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Author Topic: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi Discussion (Spoiler Alerts)  (Read 16240 times)

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Offline Jediseth

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Re: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi Discussion (Spoiler Alerts)
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2017, 11:16:23 AM »
I can not tell you how disappointed I was after seeing this movie. They had a few good scenes and that’s it.  I just can’t believe how it was handled. It’s shameful!

Offline Obi_1

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Re: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi Discussion (Spoiler Alerts)
« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2017, 12:11:39 AM »
Rey's parents left her at the side of the Grand Canyon and drove away...   

--> WHEN do the JOE DIRT gifs start!? 

I am disappointed in the internet as a whole..  I can't be the only one who noticed :P

Rey shares her ORIGIN STORY with "JOE DIRT" .  ROFL!!

(and somebody said this move was supposed to be "original".   :laugh:   pffft!)

I would like to point out that only Ben told Rey who her parents were and he intentionally tried to make her weaker and open her up for further influencing. So for me what he told her is made up by himself, he has no way of knowing. Remember she asked about her parents in the Dark Cave too, and all she got was seeing herself. It reminds me of Anakin, having no father. Could it be that Rey simply does not have parents at all? That she is a prue Force being?

Offline minorhero

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Re: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi Discussion (Spoiler Alerts)
« Reply #32 on: December 21, 2017, 08:17:42 AM »
I think Ray really did come from a no name family. I thought she would be Ren's sister but for that to be true both Han and Leia would have to either not recognize their own daughter or decide not to tell her, neither makes sense given what we know of these characters. Leia can fly in space. So she should be enough of a force used to recognize her own daughter. It also fits with the end with the nameless stable boy, the idea that force users can be anybody and not just Skywalker blood line etc.

However.... This all misses the main point. At the end when Luke evaporated, all that was left was his robe. A robe that opens in the front with no belt..... So was Luke naked under that thing???? Cause it kinda looks like he did a massive force projection across light-years, saves the resistance, fights a duel all while not wearing any underwear..

Offline Dark Lord 4

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Re: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi Discussion (Spoiler Alerts)
« Reply #33 on: December 21, 2017, 12:20:06 PM »
I saw it opening night in the Lincoln Square Imax in NYC as I do with every SW movie. We had about 30 people there totally. My family and I aren't the toughest SW critics. We even liked alot of what was in the prequils as much as there was much to be desired. My family watched "The Force Awakens" the night before. We were so excited. We were so excited to see many things after watching TFA once again. Namely

- The interaction between Luke and Ray after she confronted him.
- To see Luke Skywalker in action once again.
- To see Luke with Leia again.
- To find out what Ray's background is.
- To learn the background of Snoke. Is he a sith? Something else?
- To learn about the Knights of Ren and the background of Kylo Ren.

Now after seeing the movie, my Wife and I both felt that it was a decent movie but by no means were we blown away. After considering the above, the movie fell flat on every one of the items I mentioned. In addition, there were two different things about the movie that were completely absurd and a huge stretch for the entire SW saga. Both of those things to me took away from it. After digesting the movie for a few days I can definitely say this is the most disappointed I ever was in a SW movie. It was not a terrible movie but I think that RJ chose to go in a completely different direction and unfortunately it is about the least interesting direction I could think of. The worst part is that it leaves JJ Abrams in a very difficult position for Ep 9. Unlike all the items above, the next movie will not carry anything like it into the next movie. I was so excited to see Last Jedi after seeing TFA. I have no where near the same level of excitement for Ep 9 and that is a real shame. 

Offline djobitwan7

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Re: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi Discussion (Spoiler Alerts)
« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2017, 07:01:54 PM »
I have to say I did like this movie compared to TFA. I am not going to rehash what I think is wrong with the movie, but I did have some old / new questions that no one seemed to mention or notice.

1. Ackbar was killed with the crew that was with Leia. Ackbar was kind of old in ROTJ. He lived that long? I'm not sure about his species life expectancy, but they didn't seem particularly long compared to humans. I didn't realize he was even in the movie visually, except I remember hearing his name or am I wrong?

