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FX-Sabers Discussion - Including a Gallery of custom sabers. => LED SABERS => Topic started by: Goodman on July 12, 2009, 09:51:02 PM

Title: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on July 12, 2009, 09:51:02 PM
Heh, I knew "15W" would attract some of you to read this :)

I'll post more info here including direct Luxeon-to-LedEngin photos as this thread evolves. In the meantime, here is a summary below.  Please feel free to add any questions, experience, tips, pictures, or general comments concerning LedEngin LEDs.


LedEngin LEDs

Recently there has been increasing discussion about LedEngin LEDs. Currently it isn't a widely used LED, but I think those who do use it would agree with me that in specific applications it certainly deserves your consideration when planning your next project.

LedEngin (available at www.mouser.com) produces a 5W LED that is mounted on a PCB star so is compatible with TCSS' lens/lens holders. The 5W's power requirements are similar to a Lux3 or Seoul P4, so most are "drop-in" compatible with sabers which use the popular MR/Hasbro soundboards. Despite using similar power setups, I have found the 5W green and 5W blue to be brighter than their Luxeon3/Seoul P4 counterparts.  I'll add pictures to this thread as it evolves and as always it is best to judge for yourself.

LedEngin also produces a 10W LED, which is comprised of four dies which can be wired separately, all still mounted on a standard PCB star. The 10W LEDs emit lots of light for their size (--on paper, up to 425 lumens for green...= to my eye in real life, VERY BRIGHT). There are many combinations possible for driving the 10W. All four dies in series with a buckpuck, 2-3 in series on a US with the other 1-2 on a buck, two in series on a CF and one on a clash/power extender, etc...




Pros of the 5W:

Reasonably priced ($7-10)
Mounted on a PCB star just like a Luxeon, so is compatible with TCSS lens holders, MHS blade holders, etc
Similar power requirements to Lux3/Seoul P4 LEDs (2.5-3.6V, 1000mA), so they're compatible with MR soundboards
Properly driven, the Green and Blues are brighter than their Lux3 or SeoulP4 counterparts
Available in green, red, blue, amber, etc
Stay away from the 5W red (the 10W is much better)

Downsides of the 5W:
Solder pads are very shallow and difficult to solder (better-than-good soldering iron is recommended)
Currently only available from www.mouser.com, and when they're out of stock, it takes 3-6 weeks to restock
A Lux3 Red at 1.5A is brighter


Pros of the 10W:
Bright and brighter!
700mA, can take 1A overdriven
The four dies can be wired separately (i.e., 5W off a CF w/ 5W clash, or 5W off a US w/ 5W buck puck constant)
RGGB available, for a fantastic purple
RGBA also available (perhaps a purple with amber clash)

Downsides and tips the 10W:
Same shallow solder pads as the 10W
Can get a rather pricey ($24-$40)
Require more power (9-14V depending on the LED), so more battery space is needed in your hilt
Accordingly, you need to split the dies in order to achieve sound, unless you don't mind having a very bright stunt saber (all four dies on a buckpuck)
The 10W are offered in two versions: one where all four dies are connected in series, and one where they are individual --make sure you buy the one you want for your specific goal)



Now, LedEngin DOES produce a 15W, but it is not mounted on a PCB star like what we're used to using. But don't worry, something is in the works... ;)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on July 13, 2009, 10:19:09 AM
Now, LedEngin DOES produce a 15W, but it is not mounted on a PCB star like what we're used to using. But don't worry, something is in the works... ;)
WHAOOOW Goodman, Good man!!!
Can't wait for what you have in store for us.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on July 13, 2009, 10:38:00 AM
*with single raised eyebrow*

Fascinating!

Looking forward to hearing more about "something is in the works" when you are ready.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: wookieecrisp on July 13, 2009, 12:37:19 PM
I'm excited for the 15w... ;D ;) ;)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Jedi-relik on July 13, 2009, 03:46:29 PM
Are you saying that the 5w are compatible with a hasbro economy board? Very interesting if they are because I have a few laying around and wasn't sold on the brightness they put out without using a puck or resistor...
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: xwingband on July 13, 2009, 04:05:55 PM
Are you saying that the 5w are compatible with a hasbro economy board? Very interesting if they are because I have a few laying around and wasn't sold on the brightness they put out without using a puck or resistor...

I don't see where he says that...

Even so, a wattage alone doesn't mean much.  Why it gives no indication of brightness.  A soldering iron is generally rated by watts but it's giving no light off.  Also you have to supply 15W of power.  No simple task.

A lumen per watt is a much better number.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Jedi-relik on July 13, 2009, 04:18:13 PM
My understanding was that Lux 3's were compatible with eco boards and wasn't sure if the MR/Hasbro included eco-boards. Just trying to find a good use for the ones I have, without having to wire more things than neccessary ;)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on July 13, 2009, 04:31:06 PM
No, when I said "MR/Hasbro soundboards" I meant the FX-level soundboards that were used in Master Replicas FX sabers and now Hasbro's FX versions (nearly identical). I did not mean the hasbro economy board...frankly I haven't tested a LedEngin 5W on one of those boards myself because I've never had one on my bench yet, so I can't say definitively that it can or cannot work. Each LED's specifications are listed on www.mouser.com. 'Hope that helps you.


And to reiterate what I said at the top of this thread, the 5W LEDs have comparable power requirements (voltage and current) as LuxeonIII or Seoul P4 LEDs, and so, at least I think, deserve being considered for MR/Hasbro conversions --just ask Allaerra and FenderBender, that's used some and I think agree with me make a nice addition to their LED options.  

The 10Ws, as xwingband and I said, require lots of power and as such essentially require a hilt to be built around the LED. The reason why I mentioned the 10W is because they can still be wired into a saber (MadHatter did it in his famous saber CF) if planned out properly, and because I believe it is always good to push the envelope.

Remember when a Luxeon Star O was the brightest LED around?

Change is good.

 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: KI-ADI-MUNDI on July 13, 2009, 04:35:15 PM
I think I'd like to try a 5 W green in my up coming Quigon project....
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Jedi-relik on July 13, 2009, 04:46:36 PM
Worth a shot for me I guess, if it doesn't work, I can still make a pretty bright stunt ;)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on July 13, 2009, 05:08:45 PM
Jedi Relik since you say you have a bunch of Hasbro econo cards you are looking to use up the Cree LEDs might be a good choice for that application...they are reasonably bright at lower milliamps.

As for the 10W LEDEngin...

Goodman am I correct in understanding that with the 4 individual wiring kind of 10W LEDEngin they could be wired up in a combination of series and parallel so that an Ultrasound running at 1500mA with a 7.2-8.4 li-ion battery solution could run all four each with 750milliamps of current?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Jasher Kain on July 13, 2009, 05:44:25 PM
Do they offer the same range of colors (different bin #'s) as Luxeon Star?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on August 01, 2009, 03:58:44 PM
Alright, friends. 'Finally got some time to snap a few comparison pics. To me, the most misleading thing about LED saber pictures (besides the overexposure issue) is spillover of light when two blades are put side by side. Particularly with blades of the same color, simply putting them next to each other doesn't give an accurate sense of their brightness, because the light mixes with each other. So, my VERY rudimentary setup I used was to evenly space the comparison blades across a towel, and then use spare empty blades to create a uniform "dividing wall" between each comparison blades to capture the light emanating from them without spilling into the path of their neighbors.

All sabers were run with buckpucks @1A on fully charged batteries. Some tests were used with all UltraBlade thins, and some tests were used with all UltraEdges (to discern the actual color better). It must be noted that the Tri-Rebel used is a GGW...a GGG is even brighter. Also, the LedEngin 10W only has three of the four dies connected, so if it would be about 25% brighter than it already is if I were to wire up all four dies. I'll do that later when I get my powerextender and update the pics.


First up, the LEDs. From Upper Left to Bottom Right: Lux3, LuxV, Seoul P4, Tri-Rebel, LedEngin 5W B, LedEngin 5W G, LedEngin 10W RGBA, LedEngin 10W R.  Note how the Lux and Seoul LEDs have pretinned solder pads --these are easy to solder with a 2 second touch of your soldering iron. The LedEngins and Tri-Rebels, however, have very shallow solder pads so much care is needed when soldering. Note also the height and width increase of the 10Ws. Luckily, they still fit under a standard lens/holder with minor modification to the holder. Better lenses are coming soon... ;)

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff285%2FAKD001%2FLED%2520Comparisons%2FIMG_5974.jpg&hash=99aa21d2d8922ae1d35db7af06895eb854d8cb4d)

THE SETUP: Uniform distance and height to evenly capture the light spill from each blade.
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff285%2FAKD001%2FLED%2520Comparisons%2FIMG_5984.jpg&hash=9cf226ce7d03ed0b0418dd88ecaa18be67a6dc4b)

UltraEdge BASE COMPARISON: LIGHTS ON  Top to Bottom: Luxeon 3, Seoul P4, LedEngin 5W. As stated earlier, the LedEngin is perfectly compatible with MR boards.
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff285%2FAKD001%2FLED%2520Comparisons%2FIMG_6012.jpg&hash=9cf03f804cb5878cfb327cbcb88e62ba10736a88)

UltraBlade MED COMPARISON: LIGHTS ON
Top to Bottom: LuxV, MR L-ROTJ, Lux3, LedEngin 5W
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff285%2FAKD001%2FLED%2520Comparisons%2FIMG_5991.jpg&hash=ab77d4ef87f0adea14bb40e3fd79303c558d4e06)

ADVANCED COMPARISON: LIGHTS ON
Top to Bottom: MR L-ROTJ, LuxV, Tri-Rebel GGW, LedEngin 10W (only 3 of 4 dies connected) [**EDIT** the Tri-Rebel picture here is underpowered...look on my post on the next page to see the accurate comparison which shows it having equal brightness as the LuxV]
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff285%2FAKD001%2FLED%2520Comparisons%2FIMG_5999.jpg&hash=20e1bb174595fe9ebdc848e1517f8d05046514bc)

WALL SHOT: LIGHTS OFF This is one of my favorite shots. I put brand new E2 Lithium batteries in the MR L-ROTJ, and put it up against the LedEngin 10W, which only had 3 of 4 dies connected AND had nearly dead batteries.  Still, the LedEngin 10W is so bright that it casts a thick shadow against the MR. hahaha I thought that was neat :) With new batteries and all four dies connected, the 10W is so bright that it is impossible to tell if the MR next to it is even turned on or not!

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff285%2FAKD001%2FLED%2520Comparisons%2FIMG_6003.jpg&hash=8938786fd245bbd3bd90675c521b08c674e6c337)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on August 01, 2009, 04:14:53 PM
Wow Good man.
That looks VERRY clear.
I expected the tri-rebels to be MUCH brighter but they cannot compete against our old Lux V.
The LedEngine 10W, is there much difference between a Luxeon 10W or a LedEngine 10W in brightness and color, or is it the same?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on August 01, 2009, 04:23:57 PM
Yeah, the Tri-Rebel GG actually looks closer to the LuxV's brightness in "real life", but the pics somehow show a larger difference. Though to be fair, the main reason why people buy the Tri-Rebels (besides color blending) isn't for max brightness, but for Clash Flash. If someone asked me to recommend a single color LED and had the pack to power it, the LuxV or 10W would be a better choice (this is more a function of the current optic setup with Tri-Rebels that doesn't allow for higher efficiency collection of light, as xwingband has stated). But as for an in-blade Clash Flash? ONLY the Tri-Rebel can do that, and trust me, the effect with a GGW looks amazing and is definitely worth the slightly lower initial brightness. Mind you, that "initial brightness" is still on par or better than a Seoul P4 Green, easily, so it's nothing to complain about since it's already bright.  ;) As with many things in life, different products for different objectives.

...and GGG would be brighter than the GGW pictured here (obviously).


Also, Luxeon doesn't make a 10W. Only LedEngin. The LedEngin 10W is the brightest LED I can cram into a saber so far, aside from the 15W I'm prototyping.



And before anyone asks, as time allows this month I'll be posting similar comparison spreads of Lux vs Seoul P4 vs LedEngin 5/10W using other colors, so sit tight. Red is next, then Blue, the RGB.




Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Master Durangus on August 01, 2009, 04:25:45 PM
Wow Goodman, the LedEngin 10W looks incredible...what kind of power requirements does it have? (Guessing probably 6 batteries?)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on August 01, 2009, 04:29:56 PM
I'm already much further HAHAHA, can the 15W LedEngine be driven along with a CF board in a saber???
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: xwingband on August 01, 2009, 04:31:26 PM
Yeah, I really wouldn't recommend tri-rebels for brightness whores... this is coming from the person who sells them.  It's not as bright as it could be since it's still not under one dome.  Tri-rebels are more about the effects you can get and custom blending.  I'd say it should be brighter than the pics, but I'm not there and I'll not back seat drive another builder.  I sell them as parts, "customers" can install them however!

A single centered Rebel done properly will beat a V though.  I took a video to show that.

That's an good idea for comparing them by isolating the spill over.  Those 10W's are bright, but I still don't like having to give 10W of power to them.  That'd eat batteries like a beast!

EDIT: Goodman beat me!  It's about the effects on tri-rebels.  I've actually been too busy but I think I'll finally install a BBW in my K3GR1.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on August 01, 2009, 04:39:09 PM

EDIT: Goodman beat me!  It's about the effects on tri-rebels.  I've actually been too busy but I think I'll finally install a BBW in my K3GR1.

Let see it.?  ;D
Give us a link?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: JANGO FETT on August 01, 2009, 04:45:30 PM

EDIT: Goodman beat me!  It's about the effects on tri-rebels.  I've actually been too busy but I think I'll finally install a BBW in my K3GR1.

Let see it.?  ;D
Give us a link?

these are not the droids you are looking for. Move along.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on August 01, 2009, 04:50:32 PM
Yep, as I said, xwingband said what I said he said.   ;D 



Durangus, the 10W Green needs 14.4V. The 10W Red, however, only needs 9.6V, which is totally doable with a CF or US (see MadHatter's innovative saber on TCSS). Direct drive, easy. Or, on the CF, three dies in series and the fourth on a PwrExtender for clash.

As has already been mentioned, when you're talking 10W/15W, you're well beyond traditional powering/soundboard setups. These will need packs built for the LED, and essentially the entire saber designed around the LED.

To continue the discussion about LedEngins, it is important to note that the LedEngin 10W is produced in both serially connected (LZ440) and individually addressable (LZ420) setups. What does this mean? Well, a serially connected 10W (all colors except the lower voltage red) is doomed to only be a stunt saber, because as we all know no currently available soundboard can handle that much voltage by itself.  But the LZ420? Easy, you just wire two of the four dies in series with a buckpuck and the other two dies to a US or CF and voila, 10W brightness with sound. And the REAL fun part? Wire three of the dies in series with a buckpuck and the fourth die to an MR board and voila, 10W brightness with cheap MR sound.  All it takes is careful engineering for the extra saber guts (extra pack, buck, and bigger heatsink).

For all you "brightness whores" as xwingband put it (hahaha), with me being one of them, that's Win.

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff285%2FAKD001%2FLED%2520Comparisons%2FIMG_6016.jpg&hash=3b65c78844cccda66014f6ba31ad9eb6ea30f95a)


For the record, I've already done three of these so I call dibs on the idea of 10W/MR sound, Lol.  ;D I'm using a DPST switch to simultaneously activate both the pack/puck/3Die AND the pack/MR/1Die.

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Weld Twiin on August 01, 2009, 04:51:29 PM
Thanks for the pics, Goodman! 8)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: xwingband on August 01, 2009, 04:54:03 PM
I'm already much further HAHAHA, can the 15W LedEngine be driven along with a CF board in a saber???

A CF can theoretically power an 18W LED, but would have no flicker and little effects since it'd be direct driving.

In practice I'd say not without lots of work arounds.  For example I'm looking at the Amber 15W datasheet now... it's around 11V at 1A.  That's only 11W, not it's max, and that'd be pushing a CF to it's limits.  You'd need a 11.1V li-ion pack and that wouldn't work well to drive the LED and hitting the 12V limit of the CF.

You'd need like a 14.4V li-ion pack, an extender to a buckpuck to drive it, and a regulator to not fry the CF.  That's a load of work... I'd charge out the bumhole myself to build it.

EDIT: Slow again... yes, move along.  It's a secret. :P
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on August 01, 2009, 05:38:30 PM
Yeah, I really wouldn't recommend tri-rebels for brightness whores... this is coming from the person who sells them.  It's not as bright as it could be since it's still not under one dome.  Tri-rebels are more about the effects you can get and custom blending.  I'd say it should be brighter than the pics, but I'm not there and I'll not back seat drive another builder.  


xwingband, your intuitions were correct. I equalized the pack and reshot a comparison pic between the Tri-Rebel GGW and the LuxV G.  Both are at 1A on fully charged 7.4V packs. This is a much more accurate picture of the brightness...they're nearly dead even even though the Tri- only uses two green dies (the white is turned off obviously).  A Tri-Rebel GGG fully driven would outshine a LuxV by a noticeable margin.

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff285%2FAKD001%2FLED%2520Comparisons%2FIMG_6018.jpg&hash=296db37f1c7a2777544bb5c93a38365246ded42c)

Can anyone tell the difference which is which?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on August 01, 2009, 05:45:40 PM
Hey there Goodman.  I am not sure the rebel is the only LED that can do the clash flash ;)  I am experimenting with RGBs also ;D  Stay tuned 8)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on August 01, 2009, 05:58:22 PM

You're right about that Alaerra. Essentially any individually addressable LED can be clash flashed... I guess earlier I was talking more about standard color LEDs. Obviously the 3/5/10W RGB and RGBA are all individually addressable for purple + A flash or dimmer R/G/B + A flash.    ....I can't wait to see what you come up with!!! :)y a
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Master Durangus on August 01, 2009, 06:01:19 PM
The one on the left is the LUX V. *My guess* ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: jay dee on August 01, 2009, 06:04:18 PM
rebel on the left.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: xwingband on August 01, 2009, 06:06:23 PM
I wouldn't bet on that picture... both are multi-die LEDs with similar brightness, it'd be a guess for me.

Allaerra, yeah that could be cool if tuned just right.  All on should make a white.  Loads of possibilities there too!
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on August 01, 2009, 06:09:48 PM
I wouldn't bet on that picture... both are multi-die LEDs with similar brightness, it'd be a guess for me.

Allaerra, yeah that could be cool if tuned just right.  All on should make a white.  Loads of possibilities there too!

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Scythe on August 01, 2009, 09:21:20 PM
Goodman,

I'm looking forward to my 5w MR Luke ROTJ! Thanks for the heads up on that.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on August 02, 2009, 12:59:04 PM
The left is brighter, so I'll say Left LuxV Right Rebel.
But it looks xxx good-man, almost the same, and than you'll have the white clash, I'll think that rocks.
What were the complanes about the Rebell GGW color vs LuxV again???.
I don't see so much difference there.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: KI-ADI-MUNDI on August 02, 2009, 01:16:04 PM
The left is brighter, so I'll say Left LuxV Right Rebel.
But it looks xxx good-man, almost the same, and than you'll have the white clash, I'll think that rocks.
What were the complanes about the Rebell GGW color vs LuxV again???.
I don't see so much difference there.
You can't see it in pics... but for me there is a lot of yellow in the GGW that I have... and when you turn on any other color with it the yellow gets worse... My LUX V green does not look like that it's green with no hint of yellow and it stays green no mater what other color is on.... It might just be me though I can't speak for others...
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Firedrops on August 04, 2009, 08:23:08 PM
coolios. how many NiMH batteries would that need?(sorry i haven't learnt about battery voltage and such yet, so im quite confused with those things)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on August 04, 2009, 10:04:06 PM
These need lots of power, so I'm using Li-ions, not NiMHs.

Instead of posting the Lux3/5W/10W comparison for Red tonight like I had planned, I decided to make a video of a 10W RGBA (still in manual testing phase, but destined for a CF).



Let me know what y'all think :)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Sohryu76 on August 04, 2009, 10:14:40 PM
Hey goodman I am sure you know your PMs are full...
I emailed you
want to finalize a thing or two...
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on August 04, 2009, 10:43:09 PM
These need lots of power, so I'm using Li-ions, not NiMHs.

Instead of posting the Lux3/5W/10W comparison for Red tonight like I had planned, I decided to make a video of a 10W RGBA (still in manual testing phase, but destined for a CF).



Let me know what y'all think :)

Woohoo!  Looking good ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on August 04, 2009, 11:31:25 PM
Whoops, geez, I leave the house for an hour and I get eight PMs. Sorry y'all, it's cleared up now.


Thanks Allerra! Post the special lens pics when you have it mounted up. That will help add to the LedEngin discussion here and then I'll post the other version too...  ;)


*UPDATE* Here's a couple vids of the single die red, and single die green, against a Seoul P4 red, and a LedEngin 5W green (comparable to a Seoul P4 green).

Red:



Green:


Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Firedrops on August 05, 2009, 02:30:55 AM
These need lots of power, so I'm using Li-ions, not NiMHs.

Instead of posting the Lux3/5W/10W comparison for Red tonight like I had planned, I decided to make a video of a 10W RGBA (still in manual testing phase, but destined for a CF).



Let me know what y'all think :)
So how many Li-ions would be needed?
the video is great btw, just wondering: how do you change colors halfway? do you gotta take out the whole thing from the hilt?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on August 05, 2009, 03:34:28 AM
The 10W RGBW, the green alone looks very bright too, and than you have the W far clash.
Cinse we are doing the RGBWs too,...
How will this be compared to the TriRebel GG and W for clash in brightness?
Can you show that to us?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on August 05, 2009, 10:54:37 AM
Firedrops,
It's an RGBA LED, which means that there are four color dice (red, green, blue, and amber) under one single dome. Look on the previous page of pictures to see that the RGBA LED is almost the same size as a regular "single color" LED. It is mounted in the hilt just like any other LED. The difference is that I have three separate circuits (lots of wires!). One to the red die, one, to the blue die, and one to the green/amber dice. I can activate them individually to show you red, or blue, or yellowishgreen, OR I can activate the red and blue dice to give a violet color (since the colors mix). With all four dice activated, the colors mix to white, which is what mimics the clash.  So what you are seeing when the color changes is simply turning on switches for a combination of those three circuits. No physical change is needed --it's all in one.

As stated in the video notes, for these tests I'm activating the circuits manually, but ultimately this will be controlled by a CF with power extenders.


Matth,
Sure, I can video and post a Tri-Rebel GGW vs. LE10W RGBA tonight or tomorrow. I can tell you that in real life to my naked eye, the 10W's green die alone is on par with the brightness of a GG. It's *almost* LuxV green brightness, if not dead even (just a difference in the color itself, not the brightness, which throws my eye off).








...Does anyone else have LedEngins they can post pictures of or share experiences with?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on August 05, 2009, 01:32:20 PM
As stated in the video notes, for these tests I'm activating the circuits manually, but ultimately this will be controlled by a CF with power extenders.
Hmm, so for brightness this all is comparable to the lux V, apart from a 10W single colored LED with all 4 oreven 3 points wired up.
When I want brighter, I need a 10W.
But for the possability of a white clash effect (which is also VERY cool) there's now the choice of for example the TriRebel GGW for green against the 10 RGBA which has a G for green and the RBA for the clash addedalong with the G.
I hoe this will work smoothly with the CF board.
Aspecially that last setup, would be great when the new CF board let say CF 4.2 or CFV has the possabillity to make choices for color saber in the Config folder and use the other colors automaticly for the clash.

Hahhhh WOW.

I think I'll get the hang-of-it.
Now you wizards must get the control over this new technics, but so it seems you don't have a problem with that.
And I follow this like the first trip to the moon. (Not that I was born back than)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on August 05, 2009, 03:29:47 PM
If you're using a 10W RGBA, but only the Green active, then for clash, it would be a lot simpler to run the Amber die only through a power extender (the amber only needs ~2.7V IIRC). The clash flash effect will be just as nice (more yellowish like the movies), and the sacrifice in full white clash brightness will be made up for by much less complex wiring. What I'm trying to say is that you don't NEED to trigger all four dies to make a clash per se --two or three mixed make is still satisfying.

If you wanted to clash the RBA simultaneously off a single CF and power extender....I'd have to check the manual but it I don't think it can be done like that.... MadHatter used a 1A buck and logic for his 10W Red saber. 2 dice on all the time via the CF, and the other 2 via powerextender/buck setup. He'd be the one to contact for that part.

For now, I will most likely run blue and red in series for violet, and clash the amber via powerextender. Simple and bright.


Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on August 06, 2009, 06:03:30 AM
That would make a great Mace Windu saber.
Now we only need a size correct hilt for that.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on August 06, 2009, 10:25:32 AM
'working on it...
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Firedrops on August 09, 2009, 07:37:25 PM
um... how many Li-Ion batteries does this need? oh and, does this come in RGB(no amber)?
you're still testing this right? any idea when you would be able to commercialize this?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on August 10, 2009, 12:27:18 AM
Search "LedEngin 10W" in mouser.com and you can click on each LED to see its voltage/current requirements. A 10W Red is the lowest (9.6V), while a 10W green is the highest (14.4V).

LedEngin makes the following LEDs in both 5W and 10W:

White
Red
Green
Blue
Amber
RGB
RGBA
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on August 10, 2009, 02:05:18 AM
Since the 10W LedEngine green has 4 points to detache on your powersuply, can I make up from that, the 10W RGBA while using only the green, is only a quarter in brightness of the Green version in full use?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Firedrops on August 10, 2009, 03:41:05 AM
As for the RGB type, why do they have 2 greens?(like, why not 2 of another color, or just remove 1 of the dies instead)

EDIT: so NO Royal Blue for a 10W??
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: CybKnight on August 10, 2009, 04:10:43 AM
Twice as bright?

Also due to layout of star pcb, it takes four dies...
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: xwingband on August 10, 2009, 05:20:50 AM
um... how many Li-Ion batteries does this need? oh and, does this come in RGB(no amber)?
you're still testing this right? any idea when you would be able to commercialize this?

Do your homework like Goodman said.  Once you have the voltage you know what you need to exceed.  To be driven properly you need around 1 more volt than the specs.

Then batteries you add their voltages when in series.  li-ions are 3.7V.  So keep adding until you beat published spec + 1V.

Goodman's post shows why I don't like refering to wattages.  Two LEDs can have drastically different voltages and still be the same wattage.  Volts x amps is your wattage.  It's misleading for all except the total amount of power you'd need to provide the system.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on August 10, 2009, 06:49:50 AM
As for the RGB type, why do they have 2 greens?(like, why not 2 of another color, or just remove 1 of the dies instead)

EDIT: so NO Royal Blue for a 10W??

You need to do research Firedrops.  There is a spec sheet on the LEDEngin website as has been mentioned.  Take a look at it if this interests you.  LEDEngin doesn't make "royal blue" that is a Luxeon color.  They have a "dental" blue which, inclidentally, does come in the 10W.

Regarding why not another color on the dies, the 4 dies is the way the LED is set up.  Currently they have an RGBA and a RGGB.  These LEDs are set up so that you can run only two or three if you want which, for our purposes is what we want anyway so what does it matter ::)?  If you are color mixing, you only use two of the dies at the same time R & B for purples and pinks, R & G for oranges and yellows (maybe R,G, A haven't experimented with that yet), or G & B for cyans.  If you run all of them at the same time, you just get some approximation of white, maybe slanting to the green as there are two dies but, if you wanted a bright white you can just buy a 10W white for an insane typical luminous flux of 790 in a U bin :o

um... how many Li-Ion batteries does this need? oh and, does this come in RGB(no amber)?
you're still testing this right? any idea when you would be able to commercialize this?

There are people already putting these in sabers.  Custom sabers aren't really a "commercial product" per se.  This is a high end application that is either going to go in a stunt saber or a saber with a high end sound board.  The voltage requirements are challenging.  Vader's Vault will be releasing some CF sabers with 10W LEDs in the coming month's but, like all of our customs, they are not "commercial".  They are one-of-a-kind pieces. 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Firedrops on August 10, 2009, 07:21:44 AM
ah i see thanks for the info... but forgive me i don't really know what is a spec sheet, so don't even need mention about reading one. so um... what is it, how do you read it and what kind of info does it give?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: The Highwayman on August 10, 2009, 07:37:10 AM
Ummm, let me think... A spec sheet is what tells how many lumens it produces, forward voltage, current requirements, etc. it gives you the technical data on the LED.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Firedrops on August 10, 2009, 07:38:51 AM
what are lumens and forward voltages? lumens are something that you measure brightness with right? whats forward voltage? ???

oh and, something off-topic.
40WATTS WHITE ?!
http://mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvdqMP%2faZ%252bGCuoVIu8lRQxj
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on August 10, 2009, 07:44:16 AM
what are lumens and forward voltages? lumens are something that you measure brightness with right? whats forward voltage? ???

oh and, something off-topic.
40WATTS WHITE ?!
http://mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvdqMP%2faZ%252bGCuoVIu8lRQxj
Study.  Read.  Google. 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: darth_call on August 10, 2009, 07:50:41 AM
I am growing tired of watching detailed conversations flooded by questions that can be answered eiother elsewhere are through research.

This is not a thread to ask about the common feature of a typical LED.

This topic is a discussion about the LEDengin LED and their future in the custom saber market. A little extra tech savvy is gonna be needed here and this is NOT the place to asks any random Joe questions about the functionality of typical LEDs.
I, and many others, are EXTREMELY interested in this topic and want to here what Goodman and many others who are experimenting with these LEDs have to say.

If u do not fully understand the characteristics of an LED, or do not understand what these developments mean, then sit back and read, as many others (myself included) have chosen to do.


Bring this discussion back to its intended purposes or I will start cleaning posts!!


Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: The Highwayman on August 10, 2009, 11:46:20 AM
"And before anyone asks, as time allows this month I'll be posting similar comparison spreads of Lux vs Seoul P4 vs LedEngin 5/10W using other colors, so sit tight. Red is next, then Blue, the RGB."

Sweet... the red is the one I want to see. I've watched this thread constantly and am hoping ot one day do a 5 watt blue stunt.

I sent you a PM Goodman. Don't know if you got it. ;) 8)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on August 10, 2009, 11:48:33 AM
Thanks Chewbacca.

Spec sheets are good reading, friends.

To the questions:

1) xwingband is right on about wattage and voltage. The same logic goes for lumens, too. Bottomline, it's misleading. For example, I can tell you that on paper, the 10W green outputs nearly five times more lumens than a Lux V green (765 @1A vs 160 @700A). However, in real life to my eyes, the 10W is closer to 2 or 2.5 times brighter than a Lux V. Nothing to complain about, but still nothing close to what you would think if you were just going off of the numbers. As stated before, one of the purposes of this thread is to show my results, and in turn encourage others to experiment with the LEDs themselves. Only by seeing LEDs in person can you really appreciate their advantages and shortcomings. If you don't have the inclination to bank test multiple LEDs, then hopefully the pictures and discussion here will at least prompt you to ask your saber smith to consider installing one in the next saber he or she is building for you.

2) Vader's Vault, ArkLight Arsenal, and others are already using these high power LEDs in custom sabers. Vader's Vault even used a 10W amber recently with fantastic results I think. The challenge, as Allaerra said, is proper power setup. Personally I think these LEDs, particularly the RGBA, was born for a CF. : )

3) The 40W White is definitely bright, but it also gets hot very, very fast. As in, a few seconds fast. Besides making a custom heatsink (huge 2" vented chunk of copper), the main challenges are power (~twelve 3.7V li-ions) and also fitting it under a suitable lens. The current lens most of us use isn't designed for a 9mm wide dome. Heck, the 7mm dome of a 10W is already verging on too big. Sure, I can drop the height of the dome by refacing the heatsink, but then you lose efficiency i.e., less light is focused forward and out through the blade. Until a better optic/sink solution is made available, the jury is out on these 40Ws right now. The only way I see it can be made is in a totally custom saber with a large ID (1.5") in order to fit a larger type HE lens that is made for this LED of this size. Not to mention the fact that, even for brightness whores like me, 40W is a bit  --'can't believe I'm saying this-- overkill. It's like walking around with one of those fluorescent ceiling lighting tubes.

4) Picture time: A 10W green and 10W blue in a doorway with indirect sunlight shining through at 12 noon. :)  **EDIT** I can't get this picture to post...





















Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on August 10, 2009, 01:55:03 PM
Goodman are you kidding me,... that last line, was that a joke??? :)
I'm hungry and you're keeping a cake before me and don't let me bite.

"And before anyone asks, as time allows this month I'll be posting similar comparison spreads of Lux vs Seoul P4 vs LedEngin 5/10W using other colors, so sit tight. Red is next, then Blue, the RGB."
Add there a Red/Orange to if you can, please?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: The Highwayman on August 10, 2009, 01:57:55 PM
Goodman are you kidding me,... that last line, was that a joke??? :)
I'm hungry and you're keeping a cake before me and don't let me bite.

Also Darth Caden, add there a Red/Orange to if you can, please?

He really can't get it ot post.

I don't own any of these LEDs, I just want too. :D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Agash on August 10, 2009, 03:34:12 PM
personally I use only Ledengin 10W in my Sabers.
They are so nicely configurable as 2+2 Setup or as 2 overdriven and 2 as clashflash setup. I really love them esspecially as red, which is more a red/orange.

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on August 10, 2009, 05:48:39 PM
personally I use only Ledengin 10W in my Sabers.
They are so nicely configurable as 2+2 Setup or as 2 overdriven and 2 as clashflash setup. I really love them esspecially as red, which is more a red/orange.



Interesting.  Can you post some pics and maybe a vid or two?  Those of us experimenting would love to see what others have done ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on August 11, 2009, 12:48:46 AM
'Would definitely enjoy seeing some pics, Agash! At what current are you overdriving the two die? And how are you driving the other 2 dice (CF clash pad in parallel --175ma each, or do you have a 1A buck in between there like MadHatter used?) What are you doing to wick away the heat?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: The Highwayman on August 11, 2009, 07:20:15 PM
Agasgh, I'd also liek some pics. I don't have maching capabilities, but eventually I'd liek ot do a 5w blue stunt.

My question is, if it's properly heatsinked, could you do this in a PVC saber with on of the regular blue Ledengin 5w? (Not dental blue) ;) I'm not sure how hot these things get, i'm guessing probably too hot for my application. I looked, but I found nothing specific about temps. Since this is the place for these LEDs, I figured where better ot ask.

So, how warm do they get?

Oh and, Goodman, PM sent. 8)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on August 12, 2009, 01:17:29 AM
The 5Ws are fine for heat --I treat them just like a Lux3. A standard heatsink will do just fine. It's only the 10Ws that you need to think about "supersinking" if you're going to run it for any extended period of time.

I still need your address, Caden ;)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: wookieecrisp on August 12, 2009, 02:29:04 AM
>:( I feel so embarrassed because I haven't read this topic before...

:D With that said, great pics Goodman! You really live up to your name! :D ;) ;)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: The Highwayman on August 12, 2009, 06:20:35 AM
The 5Ws are fine for heat --I treat them just like a Lux3. A standard heatsink will do just fine. It's only the 10Ws that you need to think about "supersinking" if you're going to run it for any extended period of time.

I still need your address, Caden ;)

Goodman, you have a PM. ;) 8)

I'll have ot look into the 5w blue when I use up other LEDs. Just like a Lux III eh... Hmmm... Thanks for the response.

Good, very good.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on August 12, 2009, 06:58:10 AM
The 5Ws are fine for heat --I treat them just like a Lux3. A standard heatsink will do just fine. It's only the 10Ws that you need to think about "supersinking" if you're going to run it for any extended period of time.

I still need your address, Caden ;)

Goodman, you have a PM. ;) 8)

I'll have ot look into the 5w blue when I use up other LEDs. Just like a Lux III eh... Hmmm... Thanks for the response.

Good, very good.

The 5W blue is a great LED ;D.  We switch back and forth between the P4 and LEDengin on all our builds now.  The Lux III just isn't bright once you have been using the other two ;D  What we have found is that the LEDEngin is noticeably brighter, but the P4 has a deeper hue whereas the LEDEngin is a lighter shade of blue, if you get what I am saying?  So, it depends on which color we are looking for ultimately that makes the decision for us.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: darth_call on August 12, 2009, 07:44:10 AM
I wired up a green 5w LEDengin yesterday using a MR Board, and a few things/questions/comments:

1. Solder Characteristic of the old K2's, hard to solder, but didn't really have time to experiment with other solder methods/solder type, I used solder w/rosin core.

2. The green is a nice shade, not REALLY deep, but not anywhere near as pastel as a P4. I like the shade.

3. I am not really noticing any significant brightness over a LUX III using a  Darth maul HFX Board.  Well, ..it IS brighter when compared to a LUX III, just not as much as I was hoping.

All in all, i think this is a good replacement for a Lux III and depending on how it gets powered, maybe even a good replacement for the LUX V. I Like them and will be adding them as an option to our builds.

I also have a few blues and 2 reds to test, but I really am a fan of the P4 counterparts of those colors.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on August 12, 2009, 08:27:17 AM
Thanks Chewwie.
Interresting.
Since they get allong with the MR-board I really like those LedEngine V's already.
Like Goodman said, the Red shall not be so spectacular, but the blue,...
This are nice options for the future Hasbro conversions, like the Obi TPM.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: xwingband on August 12, 2009, 09:57:36 AM
"LedEngine V's"

Please don't perpetuate that mistake!  V = is not a wattage!!!

Wattage /= Brightness and the I, III, V naming system of Luxeons /= Wattages either.

The naming system of Luxeons is more of a marketing and/or generational thing.  K2's are over 6W's in Blues/Greens, yet the Red is less.  Wattages vary with how you drive them.

Ex. Even V's are 6W not 5W.  Look up their specs.

If I were the "Saber Overlord" (LOL) everyone would talk about lumens per watt.  That's FAR more interesting!

-------------------------------------

Goodman addressed something earlier that I want to touch on.

He said even though on paper it was like 7 times the brightness it was only 2 or so times by his eye.  He said this as a way to say lumens mean little... NOT SO!!! ;D

Our senses are logarithmic.  It's sort of a safety feature of our bodies so that things have to get drastically different for us to hear or see the change!  To see a 2x difference in logs it must be 10x difference linearly.

What does this mean?!?!  On a log scale 7x in a linear scale is about 50% on a log scale.  When you add in other variances like radiation patterns it's conceivable that the apparent difference is 2x???  See the science is correct!  It's just not intuitive.  :D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on August 12, 2009, 10:25:24 AM
I wired up a green 5w LEDengin yesterday using a MR Board, and a few things/questions/comments:

1. Solder Characteristic of the old K2's, hard to solder, but didn't really have time to experiment with other solder methods/solder type, I used solder w/rosin core.

2. The green is a nice shade, not REALLY deep, but not anywhere near as pastel as a P4. I like the shade.

3. I am not really noticing any significant brightness over a LUX III using a  Darth maul HFX Board.  Well, ..it IS brighter when compared to a LUX III, just not as much as I was hoping.

All in all, i think this is a good replacement for a Lux III and depending on how it gets powered, maybe even a good replacement for the LUX V. I Like them and will be adding them as an option to our builds.

I also have a few blues and 2 reds to test, but I really am a fan of the P4 counterparts of those colors.

It is so interesting how different people perceive color.  Eg. I do not find the P4 green pastel in any way.  To me it is a vibrant, rich green (maybe not as deep an emerald green as some bins of lux IIIs) and superior in brightness to a Lux III (Chewie, could you be using an Ultraedge for your testing?  If so, you might try a good regular blade also, as the Ultraedge makes everything sort of pastel :P).  The LedEngins in both green and blue appear lighter in shade (not exactly pastel, just lighter in hue) than their P4 counterparts to my eyes.  The LEDengins also appear noticeably brighter to my eye and we have driven them several different ways.  Having said that, MR boards can put out different ma which can effect brightness also. 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on August 12, 2009, 11:37:21 AM
Yes those are good points and the "wattage" description for LEDs isn't about the apparent brightness of output or even a measure of output efficiency as lumens-per-watt that XWing suggests could be but just a technical matter of input/consumption - can you imagine how dim a 5w incandescent bulb would be?

Thankfully LEDs are a whole other matter where Perceived brightness is concerned and highly subjectively variable from individual to individual...for example for my own use a bin 1 cyan LED in a given 'family' [to compare apples to apples] always appears brightest - to me - even though I read that theoretically green light is perceived as brighter by most people...and to my visual perception a bin 1 cyan Lux III saber looks brighter than even a red-orange Lux III saber, though I know theoretically the red-orange Lux III is putting out more than twice as many lumens.

Your mileage may vary eh? Perhaps I have some degree of 'colour blindness' or colour perception abnormality in perceiving red [I've always hated the colour red too] but I imagine that a lot of other people may have personal colour perception variances from the 'norm' also...so besides considering 'wattages' or 'lumens' in LED selection ones own personal colour/light sensitivity has to be taken into account in finding what produces the brightest [and most appealing] colour for one's' own sabers.

Whereas if one is building sabers for sale to the mass market then naturally one must take the perceptual 'norms' into account.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: darth_call on August 12, 2009, 11:52:10 AM

It is so interesting how different people perceive color.  Eg. I do not find the P4 green pastel in any way.  To me it is a vibrant, rich green (maybe not as deep an emerald green as some bins of lux IIIs) and superior in brightness to a Lux III (Chewie, could you be using an Ultraedge for your testing?  If so, you might try a good regular blade also, as the Ultraedge makes everything sort of pastel :P).  The LedEngins in both green and blue appear lighter in shade (not exactly pastel, just lighter in hue) than their P4 counterparts to my eyes.  The LEDengins also appear noticeably brighter to my eye and we have driven them several different ways.  Having said that, MR boards can put out different ma which can effect brightness also. 

Nope, I use a midgrade blade, (I'll have pics up later in the week). The only time I measure up LEDs using ultraEdge is when I have two seperate UltraEdge blades to test differences between LEDs, ...but usually only do this to pair a good blade with a hilt.

I have used P4 green 3 or 4 times and always see them as minty or pastel-ish. I have 2 LEDengin greens and both seem much deeper in tone than the P4.

I will test the blue LEDengin 5w either tonite or this weekend.

I'll meter this board tonite to see where it's at and also wire up a Green LEDengin to a buck puck to see the difference, may just be an underpowering board issue. It IS brighter than a LUX III, just not as much as I hoped and not close to a LUX V.



Onli-Wan,....to me as well, as Bin 1 Cyan Lx III is brighter than most greens. Green and cyans are brighter to me than any other color.



The bottom line to me will be variences in tone and shade. I like the P4 blue and red because they are deep, rich shades of the colors. I like Lux III Bin I Green because of the shade, but my next option would be a LEDengin.
I am looking forward to seeing the LEDengin 5W blue and red in person though.

color Shade means more to me than brightness.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on August 12, 2009, 11:54:39 AM
The LEDEngins are very current hungry.  Even a buckpuck, at 1000 isn't as much as it would like :D  We ran one off a CF and it was amazingly bright. 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: KI-ADI-MUNDI on August 12, 2009, 11:58:37 AM
The P4 green is to minty for me as well... How does the Color of the Green LEDengin 5 or 10 comparer to the LUX V ?...
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: darth_call on August 12, 2009, 12:01:01 PM
The P4 green is to minty for me as well... How does the Color of the Green LEDengin 5 or 10 comparer to the LUX V ?...

The shade of the 2 LEDengin 5w Green LEDs that I have now are slightly lighter in shade/tone than the only Green LUX V I currently have.

I guess I shoulda hooked these up to a US2 board and powered 7.4V and QDs so I could make a better comparision.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Master Jedye on August 12, 2009, 12:30:10 PM
 :-\
P4 greens are my favorite.  I don't see them as 'minty' at all.

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: KI-ADI-MUNDI on August 12, 2009, 12:39:07 PM
I'm gonna need a green for my Qui from JQ... so which one?.... the only green I seem like is the first LUX V green I ever got...it came with my Imperial Knight from US.... I've moved that LED through all my personal sabers as they have changed over the years... No #'s on the back so I have no idea of the bin...
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: JANGO FETT on August 12, 2009, 12:47:59 PM
I've been using Lux V Bin 3 in all my green sabers

check it against the bin chart
http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=18270.msg279259#msg279259 (http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=18270.msg279259#msg279259)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: KI-ADI-MUNDI on August 12, 2009, 12:53:22 PM
Wow based on that chart I'd say bin 3 cyan... Unless my eyes are just messed up all of the greens on the chart look to yellow to me....
Is anybody gonna use the LEDengin 10 in their Qui?...
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: JANGO FETT on August 12, 2009, 01:06:02 PM
I've been thinking about it. I have all the parts. I'm not sure about the ID of the saber.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Agash on August 13, 2009, 06:00:19 AM
Sorry for the larte reply.
I don´t have many pics of my Sabers online, but my till now most difficult one is online at TCSS.
http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?t=7378 (http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?t=7378)

This saber is running in 2 + 2 clashflash setup - Clashfash at 1A - normal Dies run at a bit more think it was close to 1.2A.
Even with the 2 die normal operation it is way brigther then a overdriven LUXIII.
The vid was done with normal room lighting and I was standing below the neon tube which enlightens my cellar.

Please remember I referr to Ledengin 10W red. I have earned a few cookies joining dark side ;)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: STARKILLER on August 13, 2009, 08:55:54 AM
Yes, I remember this saber ;D I thoroughly enjoyed this one. Great job again on it!

God I want that speaker!
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on August 13, 2009, 07:08:49 PM
Yes, yes, now we're talking! Input from multiple sources is good for us all.

xwingband, you're right of course. I was trying to emphasize that perceived brightness is, at least to me, more important that relying purely on stats on paper. It would be misleading for me to say "try these LEDs because the data sheet says they output X lumens". Instead, the data sheet should guide preparation of running the LED properly, but not necessarily dictate our expectation of its brightness. As we already know, so many other factors come into play at that point beyond what can be communicated by a lumen number (power, lens, blade, etc). So lumens, as I see them: important, yes. The whole story, no.  I'm sure we were saying the same thing, though yours sounded more clear ;)

Chewbacca, I'd be very interested to see wha current your MR board is outputting. As we all know MR board current output can vary widely across each unit, which can have a HUGE impact on the brightness you are seeing. In all my tests across LEDs note how I state I use 1A. I always hope I get lucky and find MR boards that output 1-1.2A. Sometimes I win, sometimes I don't (the lowest I ever metered was 700 off an MR Mace).

Generally speaking, I also try to often qualify from statements with "when properly driven". As Allerra said, these LedEngins can handle very high current (requires US or CF boards), which really unlocks their full brightness potential. 


As far as soldering them goes, here's my trick: The whole idea is to bring the PCB up to ~130 degrees so that the shallow solder pad flows easily. Simply touching the soldering iron first to the pad of a cold MPCB will leave you keeping it there for 30 seconds until the solder flows, all the while second guessing if you're damaging the component. This is the trick as told to me by LedEngin's tech, and it's simple, safe, and effective:

Suspend the LED with an alligator clip ("Helping Hands" setup) so that it doesn't touch anything else. Touch your soldering iron to the bottom of the MPCB for 5 seconds. Then, touch your soldering iron to the solder pad for three seconds until the pad solder "flows". It's VERY shallow so it isn't as noticeable as when soldering a Luxeon pad. At the instant it flows, add solder to the joint and release. Be careful of cold solder joints. By the time you've wired up the pads, let the MPCB cool for a minute before touching, as it's going to be toasty.


Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Sidneyious on August 13, 2009, 07:16:34 PM
Thanks for the info goodman and all who have used them and imputed here.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Agash on August 13, 2009, 10:45:54 PM
@FenderBender: Its a speaker created by http://www.uhlenbrock.de (http://www.uhlenbrock.de) for model Trains. Its the square 34mm version edges rounded and the MHS piece widened to fit. In my opinion its a perfect match.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on August 14, 2009, 12:15:10 PM
Allaerra, how long are you running the LedEngin at 1.2A continuous? 1.4/5A?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on August 14, 2009, 03:23:10 PM
Allaerra, how long are you running the LedEngin at 1.2A continuous? 1.4/5A?

We are back to speaking of 5W, yes?  These run for quite a long time.  The green we ran off the CF we got at least 40 mins. we had to play with it, a lot ;D 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: The Highwayman on August 14, 2009, 05:13:38 PM
Hey, guys, in New York State. I sent you another PM abotu two days ago goodman. Wasn't sure if you got it.

Allaerra, how long are you running the LedEngin at 1.2A continuous? 1.4/5A?

We are back to speaking of 5W, yes?  These run for quite a long time.  The green we ran off the CF we got at least 40 mins. we had to play with it, a lot ;D 

40 minutes.... Hmmm That's not bad... not bad at all... :D ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Agash on August 19, 2009, 12:50:13 AM
I am working with the Li Ion Batteries in size 18650 in my sabers. Because I am running the 10 Watt LED mostly as a about 5 Watt LED I have runtimes about 1,5h in continous use in CF sabers. Or 1h in case of 2+2 setup with US2 Board (this setup is underdriven, but runs at the max a US2 can provide)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Firedrops on August 19, 2009, 06:22:00 AM
hmm... just wondering... how would a 10w compare with a Hyperblade V2?

oh and where has goodman been? he hasn't replied to my emails for days.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on August 19, 2009, 08:36:00 AM
I am working with the Li Ion Batteries in size 18650 in my sabers. Because I am running the 10 Watt LED mostly as a about 5 Watt LED I have runtimes about 1,5h in continous use in CF sabers. Or 1h in case of 2+2 setup with US2 Board (this setup is underdriven, but runs at the max a US2 can provide)

Are they still much brighter than a Lux V by doing that?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Agash on August 20, 2009, 01:44:27 AM
since I am using red only - I say yes ;)
there is no red lux5
and due to the 4 die spec it is more flexible and with a good optic it blew out good power.
much Brighter then overdriven lux 3 paired with flexibility to have e.g. a clashflash.
for red i say that there are not so much options
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Salvatore1971 on August 23, 2009, 12:23:56 PM
Hi, guys.  ;D

This thread is very interesting! I have a few questions for you.

1. Do the tri-rebel LEDs and LedEngine LEDs 10W work with a US 2.1 board and the clash flash effect is available on both?

2. Do they still have the flicker effect, block effect and so on?

3. What about these LEDs with the new US2.5 features (if anyone knows it, obviously)?

Thanks.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on August 23, 2009, 01:00:17 PM
Hi, guys.  ;D

This thread is very interesting! I have a few questions for you.

1. Do the tri-rebel LEDs and LedEngine LEDs 10W work with a US 2.1 board and the clash flash effect is available on both?

2. Do they still have the flicker effect, block effect and so on?

3. What about these LEDs with the new US2.5 features (if anyone knows it, obviously)?

Thanks.

Both LEDs work on both boards.   However, the 10W LEDEngins in certain colors need either power extenders or alternate power management in order to fully run all 4 dies.  As X-wing has stated, Clash Flash is a CF feature not a US feature.  However, LED effects are a function of the soundboard, not the LED so effects that a soundboard supports can work with any LED with the exception of clash flash which requires either LEDs that have more than one die like RGBs, LEDEngins, and bi and tri rebels. 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: xwingband on August 23, 2009, 02:00:50 PM
Clash flash is pretty much a CF only feature so, no it can't be used on a Ultrasound.  Flicker, yes on both.

There hasn't been anything on new ultrasound features.  First, they should fix the problems it already has before adding any features IMO.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Salvatore1971 on August 23, 2009, 02:40:48 PM
Thanks to you all guys! :)

Too bad the clash flash effect is available on the CFs only!  :'(

To xwingband: Do you already know the new features of the US2.5? And what are the problems you are talking about? What is the price difference with the CF board?  ???

Thanks again.  ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: xwingband on August 23, 2009, 03:18:50 PM
Do you already know the new features of the US2.5? And what are the problems you are talking about? What is the price difference with the CF board?  ???

No, and I'm not affiliated with them in anyway.  I have no knowledge on them beyond what everyone else gets and I'm willing to bet even Ultrasabers doesn't have much on any new versions.

Problems?  The battery one got fixed, but that was present in the 2.0.  The switch one wasn't fixed and requires a low bounce switch or a capacitor to debounce the switch.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on August 23, 2009, 08:56:14 PM
Thanks to you all guys! :)

Too bad the clash flash effect is available on the CFs only!  :'(

To xwingband: Do you already know the new features of the US2.5? And what are the problems you are talking about? What is the price difference with the CF board?  ???

Thanks again.  ;D

The CF and Ultrasound are not that different in price but it depends on where you are.  Since you are in Europe and the Euro is strong compared to the dollar, the US board will be a good buy for you.  The last batch of CFs sold for 115 Euros and the last batch of USs sold for $119 USD.

They are both excellent soundcards.  However, the CF is much more feature packed than the US board.  Read up on both of them and you will understand what I mean. :D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Firedrops on August 24, 2009, 01:23:08 AM
grrr i don't get why do they make such small batches of 'em.. everyone knows 500 boards will be sold out in about in an hour once it gets online.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Sohryu76 on August 24, 2009, 02:23:52 AM
grrr i don't get why do they make such small batches of 'em.. everyone knows 500 boards will be sold out in about in an hour once it gets online.

oh is THAT why 50 disappear in a matter of seconds?
which is really how small the batches of CFs really are.
and why does Erv make so few? well he solders each one by hand!
Ultrasounds are made in bigger batches because they are made by a process..
but why not tons at a time?
well 1- Money...
and 2- because they are constantly evolving like the CF... if Ultra ordered thousands of them... they were sit around, and it would take longer for his next design change to come through... and since we are talking about electronics... they are constantly evolving... just like the CF board.
I mean we are going to hear soon about the new US 2.5 boards coming our way... so there were 5 revisions to these boards since the 2.0s were first announced.
you will get one just a matter of patience.

But really this has been discussed many times before, lets put this thread back on target!

I want comparison shots of more LEDengine LEDs vs others!
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on August 24, 2009, 03:13:39 PM
Yes, yes, "Stay...on... target..."


It should be mentioned that another benefit of LedEngin 5Ws is that they can be run at 1500ma. For those of us with soundboards which allow selectable current (CF and US), and who don't mind the dip in runtime/efficiency, you can really tap the true brightness potential of the LED.

Sohryu's saber on my bench, for example, will pair a USv2.1 and 4.8V pack to push 1500ma to a LedEngin 5W Green.

Comparison shots tomorrow night!
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Sohryu76 on August 24, 2009, 03:18:38 PM
Oh how you tease me with the knowledge of my saber sitting in your posession!

I'm sure we all are looking forward to more color comparison shots...
if not all of us, atleast I am!
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on August 26, 2009, 11:37:38 PM
Ah, finally had a few minutes to do a few more tests. RED and BLUE.

The main thing that is missing from the blue test is a BBW Tri-Rebel. If anyone has one they'd like to sell me (or trade for an RRB), please PM me :)

So to the tests...

Setup: All blades are 36" UltraEdges with mirrored tips. No poly C on these. All driven setups are 1000mA. Where MR boards were used, they were measured at ~1A+/- 50mA. I used my same channel method to capture the light and prevent intermixing between adjacent blades. All photos and videos were taken in a lit room (single overhead 75W bulb in the center of the room).

I'll be loading the VIDEOS tomorrow. For now, here are the pics:

RED

LEFT TO RIGHT: LedEngin 10W, Seoul P4, Luxeon 3, MR Maul. The Seoul P4 definitely looks nice, and is still the brightest-for-the-least-amount-of-power-required LED for red. The LE10W, however, --though it is hard to convey in pictures, really saturates the entire room with red, much more noticeably than the Seoul P4 does when held upright in the center of a room (another good test for enveloping brightness). But again, the LE10WR is using twice the voltage so that may not be worth it  or even possible for some projects.
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff285%2FAKD001%2FLED%2520Comparisons%2FRedMRvsL3vsP4vs10W.jpg&hash=e63e21da198569d322eae52c74ee6ea4ccea3ed4)

LEFT TO RIGHT: LE10WR, Luxeon 3, MR Maul. For newbies wondering why we prefer LED conversions of our MR/Hasbro sabers, 'nuff said.
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff285%2FAKD001%2FLED%2520Comparisons%2FRedMRvsL3vs10W.jpg&hash=d841fb054dd751173123a4d88d8bf81684cb126b)


BLUE

LEFT TO RIGHT: Single die of an LE10WRGBA @ 750A, Seoul P4, LedEngin 5W, MR OWK ROTS.   I really need to redo this test. Only afterwards did I realize the single die was being underdriven (for now, it's about as bright to the naked eye as a Luxeon 3 blue :(). Also, it is fair to assume that almost anyone using an LE10WRGBA will be driving it with either a US or CF board. Accordingly, they can tap higher current for this die, ~1.2A. The same goes for the LE5W. Side by side driven at 1A, the Seoul P4 has the upper hand. To be fair, I need to do a "max potential" comparison test showing the Seoul P4 overdriven at 1.2A, and the LE5W overdriven at 1.5A. At that point the LE5W becomes brighter to my eyes. That test would be useful for anyone who is considering using these in US/CF boards where the current is selectable. One of the videos I'll post tomorrow will show the yellow/white clash flash feature on the LE10WRGBA , which, to some people, will make up for the slight brightness loss in the solid color when compared to a single color LED.  Finally, as stated earlier I need a BBW, Cree, single Rebel, and LE10WB to show a full comparison across the board. 'Would be interesting to see where they fall in the lineup... 'any donations?  ::)

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff285%2FAKD001%2FLED%2520Comparisons%2FBlueMRvs5WvsP4vsRGBA.jpg&hash=3d32cdb3870a35fda962a85e576fef315c45c186)



...Shucks, is that it? I guess most of the past two hours were spent shooting video, not pics...  more later.  ;D


Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Agash on August 27, 2009, 02:08:57 AM
Just a question on the red Ledengin 10W - which optic was used for it ? Since it is a 4 die core it is not easy to get the right optic for it. I myself have tried 7 optics on it before I was satisfied. I ask because it seems that the optic you are using has a to wide angle.

Also the exact setup would be interesting.
I assume you drive a 2+2 setup at 1A. This will force constant underdriving the ledengin. If you do not want to use another driver I suggest to use just 2 of the four cores and squeeze 1A in it. It will be brighter then the 2+2 in such a case.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on August 27, 2009, 12:04:13 PM
Good points, Agash.

There are indeed better optics for the 10Ws, but the purpose of [at least this first series of] tests is NOT to show the max potential of the LED by itself (best optic + max current + optimal batt pack). Instead, the purpose is to show the LED against other LEDs using the same optic that's commonly used by a majority of the saber community. This is the 10 degree lens commonly available at TCSS. I also use 1A buckpucks across the board to ensure the current is standardized, and also ensure each LED has more than enough forward voltage depending on each die's spec. In the case of the 10W Red, the bin I have needs 9.6V for all four dice, so I have all four dice wired in series on 11.1V and a 1A buck. More than enough.

As stated before, once these standardized tests are complete, I'll do another series of tests showing max potential (best optic, overdriven, etc). THAT will be very instructive about the importance of optimizing.

The reason why I decided to start with a standardized test instead of the Max test is because the majority of our community uses MRFX boards, which vary rather greatly in current output. More to the point, they cannot select for current; as we know only the US and CF boards can do that. Unfortunately, these LedEngins perform best around 1.5A, above what essentially all MRFX boards can produce, and so that Max test is really only going to be of value to those of us with US and CF boards who can actually tap that kind of current. For everyone else, though it may be nice to see what it looks like at 1.5A, they really should pay more attention to what it looks like around 1A, because with an MR that's closer to what they're going to see. The last thing I need is for a customer to see the video of a LedEngin blue at 1.5A and say "hey I want that in my MRFX", only to be disappointed when they see it in real life realizing that they're only seeing 1A.


'Need to manage people's expectations. ;)

I'll say it again, the LedEngin single colors aren't necessarily going to blow their counterparts of the water when driven with equal current. It's at higher current that they really excel. At equal current, they are similar to P4s in brightness, if not oh so slightly less depending on which color. I'm highlighting them here simply as another option to consider when planning one's next build. Value in information.   :D




THAT ALL BEING SAID, here are a couple videos!

MR Maul vs L3R vs P4R
&NR=1

MR Obi vs LE5WB vs P4B vs single B die from LE10WRGBA



P4B vs single B die from LE10WRGBA with USv2 shimmer and manual GA clash

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: pneumoniaprone on August 27, 2009, 12:14:51 PM
Thanks for taking the time to show us your results Goodman. I have been and will continue to follow this thread.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: wookieecrisp on August 27, 2009, 01:51:56 PM
Great pics and vids Goodman. I didn't even notice the MR Maul was there until you said so! :D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on August 27, 2009, 02:17:45 PM
Great pics and vids Goodman. I didn't even notice the MR Maul was there until you said so! :D
Exactly what he said. ;D

We are very glad with you here.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Agash on August 27, 2009, 02:50:16 PM
Your right 11,1 Volt is enough. The problem is just that 4 core LEDs need really good lenses to focus the light equal then single core LEDs.

One suggestion for the Lens of 4 Core LEDs

Carclo fibre optics lense - its ment for focusing light beams into fibre, but with the wide spread of a 4 core LED it acts more like a 5 degree lense.

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on August 27, 2009, 05:58:33 PM
Yeah, I've tried a couple of optics from Carclo (www.carclo-optics.com for those who are curious).

In my optics tests with 10Ws (six different optic setups) I ended up leaning towards an optic that was designed specifically for the 10W, although unfortunately it is slightly wider and taller than standard optics most people use in their sabers so it's a tough fit into a saber hilt.


Good suggestions, keep 'em coming.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Gallius Vain on September 02, 2009, 10:17:04 PM
im in the process of making a 10 watt green. am putting a vader board in as well on a completely seprate power source. its not running the led, my 4 trust fires are. think of it as a completly seperate unit. but im thinkin this will be cool. can the green take 14.8 volts and 1000 ma instead of its rated 14.4 700ma? just wonderin. PM me.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Sohryu76 on September 02, 2009, 10:46:34 PM
im in the process of making a 10 watt green. am putting a vader board in as well on a completely seprate power source. its not running the led, my 4 trust fires are. think of it as a completly seperate unit. but im thinkin this will be cool. can the green take 14.8 volts and 1000 ma instead of its rated 14.4 700ma? just wonderin. PM me.

Check out page 4 on this: http://www.ledengin.com/products/10wLZ/LZ4-00G110.pdf
the answer you seek is yes...
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Agash on September 03, 2009, 02:52:32 AM
confirmed.
YES it can handle this amount.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Gallius Vain on September 03, 2009, 01:50:34 PM
SAWEET! awsomeness man this saber is going to be so flippin bright. wow.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on September 03, 2009, 02:01:05 PM
Please post pictures and a review once you have it up and running. Are you using the independently addressable model, or the series model?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LANDO CALRISSIAN on September 03, 2009, 03:31:16 PM
I have been playing around with a Blue 10w. I had it hooked up to my variable power supply and was controlling the Amps. When I got to 1 Amp the voltage was reading 15.8 V. I have also had it hooked up to a 1000 buck puck with 3 14500 for 12V. The power supply was noticeable brighter however the Buck puck was impressive still. I am sorry I can't post pics just yet of what I'm working on.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on September 03, 2009, 04:14:52 PM
Good to hear. Do you have another blue saber to compare it to? At least for a written comparison pending pics.

How are you going to setup your saber?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LANDO CALRISSIAN on September 03, 2009, 05:09:31 PM
If I was a "Good man"  ;) ;) I might check another forum  ;)  to see some of what I'm talking about. ;) ;)
I use Vegi-oil to give it that look. ;)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Gallius Vain on September 03, 2009, 08:48:23 PM
Please post pictures and a review once you have it up and running. Are you using the independently addressable model, or the series model?

deffinatley post pics when done. ill also try and make a tut. i have to say this will put my skillz to the test
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on September 03, 2009, 11:42:25 PM
If I was a "Good man"  ;) ;) I might check another forum  ;)  to see some of what I'm talking about. ;) ;)
I use Vegi-oil to give it that look. ;)

Vegi-oil has to be one of the best sabersmith materials I've ever worked with!
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Sohryu76 on September 04, 2009, 12:01:28 AM
Really? Six 10W sabers already?  (statement on another thread)
Guess I need to catch up with the times...

wow... really wow...

and I thought it was cool to just look at running two dice with a US 2.1 lol...
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Gallius Vain on September 06, 2009, 08:00:40 PM
i know right? 6??? hes a 10 watt inspiration to the rest of us rookie sabersmiths. i wonder what surprise is in store for us regarding 15 watters? 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Sohryu76 on September 06, 2009, 08:39:16 PM
i know right? 6??? hes a 10 watt inspiration to the rest of us rookie sabersmiths. i wonder what surprise is in store for us regarding 15 watters? 
a lightsaber that really will melt your face off...
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Master Durangus on September 06, 2009, 08:43:17 PM
i know right? 6??? hes a 10 watt inspiration to the rest of us rookie sabersmiths. i wonder what surprise is in store for us regarding 15 watters? 
a lightsaber that really will melt your face off...

