Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi

[WEDGE ANTILLES]

I've been saying for years, the Jedi Order caused the imbalance in the force. why? because they DON't follow the will of the force.
(watch TPM. it's stated explicitly. by qui-gon.. the guy who is rewarded with immortality, BECAUSE he follows the will of the force).  (this is not coincidence)

the "Jedi Order" was founded at the same time as the Galactic Senate -- from Day#1, the Order swore an oath, to uphold the Will of the People.
which means --> from Day #1 , the institution called "Jedi Order" has PREVENTED the individual "Knights" from following the will of the force -- as a matter of POLICY.
(watch TPM. it's stated explicitly. by qui-gon.. the guy who is rewarded with immortality, BECAUSE he follows the will of the force). (this is not coincidence)

 
Luke is CORRECT in this trailer : the "Jedi" must end , for there to be any kind of balance in the force.
the individual "force users" MUST be allowed to follow the will of the force again, (AND interpret it, for themselves), like they did, thousands of years ago.

ie:a jedi who uses the force, to enact the will of the force, brings balance to the force.
a jedi who "uses" the force, "against its will", brings IMbalance.

(and how do we know this..? 
how do we KNOW this is the "Key to Balance" ...?

well, I know it's unpopular to say, but watch TPM (LOL):
the qui-gon character is all about "will of the force" AND he's rewarded with Immortality by his own God -- this is the theme of the PT: separation of church and state --
the Jedi Order were causing IMbalance, BECAUSE they were following the "will of the senate", which was corrupt and dysfunctional and evil and ruled BY a freaking sith lord --
again, I know it's unpopular, but watch TPM -- watch those "Senate Scenes" (don't skip thru them) -- these scenes are required exposition which show the Senate to be DYSFUNCTIONAL).

--> problem : the Jedi Order has sworn an oath to uphold the Will Of This Dysfunctional Senate.

(the Jedi Order have sworn an oath to FORSAKE the will of the force (!) --- instead, they uphold the Will of the Senate, at all costs (?) --- even when the Senate is shown to be EVIL(!?))

 

--> at the time of TPM:  the JEdi Order PREVENTS the individual "Jedi Knights", from following the will of the force(*) <---- and THIS causes imbalance in the force.

(( watch TPM : pay attention to qui-gon's dealings with the Jedi Council, as they banter over 'will of the force' vs 'will of the Senate'; and remember, qui-gon IS correct here...
and HOW do we know he is correct? BECAUSE, in the end, he is rewarded with "immortality" by his god; while the Jedi Council are destroyed))

((this reveals qui-gon to be correct -- the key to balance is "follow the will of the force"))
 
 
 



-->> at the end of ROTJ , the Jedi Order is gone; the Sith are gone; the ONLY "force user" left in the game... is Luke:
and Luke has been taught a different lesson : "let go your conscious self" and "let the force guide your actions"

(aka: "follow the will of the force" -- this is qui-gon's Mantra Of Balance, in a nutshell).

-->> at the end of ROTJ, "separation of church and state" has brought a New Balance to the force -- the "Order" is destroyed -- the "Knight", is NOW free , to follow the will of the force again.

and what does this Knight do..? 

he starts a NEW Jedi Order..!?
which immediately spawns a NEW "sith" movement..!?
which stands poised, to take over the Government..!? All Over Again..!?  

"D'oh!!" [/homer simpson]






(*)  "the Jedi Must End".  absolutely.   it was anakin's job , to wipe out the jedi AND the sith.   (and Luke needs to get with the program).

in the PT , NOBODY was following the will of the force.. 
the Sith had their own agenda, and the Jedi were Chancellor Vallorum's Lapdogs..
they did whatever the Evil Senate TOLD them to do.. without question.

THIS caused a dangerous imbalance in the force.. 

and so, the Force Itself spawned a "defense mechanism", to protect itself against imbalance: it spawned the Chosen One.
(a powerful being , destined to "bring balance to the force").

the role of the chosen one, was to wipe out ANYTHING, which would prevent the individual force-users, from following the will of the force.
(the role of the Chosen One was to destroy the rigid "institutions" of the force ..(both jedi and sith).. who were BOTH "using the force against its will").

