QUAD-rebels!

[Alex Gordon]

the key is right here.  regardless of 4 up or 6 up, if you can make it fit this with the optics, your market will increase dramatically.  I realize asking the 6 up to fit this is a bit much, but most people aren't going to have either the voltage to power such a setup or the capacity to sustain it for very long (depending on the wiring setup). 

this is the heatsink that most custom sabers (not replicas) use.  At least as far as I know, mhs is the most popular form of custom saber.  I could be wrong though. 

http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/MHS-new-style-Heat-Sink-V2-P763.aspx

there aren't really any specs on them, and I don't have one on hand to do any measuring, but I'd suggest ordering one for R/D purposes.  most people that would buy these are people that do custom sabers (replica ones tend to have even smaller heatsinks with a few exceptions) and it would have to fit this heatsink or even a custom, but readily available, heatsink that would fit the same place that this one does. 

[Ari-Jaq Xulden]

The interior of the new MHS heat sinks can accommodate a 23mm lens and the only modification would be to drill the top module hole larger to allow full use of the lens. If the 25mm could be sanded down to OD of 23 mm it would fine Quip. However that is the limit without custom machining. 25mm is also the OD of the blades we use, so wanting the light to shine inside and not necessary right to the edge, in that sense 23mm would be a better limit.

I have an idea for a lens. I will use the quads for an example. Start with the leds on an mcpcb, next have a reflector encompass all four and within the center of the reflector have a cross (for 6 would be star ) shaped mirrored walls separating each led. Followed by a primary optic atop both the reflector and walls to create a single dome that encompasses the 4 (or 6) dies under 1, then a single secondary optic to narrow the beam. This will solve color mixing as well. This would have to be done in about 14mm height as well as 23mm OD to meet our needs. Heat isn't much of an issue for us as our entire hilt is the heatsink.

[Alex Gordon]

The interior of the new MHS heat sinks can accommodate a 23mm lens and the only modification would be to drill the top module hole larger to allow full use of the lens. If the 25mm could be sanded down to OD of 23 mm it would fine Quip. However that is the limit without custom machining. 25mm is also the OD of the blades we use, so wanting the light to shine inside and not necessary right to the edge, in that sense 23mm would be a better limit.

I have an idea for a lens. I will use the quads for an example. Start with the leds on an mcpcb, next have a reflector encompass all four and within the center of the reflector have a cross (for 6 would be star ) shaped mirrored walls separating each led. Followed by a primary optic atop both the reflector and walls to create a single dome that encompasses the 4 (or 6) dies under 1, then a single secondary optic to narrow the beam. This will solve color mixing as well. This would have to be done in about 14mm height as well as 23mm OD to meet our needs. Heat isn't much of an issue for us as our entire hilt is the heatsink.

that's a pretty big modification.  I don't know many people with drill presses that can fit 23mm bits and a 23mm bit on a 5/8" shank (or whatever is equivalent in metric) isn't cheap.  Having said that, if you drill it out all the way to 23mm, nothing will hold the optics in place.  it would really only be able to be taken to 21mm to allow some room for holding the optics.  I think 22mm would be pushing it, but I wouldn't be able to say for sure.  never tried it before.   

[Quip]

The interior of the new MHS heat sinks can accommodate a 23mm lens and the only modification would be to drill the top module hole larger to allow full use of the lens. If the 25mm could be sanded down to OD of 23 mm it would fine Quip. However that is the limit without custom machining. 25mm is also the OD of the blades we use, so wanting the light to shine inside and not necessary right to the edge, in that sense 23mm would be a better limit.

I have an idea for a lens. I will use the quads for an example. Start with the leds on an mcpcb, next have a reflector encompass all four and within the center of the reflector have a cross (for 6 would be star ) shaped mirrored walls separating each led. Followed by a primary optic atop both the reflector and walls to create a single dome that encompasses the 4 (or 6) dies under 1, then a single secondary optic to narrow the beam. This will solve color mixing as well. This would have to be done in about 14mm height as well as 23mm OD to meet our needs. Heat isn't much of an issue for us as our entire hilt is the heatsink.

Looking at it, it may well be possible to grind the 25mm quad lens down to 23mm. Also, it looks like there might be enough room on the base to knock it down to 23 as well. Your saying that would fit on the heatsink used with the MHS ?

Also, would the creator of the MHS be open to designing a larger heatsink, in the case that grinding it down doesn't work ? I'm sure it's not a common request, but from the looks of it the system is pretty open to adjustment... Great info tho guys, it's very helpful !

[Ari-Jaq Xulden]

that's a pretty big modification.  I don't know many people with drill presses that can fit 23mm bits and a 23mm bit on a 5/8" shank (or whatever is equivalent in metric) isn't cheap.  Having said that, if you drill it out all the way to 23mm, nothing will hold the optics in place.  it would really only be able to be taken to 21mm to allow some room for holding the optics.  I think 22mm would be pushing it, but I wouldn't be able to say for sure.  never tried it before.  

Your assuming that this modification would have to be done by each individual. I'm sure if all this comes to pass, not only would Tim offer this as a affordable service, but he just may add these Leds to the lineup and have heatsinks or blade holders retrofitted specifically for them. I have done several 23 mm lenses, so I know it is possible.

