHILDREN] where it became 'canon' when the EU still was canon that THE EMPIRE WERE THE GOOD GUYS [this was mostly the work of Drew Karpashyn in KOTOR and his Bane books leveraging details from Outbound Flight and The New Jedi Order to construct a LOGICAL rationale for both the rise of the Empire and the construction of the Death Stars - superweapons intended to defeat Yuuzhaan Vong invadion Worldships that Sidious knew via Chiss contacts and Bane's holocron who knew via Revan's holocron who knew via Canderous Ordo that an extragalactic invasion of unknown but demonstrated superior forces was coming].

GL just couldnt stand that Drew Karpashyn MADE SENSE OF THE RISE OF THE EMPIRE and everything it did in a SMARTER better more adult way than GL did - Karpashyn EMBARRASSED GL with the juvenile stupidity of GLs 'vision' by FIXING ITS ILLOGIC for ADULT fans...

...and George's big fat EGO just couldnt stand that his juvenile 'vision' for his 'creation' was being IMPROVED by someone who was an obviously smarter and better writer than he is...soooo he had to DESTROY the 'canon'-icity of the EU even if that meant selling out to Disney who might take it in their own 'other direction' than GL's original vision in the future...

...but for NOW the EU MUST DIE! even if that SOMEONE ELSE doing what GL had said he WOULDNT ever do - episodes VII-IX - because "Star Wars is the tragedy of Darth Vader and when he dies it is over, the Emperor doesnt get cloned, Luke doesnt get married..." which was fine for GL to leave things at until he realized that the EU had made the Sith the 'necessary-evil-for-a-greater-good' guys building big baddddd Death Stars to defeat a GREATER EVIL only they knew about while the DUMB Jedi and Rebellion actually WEAKENED the SW Galaxy eventually causing TRILLIONS OF UNNECESSARY DEATHS in the Vong War because of their lack of "the vision thing" and commitment to oversimplistic moralizing...

...so the most important thing that had to be done was make sure that Episodes VII - IX would be made in order to UNDO the Vong War which would then remove the LOGICAL reason for Death Stars thus reverting Sw to George's original 'vision' of the Empire being just stupidly eeeeeeevil for no reason so that SW would be 'fit only for children and morons' again...thus undoing George's HUMILIATION at being shown up as a weak juvenile writer by a better one [or several] EU writers.

[I imagine if Roddenberry - who had as big an ego as GL and equally flawed personal morality if you read some of his biographies - had lived to see what other better more adult writers did to vastly improve Star Trek's milieu illogic and other flaws during the smartest most adult Trek series - Star Trek Deep Space Nine - then Roddenberry might have been similarly outraged at the departures of DS9 form his 'personal vision' but fortunatley since he'd already sold out Trek long before he couldnt have stopped Paramount from inverting MANY Trek tropes in DS9 the way GL could, did, and now HAS 'ruined' intelligent-SW in order to REGRESS SW back into dumb fantasy for kiddies and dim bulbs that is all GL ever wants SW to be - sadly].

Yes the canonicity of the EU established by Lucasfilms own decades-accepted system of LEVELS of canon [not the binary 'canon'/not-canon' you mis-stated] had to be destroyed in GL's opinion so that we MUST all return to GLs original juvenile vision of 'good guy Rebels and bad guy Imperials' where everything the Empire did no matter how illogical - like building Death Stars for no logical reason absent an imminent threat that required them - wouldnt have to be reasonably explained as Karpashyn did but could just be 'hand waved' by "the Imperials are EEEEEEVIL!" so as to not make the lil kiddies have to consider any 'shades of grey' in the same way that GL ruined Special Edition ANH with "Greedo shot first/at the same time" so as to not have the lil kiddies see any possibly confusing MORAL COMPLEXITY that they WILL see when they grow up - even at the expense of INSULTING THE INTELLIGENCE of those of us who were his ORIGINAL fans who HAVE grown up.
 

INFANTILIZING one's artwork is NOT a sign of a TRUE artist.

Selling out to The Evil Mouse and destroying the EU so that Star Wars can be 'safe' [intellectually/morally non-challenging] for kiddies and muggle audiences was NOT any mere "marketing" ploy - it is that; the pandering to the 'casual' and foreign market audiences in both Disney SW films is sadly apparent though too common in other movies these days - but its also a very clear sign of GLs emotional immaturity and insecurity that he had to destroy the work of other artists who created better 'sandcastles' in HIS 'sandbox' that made his look 'small' and thus him look 'weak' until he kickled over everyone elses sandcastles and threw them out of his sandbox and told everyone there were never any other sandcastles in the box but his all his...