((note:  the Rise of the "Sith Order" coincides with the advent of the "Jedi Order", they are 2 sides of the same coin, BECAUSE, one spawned the other ---
this was the universe trying to maintain equilibrium, after the Jedi Order started forsaking the Will of the Force, and "using" the force against its will ---
these two "institutions" opposed each other in a state of quasi-equilibrium (NOT "balance", per se) for a thousand generations --- BECAUSE --- one spawned the other))


--->> after ROTJ , luke tried to rebuild the "Jedi Order". with no "Sith Order" to keep it in check.
it was inevitable , that THIS ACT would spawn a new Sith Order (aka: Knights of Ren).. this is EXACTLY what happened the first time: "one spawned the other".

((READ : by rebuilding the Jedi Order , Luke has unwittingly unleashed MORE IMBALANCE on the universe -- he has unleashed the Knights of Ren, c/w death. and suffereing. and misery -- and NOW: he feels responsible))

 



the ONLY way the force can be in balance -- is for the individual force users, to "follow the will of the force" again.. 

this was the role of the Chosen One -- to MAKE this possible again.

it was anakin's job , to wipe out the jedi AND the sith. (and Luke needs to get with the program).

"I only know ONE truth --- the JEdi Must End." <-- (this is true)    LOL

[anakin2000]

You're 100% right Wedge, I also figured thats really what Luke was talking about.. the seperation of "Sith" and "Jedi" is not the will of the force.
I do want to know though...
how long did that take you to type? 

[Greenie]

TLDR

You know it's just a movie?

[BEN KENOBI]

I wonder if Luke dies in this movie?

[darth hondo]

I wonder if Luke dies in this movie?

Don't think so. There will be a huge uproar. Hack, he's likely to survive Ep. 9 since depending on what they do with Rey, Luke may not even have to die to have a powerful story.

[Onli-Won Kanomi]

I've been saying for years, the Jedi Order caused the imbalance in the force. why? because they DON't follow the will of the force.
(watch TPM. it's stated explicitly. by qui-gon.. the guy who is rewarded with immortality, BECAUSE he follows the will of the force).  (this is not coincidence)

the "Jedi Order" was founded at the same time as the Galactic Senate -- from Day#1, the Order swore an oath, to uphold the Will of the People.
which means --> from Day #1 , the institution called "Jedi Order" has PREVENTED the individual "Knights" from following the will of the force -- as a matter of POLICY.
(watch TPM. it's stated explicitly. by qui-gon.. the guy who is rewarded with immortality, BECAUSE he follows the will of the force). (this is not coincidence)

 
Luke is CORRECT in this trailer : the "Jedi" must end , for there to be any kind of balance in the force.
the individual "force users" MUST be allowed to follow the will of the force again, (AND interpret it, for themselves), like they did, thousands of years ago.

ie:a jedi who uses the force, to enact the will of the force, brings balance to the force.
a jedi who "uses" the force, "against its will", brings IMbalance.

(and how do we know this..? 
how do we KNOW this is the "Key to Balance" ...?

well, I know it's unpopular to say, but watch TPM (LOL):
the qui-gon character is all about "will of the force" AND he's rewarded with Immortality by his own God -- this is the theme of the PT: separation of church and state --
the Jedi Order were causing IMbalance, BECAUSE they were following the "will of the senate", which was corrupt and dysfunctional and evil and ruled BY a freaking sith lord --
again, I know it's unpopular, but watch TPM -- watch those "Senate Scenes" (don't skip thru them) -- these scenes are required exposition which show the Senate to be DYSFUNCTIONAL).

--> problem : the Jedi Order has sworn an oath to uphold the Will Of This Dysfunctional Senate.

(the Jedi Order have sworn an oath to FORSAKE the will of the force (!) --- instead, they uphold the Will of the Senate, at all costs (?) --- even when the Senate is shown to be EVIL(!?))

