fiduciary

Author Topic: Petit Crouton vs Crystal Focus 5 Sound Font Popping  (Read 17928 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline erv

  • Plecter Labs Inc. "Keeper of the Buttered Toast"
  • Manufacturer
  • Master Force User
  • *
  • Posts: 4920
  • Formerly known as Irvin PLECTER
    • Plecter Labs - Props Electronics
Re: Petit Crouton vs Crystal Focus 5 Sound Font Popping
« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2011, 12:40:55 PM »
The hum loop came directly from TFU2.. .Does that mean that the people who made it mixed it improperly?

audio engines in the game do more complex playback. First off, the cues are probably not the beginning or the end, and there's cross fading.

Juan : if you have a moment, please send me those sounds with clicks so that I can diagnose if it's related to the nature of the sound or the CF audio engine. Ideally a complete sound font full of clicks will make my day  ;)

Offline Juansith

  • Master Force User
  • *****
  • Posts: 697
  • The Leeroy Jenkins of the bidding wars
Re: Petit Crouton vs Crystal Focus 5 Sound Font Popping
« Reply #31 on: August 29, 2011, 12:47:17 PM »
Sure, ill send them to you in a moment  ;)




Offline MACE WINDU

  • Formerly known as Nightstorm
  • JEDI/ALLIANCE Master MODERATOR
  • Master Force User
  • **
  • Posts: 1369
  • Do you have a problem with purple?
Re: Petit Crouton vs Crystal Focus 5 Sound Font Popping
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2011, 12:55:50 PM »
Well today ive found that clicks can be idiots.
First, i realized that by adding or removing one ms or two ms to the duration of the tail is normally the solution for the clicks.
I was working with a swing that had a click at the tail, so i was adding one ms at a time and saving and then checking it with goldwave to see if the click was gone. So i added one ms that managed to eliminate the click, so i rerendered that same swing and saved it again and, guess what, the click appeared again, nothing changed, i just re rendered. And one save has a click and the other one doesnt.



Is this in the TFU2 or something else?


Offline ANAKIN SKYWALKER

  • Manufacturer VIP
  • Master Force User
  • *
  • Posts: 4959
  • Formerly Known as Alex Gordon
    • Evolution Arms
Re: Petit Crouton vs Crystal Focus 5 Sound Font Popping
« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2011, 12:59:28 PM »
something else.  He and I were just discussing it.  it is a pain. 


Offline Juansith

  • Master Force User
  • *****
  • Posts: 697
  • The Leeroy Jenkins of the bidding wars
Re: Petit Crouton vs Crystal Focus 5 Sound Font Popping
« Reply #34 on: August 29, 2011, 01:08:49 PM »
Im using my fonts in this case to solve this issue, i found some clicks in one of my fonts and since we were trying to figure this out, i decided to join you and fight those clicky suckas ;).

Erv, you got mail ;)




Offline PhoenixJedi

  • Mining Colony Members
  • Master Force User
  • *
  • Posts: 1509
    • Phoenix Sabers
Re: Petit Crouton vs Crystal Focus 5 Sound Font Popping
« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2011, 01:52:37 PM »
I need to get a CF5

I'm the only saber smith ever mentioned in the NY Times: http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=35163
My Sabers: Avenger & Defender (TCSS Pair), Ravager (SF Vanquish)
Check out my profile for my website, sound font samples and pictures of sabers i've built!
Note: All sales from me, once shipped, are final.

Offline Novastar

  • Manufacturer VIP
  • Master Force User
  • *
  • Posts: 1142
  • NCSCS - Sabercombat.com
    • DIAMOND DRAGONS: Humans stand, heroes fall--but DRAGONS are *Forever*...
Re: Petit Crouton vs Crystal Focus 5 Sound Font Popping
« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2011, 02:34:52 PM »
Is anyone even BEGINNING to fully comprehend the insanity + headaches of making ENTIRE VOLUMES (CDs) WORTH OF FONTS NOW??  :)  I hope so.
* Former creator and owner of SaberCombat
* CUSTOM SOUND FONT LIST --->
Click here for Nova's 100+ custom sound fonts!
* PERFORMANCE HIGHLIGHTS ---> Click here for Nova's saber performance work...
* DIAMOND DRAGONS ---> Diamond Dragons: A feature-length screenplay being developed by Matthew 'Novastar' Carauddo

I don't post often on forums anymore.  If you want to e-mail me: novastar1138@gmail.com, or visit me on Facebook:

Click here.

