A message to correct some slanderous misinformation

[jedicri]

I for one would have preferred that this whole debacle to have been handled privately through PMs and whatnot.  Since DA is a member here, I think a more appropriate response should have been to PM him here at fx since Alan and Deanna believed that they were not welcome at IRA and thus could not directly address the issue there.   

Regardless of what's already been posted, and I say this as a member of both forums, I sincerely hope that all parties involved move forward to do whatever is necessary to resolve whatever "conflict" is perceived so we all can return to our regularly scheduled program of discussing sabers.

My 2 cents...

[Clark Kent]

anyone have a CEX for a CF 6 they would like to sell?

shoot me a PM.   :P

[Knight50]

hey Clark

I think you're in the wrong forum part  ;)

[jedicri]

anyone have a CEX for a CF 6 they would like to sell?

shoot me a PM.   :P

Nice one Cal, nice one --- pretty slick too!  ;)

[LUMINARA UNDULI]

Briefly as on phone in desert. Sunrider I respectfully disagree.  This was not simply someone's opinion.  The comments made were slanderous.  It was a very public post.  It needed to be refuted publicly.  It was also in poor taste.  We have other people's work cross our desk regularly.  Much of the work that crosses our desk is not up to our standards, with some being really bad. You do not see us ripping them apart here on FX.  That would be unprofessional and inappropriate. 

[Sunrider]

So he said he thought the copper cap was poor quality and it reminded him of something else he saw he thought was done poorly. This IS a matter of opinion. So a negative opinion can be slanderous. Are we not allowed to express a negative opinion? Is someone going to claim slander? These thoughts should open for discussion or confrontation that is the way to refute them.

[LUMINARA UNDULI]

Sunrider you are entitled to your opinion. I believe you are not reading that post objectively.  That is my opinion. 

Facts are that the heatsink comparison was petty and slanderous.  The comparison of a chrome plated sink nut to a copper solution as being of similar quality is misrepresentation.  I'll stop there as it is beating a dead horse.

If you can't see it throughout his entire post, well I don't know what to tell you.  You are entitled to your own opinion.

[Redthumbscrew]

This is reminding me of when I was a kid and my parents used to fight all the time and some how I new it was all my fault.
I'm gonna go hangout in the bathroom, its safe there.


P.s @Carke Kent    PM sent

[Sunrider]

 As you said the misrepresentation was obvious. Anyone would know that a copper cap is better than a nut. So why the need to defend yourself. People sometimes try to be funny in their posts. He could simply be guilty of this. By taking these countermeasures we lose our freedom to post our thoughts and be honest. That is one of the main purposes of the forums. When you stand out, and you are a big dog, people will take shots at your work. Even I have taken shots from others about my overcomplicated designs that don't make sense but who cares, people will say what they will. There is no way to control that. It must be confronted directly if you feel the need. That is their opinion and they are entitled to it even if you don't like it.

[LUMINARA UNDULI]

Ah now I see your point but again do not agree  ;D. 

You know that but actually many people do not. You forget because you are extremely saavy that you are not the norm. 

These forums are not made up of only smiths and educated hobbyists. They are a mix of folks that are collectors, combat enthusiasts, etc. as well as various builders. People come to the forums to be educated by the experts.  The poster is representing himself as a smith which to someone who is starting out or not versed in the specifics of the hardware and electronics we use, makes him an authority.  From their point of view what he said must be true because he is the expert.

That is how misinformation is spread.  What he said was not only hurtful but harmful to our business and reputation.  In addition it was utter fabrication and malarkay.

[Darth Smorgis]

*bangs head into wall*

Unfortunately this issue is obviously not going to be resolved.  Some people are just not capable of seeing things from the others point of view until the tables are turned around on them.  Everyone here is just as Lumi said "beating a dead horse" at this point.  I have heard enough talk about forum vs. forum when the original post had nothing to do with that topic in the first place.  Everyone has made their stance on this issue pretty clear and I don't see anyones opinion about to change any time soon.  Unfortunately there will never be true peace and harmony in this world despite our hopes.  Especially when peoples ignorant and hurtful "opinions" take priority over mutual respect.  Everyone is so worried about their freedom of speech that no ones thinks about who it will effect.  Some people are just too entitled.