...well that sounds postitively DESPOTIC eh...

...hmmmm...wasnt there an ancient Chinese emperor who tried to destroy all the Chinese "classics" [including the "Analects" of Kung Fu Tzu/Confucious and the "Tao Te Ching" - original source of many aspects of the Force btw - of Lao Tzu] so that that Emperor could pretend that 'history began with him alone'?

Historical revisionism is a sign of insecure ruler eh? Then similarly artistic revisionism is a sign of an insecurie artist.

Some GL-worshipping 'purists' may want to think that "only what is written by George COUNTS" and certainly anyone is always free to pick and choose what they decide 'counts' as canon FOR THEM and they can certainly choose to NOT consider Episodes VII-IX 'canon' because "by George ol chap it isn't by George so it doesnt count either!" if they like and I'm FINE with that - Freedom rocks eh! but it is DISINGENUOUS at best and perhaps far worse the artistic equivalent of historical revisionism to pretend NOW that that the EU was NEVER canon when by MANY contemporaneous sources UNTIL the sale to The Mouse the EU clearly was within A CERTAIN LEVEL of canon UNTIL it was retconned [revisionism] out of canon into "Legends".

If someone doesnt like the EU for the same reasons as GL hates it or other reasons of their own they can now safely disregard it as non-canon Legends [and because of free will always could really] but to pretend it was NEVER canon simply because it wasn't G-canon is just incorrect.

[Bruce Wayne]

I'm just going to say this: if I'm understanding correctly, the notion of George Lucas selling Star Wars to Disney to somehow accomplish his "master plan" of destroying the previous EU is just...I don't even have the right words.  I'm not touching that because I wouldn't even know what to start with. 

I look at it like this: Disney thought "Should we carry through all of the previous EU material into these new sets of movies or basically start from scratch?"  They did what was logical from a business standpoint, which was regard the previous EU as Legends (or "non-canon") and start anew for simplicity's sake.  Let's face it: the previous EU was not flawless by any remote stretch.  There was a lot of bad/mediocre stuff, contradictions, and boneheaded decisions.  However, there was a lot of good stuff as well that I, as well as many others, genuinely enjoyed.  But instead of sifting through the 30-odd years of previous EU material (some of which bordered on some overthought fan-fiction drivel) and cherry-picking what to keep and what to get rid of when setting up these new movies, Disney chose to basically overwrite it all.  Did it upset me when it happened?  Of course, as it did to many other Star Wars fans.  However, as time has gone on, I've gotten over it and have thought about it from a different perspective.  In the end, I feel like Disney made the decision that could be considered as a "necessary evil," meaning that no one wanted the previous EU to be made "non-canon," but it logically had to be done for a variety of valid reasons. 

Plus, just because Disney regarded the previous EU as "non-canon," it doesn't mean that characters, plot points, or events can't be utilized or haven't been utilized or adapted in this new canon.  Some examples of this would be the introduction of Thrawn, Rukh, Bane, and a few other characters from the previous EU to the current canon timeline, as well as the adaption of different plot points and events that have yet to fully develop (Han and Leia having a son that fell to the dark side, Luke making a new Jedi academy, etc.).  It's not like the old EU is "dead" by any stretch.  It's still there to be enjoyed and read and Disney is free to bring in fan-favorite characters and events and breath new life into them by adapting them to this new canon.

That's all I've really got to say on the subject.  I'm looking forward to what they bring to the table for The Last Jedi.  They had a near impossible job to bring in the old and the new together for TFA (both the characters and the fans), so I'm thinking that now that TFA is out of the way, they can focus on expanding this new trilogy in new and exciting ways.  Just roll with the punches, people, and try to enjoy things more. 

[Darth Chasm]

Star Wars Can(n)on 

[Scruffy Nerf Herder]

The Kylo Ren scar response is lackadaisical at best.  He has a scar, it's on the right side of his face and goes vertically from cheek to above eye.  That is now cannon...it makes zero difference if it's 2 cm left or right.

[Obi_1]

I wholeheartedly disagree that Luke will die in Ep VII.  The "last Jedi" is apropos as Luke is really the last person in existence who is trained in the Jedi arts (as far as we know).  Rey is not a Jedi, she is "force sensitive" or a "force user" until she is trained in the Jedi way.

Also, remember that Snoke specifically called Luke "the last Jedi" in TFA.

Which is true if you consider that all his padawans he taught were killed or lost to the Dark Side. So it was stating the obvious from Snoke.