2. Everyone always talks about Poe being the best pilot. He is, for the generation that he's in. So this 2nd question is....how did Poe get this way? How was he trained? I would like to say he was trained by none other than Wedge Antilles himself. The man who lived through the original trilogy. What happened to this legendary pilot?

3. I realize that Luke saw ghost spirits, but why Yoda and not Ben? It was fun seeing Yoda though.

4. OK just one question that everyone is talking about. Snoke. We all know there were Sith Lords besides the rule of two we were used to seeing, but Snoke obviously had to be bad-xxx because he got the new government as powerful, if not more so than even Palpatine. Maybe Kylo needed Ray for the distraction in order to beat him, but it could have been better. It reminded me of the Mortal Kombat movie where Johnny Cage needed to beat Goro. He couldn't beat him in a straight-up fight, but when he ran away......he fought him unorthodox and with surprise. Both the more powerful went out like punks.

Offline Obi_1

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Re: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi Discussion (Spoiler Alerts)
« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2017, 02:32:23 AM »

- To learn about the Knights of Ren and the background of Kylo Ren.

 

This is an interesting point indeed. We still do not know who were these Knight, obviously Jedi in training who banded up with Ben after we put Luke's Jedi Temple to the torch (so middle-age like....). What became of them? Were they all murdered by Ben and Snoke due to the rule of two? I guess the director simply forgot this lot line.

Offline bombarta

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Re: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi Discussion (Spoiler Alerts)
« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2017, 03:45:10 AM »
The film was awful.
Awful plot
Awful acting
Awful new character
SW is turning into Disney princesses universe, making all the guys weak and stupid, while promoting all the females as strong and smart. This is just about getting more females interested, which =more cash.
If you stop looking through rose tinted SW glasses and look with a critical eye you'll realise it too.
The fact Luke didn't even get a real face to face with his sister or a decent saber fight before passing tells you everything. Disney is just burning everything SW down to remold in the big D image.
All that will be left is a whiney emo and Mulan at the end.
I don't know, i gotta bad feeling about this!
       

Offline Habbena

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Re: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi Discussion (Spoiler Alerts)
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2017, 10:28:29 AM »
The film was awful.
Awful plot
Awful acting
Awful new character
SW is turning into Disney princesses universe, making all the guys weak and stupid, while promoting all the females as strong and smart. This is just about getting more females interested, which =more cash.
If you stop looking through rose tinted SW glasses and look with a critical eye you'll realise it too.
The fact Luke didn't even get a real face to face with his sister or a decent saber fight before passing tells you everything. Disney is just burning everything SW down to remold in the big D image.
All that will be left is a whiney emo and Mulan at the end.

It pains me to say that the sequel trilogy is now in ashes.  And I loved The Force Awakens.  I was interested in seeing Rey and Ren develop and antagonist and protagonist.  But they have destroyed that for me in Episode 8.  There is a slight possibility that JJ can salvage, but that would entail them bringing Luke back and giving him a very satisfying end and forming a solid relationship with Rey.  Something I don't think they are going to do.  I'll make my own canon from what I may like from the Legends EU.  Hopefully there are two more good spinoffs in between Episodes 3 and 4, so that can be my 9 movie narrative arc.  Rogue One, Kenobi movie, and Vader movie, maybe?

Offline Sincenatic

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Re: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi Discussion (Spoiler Alerts)
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2017, 01:25:01 PM »
The film was awful.
Awful plot
Awful acting
Awful new character
SW is turning into Disney princesses universe, making all the guys weak and stupid, while promoting all the females as strong and smart. This is just about getting more females interested, which =more cash.
If you stop looking through rose tinted SW glasses and look with a critical eye you'll realise it too.
The fact Luke didn't even get a real face to face with his sister or a decent saber fight before passing tells you everything. Disney is just burning everything SW down to remold in the big D image.
All that will be left is a whiney emo and Mulan at the end.