 

--> at the time of TPM:  the JEdi Order PREVENTS the individual "Jedi Knights", from following the will of the force(*) <---- and THIS causes imbalance in the force.

(( watch TPM : pay attention to qui-gon's dealings with the Jedi Council, as they banter over 'will of the force' vs 'will of the Senate'; and remember, qui-gon IS correct here...
and HOW do we know he is correct? BECAUSE, in the end, he is rewarded with "immortality" by his god; while the Jedi Council are destroyed))

((this reveals qui-gon to be correct -- the key to balance is "follow the will of the force"))
 
 
 



-->> at the end of ROTJ , the Jedi Order is gone; the Sith are gone; the ONLY "force user" left in the game... is Luke:
and Luke has been taught a different lesson : "let go your conscious self" and "let the force guide your actions"

(aka: "follow the will of the force" -- this is qui-gon's Mantra Of Balance, in a nutshell).

-->> at the end of ROTJ, "separation of church and state" has brought a New Balance to the force -- the "Order" is destroyed -- the "Knight", is NOW free , to follow the will of the force again.

and what does this Knight do..? 

he starts a NEW Jedi Order..!?
which immediately spawns a NEW "sith" movement..!?
which stands poised, to take over the Government..!? All Over Again..!?  

"D'oh!!" [/homer simpson]






(*)  "the Jedi Must End".  absolutely.   it was anakin's job , to wipe out the jedi AND the sith.   (and Luke needs to get with the program).

in the PT , NOBODY was following the will of the force.. 
the Sith had their own agenda, and the Jedi were Chancellor Vallorum's Lapdogs..
they did whatever the Evil Senate TOLD them to do.. without question.

THIS caused a dangerous imbalance in the force.. 

and so, the Force Itself spawned a "defense mechanism", to protect itself against imbalance: it spawned the Chosen One.
(a powerful being , destined to "bring balance to the force").

the role of the chosen one, was to wipe out ANYTHING, which would prevent the individual force-users, from following the will of the force.
(the role of the Chosen One was to destroy the rigid "institutions" of the force ..(both jedi and sith).. who were BOTH "using the force against its will").

((note:  the Rise of the "Sith Order" coincides with the advent of the "Jedi Order", they are 2 sides of the same coin, BECAUSE, one spawned the other ---
this was the universe trying to maintain equilibrium, after the Jedi Order started forsaking the Will of the Force, and "using" the force against its will ---
these two "institutions" opposed each other in a state of quasi-equilibrium (NOT "balance", per se) for a thousand generations --- BECAUSE --- one spawned the other))


--->> after ROTJ , luke tried to rebuild the "Jedi Order". with no "Sith Order" to keep it in check.
it was inevitable , that THIS ACT would spawn a new Sith Order (aka: Knights of Ren).. this is EXACTLY what happened the first time: "one spawned the other".

((READ : by rebuilding the Jedi Order , Luke has unwittingly unleashed MORE IMBALANCE on the universe -- he has unleashed the Knights of Ren, c/w death. and suffereing. and misery -- and NOW: he feels responsible))

 



the ONLY way the force can be in balance -- is for the individual force users, to "follow the will of the force" again.. 

this was the role of the Chosen One -- to MAKE this possible again.

it was anakin's job , to wipe out the jedi AND the sith. (and Luke needs to get with the program).