[Vercify]

Ah now I see your point but again do not agree  ;D. 

You know that but actually many people do not. You forget because you are extremely saavy that you are not the norm. 

These forums are not made up of only smiths and educated hobbyists. They are a mix of folks that are collectors, combat enthusiasts, etc. as well as various builders. People come to the forums to be educated by the experts.  The poster is representing himself as a smith which to someone who is starting out or not versed in the specifics of the hardware and electronics we use, makes him an authority.  From their point of view what he said must be true because he is the expert.

That is how misinformation is spread.  What he said was not only hurtful but harmful to our business and reputation.  In addition it was utter fabrication and malarkay.

As a new guy and outsider I have to agree and give credence to what luminara is saying. I know almost nothing about internals. I know the science behind some of the stuff (ie/ the whole copper v. aluminum issue), but otherwise rely on the opinions, statements, and experiences of more experienced sabersmiths. Unfortunately, this can most certainly color your views of certain people, practices, and techniques. If I had not seen the quality of VV work then I would have had no trouble believing the stuff that DA was saying, because I just didn't know any better. Both Darth Alice and VV are both quality sabersmiths, so who do you believe?

Sunrider keeps harping on opinions. Fine, have a xxx opinion, that doesn't mean you need to be a jerk about your opinion. There is a difference between being rude and trying to make a joke. I'm going to ignore the pur unfairness of judging VV's work on an old, used saber that is out of date. Seriously?? Ugh.

Anyways, as a savvy member of the community you have a lot more influence than you may think on others. For instance, right now VV's feedback thread, amongst others, are being filled with some negative reviews. Again, its hard to differentiate between two experienced groups/people with differing views or someone who got their feelings hurt or had a few bad experiences far in the past and wasn't really thinking about how their statements can affect someone's reputation.

tl;dr: Everyone can have an opinion, yea, but its wrong when people's opinions turn into unfair, unjust statements/posts that can then go on to color other people's views of a company or product.

This is never going to get resolved. Its going to give me a laugh when this all disappears in a few days and everything gets back to normal.

[jedicri]

Okay, again, regardless of what was posted earlier, we've had Amptrooper and JYN post a response and have in as many words, offered an olive branch of peace.  Has anyone involved on this side of the forum responded to this?

With all due respect to the posters that have posted above, your posts have done nothing to advance any resolution to this still ongoing issue --- all these are just commentaries and opinions and no action (that I know of at this point in time).

I echo Darth Smorgis' frustration.....

[Master Jedye]

Like Jay said, if you want to see an internal mess, open up ANY of our early sabers...any of us.  I'm pretty sure one or two of our early Gemini Concepts sabers even had some electrical tape in them.    :-[

Yes, it sounds like DA was just "stating his opinion" which he is entitled too.
But it certainly looks like there was a hurtful agenda with his post. 

And to Deanna's point, misinformation is a heck a thing.  It could be and expensive mistake and one that would kill the love of this hobby for someone new. 

That being said...for all you that are saying "this isn't helping"... Yes it is.  Dialog...any dialog is good. 

[jedicri]

Like Jay said, if you want to see an internal mess, open up ANY of our early sabers...any of us.  I'm pretty sure one or two of our early Gemini Concepts sabers even had some electrical tape in them.    :-[

Yes, it sounds like DA was just "stating his opinion" which he is entitled too.
But it certainly looks like there was a hurtful agenda with his post. 

And to Deanna's point, misinformation is a heck a thing.  It could be and expensive mistake and one that would kill the love of this hobby for someone new. 

That being said...for all you that are saying "this isn't helping"... Yes it is.  Dialog...any dialog is good.

Yes, dialog is good, but action speaks louder than words and right now, I see none of it and I hope to see some to resolve this issue.  Dialog means nothing if there is no resolve to follow up or act upon it.