I felt that with the first Trailer Disney managed what they seem to excel in: either stating the obvious or laying false tracks. In R1 nearly the whole trailer material did not make an appearance in the movie and I think they will continue this practice, so that when the movie comes out, no matter how many minutes of trailers were seen, the story will still be largely unknown. Especially in this first trailer I did not find ANYTHING of interest, there was no new piece of information.

[Scruffy Nerf Herder]

I wholeheartedly disagree that Luke will die in Ep VII.  The "last Jedi" is apropos as Luke is really the last person in existence who is trained in the Jedi arts (as far as we know).  Rey is not a Jedi, she is "force sensitive" or a "force user" until she is trained in the Jedi way.

Also, remember that Snoke specifically called Luke "the last Jedi" in TFA.

Which is true if you consider that all his padawans he taught were killed or lost to the Dark Side. So it was stating the obvious from Snoke.

I felt that with the first Trailer Disney managed what they seem to excel in: either stating the obvious or laying false tracks. In R1 nearly the whole trailer material did not make an appearance in the movie and I think they will continue this practice, so that when the movie comes out, no matter how many minutes of trailers were seen, the story will still be largely unknown. Especially in this first trailer I did not find ANYTHING of interest, there was no new piece of information.

Rogue 1 trailer was not a ruse or a deflection.  The trailer was built before the rewrites and therefore included scenes that were later cut during editing.  This was also covered by the Gareth Edwards in that those scenes were cherry picked by those who make trailers to show highlights.

[Psab Keel]

Just based on the teaser it looks as though they aren't going for a soft reboot of Empire, which I am all for.  I could forgive TFA for being a soft reboot of ANH because of the new characters and just trying to get most of the fanbase back on board after the divisive prequels.

Disney was right to discard the EU as the source material for their new films.  There were only a handful of those books that were any good.  Not to mention how limiting it would have been creatively to stick to that as their source, plus NO surprises for the people who'd read them! 

The idea that Lucas sold Star Wars to Disney so that he could "wipe the slate clean" by erasing the EU is utter and total NONSENSE!  If he wanted total control over the story and continuity, he would have never sold Lucasfilm and kept making Star Wars movies the way HE wanted to.  Even when he sells his LIFE'S WORK over essentially to "the fans" people STILL hate him for it?  How is that fair?  He sold his creation, knowing that Star Wars needed to outlive him, and what did the fans do, they vilified him for it. 

Does anyone HONESTLY think that George Lucas is so vain and insecure that he has nothing better to do than read Star Wars novels (most of which are nothing more than crap fan fiction) and cry about it?  Let's be realistic here.  The fact that people get so up in arms over every decision that Lucas makes is part of the reason he sold his creation.  He wanted to be free of the unfair vitriol that had been aimed at him personally.  Does that mean that I agree with every decision the guy has made creatively?  Absolutely not!  But in all fairness, he's a human being and I would certainly have mixed opinions about my fans if all they did was crap on me for every choice I made.  I GET why he quit making movies. 

I'm happy to see that The Last Jedi looks as though they may be taking some risks.  We need that if the Star Wars Universe is going to survive as a franchise.  Otherwise what's the point?

If people are SO upset that Disney owns Star Wars and that they are "ruining" it, there's a simple solution.  DON'T WATCH THE NEW MATERIAL.  Vote with your wallet and stop buying the merchandise.  I hated the prequels, but nothing will unmake them.  That's life.  You got to get over it some time.

[Onli-Won Kanomi]

Clearly Lucas DOES read SW novels [and the comic books too] from his comments about "the Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married". And just as clearly from those same comments he DISLIKES what other [some not all of whom are better] writers have done with his "life's work". I suspect he UNCONSCIOUSLY hates Star Wars for BECOMING his "life's work"; one can imagine his inner true self crying out "but I wanted to be a SERIOUS filmmaker!" but of course he can't SAY that [perhaps not even face it himself ocnsciously] so instead he 'acts out' against it by [again perhaps unconsciously] 'sabotaging' it. It certainly wouldnt be the first time in Human History [and not only in the sphere of art] that a 'creator' came to hate their own 'creation' and the 'burden' on their life of its success and try to 'free themselves' by ruining their own work. In such a subconscious its not about 'losing control' of his work the creator fears but the losing control of his own life because of the work he hates. George has shown many signs but that particular comment was the most telling and classic example.