"I only know ONE truth --- the JEdi Must End." <-- (this is true)    LOL

Wedge you know that I have generally agreed with that thesis before and I still do however I do not know if you watch and thus are aware or unaware that in a recent episode of Rebels, which is afterall official Canon [I have to admit it, as much as I dislike some of the other 'canon changes' since the Evil Mouse bought SW] OWK has clearly established that "the Chosen One" was LUKE NOT ANAKIN. 'Old Ben' confirmed it explicitly to Maul on Tatooine as Maul lay dying. Old Ben certainly would have known what we fans have long debated lol since he would have had ample opportunity to discuss it directly with the Force Ghost of QGJ during his training in Exile and it is unrealistic to imagine that he would not have harshly questioned QGJ about whether Anakin really was the Chosen One considering Anakin's Fall to Vader and Obi's part in it. Which only occurred because Obi followed QGJ's wish to insist against the will of the Council that Anakin be trained with the ultimately disastrous results of following his Master's lead on the matter. We might guess that QGJ admitted at some point to Ben that he had been wrong and Anakin was not the Chosen One afterall, and Ben would not have had reason to doubt QGJ who was afterall One with The Force, but whatever the exact nature of that conversation may have been it must have happened at some point over those 18 years, so Old Ben would have HAD to know FOR CERTAIN whether Luke was The Chosen One or not and Ben had ZERO reason to deceive dying Maul on the matter at that point [indeed his overreaction at the beginning of their battle makes sense only if Ben fully believed Luke WAS the Chosen One and therefore was near panicked by the thought of Luke falling into Maul's hands]. I think we can safely assume that if Ben believed it it was because QGJ believed it and if QGJ believed it then The Force believed Luke to be The Chosen One so imo that episode has 'settled' the question of which Skywalker was The Chosen One permanently.

However even if we accept Luke IS the Chosen One as Ben states then much of what you post remains valid. And it still remains reasonable to ask at what exact point Luke 'restores Balance' to the Force. AFAIK most fans who 'vote Luke' in that debate have generally assumed that if the Chosen One was Luke then the 'restoration of Balance' occurred during the finale of ROTJ...

...BUT...WHAT IF...

...instead the Restoration of Balance by 'Chosen One' Luke IS YET TO HAPPEN...

...in that case your own hypothesis actually would dovetail neatly in IF Luke has himself realized that as you describe his attempt to reestablish the Jedi Order has caused further Imbalance, causing the rise of the Knights Of Ren exactly as you state, and NOW [at the outset of Ep VIII TLJ] the only way for Luke to fulfill his confirmed by Old Ben in Rebels prophesied Destiny as the Chosen One to Restore Balance to the force is, exactly as he says in the trailer, to ensure that the Jedi MUST end. Thus removing the 'raison d'etre' for the Knights Of Ren to continue to exist and thereby allowing the Force to provide means [presumably in Ep IX] that the Knights Of Ren will ALSO 'End' - FINALLY restoring Balance to the Force in a Galaxy where neither 'Jedi' nor 'Sith' ORDERS will thereafter exist ONLY independent ['grey'?] Force users [Rey, Finn and or others?]FOLLOWING ONLY the Will Of The Force itself NOT 'politics' or DOGMA of their respective 'Orders'[ORGANIZED 'religions'].

Could the Sequel Trilogy be about the Liberation of the Force from the 'orders' of Jedi and Sith into a new Balance consisting of unaffiliated 'grey' Force-sensitives who finally obey ALL the Will Of The ENTIRE Force itself - not fighting interminable Star Wars for ONLY Light or Dark 'sides' depending on their imbalanced and unbalancing 'teams'? Could that be what the Force has 'awakened' to/for?

[Scruffy Nerf Herder]

its actually up for debate right now as to whether or not it was actually benicio del toro's character. im not sure myself but if it is mark, he doesnt sound the same saying that line as he does the earlier "breathe...what do you see?"

There is no debate, Mark Hamill himself stated at Celebration that Rian Johnson had him narrate the trailer.

[anakin2000]

I've been saying for years, the Jedi Order caused the imbalance in the force. why? because they DON't follow the will of the force.
(watch TPM. it's stated explicitly. by qui-gon.. the guy who is rewarded with immortality, BECAUSE he follows the will of the force).  (this is not coincidence)

the "Jedi Order" was founded at the same time as the Galactic Senate -- from Day#1, the Order swore an oath, to uphold the Will of the People.
which means --> from Day #1 , the institution called "Jedi Order" has PREVENTED the individual "Knights" from following the will of the force -- as a matter of POLICY.
(watch TPM. it's stated explicitly. by qui-gon.. the guy who is rewarded with immortality, BECAUSE he follows the will of the force). (this is not coincidence)

 
Luke is CORRECT in this trailer : the "Jedi" must end , for there to be any kind of balance in the force.
the individual "force users" MUST be allowed to follow the will of the force again, (AND interpret it, for themselves), like they did, thousands of years ago.

ie:a jedi who uses the force, to enact the will of the force, brings balance to the force.
a jedi who "uses" the force, "against its will", brings IMbalance.