Offline ANAKIN SKYWALKER

  • Manufacturer VIP
  • Master Force User
  • *
  • Posts: 4959
  • Formerly Known as Alex Gordon
    • Evolution Arms
Re: Petit Crouton vs Crystal Focus 5 Sound Font Popping
« Reply #37 on: August 29, 2011, 02:47:19 PM »
I need to get a CF5

okay, 1st time is a joke, maybe even the second hint was a joke, but dude, no offense, no one is gonna hand you a v5 because you keep saying that.  Just so you know.   ;)

@novastar, I am beginning to understand the insanity, but I don't think I would ever fully understand it.  Just from making 14 boot sounds I spent 6 hours fading in and out and silence at the beginning and end, and saving as without metadata, and learning what metadata was, and throwing my saber out the window.  /jk.    WOW, I can't even imagine having to perfectly fade the hums mixed with the swings and clashes to the start of hum.wav.  but I know it is so much more complicated than that.  then multiply it by the 4 powerons, 2 poweroffs, 4 blasters, 8 swings, 8 clashes, and that is at least 26 times PER FONT.  Then you have do do it 12 more times and you have a compendium. 
« Last Edit: August 29, 2011, 03:00:26 PM by Alex Gordon »


Offline nartules

  • Master Force User
  • *****
  • Posts: 3630
Re: Petit Crouton vs Crystal Focus 5 Sound Font Popping
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2011, 03:33:09 PM »
Stop by the house and try out your fonts on heretic if you like (It's not leaving my site :)

No but seriously If I had a spare CF5 outside a saber right now I think I might be willing to let someone borrow it, after they faxed me 2 proofs of identification, a finger and retina scan and a sample of their DnA :)

Good luck on the hunt for a CF5 Pheonixjedi, I now how hard it is to test something when you don't have the right components :(


Time will bring the real end of our trial.  One day they'll be no remnants

Offline MACE WINDU

  • Formerly known as Nightstorm
  • JEDI/ALLIANCE Master MODERATOR
  • Master Force User
  • **
  • Posts: 1369
  • Do you have a problem with purple?
Re: Petit Crouton vs Crystal Focus 5 Sound Font Popping
« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2011, 04:19:45 PM »
Ok...first test run was successful.  I remixed the hum loop that 'Erv modified with all of the raw swings and I hear NOTHING that shouldn't be there.  Very happy.  Now on to the rest.


Offline MACE WINDU

  • Formerly known as Nightstorm
  • JEDI/ALLIANCE Master MODERATOR
  • Master Force User
  • **
  • Posts: 1369
  • Do you have a problem with purple?
Re: Petit Crouton vs Crystal Focus 5 Sound Font Popping
« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2011, 08:24:21 PM »
Alright, I think I've got it ;)

Nova's correct this can be a real pain.  Thank's to 'Erv's insight in picking out the sublte difference in the begining and end of the hum loop.  That was the key right there.  I've got it all remixed and tested on a CF5 and TFUII sounds sweet :D  Thanks of course once again to PhoenixJedi for extracting all of the audio from TFU2 to begin with and generously providing me the unmixed samples so that I could experiment on it lol.

@'Erv and JuanSith, I emailed you the final results I came up with.  I hope they're "final" anyway lol.


Offline erv

  • Plecter Labs Inc. "Keeper of the Buttered Toast"
  • Manufacturer
  • Master Force User
  • *
  • Posts: 4920
  • Formerly known as Irvin PLECTER
    • Plecter Labs - Props Electronics
Re: Petit Crouton vs Crystal Focus 5 Sound Font Popping
« Reply #41 on: August 29, 2011, 10:57:02 PM »
will check that,
thanks for the emails folks !

[edit]
got several sounds from JuanSith to compare (version with and without clicks).

here's an example of the clicks that are *actually* in those files, and you definitely hear them on the computer, even without headphones. Juan convention is to start the sound with a lower wave form and ends with a upper wave form, so they should match. He said he had to "remove a few ms of sound" to fix the click.