Finally! 8)

Looking great Goodman, I'm impressed so far! Though I think my favorite blue is still the Cree XRE blue. Looking forward to seeing more pictures from various people! ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: xwingband on September 06, 2009, 08:58:11 PM
Times haven't changed... multi-die high watt LEDs have always existed.  IMO they're still the same, which is impractical.  They require designing the saber around to use.  More watts isn't a solution to brighter sabers.  It's a shortcut.

Ideally we want less for more.  Less watts of power for more light, that's a much slower technological path.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on September 06, 2009, 11:25:37 PM
Thanks all. I'm definitely not the first to use LedEngin 10Ws, I just like playing with them to see where they fit among the current crop of LEDs we use. As I said in the very first post of this thread, Mad Hatter was the first guy I saw on TCSS with a LedEngin 10W in a saber. Credit where credit is due ;)

Durangus, I do like the Cree blue, too. I've only seen it on one saber that passed my bench though. One day, I'll need to do a FULL color comparison between Lux, Seoul, Cree, Rebel, LedEngin, etc.

The 15W is BRIGHT, but 1) mounting it in a saber is a major challenge, 2) the correct optic for it is very wide and is a major challenge to integrate convincingly into a saber, 3) power requirements are off the charts. For those reasons, though pictures of a prototype are on their way, and they're tasty in the short run, xwingband is right, the truly "next step" in LED brightness will have to come from EFFICIENCIES in power, output, and light collimation. 


But in the meantime....  ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on September 07, 2009, 12:24:21 AM
The six finished 10W lightsabers,... are we going to see them? :D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on September 07, 2009, 03:48:08 PM
I've read all through this thread again and unless I missed it I didnt see any mention of combination of series and parallel wiring for the individually-addressable versions of the LEDEngin 10W?

The reason I ask is that the specs for the new US 2.5 seem to have dropped the max input voltage from 12V to 9.6V so that tri-rebels can no longer be wired in series with US 2.5  :'(

Therefore I'm thinking one might wire the individually addressible die version of say the 10W LedEngin green using a combination of series and parallel so that each of the 4 green dies would get 750ma on the K2 setting while using 7.2V/8.4V battery solutions thus within the input voltage maximum of US 2.5.

4 dies x 750ma should be similar in brightness to 3 emitters x 1000ma and now that trirebels in series are no longer supported by US 2.5 I'm guessing that a combination wiring of 10W LedEngin may be as bright as it can get for a US 2.5?

Or am I misunderstanding something?

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Gallius Vain on September 07, 2009, 07:11:24 PM
I've read all through this thread again and unless I missed it I didnt see any mention of combination of series and parallel wiring for the individually-addressable versions of the LEDEngin 10W?

The reason I ask is that the specs for the new US 2.5 seem to have dropped the max input voltage from 12V to 9.6V so that tri-rebels can no longer be wired in series with US 2.5  :'(

Therefore I'm thinking one might wire the individually addressible die version of say the 10W LedEngin green using a combination of series and parallel so that each of the 4 green dies would get 750ma on the K2 setting while using 7.2V/8.4V battery solutions thus within the input voltage maximum of US 2.5.

4 dies x 750ma should be similar in brightness to 3 emitters x 1000ma and now that trirebels in series are no longer supported by US 2.5 I'm guessing that a combination wiring of 10W LedEngin may be as bright as it can get for a US 2.5?

Or am I misunderstanding something?




woah.....hang on my heads still spinning... im going to go take a nap.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on September 07, 2009, 08:08:46 PM
Haha well my head was spinning after reading all 9 pages of this [theres a LOT of great data here] so I'm not sure if I expressed that idea the best way but I hope it was comprehensible?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Agash on September 08, 2009, 10:18:16 AM
You will come close to the tri rebel setup with a 2+2 10W LEDengin setup. It depends on which color or which bin it is. A good driven 10W Ledengin is somewhere between 5W normal LEDs and above.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on September 08, 2009, 12:23:59 PM
Onli-won the LEDEngins prefer much higher current so reducing the amperage is a poor option unfortunately.  It doesn't make any sense to reduce the brightness that much, at that point it would be easier to go with a P4 or something else. 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on September 08, 2009, 12:45:39 PM
Onli-won the LEDEngins prefer much higher current so reducing the amperage is a poor option unfortunately.  It doesn't make any sense to reduce the brightness that much, at that point it would be easier to go with a P4 or something else. 

Agreed. ;)

If your particular setup cannot give these LedEngins the current they want (due to either board or battery limits) , their benefit is diminished because you simply won't see the visible increase in brightness, and so you're better off with a P4 green, blue, or red.  Don't get a LedEngin just for the sake of it being a LedEngin. Consider is an option, but don't force it if your setup won't reap the benefits.

'Sorry to hear the USv2.5 can only take 9.6V now... is that confirmed?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: JANGO FETT on September 08, 2009, 01:04:23 PM
It's listed in the specs on the website.

http://www.ultrasabers.com/product_p/usb25.htm (http://www.ultrasabers.com/product_p/usb25.htm)

Quote
Battery input voltage.
Maximum for board = 9.6V
Minimum for Luxeon 3 and K2 = 4.5V
Minimum for Luxeon 5 = 7.2V
IMPORTANT! (be sure to use the correct voltage/power with corresponding LED type)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on September 08, 2009, 02:57:29 PM
Am I looking at the right spec sheet here?

http://www.ledengin.com/products/10wLZ/LZ4-00G110.pdf

Because from looking at the luminous flux table it seems that the [u-bin] "typical" lumens at 1000ma is 759.

They give a range not a "typical" for 700ma of 556 - 695 lumens but from that I am extrapolating that in my example for 750ma should be somewhere around 600 lumens.

Yes y'all are right that would be an approximate 20% brightness drop using a combination of series and parallel compared to the ideal of using a fully series wiring schema [that US can't support anymore than it can a tri-rebel now -sigh-] but to be able to get around 600 lumens green with Ultrasound is still nothing to sneeze at methinks?

And if not ideal for the 10w LEDEngin still a heck of a lot brighter than a P4 or Lux V eh?

I do feel like I may be missing something and will probably look really stupid to y'all and feel that way myself too but I'm still not 'getting' it...what am I missing?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on September 08, 2009, 04:00:44 PM
We typically overdrive LEDs in general.  Whether it be a Lux, a P4, or a LEDEngin we often are giving it more current than what it is rated for.  You are correct that it might be a bit brighter than a P4 but is an awful lot of trouble to go to for not that much gain.  These LEDs do best when they are given a lot of current.  They are hungry for it. 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on September 08, 2009, 04:32:59 PM
Adding to what Allerra said and answering your question about an "unidealized" 10W setup still being a "heck of a lot brighter", the short answer is "no, not really." It depends greatly on color. And optics setup.

A P4 red overdriven to 1.5A is bright. To some people's eyes, brighter than a 10W red @1A. To my eyes, when both are at 1.5A, I see the 10W to be brighter. But as Allaerra said, there's a lot of work behind the 10W, whereas the P4 was more "plug and play".

A P4 blue overdriven at 1.5 is also very bright. But, a 10W blue at 1A to my eyes is brighter. At 1.5A, even brighter still.

A P4 green overdriven at 1.5A is also very brighter. But again, a 10W green at 1A, and then at 1.5A is very noticeably brighter.


The point? 

Well, as stated before, it is nearly impossible to get an "apple to apple" comparison to say anything truly definitive of any LED in comparison to its peers beyond basic impressions. There are so many variables --color, optics, current (i.e. what board), overdriving ranges, voltage, hilt space, bins....  So often I'll get a PM to the effect of "will the 10W be five times brighter with an MR board" or "is the red P4 better than a LE5W green which one should I put in my Hasbro Dooku?". Frankly, questions like these are missing the point.


The bottom line is that people will just have to TRY them for themselves to weigh the advantages/disadvantages. Or,  request their sabersmith to install one in their next build. It's no different from when the we went from Star Os to LuxIII, then came LuxVs and Rebels and Seouls, oh my... :)

 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on September 08, 2009, 04:39:20 PM
The point? 

Well, as stated before, it is nearly impossible to get an "apple to apple" comparison to say anything truly definitive of any LED in comparison to its peers beyond basic impressions. There are so many variables --color, optics, current (i.e. what board), overdriving ranges, voltage, hilt space, bins....  So often I'll get a PM to the effect of "will the 10W be five times brighter with an MR board" or "is the red P4 better than a LE5W green which one should I put in my Hasbro Dooku?". Frankly, questions like these are missing the point.


The bottom line is that people will just have to TRY them for themselves to weigh the advantages/disadvantages. Or,  request their sabersmith to install one in their next build. It's no different from when the we went from Star Os to LuxIII, then came LuxVs and Rebels and Seouls, oh my... :)

Well said.  A lot of it is somewhat subjective also as people's own eyes seem to perceive brightness differently from one person to the next.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on September 08, 2009, 05:29:41 PM

A P4 red overdriven to 1.5A is bright. To some people's eyes, brighter than a 10W red @1A. To my eyes, when both are at 1.5A, I see the 10W to be brighter. But as Allaerra said, there's a lot of work behind the 10W, whereas the P4 was more "plug and play".

A P4 blue overdriven at 1.5 is also very bright. But, a 10W blue at 1A to my eyes is brighter. At 1.5A, even brighter still.

A P4 green overdriven at 1.5A is also very brighter. But again, a 10W green at 1A, and then at 1.5A is very noticeably brighter.


Are you comparing those overdriven P4s to 10W LEDEngins wired in series or in parallel?

Because I can certainly understand 4 dies in parallel thus each being WAY 'underdriven' being marginal or even less bright than a single emitter being overdriven..but I'm having a hard time with 4 dies each a LITTLE underdriven at 750ma for a total of SIX HUNDRED lumens is little brighter than a single emitter, even overdriven, at maybe 200 lumens a THIRD as many?

I do understand that perception is subjective and human senses arent linear and lumens arent everything but they must be SOMEthing or LEDs wouldnt be industry rated in lumens at all eh?...afterall isn't a Lux V brighter than a Lux III because it has 4 dies even though they are driven at only 700 ma instead of 1000 and can thus double or better the lumens so we see Lux V as significantly brighter than Lux III...wouldnt the same principle apply to 10W LedEngins which like Lux V are also 4 dies under a single dome?

I hope I'm not coming off as 'disagreeable' which is not my intention, I really am just trying to 'grasp' the LOGIC of all this, and appreciate everyone's assistance...Thanks...maybe I need to reread this whole thread a THIRD time and hope it doesnt get my head spinning even more lol.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on September 08, 2009, 06:17:21 PM
Even I reread this thread from time to time, and heck, I'm the one who mostly wrote it!

You're not coming off as disagreeable at all, the point of this thread is to discuss these LEDs, so I'm happy to engage your questions.

Your logic is on the right track. Yes, under optimum conditions they are brighter, and should be brighter, yada yada. There are however two keys to consider which explain much of the dissonance between what "should be" according to the "numbers", and what "is" according to your eyes.

The first is optics. I can tell you from first hand experience that an optic built specifically by LedEngin for the LedEngin 10W, that is, specifically designed to capture the light from all four dice and throw it forward ~18 degrees at ~90% efficiency, certainly ENVELOPS a room with light of that particular die color. However, that optic is nearly twice the width of the "standard" lens that is commonly used in sabers today. Throw it in one of those ten degree optics, and bottle it up with a 1" blade, and efficiency drops. To the point where it is still "ouch, that's bright", but visibly less than what is was throwing against the wall without the inefficient optic.   It's an interesting effect, to be sure: in a dark room a 10W green for example, all in series @15V, at 1.5A, with the factory optic and no blade, is nearly blinding. Now, swap in a standard ten degree optic try it again. This time, though the color on the walls is probably near the same, the blade itself isn't as bright as your brain would *suspect* it would be.

My unscientific theory on why that is the case? Again, optics. The light over four dice isn't being collected into a beam with our standard optics as well as those standard optics collect the light from, say, a single die placed directly in the center of the lens. The 10W can still show brighter than most LEDs, but again, not to its FULL potential. This resulting discrepancy, between what an LED produces and what an LED produces in a blade is often the effect that I attribute when I start hearing people say "but on paper I thought it was going to be way brighter". You're correct, lumens mean a lot, but frankly, they weren't written for us. Ultimately those industry figures do not and cannot take into account that we are shoving these LEDs into tight spaces with optics trying to do what frankly they were not designed to do. Accordingly, at least to my mind "lumens" becomes more of a "guideline", and not a rule, when it comes to projecting how an LED will perform when mounted in a saber hilt.  People wonder why I spend so much money buying LEDs to test them out in blades...well, that's why. Only when mounted in a blade, ceteris paribus, will my eyes be able to fairly gauge how the LED will perform.

And, to answer your other question, all my LED testing assures that the LED is getting its recommended forward voltage. On a bench supply, providing 16V is easy. It's putting it in a hilt which is another issue.

Which bring up the second reason [in my opinion] that helps to reconcile the "paper vs. perceived" light output of 10W LedEngins, and of LEDs in general. Proper driving. You'll notice if you ever read a bunch of my posts that I am very fond of the phrase "properly driven". Simply said, a LedEngin 5W green will be the same level as a Seoul P4 green if both were driven from the same MR board with the same voltage and same current. In our hobby, only very few soundboards allow us to regulate current to the point where we're actually feeding the LEDs what they want to really overcome the optic inefficiencies and notwithstanding throw around a lot of light. As Allaerra said, these LedEngins are hungry. Also true is the fact that the saber hilts we use introduce a limitation on the size of batteries we can use that can support the discharge rates we're talking about here. Ever try to pull 1.7A out of a Li-ion 14500 for long? Not going to happen. 18650s are great, but hey, that's quite a long hilt you have there.

The bottom line in this part of the discussion is that the very nature of our hobby/application limits the efficiency ceiling whereby we [or I myself] can reasonably expect to achieve. As Xwingband said in the last page or two, and I agreed, the true long term strides in LEDs as it pertains to our sabers will have to come from efficiencies in power/current consumption and optics.

I'll end this current tirade with one anecdote. Speaking with one of LedEngin's techs, I randomly asked "so the 10W blending lens best performs at what distance from the dice?" His answer: "ten feet."

Bright is bright, but let's be reasonable, friends :)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on September 09, 2009, 05:33:36 AM
I'll end this current tirade with one anecdote. Speaking with one of LedEngin's techs, I randomly asked "so the 10W blending lens best performs at what distance from the dice?" His answer: "ten feet."

But than my saber is long enough to tap on the doors of my neighbors across the street, hahaha.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Koza on September 09, 2009, 08:00:11 AM
For the sake of argument, go with me on this. I don't plan on doing it, but would be cool to see someone try if it actually would give a good presentation.

So, taking into account that with blade and optics, an LedEngin LED (lets say 15w for the xxx of it), may or may not provide the best presentation in a blade to a certain person's eye, and consumes power like a hungery wampa on a pack of cornered tauntauns.

So, if a person who wanted said saber with a 15w LedEngin, were to use an external power source, say along the lines of an archaic lightsaber style (power cord to power pack on belt)? The saber itself would then, theoretically (I'm a novice here mind you, so kick me if I'm wrong), could then be devoted to driving the 15w with the correctly over sized power pack feeding it all the tauntaun power the wampa can chew.

Would this work? 10w, 15w, P4, Lux, ect... given proper optics, blade, heat sink (lord knows), driver, ect (sound or not)...could the proper LED to be used in this fashion powered like this give a good presentation in it's blade? Good coverage, brightness vs blade diffusion, ect. What do you think? Or am I competely off my rocker and I have no idea what I'm talking about? ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: xwingband on September 09, 2009, 08:20:13 AM
No, not "off your rocker".  That's been done before on sabers and is probably the easiest way to go about it.

Notes:

I agree with Goodman that multi-dies doesn't focus as well.  It's the nature of them and you notice it more on my tri-rebels since they aren't even under a single dome.  Same with V's... they're awesome for flood lights, but spot concentrated things take work.  Personally I'd like to see a reflector tuned for one since I've gotten great results with them when I've experimented.  Sadly my experimenting time and budget is nill right now.

Also... if you change the current it's no longer XX amount of watts.  I don't like that designation system.  Maybe as a max rating, like 30k mile tires or whatever, but LED makers need to stop it.  It just doesn't much sense and only adds to confusion.  Overdrive the LED, what is it now? LOL
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on September 09, 2009, 08:42:50 AM
For the sake of argument, go with me on this. I don't plan on doing it, but would be cool to see someone try if it actually would give a good presentation.

So, taking into account that with blade and optics, an LedEngin LED (lets say 15w for the xxx of it), may or may not provide the best presentation in a blade to a certain person's eye, and consumes power like a hungery wampa on a pack of cornered tauntauns.

So, if a person who wanted said saber with a 15w LedEngin, were to use an external power source, say along the lines of an archaic lightsaber style (power cord to power pack on belt)? The saber itself would then, theoretically (I'm a novice here mind you, so kick me if I'm wrong), could then be devoted to driving the 15w with the correctly over sized power pack feeding it all the tauntaun power the wampa can chew.

Would this work? 10w, 15w, P4, Lux, ect... given proper optics, blade, heat sink (lord knows), driver, ect (sound or not)...could the proper LED to be used in this fashion powered like this give a good presentation in it's blade? Good coverage, brightness vs blade diffusion, ect. What do you think? Or am I competely off my rocker and I have no idea what I'm talking about? ;D

So, you put on your rocketsuit, wire up your sabercanon, light it up and beeing ready to fight,...
than your opponent runs like crazy.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on September 09, 2009, 11:05:42 AM
Koza,

Anything is possible.

Don't mean to nitpick here, but there are other obstacles that your hypothetical situation introduces. The first is back to the optic. The factory designed 10/15W optic is 18 degrees, so you're still suffering huge inefficiencies and light loss. But fine, you said you don't care about that.

So you've got the best optic made, and a 15W mounted up in a custom hilt, running off an external power source (because trust me it WILL feed like the wampa you described). Almost there.

The last obstacle? Heat.

Essentially your entire saber will need to be designed to be a heatsink. Well, they all are/should be, technically, but I am talking about a 6" solid copper core that is finned, with adequate connection to the outer saber body to wick heat away from the LED, and also vented saber body itself to allow that heat to dissipate (swinging action creates an air cooled effect). What's the end result? I can tell you personal experience, it results in a very, very warm saber. Normally, when your saber emitter area is getting slightly warm, it's because you know your heatsink is working. That's a good thing. But when so much heat is being wicked away from the LED and into the saber body, which you're holding, it can get uncomfortable. Possible workaround? Browning .30 cal machine gun style air cooled jacket design for the saber's outer body.

If you're fine with that challenge/concession, too, then congrats, you've finally arrived at a 15W properly optic'd adequately heatsinked properly driven external power supplied saber. Have at it :)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on September 09, 2009, 11:58:41 AM
A very good saber for in the snow, and ice fishing.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Koza on September 09, 2009, 12:08:33 PM
Nah, just thought I'd throw that out there. Anyone else wanna give this one a try for laughs and giggles? lol Figured it'd need a massive heatsink though. OH! Perfect. Hand warmer for the cold fall time cons and events, and cold late night trick or treating lol

15W Just sounds like overkill anyways. Just to keep the ball rolling in case someone does use this LED (not the archaic saber thing I said, just any saber in general)... Could be a pain, but couldn't a person custom make an optic? Send out for it maybe?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Gallius Vain on September 09, 2009, 12:24:53 PM
wow looks like a lot of discussion. got my vader conversion kit but im going have to machine my own copper heatsink for it. the one thatcame with the TCSS kit is WAY to thin for a 10 watt. so ill machine one about an inch thick with a slot and through holes for an easilly mounted fan. im anxious to see how bright this 10 watt green will be at 14.8 volts and 1 full amp.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on September 09, 2009, 01:06:15 PM
"15W Just sounds like overkill anyways. Just to keep the ball rolling in case someone does use this LED (not the archaic saber thing I said, just any saber in general)... Could be a pain, but couldn't a person custom make an optic? Send out for it maybe?"


Koza,

That's being explored.

In the case of the 15W, keep in mind that it is not mounted on a PCB star, unlike all other LEDs we currently use in our hobby. An adequate heatsink that also fits in a saber hilt is a tough challenge. Not impossible, but certainly scratching the ceiling of "what makes sense to spend my time doing"


But that's more talk for the clouds.


Does anyone else yet have info they can contribute to the discussion of the LedEngin 5Ws, which as others has confirmed is a direct swap for MRFX sabers?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: The Highwayman on September 09, 2009, 02:13:39 PM
All I can say is when i get my heatsinks from you Goodman, I have a project to work on with potentially a 5-watt blue If the funds become available. ;) ;D

I'd have to say that the ice fishing lightsaber hilt is a good idea... :D ;D I haven't looked at the spec sheet, but those must be something of an LED... It sounds like a whole mess of trouble to do one up right though... But in theory it is possible isn't it... With a whole lot of planning and some very large batteries... you could do a corded hilt like the "early" Jedi weapons and wear the power pack on your back.

Just an idea. When this stupid recession lifts, then I will definitely be playing with these some. The 5 and ten watts hold my interest ,but the 15 sounds like it might be fun to mess with in a larger, more functional application, such as lighting a room.

Speaking of which, Goodman, you have a PM from last night. ;) 8)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: xwingband on September 09, 2009, 02:49:03 PM
im anxious to see how bright this 10 watt green will be at 14.8 volts and 1 full amp.

14.8V x 1 Amp = 14.8W

See why I have said here and numerous other threads that wattage is a horrible way to say what LED you're using???

Also another reason I pointed out that efficiency is the real future is because the more light you are getting out of it for the same power, less is going to heat!  So until the theoretical max of energy to light is achieved it will only get better for our small applications. ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Gallius Vain on September 14, 2009, 09:53:04 PM
hey guys well finally got my trustfires.... 14500s. now i just hooked these direct from the batteries straight outa the package so there not fully charged... at least i dont think. since theres no puck its only getting 700ma. well heres the pics... i had my aviators on but i think i shoulda used my welding mask... i still FEEL and SEE that i should. *blinks at green spot in middle of vision* that was an hour ago....

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi420.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp286%2FDJMoonbass%2F10%2520watt%2520green%2520pics%2FP1000330.jpg&hash=79ece45e05eb0054f79ca8eb8e677106296fc74c)

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi420.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp286%2FDJMoonbass%2F10%2520watt%2520green%2520pics%2FP1000332.jpg&hash=a23178c8b4ae5a743f9527fd3677357aed41cf18)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on September 15, 2009, 02:32:43 AM


There are however two keys to consider which explain much of the dissonance between what "should be" according to the "numbers", and what "is" according to your eyes.

The first is optics. I can tell you from first hand experience that an optic built specifically by LedEngin for the LedEngin 10W, that is, specifically designed to capture the light from all four dice and throw it forward ~18 degrees at ~90% efficiency, certainly ENVELOPS a room with light of that particular die color. However, that optic is nearly twice the width of the "standard" lens that is commonly used in sabers today. Throw it in one of those ten degree optics, and bottle it up with a 1" blade, and efficiency drops...

...The light over four dice isn't being collected into a beam with our standard optics as well as those standard optics collect the light from, say, a single die placed directly in the center of the lens. The 10W can still show brighter than most LEDs, but again, not to its FULL otential. This resulting discrepancy, between what an LED produces and what an LED produces in a blade is often the effect that I attribute when I start hearing people say "but on paper I thought it was going to be way brighter"...

...Only when mounted in a blade, ceteris paribus, will my eyes be able to fairly gauge how the LED will perform.

Brilliant post, Thank You, and yes that makes a lot of sense to me and I see now where my errors were, especially in thinking because it was under one dome like a Lux V that it 'should' avoid the optics issues of tri-rebels and Endors and scale up brightness gains similarly...I didn't appreciate it had its own different optics issues...DOH! on me but its much easier for me to understand the by-the-numbers/perceived-results gap now.

Yes ceteris paribus is very important and one reason why expert experimental observation such as yours and Allaerra's and others who have used these trumps theoreticians' 'paper' hypotheses since IRL all too often everything else is not equal...now I can understand much better why in this particular case that is so, and lumen gains are not necessarily being visibly realized for our applications "in a tube". My cognitive dissonance is relieved!

You have well 'schooled' me on this and I thank you for the teaching Master.  ;)  :)  :D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on September 15, 2009, 07:00:58 AM
hey guys well finally got my trustfires.... 14500s. now i just hooked these direct from the batteries straight outa the package so there not fully charged... at least i dont think. since theres no puck its only getting 700ma. well heres the pics... i had my aviators on but i think i shoulda used my welding mask... i still FEEL and SEE that i should. *blinks at green spot in middle of vision* that was an hour ago....

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi420.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp286%2FDJMoonbass%2F10%2520watt%2520green%2520pics%2FP1000330.jpg&hash=79ece45e05eb0054f79ca8eb8e677106296fc74c)

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi420.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp286%2FDJMoonbass%2F10%2520watt%2520green%2520pics%2FP1000332.jpg&hash=a23178c8b4ae5a743f9527fd3677357aed41cf18)

Sylus, you are confusing amperage (ma) with mah, which is your runtime.  The two are not the same.  You would need to measure your draw. 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Gallius Vain on September 15, 2009, 09:47:24 AM
umm. well im direct feeding the LED from my 14500s. so the LED is only drawing what it needs: 700 ma. 7/10 of a full amp: my current. the 14500s are 900 mah (my runtime) so without using a puck i should get a run time of little less then about 25 minutes according to my info...

i plan to BOOST the current to the led from 7/10th of an amp to 1 full amp using a 1000ma buckpuck....

so that will lower my runtime but increase current draw thus making the LED brighter....

i know for a fact that i have ALOT to learn about electricity paths but i feel i understand some and im steadilly getting the hang of it...  ;)

i see that im using just  a standard lens and thus reducing efficiency. pitty. :( how wide is the LEDengin optics anyway? i might be able to mod my conversion kit. afterall i do machine: i can widen it. then re thread it and make a better heatsink.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: JANGO FETT on September 15, 2009, 09:53:37 AM
hey guys well finally got my trustfires.... 14500s. now i just hooked these direct from the batteries straight outa the package so there not fully charged... at least i dont think. since theres no puck its only getting 700ma. well heres the pics... i had my aviators on but i think i shoulda used my welding mask... i still FEEL and SEE that i should. *blinks at green spot in middle of vision* that was an hour ago....

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi420.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp286%2FDJMoonbass%2F10%2520watt%2520green%2520pics%2FP1000330.jpg&hash=79ece45e05eb0054f79ca8eb8e677106296fc74c)

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi420.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp286%2FDJMoonbass%2F10%2520watt%2520green%2520pics%2FP1000332.jpg&hash=a23178c8b4ae5a743f9527fd3677357aed41cf18)

Are you trying to blind yourself? Wearing sunglasses is not enough protection.
Optics and blades help protect your eyes.

Please tell you haven't purchased a 10W UV and done this.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on September 15, 2009, 10:31:21 AM
umm. well im direct feeding the LED from my 14500s. so the LED is only drawing what it needs: 700 ma. 7/10 of a full amp: my current. the 14500s are 900 mah (my runtime) so without using a puck i should get a run time of little less then about 25 minutes according to my info...

i plan to BOOST the current to the led from 7/10th of an amp to 1 full amp using a 1000ma buckpuck....

so that will lower my runtime but increase current draw thus making the LED brighter....

i know for a fact that i have ALOT to learn about electricity paths but i feel i understand some and im steadilly getting the hang of it...  ;)

i see that im using just  a standard lens and thus reducing efficiency. pitty. :( how wide is the LEDengin optics anyway? i might be able to mod my conversion kit. afterall i do machine: i can widen it. then re thread it and make a better heatsink.

Sylus, I am not professing to be an electronics guru myself.  For that we need Erv', Goodman or Eandori.  However, I do not see where you are getting that it only takes 700 ma?  A lot of LEDs will pull 1A if they can, or even more.  LEDEngins will definitely pull much more if they can get it.  Here is a simple explanation I found when researching this myself back when for those, like me, need sort of a simplifying of a more complicated concept. 

"mAh is how much current it 'stores', while mA is the max power it can give

For example 1500mAh means it can give your led 1.5 A for one hour before the battery dies. Or 3A for 30 min. Or 6A for 15 min.

While 1500mA means it can give your led 1.5A until the cows come home, but no more than that"
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: xwingband on September 15, 2009, 11:09:06 AM
These LEDs are classified with lasers... you're a blooming idiot for looking at them that way.

For the draw... if your LED was 3.7V and your batteries were giving 3.7V it would take what it needs and would be 700mA of current.  There are so many variables though that unless you are measuring it you have NO CLUE what it's actually drawing.  EX. li-ions AVERAGE 3.7V, so at a higher charge they'd be giving more voltage and the LED taking more amperage.  Also vice versa, lower voltage and it's drawing less.  Now add in that each LED is pretty unique with it's own forward voltage, even within the same binning, and you should see why you can't say what it's drawing without having measured it.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on September 16, 2009, 01:52:23 PM
To Jango, Allaerra, and xwingband, you must listen.


Seriously everyone, be SAFE with these LEDs. They're not toys.


Also, there is no way to mod a TCSS holder to fit the LedEngin 10W optic. It's nearly twice as wide. As stated earlier, you're going to have to build a saber around it. There's no shortcut.

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Salvatore1971 on September 16, 2009, 02:18:59 PM
How dangerous are these LEDs?  ??? I'm a little concerned about this.  :-\

I mean: a quick crossing with eyes is sufficient to blind anyone, or must be a quite long exposure?

My two nephews are 8 and 10 years old and they often play with my MR sabers. Now I've a work in progress for a new LED saber by my favourite sabersmith (;D) and I wish to know what must be my behaviour.

Thanks  ;)

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on September 16, 2009, 02:55:27 PM
The LEDS that are used in LED sabers are classified as a type of low power laser. Though they won't burn your eyes out if you look at them for an instant, ANY exposure directly to your retina must be avoided at all times. It is simply wise to be safer this way. That is one of the benefits of the blades we use (aside from being able to fight with them) --they diffuse the light so that it isn't directed at our eyes to a harmful degree.


Basic precautions can be done to prevent either intentional or accidental viewing of the LED's light directly.


1) Do not look into a saber directly (without a blade) while turning it on.
2) Do not turn the saber on unless it has a blade firmly secured in the blade holder
3) When storing or displaying a saber without a blade in it, either remove the batteries or install an emitter plug. Just in case someone else takes your saber and tries to turn it on, the light will be contained.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Salvatore1971 on September 16, 2009, 10:17:15 PM
Thanks for your exhaustive reply, John!   :)
Now I know what to do.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Sidneyious on September 17, 2009, 11:31:52 AM
Also, there is no way to mod a TCSS holder to fit the LedEngin 10W optic. It's nearly twice as wide. As stated earlier, you're going to have to build a saber around it. There's no shortcut.

So to thoes that have used them in a compleated saber what did you do? did you use the ultra style flashlight style lense or what?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on September 17, 2009, 03:52:09 PM
We used a modified Lux Collimator.  Not perfect, but it gave respectable results.  The lens that is made by LEDEngin is not only huge but also appears to be for an application where the light would shine for a long distance.  Hard to know if they will be useful for lightsabers although there are several of us experimenting with them.  It's sort of a wait and see thing.  We have yet to build an emitter around them because, as I mentioned, they are huge ::)  It is on the list though ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Agash on September 17, 2009, 08:45:48 PM
I have posted it in this thread but again.
I had the best experience with a carclo fibre optics lense. The advantage is it is a normal sized lense and it is way brighter as the standart 5 to 10 dgree lenses.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Malaki-Skywalker on September 17, 2009, 11:41:46 PM
Ok, I think  I've solved the optics problem. The Cree MC-E LED has near the same dimensions as the 10 Watt, so, I had a look for some Optics and founds these bad boys: http://www.polymer-optics.co.uk/Cree%20MC-E%20Optics%20Range.pdf

Source:

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=6656671

Cree MC-E Dimensions: 7.0 x 7.5 x 4.4 (L x W x H)

LedEngin 10W Dimensions: 7.0 x 7.0 x 4.3 (L x W x H)

So if you find some more Cree MC-E Optics, might be worth trying.