(and how do we know this..? 
how do we KNOW this is the "Key to Balance" ...?

well, I know it's unpopular to say, but watch TPM (LOL):
the qui-gon character is all about "will of the force" AND he's rewarded with Immortality by his own God -- this is the theme of the PT: separation of church and state --
the Jedi Order were causing IMbalance, BECAUSE they were following the "will of the senate", which was corrupt and dysfunctional and evil and ruled BY a freaking sith lord --
again, I know it's unpopular, but watch TPM -- watch those "Senate Scenes" (don't skip thru them) -- these scenes are required exposition which show the Senate to be DYSFUNCTIONAL).

--> problem : the Jedi Order has sworn an oath to uphold the Will Of This Dysfunctional Senate.

(the Jedi Order have sworn an oath to FORSAKE the will of the force (!) --- instead, they uphold the Will of the Senate, at all costs (?) --- even when the Senate is shown to be EVIL(!?))

 

--> at the time of TPM:  the JEdi Order PREVENTS the individual "Jedi Knights", from following the will of the force(*) <---- and THIS causes imbalance in the force.

(( watch TPM : pay attention to qui-gon's dealings with the Jedi Council, as they banter over 'will of the force' vs 'will of the Senate'; and remember, qui-gon IS correct here...
and HOW do we know he is correct? BECAUSE, in the end, he is rewarded with "immortality" by his god; while the Jedi Council are destroyed))

((this reveals qui-gon to be correct -- the key to balance is "follow the will of the force"))
 
 
 



-->> at the end of ROTJ , the Jedi Order is gone; the Sith are gone; the ONLY "force user" left in the game... is Luke:
and Luke has been taught a different lesson : "let go your conscious self" and "let the force guide your actions"

(aka: "follow the will of the force" -- this is qui-gon's Mantra Of Balance, in a nutshell).

-->> at the end of ROTJ, "separation of church and state" has brought a New Balance to the force -- the "Order" is destroyed -- the "Knight", is NOW free , to follow the will of the force again.

and what does this Knight do..? 

he starts a NEW Jedi Order..!?
which immediately spawns a NEW "sith" movement..!?
which stands poised, to take over the Government..!? All Over Again..!?  

"D'oh!!" [/homer simpson]






(*)  "the Jedi Must End".  absolutely.   it was anakin's job , to wipe out the jedi AND the sith.   (and Luke needs to get with the program).

in the PT , NOBODY was following the will of the force.. 
the Sith had their own agenda, and the Jedi were Chancellor Vallorum's Lapdogs..
they did whatever the Evil Senate TOLD them to do.. without question.

THIS caused a dangerous imbalance in the force.. 

and so, the Force Itself spawned a "defense mechanism", to protect itself against imbalance: it spawned the Chosen One.
(a powerful being , destined to "bring balance to the force").

the role of the chosen one, was to wipe out ANYTHING, which would prevent the individual force-users, from following the will of the force.
(the role of the Chosen One was to destroy the rigid "institutions" of the force ..(both jedi and sith).. who were BOTH "using the force against its will").

((note:  the Rise of the "Sith Order" coincides with the advent of the "Jedi Order", they are 2 sides of the same coin, BECAUSE, one spawned the other ---
this was the universe trying to maintain equilibrium, after the Jedi Order started forsaking the Will of the Force, and "using" the force against its will ---
these two "institutions" opposed each other in a state of quasi-equilibrium (NOT "balance", per se) for a thousand generations --- BECAUSE --- one spawned the other))


--->> after ROTJ , luke tried to rebuild the "Jedi Order". with no "Sith Order" to keep it in check.
it was inevitable , that THIS ACT would spawn a new Sith Order (aka: Knights of Ren).. this is EXACTLY what happened the first time: "one spawned the other".