George Lucas is a CHILD. He created a beautiful myth FOR CHILDREN - by his own admission - and because HE is ONLY capable of creating for children he HATED when ADULT writers made it into something more SOPHISTICATED than his childlike mind can ever be. His utter incompetence at writing emotionally mature dialogue and characterization in EpII: AOTC proves why only the most rabid fanboi likes that film and most adult audiences laughed/cringed at it. Seriously the Ani/Padme 'love' scenes are PAINFULLY awful, amongst the worst ever put to film. Because child-George can't comprehend adult Love [as his own personal life demonstrates] he cant begin to write about it competently so instead he makes Ani getting married the ULTIMATE REASON for his 'fall' and the destruction of the entire Jedi Order - are you kidding me George? What The Force?

Think about it: George hates the idea that LUKE GETS MARRIED to the point he has to DENY that ever happened in 'his' creation/universe - a psychiatrist would find that spectacularly revealing about George's own psyche esp considering that Luke [Lucas] Skywalker is his 'alter ego'.

One could go on endlessly about Georges' 'dysfunctional' relationship with his 'creation'...but it really isn't surprising that he has wanted a long time to 'get out from under' it so he could try to make 'serious' films [Flyboys? really George THAT was what you went with?] and be 'respected as an artist' like Coppola and Scorcese and Spielberg who are all taken seriously because they ARENT children and their 'life's work' isnt FOR children.

Unconsciously GEORGE HATES STAR WARS whether he realizes it or not. He probably can't admit it to himself but even if he could he'd never admit it to us because WE fans do LOVE it.

Which is why some of us fans who love SW might want IT to GROW UP even if HE CAN'T...and some fans who got the chance to write in the EU tried desperately to MAKE it into something 'grown up' even though that would make George hate it more. So THEY made Luke "grow up" and get married even though George HATES the idea.

THEY gave the Empire a logical raison d'etre and a sensible rationale for building Death Stars that George never could because he's not only an emotional child but a political naif who cribs his stories' politics from ancient history books and modern headlines without actually understanding even the basics of realpolitik [GL would make a weaksauce Sith Lord lol].

The Empire AS GEORGE WROTE IT NEVER MADE SENSE but he didnt care because SW was for children...until those children grew up and some began to ask questions - and others got jobs writing the EU and ANSWERED THEM as GL couldn't.

Yes you are CORRECT that much of the EU is in effect 'fan fiction' - but its fiction by professional writers who are also fans who were HIRED by LFL to write in the SW universe and because they ARE fans took it upon themselves to FIX Star Wars. To make it GROW UP, as they had, from what they first loved as children into something they could still love as adults; thats "fan fiction" of the BEST kind.

Yes a lot of the EU was dreck but 90% of EVERYTHING is dreck if there is any appreciable quantity of it - do you think the 1200+ books of the Arthurian canon were all epic as La Morte D'Arthur? Nope most were dreck too...ah but the GOOD ONES...

Zahn, Traviss, Karpashyn and others created some brilliant adult contributions that fixed and GREW the SW mythos...certainly better than anything GL did in the prequels.

George clearly HATED that.

So their work had to be destroyed to spare GL further embarrassment and most importantly his psyche from the realization he was a WEAK writer even of stories in his own milieu creation - the 'freeing future writers' tripe was just an EXCUSE for trashing the EU; a GOOD writer can write AROUND other writers contributions as any writers who collaborate always do [Wedge has previously pointed out how GLs anti-collaboration sentiment on the Prequels worked to their detriment] so their was never any reason to throw out the EU - unless you want to say that JJ Abrams is such a weak writer he couldnt write around Karpashyn, Traviss, Zahn et al contributions? As much as I hate the Big Lie ending of Lost and esp Star Trek Into Dumbness ;) I'm sure JJ could have written TFA with the EU in place.

In some ways we might hope that the Disney sale could lead to more adult stories in the future - but the nature of the modern media megacorporation 'consolidated' film industry pandering to muggle/'mainstream' audiences to maximize ROI in the foreign markets [particularly China - notice the effect that had on Rogue One eh] makes that unlikely as the first two post-George films seem to indicate...oh they might get 'darker' in 'tone' to SEEM more 'adult' instead of 'childish' but that's just surface appearance not actual true intellectual/emotional maturity of content.

But I hope to be proven wrong in Ep VIII TLJ...time will tell...

 

[anakin2000]

can this thread be re-directed to actually talking about the last jedi instead of whining about movies you don't like?