I'm posting those pics to show there's no "magic" or voodoo dance to execute naked on your workbench. In most of the case I've seen in the past 2 days, clicks were due either to the nature of sound (looping issue) or simply because the beginning or end of the file weren't clean enough.
In some cases, you need to remove just a few samples manually, sometimes I'll just edit the waveform by hand to get the zero crossing right

incorrect zero crossing / waveform glitch


waveform doesn't start at zero (not critical since it's an ignition sound). It's the ANH poweron2.wav
Looking more closely, the rough start (no fade in) of the sound is due to the mixed hum that overlaps with the beginning of the sound. So, some of the sound beginning can be either removed or get a short fade in.



ANH hum. Subtle (but easy to hear) click at the end of the hum, creating a pop when hum is looping.


so, again : just look at your waveforms, and forget about the click removal magic recipe (which consist of removing 1138 samples at the beginning or the end of the sound)  ;)

and if you don't hear those pops on your computer, use either one or the complete set of those :

- turn the AC off
- use headphones
- use "proper" speakers
- turn the volume of your amp to 11
- get new ears on ebay
« Last Edit: August 29, 2011, 11:52:52 PM by erv »

Offline PhoenixJedi

  • Mining Colony Members
  • Master Force User
  • *
  • Posts: 1509
    • Phoenix Sabers
Re: Petit Crouton vs Crystal Focus 5 Sound Font Popping
« Reply #42 on: August 30, 2011, 02:27:20 AM »
Stop by the house and try out your fonts on heretic if you like (It's not leaving my site :)

No but seriously If I had a spare CF5 outside a saber right now I think I might be willing to let someone borrow it, after they faxed me 2 proofs of identification, a finger and retina scan and a sample of their DnA :)

Good luck on the hunt for a CF5 Pheonixjedi, I now how hard it is to test something when you don't have the right components :(

Yeah, youd think a SB Audigy 2 ZS Platinum Pro, and a set of 75W Logitech speakers would do the trick. Cant even hear the pops on that.

I'm the only saber smith ever mentioned in the NY Times: http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=35163
My Sabers: Avenger & Defender (TCSS Pair), Ravager (SF Vanquish)
Check out my profile for my website, sound font samples and pictures of sabers i've built!
Note: All sales from me, once shipped, are final.

Offline MACE WINDU

  • Formerly known as Nightstorm
  • JEDI/ALLIANCE Master MODERATOR
  • Master Force User
  • **
  • Posts: 1369
  • Do you have a problem with purple?
Re: Petit Crouton vs Crystal Focus 5 Sound Font Popping
« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2011, 03:22:09 AM »
Well, like I was saying, I couldn't really "hear" them on my computer either.  They only really became audible when I loaded up the font on the CF5.  Now though it looks like its truly clean so it should be good for everything from CF5 down.  I didn't truly even keep track of how long I worked on it, but a rough guess would be 20 hours or so over three days?  So its not like it was an "Aha, here's the answer!" moment.  It was a lot of trial and error.  I was looking for a "pop" when 'Erv noticed it wasn't a pop at all but the transistion in pitch.  That allowed me to remix everything with a new "balanced" hum file.  That and I went back to Sound Forge 8 vs 10 because 10 wants to insert metadata no matter what you tell it.  At least that was my expierience.


Offline erv

  • Plecter Labs Inc. "Keeper of the Buttered Toast"
  • Manufacturer
  • Master Force User
  • *
  • Posts: 4920
  • Formerly known as Irvin PLECTER
    • Plecter Labs - Props Electronics
Re: Petit Crouton vs Crystal Focus 5 Sound Font Popping
« Reply #44 on: August 30, 2011, 04:15:58 AM »
Good luck on the hunt for a CF5 Pheonixjedi, I now how hard it is to test something when you don't have the right components :(

Yeah, youd think a SB Audigy 2 ZS Platinum Pro, and a set of 75W Logitech speakers would do the trick. Cant even hear the pops on that.

Nartrule is referring (right components) to the CF itself, not the audio equipment. I work on a laptop with an internal sound card (AC9x style) and a very mean pair of headphones.

That and I went back to Sound Forge 8 vs 10 because 10 wants to insert metadata no matter what you tell it.  At least that was my expierience.

still working on that. SF 10 stores "CDif" info at the end of the file even if meta data is disabled. Those are cut list / markers info. Doing a save as on the file usually suppresses that but it's still not good. Those CDif aren't even standard WAV subchunks
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 04:24:49 AM by erv »

 

retrousse