@ Quip. Yes to the 23mm and Yes there is a little more room to do a 25mm, as to whether he would be open to the idea, I suggest you ask him yourself. Tim at the TCSS is a super nice guy. I have met him in person. I'm sure if you guys can do all you can for us to further our hobby, he will be magnanimous in that sense as well. Its in his best interest after all. http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/ContactUs.aspx

[Onli-Won Kanomi]

Quip TCSS changed the MHS bladeholders from an older style to a new style a year or so ago and has just recently added a second version of new style heatsink with 6 wiring holes for the 10W LEDEngins and has also begun modifying all the MHS pommels to accomodate new speaker mounting options which all shows that Tim @ TCSS is certainly not adverse to changing the MHS system if it increases possibilities for his customers. A lot of us have had him do custom MHS work for us and we can tell you he is a great guy to work with and he has always been progressive minded about moving our hobby forward so if you consult with him on how to make the new 4-up and possibly 6-ups work better with the MHS he may well be able to work with you on that if its technically feasible as Ari Jaq suggests.

As for Alex Gordon's concern about "nothing will hold the optic in place" if parts are modified to 23mm I would assume from looking at the pic of the Khatod quad rebel optics no optic holder is necessary because we'd glue the optics legs directly to the base with clear RTV silicone? That should hold it in place eh?

The new Cool Bases sound interesting...as mentioned most of our sabers are designed so that effectively we use the entire hilt as a secondary heat sink thus any improvement in the star bases thermal conductivity that would allow it to transfer heat better to the internal heatsink and thence to the hilt would be good...especially with 4 ups or more methinks.

Regarding thermal management with 6 ups specfically yes we recognize heat would become an issue esp with a 20mm base footprint and would likely require active cooling. We've had plenty of discussion over the last few years that increasing brightness of our sabers in the future would probably require active cooling and a few [notably Sunrider] have actually done so [mostly in regards to SSR-90 Luminus Phlatlights] and have found that small cooling fans are available that we can work with...Yes it would be a significant change that would likely be first embraced by the 'pro' sabersmiths while working the kinks out before it would 'trickle down' to mainstream or noob level just as the 10W LEDEngins took a bit of time to go mainstream @ TCSS but we know that active cooling need is coming eventually...please don't let that discourage you on the 6 ups.

If active cooling is necessary to gain the brightness and other benefits of a 6-up configuration then that along with needs for improved battery solutions shouldn't be considered an obstacle but a challenge that would be the cost of progress to brighter sabers...progress is worth it imo.

Other than the need for fans or bigger/better batteries is a matter of how 6-ups could work with soundboards and/or LED drivers. This should not be an insurmountable challenge but needs consideration as well. In that regard you might want to contact Erv at Plecterlabs.com since he has designed what is generally considered the best as well as the most widely available high quality soundboard/LED drivers in our hobby; the Crystal Focus and Petit Crouton respectively as well as the new Crystal Shard. Erv is also interested in our hobby moving forward [and has been responsible for much of it] so I would think his insights could be useful to your efforts bringing new LED solutions forward to us.

Thank you again for those efforts. I'm glad to hear the 4 ups are in testing and look forward eagerly to their release. And the 6-ups when ready.

[Quip]

As for Alex Gordon's concern about "nothing will hold the optic in place" if parts are modified to 23mm I would assume from looking at the pic of the Khatod quad rebel optics no optic holder is necessary because we'd glue the optics legs directly to the base with clear RTV silicone? That should hold it in place eh?

Yes. We tried turning one down to 23mm and it still leaves more then enough of the leg to plug in, doesn't even reach the smaller plug part. We're considering offering this as an extra, just for you guys

Also, we're designing the quad to be 23mm, as opposed to 25. The design has been finalized, and I'll be uploading some info on it in a couple weeks.

Regarding thermal management with 6 ups specfically yes we recognize heat would become an issue esp with a 20mm base footprint and would likely require active cooling. We've had plenty of discussion over the last few years that increasing brightness of our sabers in the future would probably require active cooling and a few [notably Sunrider] have actually done so [mostly in regards to SSR-90 Luminus Phlatlights] and have found that small cooling fans are available that we can work with...Yes it would be a significant change that would likely be first embraced by the 'pro' sabersmiths while working the kinks out before it would 'trickle down' to mainstream or noob level just as the 10W LEDEngins took a bit of time to go mainstream @ TCSS but we know that active cooling need is coming eventually...please don't let that discourage you on the 6 ups.

Noted. I'd like to come up with a solution to cooling, but I get that it's pretty niche... Would be totally dependent on the specific circumstances surrounding the build, so it would be somewhat limiting to include a cooling solution. No, the attitude seems to be "we'll design it and qualify that it is what it is and anyone who wants to try and use it can run with it". But, one thing at a time...

Other than the need for fans or bigger/better batteries is a matter of how 6-ups could work with soundboards and/or LED drivers. This should not be an insurmountable challenge but needs consideration as well. In that regard you might want to contact Erv at Plecterlabs.com since he has designed what is generally considered the best as well as the most widely available high quality soundboard/LED drivers in our hobby; the Crystal Focus and Petit Crouton respectively as well as the new Crystal Shard. Erv is also interested in our hobby moving forward [and has been responsible for much of it] so I would think his insights could be useful to your efforts bringing new LED solutions forward to us.

Again, noted. Thanks for the tips, but, this audience as it were seems to be really quite helpful. The input from this forum is indispensable. I'll keep these names in mind tho, should we come to something we can't figure out.

But yea, I'll have some juicy info on the quads soon, I hope. Just a bit of a busy week around here, so when I have a little more time I'll put something together.

[Ari-Jaq Xulden]

We tried turning one down to 23mm and it still leaves more then enough of the leg to plug in, doesn't even reach the smaller plug part. We're considering offering this as an extra, just for you guys
Also, we're designing the quad to be 23mm, as opposed to 25. The design has been finalized, and I'll be uploading some info on it in a couple weeks.

That is great news, Thank you Quip. This will mean they will be readily useable upon release.

But yea, I'll have some juicy info on the quads soon, I hope. Just a bit of a busy week around here, so when I have a little more time I'll put something together.

We look forward to hearing from you. Again all our thanks.