((READ : by rebuilding the Jedi Order , Luke has unwittingly unleashed MORE IMBALANCE on the universe -- he has unleashed the Knights of Ren, c/w death. and suffereing. and misery -- and NOW: he feels responsible))

 



the ONLY way the force can be in balance -- is for the individual force users, to "follow the will of the force" again.. 

this was the role of the Chosen One -- to MAKE this possible again.

it was anakin's job , to wipe out the jedi AND the sith. (and Luke needs to get with the program).

"I only know ONE truth --- the JEdi Must End." <-- (this is true)    LOL

Wedge you know that I have generally agreed with that thesis before and I still do however I do not know if you watch and thus are aware or unaware that in a recent episode of Rebels, which is afterall official Canon [I have to admit it, as much as I dislike some of the other 'canon changes' since the Evil Mouse bought SW] OWK has clearly established that "the Chosen One" was LUKE NOT ANAKIN. 'Old Ben' confirmed it explicitly to Maul on Tatooine as Maul lay dying. Old Ben certainly would have known what we fans have long debated lol since he would have had ample opportunity to discuss it directly with the Force Ghost of QGJ during his training in Exile and it is unrealistic to imagine that he would not have harshly questioned QGJ about whether Anakin really was the Chosen One considering Anakin's Fall to Vader and Obi's part in it. Which only occurred because Obi followed QGJ's wish to insist against the will of the Council that Anakin be trained with the ultimately disastrous results of following his Master's lead on the matter. We might guess that QGJ admitted at some point to Ben that he had been wrong and Anakin was not the Chosen One afterall, and Ben would not have had reason to doubt QGJ who was afterall One with The Force, but whatever the exact nature of that conversation may have been it must have happened at some point over those 18 years, so Old Ben would have HAD to know FOR CERTAIN whether Luke was The Chosen One or not and Ben had ZERO reason to deceive dying Maul on the matter at that point [indeed his overreaction at the beginning of their battle makes sense only if Ben fully believed Luke WAS the Chosen One and therefore was near panicked by the thought of Luke falling into Maul's hands]. I think we can safely assume that if Ben believed it it was because QGJ believed it and if QGJ believed it then The Force believed Luke to be The Chosen One so imo that episode has 'settled' the question of which Skywalker was The Chosen One permanently.

However even if we accept Luke IS the Chosen One as Ben states then much of what you post remains valid. And it still remains reasonable to ask at what exact point Luke 'restores Balance' to the Force. AFAIK most fans who 'vote Luke' in that debate have generally assumed that if the Chosen One was Luke then the 'restoration of Balance' occurred during the finale of ROTJ...

...BUT...WHAT IF...

...instead the Restoration of Balance by 'Chosen One' Luke IS YET TO HAPPEN...

...in that case your own hypothesis actually would dovetail neatly in IF Luke has himself realized that as you describe his attempt to reestablish the Jedi Order has caused further Imbalance, causing the rise of the Knights Of Ren exactly as you state, and NOW [at the outset of Ep VIII TLJ] the only way for Luke to fulfill his confirmed by Old Ben in Rebels prophesied Destiny as the Chosen One to Restore Balance to the force is, exactly as he says in the trailer, to ensure that the Jedi MUST end. Thus removing the 'raison d'etre' for the Knights Of Ren to continue to exist and thereby allowing the Force to provide means [presumably in Ep IX] that the Knights Of Ren will ALSO 'End' - FINALLY restoring Balance to the Force in a Galaxy where neither 'Jedi' nor 'Sith' ORDERS will thereafter exist ONLY independent ['grey'?] Force users [Rey, Finn and or others?]FOLLOWING ONLY the Will Of The Force itself NOT 'politics' or DOGMA of their respective 'Orders'[ORGANIZED 'religions'].