There are some heavy critiques of Disney here, and I must say I disagree. If Disney promotes strong female leading characters I have to say it is great. Disney bought Marvel in 2010 and we have seen a long list of movies with male heroes. The first movie within the label Marvel that has a female main figure is Captain Marvel, which is scheduled for 2019. The message that Disney provides for the youngest audience should, of course, also be present when the children grows a little bit older. In Star Wars, we have seen strong female characters before, so Rey fits perfectly fine in that line. I also disagree that the male characters are given a weak and stupid image. I certainly enjoyed seeing the movie, but, yet again...”many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view”.

Offline SharkyMcShark

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Re: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi Discussion (Spoiler Alerts)
« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2017, 01:41:33 PM »
The fact that Luke managed to save literally the entire Resistance without fighting is incredibly in keeping with the established character for him. Ultimately, not giving in to anger and rushing to conflict is what allowed him to turn his father back to the light and defeat the Sith at the end of ROTJ.

Saying he should have turned up with his saber to face down Kylo is missing the point.

The way it was done was a very good fit for three reasons

1. It was an arc of redemption for Luke. Rushing head on to conflict is how he contributed to the rise of Kylo. It's been an ongoing character flaw for Luke for the whole of the saga that he's been in. Not rushing head on to conflict here allowed him to save the Resistance.
2. It ties back to the end of Return of the Jedi for the above reasons.
3. It added a very spiritual nature to his end. We see very directly that he's opened himself up to the Force again in precisely the way Yoda had described it to him 30 years before.

“You will know when you are calm, at peace. Passive. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.”



As an aside, I found that TLJ riffed much heavier off ROTJ than ESB.

Offline bombarta

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Re: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi Discussion (Spoiler Alerts)
« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2017, 01:45:13 PM »
All I'm going to say is star wars fans have never been more devided, trekies must be laughing their butts off.
I like TFA even though it was a rehash of ANH and love rey and fin. And love that rey is strong and captain phasma is a no nonsense female too.
TLJ on the other we get lumbered with Rose who makes fin look dumb without even trying and saves him when he's about to sacrifice himself, I'd gladly keep Roses sister and sacrifice Rose.
Then there's rey taking on and knocking a jedi master down with virtually no training oh and then rescues them at the end too.
Then there's both leia and holden who make Po look weak in front of everyone 3 times total.
I'm all for strong Females my favourite is Lara Croft. Thing is there needs to be balance. TLJ just swung completely the other way. Which is just like most tv shows now.
I don't know, i gotta bad feeling about this!
       

Offline Habbena

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Re: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi Discussion (Spoiler Alerts)
« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2017, 02:53:25 PM »
The fact that Luke managed to save literally the entire Resistance without fighting is incredibly in keeping with the established character for him. Ultimately, not giving in to anger and rushing to conflict is what allowed him to turn his father back to the light and defeat the Sith at the end of ROTJ.

Saying he should have turned up with his saber to face down Kylo is missing the point.

The way it was done was a very good fit for three reasons

1. It was an arc of redemption for Luke. Rushing head on to conflict is how he contributed to the rise of Kylo. It's been an ongoing character flaw for Luke for the whole of the saga that he's been in. Not rushing head on to conflict here allowed him to save the Resistance.
2. It ties back to the end of Return of the Jedi for the above reasons.
3. It added a very spiritual nature to his end. We see very directly that he's opened himself up to the Force again in precisely the way Yoda had described it to him 30 years before.

“You will know when you are calm, at peace. Passive. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.”



As an aside, I found that TLJ riffed much heavier off ROTJ than ESB.

There are people who are fine with Luke's arc, and I am happy they like it.   My personal major issues are two fold:  Luke and Rey needed to eventually bond for narrative reasons (my belief).  And it never happened.  In fact, my feeling is that Luke was a borderline jerk to Rey - an orphan who is looking for help and belonging.  If you have read about the cut scenes, it could have been worse.   There is a decent story in there and I believe it could have been salvaged with a few changes, which leads to my second problem:  No longing for Episode IX.  This episode failed in one of the most important goals of a middle chapter:  leave us longing for answers and wanting to see the adventure continue.  I (among many people I personally know both casual and hard core fans) have the least desire for a next chapter EVER in the saga.  Given the next chapter is theoretically supposed to bring a climax to the Skywalker sage, this is inexcusable. 