Hope this helps  ;)

Malaki
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on September 18, 2009, 09:18:47 AM
I have posted it in this thread but again.
I had the best experience with a carclo fibre optics lense. The advantage is it is a normal sized lense and it is way brighter as the standart 5 to 10 dgree lenses.

I did see where you mentioned it before but I am not sure which particular carlo lens you are referring to.  Would you be so kind as to provide a link for the lens and holder that you settle on? 
Ok, I think  I've solved the optics problem. The Cree MC-E LED has near the same dimensions as the 10 Watt, so, I had a look for some Optics and founds these bad boys: http://www.polymer-optics.co.uk/Cree%20MC-E%20Optics%20Range.pdf

Sources:

http://www.cutter.com.au/products.php?cat=Cree+MCE+Multichip

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=6656671

Cree MC-E Dimensions: 7.0 x 7.5 x 4.4 (L x W x H)

LedEngin 10W Dimensions: 7.0 x 7.0 x 4.3 (L x W x H)

So if you find some more Cree MC-E Optics, might be worth trying.

Hope this helps  ;)

Malaki


Thanks for the information Malaki.  I will try this as well.

It would be great to compare the optics you found, as well as the ones Agash is using, to the Lux setup we are currently using to see which one seems to give the best and brightest blade ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on September 19, 2009, 05:52:00 AM
Very interresting, please post your result on this?

This is an amazing informative and developing topic.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Ari-Jaq Xulden on September 27, 2009, 11:23:02 AM
Thought I would post this here. This is my tri-lux from Acerocket with a Lux V royal blue, Lux III red , and a Lux III UV.
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi366.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo105%2Fari-jaq_xulden%2Ftrilux%2FIMG00061.jpg&hash=5ac218fbade96ba7326452a197997b4327d11eac)
Linky
http://www.orbitalmachining.com/html/tri-lux.html
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Salvatore1971 on September 27, 2009, 11:47:17 AM
A question: what is a tri-lux? Three Luxeon LEDs in a single saber?  ???
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on September 28, 2009, 05:38:03 AM
Correct...quite awhile before the "Endor" triple-rebel LED was announced Acerocket pioneered a configuration of three luxeon LED emitters inside a special custom machined heatsink module that also incorporated 3 focusing optics. I for one hoped that the Endor would eventually get a triple-focusing optic suitable for our purposes but it never did, the closest was a 25 degree optic too wide for saber use...this was exacerbated by the Endor emitters being farther apart on the pcb so Xwingband and others began to make custom tri-rebels with 3 rebel emitters reflow soldered on blank stars with their emitters closer together to allow colour mixing under a single modified optic. And here we are now talking about 10W LEDengins with four emitter dies under a single dome...ints been an interesting 3 years.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on September 28, 2009, 05:55:00 AM
Thought I would post this here. This is my tri-lux from Acerocket with a Lux V royal blue, Lux III red , and a Lux III UV.
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi366.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo105%2Fari-jaq_xulden%2Ftrilux%2FIMG00061.jpg&hash=5ac218fbade96ba7326452a197997b4327d11eac)
Linky
http://www.orbitalmachining.com/html/tri-lux.html

I love that blade color.
I've never seen anything like it yet.

I have a Blue/UV Laser and when I point it to my ceiling in a darkened room, everything is lighting up as with a Blacklicht-TL.
Does this saber have a bit of the same effect.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: xwingband on September 28, 2009, 06:23:12 AM
It has been a long way... especially since plasma sabers.

I'm also greatly intrigued by MC-E optics.  I hadn't thought of that since I personally have been avoiding high wattage LEDs, like it and the Seoul P7.  I will be researching these because I think they should help the tri-rebels also.  They just barely fit under a normal optic, but the larger MC-E/P7 style should help mix and focus them.  That's the one downside I haven't addressed yet is that the dies are still apart and not being centered does affect brightness, mixing, etc...

How much longer I'll be making tri-rebels is another story though... I still have to figure some stuff out before I announce anything here.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Ari-Jaq Xulden on September 28, 2009, 08:18:19 AM
Thanks DM, it does but have a similar effect, but not as much as you would think. Your laser is unfettered by optics and translucent blade diffusion. The UV is only there for hue. I had a prolight rgb running only r+b along with the red III and royal V, but it had a pink hue.Toying with the tri-lux has been fun to see what colors I can achieve. I think I am going to try my hands at mixing rebels next. As xwing has the jump on it, I am hoping he beats me to the punch. In fact I emailed him about mixing a red, and blue to get that pink magenta that we are so familiar with. and throwing in a cyan of different bins to see what hues can be achived. After all Cyan + Magenta + Yellow, or Amber is a different formula but same effect as rbg. It is  similar in what fender is doing, in that it bleeds the red out. Thats's my theory anyway.   
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on September 28, 2009, 08:28:50 AM
Ah I think I see what you are getting at there: CMYK = printing colours so you are thinking to use CMY colour theory instead of RGB for sabers?

Interesting...please let us know how that works out .
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: xwingband on September 28, 2009, 08:36:07 AM
There's a reason it's not used, it doesn't work.  Light is RGB.  Print is CMYK is a whole different system.  For example it adds black because CMY only makes a grey.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Malaki-Skywalker on September 28, 2009, 01:28:11 PM
I'm also greatly intrigued by MC-E optics.  I hadn't thought of that since I personally have been avoiding high wattage LEDs, like it and the Seoul P7.  I will be researching these because I think they should help the tri-rebels also.  They just barely fit under a normal optic, but the larger MC-E/P7 style should help mix and focus them.  That's the one downside I haven't addressed yet is that the dies are still apart and not being centered does affect brightness, mixing, etc...

Yeah, they should work for Tri-Rebels. Thats the second thing that came to mind when I looked at the opening in the specs.  8)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: xwingband on September 28, 2009, 02:12:13 PM
Carclo does make MC-E optics in the 20 mm form. I'll be ordering those as soon as I get home to try.  I didn't see a exact drawing so I hope the size hole is bigger and they didn't just give it a new part number for the same project...
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Ari-Jaq Xulden on September 28, 2009, 04:39:08 PM
There's a reason it's not used, it doesn't work.  Light is RGB.  Print is CMYK is a whole different system.  For example it adds black because CMY only makes a grey.
I disagree X. print uses cmyk with black as the key because white(paper) becomes the neutral. I don't want to absorb the colors, it loses brightness much as fenders purple . He actually decreases the red. here is a quick example I did when I got home from work. I took a cyan and magenta disks
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi366.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo105%2Fari-jaq_xulden%2Ftrilux%2FIMG00079.jpg&hash=67d49d1a6179623fb595c6f06874fb98d0c4b4dc)
took a lux III white placed disks over and ran straight form battery. This was the result. I must say I was impressed.
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi366.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo105%2Fari-jaq_xulden%2Ftrilux%2FIMG00078.jpg&hash=0223cf3d01a27ab155db9f3e483d2615d8c56f6c)
If this were applied using a red, blue, and cyan rebels of the correct bins for the right hues, I believe a 10 watt purple or violet could be achieved.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: nartules on September 28, 2009, 04:49:55 PM
This was a good read.  Glad to hear that new stuff is coming out all the time.  With more custom sabers being made are LED developers looking into making something just for lightsabers? It seems like a nitch market that they might be able to build up?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: xwingband on September 28, 2009, 08:01:52 PM
There's a reason it's not used, it doesn't work.  Light is RGB.  Print is CMYK is a whole different system.  For example it adds black because CMY only makes a grey.
I disagree X. print uses cmyk with black as the key because white(paper) becomes the neutral. I don't want to absorb the colors, it loses brightness much as fenders purple . He actually decreases the red. here is a quick example I did when I got home from work. I took a cyan and magenta disks

Well, there's nothing to disagree over...it simple doesn't work that way.  In my college coursework we were shown printing techniques.  Is CMYK is a totally different system than light, which is RGB.  Your reasoning is faulty too... look at most of what is printed on boxes, it's not white paper.

I bet if you used a better LED for that little experiment it'd look like mud.  Filters are subtractive, where if you use a Red filter it's blocking all but the red hues (white which has R, G and B).  So add another, you've already filtered shades out it really cuts the light to mud.

I'm not saying it couldn't get a decent purple though... Cyan is a half green half blue though.  You're adding some blue, but the green parts would mix with red to make orange.  Like I said in an e-mail if you felt the R+B alone was too magenta like, an RBB or RBY (Red + Blue + Royal Blue) would be easier to mix a purple.  Personally I felt toning down the Reds was far better than toning the Blues which can really outshine the red on the Rebels.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Agash on October 01, 2009, 12:19:21 AM
LED companys have a greater market than doing a LED for Lightsaber use only.
But there are many manufactures out there whhich can produce custom tri-rebel setups, which give with a bit of playing in amperage a real good purple.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: nartules on October 01, 2009, 03:02:24 AM
Well companies are always looking to expand their business.  Besides the tri-rebels, I think there would be adequate room for growth if a few led's were developed to pitch and sell to the custom saber community.  How many LED's are used in a given year for custom lightsabers? I don't have enough data to make an estimate.  Just a thought.  Please someone chime in and disagree with me, but wouldn't it be COOL if there were LED's developed specifically for lightsaber use?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on October 01, 2009, 04:00:58 AM
People wondered that about the Endors name when it first came out, but since they never produced optics suitable for our purpose it apparently wasn't meant for us.

The thing is we are really a much too tiny niche market in their overall sales for LED companies to specifically cater to...a single HD Jumbotron sale [millions of LED 'pixels'] would probably be several orders of magnitude beyond what we all buy in a year.

Maybe thats why they eventually produced 25 degree colour mixing optics for the Endor and not the 5-10 degree ones we need...a Jumbotron wants RGB mixing but with a WIDER viewing angle for TV viewing purposes not a narrower one for light in a tube eh?.

Goodman mentioned earlier that LEDEngin engineers told him the LEDEngin 10W were designed to focus at TEN FEET...again better for Jumbotrons than us...as long as a single Jumbotron sale dwarfs our entire niche market which do you think they'll cater to?

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on October 01, 2009, 06:07:52 AM
There's a reason it's not used, it doesn't work.  Light is RGB.  Print is CMYK is a whole different system.  For example it adds black because CMY only makes a grey.
I disagree X. print uses cmyk with black as the key because white(paper) becomes the neutral. I don't want to absorb the colors, it loses brightness much as fenders purple . He actually decreases the red. here is a quick example I did when I got home from work. I took a cyan and magenta disks
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi366.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo105%2Fari-jaq_xulden%2Ftrilux%2FIMG00079.jpg&hash=67d49d1a6179623fb595c6f06874fb98d0c4b4dc)
took a lux III white placed disks over and ran straight form battery. This was the result. I must say I was impressed.
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi366.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo105%2Fari-jaq_xulden%2Ftrilux%2FIMG00078.jpg&hash=0223cf3d01a27ab155db9f3e483d2615d8c56f6c)
If this were applied using a red, blue, and cyan rebels of the correct bins for the right hues, I believe a 10 watt purple or violet could be achieved.

First off, high brightness purples have already been achieved.  LEDEngin makes a 10W RGGB and a 10W RGBA which, when the colors are mixed correctly, achieve a purple brighter than anything that has been seen in single LED applications thus far.  Since the dies are under a single dome, you get less loss than some of the other options out there.  Regarding your filter experiment, you will NEVER achieve the same brightness OR color saturation with filters, never.  They significantly reduce brightness and the hue.  Especially a Lux III white.  People have been using the Seoul P4 U-bins for the last couple of years now, over the Lux III whites which just stink.  Still, even with the Seoul, saturation and brightness is significantly compromised.  In fact, we have converted dozens of these filtered sabers to our RGB method with an extremely noticeable difference in brightness.  Can you say night and day???  In addition, many of us have experimented with mixing different colors.  As Xwing said, when dealing with light, you are dealing with RGB.  It is a simple fact and inarguable.  Mixing cyan and fuschia might get you a purplish color, inasmuch as cyan is a mix between GB and Fuschia is a mix between RB.  However, you are sort of doing extra work at that point and, possibly, washing out the color.  Simple science says that light uses RGB.  Also, we do not reduce brightness with our purples, we mix the color correctly to achieve purple, not lavender, not royal blue, not fuschia, but purple.   Since you do not know our method (although you have asked several times so apparently you were interested) and do not own one of our sabers, you might try speaking to the many, many, many satisfied customers we have had before making such a statement.  Also, until you actually have a high wattage RGGB or RGBA in hand to compare to, you should be wary of making statements that are incorrect.   Even our standard 3W RGB when mixed and driven properly is brighter than a white LED with filters any day of the week and, of course, with better saturation ;)
Even look at your picture, it barely lights up the shaft of the saber whereas our purples light up a room ;D

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi136.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq169%2FAJFenderBender%2F099-1.jpg&hash=844474b89162f57f0181fa732f4cc4631dd6e7ac)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on October 01, 2009, 06:44:54 AM
Ahhh that photo again.
It makes me drewel.
"Give it to me" handwave
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on October 01, 2009, 07:28:49 AM
Yeah gotta love that pic eh...Oppression Stopping Purpliscious Purple ROCKS...HARD.

Someday I want one...don't we all...
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: STARKILLER on October 01, 2009, 10:33:19 AM
Just to add and to keep this OT. When we're talking about getting colors that aren't yet possible with current LED tech: Even if you take a LEDengin 15watt white and get a couple or even one filter for the purple color, FILTERS ARE A SUBTRACTIVE process for acheiving colors. You are REMOVING certain frequencies of light = hence the name FILTER. When taking, say a 10w RGBA and you MIX two or more dice, you are ADDING. (I know, I just reiterated what X-Wing :D) said Simple logic.

So, while you may disagree with X-wing's post, it really is like arguing with a stop sign ;)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: GENERAL GRIEVOUS on October 01, 2009, 11:19:32 AM
This is an interesting conversation.  I could go into the physics of light, but that has actually been covered very well already.  It sounds to me like there are some "sour grapes" in the tone of some of the responses.  I am going to hazard a guess as to what is going on here.  AJX contacts Vader's Vault.  AJX asks VV to tell him how to do RGB purples.  VV informs AJX that their method is proprietary.  VV may have even offered to do the conversion (would seem likely for a business to do in any event).  AJX felt that this info should be free to all, so decided to "test" some old tech and see how he liked it, and aaaha!  The purple looks good...to him.  So AJX decides to challenge VV's knowledge of RGB purples and posts this "great filtered" purple.  Filters cut out wavelengths.  Filters reduce lumenous intensity.  No filtered saber will ever be as bright as a properly mixed saber, sorry.

amirite?

This is how I see it.  I am a distributor.  I am a collector.  I am a philanthropist.  I share MANY techniques with the community (techniques that I either invented or innovated to the point of mainstream usability).  I have not shared every method, because if I did...what reason would anyone have to buy a saber from me?  I love to build them wayyyyyy too much.  I can't keep 500 sabers so I HAVE to sell them!  Vader's Vault is a business.  They are highly ethical and a newly arrived pillar of this community that we all love.  They are under ZERO ethical obligation to give anything away from the business that FEEDS THEIR FAMILY.  It disturbs me to see someone acting petulant in a case like this.  Think of it this way...I want to perform a proprietary surgical procedure that takes specialized knowledge.  This surgery is better than the surgery that I am licensed and trained to do and my patient will have a better prognosis if it is done.  I have a choice, I can do the lesser procedure, or I can refer the case to a surgeon who is trained in the technique.  It is preposterous to assume that the trained surgeon will simply tell me how to do a procedure that he has put the time into developing and bases his living upon.  This is life in a free market system folks.   Just because we can't always get things the exact way we want them does not mean that anyone is playing afoul of us.

Note on interpretation.  I am not slamming either party in this response.  Far from it, I mean, I deal with people who make decisions based on lack of knowledge every day and I like them just fine.  I am simply trying to help bring an understanding to this issue as  I see it.  I simply feel as though people need to be educated as to how many hours and the type of specialized knowledge that it takes for us to develop these "techniques".  Most of us have spent a great deal of money and time in so doing.  Any of you CAN do this, but do you want to?  Is it worth the THOUSANDS of dollars and thousands of hours in development costs for you to do so?  Think about it the next time $50 for an LED change sounds like a lot.  I truly never realized any of this before I became this deeply involved in sabersmithery and I hope that this post helps some people to understand.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Agash on October 02, 2009, 05:54:45 AM
Now it sounds like a political discussion...

I don´t know anything about commercial SaberSmith society in US, but what I can say with currently existing 4 die technique and a bit of searching with various LED suppliers, filtering should be a thing of the past. Mixing - so playing with amperage and resistors to achieve the color what is needed is present.

@Allaerra: I like that purple very much. Very bright and even on the photo it looks purple, when most "purples" turn pink. Nicely done.

@LDM: I understand you there. Even I just wanted to make one "state-of-the-art" saber. I ended up doing 3 Sabers and much much much tests which cost a whole lot of money just to get the methods and skills to make one saber.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: GENERAL GRIEVOUS on October 02, 2009, 04:49:07 PM
Now it sounds like a political discussion...

I don´t know anything about commercial SaberSmith society in US, but what I can say with currently existing 4 die technique and a bit of searching with various LED suppliers, filtering should be a thing of the past. Mixing - so playing with amperage and resistors to achieve the color what is needed is present.

@Allaerra: I like that purple very much. Very bright and even on the photo it looks purple, when most "purples" turn pink. Nicely done.

@LDM: I understand you there. Even I just wanted to make one "state-of-the-art" saber. I ended up doing 3 Sabers and much much much tests which cost a whole lot of money just to get the methods and skills to make one saber.

You are correct in all that you say.  I can respect someone who jumps in and figures things out.  Good job! ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: STARKILLER on October 08, 2009, 01:08:41 PM
Ok, just wired up a LEDengin RGBA for purple on a CF 4.3. Now, there has been some discussion and debate on whether the normal lenses aren't the best thing for these, and the Cree lenses fit better so some have suggested that they would work. I have now tried both of these lenses and the Cree lenses DO fit better but they DON'T mix the colors as even as the standard 10 deg. lenses. With the Cree lenses it was REALLY pink at the bottom and more bluish at the top. I HATE that. I will have pics of the finished product tonight or tomorrow ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Malaki-Skywalker on October 08, 2009, 01:19:57 PM
Ah, lol. I did not say they would be good for mixing though lol. Probably better for efficiency?  ;)

EDIT: It could be down too the optics having a diffused layer?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: STARKILLER on October 08, 2009, 01:28:30 PM
Hmm...I dont know. Those optics maybe ok for the single color 10W though. Just not good for mixing the RGBA/RGGBs
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Malaki-Skywalker on October 08, 2009, 01:31:29 PM
Hmm...I dont know. Those optics maybe ok for the single color 10W though. Just not good for mixing the RGBA/RGGBs

Yeah, any plans on trying a single color?  ;) Thanks for sharing your results Fender!  ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: xwingband on October 08, 2009, 02:59:01 PM
Fender, did you use the optics linked by Malaki (the Polymer Optics Hex ones)?

I realized the Carclo ones were the same part number despite different descriptions and names at various sites.  The small hex ones are different part numbers though.  I couldn't confirm how different they'd be though.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on October 09, 2009, 05:30:33 AM
P5, is that an origenal name or something made up and kept used here?
Is it something like the tri-rebel?
At first I thought it was a mis-writing but more people are using it.

What is it doing and what is the brightness compared to the others discussed in here?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: STARKILLER on October 09, 2009, 06:08:41 AM
Fender, did you use the optics linked by Malaki (the Polymer Optics Hex ones)?

I realized the Carclo ones were the same part number despite different descriptions and names at various sites.  The small hex ones are different part numbers though.  I couldn't confirm how different they'd be though.

I used a part nuber he provided, but the optics for the most part look standard aside from the opening being larger. I'll have to look for the hex ones and try them.


Hmm...I dont know. Those optics maybe ok for the single color 10W though. Just not good for mixing the RGBA/RGGBs

Yeah, any plans on trying a single color?  ;) Thanks for sharing your results Fender!  ;D

We have plans. Oh yes, we have plans ;) ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Malaki-Skywalker on October 09, 2009, 06:39:36 AM
The ones linked are the Polymer Optics ones (Hex) with the diffused layer. LED-Tech.de are now doing optic holders for the MC-E so it might be worth keeping an eye out on their new releases due soon  ;)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on October 09, 2009, 07:25:06 AM
Darth Matth "P5" is not a typo its another LED model from Seoul Semiconductor makers of the P4...Jango made some MLS units using a P5 RGB wired for purple recently and it is a quite nice purple much brighter than possible with filters.

These new optics developments look very promising for the LEDEngin 10W also...too bad some dont mix the RGBA well but I'd also like to see how they fare collimating the single-colour kind which might still be a worthwhile advance and eagerly look forward to seeing your results with those Fender...Vaders Vault is progressing nicely lately eh?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on October 09, 2009, 08:24:18 AM
Aha so we got to see them more often I think. :D
Now we only need to find someone who can make an acurate Mace Windu.  ;D ;D ;D
Thank you for that info. 
8)  8) 8) 8)  8) 8) 8)  8) 8) 8)  8) 8) 8)  8) 8) 8)  8) 8) 8)  8) 8) 8)  8) 8) 8)  8) 8) 8)  8)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Tash Verano on October 11, 2009, 12:30:29 PM
upon reading all of the posts...

wow, there is alot more going on than I realized...  that's a good thing. ;D ;D

so, now as a hobby, with LEDEngin 10w leds we've hit a technolgical ceiling as far as output vs. quality.  but the good news is bright custom colors are becoming possible without lens filters.   ;D

it's now down to optics. 

darn it, crystals always were the "heart of the blade".  :P :P

as far as that goes- has anyone cracked open the "old" MR DIY kit from RadioShack to see what the optics look like on it?  or did they even bother to put a lens in those RGB PsOP (Pieces of Poodoo)?

I'll be watching to see what develops...  just gotta have patience  8)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on October 11, 2009, 12:39:15 PM
Well, the optics in the Construction kits were junk and nowhere near as good as the optics we currently use.  So, yes it's been done.  No it is not a viable option.  With the 10W LEDs, so far the best choice we have found it the 10 degree collimator with it's matching holder.  We did experiment with the CREE MCE optics but found they just didn't cut it.  We are always exploring other options all the time though and will continue to keep this thread updated.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Malaki-Skywalker on October 11, 2009, 01:00:50 PM
Well, the optics in the Construction kits were junk and nowhere near as good as the optics we currently use.  So, yes it's been done.  No it is not a viable option.  With the 10W LEDs, so far the best choice we have found it the 10 degree collimator with it's matching holder.  We did experiment with the CREE MCE optics but found they just didn't cut it.  We are always exploring other options all the time though and will continue to keep this thread updated.

Let me know what the MC-E Optics are like with Single colors  ;) I think with the MC-E Optics, the diffused Layer doesn't help at all. Still, I found these.

http://www.ledil.fi/datasheets/DataSheet_LM1.pdf

Medium Angle (12 Degree's) http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/1614853-lens-cmc-medium-mc-e-fa10676-cmc-m.html

Diffused (10 Degree's) http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/1614847-lens-lm1-diff-20deg-mc-e-fa10650-lm1-d.html

And the "Real Spot" Judging by their other "Real spot" optics, it should be 8 Degree's.

http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/1614845-lens-lm1-real-spot-mc-e-fa10613-lm1-rs.html

The diffused ones might share the same fate as the Polymer Optics "hex" MC-E Optic.

EDIT: Haha, I'm such a pain. The more Look the more I find.

MC-E Reflectors that have near the same dimensions as our common optics:

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=711-1065-ND

Thats it I promise LOL I'm going to run you guys up a bill on Optics  :D


 ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Logan Cade on October 11, 2009, 03:50:22 PM
I agree with you guys that the LedEngin has a lot of possibilities
For the last couple of months I’ve been working on a PIC driven RGB PWM driver circuit that I think works great with the 10w RGB LedEngin’s.

I wrote some code that allows for you to program any RGB color combination you could think of…Example; see purple here:

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple

Depending on the PIC you use you can program in a ton of different color combinations, all selectable from a momentary switch.

You can also play with the timing and speed and get all different colors to fade and morph, or just have a solid color perform a PWM blade flickering effect.  Depending on the parts you use, you can have other inputs triggering this besides just a momentary switch. I also have it setup where if you stay on a certain color for longer then 5 seconds, when you turn the unit off and back on again it’ll restart with that last saved color.

I’m working on a circuit board design with 3 constant current outputs.  Trying to keep the size small enough to fit comfortably in a saber and the power requirements low is a battle that’s going to have to require some compromise.  I’m still plugging away at it and we’ll see where it goes.

Here’s a 5-minute video of one of the tests I’ve done.  Video’s not great, hard to see the subtle changes with all the wash but it’ll give you an idea of where I’m at.



The colors in the video are coming out in the below sequence.

Green
Blue
Red
Purple – RGB 240/0/240
Yellow
White
Purple1 – RGB 175/0/255
Green Spacer
Purple2 – RGB 170/0/240
Green Spacer
Purple3 – RGB 150/0/255
Green Spacer
Purple4 – RGB 218/112/214
Green Spacer
Purple5 – RGB 186/85/211
Green Spacer
Purple6 – RGB 153/50/204
Green Spacer
Purple7 – RGB 248/0/211
Green Spacer
Purple8 – RGB 138/43/226
Green Spacer
Purple9 – RGB 160/32/240
Green Spacer
Purple10 – RGB 147/112/219
Green Spacer
Purple11 – RGB 216/191/216
Green Spacer
Purple12 – RGB 153/17/153
Green Spacer
Purple13 – RGB 174/0/240
Green Spacer
Purple14 – RGB 139/0/204
Green Spacer
Purple15 – RGB 101/45/93
Green Spacer
Purple16 – RGB 102/0/153
Green Spacer
Purple17 – RGB 75/0/130
Green Spacer
Purple18 – RGB 49/0/98
Green Spacer
Purple19 – RGB 62/47/132
Green Spacer
Purple20 – RGB 50/18/122
Green Spacer
Purple21 – RGB 107/63/160
White Spacer
Red Flicker – Needs work
Red Flicker – Needs work
Slow full color morph
Faster full color morph
Then looped back to first original Green

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on October 11, 2009, 04:07:35 PM
Well, we would be very interested in that, assuming it will fit in a hilt in a reasonable space and the power source will also fit in the hilt :D  Will it be able to incorporate some of the features the higher end soundboards now have such as a flicker and a mock scroll?  I see this is being a great solution for stunts as well as the Sabersound board.  This is top shelf work!  Thanks for sharing :)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Logan Cade on October 11, 2009, 04:55:42 PM
You can definitely code in the flicker effect.  I just have to experiment with different timing and intensity values until I come up with something that looks appropriate.

Same with the mock blade scroll, just need to experiment with the PWM values, starting out low and increasing to high, and then looping to the flicker effect…not to mention writing all the code so this works at start-up and the opposite at shut-down and also possibly making it user adjustable.

Size and power could be a problem also.  There’s no reason to do any of this if I can’t fit and run it in a saber with a sound card and all the other goodies…but I think it can be done reasonably.


I gotta give credit to the guys who’ve already done this stuff….it’s a lot work and a lot to consider.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on October 11, 2009, 05:45:58 PM
Hey Logan, 'responded to your PMs.  This may get rather long so let's move it to email. ;)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: erv on October 11, 2009, 11:18:33 PM
that's the main reason it's not there in CF. Color mixing isn't difficult by itself, it's just that, just like LC said, you need 3 constant current sources.
From my experience :
- you still need to adjust the current of each die. So it means you need a chip on which you can adjust current dynamically
- if you're doing it by hand (my case), you need 3 PWM running at high freq
- PWM needs to have a high resolution otherwise ramping fx suffers of progression / linearity lacks.

Most of the color mixing system I've seen so far are just PWM dimmers, not current sources. It's like you have a max current set with a resistor, a PWM chopper (really unefficient, with heating output elements) and then you dim it out with a control potentiometer or a low res PWM.

Now it's a matter of size too. 3 luxeon drivers would be hard to fit IMO. The coil is an important element and be miniaturized by magic, unless you make a 1MHz current regulator. I've looked for ready made chips, unfortunatly most of them don't offer external PWM or digital port control of the current, and when you have PWM, it's really low res.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Malaki-Skywalker on November 10, 2009, 02:39:30 PM
Heh... looks like Carclo are now doing LEDEngin optics  8)

PDF:
http://carclo-optics.co.uk/catalog/documents/LedEngin-07-09.pdf?osCsid=7d964dd4b0fd8eb64e1b2122d68537fc

Online shop (Looks like bulk only):
http://www.carclo-optics.com/Web-Shop-Downloads.70.0.html

26.5mm is pushing it a tad, but a lil' modification could sort that one  ;)

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on November 10, 2009, 05:48:48 PM
d'oh! 'Secret is out!  ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Lord Ian on November 10, 2009, 07:34:32 PM
So if I wanted to get the brightest red saber i could, what setup should I aim for?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: xwingband on November 10, 2009, 09:02:29 PM
Yeah, it appears the part numbers are different this time.  I can't find a spec sheet but it seems the openings are bigger to accommodate the more flood like pattern.  Seems promising for sure!  I want some of the 20mm for my Tri-Rebels!
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Malaki-Skywalker on November 10, 2009, 11:45:04 PM
d'oh! 'Secret is out!  ;D

Oops, sorry Goodman. I keep finding these things and loose self control *Must NOT POST!* ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: erv on November 11, 2009, 12:47:08 AM
very cool ! that's really good news
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on November 11, 2009, 07:23:59 AM
Malaki, you are definitely keeping us all busy testing new optics ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Rogue Graymatter on November 11, 2009, 09:30:48 AM
d'oh! 'Secret is out!  ;D

Oops, sorry Goodman. I keep finding these things and loose self control *Must NOT POST!* ;D

Why would you not want to share? I thought that's what this thread was about. Anyway, thanks! And loose self control anytime, the community benefits more when you do.

Any comparisons between, red, far red, and deep red? I know the wavelength but wondered what they might look like in person. I just ordered a regular red 5w star for a vader convert. Just curious.


RG
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on November 11, 2009, 10:27:02 AM
I was wondering about the "far red" too. We know "royal blue" is not the brightest LED colour because its dominant wavelengths are further toward the UV side of the spectrum not so easily seen by the human eye...would 'far red' be similarly dimmer to the eye by being closer to the infrared sise of the spectrum? Has anyone used one of those in a saber yet?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: darth_call on November 11, 2009, 10:32:59 AM
I was wondering about the "far red" too. We know "royal blue" is not the brightest LED colour because its dominant wavelengths are further toward the UV side of the spectrum not so easily seen by the human eye...would 'far red' be similarly dimmer to the eye by being closer to the infrared sise of the spectrum? Has anyone used one of those in a saber yet?


I have a far red and deep red right now. I can post pics of the differences  later on today.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on November 11, 2009, 10:54:15 AM
The 10W red, overdriven and properly powered, is very bright. But that being said, the red Ledengin is less worth the effort to implement in a saber, in my opinion. The Seoul P4 Red when overdriven is very satisfying in both color and saturation of its surroundings, and at MUCH less hassle.  Food for thought.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: JANGO FETT on November 11, 2009, 11:00:30 AM
How do you feel about the 10W ambers?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: STARKILLER on November 11, 2009, 11:34:55 AM
I have used one, though it was binned so high that I needed 14+V to power it. So it didn't fit into the 9.6-10V power range that I would've liked. It was bright, brighter than a Lux III amber, but the 5w amber from LEDengin is too and much less hassle as well. Though my P4 ambers came yesterday, so I'm going to wire one up and compare that.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Malaki-Skywalker on November 11, 2009, 01:48:39 PM
Malaki, you are definitely keeping us all busy testing new optics ;D

I LOVE my OPTICS!  ;D My super-duper-secret first hand machined saber will be getting a nice Red 10W, so I can contribute some results soon! Thanks for experimenting! *Waits eagerly for results*  8)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Amptrooper on November 11, 2009, 02:23:28 PM
I have used one, though it was binned so high that I needed 14+V to power it. So it didn't fit into the 9.6-10V power range that I would've liked. It was bright, brighter than a Lux III amber, but the 5w amber from LEDengin is too and much less hassle as well. Though my P4 ambers came yesterday, so I'm going to wire one up and compare that.
Very curious to see the P4 Amber compared to the LEDengin. Any way you can post pictures of a comparison of all three to get a good view of the different set ups.   
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth_Baleful on November 14, 2009, 05:12:27 AM
im not sure why you say to stay away from the 5w red's Goodman :-\ ??? :-X :(

two sabers i have right now. (both stunts)

- MR Maul 5w red, direct driven, using 3AAA

-MR Vader lux III red, direct driven, 3AA

same amount of power, both slightly over-driven... the 5w blows the luxIII outta the water!!