[Onli-Won Kanomi]

Please feel free to do so. :)

OK back to Ep. VIII then; The Last Jedi is actually a great opportunity to turn SW back towards adult storytelling. If you've read Wedge's brilliant insights on this site into the failings of the Old Republic Jedi Order you could see there is an opportunity therein for great writing if the writers of TLJ posit that Luke himself has reasoned somewhat similarly. If LUKE has similarly realized that the Jedi Order became a destructive part of the problem and his own 'failure' with restarting a new Jedi Order [pun intended] and Ben/Kylo has proven to him a Jedi Order can't work [in his opinion] then it would be entirely reasonable for Luke himself to believe that the Jedi must end and say so.

There IS a lot of potential for The Last Jedi to be a GOOD Star Wars story...PLEASE Disney *in Picard voice ;)* Make it so! ;)

[Psab Keel]

I think your assessment of Lucas as a person is reaching, but to each their own opinion.  The Empire as Lucas created it in the Original Trilogy made perfect sense thematically.  Again, we will just have to agree to disagree. 

The Last Jedi is a nice opportunity for Lucasfilm to try and push the story into new territory and hopefully give the fans insight into the Force and the mythos that hasn't been explored on film yet.  The films may have been marketed to kids, but the themes have always been so powerful because they resonate with people on a basic human level, whether you are 9 or 89.  Storytelling doesn't have to be complex to be considered adult. 

Perhaps what Luke has been searching for is the means to live in harmony with the Force, rather than use it's power for combat.  It makes me wonder if the guilt of all of his lost students caused him to doubt the need to even bother teaching anyone, or if there is more to it than just that.  People keep talking about this idea of a grey Jedi, one who neither fully embraces the dark, or the light, but what that means for the story I have no idea.  I'm assuming that good will win in the end, but how that will happen I don't know.  You figure the Republic is eliminated and now all that is left as far as the galactic power struggle is the First Order and the Resistance, which seem to be fairly small and more equally matched to one another. 

[Onli-Won Kanomi]

Perhaps what Luke has been searching for is the means to live in harmony with the Force, rather than use it's power for combat...

...You figure the Republic is eliminated and now all that is left as far as the galactic power struggle is the First Order and the Resistance, which seem to be fairly small and more equally matched to one another.

I rather like that idea and hope you are correct. Maybe the Force 'pushed back' [whether by 'will' of The Force or as a more nonpersonalized Newtonian-like counter-reaction] against being used by both Sith and Jedi alike and now needs Force users to be in harmony with the Force itself instead of 'opposing' each other as organized factions or 'orders' which has been the Jedi/Sith practice for millenia...or maybe the very idea of Force USERS is part of the problem and Luke has realized that; either premise could be a basis for good stories if the writers choose to go those directions. Or maybe they'll go another way entirely. I just hope they write it in a way that makes sense in the film itself so we dont have to wait for the DVD release to see 'deleted scenes' to finally make sense of things or buy novels where writers explain illogical aspects the theatrical release didnt bother to in the movie itself. I'll keep hoping for the best...

Oh and I'm not sure if the republic has been entirely eliminated - yes its leadership has been what we called first strike decapitated in the Bad Ol Days [did they have a Designated Survivor out-of-system to restore authority in event of attack? one would think that after the object lesson of Alderaan no governing body anywhere in the GFFA would ever again neglect that basic precaution but who knows?] but even if its C3 infrastructure is totally destroyed after TFA the large number of New Republic member worlds would still maintain a HUGE industrial capacity that could be reorganized to restore Republican institutions as soon as new planetary representatives could reconvene a new Senate somewhere else. Yes there would be a window of opportunity for the First Order to exploit until then but it wouldnt last forever as an 'elimination' of the Republic more like a 'pause'. But plenty of mischief could be accomplished in that time hmmmm...

[Psab Keel]

True.  I meant to suggest that with the central leadership of the Republic being wiped out, it would be ample opportunity for the First Order to strike while the worlds that depend on the Republic were reeling from the loss.

It will certainly be interesting to see if that idea is the direction they take the story about the Jedi living in harmony with the Force rather than manipulate it for their own ends.  I like that idea.  Though how that might play itself on film I'm not really sure.

Luke does ask Ben in ANH if the Force controls your actions and Ben responds by saying partially, but it also  obeys your commands. 

Perhaps by USING the Force it causes unbalance, therefore Luke has renounced to use it because he has seen it's destructive power and that in order to end the galactic conflict once and for all, it must be forgotten. 

It certainly would up the stakes for Rey and other others to figure out a way to stop Snoke and Kylo Ren without giving in to the temptation to USE the Force.  We shall see.