This could have been salvaged quite easily, from a screenwriting perspective. 

Have the Battle of Crait interwoven with the Ren/Rey/Kylo Dynamic.  All things could have narratively played out the same, with the following exceptions:

End the movie with the following four scenes:

1)  After Luke has appeared to save the Resistance, Leia moves the rocks, gives a passioned speech to continue the fight, and passes the fight on to those in their midst and disappears.  The rest leave on the Falcon.

2)  Kylo and Rey have defeated the Praetorian guard and Kylo wants Rey to join him to begin a new movement, not Jedi, Sith, Resistance, or First Order that will bring balance and peace offers his hand.

3)  Final scene is Luke raising his X Wing out of the water and final shot is Luke flying off the island out of exile.  Iris Out.  Credits

OK, now I want to see Episode 9!  Instead we are left with ashes of a story that could have been.  All of course in my opinion of things.  For those who like where the story is going, I am happy for you.  I just am not. 


Offline Psab Keel

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Re: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi Discussion (Spoiler Alerts)
« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2017, 08:32:17 PM »
The Last Jedi was terrible.  The tone was off the whole movie.  Either it's a lighthearted space adventure or it's a dark gritty space adventure.

Comedic elements are intrinsically built into the Star Wars films but every dramatic scene was undercut with a nonsensical joke.  So again, which is it?  A comedy or a drama with some light moments?

This new trilogy is about the new characters and the original cast was supposed to be the supporting cast to pass the torch on to the new generation of freedom fighters.  Is it really necessary to kill them ALL off?  I mean if you're going to kill off Luke, at least do it in a much more dignified way. 

I'm all for them trying new things but to subvert every expectation just for it's own sake and not in service to the story is bad writing!  Star Wars follows a certain formula and while you can change certain things, if you stray too far off the beaten path, it just falls apart.

This has some NSFW language, but this guy pretty much nails most of my major gripes with the movie:

Roz Rants Against 'The Last Jedi' | STAR WARS - YouTube

There is no way to clean this mess up in Episode 9 and honestly I kind of don't care what they do with the story at this point.  What's the point?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 08:49:14 PM by Psab Keel »

Offline Wookiee Man

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Re: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi Discussion (Spoiler Alerts)
« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2017, 11:20:21 PM »
Only Rogue One has given me hope thinking Star Wars films we’re going to return to its glory but Disney has let me down. 
The only great thing about the movie was Chewbacca looking like Chewbacca and acting like Chewbacca!!  I was hoping the Millennium falcon would rush in and destroy the New Order Snoke ship but I guess the lightspeed scene had to do.  They could have at least show a more graphic space battle. 
Okay I never read any Star Wars book only a fan of movies only but when did Star Wars ships need fuel.  I only seen the smaller ships fuel up before battles but the space ship chase was boring.  Kinda stupid
Did all the first order star destroyer run out of fuel too?  Where were the star destroyers durning the chase?
Ray is to powerful  &  Kylo REN is to weak!
First Order so weak very disappointing :sad: 
Just hurry up & end this trilogy please :cry:

Oh what’s the point of having captain Phasma she’s horrible gosh  :rolleyes:

Offline Cad-Bayne

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Re: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi Discussion (Spoiler Alerts)
« Reply #44 on: December 23, 2017, 03:37:19 AM »
I haven’t read every single posting on this thread , but I found it very odd why Luke chose to Force Project himself with his old Lightsaber and not his Green ROTJ hilt.  I was so excited to see him ignite it again but this time in full combat or just good showmanship. Kylo didn’t  even question that the sabers back in Luke’s possession, being it was destroyed earlier between he and Rey playing tug of war. Uuuggghhhhhh
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 03:39:49 AM by Cad-Bayne »



 

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