MTFBWY
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: erv on November 14, 2009, 05:18:20 AM
I take the opportunity of this thread to say that if you look carefully to the PDF, the 3 & 5W optics are the same ref as the one used so far for luxeon or other brand. As for the 10W, I have to look in my 3 years old samples but I think this is the normal 26.5mm optics they were selling so far.
I (we ?) have been using carclo optics for ledengin for now 2 years, if they propose officially that product / those refs that means that many standard things can match those leds. Which is great.
So I'm not sure those are "new" optics. To be confirmed.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on November 14, 2009, 08:55:35 AM
Hi Erv', which particular optics have you been using?  We use the 10° collimating lenses found on luxeonstar.com and ledsupply.com in 90% of our builds.  These: http://www.philipslumileds.com/pdfs/DS26.pdf .  We have had excellent success with them and even with the 10W LEDEngins they are still giving us the most even blade, especially for color blending, so far.  However, it's always fun to try something new :D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: erv on November 14, 2009, 09:14:02 AM
I've been using the 10043 from carclo for a long long time. Those 6° were what I was selling in the past. Recently, not having supplies any more, I tried the TCSS 5° (the carved ones) and I've been very disapointed (I haven't tried the 10° though). On a particular saber, I thought that it was me at first, found the blade dim, then found an old 6° and it was so different, much brigther.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on November 15, 2009, 03:41:15 PM
im not sure why you say to stay away from the 5w red's Goodman :-\ ??? :-X :(

two sabers i have right now. (both stunts)

- MR Maul 5w red, direct driven, using 3AAA

-MR Vader lux III red, direct driven, 3AA

same amount of power, both slightly over-driven... the 5w blows the luxIII outta the water!!


MTFBWY


What bin? What amperage? I said that in my tests the LE5W Red wasn't up to snuff against an SP4 Red @1A.  That doesn't exclude the possibility that another bin or setup can in fact be brighter --in fact, it's great news!

It's good to get other people testing these, so we can isolate the best setups to use.

In any case, I'm glad to hear you've got a bright red!
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: xwingband on November 15, 2009, 04:47:15 PM
Yeah, part numbers are really critical.  A lot of companies are not specifying which Carclo number they are using.  Carclo has new wider opening ones which I think should work well.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on November 17, 2009, 05:37:40 PM
A couple new videos which have some bearing on this thread...


LedEngin 10W RGBA, R+B wired in series, USv2.5 @1A, Ultra Midgrade blade, Carclo #10138 optic (not optimal...I'm waiting for my shipment of #10003 and #10391). The other sabers in the vid are using the standard TCSS 10 degree optic.





And, considering this is a LedEngin thread that discusses all aspects of these LEDs, it's also important to note that with the 10W RGBA/RGGB LEDs, you don't HAVE to wire them all in series. A USv2 or CF can easily drive 2 or 3 of the dice (depending on which color). Heck, even an MR board could be wired via selectable switch to an RGBA LED to give you four color options (no mixing though).

With a CF, you can run 2-3 of the dice in series and then clash the other colors. Here is just one example... LedEngin 10W RGGB. G+G wired in series, with the Blue via the clash pad on the CF (and also the requisite powerXtender):





Let's keep those ideas and comparison tests coming, everyone! We need to tackle the Ambers, Reds, and Whites. I'd like to see that P4 comparison, too...  ;D

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Rogue Graymatter on November 17, 2009, 08:33:07 PM
A quick shot of a 5w red in my 4 year old's recently converted MR vader ESB. Next to a P4 yoda and a stock MR DM. It's bright! Casts light to fill the room. It's a nice shade too (ignore my phones booty pink images). I wasn't a big fan of red until now, but I'm diggin some LedEngin dark side.
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg689.imageshack.us%2Fimg689%2F8734%2F20091115175257.jpg&hash=6b42774b3aa2688a7a2658c28e29ae147f1b0133)
RG
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on November 19, 2009, 10:33:19 AM
A quick shot of a 5w red in my 4 year old's recently converted MR vader ESB. Next to a P4 yoda and a stock MR DM. It's bright! Casts light to fill the room. It's a nice shade too (ignore my phones booty pink images). I wasn't a big fan of red until now, but I'm diggin some LedEngin dark side.
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg689.imageshack.us%2Fimg689%2F8734%2F20091115175257.jpg&hash=6b42774b3aa2688a7a2658c28e29ae147f1b0133)
RG

Wow, is this a LedEngine 5W in a Vader with MR board???
If so I have a Red/Orange Vader from Ultra but this seems to be SOMUCH brighter.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Lord Ian on November 19, 2009, 03:48:14 PM
I'm also curious if the Vader has an MR board powering it. I'd love to to get my saber brighter (also a lux3 red/orange) and I don't have the knowledge to do a soundboard swap yet, so the MR board works for now
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: STARKILLER on November 19, 2009, 04:38:56 PM
Guys, pics aren't everything here. A lux III Red-O is one of the brightest reds out there in that power range. Chances are if it ain't bright enough with the red-o then the MR board isn't going to give any more juice to a LEDengin. That said, you may like the color better though.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on November 19, 2009, 05:37:04 PM
Yeah...too bad there arent going to be any more of them.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Rogue Graymatter on November 19, 2009, 07:08:11 PM
Iit is a 5w red (plain red) running straight off the MR vader board as goodman suggested back one page 1. Fenders right, pictures don't really tell you jack. I can tell you it's a ton brighter than stock and has a real nice shade of red. Compares to a p4 @ 1a. I really like the way it lights up a room now. I do prefer the shade of it to a R/O Lux III. But with those on the way out, I would hang on to them, or even get more. You know how thing are when you can't get them anymore.....

On another saber (vintage graflex I'm working on) I have a blue 5w LedEngin that I'm running @ 1.5a on a CF v4.3 and it seems fairly bright for a darker blue. Pics to follow.

RG
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on November 19, 2009, 07:31:13 PM
We love the LEDEngin 5W blues, especially with the CF :D  Look forward to your pics Rouge Graymatter ;)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on November 20, 2009, 02:40:58 AM
So for a MR Board, in brightness it's still Lux III Red/Orange on the top, - than LedEngine 5W Red (Better color),- than P4 Red.
I'll keep my Vader ANH UltraFX the way it is than, but let my Maul be converted with the LedEngines 5W Red.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on November 20, 2009, 07:31:20 AM
No, the LEDEngin 5W isn't brighter than the P4 in red.  You need to reread the post.  He said it compares.  The P4 is bright ;)  The red-o is crazy bright, but they are being discontinued.  For MRs, the next step has probably got to be experimenting with the single die rebels and optics until we can find a combination that will fill the blade.  For now, it's going to be the P4s and the LEDEngins.  Fact is, since they are equally bright, unless you really prefer the color of the LEDEngin, P4s are cheaper :D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on November 20, 2009, 07:57:40 AM
Thanks Luminara, and is the color Red the same in depth between the P4 and the LE, on a MR Board?
If one of the two is deeper Red but still as bright, than that's the winner.

It's possible it's already be written, and in that case I really have to reread this topic again.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: erv on November 20, 2009, 07:58:03 AM
and power wise, we're talking of 5W vs 3.5W (more lumen per watt ?).
checking datasheets, it's like 1.5A  / 146 lumen versus 1A/100 lumen. That's for the theory, in pratice it might be hard to see the difference, especially on red.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on November 20, 2009, 08:06:36 AM
Darth Matth: Well, it depends on what you mean by deep.  The LEDEngin comes in two colors a Red and a Deep Red.  The deep red is more of that blood red color but seems to be less bright, to the eyes anyway.  The P4s do depend on bin.  Most to me are a really nice red very saturated and even, but I have seen one recently that had more of a tomato color.  That doesn't seem to be the norm.  I think we are all going to need to do a bit more playing with both to get a good idea of the differences in tone.  What I will say about all the P4s in general(we haven't tried the new amber yet, but the red, blue, green,and white) is that they are VERY saturated.  So you get a vivid color that produces a very even blade, IMO.  For MRs as a general rule I am partial to the P4s because they aren't as amperage craving as the LEDEngins.  Using a CF, the LEDEngins are more attractive because you can give them 1500 ma and they LOVE it and are definitely brighter than P4s.  However, we haven't tried the LEDEngin red or deep red in a CF yet so we'll have to wait and see on that ;).  We are going to be trying a 10W LEDEngin with a CF first though ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on November 20, 2009, 08:30:11 AM
Thank you, so what yoú're saying is that for the MR board the P4 Red is better cause the're will be enough power left for the sound too.
And which is the Bin that is so much saturated as you wrote?

I think for the CF I'd rather go directly to the LE 10W. ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: JANGO FETT on November 20, 2009, 11:44:12 AM
There are 3 reds for LEDEngin listed at mouser.

Deep red
Red
Far Red
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: erv on November 20, 2009, 11:56:10 AM
we're missing then
- close red
- reddish red
- uber far red (it's the alias for green bin 1.138)
- infra red
- Back o' Bourke Red (but it's only availabe from mouser.au)

sorry I couldn't resist  ;) :-X
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: General Kota on November 20, 2009, 12:04:09 PM
 I thank the LEDEngin 5W blue is going on my next mhs lightsaber.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Lord Ian on December 01, 2009, 03:11:08 PM
Has anyone tried a 10W red? I'm curious to see how that compared to a LUX3 red-o
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on December 03, 2009, 10:51:40 AM
Has anyone tried a 10W red? I'm curious to see how that compared to a LUX3 red-o


Check the first couple pages of this thread...I posted both pictures AND YouTube videos of 10W Red vs P4 Red vs Lux3 Red...
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Lord Ian on February 02, 2010, 02:43:55 PM
Okay, quick question guys... I'm looking at maybe using a 10W amber in my next saber, but I want sound... How hard would it be to fully power the LED but still get sound?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: The Highwayman on February 02, 2010, 03:08:16 PM
I don't know how to do it, but it would be fairly hard ot accomplish. With an operating voltage of 10.1 volts, I don't think there is a sound board that will automatically feed it that voltage. Goodman, Luminara, or maybe Jango could help you more.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: jock109 on February 02, 2010, 03:10:08 PM
Ian check out this thread. I asked a similar question and Goodman came up with the goods again.

http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=22518.msg333921#msg333921
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: JANGO FETT on February 04, 2010, 09:22:52 PM
I'm going to rewire Mara Jade in the future, and I am wondering, what the experts would recommend.
MJ has a 7.2 NiMH 6 cell power supply. CF 4.0 installed.

RGBA Ledengin
RB in series with a G or A clash flash?

Cree RGBW
RB in series with a W clash flash?

The Cree is not rated for a high current or voltage value, and is similar to a Seoul P5.
The LedEngin RGBA can take more current and voltage.

I'm going for a better purple and a brighter blade and clash flash.
opinions?

MJ current
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi20.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb219%2FNailbunny375%2FMara%2520Jade%2F100_5177.jpg&hash=e238574c0ad55811a6d76bd4ff44e6ae021cc8df) (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b219/Nailbunny375/Mara%20Jade/100_5177.jpg)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Caine on February 04, 2010, 10:25:36 PM
Ya know, I was just talking to Nova today about his recent experiments with some LedEngin reds and blues that made some pretty tight purples with clash flash...you may want to talk to him. He was very pleased with his results.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on February 04, 2010, 11:49:58 PM
You're such a perfectionist JANGO.  ;D I think your current MJ purple is pretty nice actually...so I look forward to seeing whatever you do to improve on it.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on February 05, 2010, 07:48:08 AM
Jango, if you use the RGBA and run the G for the clash flash, it will be purple with a purplish white clash flash.  It comes out almost white with just a tinge of purple and is Uber bright.  It will blow the CREE away :D  Trust me, you will love the effect :D.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: GENERAL GRIEVOUS on February 05, 2010, 01:32:52 PM
Jango, if you use the RGBA and run the G for the clash flash, it will be purple with a purplish white clash flash.  It comes out almost white with just a tinge of purple and is Uber bright.  It will blow the CREE away :D  Trust me, you will love the effect :D.

Agreed, that is the way  I would go. ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on February 06, 2010, 02:42:38 PM
Well all good people, I was thinking this over;

I will thank you guy's and gall's, for the time and MONEY you've put into this comparisons and experiments.
It's A LOT you're doing for us.
It's great of you sharing it too.
A deep bow from me.
 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

I thought it needed to be said.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: JANGO FETT on February 07, 2010, 04:13:40 PM
I found this today in Mouser's catalog  15 degree optic for color mixing
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/LedEngin/LLSP-2T06-H/?qs=73mYMeTMmMuIMFUYiaeNMg%3d%3d (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/LedEngin/LLSP-2T06-H/?qs=73mYMeTMmMuIMFUYiaeNMg%3d%3d)

Has anyone tried this?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: GENERAL GRIEVOUS on February 07, 2010, 06:08:29 PM
I found this today in Mouser's catalog  15 degree optic for color mixing
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/LedEngin/LLSP-2T06-H/?qs=73mYMeTMmMuIMFUYiaeNMg%3d%3d (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/LedEngin/LLSP-2T06-H/?qs=73mYMeTMmMuIMFUYiaeNMg%3d%3d)

Has anyone tried this?

Next time I order I will try one.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on February 07, 2010, 10:02:07 PM
Nice find!
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: erv on February 08, 2010, 02:55:51 AM
doesn't the spec sheet say 47mm wide ?
(I think I got some of those in the past)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on February 08, 2010, 06:55:24 AM
Yes, they are gignamous ???
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: erv on February 08, 2010, 07:03:45 AM
who said size matter not. Oh wait, this optic would actually *fit*  wood chunck telescopic hasblows  ;)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Mersenne on February 08, 2010, 07:20:24 PM
we're missing then
- close red
- reddish red
- uber far red (it's the alias for green bin 1.138)
- infra red
- Back o' Bourke Red (but it's only availabe from mouser.au)

sorry I couldn't resist  ;) :-X
erv
you've got a good sense of humour mate, I'd let you be an honorary Aussie
with or without an attached CF as a bribe on your application
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: erv on February 09, 2010, 06:50:31 AM
lol  ;D I'm glad a local AU picked that one. My friend Damian tought me this idom long ago, and I got it then as back of burk. Thanks to wikipedia and google I got the right spelling & origin !
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Mersenne on February 09, 2010, 05:28:35 PM
you used it well erv
that's another thing about this forum - we're from all over the globe and yet can share our good humour widely
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on February 10, 2010, 02:50:35 PM
Jango, if you use the RGBA and run the G for the clash flash, it will be purple with a purplish white clash flash.  It comes out almost white with just a tinge of purple and is Uber bright.  It will blow the CREE away :D  Trust me, you will love the effect :D.

Agreed, that is the way  I would go. ;D

YES, Overdrive it at 1.3A, too   :o 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Jasher Kain on February 10, 2010, 05:18:28 PM
Similar question to Jango's:

How would I get a magenta color on a 10W LEDEngin and what color clash-flash would look best?
(board is a CF)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on February 10, 2010, 06:36:26 PM
You get Magenta on a 10W by wiring the R & B dice in parallel and resitoring or potting the blue. Your clash flash color choices are limited.  With the RGBA, if you wire the green on the PE you'd get a purplish white clash/flash.  With the RGGB if you wire both greens with PEs you'd get a greenish white.  With the RGBA you can wire the A on the clash/flash and no clue what you'd get :D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Jasher Kain on February 11, 2010, 01:31:51 AM
You get Magenta on a 10W by wiring the R & B dice in parallel and resitoring or potting the blue. Your clash flash color choices are limited.  With the RGBA, if you wire the green on the PE you'd get a purplish white clash/flash.  With the RGGB if you wire both greens with PEs you'd get a greenish white.  With the RGBA you can wire the A on the clash/flash and no clue what you'd get :D
Any idea what resistor I should use?
(And I like the sound of the single green on the RGBA)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on February 11, 2010, 06:41:52 AM
To be completely honest, I do not know which resistor.  I have yet to try to get Magenta with the 10Ws :'(  Normally, we would use a potentiometer anyhow.  We don't usually use resistors, I was just throwing it out there as one method to use.  Try a lower resistance pot in the 200-500 ohm neighborhood.  Other than that, resistors are cheap, trial and error :-\
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: GENERAL GRIEVOUS on February 11, 2010, 11:33:10 AM
You get Magenta on a 10W by wiring the R & B dice in parallel and resitoring or potting the blue. Your clash flash color choices are limited.  With the RGBA, if you wire the green on the PE you'd get a purplish white clash/flash.  With the RGGB if you wire both greens with PEs you'd get a greenish white.  With the RGBA you can wire the A on the clash/flash and no clue what you'd get :D
Any idea what resistor I should use?
(And I like the sound of the single green on the RGBA)

I would try a 68, 150 and 220 Ohm 1/4w and see which you like.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: erv on February 11, 2010, 11:49:44 AM
answer is as usual "it depends" :
- on LEDs Vf
- current used

+ subjectivity aka "color taste"
a power pot  (1W) => measure it once color is choosen => fixed resistor. Don't use pots in the permanent setup.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Jasher Kain on February 11, 2010, 04:44:47 PM
http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=17954.15
The link to the color I'm shooting for.

@ Erv:
I was originally planning to run an LEDEngin off of 7.4V...but I'm assuming I'd only be able to power a 5W one?
There's not enough room for extra batteries in the hilt. :-\

@ LDM:
I'll try each and post pics of each one.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on February 11, 2010, 07:17:25 PM
My understanding is that 7.4V is fine for the 10W because you are only using 2 dice, the red and blue and 7.4 is sufficient (it works that way when wired in series at any rate).  In parallel, I believe the voltage is still fine, it is the current that is the problem.  When you run in series you want up to 1.5A to the two dice (We normally use 1.3A for purple).  When you run in parallel, you need 1-1.5A to each die.  In order to achieve that with two 14500 Lithium Ions, I think you would need to use a power extender with each die, and then a third for the green die for the clash flash.  Hopefully Erv’ will confirm this for sure. 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: erv on February 12, 2010, 01:09:07 AM
ayla is right, it's not about voltage, it's about current AND voltage.
P = U x I

wiring 2 dice in serie is great cause you have current only once ( plus clash flash) and R+B makes it a good choice with a pretty low Vf. Wiring in // is okay too but only with identical Vf (or tricks) BUT it will take twice the current at lower voltage.

I'd like to take your attention to one point : 14500 cells are very popular cause they are small. Remember that they are 900 mAh, with a 1.5 discharge rate = 1.35 A max. Even that rate is too high for chinese batteries and the life time is reduced if you pump too much.
I use 14500 only with luxeon V @1A (graflex, my yoda). If you plan to take more current, use bigger batteries, like 18650, I use them a lot too, and run time is considerably longer.
Using some 14500 for 1.5A is still "okay" for a special saber with a 1 min demo only , even if it's not correct on the electrical point of view. I know that when you power the saber "it lights up" but it not correct, respect the discharge rate of batteries, otherwise your pack will die pretty quickly.
Again, I try to lower my "professionnal attitude" when it's about display / demo saber, but I really prefer to have saber I can run for 2 hours without thinking about killing my cells.

On another note, using 14500 @1.5A is still *very* acceptable compared to some individuals who made the retarded choice to pull 4 amps out of those same cells. Obviously the normal 2:1 safety factor (capability = 2 x actual use) has been turned into a 1:3 one  :o ::)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Jasher Kain on February 12, 2010, 08:05:47 AM
Thanks, Erv. I must confess that before joining this Forum I knew absolutely NOTHING about electronics...and as you can see from my following questions, I still have much to learn:

1. What you mentioned about the 14500 concerns me because I like to use the 16340...and they're only 880mAh. That's fine for running Lux III's, right? Or would I get more time out of a Lux V?

2. Just to double-check: when using the resistors, the higher value eats more current, right? So using a lower value resistor would give me a darker hue and using a higher value resistor would give me a lighter hue?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: xwingband on February 12, 2010, 11:58:21 AM
Thanks, Erv. I must confess that before joining this Forum I knew absolutely NOTHING about electronics...and as you can see from my following questions, I still have much to learn:

1. What you mentioned about the 14500 concerns me because I like to use the 16340...and they're only 880mAh. That's fine for running Lux III's, right? Or would I get more time out of a Lux V?

2. Just to double-check: when using the resistors, the higher value eats more current, right? So using a lower value resistor would give me a darker hue and using a higher value resistor would give me a lighter hue?

1) 880mAh is a capacity, not how much it can discharge.  ER14505's a lithium primary cell is 2400mAh, but can at the most put out .5A.  If you look at the data sheet it says that it's 2400mAh is at .1A and that capacity is greatly diminished at higher currents.

2) ehh, sort of?  A higher value resistor will dissipate more current as heat when compared to a lower value in the same application!  So the second part of the question is true if one die is made to be the constant.  Say you put the red die at 1A (driver or a predetermined resistor) and played around with resistance until you had the shade you wanted with the different amounts of blue added.  Lower resistance would in that case be more blue and a darker purple color.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on February 12, 2010, 04:45:27 PM
To add to Erv's thoughts about the 14500s and their 1.5A max discharge limit... clash flash setups benefit greatly from a matching battery setup. Do not try to underdrive these LedEngins. You'll be disasspointed.

Also, if at all possible, try to use larger cells if your particular saber can fit them. If 18650s in line are too long, try 18500s, for example. Recently, I'm a fan of 14630s. These are the same width as 14500s (14mm, ~AA sized), so can still fit in MHS pieces side by side, but are slightly longer (63mm instead of 50mm), so have ~1100mah of [advertised] capacity instead of ~800mah [advertised capacity].


If you want the best li-ion cells for your clash flash setup and don't mind paying extra for better performance, I thoroughly enjoy AW brand cells. Xwingband turned me onto them last year and nowadays I use them exclusively in any of my CF Clash builds (thanks XWB!). The cells are rated at 5A+ max discharge, which is overkill for our hobby's current purposes and really opens up the possibilities for brightness+clash at levels which on paper would fry Ultrafire/Trustfire/Tenergy cells.

For example, I recently finished an LE10W BB+BB setup using two 14630s. The main pad runs at 1.4A, and the clash is setup for 1A clash.  Very satisfying, while still able to fit in a very compact hilt, with the bonus peace of mind that I'm still way below the cell PCB's threshold..... 


Check them out here:

 http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=200812

 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Jasher Kain on February 13, 2010, 12:03:19 AM
@ xwingband:
Thanks for the explanation. Now I know what to do.

@ Goodman:
Thanks for the info about alternative battery choices. I think I'll have enough room in this project to give those 14500s a try.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on February 16, 2010, 01:18:10 PM
Has someone already tried the SST 50 LED's and compared them to these LedEngines?

Not sure if they are in other colors than White, but I've seen Flashlights out of those.
Not seen SST-90 Flashlights yet, so I think those will not be possible for our lightsabers either.
lights yet, so I think those will not be possible for our lightsabers either.

One extra question I'm stuck with;
Does anyone know if it's possible to fit a LE10W RGGB into a JQ-Sabers Brass Qui Gon Jinn saber with CF Board and batteries?
I like it to be Purple and to use the GG for a Bright White Clash Flash.
Can this setup be done with 2x18650 Lithiums?

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: JANGO FETT on February 16, 2010, 01:45:11 PM
There is no way you can fit 2x18650's A CF and the switch box they use in a JQ Qui.
2x 16430 barely fits.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on February 16, 2010, 02:26:05 PM
There is no way you can fit 2x18650's A CF and the switch box they use in a JQ Qui.
2x 16430 barely fits.

And using other sized Lithiums, is it possible than to get the LE10 RGGB in this hilt for this purpose, RB for Purple and GG for Clashflash?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on February 17, 2010, 09:38:57 AM
The JQ Qui I built with an LE10W GG+B clash used a 9.6V 1000mAh NiMH pack.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on February 17, 2010, 09:45:31 AM
What was your battery configuration John?  8 AAAs?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on February 17, 2010, 11:27:02 AM
Yep, AAAs. I was pleasantly surprised that they held the clash well. No noticeable difference between it and a 7.2v li-ion pack. Li-ions take higher discharges (clash) more durably I was told, but I have an identical setup on a saber I've benchtested for five months, so I'm confident in saying it is at least worth a shot if someone wants to try it.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on February 17, 2010, 11:35:30 AM
Just seems like an awful lot of batteries to use.  Most of our builds are space constrained :D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on February 17, 2010, 12:26:10 PM

Yeah, it's definitely a longer setup. I only recommended it for the JQ Qui since that's what he asked about, and because the JQ Qui cannot fit 14500s side by side, and not in line, either, whereas the 8xAAA setup was a perfect fit.

More experiments, everyone!
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on February 17, 2010, 02:03:47 PM
SO with 8xAAA (HAHAHA, anum sorry but I can see Darens face when I suggest that to him for my Brass Qui) I can do a Purple RG and use 1xG for clash instead of both G's (The LED contains RGGB if I'm right), but how long will the saber last?
10 minutes or so?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on February 17, 2010, 02:22:15 PM
You use the RB for purple, not RG.  However, why not use both Gs?  You'll get a brighter Clash Flash.  Just sayin' :D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on February 17, 2010, 02:34:54 PM
For some uses - like filming - 10 minutes would be plenty...how many saber fights have you seen onscreen that went on 10 minutes in a single  continuous shot?

Me neither.

Change batteries every 10 minutes between shots/takes = nodda problemo

Of course if you do live stage shows  ;) your mileage WILL vary

Run time matters but only depending on your own personal saber purpose - if the technology allowed us to trade 1/10 the runtime for 10 times the brightness with all else [soundboards etc] remaining equal it would be a happy trade off for me but of course impossibly worse than useless situation for Novastar...just one of those "from a certain point of view" things.

Personally I wouldnt dismiss 8xAAA out of hand.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on February 17, 2010, 03:41:11 PM
Where are you getting 10 minutes from anyway?  Is that that new Math? 

The tenergy NIMH AAAs are 1000 mah, which means at 1A they should run for 1hr.  Now granted, if you drive them a bit higher, account for PWM and some extra FX this number will be significantly reduced, but you should still get at least 20-30 mins.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on February 17, 2010, 03:59:54 PM
Nah it's old Matth

http://instantrimshot.com

Thanks for the PERFECT set up Luminara

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on February 17, 2010, 04:03:21 PM
Nah it's old Matth

http://instantrimshot.com

Thanks for the PERFECT set up Luminara



It's all about being a team player ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on February 17, 2010, 07:38:41 PM

Lol y'all... :)

20-30 mins easy on the JQ setup I did. A lot longer than most people ever have their sabers outside and turned on at any one time.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: erv on February 17, 2010, 11:17:05 PM
The tenergy NIMH AAAs are 1000 mah, which means at 1A they should run for 1hr.  Now granted, if you drive them a bit higher, account for PWM and some extra FX this number will be significantly reduced, but you should still get at least 20-30 mins.

sorry to bring non linear math here  ;)

Ah isn't a linear unit for current x time. Once more, the correct answer is "it depends" and you don't have any rule of the thumb applying here. I posted that somewhere else but I'll go again with some explanations. Not that I feel you guys are stubborn (seriously) AND I'm here to help with EE stuf (my pleasure).

the Ah or mAh is the CAPACITY. It describes a standard way to quantify the amount of juice in a cell.
Saying that for 1Ah you can have 1A during 1 hour would be right if voltage wouldn't change on the cell or if at least voltage would go down BUT would stay ABOVE the led Vf so that its driver (if any is used) maintains current, hence brightness of the LED.

When you start pumping out 1A out of a 1Ah nimh cell, voltage drops quickly. Here, of course, having more cells provide more runtime since votlage starts at 9.6V but overall voltage will drop quickly.

Add to this the fact nimh cells have a huge internal resistance making it a "weak" current source compared to li-ion. Why ? any battery or power source acts as a perfect voltage/current source with a resistor in serie. When current flow, a voltage can be seen accros this resistor (you can't measure this with your DMM it's happening inside the cell) and voltage drops. So even with a fresh battery when you pump juice AND voltage from the cell is STILL internally good, the voltage across the terminals drops due to the internal resistance loss.
It's worse with nimh since internal resistance is way higher than li-ion, and pumping juiince out of ni-mh hence creates a LOT of voltage ripple, reason why I never use AAA with a sound board.

more for you to read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_(electricity) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_(electricity))

2 points to consider :
- if you want to apply a linear relation between current, runtime and Capacity, that might work with a current = 1/10th or 1/20th of the capacity, which is the "normal" or expected use of a battery / cell for classic use like MP3 players.
That rule changes with li-ion since it reacts better to higher discharge but you won't have runtime by saying it's = C / Current used IF Capacity equal current used. The rule of 1/2 or 1/4 is more realistic but again it depends on the LED used and pack voltage.Like using a lux V with a 14500 pack @1A : Vf = almost 7V or more with the little power losses in the driver / sound board, hence your runtime @ constance current is from 8.4V (fully charged) to 7V. The max voltage of a freshly charged pack doesn't last long like 5 minutes, so after a short time, the driver will be pushing PWM drive to the max, and brightness will quickly decline.
I use lux V and 14500 quite often, but I *know* that it's great with fully charge batteries AND ultra short demos. For heavy duty sabers like telum infensus, I have a Ledengin with 16850 cells and I measured at least 1.5 hours of runtime at 1.5A.

- the only way to really measure runtime is to take an amp meter or have a CF with the low power led setup pretty close to the right voltage (cut down voltage = PCB protection on li-ion cells if the said voltage remains above Vf, or voltage under which brightness isn't maintained anymore, most of the time use Vf).
Then run the saber and wait until you reach the limit.
For instance using a K2 on a li-ion 2 cell pack : Vf < cut off voltage (around 5.2V), so autonomy is pack runtime (wait for it to die) but on a 4xAA nimh with a red lux III, low voltage is about 3V, which is below CF operating voltage => wait for the sound board to die.


again for me RUNTIME is the duration during which brightness / current in the LED is nominal for the setup you consider. If you count runtime as the duration during which your led was still on, it's probably wrong at least to me, except in the particular cases when the li-ion pack cuts before reaching Vf.
What do you say when you pick up your flash light and it barely lightups just enough to pray the deads ? even if you're optimistic, you won't say hey, still alive, but more like oh xxx it's gonna light up for max 30 sec.
Same for me for a saber, I just hate powering up one and see it very dim and I can't consider it's "okay"

if someone wants to make the right tutorial out of it, add things then stiky it : GO !  :)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Goodman on February 17, 2010, 11:33:39 PM
Erv, you're awesome! I for one always enjoy learning from your insight, and having to reconcile theory with practice. They can both inform each other. :)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on February 18, 2010, 05:52:10 AM
Where are you getting 10 minutes from anyway?  Is that that new Math? 
It was more of a question/quessing, but Goodman answered it.
Perfect by the way, 20 minutes is already enough brightpower for me.
Goodman thanks.
I think this wil be the setup that I ask Daren for me to do.
8 AAA NiMH with the RGGB.
You use the RB for purple, not RG.  However, why not use both Gs?  You'll get a brighter Clash Flash.  Just sayin' :D
Ofcourse it will be the RB for Purple.(slip of fingers) Thank you Luminara for keeping us on track, your awsome.

I think this saber will be amazing next to a regular Qui with LE10 GG and RB for clash Flash.