Could the Sequel Trilogy be about the Liberation of the Force from the 'orders' of Jedi and Sith into a new Balance consisting of unaffiliated 'grey' Force-sensitives who finally obey ALL the Will Of The ENTIRE Force itself - not fighting interminable Star Wars for ONLY Light or Dark 'sides' depending on their imbalanced and unbalancing 'teams'? Could that be what the Force has 'awakened' to/for?

wrong thread for me to make this argument, but since it was presented, anakin is the chosen one. its stated multiple times throughout the prequels and is completed at the end of ROTJ. Lucas himself said the story of Star Wars was about Anakin Skywalker. And frankly, opinion of the creator and actual films take precedent over a TV show that airs on Disney XD

[TrypWyr]

wrong thread for me to make this argument, but since it was presented, anakin is the chosen one. its stated multiple times throughout the prequels and is completed at the end of ROTJ. Lucas himself said the story of Star Wars was about Anakin Skywalker. And frankly, opinion of the creator and actual films take precedent over a TV show that airs on Disney XD

"A prophecy... that misread could have been."

I guess you could take the word of the handful of Jedi that mention the Chosen One, and not accept Yoda's opinion that they may be wrong in some way. You could interpret it that since Vader destroyed the Emperor (and himself), he destroyed the Sith and brought balance to the force.

You could also interpret it that Luke really was the Chosen One as Kanomi states above. If the Sith still exist (Snoke and Ren?), then perhaps the restoration of balance has still to occur?

In the end, the story is still being written and all theories are viable and could be true, "from a certain point of view." ;)

And a side note, I understand how people would want to discount "a TV show that airs on Disney XD". However, if the creators say it's canon and it's written under the same overall direction and supervision as the films, I don't think there's much choice in the matter...

[WEDGE ANTILLES]

the only way Disney could call it 'canon', was to redefine the concept of canon. LOL

ie : for 40 years, the definition was the same :  "[Stories by George]" are considered canon...   and "[Stories by -NOT- George]" were considered, 'not canon'.

ever since 1978 when Splinter of the Mind's Eye came out , this has ALWAYS been the definition of 'canon'.

it has ever been thus.   LOL

 



now suddenly, there's no more "stories by george" anymore.   

and there never will be, ever again.

--> according to the 40-year definition of canon, this means that everything Disney makes from now on, is technically defined as "EU". 

       *shrug*

(( according to the 40-year definition of "canon", Disney is releasing "stories by [not george]" --- just like "splinter of the mind's eye"))   

(( they have "rebooted" the entire EU and started over again (granted) , they are consciously RE-aligning it to the meet with the content of GL's saga (granted) -- note: this was sorely needed anyways, because the old EU had gone so far off-script, that ANY "Reboot" of the old EU would, by necessity, align itself with 'canon' all over again -- this was inevitable))

but the only way they can CALL this "canon" , is to REDEFINE the definition of the word 'canon'.  LOL 

(Like Goerge Orwell's Chocolate Ration) :P LOL



 


for me,

it's all about "context" -- I ALWAYS enjoyed the old EU.

but I enjoyed it in a different context, BECAUSE these were [stories by not-goerge].

-->  I did not take the ole EU seriously, and this gave me freedom to enjoy it, in a DIFFERENT WAY, than I enjoyed GL's movies

(read : If I took the "yuzzan vong" seriously , it would drive me mental -- it would rive me CRAZY trying to reconcile it with my beloved "OT", for example).

(just as : If I took the "TFA" seriously, it would drive me mental -- it would drive me CRAZY trying to reconcile it with my beloved "OT"). :P

BUT

because I consider ALL disney star wars to be "EU" star wars ..   this gives me the freedom to enjoy it!  LOL







end of day : if I considered "TFA" in same context as GL's movies , then it would have a LOT TO LIVE UP TO!! 

(and it would fail, as a star wars movie).

but if I consider TFA to be simply just another "EU adventure" , then it's MUCH better than yuzzan vong!! 

(and it succeeds, as "entertainment")

-===-

end of day: I believe that ALL of the new Disney Star Wars stuff , WILL require its own context, in order for us old first-generation-fans to enjoy it.

this means : we cannot call it "EU" (because everyone hates EU) ; we cannot call it "canon" (because these are NOT "[stories by george]" anymore -- there's no such thing anymore); we must find a NEW way of looking at this.



---> call it "Nu EU" (if you like) ; call it "New Canon" (if you want) ; in the end, it doesn't matter what you call it, as long as you recognize the difference:

there IS a marked difference between "Disney Star Wars" and GL's "Star Wars".  (therefore)..

it is a mistake to pretend there is only ONE canon ---  only ONE "context" , for enjoying Star Wars.




I have ALWAYS enjoyed the comic book version of star wars , in a DIFFERENT WAY than I enjoy the films.   

and we cannot deny that these new movies , NOW take place in the SAME UNIVERSE , as the comic books.   

           *shrug* 

the films and the comic books are NOW part of the same "continuity" --- they NOW enjoy, the EXACT SAME "context", as Each Other.

(((and quite frankly, I've ALWAYS enjoyed the comic books. LOL)))      *shrug* 

[TrypWyr]

it is a mistake to pretend there is only ONE canon ---  only ONE "context" , for enjoying Star Wars.

Haha, I can accept that! :D

[anakin2000]

wrong thread for me to make this argument, but since it was presented, anakin is the chosen one. its stated multiple times throughout the prequels and is completed at the end of ROTJ. Lucas himself said the story of Star Wars was about Anakin Skywalker. And frankly, opinion of the creator and actual films take precedent over a TV show that airs on Disney XD

"A prophecy... that misread could have been."

I guess you could take the word of the handful of Jedi that mention the Chosen One, and not accept Yoda's opinion that they may be wrong in some way. You could interpret it that since Vader destroyed the Emperor (and himself), he destroyed the Sith and brought balance to the force.

You could also interpret it that Luke really was the Chosen One as Kanomi states above. If the Sith still exist (Snoke and Ren?), then perhaps the restoration of balance has still to occur?

In the end, the story is still being written and all theories are viable and could be true, "from a certain point of view." ;)

And a side note, I understand how people would want to discount "a TV show that airs on Disney XD". However, if the creators say it's canon and it's written under the same overall direction and supervision as the films, I don't think there's much choice in the matter...

jj abrams has stated on numerous occasions that snoke and ren aren't sith

[Psab Keel]

There is a lot of talk of the "will of the Force".  What does that even mean?  That would imply intention, which could imply sentience, which would imply a god of some kind?  It's the only logical explanation, which kind of goes against the entire idea of what the Force is, right?  I mean, Lucas has always disagreed with the idea of the Force being god.

I'm all for them further exploring the Force as a concept or even thinking of it differently than any of the previous films have, but if the "will of the Force" shows intention and that intention is to not have a Sith Order or a Jedi Order, then why in the galaxy far, far away would it even make it's presence known to anyone?  Especially when it could easily be manipulated by these two factions who literally have control over it?

"The Force is an energy field created by all living things." -Ben Kenobi

"Life creates it.  Makes it grow."  -Yoda

Those two ideas suggest that it's a power that is impersonal and WITHOUT intention.  The idea of a will negates that concept and suggests that it is a personified deity with preferences.

The other thing is that all of the necessary information needs to be told IN the movies.  You can have all of the supplemental material you want but if the movie is missing crucial information, then it's a bad movie.  Period.  The story needs to be self contained.  If I have to watch a TV show, read a comic book, play a video game, or read a novel to understand what happened in the movie, then it's a bad movie.  Can those multimedia sources enhance a movie?  Sure.  It just can't rely on those other sources to fill in the gaps in the script.

[Obi_1]

I'm  not sure if it's anything to go by, but the German Title is definitively in plural. So there supposed to be many last Jedi.

[Scruffy Nerf Herder]

Is it just me or anyone else annoyed when folks use "Disney" as their excuse for how they feel about any of the new content?

Disney does not make Star Wars.  Lucasfilm does...and as such anything made by Lucasfilm IS canon.