Also thanks you all the others too for helping too.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Jedibowls on April 23, 2010, 08:50:21 AM
Could you run a 10 w GG off of 8.4 V NiMh 1000 Ma? Is that enough to sufficently power the 10w? Thank you
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on June 13, 2010, 07:15:24 AM
Using a LedEngine 5 Amber compared to Green, is the amber a lot dimmer for your eyes?
Is that answer the same when you use P4 Amber vs Green or another LED?
Can someone place a comparison Pic please?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on June 13, 2010, 10:22:17 AM
P4s and P5s are not as bright as 10W LEDEngins.  Actually, they aren't as bright as 5W LEDEngins either, if both are properly driven.  Amber is not as bright to the eyes as green no matter which LED you use.  The human eye sees green the brightest. 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on June 13, 2010, 01:44:58 PM
Ahahh, but when you mix green with red to get yellow, will that be brighter that, or do you also need to lower the green to receive the yellow?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on June 13, 2010, 03:27:11 PM
Even with only two dies running, the blade should still be brighter than a P4 or P5.  First of all, with a P5 you will also only have two dice running.  With a solid P4 amber, they are nowhere near as bright as with the green and red die on the LEDEngin.  How the mix will work will depend on how much current you give.  The first thing to do is experiment with the running the red and green at full power and play with the parameters on the V5.  If you don't get the mix you want, then hook up a potentiometer to one color and then the other until you get what you are looking for.  Are you planning on doing this install yourself? 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on June 14, 2010, 01:00:26 AM
I leave that up to a Saber smid.
But it is possible to change numbers on the Micro SD of the CF-5, to slightly change the color a bit myself?

So you say that a P7 with yellow filter, isn't as bright as a P5 RG, so I can close that out than.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on June 14, 2010, 10:35:50 AM
I did not say that.  I said a P5 is not as bright as a LEDEngin 10W.  I have not tried a P7 with a filter.  The problem is the P7 is difficult to fit in most sabers and may also require additional heat management.  I do not know of anyone who has made a P7 yellow with a filter and compared it to a properly mixed LEDEngin 10W side by side, both correctly driven.  What you need to consider is what hilt is it going in and will it even have the room for a P7?  If so, then hire your sabersmith to try both and send you pics ;).
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on June 14, 2010, 11:07:01 AM
Ah yes, no P7 than, and P4 is less bright.
It msut be the LedEngine 10 than.
In another thread I just learned that to receive yellow you have to lower the Red a bit on a P5 RG.
That's great cause instead of lowering the Red with a RGGB LedEngine 10, I can also use the second G dise to increase a bit of green to get the yellow.
This will make the whole saber incredible bright.
I can use the left over B for clashflash.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on June 14, 2010, 01:19:08 PM
DM, it depends on how the power is being given.  The color you resist depends on the LED itself and how it is being driven.  You cannot generalize that way.  Also, depending on the bin of the dice, you may not be able to run 3 and 1 with V5 and then again you may.  This is one of those you won't know until you try it situations ;). 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on June 14, 2010, 01:41:56 PM
Any idea what Bin I must use for getting the Yellow out of a RGGB LedEngine X?
Thanks again Luminara Unduli, your knowledge is great, and well appreciated.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on June 14, 2010, 02:18:09 PM
There is no way to select bins with the LEDEngins.   You get what you get, unfortunately.  I also do not know of any way to tell once you have it in hand either, as they are not marked.  At this point, we have not experimented with the Yellow and V5 as we do not have any V5 yet :'(.  When we do, you can rest assured Fender and I will be continuing our LEDEngin research with them :D.  We have a customer who has requested yellow, so we will be working on it :D.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on August 04, 2010, 04:54:30 AM
Are there LedEngine 10's with more than just one dies of Red?
Like RRGB or some thing.
I like a 10W Red with Clash Flash, but will only one Red dies make it so much brighter than the Lux II Red/orange?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on August 04, 2010, 05:26:49 AM
You have to use the 10W red, which is a solid RRRR.  There is no RRGB or RRGW or RRGB :(.  However, the 10W Red with clash flash gives a very sweet effect, see here
, to give you an idea.  It is hard to capture on vid, but the clash flash red is so ridiculously bright that it is a noticeable change from the already uber bright main LED.  LEDEngins rock!
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on August 04, 2010, 06:22:59 AM
Thank you.
I hoped for other news, but hey,... this Red Clash Flashing effect will work too.
RRRR it is than.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on August 07, 2010, 07:31:29 AM
You have to use the 10W red, which is a solid RRRR.  There is no RRGB or RRGW or RRGB :(.  However, the 10W Red with clash flash gives a very sweet effect, see here
, to give you an idea.  It is hard to capture on vid, but the clash flash red is so ridiculously bright that it is a noticeable change from the already uber bright main LED.  LEDEngins rock!

I've psoted this in the other thread, but I don't want to pirate that thread, so,...
When I only look at the Main RR LEDs for brightnes, without the Clash Flashing effect,...
Is the LedEngine 10W RR still brighter than the Lux III Red/Orange?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on August 07, 2010, 08:37:29 AM
Matth, on paper, the LEDEngin with 2 dice running for the main LED is 280 lumens at 1500 ma vs. the Lux III red-o which is 190 lumens at 1400 ma.  So, the LEDEngin is quite a bit brighter.  Will your eyes notice a significant difference?  Hard to say.  All I can say is it is darn bright.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on August 07, 2010, 09:24:04 AM
For what I understand is that I get a same like bright saber, but with a much more beautyfull Red color.
And ofcourse the amazing Clashflash than.

It's good to know, so I don't expectr too much of the main brightness alone, when my Vader ANH MPP arives.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: gchu149 on August 09, 2010, 02:25:38 AM
When using a power extender for clash flash, are multiple power extenders needed if running 2 dies of a 10 watt Ledengin for the clash?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on August 09, 2010, 06:12:34 AM
No.  It can be done with one, depending on your set up. 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: gchu149 on August 09, 2010, 08:28:02 AM
How about RA for clash using an 10 watt Ledengin RGBA while using GB for the main?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on August 09, 2010, 08:35:31 AM
What battery solution? 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: gchu149 on August 09, 2010, 03:56:34 PM
7.4 Li-ion on a CFv4.31.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on August 09, 2010, 05:06:21 PM
If you run the G & B in series to the main and the R & A in series to the PE you should be fine :).
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: JANGO FETT on August 10, 2010, 05:17:20 PM
Was anyone used an RBGA with the RA as the main color before?

What color does it produce? like one of the older Lux III R/O?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: gchu149 on August 10, 2010, 05:56:14 PM
Novastar tried doing that and, quote Nova, "Yup! It's orange!"

I'm assuming it's not as pure of an orange as the Amber die alone, but it must be much brighter. Probably a lighter shade than the Lux 3 R/O, as I saw in the video.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Xusia on August 10, 2010, 06:51:01 PM
I did. it was a VERY bright red/orange, more orange than red.
Then my CF 4.1 dumped on me before I could get any pics. :(
Erv is repairing it. :)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on August 10, 2010, 07:57:15 PM
Oooh that sounds promising...I loooove orange sabers.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: JANGO FETT on August 10, 2010, 10:49:38 PM
It's really orange.
Burnt toast is now a 10a RA main led with a BG CoF

video update later....
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: gchu149 on August 10, 2010, 11:16:36 PM
May I ask what battery solution you are using, Jango?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: JANGO FETT on August 11, 2010, 12:35:10 AM
I use 2x 18650 li-ions in my K3GR1's
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on August 23, 2010, 08:55:08 AM
It's really orange.
Burnt toast is now a 10a RA main led with a BG CoF

video update later....

What we call Flash on Clash, is that now called CoF, like Clash on Flash?
If so it can better be called FoC Flash on Clash. ;)

I cannot find a table of the LedEngines variations, is there a link somewhere to get?

I now also need a 10W LEdEngine Blue with (Clash Flash or maybe CoF ;D ) for my Obi TPM.
Is there also a RBBG?
Or is that only with the Green RGGB, cause that would be sad.
If that would be the case I think I'll go for a Cyan Obi TPM with RG for the Clash Flashing effect and GB for the main Cyan blade.
That would be much more impressive than a BBBB saber with a Blue Flashing effect.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on August 23, 2010, 09:08:42 AM
This has been posted before but I will post it again for your convenience ;).

LEDEngin 10Ws come in RRRR, BBBB, GGGG, AAAA, and WWWW for solid colors.  The multi die colors are RGBA, RGGB, and RGBW currently.  There are no other options at this time.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on August 23, 2010, 11:30:40 AM
Ohh thanks.
Yes I knew you posted this somewhere, but I could not find it on both LedEngine topics, except for the one here;
http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=18890.msg363509#msg363509
So I thought I must have been mistaken

Now that I see yours again, I remember.
I must have overread it on all those pages.

Your to good for us dear Luminara.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Brazilian Jedi on September 01, 2010, 03:38:27 PM
Friends,

A friend of mine is planning on working with a LedEngin RBGA to try and produce a purple blade and he has a couple of questions (sorry if they seem dull, my electronics knowledge is pretty basic..):

1. which resistors should he use for each diode? How do I calculate that?

2. Does this project seem functional? Does it look crappy? Will it mess things up?

Project: (https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi46.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff101%2Fedianese%2FHilts%2520para%2520treinos%2FPurplesaberprojectRGBA.png&hash=cc666e2308654c5729e96549daa74d14efd888f6)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on September 01, 2010, 03:43:51 PM
It will work, but you would probably not resist the blue at all if you want to get a decent shade of purple.  Also, it would be much better to use a driver, once again resisting the red.  When you do not use a driver, as the batteries run down the blade gets pinker and pinker, so you do not keep a consistent purple.  It also depends on which batteries AA or AAA.  If they are AA you might be able to squeeze enough current but if AAA it will not be very bright at all.  In either case, more voltage & current would be preferable.  2 LiIon 18650s are always a good choice ;).
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Brazilian Jedi on September 02, 2010, 02:02:15 PM
Thanks for the prompt answer, Luminara!

And here follows two more questions from my friend:

1. So you mean to wire this (http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/BuckPuck-700mA-4-wire-P363.aspx) to the red die, instead of using a resistor?
2. Isn't it risky not to wire the blue die? I'm afraid it might overheat.

I'm thinking of changing my battery solution to a rechargeable 9 V (NiMH, if I can find one), so that I can use the puck. Is it possible or am I forgetting anything important?

Thanks again in advance.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on September 02, 2010, 02:17:54 PM
1. No.  You would use the driver between the battery pack and both LED dice and then resist the red.  Also, you would use the 1000ma buckpuck here http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/BuckPuck-1000mA-4-wire-P364.aspx or something like this http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/Adjustable-LED-driver-P497.aspx .

2. LiIon batteries are a better choice.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Brazilian Jedi on September 03, 2010, 11:49:33 AM
Thnx again Master Luminara!

And, if you still have the patience, here follows the last group of questions:

1. What's a driver for?
2. Will I have to use one driver per die or does one driver work with both red and blue dice?
3. You recommended that I resisted the red die and leave the blue not resisted. Wouldn't the blue die burn up?
4. I don't mean to bother, but I've gotten rather confused, as you may already have noticed. Can you send me schematics of a purple RGBA saber? I don't know where to install each part (driver, puck and resistor, specifically). 
5. How to fit and install the two 18650 Li-Ions in the hilt? They're larger than AA cells.

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on September 03, 2010, 12:24:44 PM
Thnx again Master Luminara!

And, if you still have the patience, here follows the last group of questions:

1. What's a driver for?
2. Will I have to use one driver per die or does one driver work with both red and blue dice?
3. You recommended that I resisted the red die and leave the blue not resisted. Wouldn't the blue die burn up?
4. I don't mean to bother, but I've gotten rather confused, as you may already have noticed. Can you send me schematics of a purple RGBA saber? I don't know where to install each part (driver, puck and resistor, specifically). 
5. How to fit and install the two 18650 Li-Ions in the hilt? They're larger than AA cells.



1. The driver allows the current to remain constant during the life of the batteries and also helps regulate the voltage as voltage follows current.  This is particularly important for purples as mixing the color to the perfect shade of purple has to do with adjusting the current.  Which is the reason why you use the resistor.

2.  If you want the easiest way and are not particular about the particular shade, wire the R & B dice in series (no resistor on either) and use a 1A buckpuck off of a 7.4V battery pack (2x18650s OR  2 14500s wired in series).  If you are like me and want a more specific shade then you would want to use 2 buck pucks wired in parallel to the battery pack (once again a 7.4V pack, 2x18650s this time no 14500s).  On the red die, use a potentiometer between the buckpuck and the red die and dial in the shade of purple you want on the potentiometer (obviously the blue die needs to be hooked to the other puck at the same time or it won't work).  Once you get the shade you want, measure the resistance and replace the potentiometer with the appropriate resistor (only on the red).

3.  Resist the red if in parallel with 2 pucks.  Resist neither if in series with one.  The blue will not burn up, the puck will properly drive the LED.

4.  I do not have any schematics for the RGBA saber.  We use several different setups depending on the specific build and I've never taken  the time to make up a set of schematics.  We rarely build stunts with 10W LEDs, so use the higher end soundboards US, PC, or CF as the driver.

5.  You develop a talent called "Cram-Fu" :D.  Try setting it up with a "stick-pack" rather than a side by side pack.  Of course it depends on the saber.  If you go with the easy scenario where you cannot adjust the shade you can use 14500s, which are approximately the same size as a traditional AA.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: JANGO FETT on September 11, 2010, 07:24:57 PM
Just finished testing the 10w RGBW.
Wired the BW in series and the GR in series for the FoC.

The BW produced a dirty W blade. Not very impressive. I wanted a silvery blue. I will probably need to switch the wiring to parallel and add a resistor on the white to get the silvery blue I am looking for.

The GR FoC produced a very nice pale Yellow.

No pics, just testing it out.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on September 12, 2010, 06:43:46 AM
No pics?  Boo :(.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Shadeslinger on September 12, 2010, 07:03:11 AM
This isn't a new thought I'm sure, but has anyone ever considered doing led surgery on the Ledengin 10 watts? I mean, is it
possible to swap out the individual dies to make a custom configuration like say a BBGG or RBRB? I understand that one would need the skill
and the right tools to do it, but I'm curious if anyone has tried or if it even can be done. I know xwingband had some kind of reflow setup when he made the tri-rebels a while back, surely someone around here has the talents to pull it off? (if no, then I won't call you shirley ;D)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on September 12, 2010, 07:26:33 AM
The thing with the tri-rebels is that they are actually 3 different LEDs.  There was no real trick to that and X-Wing wasn't the only one making them, just the only one here selling them.   Some of the LED companies offer that service also.  With a LEDEngin, the four dice are connected on one wafer under a single dome (which is why they are superior to the tri-rebels for saber building in every way).  We can't even get LEDEngin to consider custom colors because the tooling is all pre-configured and they want a minimum thousand piece order (in the neighborhood of $25,000), and that is just for one configuration.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: JANGO FETT on September 12, 2010, 08:30:19 AM
No pics?  Boo :(.

It was really
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi20.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb219%2FNailbunny375%2Fbleh128561568514698851.jpg&hash=fa560a05f0d67521f51d11488776dd2bded4bd42) (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b219/Nailbunny375/bleh128561568514698851.jpg)

the BG setup came out nice
http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=23993.msg371994#msg371994 (http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=23993.msg371994#msg371994)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Master Durangus on September 12, 2010, 10:06:14 AM
Jango, from the pictures it looks like Graflex Lux V is brighter than the BG LedEngin setup... which is brighter to your eyes?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: djobitwan7 on September 12, 2010, 10:14:27 AM
All 3 seem almost the same brightness. I'd be no help, but they all look great to me.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: JANGO FETT on September 12, 2010, 11:12:26 AM
They are about the same. It would be brighter with a CF5, as it could drive them at 2a, vs the cf 4.31 at 1.5a
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: shef on September 12, 2010, 12:04:29 PM
Preemptive apology.    I haven't even hit my 3 month mark here on these forums, so I know just enough to be dangerous.  I'll try to keep it short, and on topic.

I am planning on a CF5 build... saving my pennies  ;).  I would like to utilize it's higher LED output with a 10W multi-color LED (for clash on flash).  So I'm starting a shopping list (limiting to electronics only for the sake of this thread). 

What is the likelihood of making a modular LED for this type of setup?  Say, one 'jedi-ish' (green w/ white clash), one 'sithy' (red w/ orange clash). 
  I imagine   BOARD > ?Buck Puck(s)/Power Extender(s)? > Multi-wire QC > Resistors (if applicable) > LED

Maybe some of what I am asking is outlined in Erv's CF manual.  I'm slowly reading through that, but I see all the usual suspects posting in this thread, so if anyone's done this, chances are, they're playing in this sandbox.  If you're feeling so inclined, please be as descriptive as possible, or if not, at least please, be gentle :)

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on September 12, 2010, 12:19:48 PM
You can do it with quick disconnects and an RGBA and RGGB.  The RGGB will give you a green with purplish white clash.  The RGBA will give you a blood orange with cyanish clash (very cool setup).  You would use a 7.4V battery pack, preferably 18650s.  The GG wired in series, the RB wired in series for clash flash, then the RA in series with the GB in series for the clash flash.  You put the resistor on the power extender.  The voltage of the GB and the voltage of the RB are not the same but calculate your resistor for the RB and it will be fine for the GB as well.  
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on September 12, 2010, 01:16:15 PM
Blood orange with cyan clash sounds UBER-cool.  8)

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: shef on September 12, 2010, 01:45:08 PM
Did I just miss it somewhere in this thread?  Where can someone find these RGB 10w's on PCB stars?

Edit:  Oh, good grief...
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/LedEngin/LZ4-20MA10/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsrChSOYEGTCZEMtViDdqha

How heavy-duty of a heatsink is needed for one of these?  Would one of the TCSS Luxeon Star Heatsinks (http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/Luxeon-star-heatsink--P220.aspx) suffice?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on September 12, 2010, 06:46:17 PM
If your driver and battery solution are correct, the copper heatsinks TCSS sells are fine here http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/Copper-MHS-LED-MountHeatsink-P234.aspx .  Keep in mind copper is a significantly better material for heatsinks than aluminum.  We have never tried the aluminum ones with the 10Ws so cannot speak for them.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: shef on September 26, 2010, 09:25:04 AM
The RGBA will give you a blood orange with cyanish clash (very cool setup)....You put the resistor on the power extender.


  For many reasons, I am opting for a single Ledengin (rather than modular).  I ordered the RGBA yesterday, as well as supplies to build a 2x 18650 li-ion pack.

For this 'blood orange' with 'cyannish', the R&A dice would be wired in series, to the main LED pads of the CF board.  And the G&B would be wired in series from one of the accent LED pads, through a power extender, correct?  Would additional resistance be necessary?

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on September 26, 2010, 10:55:30 AM
If you have a V5, you do not wire the G&B from the accent pad via the power extender, you wire it from the clash pad.  And, yes, you definitely need a resistor for the G & B.  If you want to run your clash flash at 1A (for example), a 2w 2 ohm resistor should be OK.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: shef on September 26, 2010, 12:45:24 PM
I just revisited the CF handbook.  Thanks again for keeping me on course Luminara.  I'm still stalking the PL site, hoping to spot some hot buttered toast.  In the meantime, I am meticulously planning.  Vader's Vault has seduced me.  I too want to learn to use that (10w) power.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Caine on September 28, 2010, 11:28:41 PM
Okay, now a question on the 5W reds...

There seems to be different types...red, deep red and far red (I ordered a plain red to try out) but has anyone used the other reds and how do they compare in both brightness and shades?

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: darth_call on September 29, 2010, 02:28:11 AM
http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=20426.0

This uses a "far red" and was pretty comparable to the regular red.

Deep red was pretty disappointing.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Forgetful Jedi Knight on October 02, 2010, 12:42:51 PM
Caine,

I have a 5W Red and a 5W Deep Red. though I haven't wired them to a hilt yet (I'm waiting for another heatsink)  ::). The Deep Red looks a tad darker shade wise. Personally I am leaning towards that for a sith saber I have been working on.  I won't know about overall brightness until I get everything hooked up, which will be in about another week.

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: shef on October 04, 2010, 11:53:41 AM
Question about wiring a 10W RGBA LED.  According to the data sheet, I have correctly identified the 4 different quadrants of the LED dome, but I'm looking for some verification of which solder pads are associated with which die.
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi140.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr32%2F_chef_fox%2FCustom%2520Saber%2FMHS%2520w%252010w%2520RGBA%2FSNC00389.jpg&hash=40ddd6297ec1aec76be860fc9c37e400045987ca) (http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r32/_chef_fox/Custom%20Saber/MHS%20w%2010w%20RGBA/SNC00389.jpg)

I'm uncertain, and am in the process of drawing up my wiring schematic.  Notice the white dot on the top left (10 o'clock) position.  Is it placed between the (-) negative & (+) positive pads for the red die?  Or, does it separate the red and blue dice? 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Xusia on October 04, 2010, 12:01:25 PM
From what I can see in your pic, it separates the red and blue.

*EDIT* You can test it with a single li-ion battery. Just tap the pads with the wires.
I use a single AA battery holder for that very purpose.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Forgetful Jedi Knight on October 04, 2010, 12:03:57 PM
Shef,

The leads for the LEDs should are the ones closest to the LEDs . The ones for red are on either side of the dot. The Amber ones are the two small ones on the inside, Green is big and small, Blue is small and big. If you have a battery pack with open ended wire leads, just try placing the plus and minus wires on the leads. Make sure you close your eyes as you do it.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Caine on October 04, 2010, 01:34:05 PM
I hooked the red up to my P.C. Obi (it actually turned out to be the Far Red) and running at 1.5a, it was no brighter then a P4. IMO, not worth the $11 I paid for it. Oh well, live and learn.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: shef on October 04, 2010, 04:41:42 PM
The ones for red are on either side of the dot. The Amber ones are the two small ones on the inside, Green is big and small, Blue is small and big.

This is what I assumed, but was looking for some confirmation.  My 18650's are still on order, so I cannot perform a physical test (yet).  I just want to get it all on 'paper', so I can diagram how to 'bridge' the dice in series.

 (https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi140.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr32%2F_chef_fox%2FCustom%2520Saber%2FMHS%2520w%252010w%2520RGBA%2F10W_RGBA.jpg&hash=39a19a99aaf78e2236470eda924ce5d0f314e4a0) (http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r32/_chef_fox/Custom%20Saber/MHS%20w%2010w%20RGBA/10W_RGBA.jpg)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Forgetful Jedi Knight on October 05, 2010, 03:32:07 PM
See Luminara's note below!!!
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on October 05, 2010, 04:16:09 PM
Nope.

Cyan would be blue and green ;).  Blue and amber is going to be sort of green.  Red and Green is orange (or yellow depending on the mix).
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: pneumoniaprone on October 05, 2010, 04:36:17 PM
Simple color wheel visual aid.

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi649.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu219%2Fpneumoniaprone%2Fth_color_wheel.jpg&hash=67ca806f59a319af14f43c06b71d71fe0ccf066b) (http://s649.photobucket.com/albums/uu219/pneumoniaprone/?action=view&current=color_wheel.jpg)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Forgetful Jedi Knight on October 05, 2010, 04:55:20 PM
@Luminara: Thanks for the info.   :-[ In paint Red and Green usually makes a Brownish color.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on October 05, 2010, 05:10:23 PM
Right, but light works different than paint :D.  Red, green, and blue are the primary colors of light ;).

Actually, pneumoniaprone that is also a paint color wheel.  Here is one for light:

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi136.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq169%2FAJFenderBender%2Fth_colorwheel.jpg&hash=d498449efb76faef60b352cf5a1ca135fb589929) (http://s136.photobucket.com/albums/q169/AJFenderBender/?action=view&current=colorwheel.jpg)

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: pneumoniaprone on October 05, 2010, 05:22:10 PM
Yeah yours is a much better example but it works the same doesn't it? The painted color wheel would also assume that all color in equal saturation equals white and the absence of color equals black.

Mixing a secondary green with a primary red in both cases with give you something between a primary yellow and tertiary orange.

Why are the primary in the light spectrum different or I guess the better question is why do they use a secondary color (green) instead of three primary colors?



*Sorry I won't sidetrack you into giving me a science lesson. I am reading about the differences in additive and subtractive color. Thanks for leading me to the water though ;)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: noxnoctis on October 19, 2010, 01:12:53 PM
Hey, I just have a quick question about soldering the 10W; specifically, the RGBA.
I've done a pretty good amount of research and my only issue now is actually soldering the thing - the solder sticks to the pads, but not well enough, it seems a little pressure and the solder will unstick, thus making it slightly difficult to solder. I know that the solder pads are shallow and I likely need a better iron, but that's the problem, and not the solution. So, my question is, is there something I can use to help with the adhesive for the solder, or, what would be a recommended iron that works well enough so the solder sticks?
I've read through most of the thread, but not all of it, so I apologize if this is a repeat question.

-Nòx`
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: JANGO FETT on October 19, 2010, 01:18:52 PM
Heat the pad up on the underside of the Led with the iron for 30 seconds.

Works like a charm for me, Credit to Fenderbender
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Caine on October 19, 2010, 01:23:39 PM
Heat the pad up on the underside of the Led with the iron for 30 seconds.

Works like a charm for me, Credit to Fenderbender

Good advice. One of the leads popping off one of those 10W pads is what what fried the Luxeon driver in my C.F. 4.31  >:(
It's fixed now, thank God (and erv'!)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Luis Rojas on October 27, 2010, 08:51:46 AM
Hi guys: I have a 10W RGBA ledengine and I want to make a nice purple (something near to the mighty OSPP). My plan is to wire blue and red in parallel and resistor the red. I will put pictures of my research and I will use a potentiometer like Luminara suggested to get the purple shade the way I wanted. I've read that some guys use 3.3 ohm resistor or something around that value but I think only the tests will tell me the right value. I'm planing to use a 4.0 Crystal Focus Board to drive the led at 1.5 amp (max value for that board) and use a power xtender with a 1ohm resistor to power the green for the clash /flash. This will go into a Mara Jade hilt that I design. The control box will have all the controls (ON/OFF, Aux Switch) and two accent leds (green and amber) I promise I will put pictures soon and a link in this thread (maybe this weekend)
Any suggestion or comments are welcome
Thanks and see you soon. ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on October 27, 2010, 09:40:58 AM
Luis, the RGBA with V4 works great with the red and blue wired in series and the settings at around 1.2A.  It seems to produce a nice violet shade on its own, without having to go the parallel route. 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on October 27, 2010, 11:54:01 PM
Luminara is it brighter that way than if it was the "parallel route"? And is the hue more towards the bluish or the reddish shades of violet?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: noxnoctis on October 28, 2010, 05:32:37 AM
Heat the pad up on the underside of the Led with the iron for 30 seconds.

Works like a charm for me, Credit to Fenderbender

Thanks for the advice; and I'm sure it's sound advice, especially if it was originally coming from Fender. However, whether I'm just plain terrible with a soldering iron (entirely possible, though I feel it's rather improbable), or what have you, it hasn't helped since the night you gave the advice. I tried a few variations of heating the pad before and after soldering, and so on, but to no real avail. Only one pad (positive red, I think) seems to have truly taken the solder, and I'm not entirely sure why the others won't. D: It's frustrating and I'm moments short of blowing my small workstation up along with my saber. Haha. :[
I have two LEDs, one that I've been messing with as it's the first time I'm working with these, and a relatively fresh one. I tried the fresh one last night and it didn't work, either. All pads work, though, just the solder won't stick.

Any other suggestions are much appreciated; and again, previous help is also.

-Nòx`
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Xusia on October 28, 2010, 05:35:34 AM
You're not, by any chance, trying to solder while it is on the heatsink are you?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: noxnoctis on October 28, 2010, 06:16:30 AM
No, I'm not. The heatsink would do it's job, I'd imagine, preventing it from working.
:[
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on October 28, 2010, 06:23:20 AM
@ noxnoctis What Darth Xusia said.  Don't try to solder these LEDs while on the heatsink, it makes it infinitely more difficult if not impossible.  



@Onli-Won, yes it is much brighter in series because in parallel you can only get 1A max per LED (with V5, 750 ma with V4).  LEDEngins like current.

With the series set up, if I have 2A available with V5 or 1500ma for V4.

However, there is a big qualifier to all this.  A lot of people do not realize they get hamstrung by their battery solution.  Case in point, a regular 7.4 set up of 14500s.  You got some batteries rated at 850 ma (which really are more like 650 on the Trustfires & Ultrafires) but they only have a 1.3 C discharge rate.  That means we can only pull a total of around 1100 ma.  So the most we can give the LEDs is 1.1A :-\.  Not wonderful, but OK for the series set up.  With the parallel, cut that in half to 550ma and you are seriously underdriving the dice and are going to have poor results.  With the AW 14500s you've got 1.5C which will give you more like 1300 ma and with the new AW 14500 LIMN batteries while they start at 650 ma they have up to an 8A discharge rate so they can handle either set up with finesse (and the right wiring, this is an ADVANCED battery/wiring set up).  

If you use 2 18650s all is right with the world :D.


Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on October 28, 2010, 06:24:52 AM
No, I'm not. The heatsink would do it's job, I'd imagine, preventing it from working.
:[

Hmmm...If you are not using a heatsink, and you are preheating from underneath then I would suspect either you have a lower heat soldering iron (15w?), a dirty solder tip, or are using leadfree solder.  Do any of these ring a bell?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: noxnoctis on October 28, 2010, 06:36:00 AM
No, I'm not. The heatsink would do it's job, I'd imagine, preventing it from working.
:[

Hmmm...If you are not using a heatsink, and you are preheating from underneath then I would suspect either you have a lower heat soldering iron (15w?), a dirty solder tip, or are using leadfree solder.  Do any of these ring a bell?

25w Iron, lead-free solder, and my solder tip isn't exactly brand new, but it's not in bad condition.
Should I be making a trip to my local radioshack before reporting back? :]

-Nòx`
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on October 28, 2010, 06:49:53 AM
A clean tip is important when working with small electronics.  The 25W soldering iron should be sufficient.  Make sure you don't buy or use the leadfree solder at RadioShack cat# 64-090 (it just doesn't flow as well), we use either 64-035 or 64-013.

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Sunrider on October 28, 2010, 07:57:32 AM
 Get frying pan. Put it on the stove on medium low. Let it warm up with or without heat sink. Don't burn your arms.  :D  With rosin core solder & clean tip it should be easy.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on October 28, 2010, 08:03:27 AM
Well, to each his own, I suppose.  I am not going to put a $30 LED on the stove ;). 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Sunrider on October 28, 2010, 11:29:37 AM
 See reflow skillet.

http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/tutorial_info.php?tutorials_id=59#Skillet

 Just warms things up a little for easy soldering.

 Cheapest, easiest method. Ive done big, small, cheap & expensive stuff.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on October 28, 2010, 12:45:38 PM
Nice tutorial.  Still, not sure I'd want to give that kind of heat to an LED, especially  an LED that costs $30, especially when it really is not necessary, we are only talking about 4 pads not 40 :).  It is a great idea for PCBs and other components though.  Thanks for the tip :D.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Luis Rojas on January 18, 2011, 05:45:12 AM


However, there is a big qualifier to all this.  A lot of people do not realize they get hamstrung by their battery solution.  Case in point, a regular 7.4 set up of 14500s.  You got some batteries rated at 850 ma (which really are more like 650 on the Trustfires & Ultrafires) but they only have a 1.3 C discharge rate.  That means we can only pull a total of around 1100 ma.  So the most we can give the LEDs is 1.1A :-\.  Not wonderful, but OK for the series set up.  With the parallel, cut that in half to 550ma and you are seriously underdriving the dice and are going to have poor results.  With the AW 14500s you've got 1.5C which will give you more like 1300 ma and with the new AW 14500 LIMN batteries while they start at 650 ma they have up to an 8A discharge rate so they can handle either set up with finesse (and the right wiring, this is an ADVANCED battery/wiring set up).  

If you use 2 18650s all is right with the world :D.



You mention something about AW batteries and its high discharge rate. You also talk about 18650 but I'm a little confused:

Does AW batteries need a separate PCB circuit for protection?
Where can I get those?
Does the regular Li-Ion charger work with them?
The 18650's you are talking about are the Trustfire/Ultrafire ones?
What are their discharge rate and their capacity (mah)?

Thanks again Master Luminara...I know I can rely on you ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Skottsaber on January 18, 2011, 05:54:50 AM
Just saw this thread pop up, and want to say I agree with Sunrider.
Master Luminara, if you look at the datasheets for Ledengin LEDs (I used the Deep Red 10w for reference), you will see a page called Reflow Soldering Profile (pg. 7 in the one I am looking at), and you will see that it is very safe to heat them up in a reflow environment, and eliminates the kind of local heat build up on a pad that normal soldering provides, which if you don't have experience, can cause the soldermask to melt and possible lift the pad.

But to each their own ;)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on January 18, 2011, 06:57:39 AM


However, there is a big qualifier to all this.  A lot of people do not realize they get hamstrung by their battery solution.  Case in point, a regular 7.4 set up of 14500s.  You got some batteries rated at 850 ma (which really are more like 650 on the Trustfires & Ultrafires) but they only have a 1.3 C discharge rate.  That means we can only pull a total of around 1100 ma.  So the most we can give the LEDs is 1.1A :-\.  Not wonderful, but OK for the series set up.  With the parallel, cut that in half to 550ma and you are seriously underdriving the dice and are going to have poor results.  With the AW 14500s you've got 1.5C which will give you more like 1300 ma and with the new AW 14500 LIMN batteries while they start at 650 ma they have up to an 8A discharge rate so they can handle either set up with finesse (and the right wiring, this is an ADVANCED battery/wiring set up).  

If you use 2 18650s all is right with the world :D.



You mention something about AW batteries and its high discharge rate. You also talk about 18650 but I'm a little confused:

Does AW batteries need a separate PCB circuit for protection?
Where can I get those?
Does the regular Li-Ion charger work with them?
The 18650's you are talking about are the Trustfire/Ultrafire ones?
What are their discharge rate and their capacity (mah)?

Thanks again Master Luminara...I know I can rely on you ;D

Like most LiIon batteries, AWs come in both protected and unprotected versions.  You can use either but, if you opt for the unprotected, you will need to also get a protection PCB.  Purists will tell you that if you are making a battery pack you should get the unprotected batteries and the PCB and make it yourself.  In practice, we all solder the protected batteries into packs regularly and it works just fine. 

Max Continuous Discharge rate on the Ultrafire/Trustfire 18650s is +-1.5C
Max Continuous Discharge rate on the AW 18650s is +-2.6C

The AWs also perform at their stated mah whereas in testing the Trustfires/Ultrafires perform anyplace from 20%-30% below stated values. 

The discharge rate is important in FoC applications because when the FoC is drawing that extra spike of power from the batteries, cells with lower discharge rates can pop the PCB protection.  It is annoying to have your saber shut off every time you try to clash it ;D.  However, this is a more prevalent problem with the 14500s where the current is already significantly lower.

Just saw this thread pop up, and want to say I agree with Sunrider.
Master Luminara, if you look at the datasheets for Ledengin LEDs (I used the Deep Red 10w for reference), you will see a page called Reflow Soldering Profile (pg. 7 in the one I am looking at), and you will see that it is very safe to heat them up in a reflow environment, and eliminates the kind of local heat build up on a pad that normal soldering provides, which if you don't have experience, can cause the soldermask to melt and possible lift the pad.
But to each their own ;)

Again, to each his own, which is what I said.  Most DIYers do not have a reflow kit, the method that Sunrider was suggesting is the "frying pan" method. 

I'd rather stick to my trusty soldering iron.  I can solder a LEDEngin in seconds.  Why the heck would I go through the trouble to heat up the oven (or the frying pan in Sunrider's example) for something that normally takes me under 10 seconds?  Now, for adding components to PCBs, reflow is the way to go :).
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Padawan23 on May 23, 2011, 08:14:55 AM
I am posting this question here since it is indeed a ledengin 10w im refering to and im dierctly asking about luminara's post above mine. Im in the process of soldering wires to a 10w RGBW, you say u can do it in 10 seconds, i was trying to solder the first point for about an hour to no avail.

Could you give me some tips please? I have tinned the wire, tinned the iron tip (even tried two different iron tips), used a 20w iron, 25w iron and 30w iron. But the solder will not stick at all to the led pad, how do you do it? At one point it stuck lightly but i sneezed while holding the star (honestly, no lie) and the wire fell off  ???

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Ducos Rossis on May 23, 2011, 08:28:14 AM
I am posting this question here since it is indeed a ledengin 10w im refering to and im dierctly asking about luminara's post above mine. Im in the process of soldering wires to a 10w RGBW, you say u can do it in 10 seconds, i was trying to solder the first point for about an hour to no avail.

Could you give me some tips please? I have tinned the wire, tinned the iron tip (even tried two different iron tips), used a 20w iron, 25w iron and 30w iron. But the solder will not stick at all to the led pad, how do you do it? At one point it stuck lightly but i sneezed while holding the star (honestly, no lie) and the wire fell off  ???



i use a 40w iron with no issues. you may also want to try maybe a thinner gauge wire. I think most people over compensate when it comes to wire size.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Padawan23 on May 23, 2011, 08:37:34 AM
Came back from hardware store today and was told by the vender that lead solder has been banned?!?!?!, i cant believe it, i'll try turning my adjustable iron up tonight to try out.

The wire im using is, not really wire, its more like a solid wire if that makes sense, that could be one problem and i couldn't tin the led pad, the solder just kept following the iron! Which made me almost turn to the dark side Anakin style!
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on May 23, 2011, 08:47:31 AM
Are you trying to solder to the LED while it is on a heatsink?  If so, it will never work :D.

The 30W is probably the only one you mentioned that is really adequate for the job.  The trick is to put the LED in the alligator clips on your helping hands (usually clipped between two pads). 

Like so:

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi136.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq169%2FAJFenderBender%2FVV%2520R%2520and%2520D%2FStarkiller%2520Build%2520Log%2FOptics%2520Module%2520and%2520LED%2Fth_025.jpg&hash=b9c9a1f2facabf119e19e414ed1084d9942f9cfc) (http://s136.photobucket.com/albums/q169/AJFenderBender/VV%20R%20and%20D/Starkiller%20Build%20Log/Optics%20Module%20and%20LED/?action=view&current=025.jpg)

Take the shaft of the iron (not tip) and warm the underside of the LED for a few seconds first.  Make sure your iron is hot and the tip is clean.  Then tin the tip of the iron with a bit of solder, touch it to the pad, as soon as you see the solder transfer from the iron to the pad add more solder.

Rinse and repeat :D.  (Don't really rinse Dano :D)

As far as your recent post, you need to go to RadioShack and get the correct solder, not hardware store solder http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062725 .  You also need to get stranded hook up wire, preferably 26 or 28 gauge (they don't sell it at RS, I think the smallest they have is 22 >:().

The right tools for the job ;).
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Skottsaber on May 23, 2011, 08:52:34 AM
Came back from hardware store today and was told by the vender that lead solder has been banned?!?!?!, i cant believe it, i'll try turning my adjustable iron up tonight to try out.

Don't worry, it's just the darn communist European Union thinking that lead gets into the drinking water by the electronics chucked in landfills. Lead solder is still widely available (except in Europe). If you ever see a term "RoHS compliant" it means it has no lead in it.

Rinse and repeat  :D. (Don't really rinse Dano :D)
;D ROFL
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Ducos Rossis on May 23, 2011, 08:53:40 AM
Came back from hardware store today and was told by the vender that lead solder has been banned?!?!?!, i cant believe it, i'll try turning my adjustable iron up tonight to try out.

The wire im using is, not really wire, its more like a solid wire if that makes sense, that could be one problem and i couldn't tin the led pad, the solder just kept following the iron! Which made me almost turn to the dark side Anakin style!

yea solid core wire is not good for our applications that is most likely your problem try like 26AWG stranded wire, i NEVER use solid core wire its too thick and doesnt flow as well and its not easy to cram into a hilt. the way i was taught was think of wire as a highway with lots of cars driving in one direction now what would be better one HUGE lane or a hundred lanes. the more lanes would be better to get everybody there smoothly.
Are you trying to solder to the LED while it is on a heatsink?  If so, it will never work :D.

The 30W is probably the only one you mentioned that is really adequate for the job.  The trick is to put the LED in the alligator clips on your helping hands (usually clipped between two pads). 

Like so:

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi136.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq169%2FAJFenderBender%2FVV%2520R%2520and%2520D%2FStarkiller%2520Build%2520Log%2FOptics%2520Module%2520and%2520LED%2Fth_025.jpg&hash=b9c9a1f2facabf119e19e414ed1084d9942f9cfc) (http://s136.photobucket.com/albums/q169/AJFenderBender/VV%20R%20and%20D/Starkiller%20Build%20Log/Optics%20Module%20and%20LED/?action=view&current=025.jpg)

Take the shaft of the iron (not tip) and warm the underside of the LED for a few seconds first.  Make sure your iron is hot and the tip is clean.  Then tin the tip of the iron with a bit of solder, touch it to the pad, as soon as you see the solder transfer from the iron to the pad add more solder.

Rinse and repeat :D.  (Don't really rinse Dano :D)

As far as your recent post, you need to go to RadioShack and get the correct solder, not hardware store solder http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062725 .  You also need to get stranded hook up wire, preferably 26 or 28 gauge (they don't sell it at RS, I think the smallest they have is 22 >:().

The right tools for the job ;).

listen to Luminara you should!!

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Padawan23 on May 23, 2011, 09:23:44 AM
Indeed i shall listen, ok, 30w iron, clean tip, heat led bottom, change wire to 26 gauge, use helping hands and try to get lead solder. Will give it a go again tonight! If it doesnt go at all i'll import some lead solder (if its legal)  :)

Is it ok to rinse my led in tap water or do i have to use distilled mineral?  Lol ok just joking on that one.

I bet luke skywalker or any other jedi for that matter never had this problem  :D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Ducos Rossis on May 23, 2011, 09:34:14 AM
Indeed i shall listen, ok, 30w iron, clean tip, heat led bottom, change wire to 26 gauge, use helping hands and try to get lead solder. Will give it a go again tonight! If it doesnt go at all i'll import some lead solder (if its legal)  :)

Is it ok to rinse my led in tap water or do i have to use distilled mineral?  Lol ok just joking on that one.

I bet luke skywalker or any other jedi for that matter never had this problem  :D

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062717&filterName=Category (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062717&filterName=Category) thats the solder i use and it works great, "This special rosin core solder is ideal for surface mount devices. It has a 62/36/2% tin/lead/silver formula with a .022" diameter. 1.5 oz. spool." it has lead in it.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Padawan23 on May 23, 2011, 10:07:04 AM
Thanks Ducos! Have favourited that link, may have to get 5 coils of it for future.

Guys you never guess what i just found in my old tool box, a Drapers flux core coil of solder! Checked online and it says its 60% tin 40% lead! I feel like i just won the lottery! Although it is from about 10 years ago before i left the country then came back, do they have a shelf life? If not then i just won won the lottery  ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Galaam Rendik on July 22, 2011, 03:05:13 PM
Hey everyone,

Sorry to necropost, it's been a looooong discussion before you guys got here and I have to admit I gave up reading it 'til the end at page 10.
So please forgive me if this has already been answered.
I'd like to build up a purple saber and learned a lot reading this thread.
I think I'll go with a LedEngin 10W RGBW (R+B as main LED and G+W as FoC) / CF 4.3 / 7.4V Li-ion pack.

First of: do you think the regular heatsink from TCSS is enough for that application?

Second: the wiring.
I've heard here and there that the 2 dices for the main LED can be ran in series. What de you think about that?
Does it allow to tune the color? Is it better to run them in parallel with a resistor on the red die (using Allaera's pot method) to achieve a good purple color?

What about the CoF? I know that a Power xtender is needed but how to wire the 2 other dices? in series with a puck?

Just hope I'm clear enough.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Sunrider on July 22, 2011, 03:46:22 PM
 MHS heat sink is fine. Wire both die pairs in series for 1500ma. No the colors will not be tunable in series. Use PE and a resistor, no puck. And make sure your pack will handle the 3+ amps at 7v.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Galaam Rendik on July 22, 2011, 04:31:43 PM
Thanks for the info, mate.

How do I know that the pack will handle the amperage?
Why a resistor rather than a buckpuck on the FoC?

BTW: Congrats with Praxis, this is some insanly-stuffed masterpiece.
You just killed me with this one. Any idea of how much this bad boy weigh?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Sunrider on July 22, 2011, 05:30:51 PM
Good battery sites have max current draw specs for the batteries. The FoC is just easier & more compact with a resistor.

& Thanks, Praxis weighs about 2 1/2 pounds.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on July 22, 2011, 06:42:40 PM
Pretty much what Sunrider said :D.  The resistor is all that is necessary for the FOC and you can control the current for the FOC by which resistor you choose ;).  A puck would not do that unless you use an adjustable driver, but why waste the money and, more importantly, the space?

As far as parallel wiring for the main blade, with CF it is not recommended whenever the two dice you are mixing have different vFs.  So, eg. red and blue, red and green, blue and amber, white and red, etc.  The reason (in laymen's terms) is that the power will go to the target which is easiest which, in this case, will be the die with the lowest vF (for purple that would be the red).  The result is that when you power the saber up, it will be red first then mix to purple, on blaster block, flicker, ramp and pulse you will see the break in color and not get a nice even mix.  Trust me, it might sound cool, but it isn't :-\.  It just looks like a poorly mixed unstable result.  Series wiring is best in this situation.  However when mixing colors where the vF is similar like cyan (green and blue) or red-orange (red and amber) this effect is barely noticeable because the vFs are so similar.  Hopefully, we might see some color mixing options included on V6, but for V5 and anything prior (or any other high-end/mid-end boards on the market), series for purple ;).
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: m4rco on July 23, 2011, 02:29:13 AM
Hey followed this thread and its awesome! Just have a quick and short question, because Im looking for a nice green for a luke/yoda saber so:

What about (all green): ledengin 5w vs lux V vs P4 vs Luxeon Rebel Star which one would be the winer?!?!

Thanks in advance,

Marco :)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Aur-Elion on July 23, 2011, 02:44:00 AM
Hi m4rco,

that depends on your soundboard or LED driver and batteries.
Not to forget your desired shade of green.

Lux V needs more power than a FX board could deliver, ledengin 5w would be underpowered by the same board.

P4 or Rebel are good allrounders, but the green of a P4 is more a minty shade.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Galaam Rendik on July 23, 2011, 03:07:42 AM
Thanks for your help Allaera, your explanation was very clear.


Quote
The resistor is all that is necessary for the FOC and you can control the current for the FOC by which resistor you choose Wink.  A puck would not do that unless you use an adjustable driver

That makes sense, after all a FoC lasts only a bit of a second, so a resistor is more than enough to limit the current. Still, I don't understand why you say that a buckpuck wouldn't control the current unless I use a driver. I thought that a buckpuck delivers the same current whatever voltage the source is giving.


Quote
As far as parallel wiring for the main blade, with CF it is not recommended whenever the two dice you are mixing have different vFs.  So, eg. red and blue, red and green, blue and amber, white and red, etc.  The reason (in laymen's terms) is that the power will go to the target which is easiest which, in this case, will be the die with the lowest vF (for purple that would be the red).  The result is that when you power the saber up, it will be red first then mix to purple, on blaster block, flicker, ramp and pulse you will see the break in color and not get a nice even mix.  Trust me, it might sound cool, but it isn't Undecided.  It just looks like a poorly mixed unstable result.  Series wiring is best in this situation.  However when mixing colors where the vF is similar like cyan (green and blue) or red-orange (red and amber) this effect is barely noticeable because the vFs are so similar.  Hopefully, we might see some color mixing options included on V6, but for V5 and anything prior (or any other high-end/mid-end boards on the market), series for purple Wink.

Just after my first reply, I also found this out myself in another thread.
Beside the unstable color problem you pointed out, It seems to me that the CF 4.3 main output is also limited in current (1.5A IIRC).
So anyway, no // wiring...
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: m4rco on July 23, 2011, 03:20:24 AM
@ Aur-Elion: Thanks for the quick reply!!!

I meant like (perfect setup):

3watt range: Rebel star vs P4
5watt range: Ledengin 5w vs Lux V

Overall winner would be one of the 5w range leds right?
(I like a deeper green and heard P4 is more minty...)

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Aur-Elion on July 23, 2011, 03:31:09 AM
@ Aur-Elion: Thanks for the quick reply!!!

I meant like (perfect setup):

3watt range: Rebel star vs P4
5watt range: Ledengin 5w vs Lux V

Overall winner would be one of the 5w range leds right?
(I like a deeper green and heard P4 is more minty...)


So I would recommend the Rebel for 3W and Ledengin for 5W.

Differences are depending on your setup, but don´t expect too much.
There are many parameters which could affect the overall result.
Blade type and length, used type and amount of diffusor, blade tip, batteries (NiMH or LI), board/driver, lenses or optics in general.

You can get better results with a perfect setup for a 3W, compared to a bad setup for a 5W.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on July 23, 2011, 04:07:53 AM
The puck would only give a specific output.  So, if I used a 700 ma puck I will get only that.  What if I want 450ma?  What if I have really good 18650 AWs and want 1200 ma? :o  A resistor allows you to calculate the exact output you want.  Keep in mind, as you mentioned, FOC is very short duration.  To use a $15 puck which, IMHO is limiting, when I can just decide exactly what I want and use a 15 cent resistor seems a bit silly :D.

Re. minty P4s....once again, "it depends™".  I have had beautiful deep P4s.  I've also had some yellowish rebels.  Everyone has their own favorites.  I loved the LUX III greens for their gorgeous shade but the P4s were brighter.  In my experience (for the most part), the brighter you go, the less "deep" the color.  This is true of every color.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: m4rco on July 23, 2011, 04:24:56 AM
ok but since ledengin 5w has about the same electrical needs as a 3w rebel in the end a 5w ledengin is the way to go for either green or blue blade right?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: forcejunkie530 on July 23, 2011, 05:48:56 AM
If you go to the first page of this thread, and just scroll down...you will get ALL of your answers with the Green brightness between A LOT of diffrant LED's
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Gil Gamesh on July 23, 2011, 06:09:22 AM
If you go to the first page of this thread, and just scroll down...you will get ALL of your answers with the Green brightness between A LOT of diffrant LED's

 ;)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Jedi Fry on August 04, 2011, 04:14:24 PM
I have a saber that I just purchased from a reputable saber smith. After less than an hour of total run time, the wires that were soldered to the led disconnected from both the positive and negative contact pads on the led board. When I contacted them about this I was told that the led in the saber was a LedEngin 5W Led and that it was a common and well documented problem with this type of led because the led is very difficult to solder. Has anyone had this problem? I have searched but have not found any complaints about this led on two saber related forums and and a general google search. So far I have only found one post that said it was more difficult to solder since the pads were not pre tinned and the waffer was thinner compared to other LEDs. I have been told by the saber smith that I should have them replace the led with a Seoul P4. Is the LedEngin 5W Led really that prone to failure due to it's difficulty to hold a soldered wire? This saber is new and has not yet been used in dueling so no jolts have been issued to it. I've posed these questions to the saber smith as well but no reply yet.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: PhoenixJedi on August 04, 2011, 04:20:24 PM
No, its not. If you use a higher quality soldering iron to solder it, it is as SOLID as a P4. Believe it or not the P4s actually have historically had this issue too.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Sunrider on August 04, 2011, 06:40:45 PM
 You must solder wires when the star is NOT mounted to a heat sink.  ;)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on August 04, 2011, 06:44:17 PM
It is more difficult to wire, yes.  Especially for those unfamiliar with them.  However, once properly wired they are as durable as any other LED.

As far as the P4, it is probably the easiest LED on the planet to solder :D so, sure, it is an easy replacement.  It really depends on which LED you want and, what is driving the LED.  The LEDEngin 5W is potentially brighter, but only if it is properly driven. 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: PhoenixJedi on August 04, 2011, 07:22:09 PM
It is more difficult to wire, yes.  Especially for those unfamiliar with them.  However, once properly wired they are as durable as any other LED.

As far as the P4, it is probably the easiest LED on the planet to solder :D so, sure, it is an easy replacement.  It really depends on which LED you want and, what is driving the LED.  The LEDEngin 5W is potentially brighter, but only if it is properly driven. 

You sure Lumi? the only LED i ever had trouble with in that manner was a P4 blue..
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: darth_call on August 04, 2011, 07:27:54 PM
you musta got one QC overlooked, I've used P4s more than any other LED combined, (blue for all them Obi conversions, and all Red bladed hilts) and never had an issue with soldering them. The only issue I saw was the red can be tempermental if it grounds out on the heatsink.

I used a few green ones, ....just never cared for the hue, Bin 1 LUXIII FTW
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on August 04, 2011, 07:47:07 PM
I am sure that P4s are the world's easiest LEDs to solder, yep :D.  Like VADER said, you must have had an unusual one.  Luxes were fairly easy too, but the P4s are really really made for the novice.  They are awesomely easy to solder.

The LEDEngins, as I said, are a bit more difficult but once you get the hang of them are really no problem.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Wong Yoon Wei on August 04, 2011, 09:58:43 PM
Despite Rebel Star notorious reputation, I actually find it easier to solder than p4.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on August 04, 2011, 10:11:27 PM
To each his own ;).  The rebels aren't too bad either.  The thing about the P4s is that they are pretinned with a very generous amount of a nice soft solder that melts immediately when you touch your iron to it.  Hard to imagine anything easier than that :D.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: PhoenixJedi on August 04, 2011, 11:54:53 PM
Oh wait, right, the one i was working on was a K2. The p4 blue was later!
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: ARKM on August 15, 2011, 11:47:25 PM
So I was on mouser.com today and felt a disturbance in the force.  It would appear that they are discontinuing most of the independently (and some of the serially) connected LEDEngin 10W LEDs.  They are stating that the supplier is no longer making them and has not yet offered a replacement.  A lot of the colors (especially for the independently connected PCBs), are completely gone with more on the way out.  All of the RGBx LEDS are being discontinued as well.

I hope this is just a business issue between mouser.com and LEDEngin but it does not appear that way.  If anyone has any more info on this issue, please, share it with the community.  If the LEDEngin 10w LEDs are indeed being discontinued with no announced replacement, now might be the time to purchase some... before they're all gone.

EDIT:  mouser.com and newark.com are the two distributers for LEDEngin 10W LEDs that are listed on the LEDEngin website.  The same situation exists over at Newark.com.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Aur-Elion on August 16, 2011, 12:43:18 AM
Farnell has them too.
Only RGBA discontinued, but still available as PCB version.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: PhoenixJedi on August 16, 2011, 02:28:31 AM
They're reworking them and re-releasing them with different domes and wiring.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Skottsaber on August 16, 2011, 03:15:38 AM
Yeah, that's what I heard too. I'd expect them to be back sometime soon.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: vulcan fox on August 16, 2011, 03:27:14 AM
i hope so because ive not brought a single 10 watt LED of any colour .....
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on August 16, 2011, 04:40:56 AM
Many of the new stock numbers are already posted.  You just need to have strong search fu ;) :D.  I already have ordered and received the new GGGG, the new RGGB, and the new RGBA ;).
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: ANAKIN SKYWALKER on August 16, 2011, 09:15:50 AM
it is the same led right?  Just a new stock number?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Kalizon on August 16, 2011, 09:43:01 AM
LUMINARA

    Did they maybe fix the PCB for easier soldering?   I wonder if that was the change that they found the pads were coming off and needed a replacement.

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: ARKM on August 16, 2011, 10:37:07 AM
Ah, cool.  Thanks everyone.  Good to know they were reworked and replaced.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: PhoenixJedi on August 16, 2011, 02:02:06 PM
Many of the new stock numbers are already posted.  You just need to have strong search fu ;) :D.  I already have ordered and received the new GGGG, the new RGGB, and the new RGBA ;).

Any difference in the actual product? or is it identical?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on August 16, 2011, 03:39:27 PM
@Kalizon They did not change the pads.  There is nothing wrong with the pads.  The reason why the LEDEngins are more difficult to solder is that the star they use is a superior heatsink compared to other LEDs we are used to.  It is simply doing its job.  If you run your soldering iron across the bottom of the star briefly before you pre-tin the pads, it is quite easy ;).

@PhoenixJedi  I have not wired one yet, but the dice themselves appear slightly larger under the dome.  The dome is the same size.  Not sure what that means though.  I had heard that they were using some sort of ceramic component for the element (I can't recall exactly what I read so I'd have to dig that up and no time right now).  I don't know if that is why the dice appear slightly larger or not. 

When I get one wired, I'd be happy to let you all know if there are any other obvious differences.  The website was recently revamped and I am assuming the datasheets currently on the site are for the new product line as the stock numbers match the stock numbers of the new mouser product.  From what I can tell of the data sheets, the specs are the same as I remember the old ones being.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Simpi-Gon Sims on August 17, 2011, 06:17:35 AM
Then, I need to practice my Search-Fu when I get back from work since I kind of need a 5W  Green.  ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: yell0w_lantern on August 17, 2011, 10:40:25 AM
Looking at the >.5W LEDs on Mouser, I restrict the search to LED Engin then filter for 10W, RGB, RGBA & RGBW and still none of the newer ones. It seems like if Mouser had them they should come up.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: IndustrialAction on August 17, 2011, 10:49:24 AM
Mouser has them. Bought two earlier today. Here's a 10W RGBA: http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=LZ4-20MA00virtualkey62410000virtualkey897-LZ420MA00
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on August 17, 2011, 11:41:55 AM
Your search-fu needs work folks.  They are there ;).
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: PhoenixJedi on August 17, 2011, 12:16:28 PM
If you look under teh discontinued ones..... they have links to the new ones.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: yell0w_lantern on August 17, 2011, 12:21:54 PM
Your search-fu needs work folks.  They are there ;).
Oh, I got to them using the part numbers from LEDEngin's site but the fact remains, those serach filters should be bringing up the LEDs anyway. I fail to see how Mouser not listing the LEDs properly is anyone's deficiency but Mouser's.  ???
[EDIT]
The Following are part numbers for LEDs on stars:
10W Multi-Color
LZ4-20MD00   RGBW - 4 channel
LZ4-20MA00    RGBA -  4 channel
LZ4-20MC00    RGGB - 4 channel

5 Watt Single Color
LZ1-10B200     Blue
          R100     Red
          R200     Deep Red
          R300     Far Red
          G100     Green
          A100     Amber
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on August 17, 2011, 03:31:42 PM
They really aren't that hard to find ;).

I already have received several of the new multi-color LEDs that I ordered last week.  New stock numbers have been being added over the last several weeks.  They are in a transition period as they clear out the old skus and start selling the new ones.  

Those solid color SKUs you listed are 5W.  The solid color 10Ws are not yet available apparently >:(.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: yell0w_lantern on August 18, 2011, 05:30:29 AM
Those solid color SKUs you listed are 5W.  The solid color 10Ws are not yet available apparently >:(.

Good point; I'll modify the post to reflect that those are 5W. I just wasn't thinking.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on August 18, 2011, 06:01:49 AM
No worries :D.   I have my contact at LEDEngin exploring why Mouser doesn't have the 10W 4-channel on PCB in their inventory (the do have the emitters, but not on stars).  If I find out anything useful, I will post it here.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: ANAKIN SKYWALKER on August 22, 2011, 08:06:29 PM
just ordered a 10w rggb on a pcb star.  They are there, you just have to let other people search for you and post the link for you ^^^.  or you could search around yourself. 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on August 22, 2011, 09:45:11 PM
We know the multi-coloreds are there.  It is the 10W 4-channel single color on pcb that they do not have ;).
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: ANAKIN SKYWALKER on August 22, 2011, 09:47:16 PM
I know, I was poking fun of the above posts.  I couldn't believe how cheap they are now. 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: yell0w_lantern on August 25, 2011, 01:44:17 PM
I'm quite please with the new price myself.  It makes my yellow Obi-wan more afforbale; not to mention my plan of making a MHS homage to the old yellow The Force lightsaber. http://theswca.com/images-toys/misc/theforcesaber.html (http://theswca.com/images-toys/misc/theforcesaber.html)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: nartules on August 25, 2011, 03:03:03 PM
I had one of those as a kid, Mine was red...dang I miss that toy :(
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Sethski on August 25, 2011, 03:41:02 PM
The Following are part numbers for LEDs on stars:
10W Multi-Color
LZ4-20MD00   RGBW - 4 channel
LZ4-20MA00    RGBA -  4 channel
LZ4-20MC00    RGGB - 4 channel

Thanks, that's really handy, it bought them up on Mouser UK too when I couldn't find them searching before. Nice that they seem cheaper with the new ones - £10.94 ain't so bad ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: ANAKIN SKYWALKER on August 28, 2011, 01:31:23 PM
just got a new rggb.  The two green dice are in opposite corners of each other.  Not sure if it was like that on the old one. 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: PhoenixJedi on August 30, 2011, 02:37:44 AM
We know the multi-coloreds are there.  It is the 10W 4-channel single color on pcb that they do not have ;).

I have a 10W 4 channel single color deep red coming....
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on September 21, 2011, 11:19:49 AM
Hey guys,

We were doing some testing for a customer who wants the Viridian from the KOTOR videogames.  We mixed the green and white from a 10W RGBW.  Results are sweet ;D.

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi136.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq169%2FAJFenderBender%2FVV%2520R%2520and%2520D%2FColor%2520Mixing%2Fth_006.jpg&hash=7008b7fcbe359ca405bc2b9d994a1806a5d9d733) (http://s136.photobucket.com/albums/q169/AJFenderBender/VV%20R%20and%20D/Color%20Mixing/?action=view&current=006.jpg)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Protosaber on September 21, 2011, 11:56:37 AM
That looks pretty on target for the TOR trailers themselves.
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FKKXHm.jpg&hash=8b410d759b9c2a21ca13fc6211b5e117940351dd) (http://i.imgur.com/KKXHm.jpg)

Edit* clicky
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: GENERAL GRIEVOUS on September 21, 2011, 11:57:32 AM
just got a new rggb.  The two green dice are in opposite corners of each other.  Not sure if it was like that on the old one. 

yes.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on September 21, 2011, 01:38:38 PM
Hey guys,

We were doing some testing for a customer who wants the Viridian from the KOTOR videogames.  We mixed the green and white from a 10W RGBW.  Results are sweet ;D.

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi136.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq169%2FAJFenderBender%2FVV%2520R%2520and%2520D%2FColor%2520Mixing%2Fth_006.jpg&hash=7008b7fcbe359ca405bc2b9d994a1806a5d9d733) (http://s136.photobucket.com/albums/q169/AJFenderBender/VV%20R%20and%20D/Color%20Mixing/?action=view&current=006.jpg)

 :o  :o  :o OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH so SWEET indeed! Even though its not 64/130/109 RGB that is definitely the "silvery green" colour KOTOR describes as 'viridian' and waaaaaay better than any filtered 'viridian'.

The best KOTOR Viridian I've seen yet.  8)  8)  8) Once again Vader's Vault ROCKS!  ;D

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Protosaber on September 21, 2011, 02:31:07 PM
Quote
We were doing some testing for a customer who wants the Viridian from the KOTOR videogames.  We mixed the green and white from a 10W RGBW.  Results are sweet

Quote
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH so SWEET indeed! Even though its not 64/130/109 RGB that is definitely the "silvery green" colour KOTOR describes as 'viridian' and waaaaaay better than any filtered 'viridian'.

I really do think Vader Vault has struck Viridian here.  Nice work!
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: GreyJedi on September 21, 2011, 02:32:32 PM
Hey guys,

We were doing some testing for a customer who wants the Viridian from the KOTOR videogames.  We mixed the green and white from a 10W RGBW.  Results are sweet ;D.

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi136.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq169%2FAJFenderBender%2FVV%2520R%2520and%2520D%2FColor%2520Mixing%2Fth_006.jpg&hash=7008b7fcbe359ca405bc2b9d994a1806a5d9d733) (http://s136.photobucket.com/albums/q169/AJFenderBender/VV%20R%20and%20D/Color%20Mixing/?action=view&current=006.jpg)

Might I suggest calling it V4? (Vader's Vault Vivacious Viridian)  ;D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on September 21, 2011, 02:34:40 PM
LOL!  Vivacious Viridian ;D.  We'll see :P.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: psycho_ro on September 23, 2011, 06:31:36 AM
Oh man, that is the exact colour I was hoping I'd get when my ledengin arrives. How have you wired it? Is it done in series or parallel?
Heehee I'm so excited now!
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on September 26, 2011, 10:14:07 AM
I think VV searched for the right combination with a Pot to figure out the precise color.
Congratulations VV, cause that really looks awesome.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: psycho_ro on September 27, 2011, 02:30:11 AM
Ahh, I guess it's time for me to go find a pot and some resistors then!
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: PhoenixJedi on September 27, 2011, 04:51:35 AM
Ahh, I guess it's time for me to go find a pot and some resistors then!

Thats the spirit! This hobby wouldn't exist if it wasnt for experimentation!
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Matth on September 27, 2011, 06:42:39 AM
Or VV have used the Igniter soundboard, cause it sems you can create the color by chanching numbers in the files, when using a LED with differend die colors.
May we know the secret?  ;)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: STARKILLER on September 27, 2011, 09:14:43 AM
Nope, that pic was a LEDengin RGBW with the G and W wired together. The soundboard powering it in that pic was a CF V5 ;)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: psycho_ro on September 29, 2011, 05:39:19 AM
Well my board arrived today so I might be able to have a play with it tonight hehe.
I'll post a couple of pics when I'm done.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: m4rco on October 14, 2011, 08:33:48 AM
2 green at 1A brighter than 1 green at 1250? Difference between series and parallel?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: ANAKIN SKYWALKER on October 24, 2011, 08:22:46 AM
Alright, so i decided to give the sky blue color a shot and i am having trouble giving the green die the proper amount of resistance.  Right now it is a bit too dim, but not bad.  Has anyone done a sky blue from a green and blue die?  If so, what resistor did YOU use.  I am going to stop at radioshack and get a potentiometer tonight, but if i had a roundabout value to start from i migt be able to do it all in one trip. 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on October 24, 2011, 08:31:05 AM
Try full power in series.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: ANAKIN SKYWALKER on October 24, 2011, 08:33:31 AM
Really?  That seemed too simple, but i'll give it a shot. 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: ANAKIN SKYWALKER on October 25, 2011, 06:15:53 AM
worked like a charm luminara... I'll put up videos this weekend when my new blades get here.  I'll do a g//g @2A with R for a yellow FoC and a gb//rg for a sky blue (no idea how it compares to a bin 1 cyan as I have never seen one in person) and yellowish-white FoC. 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on October 25, 2011, 07:02:50 AM
When we did the GB in series it was bluer than a bin 1, more like a Sky blue.  A bin 1 is bluish but still has that visible green influence.  The Sky Blue is really more like a Sky Blue, hence why we called it Sky Blue :D. 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: ANAKIN SKYWALKER on October 25, 2011, 08:59:07 AM
Yeah, that pretty much sums it up...  Looks amazing in person.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Obi_Dar on October 25, 2011, 06:59:32 PM
I'll throw my 2 cents in here, just for kicks.  I was playing with a 10W RGBW a while ago, and this is what I got.  I don't have my CF wired up yet, so for the purpose of experimenting, I was running the blue and green in series from a 1A buckpuck.

This is the blue by itself.
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi238.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff102%2Fdar4jc%2F10WRGBW%2Fth_blue.jpg&hash=e19d233a0329cdfaabf1067670f57ef41c99b797) (http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/dar4jc/10WRGBW/blue.jpg)

This is the B+G.
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi238.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff102%2Fdar4jc%2F10WRGBW%2Fth_9991.jpg&hash=3a35235129d9503361d67f4fb503b35b81c11cac) (http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/dar4jc/10WRGBW/9991.jpg)

To confirm what has already been said, this is bluer than the bin 1 cyan.  The picture is a pretty close representation of what it looks like in reality.  If anyone wants, I could possibly do a side-by-side comparison.

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on October 25, 2011, 07:40:37 PM
Thanks for posting those pics Obi-Dar ;D.  If you feel up to it, a side-by-side would be great.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Obi_Dar on October 25, 2011, 10:28:28 PM
OK.  I'm off tomorrow, so I'll see what I can do.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: JANGO FETT on October 26, 2011, 06:41:39 AM
Here's a 10w comparison
Top Corran Horn  Silver   Blue+White
Middle Shining Knight    Cool White
Bottom Graflex  Blue

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi20.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb219%2FNailbunny375%2FCorran%2520Horn%2F100_7591.jpg&hash=6be4c49c2aa2a15847cb03bc992a2110d2c9e3e8) (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b219/Nailbunny375/Corran%20Horn/100_7591.jpg)

I can set up the same with a BG, and a GW, later tonight.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: JANGO FETT on October 26, 2011, 06:59:58 PM
From the top
Cuprum BG
ESB Graflex BB
Corran Horn BW
Shinning Knight WW
Triton GW
Luke V2 GG

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi20.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb219%2FNailbunny375%2Fledengin%2520testing%2F100_8162.jpg&hash=f9eb128e1f638dbe0013f942d5139909744eb547) (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b219/Nailbunny375/ledengin%20testing/100_8162.jpg)

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi20.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb219%2FNailbunny375%2Fledengin%2520testing%2F100_8163.jpg&hash=b72f04f7b17c247b6f12297bfc0dfbc94912ce13) (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b219/Nailbunny375/ledengin%20testing/100_8163.jpg)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Simpi-Gon Sims on October 26, 2011, 07:04:10 PM
Thanks for sharing, Jango! Good to see a side-by-side-by-side-by-side-by-side-by-side!  :D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: psycho_ro on October 29, 2011, 03:37:02 PM
I figured I might as well post some pics too since I finally have something up and running (still need to build a chassis of some sort hehe).

Anyways here's my PC with green and white wired in series:
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1209.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc395%2Fpsycho_ro%2FLightsaber%2520Pics%2F2011-10-03200427.jpg&hash=4cf2917853b54090966ad0a0038e79f9044b1703)

It looked a little more white in parallel but not much difference really.

Oh, and since I've started a luke ANH build this is blue and green in series, which looks pretty perfect to me:
(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1209.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc395%2Fpsycho_ro%2FLightsaber%2520Pics%2F2011-10-03200548.jpg&hash=6b7f58227aa613b3ff512f90125661c21b4e8cd0)

Like it's been said before it's definitely more blue than cyan but a very nice colour in my opinion.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Sandpeople are people too on October 29, 2011, 05:00:42 PM
I really like that blue/green- it has a ESB Hoth ice cave feel to it for me (which is one of the best lightsaber scenes, imo). 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: m4rco on October 31, 2011, 01:15:43 AM
cant wait to see the yellow clash alex :)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on November 02, 2011, 10:05:02 PM
Now that the PC v1.6 has FoC I'm guessing that the 10W may become the 'new standard' for sabers in the next year...why would anyone want to use anything else now eh?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Simpi-Gon Sims on November 03, 2011, 05:56:12 AM
Now that the PC v1.6 has FoC I'm guessing that the 10W may become the 'new standard' for sabers in the next year...why would anyone want to use anything else now eh?

Decent point. But remember, what makes this hobby so cool is the fact that not everyone likes the same thing. I know some people who don't like the different color FoC. So, they would still use a 10W, just not a multiple color one. There's still a market for the other LED's for anything thats not a PC of CF build too. You are correct though. I would imagine those sales will spike.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: ANAKIN SKYWALKER on November 05, 2011, 03:32:23 PM
so, is there a place that sells the RGGBs that takes paypal?  Kinda my only option right now and I need two of them. 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on November 05, 2011, 03:39:37 PM
I think TCSS will be stocking them sometime soon.  But you would have to wait to go that option.  Other than that, the only two US Distributors I know of are Mouser and Newark.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: ANAKIN SKYWALKER on November 05, 2011, 03:41:02 PM
well, the sabers I need them for will be in hand around the 15th and they need to be out the door quickly after that.  Maybe I'll just ask around here if anyone has any.   :-\
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: keeth on November 05, 2011, 03:48:03 PM
Well if you're in rush I suppose Mouser is good, I ordered 3 LED's from them and had them in my hand in Sweden less than 48 hours later. But yeah, they don't take Paypal
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on November 07, 2011, 12:42:22 AM
I think TCSS will be stocking them sometime soon.

That is great news and makes good sense with the PC 1.6 offering FoC now...maybe with TCSS making larger orders than we might individually that will make LEDEngin take notice of us and offer...certain colour combinations...that would be particularly desirable for our needs eh?  ;)  ;)  ;)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Skottsaber on November 07, 2011, 01:39:05 AM
Like RGBB.... oh one can hope  ::)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: STARKILLER on November 07, 2011, 04:59:18 AM
We have discussed custom configurations with LEDengin, and they are open to working with us on it but it is a minimum of 500 pieces per configuration. The configuration that makes the most sense to get at that point seems to be the RRBB. Red and blue are currently the only 2 colors that don't have a contrasting FoC colors. Also, this allows for a Full Powah purple ;D this is still a HUGE investment, so we're not sure how to make it happen.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: White.haired.one90 on November 07, 2011, 05:55:54 AM
 *Whistles* Minimum 500 is quite a bit... Anyone interested on FX sabers could all put in for a giant order.. but it would be difficult to coordinate..
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on November 07, 2011, 06:18:50 AM
No group orders are allowed on FX-SABERs ;).
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: White.haired.one90 on November 07, 2011, 06:34:56 AM
 :-X Sorry
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: vulcan fox on November 07, 2011, 09:33:10 AM
what about pre orders then... i w ould certainly take 2.... so who's up for the other 498.? ;)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on November 07, 2011, 09:37:42 AM
No there are no preorders here either ;).

The best solution at this time is for Tim to have them made.  He would have to decide if it is worth the risk.  500 is a lot of one type to try to sell and, with this hobby evolving so quickly, there could be something new right around the corner.  You never know.  I hope he (or someone) decides to do it, it would be awesome.  But whoever makes the investment would have to feel they could sell them all :-\.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Drazhar on November 07, 2011, 09:46:26 AM
No there are no preorders here either ;).

The best solution at this time is for Tim to have them made.  He would have to decide if it is worth the risk.  500 is a lot of one type to try to sell and, with this hobby evolving so quickly, there could be something new right around the corner.  You never know.  I hope he (or someone) decides to do it, it would be awesome.  But whoever makes the investment would have to feel they could sell them all :-\.


So that's about ~15,000-17,000 of LEDs, guess the person who made the order would use at least two-five for themselves...

that means they would only need assurance for *numbercrunch*

14,750-16,750 in LEDs!

right?
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on November 07, 2011, 09:54:26 AM
I don't know what the exact cost is, but those numbers could very well be accurate :-\.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Drazhar on November 07, 2011, 10:11:38 AM
I was basing on a 30-35ish cost per LED, just giving a ballpark figure so everyone who reads the thread knows what kind of numbers you guys are actually looking at.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on November 07, 2011, 10:33:38 AM
Yipes! I guess we shouldnt get our hopes up too high eh?  :-\ Well it was just a thought...even if TCSS carries 'standard 10W RGBW/RGBA for use with the FoC PC I'm sure many of us who've wish-listed and hoped for TCSS to add an RGB option will be grateful. PC 1.6 with FoC is really a great opportunity for many of us 'F5 challenged'/unlucky CF lottery "losers" to join in with these 10W LEDEngin LEDs also and up our game.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: fragrax on November 24, 2011, 05:40:46 AM
I want to ask a question regarding the 10W RGGB. If one has a CF and wants to use the 2 Gs for the main blade, is it better to wire the two dice in parallel at 2A or in series at 1.5A to optimally drive the LED? I'd be using a 7.4V battery pack made of 2 li-ion 18650s. I ask because I've seen people on the forum use both setups and I wanted to see if someone had used them both and could explain the pros/cons of the 2 solutions.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: ANAKIN SKYWALKER on November 24, 2011, 05:55:41 AM
pros of the 1.5A in series :

Easier to wire and neater wiring, especially with FoC™ setups

Longer runtime

Slightly more vivid shade of green (less toward minty green and more toward ROTJ green)

LED doesn't get as hot (from my own experience)



Cons of the 1.5A in series: 

You are somewhat underdriving the voltage (2 greens need 8.4v, but since voltage follows current to an extent, it isn't that bad)

Not as bright

You cut the life of your LED in half by doubling the amps (wired in series, current requirements stay the same and voltage doubles.  However, since each die only takes 750ma, and you are giving it 1500ma, you are way overdriving the current.   The Led can handle it, but it is still a con)



Pros of the 2A in // setup:

Much brighter than the 1.5A series setup

Each die is perfectly driven (wired in //, current doubles and voltage stays the same.  Each die needs 750ma and 4.2v, so you are giving it 1000ma and 4.2v each with a 7.2v pack).

Mixes much better for a yellow shade in FoC™ setups (from my own experience)



Cons of the 2A in // setup:

Less runtime

Necessity of a stronger battery pack when using FoC™ setups

LED gets slightly hotter (from my own experience)

More complex wiring, especially with FoC™ setups










Think I did an okay job there.  anyone feel free to add something that I may have missed.  I use the 2A in // whenever possible.  There really is no comparison, it is brighter than 1.5A series any day of the week.   8)


Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Aus_Jedi_Killer on November 24, 2011, 06:00:43 AM
In a wholesale order like that, Mouser has the 10w ledegin rggb for $20.95usd for 1x. 200x is $17.69 so let's say for 500x units the cost price would realistically be $15usd per unit.
500x units at $15usd per unit comes out at $7500usd. That's a decent chunk of change from any point of view. With over 6000 members that's right around $1.25usd each member to get that order placed.
Looking at it as $1.25usd per member to get the order done it's small potatoes however getting 6000 members to each part with $1.25usd isn't lol.
So say 500 members each put $15usd into the pot. Call it $20usd. This guarantees them 1x rrbb 10w ledengin led shipped to them anywhere in the world.
I could imagine 500 members wanting to spend $20 each to secure a 10w rrbb ledengin led shipped to their door :)
Then there's the issue of payments. Payments couldn't be made willy nilly until there were 500 spoken for. Could take forever. The only way (imo) it could be done would be to start an expression of interest/lock it in Eddie thread.
When 500 expressions of interest/500 leds are spoken for, 1 week for all payments to be sent and the order is put in and paid for. Order is sent to one centralized and trusted member of the community and distributed from there.
I could see that working. Or not. Just the late night ramblings of a young fella who is up past his bedtime :)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Dak-Tari on November 24, 2011, 06:08:41 AM
Well...
It took ERV like 12 hours to sell 75-100 CF's.  The folks interested in the New Igniter need 10w LEDEngins too.

500 doesn't seem like too much.

IF TCSS had 100 (RGBWs) right now, they probably wouldn't last to Christmas....  I need 7.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: fragrax on November 24, 2011, 06:14:33 AM
Thanks Alex! Now I can make a more informed decision  :)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: The_Night on November 24, 2011, 06:24:16 AM
ok, still trying to understand how the 10 watts work exactly.
so you can run one die of them off the board well enough. you can effectively run 2 off a pex. but i stll don't get how one would run all 4 dies effectively. say i wanted to do a blue saber running all 4 dies, how do i do that? each die can take 3.6v @ 1500 mah. using a 7.4v battery pack and a pex to run one die i would need a 6.1 watt 2.7 ohm resistor. do i just do that and run them all parallell off the pex?

maybe i should just stick to 3 and 5 watts. lol, much easier
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: fragrax on November 24, 2011, 07:10:43 AM
ok, still trying to understand how the 10 watts work exactly.
so you can run one die of them off the board well enough. you can effectively run 2 off a pex. but i stll don't get how one would run all 4 dies effectively. say i wanted to do a blue saber running all 4 dies, how do i do that? each die can take 3.6v @ 1500 mah. using a 7.4v battery pack and a pex to run one die i would need a 6.1 watt 2.7 ohm resistor. do i just do that and run them all parallell off the pex?

maybe i should just stick to 3 and 5 watts. lol, much easier

It's my understanding that you would connect 2 dies in series to the current regulated output of the board and the other 2 in series connected to the battery pack through the Power Extender circuit using an appropriate resistor and the Luxeon mirror pad as control signal for the PeX.
I guess that it would still be somewhat underdriven with this setup..
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Sunrider on November 24, 2011, 08:59:05 AM
 OK. People have asked soooo many times about series/ parallel setups hopefully this will clarify things.

 Here is a diagram of the circuit.

(https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1182.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx450%2Fmscottparr%2Fseripara10w.gif&hash=c5634e9a29f9af967e4281e3a21eb0a14ab2876b)


Things to keep in mind.

 Two of the lower voltage needy leds (red, amber), in series (in line) need about 5.5 volts to be driven properly (1 amp). No problem for a 7.4v pack.

Two of the higher voltage needy leds (blue, green, white) in series (in line) need about 7.4 volts to be driven properly (1 amp). Problem for 7.4v pack.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on November 24, 2011, 09:49:56 PM
On the other hand, voltage follows current.  So, if you have good batteries, the 7.4V pack in series can be OK even with the greens and blues.  It depends on the voltage bin of the particular LED you are using.  The problem is that there is no way to tell, currently :-\. 

For example, our last RGGB had high binned greens and in series they were not bright at all.  Even weirder, the two greens themselves seemed to be separate bins, not evenly matched :'(.  The parallel set up was necessary for that LED. 

Other times we have used the two greens in series and they have been super bright because they are lower binned.

Currently, we are using a parallel set up on the greens and blues the majority of the time. 
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Kirith on December 05, 2011, 05:42:16 AM

Hi everyone,

First thing first, I salute everyone here since you are trully experts in many ways on how to build a lightsaber.
I was happy the day I managed to build one myself, but that was before wiring leds in series, parallel, buckpucks, Ledengins, CF, and many things I don't get now.
The best I did was build a P4 run directly from 4AAA batts. Pretty bright I must say. No idea of which amperage is that.

Now I have a short film in pre-production and I'd like to have the brightest stunt there is. I'd like to apologize to Erv and Goodman, since I asked them the same thing, but didn't get entirely their answers. My english is lame and I don't get all the info.

I have two lightsabers to build for the film.
One is a Mara Jade-ish MHS wich it should be blue. Don't mind wich kind of blue since I will rotoscope them later, but there are some close shots and I'd like them to make light to the actor's face. I have room enough here for the batts and buckpuck.
The other is a Larbel Obi-Wan wich it should be red. I machined the inside and I just have a 1" ID and 4.5" lenght to hold the electronics.

I'd like them to be the brightest stunt I can get, but many of your configurations here include CF o soundboards, so I get lost, plus my english-fu is lame, as I said. I don't get the series/parallel also.

If just anyone could tell me the best configuration with 10W LEdengins for both stunts, I could build it myself, but I'm lost with so many different configurations.

I thank you all again, and let me apologize one more time for my unknowledge and again to Erv and Goodman, I know they want to help me. I read this thread and many more over and over , and over, and I don't get it.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on December 05, 2011, 06:09:49 AM
There are several ways to do it.  If you can fit 2 18650s that would be preferable.  For the red set up, no brainer, two series pairs in parallel with either a 1000 ma buck puck on each pair or two of the TCSS constant current drivers, here: http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/Adjustable-LED-driver-P497.aspx

With the blue, I would use a 11.1V battery pack, maybe 3 14670s in a triangle pack?  Then use the same set up above, but only with the driver, not the puck.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Kirith on December 05, 2011, 09:47:55 AM

I trully thank your help Luminara.
I know your answer is there, but I just don't see it. I will read again another dozen of times and I guess I will understand it.
Don't worry, it's my fault. I know you have given me my answer.

Thanks again everyone!
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Simpi-Gon Sims on December 05, 2011, 12:51:29 PM
The 10W LEDengins have 4 separate color dies on them, each have it's own (+) and (-) pad. For the red, LUMINARA is saying to wire 2 of the red dies together (series; like joining the 2 dies by a "chain") and power that pair by a single 1000mA Buckpuck. You will do this same setup for the other 2 red dies. So, you will have 2 buckpucks powering all 4 dies on your red LEDengin. If you have space, this should be very, very nice.

For the blue, you will use a similar setup, but not with buckpucks. You will use the constant current driver from thecustomsabershop.com. You will also need to use some more battery power (11.1v as LUMINARA said). 

When shes says "18650's" and "14670's" she is referring to the batteries.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Kirith on December 05, 2011, 06:10:12 PM

That is exactly what I didn't get, two pucks for two batt sets. I thought so, but I read it nowhere, or I didn't get it between the lines.
At last I get it.
Thanks again everyone for speaking "noobie" to me, you gave me the light.

From now on I will learn as much as I can, thanks everyone one more time!!
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on December 05, 2011, 06:43:02 PM
No, not two pucks for two battery sets :-[, two pucks for two "sets" of dice.  The LEDEngin has 4 dice.  You wire 2 "dice" together and have one puck or driver controlling them and the other two dice wired together controlled by the other puck.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Kirith on December 06, 2011, 02:10:31 AM

Ah ok, this I got, I just thought each puck should go to a different batt set. All clear now. I guess  ::)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Merana33 on December 21, 2011, 07:29:29 AM
I've got a quick question for everyone: What gauge wire do you tend to use when wiring a LedEngin 10W?

Right now I'm wiring a RGBW and I'm using 28g ribbon cable since I'm running each die individually from my board. I'm planning on using the W channel for the FoC feature, since its not involved in the color mixing. My main fear is that 28g is too small for the current, but I'll freely admit that this is really the first time I've dealt with wire this small. (30g wire wrap not withstanding)

My plan is to run things off a 7.2v 18650 pack, but I'm still waiting on a backorder and I'm trying to get as much of the rest of the build done as I can.

On a related note, do people usually use a larger wire gauge from their battery pack to their main board given the larger discharge rates that these batteries have? While I'm not about to try to cram 10g wire into a hilt, I'm pretty sure that if I push the max discharge of a 18650 pack through teeny tiny wire that there might be thermal issues.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Gil Gamesh on December 21, 2011, 07:47:07 AM
26 to 28gauge for the main LED is what I use, 28 or 30 for switches  ;)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on December 21, 2011, 07:48:37 AM
We normally use the 28 gauge wire Erv' sources as we have never found anything comparable.  Ribbon cable is more fragile, so I would not recommend it for battery packs.  I get some 26 gauge wire from All-Electronics that is excellent all purpose wire and can be used for battery packs while still being supple and slender enough for the high end soundcards.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Merana33 on December 21, 2011, 08:45:56 AM
We normally use the 28 gauge wire Erv' sources as we have never found anything comparable.  Ribbon cable is more fragile, so I would not recommend it for battery packs.  I get some 26 gauge wire from All-Electronics that is excellent all purpose wire and can be used for battery packs while still being supple and slender enough for the high end soundcards.
Talk about a speedy reply! *chuckles*

That's pretty much what I had suspected, but I wanted a second opinion. 28g is pretty bendy stuff and is fine for most of the voltage/current that's in a hilt. But I agree that 26g wire is probably safer for a battery wire since it's rated for 2.2A for chassis wiring (vs 28g which is rated at 1.4A).

I'll have to rummage through my electronics bin and see if I've got any 26g wire floating around...
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Sunrider on December 21, 2011, 09:31:27 AM
 I use stranded high temp Teflon coated wire. I use 30 gauge for 2 amps or lower, 26 gauge for 2 to 5 amps, and 22 gauge for 5 to 10 amps. Wire lengths are never more than 4 or 5 inches though. Length is a big factor when deciding what to use.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Merana33 on January 03, 2012, 11:18:23 AM
For the record: Jeebus these stars are hard to solder...
I managed to tin the pads, but getting wires onto them sure isn't easy.
And before anyone points out the obvious, no I didn't mount it to the heatsink and yes I'm heating the board from behind prior to soldering.

I've been using a battery powered iron or a butane powered one for years, ever since I accidentally pulled a corded one off a table with my chair by mistake. It looks like investing in another may be in the cards.  :P
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on January 03, 2012, 11:20:49 AM
They can be more difficult than some of the other LEDs we are used to, yes ;).

Your iron needs to be hot, and you need to use a silver bearing leaded solder for best results.  A battery operated soldering iron is unlikely to be adequate for the type of needs we have in this hobby.

Yes, you do need to heat them from behind.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Simpi-Gon Sims on January 04, 2012, 07:20:18 AM
I've found that the battery-powered irons are too "fickle" for our purposes. I'd recommend investing!  :D
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Merana33 on January 10, 2012, 06:14:08 AM
Yup, that plug-in Iron did the trick nicely. Being able to dial up to 50w gets the board up to temp in a hurry it seems.  :D

I did run into an issue however, it seems that my LED deviates from the datasheet in a rather odd way: The white and blue dies are swapped!  ???
Bizarre, but easy enough to work around. I don't think I misread the datasheet, but it wouldn't be the first time.

And, of course, despite knowing better I tried to look at the LED to see which of the four dies was lighting up when I was testing it.  :P
Even running off two AA batteries direct that sucker's bright as sith. I'd say that's a mistake you only make once, but I know I did it to myself a few times in the process of troubleshooting out the die swap.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: knobe on January 27, 2012, 04:03:46 AM
Hi friends, I'm new here and I have a design of a light saber using a CF V5, LEDengin 10W using effect FoC. Yesterday I received my batteries: UltraFire BRC 18650 3600mAh 3.7V Li-ion. I'm on the right track? But as I'm an amateur  I have some doubts. Thanks.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Sunrider on January 27, 2012, 07:00:13 AM
 This will get you started learning abut Li ion packs. http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=29986.0
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: knobe on January 27, 2012, 09:24:41 AM
Thank you Sunrider. I will check.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Gil Gamesh on January 27, 2012, 09:30:49 AM
As a personal preference, I generally find it better to figure out the hilt you are wanting first, and then source the batteries.  You may want one of those big suckers (18650) but may find that the hilt may not accept it and the board and everything else.  2x 18650's are great, don't get me wrong (and 1 is perfect for some applications), but alot of hilt designs don't allow for them without modification or changes.  Plus, while you can run the CF or PC off a 3.7v Li-on solution, they definitely prefer the 7.4v packs.

2x 14670's are great IMO without being over the top large.

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: vulcan fox on January 27, 2012, 10:03:22 AM
i agree , the 14670s are a great allrouder as most hilts ive seen will accept these side by side at around 29mm.. at approximately 1100mha,  run times and draw rate would need to be considered for some solutions. ;)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Merana33 on January 27, 2012, 10:39:29 AM
I've been wrestling with my own 2x18650's for my current MHS build and the cram-fu required to get them to fit. I'm intimately familiar with the headaches involved with them.  :P

Here's some pack dimensions that I've come up with: (if anything these dimensions are on the smallish side, adjust upwards for clearance)
     You -can- fit this inside an MHS section, but it's tricky. Sunrider posted a method that seems to be one of the better options. A shroud is pretty much required for this. While it's possible to piggyback a soundboard on the batteries, it's tricky and is not for the faint of heart.

   Probably the better solution for most hilts, but it's going to soak up a -lot- of length. Pay close attention to how far your switches extend into your hilt or you might run into issues. Some form of chassis to keep the pack from shifting is practically required.

   This is the style I'm likely to end up going with for my build. It splits a stick style pack into the two cells and places them in different locations in the hilt. The downside is that you'll end up having to run larger gauge wire through the intermediate space to link the pack together. It also serves to distribute the weight evenly and balance the hilt somewhat.
[/list]

Logistically 14670's are probably the best size for 'ease of build', but it becomes a trade off on the 'runtime' when you're dealing with the higher wattage LedEngin LED's.

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Galaam Rendik on January 27, 2012, 11:11:05 AM
I would say that 18350s or 18500s are not bad also.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: knobe on January 27, 2012, 12:24:14 PM
Thank you friends for the informations, I am really very happy with the above descriptions. I have some ideas to implement. Perhaps the method of distribution of the batteries in hilt may serve me. I thought about it some time ago. I bought the LED under the guidance of Erv for best result for the FOC. Another question, I should always use the BCP as seen here: http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=29986.0.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Merana33 on January 27, 2012, 01:33:14 PM
Another question, I should always use the BCP as seen here: http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=29986.0.

If by BCP you mean the circuit board that's shown in several of the images in that thread then it depends on if your cells are 'protected' or not.. If they are, then they already have one of those boards build in. If they are not protected cells you're absolutely going to need one.
That board is what ensures that the Li-Ion/Li-poly cells dont discharge too far, and makes sure they're balanced properly when charged. Both very important things! Without one you can run the risk of ending up with a dead cell, or maybe having one overheat and rupture (read: explode  :o ). Not something you'd want to have happen inside something you're holding.

Azmaria Dei does a pretty good job of describing how to wire the Protection Circuit Board into a battery pack setup, so I wont duplicate that here.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Onli-Won Kanomi on January 27, 2012, 06:46:46 PM
FYI there is a new lens holder option for LEDengin LEDs @ TCSS tonight:

http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/LEDengine-Lens-Holder-P673.aspx

Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: knobe on January 28, 2012, 05:44:15 AM
With this lens holder can use 5 or 8.7??  thanks Merana33 for information.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Simpi-Gon Sims on January 28, 2012, 07:09:24 AM
With this lens holder can use 5 or 8.7??  thanks Merana33 for information.

As far as I know, yes. I've used similar style holder's in the past.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: GENERAL GRIEVOUS on January 28, 2012, 11:39:10 AM
With this lens holder can use 5 or 8.7??  thanks Merana33 for information.

As far as I know, yes. I've used similar style holder's in the past.

Definitely yes. ;)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Zannah on July 27, 2012, 08:48:50 AM
Maybe a little off topic, but can anyone tell me a little about the Prolight RGB LED? how bright it is in the chart? Does it have FOC at all? Or overall, how good is it? cheers.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on July 27, 2012, 10:18:00 AM
It depends on which prolight.  If it is the 3W it is fairly bright, but nowhere near as bright as a LEDEngin or Tri-Rebel fully driven.  FoCâ„¢ is a function of a board, not an LED.  Any multidie LED can theoretically produce FoCâ„¢ as long as the dice are individually addressable.   For example, you could wire the R & B for purple ( ;D) and the green for the FoCâ„¢.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Zannah on July 27, 2012, 10:46:51 AM
Thanks Luminara!  It is the 9W Prolight RGB..
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on July 27, 2012, 11:13:04 AM
To give you an idea the Prolight 9W RGB has 138 lumens total at 700ma vs. the LEDEngin 10W RGGB which has 395 lumens at 700ma ;).
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Zannah on July 27, 2012, 01:03:07 PM
hahaha...that means what? :-)   and what is the size of this LED? I heard its smaller than the Tri-rebel for example...i wanted to put a tri-rebel LED into a saber and the smith told me that it will not fit in the saber, only the Prolight 9W RGB.
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: GENERAL GRIEVOUS on July 27, 2012, 01:07:11 PM
hahaha...that means what? :-)   and what is the size of this LED? I heard its smaller than the Tri-rebel for example...i wanted to put a tri-rebel LED into a saber and the smith told me that it will not fit in the saber, only the Prolight 9W RGB.

The star base of both the Tri-rebel and the prolight 9W is 20mm (the same size) so either one will fit.  I think your information about what will "fit" may not be correct ;)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Zannah on July 27, 2012, 01:09:30 PM
and what is the other "size" that matters? :-)))))))))
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: LUMINARA UNDULI on July 27, 2012, 01:54:28 PM
Sounds like your smith is partial to prolights.  Not sure why as they are dimmer than other popular choices.  Tri-Rebels, LEDEngins, Tri-CREEs and Prolights all fit in most lightsabers ;).  Any of the other 3 choices are brighter than the Prolight.  Lumens mean that the LEDEngin is more than 3X as bright as the Prolight on paper ;).
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Darth Zannah on July 27, 2012, 02:00:13 PM
cool. thanks. So basicly they are the same size in every matter. I dont know why the smith says its the only LED would fit in the saber i might buy  from him. Will see. i might just order it with what he says and if i dont like it then i will change it. What about the P4 compare to the Prolight? :-)
Title: Re: LedEngin LEDs: 5W, 10W, and 15W Discussion
Post by: Simpi-Gon Sims on July 28, 2012, 05:32:07 AM
cool. thanks. So basicly they are the same size in every matter. I dont know why the smith says its the only LED would fit in the saber i might buy  from him. Will see. i might just order it with what he says and if i dont like it then i will change it. What about the P4 compare to the Prolight? :-)

The smith's info might be a little "off". As LUMINARA and the GENERAL stated, they are the same size and they will fit into most sabers without any kind of modification.

If your talking about a single color (blue, green, red, white), I like the p4's over a single die on a Prolight. Keep in mind that the single color p4's aren't capable of producing Flash on Clashâ„¢ since there is only 1 color die.

I guess the first thing to figure out is what color blade you want and/or whether or not you want Flash on Clashâ„¢. From there, we can help you choose an appropriate LED that will fit and also be nice and bright!  ;)